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Geezah
01-11-2006, 08:47 AM
CHILDREN as young as nine will be allowed to handle high-powered weaponry to scare them away from gun crime.

Armed police are to take rifles into the classroom as a shock tactic to frighten youngsters.

Officers hope its "hard-hitting" campaign of taking guns into schools will scare children away from gangs.

The specialist Matrix team will work with pupils from the age of nine upwards.

In October, the ECHO revealed how children as young as five were caught with BB guns, while some between 10 and 14 were parading handguns, and 15 to 19-year-olds were using shotguns.

Today the founder of the Merseyside charity Mothers Against Guns backed the new scare tactic scheme.

Paula Ogunboro, whose 25-year-old son Eugene was shot dead in Liverpool two years ago, said: "These kids really need something to hit them hard and this could impact on them.

"You need something scary to get through to them. Maybe then they will think twice about getting involved with guns."

Force statistics reveal that almost half of all offenders caught with firearms in Merseyside are 19 or under.

In May, a 13-year-old Croxteth boy was arrested on suspicion of attempted murder after a fellow teenager was shot in the face in the area.

Two weeks later, seven teenagers were blasted with shotguns by yobs from a rival gang, also in Croxteth.

And in September, three 14-year-old girls walked into a school in Netherton and threatened a class assistant with a BB gun.

Chief constable Bernard Hogan-Howe hopes to reduce the problem of guns in schools by stationing officers at every secondary school.

And he is backing the plan to take weapons into the classroom.

The new scheme will start in north Liverpool before spreading to the rest of the city. It will then be introduced in Wirral, St Helens, Sefton and Knowsley.

Dedicated firearms officers will run classes using a specially-made video to warn about the problems guns cause.

Detective Chief Superintendent Andy Cooke, the head of Merseyside Police's anti-gun Matrix unit, said: "Armed officers will explain to the children about the dangers of firearms and the impact they can have."

VICTIMS of gun crime will work with police over the next few months to hone anti-gang operations.

Parents of Merseyside shooting victims will sit on an independent panel with community leaders to give their thoughts to police.

The panel first met last month and will hold regular talks with officers.

But although the group will say how operations can be improved, members will not act as police informants or give tip-offs to detectives.

Police have also set up a forum with gun dealers which also sat for the first time in November.

That group involves officers meeting with gun clubs and officers firearms shops to keep an eye on who is buying weaponry.

Matrix operations have this year seen 49 criminals caged for a total of 353 years.

Convicts include: Andrew Grant, who was jailed for 15 years reduced to 13 on appeal in May after admitting drug dealing and owning a deadly automatic assault rifle.

Michael Kerwin, who was sentenced to eight years for being part of a gang which carried out six robberies on security vans in the region.

Joseph Wright junior, who was jailed for six years for hiding his drug-dealing father's profits from sales of Class A substances.

Colin Lees - whose gang were caught smuggling £32m of ecstasy and speed.

Scott Minshull, who tried to bring £35m of cannabis into Merseyside in hollowed-out marble boxes.

THE Matrix officers taking their anti-gun message into the classroom have already spread it on the streets.

Set up a year ago, the specialist unit was designed to tackle weapons, drugs and gangs.

They now know the criminals are listening to their message, city criminals have begun daubing abusive graffiti targeted at the Matrix team.

Police are taking it as a compliment, showing they are making Merseyside gangs uncomfortable.

Detective Chief Superintendent Andy Cooke, the head of the Matrix team, said: "We can tell the criminals have heard about Matrix and know what the unit stands for by graffiti appearing all over the city and on number plates.

"We're hitting criminals where it hurts, in the pockets. Vast seizures have stopped gangs from operating while they try to recover their funds to buy more drugs.

"Criminals know who we are and we know where they are.

"Merseyside is now a safer place than last year, and next year it will be even safer still."

Messages such as "**** the Matrix" have been painted on walls in Liverpool, while the same phrase has been printed on fake number plates on stolen cars used by gangs for cash-intransit raids.

But police are warning the crooks that 2006 will see more drug seizures, more assets stripped from gangsters and more crooks put behind bars.

Mr Cooke said: "The whole point of the Matrix team is to reduce gun crime and we have had success in that this year.

"We've had a good first year. I'd give us eight out of ten but there's room for improvement. We can and will do more." Matrix is two years ahead of schedule in tackling serious crime.

Senior officers drew up plans last year to reduce fatal and serious shootings by 25% by 2008.

The number of fatal incidents dropped from 10 last year to one this year, a 90% reduction.

Attempted murders involving firearms fell from 16 to 4, a drop of 75% since 2004, while raids on security guards dropped by 25.3%, down from 91 to 68 this year.

Seizures include 602kg of amphetamine, worth up to £48m on the streets, 35kg of heroin valued at £1.76m, 75kg of cocaine worth £3m and 360,000 ecstasy tablets worth £1m.

Police also recovered 19 top-level firearms along with more than 800 rounds of ammunition.

And cash and assets worth almost £1m have been seized as well as more than 1,000 vehicles which were being used illegally or by criminals.

Link (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16568943%26method=full%26siteid=50061%26page=1%26headline=a%2dhard%2dlesson%2dto%2dlearn-name_page.html)

Makes more sense to teach kids not to join gangs and take drugs than take high powered rifles into schools.
I fired my first firearm when I was 8, this was during my first visit to the US, apart from a short stint when I moved here of not being interested in firearms I would say being exposed one will not have the desired affect.

Weasel
01-11-2006, 09:38 AM
Link (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16568943%26method=full%26siteid=50061%26page=1%26headline=a%2dhard%2dlesson%2dto%2dlearn-name_page.html)

Makes more sense to teach kids not to join gangs and take drugs than take high powered rifles into schools.
I fired my first firearm when I was 8, this was during my first visit to the US, apart from a short stint when I moved here of not being interested in firearms I would say being exposed one will not have the desired affect.

And look what it has done you. :petting:

p-)

babydave
01-11-2006, 11:15 AM
this is not gonna work, little charlie watches james bond film, next day police give him a rifle to hold - not gonna have the desired effect.

would be better if teachers were stricter, laws and punishment tougher.

if you want a scare tactic maybe they should show the kids the damage bullets can do - blood,gore,dead bodies etc rather than making firearms look more glamorous.

Geezah how would a non US citizen go about going to a firing range on a visit to the US? or is it something only US citizens can do?

Geezah
01-11-2006, 12:12 PM
Geezah how would a non US citizen go about going to a firing range on a visit to the US? or is it something only US citizens can do?

When I first got to shoot it was on my Aunt's 100acres, now when one of our customers came over for a visit with his girlfriend(last April)from Australia, I took them to a State run range. It was easy enough, I just told them he was my bro.
Since then, I took one of my little brothers who was over for a visit in September to another range up the road from me and they don't even ask, it's not a well known place.
The other place that is super cool to shoot is Durandal's, he has one sweet set up over there.
The reason it was easy for non-citizens is they know someone that owns firearms and can take them shooting. Otherwise it might be abit hard if you come for a holiday and you don't know anyone. Saying that I have heard that Japanese business men come over here and like to frequent the ranges where you can rent firearms, so I'm not entirely sure how hard it is.

joe mama
01-11-2006, 12:34 PM
When I first got to shoot it was on my Aunt's 100acres, now when one of our customers came over for a visit with his girlfriend(last April)from Australia, I took them to a State run range. It was easy enough, I just told them he was my bro.
Since then, I took one of my little brothers who was over for a visit in September to another range up the road from me and they don't even ask, it's not a well known place.
The other place that is super cool to shoot is Durandal's, he has one sweet set up over there.
The reason it was easy for non-citizens is they know someone that owns firearms and can take them shooting. Otherwise it might be abit hard if you come for a holiday and you don't know anyone. Saying that I have heard that Japanese business men come over here and like to frequent the ranges where you can rent firearms, so I'm not entirely sure how hard it is.

What geez said plus: many ranges (I've done this in four states, including Massachusetts, which has extremely strict gun laws compared to most states) allow you to rent guns as long as you have a valid id of some kind. Mostly the point of the id is to prove you're over 18 (or maybe 21? not sure) and you are who you say you are when you fill out the form that says "if i shoot myself, it's not the ranges fault" and crap like that.
If you're going to visit the US sometime soon, look up gun stores and ranges in the area you're visiting and call them. They'll let you know what you need to do to shoot with them.

joe mama
01-11-2006, 12:39 PM
And look what it has done you. :petting:

p-)

Yeah, just look at the horrible tragedy: he is familiar with the gun laws in his state and obeys them, and responsibly owns and uses his firearms and has even introduced others to responsible firearm behavior. That's in case you're serious...I think you're mostly just teasing though, so here's that response:
Now, I, on the other hand, introduced to my own BB gun at 7 and introduced to basic gun safety (which was mostly don't touch, but a little more) by my dad (a 23 year veteran police officer at that time), am very well known for going up on my roof and taking shots at cops, firemen, old ladies, puppies, children, and mimes. Of course, the mime's are asking for it. And those old ladies.
p-)

Weasel
01-11-2006, 01:18 PM
Yeah, just look at the horrible tragedy: he is familiar with the gun laws in his state and obeys them, and responsibly owns and uses his firearms and has even introduced others to responsible firearm behavior. That's in case you're serious...I think you're mostly just teasing though, so here's that response:
Now, I, on the other hand, introduced to my own BB gun at 7 and introduced to basic gun safety (which was mostly don't touch, but a little more) by my dad (a 23 year veteran police officer at that time), am very well known for going up on my roof and taking shots at cops, firemen, old ladies, puppies, children, and mimes. Of course, the mime's are asking for it. And those old ladies.
p-)

They should have shot you from the roof with whatever.....eggs, water canon, marshmallows..... p-)

MrScruff
01-11-2006, 03:03 PM
Oh Jesus please someone find the vide of the cop NDing during a talk about guns in school :D

joe mama
01-11-2006, 03:06 PM
They should have shot you from the roof with whatever.....eggs, water canon, marshmallows..... p-)

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, marshmallows...make mine flaming, please! the flame can be out as long as they're toasted...that's what i need in my arsenal! a flaming toasted marshmallow gun! w00t!

Mr Gently Benevolent
01-11-2006, 08:07 PM
I don't really see this working at all, looks more like PR than anything else.
I remember our visit from a policeman when I was at school, we set fire to the refuse from the school kitchens. We were all aged 7 and it was a big deal with the teachers at the time. This was in the early 70's.