Bin Laden 'boxed in' by US soldiers #2

[Uncle Sam]

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,8754564%255E401,00.html


OSAMA bin Laden is reportedly surrounded by United States special forces in a mountain range that straddles north-west Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Internationally respected investigative journalist and author Gordon Thomas says the al-Qaida terror group leader has been sighted for the first time since 2001 and is being monitored by satellite.

In a report to be published in a British newspaper, Thomas says bin Laden is in a mountainous area to the north of the Pakistani city of Quetta.

The region is said to be a stronghold for bin Laden supporters and the terror kingpin is estimated to have 50 of his fanatical bodyguards by his side.

Thomas attributes his report to "a well-placed intelligence source" in Washington who is quoted as saying: "He (bin Laden) is boxed in."

The area makes an all-out conventional military assault impossible, according to the report.

The plan to capture him would depend on a "grab-him-and-go" operation.

"US helicopters already sited on the Afghanistan border will swoop in to extricate him," the report says.

It continues by saying bin Laden and his men "sleep in caves or out in the open".

"The area is swept by fierce snow storms howling down from the 3000m-high mountain peaks. Donkeys are the only transport."

The US special forces are "absolutely confident" there is no escape for bin Laden and are waiting for the order to snatch the shadowy terrorist leader.

The timing of that order will ultimately depend on President George Bush, the report says.

"Capturing bin Laden will certainly be a huge help for him as he gets ready for the election.

"It will be an even bigger bonus than getting Saddam."

The article goes on to say bin Laden's movements are continually monitored by a US National Security Agency satellite positioned over the land in which the wealthy Saudi is trapped.

Joint chiefs of staff chairman General Richard Myers said last week the US had been engaged in "intense" efforts to capture bin Laden.

But General Myers insisted that the focus of the search had not narrowed for months.

"There are areas where we think it is most likely he is, and they remain the same," he said. "They haven't changed in months."

Asked where bin Laden was hiding, General Myers said: "We think in that border region somewhere. We don't know precisely."

Bin Laden's whereabouts were discovered, according to the report, when US Central Intelligence Agency analysts – geographers and soil experts – studying the background in the al-Qaida boss's latest video suggested it matched rocks in the Toba Kakar ranges.

CIA agents, working with Pakistani guides, went from Afghanistan to the region to take photographs and bring out rock and soil samples.

These were flown to Washington where the CIA analysts electronically matched them to the video background.

A two-man special forces surveillance unit infiltrated the area.

"Within a week, they had picked up the first clues that bin Laden was around," according to a source quoted in the report.

"Other teams then slipped into the area.

"No helicopters were used, to avoid any alert."

Once the area was sealed, the special forces troops watched and waited for the order to go in and end the largest manhunt in history.

Bin Laden, head of the fanatical Muslim al-Qaida group, is alleged to have masterminded the September 11, 2001, terror attacks on New York and Washington.

[usa320]

God i hope this is true... I want to put a Louisville Slugger to that bastards crotch.

[EvanL]

God i hope this is true... I want to put a Louisville Slugger to that bastards crotch.
Well then sign up and maybe you will get a chance to.

[Vance]

Hmm, where do I sign up?

[Operation Ivy]

So wait theres 3 articles two saying we got him surrounded and one saying we dont, which one do i beilieve!!!

[SEALInTheMaking]

I hope that reports right. Please let them get that piece of crap.

[Merik]

I just want to see his f*#$ing head on a platter.

[George W. Bush]

There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive'

[EvanL]

There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive'theres also an old saying.
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice.....uhhhh...uhhhhhh.. it wont happen again.
;)

[memphiz]

So wait theres 3 articles two saying we got him surrounded and one saying we dont, which one do i beilieve!!!
innie minnie miny mo...

[usa320]

Well then sign up and maybe you will get a chance to.



AS much as i would want to dismember the idiot, i think that right should fall upon the loved ones of the folks he murdered.

Assuming we capture him alive and bring him here...

If thats not possible, a 5.66 in his forehead would be fine.

Nice to see "George W. Bush" posting here. rofl

whose next? **** Cheney?

[scm77]

I hope that is true and we get that piece of $hit. I think that if they have a chance to take him alive they should... after they shoot him a couple of times in the legs. God I hope this is true. If they do catch him I would like to congratulate George W Bush on winning another term in office.

:bash: :-*$ :fork: :D

[Argyll]

Big deal,the Aussies and the Brits had him in their sights 2 years ago,only for the beurocracy of the capture being given to the US,allowed him to escape.
He could have been in custody back then.

However if it's the case that this is legit it's good news,but I'd be suspicious of anything intelligence states these days!!

[duck]

President Musharraf is a dead man walking if American troops capture Bin Laden in Pakistan. Better to have a cover story and let Pakistani intelligence get the official honor. Then some Saudi cleric declaring him a traitor of Islam and voilá, his wings might be clipped.

[Merik]

If thats not possible, a 5.66 in his forehead would be fine.


Its 5.56 genius.

[German_American]

I hope this is true I havn't heard this on any news channels yet.

[BlackRain]

Big deal,the Aussies and the Brits had him in their sights 2 years ago,only for the beurocracy of the capture being given to the US,allowed him to escape.
He could have been in custody back then.

However if it's the case that this is legit it's good news,but I'd be suspicious of anything intelligence states these days!!

What the hell are you talking about?

I know it is Saturday night but should not really type and drink at the same time.

In other words, what is your proof for your statement that the Australian's and British troops had Bin Laden?

[SFontaine]

Big deal,the Aussies and the Brits had him in their sights 2 years ago,only for the beurocracy of the capture being given to the US,allowed him to escape.
He could have been in custody back then.

However if it's the case that this is legit it's good news,but I'd be suspicious of anything intelligence states these days!!

Source?

[Argyll]

Big deal,the Aussies and the Brits had him in their sights 2 years ago,only for the beurocracy of the capture being given to the US,allowed him to escape.
He could have been in custody back then.

However if it's the case that this is legit it's good news,but I'd be suspicious of anything intelligence states these days!!

Source?
Classified!!

[Argyll]

Big deal,the Aussies and the Brits had him in their sights 2 years ago,only for the beurocracy of the capture being given to the US,allowed him to escape.
He could have been in custody back then.

However if it's the case that this is legit it's good news,but I'd be suspicious of anything intelligence states these days!!

What the hell are you talking about?

I know it is Saturday night but should not really type and drink at the same time.

In other words, what is your proof for your statement that the Australian's and British troops had Bin Laden?

In their sights,is not the same as in their possesion!!

[Jack Mehoff]

Big deal,the Aussies and the Brits had him in their sights 2 years ago,only for the beurocracy of the capture being given to the US,allowed him to escape.
He could have been in custody back then.

However if it's the case that this is legit it's good news,but I'd be suspicious of anything intelligence states these days!!

rofl rofl

*puts on my tin foil hat*

[California Joe]

He's right. You can believe or not but he's right

[EvanL]

Well then sign up and maybe you will get a chance to.



AS much as i would want to dismember the idiot, i think that right should fall upon the loved ones of the folks he murdered.

Assuming we capture him alive and bring him here...

If thats not possible, a 5.66 in his forehead would be fine.

Nice to see "George W. Bush" posting here. rofl

whose next? **** Cheney?Okay i can do **** Cheney

My left arm is tingling.. Whats that pain in my chest? Dubya make me a sandwhich.

[Vance]

Dubya doesn't speak when Cheney drinks water. Check that **** out.

[Jack Mehoff]

He's right. You can believe or not but he's right

Let's pretend Argyll was right. It doesn't take TWO years for Brits/Aussie to make a call to US's command in A-Stan so they can fly in and drop a company of U.S. Special Forces

[Argyll]

He's right. You can believe or not but he's right

Let's pretend Argyll was right. It doesn't take TWO years for Brits/Aussie to make a call to US's command in A-Stan so they can fly in and drop a company of U.S. Special Forces

who said it took 2 years to make the call?
They made the call when it happened 2 years ago,as it unfolded only to be told to stand firm Jack.........Political decisions mate

[EvanL]

He's right. You can believe or not but he's right

Let's pretend Argyll was right. It doesn't take TWO years for Brits/Aussie to make a call to US's command in A-Stan so they can fly in and drop a company of U.S. Special Forceswell it wouldnt have been the first time the U.S. waited two years before getting involved ;)

You have to understand that this probably happened in a very high up area in Afghanistan. The area where the Al-Qaeda/taliban were hiding was practically inaccessible by helicopter. It wouldnt be so easy.

[Jack Mehoff]

nm...i didn't read your previous post in 2 page

[Jack Mehoff]

He's right. You can believe or not but he's right

Let's pretend Argyll was right. It doesn't take TWO years for Brits/Aussie to make a call to US's command in A-Stan so they can fly in and drop a company of U.S. Special Forceswell it wouldnt have been the first time the U.S. waited two years before getting involved ;)

You have to understand that this probably happened in a very high up area in Afghanistan. The area where the Al-Qaeda/taliban were hiding was practically inaccessible by helicopter. It wouldnt be so easy.

WTF?!

[EvanL]

He's right. You can believe or not but he's right

Let's pretend Argyll was right. It doesn't take TWO years for Brits/Aussie to make a call to US's command in A-Stan so they can fly in and drop a company of U.S. Special Forceswell it wouldnt have been the first time the U.S. waited two years before getting involved ;)

You have to understand that this probably happened in a very high up area in Afghanistan. The area where the Al-Qaeda/taliban were hiding was practically inaccessible by helicopter. It wouldnt be so easy.

WTF?!
Its a WW2 joke. i could have done the WW1 joke but i would have had to add on another year. AAnd it wouldnt have worked out quite the same.

[Skaman]

He's right. You can believe or not but he's right

Let's pretend Argyll was right. It doesn't take TWO years for Brits/Aussie to make a call to US's command in A-Stan so they can fly in and drop a company of U.S. Special Forceswell it wouldnt have been the first time the U.S. waited two years before getting involved ;)

You have to understand that this probably happened in a very high up area in Afghanistan. The area where the Al-Qaeda/taliban were hiding was practically inaccessible by helicopter. It wouldnt be so easy.

WTF?!
Its a WW2 joke. i could have done the WW1 joke but i would have had to add on another year. AAnd it wouldnt have worked out quite the same.



39-41. Thats two years, but it was 'DECEMBER' of 41, nearly a whole three years they waited out the war. But thanks yanks, we needed ya. p-)

[Ratamacue]

September '39 to December '41. That's closer to 2 years than 3, duc. Nice try though.

[George W. Bush]

Where is your proof, Jack? Oh, you have none? That's what I thought.

[Jack Mehoff]

Where is your proof, Jack? Oh, you have none? That's what I thought.
eh? what?

[George W. Bush]

Where is your proof, Jack? Oh, you have none? That's what I thought.
eh? what?

Jack, noun / dZak/ 1. c. Used as a form of address to an unknown person. colloq. (orig. US). L19.

[Jack Mehoff]

Mr. Bush,

What proof do you want from me? :lol:

[George W. Bush]

:cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli:

The gentleman who said that Australian intelligence had Osama bin Laden

[Jack Mehoff]

:cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli:

The gentleman who said that Australian intelligence had Osama bin Laden

Take out the word "Jack" and replaces it with "Argyll" :lol:


Where is your proof, Jack? Oh, you have none? That's what I thought.

[usa320]

If i had a few thousand bucks, an M-16 and a plane ticket to Kabul....

p-)

[cut]

In a report to be published in a British newspaper, Thomas says bin Laden is in a mountainous area to the north of the Pakistani city of Quetta

this is the newspaper all the reports mention

http://www.express.co.uk/pixfeed/express.gif

intrestingly enough they say SAS and not US soldiers. hmmmm

[Trigger]

do-me-in-the-ass19 wrote:

39-41. Thats two years, but it was 'DECEMBER' of 41, nearly a whole three years they waited out the war. But thanks yanks, we needed ya.

Who's we?

Oh, I forgot you have a small rodent stuffed up your ass, so you are correct in using 'we'.

Carry on :roll:

[budanski]

In a report to be published in a British newspaper, Thomas says bin Laden is in a mountainous area to the north of the Pakistani city of Quetta

this is the newspaper all the reports mention

http://www.express.co.uk/pixfeed/express.gif

intrestingly enough they say SAS and not US soldiers. hmmmm

CIA's SAS ;)

[hood]

For all those uninitiated I'll answer the question that I think was asked, it's so hard to figure out if it was as the insults are clouding my vision. We were very close to having Bin Laden back in 2002 when he was heard over the short range radio in Tora Bora. The problem is that somebody delegated the attack on the area to the Northern Alliance troops for Allah/God/Shiva knows what reason. They ended up not doing much because too many of them (it turns out) didn't really want to kill or capture Bin Laden because they had some admiration for the dude. So, he slipped away through the mountains, most likely using tunnels. It was the big blunder of Enduring Freedom to date. Luckily we won't have to work with those guys again in any new operation concerning Bin Hidin'.

[Argyll]

:cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli:

The gentleman who said that Australian intelligence had Osama bin Laden

Not Aussie Intelligence but Aussie SAS,same as it was the UK SBS who had him in their sights at Tora Bora.

They were ordered to leave the capture to US SOF,but by the time they(USSOF) appeaeared OBL had " vanished " and yet another opportunity to capture him was squandered due to politics interfering in Operations

[Salty Dog]

In a report to be published in a British newspaper, Thomas says bin Laden is in a mountainous area to the north of the Pakistani city of Quetta

this is the newspaper all the reports mention

http://www.express.co.uk/pixfeed/express.gif

intrestingly enough they say SAS and not US soldiers. hmmmm

am i right in assuming that is an english paper? :P

[Argyll]

In a report to be published in a British newspaper, Thomas says bin Laden is in a mountainous area to the north of the Pakistani city of Quetta

this is the newspaper all the reports mention

http://www.express.co.uk/pixfeed/express.gif

intrestingly enough they say SAS and not US soldiers. hmmmm

am i right in assuming that is an english paper? :P

No need to assume mate, it is!

[California Joe]

PAGE 3! PAGE 3! PAGE 3! PAGE 3! PAGE 3! PAGE 3!

[hood]

An english paper that apparently thinks that getaway vacations are 77% as important as a catching bin laden article. As one of my friends pointed out, there's a reason why none of the major outlets have mentioned anything about this. Nothing on CNN, nothing on BBC, nothing on Fox News or any other reputable site. One person said "Isn't that a tabloid?" How credible is this thing?

Garden Slug <<==||================>> Truth

[California Joe]

Thus the sarcastic intent of the Bin Laden in Argyll's kilt thread....

[Argyll]

An english paper that apparently thinks that getaway vacations are 77% as important as a catching bin laden article. As one of my friends pointed out, there's a reason why none of the major outlets have mentioned anything about this. Nothing on CNN, nothing on BBC, nothing on Fox News or any other reputable site. One person said "Isn't that a tabloid?" How credible is this thing?

Garden Slug <<II==================>> Truth

More like this Hood ;)

It's the only tabloid running with this story here in the UK,there is zero coverage on any UK networks,so I'd be willing to bet it's all a load of ****e.
Where they got their info is got to be questioned,as something of this magnitude would be picked up by other sources,to be honest I would not be surprised if they just got whif of what happened a few years back!

[Upfrontreporting]

Merik wrote:


Quote:
If thats not possible, a 5.66 in his forehead would be fine.



Its 5.56 genius.



well any caliber would be satisfying.


regards.

[Haiw]

Like 6mm BB?

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

[mustamato]

If US knows where he is I don´t think they will catch him yet, or they would
atleast not made it public that they did. Bush wants those news in the end
of the election campaign so that people will vote for him. Thus, since I´m a
Kerry-supporter I hope he will be catched (if possible) first when Bush is gone
and Kerry is the man.

[hood]

Ralph Nader just announced that he'll run for president as an independent. Any chance Kerry had of being president just went out the window.

[Argyll]

Who's ralph Nader for us Non Americans ?

[hood]

He ran in the last election in 2000 and stole enough votes away from the Democrats to make the numbers 50/50 where Bush won by only thousands of votes and an electoral college technicality. Nader's been around for a very long time as a consumer advocate who's actually done a lot of good by exposing wrongs that evil corporations have done while staying reasonable and usually moderate about his views.

[farmgirl]

Who's ralph Nader for us Non Americans ?

Here you go......


http://www.ralphnader.org/

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040222/ap_on_el_pr/nader&cid=694&ncid=716

Ralph Nader Announces Run for Presidency
20 minutes ago

By SAM HANANEL, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Consumer advocate Ralph Nader (news - web sites) announced Sunday he will run again for the presidency, declaring that Washington has become "corporate occupied territory" and arguing there is too little difference between the Democratic and Republican parties.

Nader, who will turn 70 this week, said he contemplated retirement but decided against that. "I've decided to run as an independent candidate for president," he announced on NBC's "Meet The Press."

"This country has more problems and injustices than it deserves," Nader said, bemoaning a "democracy gap." He said he needed to get into the race to "challenge this two-party duopoly."

"There's too much power and wealth in too few hands," he said. "They have taken over Washington."

"Washington is now corporate occupied territory," Nader said. "There is now a for-sale sign on most agencies and departments. ... Money is flowing in like never before. It means that corporations are saying no to the necessities of the American people. ... Basically, it's question of both parties flunking."

Asked if he would withdraw if he concluded his candidacy would merely ensure President Bush (news - web sites)'s re-election, Nader told interviewer Tim Russert, "When and if that eventuality occurs, you can invite me back on the program and I'll give you the answer."

Nader decided against running under the banner of the Green Party. His candidacy four years ago has been blamed by many Democrats for costing Al Gore (news - web sites) the election against George W. Bush.

Last week, Democratic National Committee (news - web sites) chairman Terry McAuliffe revealed that he had met with Nader several times urging him not to run.

Asked if he was getting into the race to be a spoiler, Nader replied: "A spoiler is a contemptuous term, as if anyody who dares to challenge the two party system .. is a spoiler, and we've got to fight that. You can't do that from the outside, ... You've got to fight that from the inside as well."

"Let me say, this is going to be difficult," said Nader, who planned a round of interviews after his announcement. "This isn't just our fight. This is a fight for all third parties ... They want to have a chance to compete. This is not a democracy that can be controlled by two parties in the grip of corporate interests."

Third party candidacies have been a greater part of presidential politics in recent years; businessman Ross Perot (news - web sites) twice ran for president, winning 19 percent of the vote in his first try in 1992 against Bill Clinton (news - web sites) and then-President George H.W. Bush.

"It's his personal vanity because he has no movement. Nobody's backing him," New Mexico Democratic Gov. Bill Richardson said Sunday in advance of Nader's announcement.

"The Greens aren't backing him. His friends urge him not to do it. It's all about himself," Richardson told "Fox News Sunday."

"Now, Ralph's made some great contributions to consumer issues over the years, but clearly it's not going to help us," he said. "I don't think he'll have a sizable impact, but it's terrible if he goes ahead because it's about him. It's about his ego. It's about his vanity and not about a movement that supposedly he headed for many years very effectively."

As the Green Party's nominee in 2000, Nader appeared on the ballot in 43 states and Washington, D.C., garnering only 2.7 percent of the vote. But in Florida and New Hampshire, Bush won such narrow victories that had Gore received the bulk of Nader's votes in those states, he would have won the general election.

[Argyll]

Interesting,does it also put a question mark over the chances of Bush's re -election prospects?

[hood]

Interesting,does it also put a question mark over the chances of Bush's re -election prospects?

Nope, because it's usually democrats who will be affected and vote for Nader instead. The republicans are stereotypically seen as taking big money from lobbyists so those against that would vote democratic or in this case, the ultimate dude against soft money, Nader. Of course the irony here is that Kerry has received more corporate lobbyist soft money than any of the other Democratic candidates. So much of what they've accused Bush of, he's guilty of himself.

[cut]

An english paper that apparently thinks that getaway vacations are 77% as important as a catching bin laden article. As one of my friends pointed out, there's a reason why none of the major outlets have mentioned anything about this. Nothing on CNN, nothing on BBC, nothing on Fox News or any other reputable site. One person said "Isn't that a tabloid?" How credible is this thing?

Garden Slug <<==||================>> Truth


indeed, but the point being all the other article have quoted this "british newspaper" as their source

[Argyll]

Sky news in now picking up on this!!

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-12997336,00.html

[Seoulstriker]

BIN LADEN 'CORNERED'

Thousands of Pakistani troops are reportedly preparing to launch a massive raid for al Qaeda suspects into the areas bordering Afghanistan.

News of the raid came as reports claimed that Osama bin Laden had been cornered in north-west Pakistan by British and US special forces.


The Sunday Express claims that the al Qaeda leader and up to 50 henchmen had been trapped in the a mountainous area near the Afghanistan border.

A US intelligence source told the paper: "He is boxed in."

A spokesman for the American Defence Department refused to comment but the newspaper said Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar is believed to be with bin Laden.

The paper's source claimed bin Laden moved into area one month ago, having previously been holed up in a region 150 miles to the south-west.

His latest suspected hiding place is believed to be under surveillance from a spy satellite while British and US special forces await orders to move in, said the paper.

The tribal leaders in the area were last week given a deadline to capture and hand over al Qaeda suspects as well as the local people accused of harbouring them, Pakistani military officials said.

"We have the option to go into action to do the job ourselves after the deadline," Pakistan military spokesman Major General Shaukat Sultan said.

The focus of the manhunt is South Waziristan where many fugitives suspected of involvement in attacks against the US-led coalition and Afghan forces across the border are believed to be hiding.

The US military last week said that an operation was being prepared on both sides of the border.



i can't tell if this is a repost of the 'other' story or new, confirmed news. it would be great if it were true. :)

[Argyll]

I think they are mearly picking up on the Newspaper item.

[Tengu]

Not Aussie Intelligence but Aussie SAS,same as it was the UK SBS who had him in their sights at Tora Bora.

They were ordered to leave the capture to US SOF,but by the time they(USSOF) appeaeared OBL had " vanished " and yet another opportunity to capture him was squandered due to politics interfering in OperationsDon't care who gave the order but he should be shot.

[Merik]

For all those uninitiated I'll answer the question that I think was asked, it's so hard to figure out if it was as the insults are clouding my vision. We were very close to having Bin Laden back in 2002 when he was heard over the short range radio in Tora Bora. The problem is that somebody delegated the attack on the area to the Northern Alliance troops for Allah/God/Shiva knows what reason. They ended up not doing much because too many of them (it turns out) didn't really want to kill or capture Bin Laden because they had some admiration for the dude. So, he slipped away through the mountains, most likely using tunnels. It was the big blunder of Enduring Freedom to date. Luckily we won't have to work with those guys again in any new operation concerning Bin Hidin'.

During the same battle there was a captured AQ member that told the Northen Alliance and US forces that he saw Bin Laden in the Tora Bora mountain region. Hazrat Ali(right name correct?), one of the NA warlords, was even at that battle when Bin Laden was heard over the radio so it was a reliable confirmation.

[fred_engles]

Nope, because it's usually democrats who will be affected and vote for Nader instead. The republicans are stereotypically seen as taking big money from lobbyists so those against that would vote democratic or in this case, the ultimate dude against soft money, Nader. Of course the irony here is that Kerry has received more corporate lobbyist soft money than any of the other Democratic candidates. So much of what they've accused Bush of, he's guilty of himself.
I'm not at all convinced that Nader will be a significant factor on this election. First of all, Nader will be running without the support of any political party - not even the greens - so in most places he won't even be on the ballot. More importantly, the anyone-but-bush factor will be a very strong factor in this election. The 2000 election was perceived by many as a Gore lock anyway (as it should have been, had Gore not run such a terrible campaign) - and therefore many liberals felt they could give their votes to Nader without any consequences. The same simply isn't true any more: I'm a liberal, and run in liberal circles where there was a fair amount of Nader support in 2000 (I was never a Nader-ite). Now, however, even those people I know who still like Nader are pretty-much unanimous that they will vote for Kerry.

With the polls (http://tnr.com/blog/campaignjournal?pid=1350) the way they are now (admittedly, polling this far out doesn't mean very much), dubya looks quite defeatable.

On the Kerry fundraising hypocrisy issue: this article (http://tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040301&s=trb030104).

[budanski]

The "anyone-but-bush" crowd is just a big as the "Dean-Heads."

Special interest is bad when they donate to the Republican party. When they donate to the Democrats, its just that they recognise a superior policy. :roll:

[hood]

This should really be saved for another thread because it's off topic, but the article you mentioned obviously favors Kerry by trying to state facts but then faltering by resulting in opinion. They effectively state that being in the pocket of corporations is worse than being in the pocket of environmental groups or other so called consumer rights groups. I fail to see the difference however as I know too many groups who say they're for the people but are actually just out for themselves and are often fanatical about it.

[budanski]

Right on Hood.

I've always wondered why enviromentalists, abortion activists, labor unions, and other leftist activist groups werent considered "special interests"...

[California Joe]

Cause they do wacky stuff like vote for Nader.

[BlackRain]

An account of the battle of Tora Bora

TORA BORA, AFGHANISTAN - The site of the world's biggest stakeout certainly has all the appearances of a siege. Heavily armed Afghans race up mountain valleys with anti-aircraft guns in tow.

A US Special Forces team, sometimes hiding behind tinted pickup truck windows, directs the operations of the Afghan fighters and target US bombing runs. Together, they have hammered Al Qaeda forces and cleared two major mountain valleys near the Tora Bora cave complex.


But yesterday, after tribal fighters said they captured the last of the Al Qaeda positions, killing more than 200 fighters and capturing 25, there was still no sign of the world's most wanted terrorist - Osama bin Laden. And there were far fewer fighters both captured and killed than were originally thought present.

Could this be called the siege of Tora Bora, or was it something more akin to a sieve? Was bin Laden here, did he die in the bombing, or did he flee days ago?

US Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld arrived in the region yesterday. From the Bagram Airbase, near Kabul, he told troops and reporters that he didn't think the fighting near Tora Bora was over.

"There are people trying to escape, but that gets harder as night falls. The question is, does that mean it's almost over in that area, and I doubt it," Mr. Rumsfeld said.

But near Tora Bora, Haji Zaman Ghamsharik, the eastern alliance defense chief, yesterday proclaimed victory. "This is the last day of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Our men have the situation under control."

The elusive bin Laden

Mr. Ghamsharik said he had no information on the whereabouts of Mr. bin Laden. The Tora Bora region was the last major pocket of Al Qaeda resistance in the country. And a cave where alliance commanders had thought bin Laden might be hiding was the last Al Qaeda holdout.

"There were only six people [inside]," said another alliance commander, Hazrat Ali. "One was killed by our forces, and the others were captured. A few days before today, I had information was here, but now I don't know where he is."

Ghamsharik said several hundred Al Qaeda members routed from their caves may be headed toward the border with Pakistan.

By all accounts, about two-thirds of the original 1,500 to 2,000 of Arabs, Afghans, and Chechens may have fled. Yesterday, Afghan military leaders estimated the number of Al Qaeda fighters remaining inside the two valleys that make up the Tora Bora terror base at 300 to 500.

On Saturday, some 30 Yemenis were caught trying to escape over the mountains into Pakistan's Parachinar area - on the same route that a Saudi Al Qaeda operative alleges that bin Laden took earlier.

The arrests of the Yemenis were the first reported captures on the Pakistani side of the White Mountains in the wake of the attack on Tora Bora. Western-backed Afghan fighters have captured, by their own estimates, about 70 Al Qaeda fighters, most of them fellow Afghans.

In addition to the original number of Al Qaeda fighters, hundreds of Al Qaeda family members have escaped the siege of Tora Bora in the past three weeks. Most of those leaving have tapped into an "underground railway" of sympathetic Afghan families at the base of Tora Bora, whose men had long been on bin Laden's payroll.

Al Qaeda sources said that this same smuggling route, which winds over mule trails both north and south of the famed Khyber Pass, also has been used by injured fighters and some nonmilitary personnel. At least one deal to transport Arabs out of the White Mountain redoubt was overheard two weeks ago by this writer, as it was being made in the lobby of the Spin Ghar Hotel in Jalalabad between a known Al Qaeda sympathizer and one of the top two warlords in town.

Though Mr. Rumsfeld has said that the two dozen or so US Special Forces are helping to block exit routes, that number of US military personnel can only be considered a token of the real figure needed to cut off all the mountain passes surrounding the mountain enclave. The number of possible passes is in the dozens, if not the hundreds.

Abu Jaffar, a stout, long-bearded man, recounted his escape from Tora Bora last week. Relieved because he thought he would soon be free, he sat with his Egyptian wife beside a small stove at the base of the valley in Upper Pachir, an Afghan village just a few miles from where US Special Forces were reported by the Pentagon to have surrounded bin Laden's own cave.

[b]Abu Jaffar's account

Before leaving Upper Pachir that night to reach sanctuary in Pakistan, Mr. Jaffar gave an account that suggested American intelligence both outside and inside Tora Bora was inaccurate.

The Saudi, who had arrived in Jalalabad about six months earlier with a $3 million contribution to the Al Qaeda cause, said he drove in a truck with bin Laden from Jalalabad toward Tora Bora on the night of Nov. 6.

He was present when bin Laden met with several chiefs of the Ghilzi tribe, whose villages straddle the rugged border between Afghanistan and neighboring Pakistan. Some 400 Kalashnikovs were given as "gifts" to the Ghilzi tribesmen. In exchange, the tribesmen promised to help smuggle Afghan and Arab leaders to freedom in Pakistan. It was a quid pro quo that the Ghilzis understood well.

When bin Laden finally decided that remaining inside the embattled Tora Bora terror base had become too risky, he used the same Ghilzi contacts to escape the siege.

"Most of us firmly believe that Osama left to Parachinar in Pakistan days ago," says Abdul Wafi, a lieutenant for Commander Ghamsharik. Eight Afghan Al Qaeda prisoners, who surrendered Thursday night, gave similar accounts. They told their captors that bin Laden had left Tora Bora almost two weeks ago.

The current exodus of Al Qaeda fighters from Tora Bora began in earnest when Ghamsharik failed in his own efforts to gain a UN-backed "surrender" for the Al Qaeda fighters.

American officials, who have been highly secretive about relations with the Afghan fighters, were likely incensed to find that Ghamsharik and some of his fellow Khugani tribesmen were offering the Arabs "safe passage" out of Tora Bora.

Afghan sources say that US military officials replaced the ethnic Pashtun leader at the "sharp end" of their military operations with a rival warlord, Hazrat Ali. Mr. Ali claimed only three days ago that he had bin Laden cornered in a cave.

Before any moves were made against Tora Bora two weeks ago, Ghamsharik decided to ask the Arabs in the White Mountains to simply leave their province. Indeed, a senior alliance member, Mujahid Ullah, later appointed as the region's information minister, two weeks earlier had personally persuaded the Arabs to depart Jalalabad without a fight in exchange for "safe passage" into Tora Bora.

"Some of the Arabs were arguing to stay and fight, but Mujahid Ullah was persuading Osama to go and not to resist," says Babrak Khan, who was present two days before the fall of the Taliban in Jalalabad a month ago. "After a long discussion, he agreed to go."

The battle for Tora Bora finally got under way a full week after newspapers published accounts of bin Laden entering Tora Bora with his closest aids.

Ghamsharik - the most senior Afghan military commander - said two weeks ago, that he was launching the offensive because he had no other option. One of the reasons he gave for the attack was, ironically, that stray US bombs had killed 140 Afghan villagers, including some of his own fighters, in the villages at the foot of Tora Bora. "My people are angry at me for what has happened, but they will fight alongside me and get killed in greater numbers than US airstrikes have already killed," he added.

And last week, Ghamsharik could be overheard asking Al Qaeda fighters over a radio to "surrender or leave." The Al Qaeda fighters demanded Ricky Martin and George Michael concert tickets in exchange for laying down their arms. Befuddled special operations forces granted the fighters wishes.

Source: http://www.csmonitor.com/2001/1217/p1s1-wosc.html

[hood]

I guess Ronnie Cordova was right.

[duck]

The enviromental groups problem is not just limited to the USA, they are a nuisance also in Brazil, China, Indonesia etc. Maybe the Bush administration could assist those countries in cracking down on the eco-fascists? Think of all the business possibilities without the enviromental restrictions...

[hood]

As as you start making statements like that, all seriousness flies out the window.

[duck]

I believe in Science, not political agendas. The Kyoto treaty was doomed from the beginning, but damn if we cannot do anything for climate and nature. In some decades water will be a luxury commodity in large parts of our Planet, while some areas will literally drown in it.

[cut]

http://www.thevoiceofreason.co.uk/images/No8/DailyExcrement.gif

[Seiyuuki]

My university has our own special interest group..."lobbyists"...in the state's capitol. p-)

[juhae]

"Capturing bin Laden will certainly be a huge help for him as he gets ready for the election. It will be an even bigger bonus than getting Saddam."
Priceless. It's all about politics in the end.

[venture160]

why would bin laden be in the mountains? is he that stupid? this is a place where any movement is carefully watched because it is so scarcely populated. In order to communicate with his cells he would have to send messengers across vast territory that could be spotted. Also take not that all of the major arrests have been made in HUGE cities like karachi, take for example hambali or other high level arrests, why wouldn't bin laden be in such a place where one could blend in easily, and your messengers would be just another person on the street. Would you rather hide out in a huge city or the desolate wilderness where there really isn't any anonymity. Also, if pakistan knows where Bin Laden is, I dont think they would be very reluctant to act on it, or let alone tell us where he is. If we capture bin laden then pakistans own relationship with the United States will not be as uselfull to us anymore, and we might begin to take things like their selling of nuclear secrets with a little more attention,this gives pakistan incredible lee way to deal with is. I personally would not trust pakistan, seeing as they supported the Taliban, because the taliban was against the mujahadeen and pakistan hated the mujahadeen they both had common enemies. PLUS it is widely known that pakistani nuclear scientis most likely gave nuclear material or even a bomb to Al Queda, this is what daniel pearl, the wall street journal writer was reporting about before he was killed by pakistani intelligence!
I personally think its bogus that we think he's hiding in the frontier region, But im sure people in the CIA and on task force 121 are well aware of this, but you can't exactly have overt military action inside pakistani cities. Don't expect anything to come from this military operation. It is my whole hearted opinion that we will see pakistan hand over bin laden before election time to help keep its american friend, the bush administration in power. The capture of bin laden holds enormous political power, but its consequences in actually fighting terror at this point are minimal, because it is now believed that bin laden recently hasn't really been the architecht of individual plans, rather its cells acting upon his influence. Even Massoud, the northern alliance commander that was killed the day before 9/11 had repeatedly told CIA operatives before 9/11 that just going after bin laden wouldn't solve the problem.