California..Mexico/USA barrier wall

[StealthMode]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/02/19/border.fence.ap/index.html

I fully support this initiative. Im tired of my f**** tax money and california's policy towards illegal immigrants going in favor of THEM, and not American in this country.

I am aware of the enviornmental issues, which I feel are FAR less, and outweighed by economic, security, and law enforcement issues.

In regards to Homeland Security, I think it is absolutely necessary. Illegal aliens from Mexico walk across the border everyday. We are so concerned about Islamic extremists getting in through an airport or check point... when all they have to do is cut a slit in the middle of a rug, put it over there head and do the cha-cha across some desert (joking of course)

[stuntman]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/02/19/border.fence.ap/index.html

I fully support this initiative. Im tired of my f**** tax money and california's policy towards illegal immigrants going in favor of THEM, and not American in this country.

I am aware of the enviornmental issues, which I feel are FAR less, and outweighed by economic, security, and law enforcement issues.

In regards to Homeland Security, I think it is absolutely necessary. Illegal aliens from Mexico walk across the border everyday. We are so concerned about Islamic extremists getting in through an airport or check point... when all they have to do is cut a slit in the middle of a rug, put it over there head and do the cha-cha across some desert (joking of course)

I agree but if we (US)do this we will be again looked upon with scorn! This will go againts our basic "who we are"!
But something needs to be done and done fast.

[Russian Texan]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/02/19/border.fence.ap/index.html

I fully support this initiative. Im tired of my f**** tax money and california's policy towards illegal immigrants going in favor of THEM, and not American in this country.

I am aware of the enviornmental issues, which I feel are FAR less, and outweighed by economic, security, and law enforcement issues.

In regards to Homeland Security, I think it is absolutely necessary. Illegal aliens from Mexico walk across the border everyday. We are so concerned about Islamic extremists getting in through an airport or check point... when all they have to do is cut a slit in the middle of a rug, put it over there head and do the cha-cha across some desert (joking of course)

Would you like to mawn my lawn for $20 in a 110F heat?
How about cleaning bathrooms in movie theatres for $6.00?

Do you ever stay in hotels? If you do, then be prepared to back up your outrage with 20-30% increase in room cost.

We need mexicans, they are willing to do jobs that no one else does. They also happen to be extremely hardworking people, much more hardworking than some gringos that I know...

[Dennis G]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/West/02/19/border.fence.ap/index.html

I fully support this initiative. Im tired of my f**** tax money and california's policy towards illegal immigrants going in favor of THEM, and not American in this country.

I am aware of the enviornmental issues, which I feel are FAR less, and outweighed by economic, security, and law enforcement issues.

In regards to Homeland Security, I think it is absolutely necessary. Illegal aliens from Mexico walk across the border everyday. We are so concerned about Islamic extremists getting in through an airport or check point... when all they have to do is cut a slit in the middle of a rug, put it over there head and do the cha-cha across some desert (joking of course)

Would you like to mawn my lawn for $20 in a 110F heat?
How about cleaning bathrooms in movie theatres for $6.00?

Do you ever stay in hotels? If you do, then be prepared to back up your outrage with 20-30% increase in room cost.

We need mexicans, they are willing to do jobs that no one else does. They also happen to be extremely hardworking people, much more hardworking than some gringos that I know...

That takes jobs away from Americans I say close the ****ing border

[Fox2]

Would you like to mawn my lawn for $20 in a 110F heat?
How about cleaning bathrooms in movie theatres for $6.00?

Do you ever stay in hotels? If you do, then be prepared to back up your outrage with 20-30% increase in room cost.

We need mexicans, they are willing to do jobs that no one else does. They also happen to be extremely hardworking people, much more hardworking than some gringos that I know...

I don't think most Americans have problems with Mexicans (or any other nationality) wanting to come to America for the American dream.

What I do have a problem with is anyone coming over illegally. Because, like StealthMode said, if the Mexicans can do it, someone with motives other than prosperity and business can get over illegally just as easy.

The claim that keeping illegal aliens out of the country is going to somehow hurt us economically is a false and illogical.

They are termed illegal for a reason. Mexicans are indeed some of the hardest working people in the world. But if Pedro (to make use a fictitious example) wants to work hard and make money in America, then he can come over legally, and go through the very same paperwork EVERYONE ELSE DOES. Just because Mexico is next to us does not mean they are going to be treated any better than other immigrants.

And another thing, I really dislike the tone of your post, Russian Texan. It's like you see the Mexicans only as a source of cheap labor, or a lesser people.

I welcome immigration and new people. That's what this country was founded on. Like I said, if a Mexican wants to come to America to make a name for himself, or start a career, awesome! Let him do it through legitimate means. Otherwise, he will have to find another country to illegally cross into. He is not above the law.

I support this initiative to keep ILLEGAL immigrants out of the country.

[usa320]

i agree with the last post- i dont have any problem with Mexicans comming here to do some work and give their shot at the American dream, as long as they go through the appropriate channels... The ones that come over illegally though threaten homeland security, and should be dealt with.

[StealthMode]

To Russian Texan and Dennis G:

Russian Texan: They do lower costs with cheap labor, and make things cheaper for us, as well as take the low skilled jobs that are undesirable for workers and employees to pay minimum wage for.

Dennis G: And a comment on sending American jobs over seas (basically the same as the illegal immigrants coming in and taking low skilled labor), I have had the discusions and academic experience of realizing that this cheap labor does provide a POSITIVE asset to the American economy in the "big picture". A high school drop out in America is high skilled compared to more than half the globe. THese unskilled jobs are only taking away a very small percentage from what the average, even below average American citizens can accomplish in the work force.

Without a lengthy debate... I stand with Fox2
We need to have our immigrants go about the process legally of entering our country for the above stated reasons.

After that.. I have no problem with people that apply for goverment supported programs and government transfer payments.

Out country was founded on this process, and should continue. But in modern society, a need for documentation and structure is absoultely necessary.

We need the security fence because our country is slowly raped of its resources daily by non-existent American citizens.

I have a great source of knowlege, my mother works for a state agency who deals with money that goes to programs like welfare.. in her words, she is, "disgusted" at how our tax money is dumped upon whoever.

[Russian Texan]

Fox2, you have completely misinterpreted the tone of my post.

I have nothing but respect for mexican people except tatoo covered punk ass teenagers.

Shutting down border - no, Control - yes.

[Fox2]

Fox2, you have completely misinterpreted the tone of my post.

I have nothing but respect for mexican people except tatoo covered punk ass teenagers.

Shutting down border - no, Control - yes.

My apologies if that is truly the case.

[el borracho]

Gimme a break...separating yourself from the problem is not going to solve it. If you do build a wall at the California border why stop there? Extend it to Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas too. Why not put mines around Florida to stop the Cubans who float over in bathtubs? And what others are saying is right, most Mexican migrant workers don't take jobs from Americans, they fill positions that would otherwise be empty if they weren't there.

Another example: I lived in Washington state most of my life, in a town that was 30% (at least) hispanic. The agricultural industry of the whole area depends on them, and you can be damn sure that if they weren't there the economy would collapse...those people work for a mere few bucks an hour, because they might not be legal the ranchers and orchardists milk that for all that it's worth and pay them dirt cheap wages. If they were forced to hire Americans at the $7.25 minimum wage (i think thats what its up to now) they would definitely go under.

Face it, we depend on them. These people are concerned about the basic needs of survival for them and their families, not with undermining US security and performing terrorist attacks. Despite the figures, getting across the border isnt as easy as walking by yourself. I have heard stories from the immigrants themselves of some damn clever methods they used to come over here. Also, most immigrants cross only to get their foot in the door and eventually begin the legalization process (which could take years). Some of these people dont have that much time and do what they need to feed their kids. I can definitely say that if it came down to that, I would do the same thing.

I am not condoning or justifying some of their actions, nor do i respect the few of those that come to the US to exploit our resources, but it comes down to "do what you gotta do." Could we use more control? Hell yes...do we need to partition ourselves from them and lose their valuable assistance? No.

P.S. despite my screen name, I am not Hispanic.

[SeanAshi]

build a wall at the California border why stop there? Extend it to Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas too
There is a barrier up San Diego California, to Brownsville Texas, but a poor barrier at that.

[SeanAshi]

Let me tell ya about hell on Earth, Juarez Mexico. Myself and friends walking around, we get attacked by a mob of teens in daylight, they were grabbing for everything going for our pockets, there were 4 of us, 20 of them from ages 10-15, some had sticks, knifes throwing rocks, trying to take our wallets, cell phones, spitting on us, what did the Mexican Police do? NOTHING! worthless! we could have kicked the **** out of all them, but we didn't we just slaped them around, we didn't want to make the news "Americans beatup children in Juarez" Some who go into Jurez never come back, police have found mass graves on the Mexican side of the border a few years back.

[duck]

Well, the "War on Terror" label provides a reason for almost everything when in the hands of a skillful lobbyist. Will it be called the "Wall of Homeland Defence"? ;)

[hank]

I gotta go with el borracho - sounds good but it won't solve the problem. We need Mexico to grow its economy then we will see change.

hank

[SeanAshi]

Wall of Homeland Defence Its hard to be angry at people who want a better life, that is why alot of them cross the border illegaly, that border is like alot of others in the world, its there to define the the spot where to countries meet and to prevent people from cossing all though it does poorly at that.

We need Mexico to grow its economy then we will see change.
Mexico knows this, but its not that eazy, I vaction in Playa del Carma, which is near Cancoon, kinda expensive but nice place to go, and spend money.

[German_American]

I'm more concerned with the disease they bring. I heard that illegals bring in a lot of diseases. To me thats enough reason to stop the illegal immigration. If they come here legally, get all there shots and are diseaseless, welcome to America!

[hank]

I'm more concerned with the disease they bring. I heard that illegals bring in a lot of diseases. To me thats enough reason to stop the illegal immigration. If they come here legally, get all there shots and are diseaseless, welcome to America!

Which ones, I have not heard that.

hank

[German_American]

I just read somewhere that people from really poor places with little medical attention from places like China or other asian countries who come illegally have diseases not common in the United States. I heard of one scary theory that an illegal from an African country who sneeks over here with Ziare Ebola virus can unleash that here in the states. I'm not against legal immigration I just don't want to have virus and other diseases that are not here all of the sudden killing many Americans. I wish I still had that article so you can't take my word I have no proof. If you think logically a poor mexican comes from a village that has an epidemic of a disease sneeks over the border and gives it to a few Americans, then boom it spreads and now we have a new virus to deal with.

[el borracho]

I'm more concerned with the disease they bring. I heard that illegals bring in a lot of diseases. To me thats enough reason to stop the illegal immigration. If they come here legally, get all there shots and are diseaseless, welcome to America!

Simply not true, at least in Hispanics' case. Like I said, i come from a place where 1 out of 3 were Hispanic (the huge majority born in Mexico) and can say that they dont have any diseases that we dont already get a routine vaccine for anyway. What I mean is that we basically have the same illnesses here, and what they suffer from is usually a regional problem like from their water supply and whatnot. Perhaps an individual may carry something, but the population as a whole won't infect the rest of us.

Then again, whatever they have will definitely not be as bad as the smallpox that Columbus brought to them...

[hank]

el barracho, of course it is true. He heard it, get it, he heard it. Never mind what actually happened or if there is an ounce of fact, he heard it. :cantbeli: :D

hank

[SeanAshi]

Blame the Mexican government and not The United States, and the disease they bring in the narco disease. Yes America has a drug problem, Mexican and Colombian governments aren't helping us, they aren't doing enough.

[Fox2]

Like others have said, I have absolutely no problem with honest people wanting to make a better life.

The problem is, without control, sure, the illegal Mexican trying to make money is going to get in, and that's great and all. But guess who else could get in? Anyone that damned well wants to and is clever enough.

Whether you want to believe it or not, the US does have enemies who want to commit acts of terror within our borders. I don't care what you think of Bush or this "Global War on Terror" but no one can deny that there are people in this world that would like nothing more than to infiltrate the US, and commit another violent terrorist act.

If keeping those kind of people out of our country also unfortunately means keeping the hard working Mexicans out also, then I'm willing to accept that.

Someone looking for the American dream is something to be admired. But are you willing to let an illegal alien get some work at the expense of American lives? I mean, is cheap labor really worth the possibility of another terror attack?

And that's not right-wing propaganda, folks. Frankly, if you can't see that another terror attack is a possibility, then you are either misled, uninformed, or naive. We are vulnerable as long as we have no control of our borders.

Illegal immigration is illegal for a reason. If someone wants to live and work here, they can do it legally and we would be more than happy to accomodate. To say that controlling our borders would keep hard-working Mexicans from coming here, that is false. They can come here any time they want in legal ways. However, it would keep Mexicans from illegally coming here. And, more importantly, it would keep enemies of our country from coming here and starting trouble.

[German_American]

WOW holy crap being crucified by the libs. I read it and I said don't take my word I don't have proof. I said one was a theory too and that theory did not seem to crazy to me. Listn, you live in washington state that does not have the problem of illegal immigration like California, New Jersey and New York. In NJ atleast many illegals come to a town called New Brunswick and there are many cases of many sick illegals who are having a lot of tax payer money to make them better again. I dont want my tax money helping some guy who came here illegaly, I wouldnt mind as much if he were legal but I wish they could pay their own bill instead using tax payer money. I'm sorry if i offended your love for illegal immigration.

[Fox2]

EDIT: Nevermind.

:cantbeli: Stupid, stupid, me.

[hank]

German_American, bro, I am just backing you up. I mean you did hear it, right? That is all I'm saying. If el barracho is from mexico and knows people who come across the border then what the hell does he know right? I mean, you heard it and that is good enough for me.

Dude if you go to downtown Knoxville tonight and throw a hand grenade on Broadway you would kill 100 homeless people. Knoxville has more per capita homeless than most cities with 200,000 people b/c we have 2 huge and well-funded shelters. Homeless people have the highest percentage of Hep and if you want a study I will produce one. That is the kind of statement that I could back up. Homeless people have a higher percentage likelihood of having hepatitis b/c of the conditions in which they live.

"If you think logically a poor mexican comes from a village that has an epidemic of a disease sneeks over the border and gives it to a few Americans, then boom it spreads and now we have a new virus to deal with"

This is the kind of story that you can't prove and thus should not figure into the equation. What disease? Logically? What logic? Explain?

Love illegal immigration? Do I? How do you know? I disapprove of illegal immigration but I don't think a wall will do it. Love? Hate? Only thing I hate is ignorance and that quote from your previous post is plain IGNORANT. Do the logic on that.

Name one virus that is prevalent in Mexico that is not present here. Name just one.

hank

[Cael]

I live in California and it has been a problem. The town I live in is about 90% Mexicans. Yes mostly elligals. It's incredibly easy to get to and from the US through Mexico, a lot of my Mexican friends have done it when they were young, and a whole lot of their parents and up have done it. Easily, I might add.

I have NO problem with Mexicans at all. That's just plain stupid. There are people that I know that have come here fully Legal and still have worked the fields. They do get much more benefits and they do feel prouder about how it was that they came here.

As far as any disease coming here, hell I would know it that's for sure. And that isn't true, not in one that's noticable at the least. I'd like to see this fence up, but honestly I really wouldn't know if it would work. Unless if they truly fenced up all the borders than yeah sure there's going to be some noticable changes.

[hank]

Thanks Cael, be careful of the virus outbreaks, they will happen anytime now. ;)

hank

[Jack Mehoff]

The only jobs illegal immigrants take away from Americans are ****ty jobs that nobody want. The thing that worries me is I don't know what kind of people cross the border into U.S., I don't want a murderer immigrated here illegally because he is wanted in Mexico. What about terrorists?

[Cael]

Hank: Yeah I know. I almost don't want to go outside. Well besides being shot at I guess. ;)

[hank]

Jack's (somebody else made this point also) point is valid and a great reason to enforce the laws alreasy in place more stringently.

hank

[haze99]

:| Hey, just hire the former East German Border Guards and seal up the border like West/East Germany was. Those gents were good with border security. (I am for REAL!)

America must be the place to come too? I don't know of anyone packing their bags for Mozambique? Or Peru? Hey, you know of anyone who moved to Syria recently? I hear Bangladesh has some good job opportunities! Nah, one better, I think Somalia has some good property values! (provided the land is usable!?) Speak espanol? You could go to Belize, retirement may be pretty good?


By naming those countries, I do not speak lowly of them. Let's face reality, head on. And not act like we are in Oz! People are not dying to go anywhere else other than the USA!

[Cael]

huh? :|

I kinda don't understand what you're tring to say.

[hank]

"Hey, you know of anyone who moved to Syria recently?"

Didn't Saddam's sons try to go there? What is you point?

hank[/quote]

[German_American]

Hank, I never said mexicans are bringing viruss into this country. I said if an epidemic is in mexico and one can just slip across the border that is scary. I keep telling you I read it and did not hear it, I just don't have the article and like I said don't take my word I have no backup. Your smug ass keeps bringing up the fact I have no proof and I keep saying I don't. I said they are theorys. Why the hell are you bringing homeless people into this. I would like them to round up and put somewhere so they can infect other people too but thats besides the point. You dont have to act like that calm the hell down. I garuntee I hear from you about how I have no proof and Im so ignorant and im an asshole. I only used one example of Mexicans. Im saying for all illegal aliens esspecially from Africa where they have a plethra of viruss that the US has yet to experience. What makes Mexico immune to such diseases that Africa has. Mexico isnt in that much better shape then Africa so I see no reason how they can't get some of these diseases. I say you like illegal immigration because you defend it no matter what anyone says.

Sean

[hank]

So then your theory is that Africans are getting into the US through Mexico? Dude, your statement was just silly and I called you on it. We can still be friends. But I'm not going to sit here and let you post that nonsense without calling you out. I expect the same treatment.

The homeless comment was just an example. An example of the kind of statement that you CAN make and back up because it is based on empirical facts. Illegals don't get tested - they are illegal and thus largely undetected. The point is that whoever wrote what you read probably did not base anything on fact. The fact that you read it and did not question it is a smaller part of the larger problem. There are no studies of teh diseases carried by illegals because if we got them together to test them we would deport them. Get it. If you produce one then I'll back off and even apologize. Just becasue it is logical to you does not move it over into the realm of fact. It is still just an opinion - in this case an unfounded opinion.

I'm with you on the illegal immigrant thing. Keep them out, but don't label them diseased just because you don't want them here. That ain't cool unless you can back it up.

If you wanna be pissed, I understand. I will call you out everytime I see you psot that junk. That is a promise.

hank

[el borracho]

Listn, you live in washington state that does not have the problem of illegal immigration like California, New Jersey and New York.

Apparently you have never been to the great northwest. My figure of 30% is not based on the US census, it would probably show about 15% officially...but since I have eyes and can count I gave the figure of 1 out of 3. Basically the number of legals are counted, but there are obviously more. I also said that I lived in WA, I now live in California and see that the "problem" is not as bad where I live now. Based on what I have seen and have heard, some of the illegals that cross into California only use that as an entry point to get to Oregon, WA, Idaho, and so on...not all of them set up shop in east L.A.

Again, I don't love any illegal activity but I can say that without these people, legal or not, some of my friends and family would not have had them as customers, employees, and colleagues.

[German_American]

Exactly thats why I said dont listn to me because I dont have any facts to back it up. The article was on all illegals it did not say just mexicans. I said that mexicans may have diseases like the other illegals. Pleae understand I said they might, I never said that Mexicans are bringing viruses. Its not my fault you misinterpreted my statement. I dont want illegal chinese either because they might be carrying chicken flu or sars. I didn't say africans are comming through mexico I dont know how you came to that conclusion, you dont have to cross a river to come into this country illegally. Thats not a stupid statement though if the same people say terroist can come illegally why not illegals from other countries get in that way. The problem of illegals is so big people dont even realize it. I dont care if they cut my lawn for 20 bucks the amount of money we would save in taxes not having them here would make up for that. I dont get why my ancestors came here legally, learned the language and culture and these people cant. That really pisses me off. Please understand I had no facts and stated that so stop acting like I said I did.

[German_American]

el borracho, dont mean to offend you but its a completly different story on the east cost man. Im sorry the problem is bad here. It might look all rosy and good over there but here they are sucking the money out of tax paying Americans. Im not speaking for the entire east cost but in central Jersey its bad. We are the train stop for illegals.

[hank]

"I'm more concerned with the disease they bring. I heard that illegals bring in a lot of diseases. To me thats enough reason to stop the illegal immigration. If they come here legally, get all there shots and are diseaseless, welcome to America!"

That is a quote. No misinterpretation "I hear that illegals bring in a lot of diseases". Followed up with:

I'll be watching. Misinterpretation . . .

hank

[German_American]

I said illegals hank, not mexicans! not all illegals are mexican

[German_American]

Anyway if you dont think they are sick when they get here why are they filling up our hospitals. They might not have ebola or ecoli but they still our wasting our money when legal americans can be getting that treatment.

[hank]

See now that is a good point. You can show that illegal immigrants without health insurance do waste a lot of healthcare resources. Empirical and thus justifiable. I will agree with you on that point. But diseased with virus that infect citizens - pure conjecture.

hank

[German_American]

I'm off to bed I dont know why I'm still arguing I have said I didn't have facts from the begining and read it some time ago. I also said I wasnt only talkin about mexicans many times I really have nothing else to say unless you wanna keep sayin I have no facts which I have acknowledged many times.

Sean

[German_American]

"See now that is a good point. You can show that illegal immigrants without health insurance do waste a lot of healthcare resources. Empirical and thus justifiable. I will agree with you on that point. But diseased with virus that infect citizens - pure conjecture. " We are making some headway. Just to tell you if some guy from the congo comes here infected with ebola and it starts spreading just think wow that german kid was right. Better be safe then sorry, I say you come here legal healthly and a heart to work your ass off and thats it.

[el borracho]

el borracho, dont mean to offend you but its a completly different story on the east cost man. Im sorry the problem is bad here. It might look all rosy and good over there but here they are sucking the money out of tax paying Americans. Im not speaking for the entire east cost but in central Jersey its bad. We are the train stop for illegals.

OK...it seems like that we experience different sides of the same issue. I have never been further east in the US than Texas, so could you tell me
1. Is there a predominant country or region where the illegals in your area come from? If so, where?

2. Could you give examples of the effects and the problems that they cause?

Judging from what I have personally seen in areas that I haved lived, most citizens don't like the illegal immigration problem, but many turn a blind eye because they (directly or indrectly) benefit from them.

And I guess that I dont understand how someone can illegally immigrate to the east coast...unless through Canada first, or in the cargo hold of some ship...or are you saying that is where they end up?

[hank]

GA - you do not get it - there is a difference between empirical and anecdotal. One you can prove and thus can be the reasonal basis for a rational opinion. The other is what ignorant people do to justify their fears and live in ognorance. Which is which? Do you know? This is getting old.

Basing opinions on anecdotal evidence is for amateurs and fools.

hank

[German_American]

Well the illegals on the east cost are from everywhere. Illegal eastern europeans, mexicans, asians. They surprisingly enough get to NJ through train and the train simply stops at an area where there is a big concentration of illegals. Like I stated before a city near my town, New Brunswick, has hospitals flooded with Illegals. In other cities like Newark, Elizibeth, and Camden illegals of all different culutres cause problems. For some reason they can pay a 3rd of what I would pay for college. They get a lot of benifits like that over here in NJ. I cant really steroytype because i see it being done by all of them. They pay people to take the drivers test for them and get a license and then the next day get in an accident because they are horrible drivers. They make our school system crap because we have to learn there languages because they refuse to learn english, even though they are illegal! They also just overstay there visas and make fake green cards. I see most of this with my own eyes and it sickens me. In my middle schoolI remember about 10 indian kids were deported and a house filled with 25 indians was raided because of dangerous living habits. I cant even begin with the crime. These people are ghost and commit crimes we cant track them down. THey sell drugs on street corners. the situation is horrible here.

[German_American]

love u 2 hank :lol:


p.s. I'm not gay im just sick of fighting with a fellow American, I hate that.

[hank]

I never siad you were gay, ignorant maybe, but not gay. Anecdotal v. Empirical, think about it. Maybe ask a grown up.

hank

[German_American]

oo I see you dont love me either. I dont know I just turned 18 and dont know that crap yet I dont have a college education, but im just sayn I rather stop illegals any way possible. I dont see any rational reason why we would let them keep comming like this. Its beyond my comprehension why Americans would support this.

[hank]

Ask a grown up about what I posted - I see now that you don't understand. Ignorance can be fixed. Opinions based on anecdital evidence are useless.

hank

[German_American]

NO hank lol i did not mean you thought i was gay i was just showing emotion that can be taken as homo******. Goodnight Hank, watch out ebola is everywhere! j/k my ignorant German brain is getting sum needed sleep.

[German_American]

I have a dictionary man i just dont care to type so much because it doesnt interest me.

[SeanAshi]

Couple of months back on FOX News, they were talking about alot of illegal immagrants (Mexican) are moving to the North in record numbers, Chicago, Detroit..

[basket of soft kittens]

The midwest was always a center for low level jobs i.e factory worker.

[kinghk]

That takes jobs away from Americans I say close the f*** border

America is a nation of immigrants. If it wasn't for liberal immigrant politics for the last hundred years, I guess you wouldnt have lived in the US either.

[hank]

kinghk - you've got to quit mentioneing things like this. It makes you liberal and shows you are thinking for yourself. We just can't have it in this nation. Don't believe me? Just as Pat, he'll tell you. ;)

hank

[wulfstan]

I used the Greyhound to get from LA to San Diego, and me and my girlfriend were the only white people on the bus. Being European tourists i had no idea what to expect, but i found myself thinking that this was not the America i had come to visit. Luckily the bus announcements were in English otherwise we would have had to learn Spanish asap!

Never forget that immigration has long lasting affects beyond those of getting people to serve petrol etc, it irreversibly affects the genetic make up countries - ask the native americans!

[el borracho]

I used the Greyhound to get from LA to San Diego, and me and my girlfriend were the only white people on the bus. Being European tourists i had no idea what to expect, but i found myself thinking that this was not the America i had come to visit. Luckily the bus announcements were in English otherwise we would have had to learn Spanish asap!

Never forget that immigration has long lasting affects beyond those of getting people to serve petrol etc, it irreversibly affects the genetic make up countries - ask the native americans!

Sorry that your trip disappointed you guv'. Yeah, most of us are having to learn Spanish to deal with the influx, but I think that second languages are a bigger issue on your end of the Atlantic. Not that its a bad thing, but you guys just have more of them to deal with.

As for the genetic make-up...in the mid 19th century the majority of Americans were of straight British stock, and they complained when the Irish, Germans, and Italians were flooding over and dilluting the genepool. Now that we've all got a little Irish, German, and Italian in us we are complaining about the Mexicans and others...who will it be at the end of the 21st century when all of the chicanos (half hispanic/half white american) complain about the new race that's invading their land?

[hank]

el barrasho, you are a wise man. This immigration crap is silly sometimes b/c immigration has been an issue since 1776 and we have dealt with it in so many ways that consistency is a huge problem. In the 1800's we had an open door policy to most immigrants - no papers come in get citizenship. Why stop that now? Maybe there are reasons, that is a point about which we can differ, but we should try to agree that immigration, legal or illegal, is not "bad" lest we have to label our ancestors "bad". We need to stop stigmatizing immigrants and deal with the root causes of our problems. Also, better enforcement of the current policies is always better than a new policy. We have no idea if current US immigration policies work b/c we have never enforced them as intended.

That is why the disease comment really pissed me off. Remember the plague, syphilus, typhus, etc.? Europeans, my ancestors included, spread this crap all over the world and nobody could stop us. Yet, now to try to use that as a defense seems illogical, especially when only anecdotal stories are used as the basis. The fact is that Americans are not suffering epidemics of anything, from anywhere.

hank

[Fox2]

el barrasho, you are a wise man. This immigration crap is silly sometimes b/c immigration has been an issue since 1776 and we have dealt with it in so many ways that consistency is a huge problem. In the 1800's we had an open door policy to most immigrants - no papers come in get citizenship. Why stop that now? Maybe there are reasons, that is a point about which we can differ, but we should try to agree that immigration, legal or illegal, is not "bad" lest we have to label our ancestors "bad". We need to stop stigmatizing immigrants and deal with the root causes of our problems. Also, better enforcement of the current policies is always better than a new policy. We have no idea if current US immigration policies work b/c we have never enforced them as intended.

That is why the disease comment really pissed me off. Remember the plague, syphilus, typhus, etc.? Europeans, my ancestors included, spread this crap all over the world and nobody could stop us. Yet, now to try to use that as a defense seems illogical, especially when only anecdotal stories are used as the basis. The fact is that Americans are not suffering epidemics of anything, from anywhere.

hank

Agreed about immigration. Immigration along with tourism is a vital part of our economy and culture. It's what makes us who we are. But ILLEGAL immigration is dangerous, I hope we can all agree. The dangers are not inherent in the illegal immigrants from Mexico, but the fact that others with less positive motives (read: terrorists) can get over just as easily.

I welcome immigration, not infiltration.

[hank]

Fox2, but at least you can see my point that the legal v illegal distinction is a matter of historical perspective, right? I mean if you look historically at immigration policy in the US you will find positions ranging from no immigration to unlimited immigration. So where you land on the spectrum at any given time is hard to say. That being said, I am a firm believer in enforcing the law we have. Whatever your policy opinion, enforcement of current laws seems like a great place to start. Then, after enforcement starts, you can adjust the law to meet your policy as needed and approved by policy makers, i.e. the Congress and President.

hank

[Fox2]

Fox2, but at least you can see my point that the legal v illegal distinction is a matter of historical perspective, right? I mean if you look historically at immigration policy in the US you will find positions ranging from no immigration to unlimited immigration. So where you land on the spectrum at any given time is hard to say. That being said, I am a firm believer in enforcing the law we have. Whatever your policy opinion, enforcement of current laws seems like a great place to start. Then, after enforcement starts, you can adjust the law to meet your policy as needed and approved by policy makers, i.e. the Congress and President.

hank

Yeah, I am in agreement there. The way we handle immigration has changed many times over. And now, since the events of 2001, they have changed yet again. My point is that at this current time, with so many who would wish us harm, it's hard to overlook the vulnerability on our southern border.

Whether that means a barrier of some kind or not, I cannot say. But there has to be a solution.

[hank]

Word.

hank

[FallenAngel]

The problem is that it's a cost versus benefit issue.

Immigrants (specifically Mexicans) provide a cheap source of unskilled labor. For corporations in the US that depend on this, it's a gold mine. They are vital to the economy in this way- that can not be disputed but at what cost?

I live in LA. Most of these Immigrants (both legal and illegal) do not speak english at all. What does that mean? Well, it means they can not advance, get better jobs and so forth. With the rising cost of living (especially in Sourthern California) these people end up pretty poor. Since they are immigrants, they are not eligible for many of the welfare benefits granted to citizens. Their children can not speak English. They overwhelm the school system and bring down the kids who CAN speak English. The LA Unified School District reported that nearly 80%- EIGHTY percent!!- could not pass a basic high school exit exam because the kids can NOT speak english past a 3rd or 4th grade level. But thanks the the ACLU, these kids are graduated anyway. They get the same low wage jobs their parents had and the cycle continues.

And what do you get when you have poor, uneducated people living close together? CRIME. Drugs, gangs, murders, rapes, kidnappings, you name it. In California, this is bad news because something like 45% of the people in this state are either immigrants or children of immigrants. 2/3 of these speak little of no English. That means nearly a THIRD of the state's populace can not speak English.

I also have no problem with someone comming here legally and naturalizing to this country (having a decent mastery of English is a citizenship requirement I think) but we have our hands full with the LEGAL immigrants. We don't need ILLEGAL immigrants adding to the problem.

I say take after the Israelis. Build a big ass wall and shoot anyone trying to get over/under it.

[Sixgun Symphony]

IMHO,

We should pull our troops out of Europe and bring 'em home. They would do far more for national security by guarding our border with Mexico.

[SOG]

legally im fine. illegally, we have a prob.

the amount of "over" traffic just from legal immigrants causing huge traffic jams daily, plus many more times the wear and tear on the roads equals more money dumped into the maintenance of them.

the petty crime from 150,000+ illegal immigrants per year or the two million+ in california alone and the time and money taken to deal with it

pollution of hundreds of thousands of vehicles not using local standards for emitions

accidents and cross border insurance claims' counter claims and problems

medicare and welfare abuse for those claiming thier child was born in usa and also welfare and medicare abuse by illegals themselves and amaizingly we give them benefits

not to mention illegals putting thier kids in public schools with valid US address rule being 10-20 (lol) people per house and being accepted

certain areas with so many non english speaking kids they have to hire espanol teachers to accompany them at financially struggling overpacked schools under repaired maned schools already

non english neighborhoods, stores, bill boards, advertising, money taken to be both english and spanish compatible and profiting from them both further pushing a language division

companies paying rows of illegals standing along streets under the table for thier own greed

importing poverty from which most never escape and result in breeding poverty

drug smuggling when "things dont work out" not to mention the crime and polulation decay and lives ruined and financial toll on society to deal with drugs

the time and money taken to not only guard the border but also deliver the immigrants back to areas which are closest to thier homes in mexico near our border so as not to inconvienence them or displace them so they can "try again" in the future, we have the home protection to thank for that.

OH and then theres the smuggling of anything and everything non drug related, babies, cross crime, weapons, people of any and all nationalities.

just off the top of my head. not like its a problem though......



I say take after the Israelis. Build a big ass wall and shoot anyone trying to get over/under it.

we almost did thanks to world war 2 and security concerns but that died down due to the use of cheap labor and the greed by americans especially for farming.