c6/m60/m240 gunners [Archive]

chassem

01-10-2006, 05:34 PM

Depends what kinda of gear you have.

For the CF a Nuke bag is always the best way. The new small pack does that and the 2 large pounches that come with it will hold another belt or so.

The best bet is to have no more than 3-4 belts on you and another 2 per person in the weapons detachment. If need be have the sections caryy some too.

croberts038

01-10-2006, 06:10 PM

i guess i was just curious if anybody had any cool bags or anything they used. we used a bag from the c9 box and tied it to the bottom of the c6 and held a large teaser belt in it, worked not too bad.

got any pics of that swedish belt?

how do the g3's fasten those boxes, do they just clip right on?

2/1kiwi

01-10-2006, 06:13 PM

I used to carry as much as i can fit in a belt webbing with only 1 water bottle + 2 belts in my pack, same with the number 2, the rest of the ammo if there is any gets divided up amongst the rest of the section.

Dunno about other countries but most gunners dont like giving there ammo or equipment to other guys to carry

M240, GPMG

One Shot Tactical Supply

01-10-2006, 10:22 PM

http://www.oneshottactical.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=oneshot&Product_Code=CR-CR1P05&Category_Code=CR

:)

croberts038

01-11-2006, 01:00 AM

oooh that's purdy:)

2/1kiwi

01-11-2006, 01:16 AM

http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/4011/tagc6c9chestrig8wn.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
312$ bit of a rip innit?

Catch22

01-11-2006, 02:22 AM

Not to mention that chestrig ain't the best choice for the GPMG gunner. I know the TAG added "MOUT/vehicle" remark, but honestly- after dismounting or just when in need to hit the dirt this setup may just backfire.

TacoDelRio

01-11-2006, 02:52 AM

Works for some.

AG for 240's in the USA, and I've seen Australians with their GPMG's with bags on the side of the reciever. Why the hell don't we do that?

2/1kiwi

01-11-2006, 04:36 AM

Works for some.

AG for 240's in the USA, and I've seen Australians with their GPMG's with bags on the side of the reciever. Why the hell don't we do that?

they get in the way when you are patrolling same with the 50 round steel belt box you can get for the GPMG

TacoDelRio

01-11-2006, 06:01 AM

they get in the way when you are patrolling same with the 50 round steel belt box you can get for the GPMG

I would imagine, but in alot of climates, I think it might be better than carrying belts around your torso, or rolling it up in your pack and feeding from there.

gafkiwi

01-11-2006, 06:04 AM

http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/4011/tagc6c9chestrig8wn.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
312$ bit of a rip innit?

Yeah thats a bit steep for just a chest rig. You would need a fair bit of kit on your back just to counter act the weight of the rig with 2 belts in it, let alone the weight of the gun itself.

One Shot Tactical Supply

01-11-2006, 07:54 AM

It's in Canadian dollars :D

AIRBORNEJOCK

01-11-2006, 10:09 AM

Works for some.

AG for 240's in the USA, and I've seen Australians with their GPMG's with bags on the side of the reciever. Why the hell don't we do that?

the bags on the side of the reciever are improvised you get a webbing pouch and attach it with plati cuffs (cable ties) to the gpmg (m240) feed tray.i used to do that and cary 2 x 100 round belts in 2 utility poches on mw wbbing then have the rest arranged in the top of my daysack so when i started firing i could get down daysack off and feed the ammo directly from it.
i also in an advance to contact used to stick a big bit of link in the front of my smock for easy and fast access.

AIRBORNEJOCK

01-11-2006, 10:27 AM

as for that monstrosity of a chest rig you would need body armour for your arse with that thing.i wouldnt like to take cover with it on.

ogukuo72

01-11-2006, 10:32 AM

AIRBORNEJOCK

01-11-2006, 12:41 PM

There's simply no way of comfortably carrying GPMG ammo on your body. The best way is to carry it in cans or boxes by hand, or on a carrier rack on the back.

Draping ammunition all over the body ala Hollywood, or having it dangle out of the gun, is a good way of snagging on some vegetation, getting rounds pushed out of alignment, getting dirt and dust on the ammunition, or having the belts come loose and drop off.

not trying to be funny here but have you actually carried a gpmg before i would just like to know how many hands youve got as the last time i tried to carry 2 tins of ammo and a gpmg i needed at least 2 sets of arms.
plus a nato standard 200 round belt weighs 5.4 kg in a box it weighs 7.7kg it doesnt take mastermind to know if your carrying 600 link in boxes (that rattle) your carrying extra weight you dont need to.

gafkiwi

01-11-2006, 02:56 PM

When ever Ive carried the gun I've always gone with belt order, you can still take cover easily and don't look like the stay puff marshmellow man. At a cram you can get around a 100rd belt into one of our GP pouches maybe more into an LSW pouch, so thats up around 400rds in your webbing depending on what other kit you ditch, 15 to 20rd belt on the gun and at least another belt(250rds) in your pack. If your frontline issue is 1000rds(light role) your n.o.2 only has to carry just over 300rds. Until they come up with a good belt bag for the gun I'll only use a short belt, just gotta remember to start firing on a low rate until your n.o.2 can add to the belt. Obviously in an FUP you would stick something larger on.
End of the day a well trained, onto it n.o.2 is a million times better than any flash pouch, vest or belt bag. A good n.o.2 will call your fire on whilst keeping belt on the gun and keeping an ammo state whilst also maintaing comms and ensuring the kit is prepped and gunner is aware of the next barrel change, while looking for the guns next firing position whilst maintaing security for the gun team.

Michael RVR

01-11-2006, 07:52 PM

AIRBORNEJOCK

01-11-2006, 09:59 PM

Ususally i take a couple of rovers and 10000 rounds, so carrying it around isn't that much of an issue. :P

That said, it goes wherever it fits. Kicked around the idea of using chest webbing a while back and only have the belt order still.

You can actually carry two tins and a GPMG, but i wouldn't want to patrol with it like that. If you've got the cans put them in your (or someone elses no2 eh) pack ;)

has any brit here been to brecon on the mmg course because it seems to me like a lot of people are opening their mouth and letting their belly rumble.and evidently know nothing of using the gpmg on ops.
couple of rovers thats easy if your light infantry(sarchasm) and apparently you can move really close to the enemy in them?
10000 rounds-what you carrying ammo for an mmg section?no one denies you can carry 2 tins but when your carrying 800 maybe more the tins are nothing but dead weight which make you rattle like a tamborine.
and for the other bloke who goes on about changing barrels unless your on sf your not going to be changing a barrell are you?
sorry if this is abusive in any way but i hate people gobbing off about htings they know f**k all about.

611

me on a gpmg wmik after the battle of al majar al kabir

gafkiwi

01-11-2006, 10:50 PM

[QUOTE=AIRBORNEJOCK]...
and for the other bloke who goes on about changing barrels unless your on sf your not going to be changing a barrell are you?
sorry if this is abusive in any way but i hate people gobbing off about htings they know f**k all about.

Ok, So I take it you don't utilise or carry only a spare barrel in the light role then???
We carry 1 spare and change them when the situation allows every 250 rds or so although this doesnt always happen, and here I was thinking we did similar drills to our former colonial masters.
I do agree with you on the ammo tins though, they are a basta*d and bloody hurt when thrown at you, I used to bin them as I got bombed up. Some of our 7.62 though comes in little 250rd plastic boxes and I found these are good for jamming into your pack and alot easier to pull out of a pack than a loose belt, and they don't make F all noise.

TacoDelRio

01-12-2006, 04:12 AM

the bags on the side of the reciever are improvised you get a webbing pouch and attach it with plati cuffs (cable ties) to the gpmg (m240) feed tray.i used to do that and cary 2 x 100 round belts in 2 utility poches on mw wbbing then have the rest arranged in the top of my daysack so when i started firing i could get down daysack off and feed the ammo directly from it.
i also in an advance to contact used to stick a big bit of link in the front of my smock for easy and fast access.

Thanks for the info.
How long do the zip ties usually last with the vibration?

I'll hafta try that next time I see an GPMG which will probably be years down the road. Thanks for the info. Good idea with the extra belts atop your rucksack.

By the way, I have seen that TAG chest rig in use, was being used by an NSW member (SEAL). The picture is out there somewhere. I guess for alot of DA roles it would work good. Anything where you somehow don't need to go ****e!

AIRBORNEJOCK

01-12-2006, 04:43 AM

Thanks for the info.
How long do the zip ties usually last with the vibration?

I'll hafta try that next time I see an GPMG which will probably be years down the road. Thanks for the info. Good idea with the extra belts atop your rucksack.

By the way, I have seen that TAG chest rig in use, was being used by an NSW member (SEAL). The picture is out there somewhere. I guess for alot of DA roles it would work good. Anything where you somehow don't need to go ****e!

i dont know what the 240s feed tray is like but ours basically has loops in it and if you get some decent cable ties on it its not coming off in a hurry.

if your carrying the gun in the light role we dont get a spare barrell but if your using it in the sf you carry 2 spares and change them every 400 rounds.

gafkiwi

01-12-2006, 05:17 AM

if your carrying the gun in the light role we dont get a spare barrell but if your using it in the sf you carry 2 spares and change them every 400 rounds.
Sweet, didn't know that you just had the 1, is that the same for the Minimi?
In the SF role we have 3 spares but change at around 400 as well, when firing those long fire plans on high rates even 3 spare barrels sometimes don't seem like enough.

ogukuo72

01-12-2006, 05:30 AM

gafkiwi

01-12-2006, 05:52 AM

Usually, the GPMG gunner don't carry the spare ammunition himself. He carries the gun. The gunner assistant carries the ammo.

With the LMG, it's possible to carry the gun with the ammo. Not so with the GPMG.

In what army is this? I make no claims to being the toughest soldier around but I haven't had much of a problem carrying a fair chunk of the ammo and the spare barrel when I've carried the gimpy in the light role, and in SF role a couple of belts and 3 spare barrels. So if the assistant gunners got the ammo, What happens if he goes down for arguments case say in a ambush, the gunner now has F all ammo so what does he do now, run back into the ambush to get it?

TacoDelRio

01-12-2006, 05:55 AM

I don't even remember what the feed assembly is like.

All I remember is changing a barrel real quick, without gloves, and removing a layer or two of skin from my hands. Oops. I guess that's what the carry handle is for.

Thanks for the info.

gafkiwi

01-12-2006, 06:07 AM

Just a question for any Americans who have used the 240 with hand guard/heat shield over the barrel...
Is it hinged and opens to remove the barrel or is there more to it?

AIRBORNEJOCK

01-12-2006, 07:03 AM

the old burnt hand on the barrel you only ever make that mistake once in your career.
im with the big man,if your a gunner you usually carry the gun and at least 400 link usually more so you can do some damage by yourself if your no2 cant get to you immediately.
as for the minimi it is issued with a spare barrel which is rather odd to me when the gun isnt.as for the sf the 2 spare barrels get mega hot when on the sf role.a wee tip for you we put 2 trip flare pickets to the right of the gun and when you change the barrel put the hot one to rest on the pickets this lets the air circulate round the barrel but also doesnt set the grass on fire.
wait out and ill post a pic to show you what i mean.

2/1kiwi

01-12-2006, 04:57 PM

SF Role No 1 carries the Barrel Bag 3 Spare barrels, spare working parts, C2 Site and box, aiming posts, 2 belts in the your pack and however much rounds you can carry in you webbing.

No 2 carries the tripod and 2 belts or however much he can carry.

These are the minium numbers, i have carried alot more ammo than this
as Gaf kiwi would know whilst on Ex we dont usually have a security party
so they pretend we have one and we end up carring all the ammo between the plt(DFSW/HMG)

2/1kiwi

01-12-2006, 05:04 PM

It's in Canadian dollars :D

312 canadian dollars = 387.274 NZ dollars now thats a Fu%^en ripoff for that chest rig!!

www.xe.com

AIRBORNEJOCK

01-12-2006, 07:53 PM

There's simply no way of comfortably carrying GPMG ammo on your body. The best way is to carry it in cans or boxes by hand, or on a carrier rack on the back.

Draping ammunition all over the body ala Hollywood, or having it dangle out of the gun, is a good way of snagging on some vegetation, getting rounds pushed out of alignment, getting dirt and dust on the ammunition, or having the belts come loose and drop off.

still have to laugh at this post i think hes been watching to many discovery channel progs as opposed to having his ass in the grass with the kit.
what army are you in have you been in?the salvation army?
652

gafkiwi

01-12-2006, 09:33 PM

[QUOTE=AIRBORNEJOCK]still have to laugh at this post i think hes been watching to many discovery channel progs as opposed to having his ass in the grass with the kit.
what army are you in have you been in?the salvation army?

I know what it is Jock, He's watches alot of Band of Brothers and other WW II movies thinks thats how its done now, that or he doesn't know the difference between GPMG and HMG.

TacoDelRio

01-13-2006, 01:54 AM

Just a question for any Americans who have used the 240 with hand guard/heat shield over the barrel...
Is it hinged and opens to remove the barrel or is there more to it?

Pull up and rearward hard. There are hooks that latch onto a bar on the gas port assembly deal. The handguard holds itself onto the barrel with clampy-dealies that are held on with pressure.

AIRBORNEJOCK, thanks. Yeah I guess that flare would make your position a little more "popular" if you touched the barrel to it.

Field_Gunner

01-13-2006, 02:53 AM

James

01-13-2006, 04:34 AM

There are a bunch of studs here! When I was in the USMC I never wanted to carry more than 600 rounds at a time for my SAW (Minimi) because it was heavy... God bless whoever made a comment about carrying 500 belted 7.62 in a single pouch!

AIRBORNEJOCK

01-13-2006, 06:11 AM

when I did a stint as opfor on an ex I was given 4 guys and a C-6 one of the guys actually had the MG course and had packed his bag with 4 cans two on the bottom two on top the top cans had the lids removed, when we hit a section (completely by accident) he and the gunner dropped, he swung the bag off his back and opened the top by the time the gunner had burnt off the 20+ rnd teaser belt and had allready re-loaded the gun by the time I knew what the hell was happening. the pack wasnt issued but he said he got it in england.

as we wernt given a C-9 and limited ammount of blank for the 6 (10 belts) it was sad when on day 3 of a 9 day ex we had to turn in the 6 but it was good for me and the other three guys who dont get that much time firing the C-6 I just wish my camera didnt break on the first day

feeding out a daysack is the way ahead dunno about the tins though.you can arrange the ammo in there without them.some people say to put it in a sandbag but in my experience the rounds just end up getting tangled and the heads of the rounds end up going through the sandbag and it all gos for a bag of ****.
gafkiwi i think your right about band of brother boy.

AIRBORNEJOCK

01-13-2006, 06:12 AM

oh and 500 link in a single pouch that sounds like a good idea if your built like the incredible hulk.

AIRBORNEJOCK

01-13-2006, 02:20 PM

Heres What I Was Taliking About With The Barrels Also Note The Privatley Made Cocking Handle Extension For The Sf Role Sorry About The Capitals.

TacoDelRio

01-14-2006, 04:13 AM

That's a ****load of brass. Thanks for the pics.

AIRBORNEJOCK

01-14-2006, 01:11 PM

heres a few more pics of the blokes on the gun line.
705

706

707

emergency defence of the gunline

708

1 man gun team drills

709

710

711

712

using the c2 sight targets can be recorded exactly like a mortar so targets can be engaged in the dark and if the gunline is smoked out.

713

martinexsquaddie

01-14-2006, 02:42 PM

mount gun and tripod !
either use a landrover or get ready for serious pain!

TacoDelRio

01-15-2006, 12:20 AM

When in the SF role, dismounted, does each gun team / shooting pair carry the buttstock for their L7, for squad level support or basically anything without a tripod?

Here are some shots of our 240B's in Fort Benning:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/TacoDelRio/24020Sight20.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/TacoDelRio/24020Fire.jpg

And in some sandy places, with an ELCAN (M145) mounted atop:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/TacoDelRio/240bm1922.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/TacoDelRio/240b.jpg

2/1kiwi

01-15-2006, 02:15 AM

TacoDelRio

01-15-2006, 02:26 AM

Yes the butt is on the weapon in the light role ,when the weapon is in the Sf role the butt is replaced with the buffer plate

Im guessing that you guys use the T&E mech as opposed to the C2 Site for recording targets?

Yes on the traverse/elevation mechanism. I don't remember using a "C2" sight, if that's what the optical device is you have your AG using, then not so far as I've seen.

2/1kiwi

01-15-2006, 03:55 AM

Yes on the traverse/elevation mechanism. I don't remember using a "C2" sight, if that's what the optical device is you have your AG using, then not so far as I've seen.

We use the T&E mech on the .50's easy to use but found its not as accurate as the C2 site.

Other opinions??

TacoDelRio

01-15-2006, 05:03 AM

We use the T&E mech on the .50's easy to use but found its not as accurate as the C2 site.

Other opinions??

Worked fine. Pretty rugged. I didn't work with them nearly enough, but they seemed just fine. I'm sure it's not as accurate as any optical instrument, but it's small and already part of the tripod assembly. Lotsa guys have those M145 ELCAN sights on there, so that takes care of part of the equation of putting grazing fire in the same spots.

They taught us to shoot with your right hand/left hand, and use your free hadn to toggle the T&E Mechanism to get the desired effect. I'm not sure if many people record all the info for input in T&E on their rangecards, assuming there's much static defense anywhere anymore, with most guys experience based on using them atop HUMMV's.

AIRBORNEJOCK

01-16-2006, 09:02 AM

if you look at the tripod in the pics there is an actual buffer system on it that makes the rounds land in a pattern (beaten zone) basically giving you a cigar shape on the target with roujnds landing all over it.

depending on the range- the shorter the range a fat beaten zone the longer it gets the beaten zone gets slimmer and taller.

theres a hilarious army video called the long and the short of it with a fat chick and a skinny chick in a pub and thats how they explain the beaten zones.

TacoDelRio

01-16-2006, 07:00 PM

What kind of tripod is it? Designation? I'd like to check that out.

Ours is M122 I think. Or M1922. Something like that.

AIRBORNEJOCK

01-16-2006, 07:15 PM

dunno ive never heard it being called anything other than a tripod ill find out for you though.
heres a few examples of the beaten zones sizes-

at 600 m width 2.3 m length 258 m
at 1100m width 4.2m length 142 m
at 1800 m width 6.9 m length 112 m
at 2500 mwidth 9.6 m length 104 m- firing from 1800-2500m is done using rangle tables and working the gun exactly like a mortar this allows the gun to fire over obstacles and also for friendly troops to call it in on pre registered tgts.

2/1kiwi

01-17-2006, 12:00 AM

theres a hilarious army video called the long and the short of it with a fat chick and a skinny chick in a pub and thats how they explain the beaten zones.[/QUOTE]

Lol hard case video , we show it to the newer soldiers when they get introduced to the GPMG

TacoDelRio

01-17-2006, 04:33 AM

Here's the M122 tripod, without the T&E, showing the T&E bar at the rear:
http://www.sentryshield.com/images/WeaponMounts/MK125MOD0-1.jpg
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-68/image841.gif
With M240G (I think it's a golf)
http://www.sentryshield.com/images/WeaponMounts/MK125MOD0-2.jpg

As far as recording and firing on certain areas to create beaten zones, all I ever learned was to cover that on a range card, showing deflection and depressions (areas you can't hit directly) etc.

Here are some soldiers showing how you fire with your right/dominant hand, and elevate with your left/nondominant hand. His hand is on the T&E roller:
http://www.sden.org/jdr/stargate/images/adj1.h10.jpg

Found this site in my searches: http://www.sentryshield.com/

I gotta search for that video!

Michael RVR

01-17-2006, 07:29 AM

Yes the butt is on the weapon in the light role ,when the weapon is in the Sf role the butt is replaced with the buffer plate

Im guessing that you guys use the T&E mech as opposed to the C2 Site for recording targets?

Sounds like you do things a little different over there than here, we don't actually use the sf butt (though we've got enough for all the guns).

Also you mentioned that the no1 was carrying the spare barrels - not so the way we operate. no2 carrys the tripod + barrells + ammo, and no1 has the gun + ammo + c2 site.

AIRBORNEJOCK - whatever. I do use the Mag 58 in the SF role, what of it ? You're not going to be able to do much sustained fire if you don't drive round in rovers. ;)

2/1kiwi

01-17-2006, 02:09 PM

Sounds like you do things a little different over there than here, we don't actually use the sf butt (though we've got enough for all the guns).

Also you mentioned that the no1 was carrying the spare barrels - not so the way we operate. no2 carrys the tripod + barrells + ammo, and no1 has the gun + ammo + c2 site.

AIRBORNEJOCK - whatever. I do use the Mag 58 in the SF role, what of it ? You're not going to be able to do much sustained fire if you don't drive round in rovers. ;)

RF Infantry corps trainees being intriduced to the SF role
Buffer plate mounted no C2
http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/2575/ballmaxwellsf11ys.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

archade

11-15-2008, 07:02 AM

Hi there,

If I want to purchase a chest or a webbing for a M240 gunner where I can find good stuff? I would like a webbing like a UK army one, with big pouches all around the belly
thanks
Archade

LineDoggie

11-15-2008, 01:09 PM

Years ago (1982) I used WW2 G.I. issue GP ammo bags for my 7.62 link. I could easily carry 600 rounds in 2 bags, or fit the cans themselves into the bag. Later I used SAW pouches as well.

DANGER_CLOSE

11-15-2008, 07:19 PM

just like anything, i think that mission and situation dictates how much you are going to carry and who will carry what. in my time, saw pouch on the left side for the gunner with 50 rounds for assault fire position plus his issue m9/ka-bar and other gear. 50rd box/bandoleer (from the ammo can) attached to the weapons tray for the gunner in any role. team leader would carry about 200 rounds and t&e/spare barrel bag, m4 and other gear, asst gunner would carry 200rds and tripod, m16 and other gear. use grunts to carry more. i added a bit more than ammo because ammo is heavy when it is included with all the other gear you have/need to carry. 500 rounds, yeah maybe between the team.

being that the usmc 0331 machine gunners use the gpmg as a support weapon and detaches the team to infantry platoons, make the 0311's carry all the ammo in cans/bandoleers. bandoleer meaning cloth bag with strap, not pancho villa style. looks cool for rambo but can damage or dirty links and ammo.

we would carry the ammo in the box/bandoleer. unless in the base of fire role. the ammo cans would be prepped with linked ammo only carried by everyone.

i understand that the army operates differently in regards to gpmg and operates them as a bigger saw within a squad or platoon. wasnt in the army and thats what my friends in the army told me.

now if i had my way i think this would be the way to carry more ammo instead of ammo cans. http://www.aitesusa.com/product.asp?id=4130

my .02 cents.