Bin Laden 'surrounded'

[Uncle Sam]

I haven't been able to verify, but if this is true...


A BRITISH Sunday newspaper is claiming Osama bin Laden has been found and is surrounded by US special forces in an area of land bordering north-west Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The Sunday Express, known for its sometimes colourful scoops, claims the al-Qaeda leader has been "sighted" for the first time since 2001 and is being monitored by satellite.

The paper claims he is in a mountainous area to the north of the Pakistani city of Quetta. The region is said to be peopled with bin Laden supporters and the terrorist leader is estimated to also have 50 of his fanatical bodyguards with him.

The claim is attributed to "a well-placed intelligence source" in Washington, who is quoted as saying: "He (bin Laden) is boxed in."

The paper says the hostile terrain makes an all-out conventional military assault impossible. The plan to capture him would depend on a "grab-him-and-go" style operation.

"US helicopters already sited on the Afghanistan border will swoop in to extricate him," the newspaper says. It claims bin Laden and his men "sleep in caves or out in the open. The area is swept by fierce snow storms howling down from the 10,000ft-high mountain peaks. Donkeys are the only transport."

The special forces are "absolutely confident" there is no escape for bin Laden, and are awaiting the order to go in and get him.

"The timing of that order will ultimately depend on President Bush," the paper says. "Capturing bin Laden will certainly be a huge help for him as he gets ready for the election."

The article says bin Laden's movements are monitored by a National Security Agency satellite.

On Thursday last week, General Richard Myers, chairman of the US joint chiefs of staff, said America had been engaged in "intense" efforts to capture bin Laden, who was believed to be hiding in the border area between Pakistan and Afghanistan.

But he insisted that the focus of the search had not narrowed for months.

[Seoulstriker]

The article says bin Laden's movements are monitored by a National Security Agency satellite.


i forget which is which: the NSA spies in the US and the CIA spies in foreign countries?


or is this the result of the combination of intelligence gathering by the US? :D


or is this just a BS story? ;)

[limbaughfan89]

I wish that that was true...
But if it was true, why don't we have him?

[cut]

I doubt the sunday express would be the first port of call for anyone planning to leak intelligence, do you?

[Uncle Sam]

I haven't been able to verify, but if this is true...


A BRITISH Sunday newspaper is claiming Osama bin Laden has been found and is surrounded by US special forces in an area of land bordering north-west Pakistan and Afghanistan.


Is this the UK version of the Enquirer ?

[Royal]

Is this the UK version of the Enquirer ?

Not quite, but not far off.

[usa320]

If its true...HELL YES. But im skeptical.

[Kitsune]

Seoulstriker wrote:

i forget which is which: the NSA spies in the US and the CIA spies in foreign countries?

The US has a quite a lot of Intelligence Agencies. Counterintelligence is conducted by the FBI, the Intelligence Agencies of the various branches of the US military (coordinated by the Defense Intelligence Agency, DIA).

Foreign Intelligence is mainly conducted by the CIA and by the NSA.
The first is the "classic" spy agency, using both spies and technical means.
The latter is a technical Intelligence Agency which uses practically no spies, but listens to the worldwide communication using listening posts and satelites. It also listens to US communications or has the rights to tap the phones of US citizens, whereas the CIA is strictly forbidden to operate domestically. Additionally the National Security Agency devises codes and cyphers and tries to break those of foreign nations. (Interestingly the NSA is far bigger than the CIA).


As far as bin Laden is concerned, he is allegedly in a region between Afghanistan and Pakistan called "Waziristan" (technically a part of Pakistan but the People leaviung there see that different. This region is quite unaccesible and AL Qaedas are said to feel safe there. In fact, international Intelligence suspected or even knew this for quite a time.
The thing about the satellite that is watching ObL is BS though, a satellite cannot do that (contrary to what the movies say), because:
a)satellites make photos not movies,
b)they have not the capability to recognize one human being (except this human would be really, really fat)
c)a satellite moves around the earth and though could not follow the movements of one person for long even if a) and b) were the case...

[Seoulstriker]

Seoulstriker wrote:

i forget which is which: the NSA spies in the US and the CIA spies in foreign countries?

The US has a quite a lot of Intelligence Agencies. Counterintelligence is conducted by the FBI, the Intelligence Agencies of the various branches of the US military (coordinated by the Defense Intelligence Agency, DIA).

Foreign Intelligence is mainly conducted by the CIA and by the NSA.
The first is the "classic" spy agency, using both spies and technical means.
The latter is a technical Intelligence Agency which uses practically no spies, but listens to the worldwide communication using listening posts and satelites. It also listens to US communications or has the rights to tap the phones of US citizens, whereas the CIA is strictly forbidden to operate domestically. Additionally the National Security Agency devises codes and cyphers and tries to break those of foreign nations. (Interestingly the NSA is far bigger than the CIA).


As far as bin Laden is concerned, he is allegedly in a region between Afghanistan and Pakistan called "Waziristan" (technically a part of Pakistan but the People leaviung there see that different. This region is quite unaccesible and AL Qaedas are said to feel safe there. In fact, international Intelligence suspected or even knew this for quite a time.
The thing about the satellite that is watching ObL is BS though, a satellite cannot do that (contrary to what the movies say), because:
a)satellites make photos not movies,
b)they have not the capability to recognize one human being (except this human would be really, really fat)
c)a satellite moves around the earth and though could not follow the movements of one person for long even if a) and b) were the case...


ahhhh, thanks for the information. :)

[Sixgun Symphony]

I hope it is true.

Will someone post a link to the story?

[usa320]

a)satellites make photos not movies,
b)they have not the capability to recognize one human being (except this human would be really, really fat)
c)a satellite moves around the earth and though could not follow the movements of one person for long even if a) and b) were the case...


A) is false. Satellites can provide real-time images for some amount of time.
B) Is also false. The satellites in use by the CIA are capable of finding something as small as a grapefruit in an area the size of Los Angeles, and are able to classify it as a grapefruit. It would be easier to find Osama bin Laden than other individuals, as hes nearly 7 feet tall, where as most afghans are between 5.5-6 feet tall. He stands out.
C) Is true. Satellites are in a geosynchrous orbit around the earth, so as earlier stated, they are only able to provide real time imagery for about a minute or so...then analysts must lok at the information they collected, and wait for the next pass.

[ShadowNeo]

Isn't geosynchronous orbit when the sattelite is permanently directly orbiting at the same speed as the earth therefore retaining a geosynchronous location? For example, some weather sattelites I believe are geosynchronous to provide weather for certain regions. As far as im aware, sattelites can be both geosynchronous and can orbit at different speeds/orientations to that of the earth.

[Argyll]

a)satellites make photos not movies,
b)they have not the capability to recognize one human being (except this human would be really, really fat)
c)a satellite moves around the earth and though could not follow the movements of one person for long even if a) and b) were the case...


A) is false. Satellites can provide real-time images for some amount of time.
B) Is also false. The satellites in use by the CIA are capable of finding something as small as a grapefruit in an area the size of Los Angeles, and are able to classify it as a grapefruit. It would be easier to find Osama bin Laden than other individuals, as hes nearly 7 feet tall, where as most afghans are between 5.5-6 feet tall. He stands out.
C) Is true. Satellites are in a geosynchrous orbit around the earth, so as earlier stated, they are only able to provide real time imagery for about a minute or so...then analysts must lok at the information they collected, and wait for the next pass.



Shame they couldn't find these Chemical and Biological warheads that were supposedly being moved to Iran and Syria then,as they're a damn sight bigger than grapefruits!!

[California Joe]

I ain't sayin nothing..

Listen to Argyll.

[ariweiner]

To my knowledge, OBL has been "surrounded" no less than 4 times. I'll believe it when he's already captured and in our hands.

[khukuri]

I dont doubt they´ll catch him, sooner or later. But the thingy with the satelites seem a bit hyped up bs.

I think one shouldnt take anything media says about technical military issues as true sence they often make huge mistakes and hype things up. Maybe they have UAV frequently flying over to check their movement. They maybe dont need to watch him all the time, eat **** and drink.

Just speculating here

[Spleen]

Isn't geosynchronous orbit when the sattelite is permanently directly orbiting at the same speed as the earth therefore retaining a geosynchronous location? For example, some weather sattelites I believe are geosynchronous to provide weather for certain regions. As far as im aware, sattelites can be both geosynchronous and can orbit at different speeds/orientations to that of the earth.

That is correct. Many satellites do not move with respect to the earth, IE stay in a fixed position above it.

[khukuri]

damit, mistake

[Kitsune]

usa320:

Sorry...but you are wrong.

to a):While it is of course possible to mount a camera on a satellite, those that make "movies" cannot make high resolution photos that can discern a single human being. You can see cloud covers moving or something.

to b): The theoretical maximum of resolution for photos (due to athmospheric distortions) is in 5 to 10 cm range. Even if US Satelites would reach that maximum it is still impossible to identify a face (even if the man looks up at precisely the moment the photo was made). The story with the grapefruit is plainly wrong. The very best optic could perhaps see it as a point, but not identify it (In fact I doubt it). If satellites had those abilities the movies ascribe to them, well, the USA would be near ominiscient...one could even use these things to find criminals. It would be hardly understandable that they can mess up as they did with Iraqi WMDs, can it?

to c): I am sorry, but Spy Satellites are NOT in a geosynchronous orbit. Whoever told you that, told you BS. This geosync orbit is over the equator only and 36000 km high! Much to high for a spy-satellite. In this Orbit it would be actually possible to watch over someone the whole time...cause it means the satellite is always over the same point...only that its damn wide out in space!
But spy satellites are in orbits, which are usually only 250 to 300 km high (not 36000km !) which are very fast moving orbits in fact.

[khukuri]

thanks kitsune, informative

Keep up the interesting discussion guys.

[navylt]

I'll tell you now that this story is not true. I think I'd see this kind of movement were we surrounding him. I also wouldn't be posting if I knew we were around him, since that would be classified.

[California Joe]

Oh sure, bring LOGIC into it.

[navylt]

Oh sure, bring LOGIC into it.

No, this has more to do with where I'm deployed than logic.

[Argyll]

Oh sure, bring LOGIC into it.

No, this has more to do with where I'm deployed than logic.

I didn't know they had US Navy guys with the British press ? ;)

[navylt]

Touche!