PSO or red dot on Kalash, advice needed

[drGreen]

Hi guys, I currently use a ak-47 (in summer I purchase the Saiga M3) I shoot mostly at 100m range and am planning to do dynamic rifle shooting ASP/DSR (dynamisch geweer schieten in dutch, dunno the correct translation to english :( however I can discribe it as shooting on some kinda obstacle course) next year...

Now what should I buy... the PSO 2.5-5x24 or 4x24 scope or a red dot collimator (Cobra or PK-A)? Does the red dot sight have some magnification or absolutely none?

http://www.rusmilitary.com/html/c-sight_cobra.htm

[Randomrokottaja]

Hi guys, I currently use a ak-47 (in summer I purchase the Saiga M3) I shoot mostly at 100m range and am planning to do dynamic rifle shooting ASP/DSR (dynamisch geweer schieten in dutch, dunno the correct translation to english :( however I can discribe it as shooting on some kinda obstacle course) next year...

Now what should I buy... the PSO 2.5-5x24 or 4x24 scope or a red dot collimator (Cobra or PK-A)? Does the red dot sight have some magnification or absolutely none?

http://www.rusmilitary.com/html/c-sight_cobra.htm

Depends on the purpose you are going to use your rifle.

If you use to shoot from one position at 100m range or longer, then PSO 4x24 scope and specially it's V -model could be your choise. V-model fits better for AK's dimensions/short stock (ordinary PSO-1 is suited for Dragunov).

Kobra and other red dot sights fit then better for rapid practical style shooting at short ranges.

[~~~~]

Hi guys, I currently use a ak-47 (in summer I purchase the Saiga M3) I shoot mostly at 100m range and am planning to do dynamic rifle shooting

is it leagal to have an automatic rifle in Holland?

[drGreen]

is it leagal to have an automatic rifle in Holland?

I wish we could have automatic rifles in Holland :(

It has been modded...

[TacoDelRio]

I've got a Rusky 4x on my .308 (courtesy Sergey!), and it's nice having such a large field of view. If you plan on doing "dynamic shooting", which I imagine means "shooting shiit up close really fast and stuff", I'd go with the red dot unless you are in a place where your targets are up close, but you get to an open range on one stage of your shoot, and the targets are far away.

The red dot should put holes in human-sized targets out to AK-effective ranges with ease.

[Randomrokottaja]

"is it leagal to have an automatic rifle in Holland?"

Saiga M3 is semi-auto.

I have no clue about Holland's weapon laws though. In Finland you can legally own almost what you ever want to own. Actually weapon laws are more liberal (and even well working) than in USA. No AWBs etc. futile hippie crap laws. :>

[TacoDelRio]

"is it leagal to have an automatic rifle in Holland?"

Saiga M3 is semi-auto.

I have no clue about Holland's weapon laws though. In Finland you can legally own almost what you ever want to own. Actually weapon laws are more liberal (and even well working) than in USA. No AWBs etc. futile hippie crap laws. :>

Ain't that sad but true.

[Randomrokottaja]

"It has been modded..."

What do you mean? Operation modification from full-auto to semi-auto or appearance modifications? Which have been in great fashion in some european countries and also in US.

Naughty evil looking pistol grips and bayonet lugs! Sometimes i just don't understand politicians in some countries but lets hope their "fashions" such those will atleast permanently stay outside finnish borders. Nothing else but clowning.

Sorry, if a bit offtopic.

[perdurabo]

maybe buy rails for your ak so you can puyt eotechs and other stuff on it? or if you don't want to change stock buy adapter with top rails attached to AK side port?

[drGreen]

"It has been modded..."

What do you mean? Operation modification from full-auto to semi-auto or appearance modifications?.


It's been made from full-auto to semi-auto...

I've made up my mind... the PSO 2.5-5x24 scope will be the one woot

[Randomrokottaja]

It's been made from full-auto to semi-auto...

I've made up my mind... the PSO 2.5-5x24 scope will be the one woot

Ok. Actually civilian market Saiga M3s are originally manufactured as semi-auto.

You did pretty good and cheap choice. Are you going to get the forward extended V -model designed to be AK mounted?

[drGreen]

Ok. Actually civilian market Saiga M3s are originally manufactured as semi-auto.

You did pretty good and cheap choice. Are you going to get the forward extended V -model designed to be AK mounted?

It's this scope
POSP 2.5-5x24 Zoom Tactical Weapon Rifle Scope w/ 400 meter Simonov Rangefinding Reticle, AK Version
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/cgi-bin/kowstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=GSPOSP2524AK400
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/graph/images/sighting_devices/posp_pso/posp_2.5_5x24vd_3_600.jpg

This one should fit the FEG AK-47
AK BMP-1 Side Mounting Rail
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/cgi-bin/kowstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=AMBMP1

With this bulb
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/cgi-bin/kowstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=APOSPBULB3

[Randomrokottaja]

It's this scope
POSP 2.5-5x24 Zoom Tactical Weapon Rifle Scope w/ 400 meter Simonov Rangefinding Reticle, AK Version
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/cgi-bin/kowstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=GSPOSP2524AK400
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/graph/images/sighting_devices/posp_pso/posp_2.5_5x24vd_3_600.jpg

This one should fit the FEG AK-47
AK BMP-1 Side Mounting Rail
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/cgi-bin/kowstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=AMBMP1

With this bulb
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/cgi-bin/kowstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=APOSPBULB3


Yes, that scope. How much does it cost, and do you buy it from a store or order from internet? Prices have usually been between 100e and 200e.

[Hra47]

"Hi guys, I currently use a ak-47 (in summer I purchase the Saiga M3)"

"Ok. Actually civilian market Saiga M3s are originally manufactured as semi-auto." ( by randomrokottaja )

So I guess you now use a ak-47 ( wooden stocks, machined for semi-auto only, some eastern block-model Hungarian FEG, Chech VZ or Norinco perhaps? ) and now lookin for a Saiga M-3.. right?.. for the summer

[sct1886]

I have both a scope and a Kobra. The scope is great for sparsely vegetated areas and magnifying targets in poor light and against background. The red dot is king for CQB shots. I use a 8x PSOP variable diopter, it has been relegated to my .308 Saiga. Best Regards Scott
www.kalinkaoptics.com
www.freedomoptics.com
Both good companies

[drGreen]

Yes, that scope. How much does it cost, and do you buy it from a store or order from internet? Prices have usually been between 100e and 200e.

Please bother to click the link..... :(

It will cost me a total of around €200 (siderail, scope, lightbulb)

[Randomrokottaja]

Please bother to click the link..... :(

$111.97 seems to be a moderate price for an AK version PSO. Not bad at all. At least cheaper than importer's prices here in Finland who want to get about 180e/pce.

If you accept the price, then you have just to make the deal.

[drGreen]

$111.97 seems to be a moderate price for an AK version PSO. Not bad at all. At least cheaper than importer's prices here in Finland who want to get about 180e/pce.

If you accept the price, then you have just to make the deal.

Kalinkascopes have an european based warehouse so you won't have to pay import tax ;)

[sergey31]

It's this scope
POSP 2.5-5x24 Zoom Tactical Weapon Rifle Scope w/ 400 meter Simonov Rangefinding Reticle, AK Version
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/cgi-bin/kowstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=GSPOSP2524AK400
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/graph/images/sighting_devices/posp_pso/posp_2.5_5x24vd_3_600.jpg

This one should fit the FEG AK-47
AK BMP-1 Side Mounting Rail
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/cgi-bin/kowstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=AMBMP1

With this bulb
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/cgi-bin/kowstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=APOSPBULB3

That scope is pretty nice, I have it on my SKS. VERY clear optic with sharp reticule (wide angle) ... Mine is 2.5x18 with precision target shooting reticule.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/sergey25/Stuff45/SKS3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/sergey25/Stuff45/SKS2.jpg
Iluminated reticule... (Manual zoom focus with 360-ISO setting)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/sergey25/Stuff45/a.jpg

[Randomrokottaja]

Kalinkascopes have an european based warehouse so you won't have to pay import tax ;)

Then it is no problem. Should sometime order a one myself too but it has already become a never-ending project.;(

Sergey31: Nice looking SKS. What size of shot groups it is capable to shoot with PSO and with only iron sights? How is the general accuracy compared with AK?

[sergey31]

SKS with a good bore/barrel is more accurate then AK 47.
My best was 5 shots 1.3" at 100 yd with Silver Bear ammo and without a scope it was 1.5 to 2". This is a new SKS. I heard there is match ammo in 7.62x39mm I would like to see if it would produce any better results. The scope make a world of a difference.

There were many "snipers" in Balkans and in Chechnya who used SKS as a sniper weapons with quite success.

[Randomrokottaja]

SKS with a good bore/barrel is more accurate then AK 47.
My best was 5 shots 1.3" at 100 yd with Silver Bear ammo and without a scope it was 1.5 to 2". This is a new SKS. I heard there is match ammo in 7.62x39mm I would like to see if it would produce any better results. The scope make a world of a difference.

There were many "snipers" in Balkans and in Chechnya who used SKS as a sniper weapons with quite success.

At least finnish Lapua made 7.62 x 39 ammo is accurate but it is manufactured using western tolerance standards which don't then fit correctly with eastern tolerances. Do you know anything about this match ammo, it's mark, manufacturer and availability? Would like to try it in AK too.

I have shot sometime with SKS but availability is nowadays poor if don't want to get a chinese Norinco's SKS which quality varies between poor-damn poor, as usually in chinese weapons.

[sergey31]

I have not seen that ammo anywhere, and if I did I would definitely buy it.

Yah I hear you, I have Chinese SKS that is pretty good for 5" to 10" MOA, I think they were trying to make a shotgun and SKS came out instead.

Yugoslavian are pretty good and there are plenty of new and unissued ones, Russian are lighter and unissued ones are VERY hard to come by not to mention they are 4 to 5 times the price of Yugo 59/66.

This is some good hunting ammo... I have some but did not shoot it yet.
http://www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/highresimage?saleitemid=244739

[drGreen]

Maybe a stupid question but anyways ....

Does it have a battery included or do I have to buy it seperately.....

[sergey31]

Yes, they are included.

[drGreen]

Yes, they are included.

Thanks man!

[Randomrokottaja]

I have not seen that ammo anywhere, and if I did I would definitely buy it.

Yah I hear you, I have Chinese SKS that is pretty good for 5" to 10" MOA, I think they were trying to make a shotgun and SKS came out instead.

Yugoslavian are pretty good and there are plenty of new and unissued ones, Russian are lighter and unissued ones are VERY hard to come by not to mention they are 4 to 5 times the price of Yugo 59/66.

This is some good hunting ammo... I have some but did not shoot it yet.
http://www.midwayusa.com/mediasvr.dll/highresimage?saleitemid=244739

Norinco seem to have zero quality control. Buying a chinese weapon is like playing roulette or at least probability to get a good piece is the same class with the probability to win.

How does that ammo lead head affect accuracy? I have used czheckkoslovakian and DDR surplus ammo in AK and they have been pretty good stuff. Finnish VPT and Lapua rounds with narrower western bullet use to spread the shot group to size about 10" MOA or even bigger.

Yugo SKS are not available here which is shame. Russian ones are then hard to find.

Do you have AK magazine adapter to use detachable 30rnd AK mags or do you use only the regular SKS 10rnd mag and ammo clips?

"Does it have a battery included or do I have to buy it seperately....."

Included, but as usually with batteries coming with any electronic devices as digicam, mp3 players etc. etc. their quality isn't the best available. You will get the best result when you just go to store and buy some real trademark batteries like duracell, procell, philips etc. Not nice when battery dies during shooting session.

[drGreen]

That's an awesome scope you got there btw, I was reading the background info on kalinkaoptics..
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/cgi-bin/kowstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=GSPSO2518SVD

[sergey31]

How does that ammo lead head affect accuracy? I have used czheckkoslovakian and DDR surplus ammo in AK and they have been pretty good stuff. Finnish VPT and Lapua rounds with narrower western bullet use to spread the shot group to size about 10" MOA or even bigger.

It does not make much difference, still they are pretty accurate. I've shot about 6 different types of ammo trough different SKS rifles and the worst was older regular Wolf ammo.
CorBon self defense ammo is suppose to be pretty accurate from what I heard, but it is very expencive.


Do you have AK magazine adapter to use detachable 30rnd AK mags or do you use only the regular SKS 10rnd mag and ammo clips?

Unfortunately here in California I can only have 10 round mags, but IMO they are not even worth bothering with. Striper clips work just fine especially if you practice a lot. I'm more of a careful shooter and I'm never in a hurry to empty my magazine, every single shot counts for me.


That's an awesome scope you got there btw, I was reading the background info on kalinkaoptics..

Your right, it's unbelievable on how CLEAR this scope is and very durable construction as well. Well worth the price IMO.

[Randomrokottaja]

"It does not make much difference, still they are pretty accurate. I've shot about 6 different types of ammo trough different SKS rifles and the worst was older regular Wolf ammo."

I have used some wolf ammo myself too but i didn't like it too much. Accuracy and point of impact was almost 1:1 with chzeck S&B and surplus ammo.

I bought some cheap wolf 9mm ammo which is originally manufactured for US markets. I haven't tried them yet but at least they look very tidy compared with wolf 7.62x39 ammo, the russian green ones with red varnish.

"Unfortunately here in California I can only have 10 round mags, but IMO they are not even worth bothering with. Striper clips work just fine especially if you practice a lot. I'm more of a careful shooter and I'm never in a hurry to empty my magazine, every single shot counts for me."

I have heard using clips needs a lot of practise. I tried once to load SKS with clips but i managed to put in only a couple of rounds.;< What kind of shooting you use to shoot? Traditional marksmanship at 100yds range or practical style action shooting? Latter genre needs large magazine capacity.

[drGreen]

Yes, they are included.

Today my new scope arrived woot

However Kalinkaoptics didn't manage to include batteries and bolts to attach the rail on the Kalash... :(

Guess I'll have to mail 'm...

[Randomrokottaja]

Today my new scope arrived woot

However Kalinkaoptics didn't manage to include batteries and bolts to attach the rail on the Kalash... :(

Guess I'll have to mail 'm...

Do you need to drill holes and make twists for the bolts? If so, then it is better to let someone certified gun smith to do it. Not a big job though.

In my AK siderail is already attached at the factory, so i need just the scope or something else to mount, and of course the moneys to hit the desk.

However, my eternity project is still in progress.;)

[drGreen]

I've seen a Saiga yesterday at the gunshop... what a disappointment... the muzzle brake was really hideous, no extra magazine and no cleaning kit included. They wanted to have €800 for it :(

Think I will stick with the FEG AK47 for a while ;)
Importing an AK74 is too much of a project to me as well

ps. The PSO 2.5-5x24 scope is great woot

[Mastermind]

I'm in agreement...for shooting on the move, reliability, ruggedness...its the red dot..especially for closer in weapon like an Ak (300 meters and under). If my eyes were better, I would stay with iron sights in those ranges, though. Simplicity does have its advantages...thus the AK itself...just something to think about.

[Randomrokottaja]

I've seen a Saiga yesterday at the gunshop... what a disappointment... the muzzle brake was really hideous, no extra magazine and no cleaning kit included. They wanted to have €800 for it :(

Think I will stick with the FEG AK47 for a while ;)
Importing an AK74 is too much of a project to me as well

ps. The PSO 2.5-5x24 scope is great woot

Was that Saiga somekind of raped version with no muzzle brake? 800e for that is simply robbery + modification work to get all AK's magazines to fit. Not worth of it.

What kind of shot groups you have got with the PSO?

[drGreen]

it was this one..

http://img284.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p20801797rj.jpg

[Randomrokottaja]

it was this one..

http://img284.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p20801797rj.jpg

Where is the muzzle break? Even folding stock seems to be welded to a fixed one.

800e is damn too much asked for that raped one. Bad commercial should i say... Around 300-350e is the right price for a Saiga with original muzzle break and 30rnd magazines.

[drGreen]

It has to be a fixed one due to lame @#$ laws in NL

[FDF_Hemppis]

So how do you like the scope drGreen? :)

Any chance of you taking pics? Possibly through it, to give some idea of the FOV? Also, how high above the rifle it sits?

[Randomrokottaja]

It has to be a fixed one due to lame @#$ laws in NL

That is pretty common custom which is set not because folding stock itself but since minimal lenght of rifle set in gun laws.

What kind of shot groups you have got with FEG + PSO? At least scope should be better than original AK iron sights.

[Randomrokottaja]

Ok, got my eternity project finally accomplished and i am now an owner for a PSOP-1 6x24V. I tried it with AK and liked it. Seems to be pretty simple design and durable piece of equipment which is purely made for warfare. It doesn't even prevent using iron sights when PSO is mounted and rough adjusting the sight at 100m (yds.) was fairly easy by just scrolling it's point of aim to be 1:1 with iron sights. Zeroing the scope was also pretty simple too. Didn't take many shots to adjust and confirm it correct.

However the first thing to do was to tighten the locking clamp since it was a bit too loose. Luckily that was a pretty simple job to carry out with using just a multitool. KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid holds true.

Would like to try it with my service rifle (RK62) but unfortunately it has no AK's sidemounting rail which makes them uncompatible.