Did the Axis sell equiptment during WWII?

[Violence Of Action]

i had seen a picture yesterday of a pakistani soldier mounting a MG-42, then today someone posts pictures of a israeli museum with captured syrian PZ III's, so did the axis sell their equiptment to sattellite nations during the war? i was under the impression that the axis were short of high quality steel, feul, tanks, planes, men, pretty much everything needed to wage war, so how do all these third world nations get their weapons? the PZ III was being upgraded pretty much the whole war, small arms wise youd think they would have kept everything they produced too considering each german infantry squad had a heavy machine gun and several assault rifles, i figured that the allies just sold or gave these weapons away after they were captured....anyone know for sure?

[Hellfish]

They sold (or donated) tanks and weapons to Finland, Hungary and Romania during the war. After the war, some of the Allies (particularly the French) used captured German equipment to rebuild their armies. The French had a regiment or two of Panthers and some King Tigers until the late '40s or early '50s. They sent some of their captured Panzer IVs to Syria and Lebanon, which were French possesions/protectorates until 1946. That's probably how the Panzer IVs were used against Israel.

The Czechoslovakians inheireted a couple factories after the war and used a modified SdKfz 251 halftrack (the OT-810?) for a long time. The Swiss used Hetzers and probably MG42s and Me-109s for some years after the war.

I think small numbers of other weapons and vehicles made it to other places after the war as well. Africa and South America got some stuff, IIRC.

Hell - Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay, Uruguay and Mexico still use American M-8 Greyhounds, M4 Shermans and M5 Grant light tanks and M5 half tracks left over from the war.

[oldsoak]

Yes - the Nazis sold FW190 to Turkey plus military kit to Finland and others during the war There was always trade between axis states. After the war, captured equipment was either sold by the Allies or used to equip friendly forces.

Hellfish6 beat me to it !

[Violence Of Action]

hellfish have you seen any pics of the old US gear in use? i have seen M1 garands in use in haiti but never any old armor, i know i could do a google search but i had to ask

[Uninen]

Spain got (bought) Planes, Boats, Ships, Small Arms etc during the war from Germany.

But the Pakistani soldier propably doesnt have MG42, but rather MG3 (MG1, MG2 so on) which was (still is?) produced after the war.

[Impulse_t0]

i had seen a picture yesterday of a pakistani soldier mounting a MG-42, then today someone posts pictures of a israeli museum with captured syrian PZ III's, so did the axis sell their equiptment to sattellite nations during the war? i was under the impression that the axis were short of high quality steel, feul, tanks, planes, men, pretty much everything needed to wage war, so how do all these third world nations get their weapons? the PZ III was being upgraded pretty much the whole war, small arms wise youd think they would have kept everything they produced too considering each german infantry squad had a heavy machine gun and several assault rifles, i figured that the allies just sold or gave these weapons away after they were captured....anyone know for sure?

Actually that picture was of the MG-3 which is a popular weapon in the Pakistani military. Check yesterdays picture post again.

[Impulse_t0]

hellfish have you seen any pics of the old US gear in use? i have seen M1 garands in use in haiti but never any old armor, i know i could do a google search but i had to ask

The Israeli army uses Sherman tanks, even todayas ambulances and APC's.

[Hellfish]

Brazil


The American M3 Stuart Light Tank

20 of these were received in (out of a promised 65) 1942 and used to replace the armor then available in Brazil. Some 200 more were acquired between 1944 and 1945, both in the M3 and M3A1 versions (**). Due to its lightness and handiness, it was well liked by the army personnel, being nicknamed by them as "Perereca" (Frog), even considering the problems with its radial engine (***).

In the end of the 1970's it was becoming increasingly difficult to find spare parts for these tanks, so a decision was made to modernize part of the M3A1 series (****). A new turret was produced, with a 90 mm gun, the engine was replaced with a more powerful diesel unit (260 hp), locally made, new tracks were developed, as well electronics and aiming devices. The new car, know as CC MB1 (Combat Car, Brazilian Model nr. 1) or X1A, remained in service until the 1990's. A small batch of vehicles was modernized to the X1A1 standard, with a longer chassis (a supplementary set of boogie wheels added), this vehicle being the base for the CC MB2 (X1A2) series of light tanks, made from 1980 (this last vehicle being a completely new one, not a modernized Stuart).

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/brazil/Bra-x1a-a.jpg


he Shermans began to be phased out of service in the early 1960, replaced by North American M41 light tanks, as the Army could not obtain from the USA the MBTs it requested. Even so, lack of a sufficient number of M41 tanks forced the Army to keep the Shermans in service until the late 1970’s, even tough it was becoming increasingly difficult to find replacement parts for them by that date.

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/brazil/Bra-M3Sherman1964.jpg

More here: http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/brazil/brazil.html

Mexico


American M3A1 Stuart Light Tank

Purchased in 1943, this was a 4 man light tank. Mexican M3A1 and M5A1 light tanks, together with the M8 SPG and M8 Greyhounds served with the 12th cavalry regiment in Chiapas, some of these vehicles bore the brunt of the Zapatist-attack in 1994 until reinforcments arrived. The Mexican tanks in Chiapas where posted there not to counter any rebel movment but the refrain Guatamala from staging an invasion. Guatamala and Mexico have an longstanding frontier-dispute over the Chiapas territory.

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/Mexico/Mex-M3A1Stuart-RodolfoTorresVazquez.jpg

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/Mexico/Mex-M8-MarioAlejandroMartinezHernandez.jpg



Lots more about many, many countries here: http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/

Check out any South American country and you'll find lots of exotic stuff. Check out most any other country and you'll find where Axis stuff went to - I just found out Bulgaria had some Italian CV-33 tankettes, for example. The Dominican Republic had a lot of Swedish vehicles, which is interesting.

[Violence Of Action]

thanks, interesting pics

[JoaMei]

i had seen a picture yesterday of a pakistani soldier mounting a MG-42, then today someone posts pictures of a israeli museum with captured syrian PZ III's, so did the axis sell their equiptment to sattellite nations during the war? i was under the impression that the axis were short of high quality steel, feul, tanks, planes, men, pretty much everything needed to wage war, so how do all these third world nations get their weapons? the PZ III was being upgraded pretty much the whole war, small arms wise youd think they would have kept everything they produced too considering each german infantry squad had a heavy machine gun and several assault rifles, i figured that the allies just sold or gave these weapons away after they were captured....anyone know for sure?

Pakistan has a Production license for the MG-3, Iran and others too.
Actually steel was not so much a problem for the german army, much more fuel and other metals.

[kosse]

http://www.andreaslarka.net/sturmi.html Information and pics about the Finnish StuG's. There is also a lot of pictures and info about captured/bought t34's, Panzer IV's and other stuff on the main page.

[Ruledbyjames]

I read on Mp.net of a Sherman taking on an Abrams in OIF. Dont know if its true but I have seen pics of old Shermans knocking around the Iraqi desert.

[thunderw]

The ARVN recieved some old WW2 haversacks early on in the war, some U.S. troops even used them. The ARVN also got Thompsons and M1 carbines.
Will

[ElHombre]

i've seen old pics from 1948 showing israeli flying Me109s with a modified engine. lo, the irony.

[Hellfish]

I read on Mp.net of a Sherman taking on an Abrams in OIF. Dont know if its true but I have seen pics of old Shermans knocking around the Iraqi desert.

I asked about this amongst some professional types. The most likely story that was backed up with some second hand reports is that a USMC column was approaching an Iraqi Army base. The lead platoon identified tanks in it's thermal sights and engaged them. Turned out that the tanks were monuments outside of the Iraqi base heated up by the sunlight - among them an old Iraqi Sherman (Iraq recieved quite a number of them after WWII, along with other vehicles, and kept them in service for quite some time).

Apparently the Marine TC of the lead vehicle was heartbroken when he found out he killed an antique. rofl

[Kitsune]

Apparently the Marine TC of the lead vehicle was heartbroken when he found out he killed an antique.
I can understand that. It's a shame to see such an golden oldie destroyed.

[black templar]

During ww2 Germany sold japan 800 Mauser MG 151 cannons and Me 109E fighter. It was shipped to Japan in a submarine. Guns were fitted to Kawasaki Ki-61 early models.

[strumbird]

i've seen old pics from 1948 showing israeli flying Me109s with a modified engine. lo, the irony.

It's a Czech Avia S.199. It's a modified Bf-109G14 with a Jumo 211F instead of Daimler Benz 605 engine. It was nicknamed "mule" because of difficult handling during take off and landing.

[ClydeFrog]

i've seen old pics from 1948 showing israeli flying Me109s with a modified engine. lo, the irony.
That is just the tip of the iceberg: The IDF was largely equipped with German arms such as Mauser K98ks, MP40s and MG34s during the Israel-Arabs war of 1948. They remained in service for a long time, some even as late as the 1960s.

[Violence Of Action]

about the marine TC killing the sherman....i cant imagine what a 120mm round would do to an old piece like that, considering what the main gun round can do to a T-72 it must've ripped apart the sherman, ive always been the type that hates seeing the air force and army test footage of the old equipment being destroyed.....hate it

[Hellfish]

Well the Sherman wouldn't have ammo in it - the round (probably battlecarried HEAT) would have messed up the interior a bit and started a fire, but it likely wasn't catastrophic - unless the Iraqis did a really bad job of cleaning it out when the put it on display and oil/fuel in the engine ignited. The Sherman probably wasn't exactly museum quality anyways.

[Atlantic Friend]

i've seen old pics from 1948 showing israeli flying Me109s with a modified engine. lo, the irony.

Czechoslowakia and Spain produced Me-109 variants after WW2. The Czech version was sold to Israel.

[Kilgor]

Czechoslowakia and Spain produced Me-109 variants after WW2. The Czech version was sold to Israel.
\
Even the HE-111 too

The british battle of brit movie has heaps of those post WW2 aircraft used for the footage.

[Darth Vidar]

Here are some pictures of Israeli use of Czech/German ex-WWII weapons:

MG-34:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/image001.jpg

Mp-40:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/image012.jpg

Avia S199:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/gs199.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/mezek2c.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/DarthVidar101/3112.jpg

[ClydeFrog]

Well the 109 IS a beauty afterall... thx for pics.

[Para]

Most of the Spanish Air Force was German in origin and much of it took part in the Film called The Battle Of Britain.

[ClydeFrog]

Yeah but the Spanish 109s had the Hispano-Suiza motor iirc, those made the noses very ugly when compared to the original 109s.