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View Full Version : Is this true: 9mm - the Wunder Round?



ogukuo72
01-18-2006, 05:41 AM
A Norwegian gunmagazine, VapenJournalen, got their hands on a mysterious litte russian pistol called PSM. It about the size of a PPK but slimmer. This pistol in cal. 5.45X18 was developed to kill people wearing bodyarmour. The people at VJ wanted to test the PSM to see if the roumours were true.
While they were at it they tested regular handgunrounds as well. The bullets were fired at layers of kevlar from bodyarmour. The results are going to be depressing for some...

Penetration, nr. of kevlarlayers penetrated:

.22LR: 0 layers
.32ACP Silvertip: 0 "
.32ACP GECO FMJ: 0 "
.38spec. +P FMJ: 0 "
.45ACP 230Fed HS: 0 "
.45ACP 230 FMJ: 0 "
.44mag Norma240HP:6 "
.44mag Fed HS: 7 "
9mm FFV NATO: 15 "
9mm Swe.M39B FMJ:65 "
5.54X18PSM: 49 "

The swedish 9mm M39B has a very heavy steeljacket that does not deform on impact. This round is Second Chance's nightmare and they know it. The bullet on the PSM has a squared off steelcore inside the jacket that cuts trough the kevlarfibers.

I got this off a website. If it is true, then the 9mm M39B round is truly impressive in terms of soft-armor piercing capability! It can effectively pierce a Level IIIA vest (~30+ layers) as well as the 5.7mm or 4.6mm.

Tony Williams
01-18-2006, 05:51 AM
Even better are likely to be the Russian 9x19 and 9x21 AP rounds, which have a hard steel core separated from the rest of the bullet by a polyethylene sleeve. On impact with armour, the rest of the bullet is stopped but the core drills through by itself. Penetration of the 9x21 is claimed to be two 1.2 mm titanium plates plus 30 layers of Kevlar at 30 m.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

Luno
01-18-2006, 06:03 AM
The Swedish 9mm M39B is a good round (= one of the best 9mm round out on the market p-)


m/39B is the 9mm ammunition used today. It was delivered in the beginning of 1955. It has a extra ordinary thick jacket that prevents it from deforming easily, and that makes it better in penetrating hard targets. Some examples: It goes through 50 layers of kevlar or 20 cm of wood or 7 cm of brick. The jacket of the projectile also leads to a higher tear and wear on the weapon. Some figures point at up to 25% higher wear on the barrel when using m/39B ammunition compared against normal 9x19 ammunition e.g. m/39.


M/39
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/9184/9x19147aj.jpg

M/39B
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/2567/9x1950km.jpg

dacanadianbomb
01-18-2006, 07:01 AM
I am wondering how long it will take before,lvl4 plates become light and affordable enough, that they will find wide distribution with police.

Thor
01-18-2006, 07:02 AM
What is there to say, m/39B is great. Not all pistols can take the wear though.

Major Maxillary
01-18-2006, 08:06 AM
I'll take the russian stuff ,though.

Thor
01-18-2006, 09:37 AM
To me it seems like the russians are always making claims about future products but end up coming short in tests when they're eventually released.

m/39B is a 50 year old design and designated HP (High Performance) still Bofors says that it penetrates 50 layes of kevlar at 50 meters or a 3 mm steel plate at 75 meters. According to this norwegian magazine it penetrates 65 layers but it doesn't say on what distance.


Even better are likely to be the Russian 9x19 and 9x21 AP rounds, which have a hard steel core separated from the rest of the bullet by a polyethylene sleeve. On impact with armour, the rest of the bullet is stopped but the core drills through by itself. Penetration of the 9x21 is claimed to be two 1.2 mm titanium plates plus 30 layers of Kevlar at 30 m."
Although I'm no expert this doesn't seem that impressive, but nevertheless what you could expect from an AP round. If I'm not mistaking the design is similar to that of the Bofors 5.56/7.62 AP ammuniton that has been around for some 10 years and sold in large quantities to the US Army.

Scottie
01-18-2006, 09:54 AM
Yes rumor does say that it has remarkable penetrating powers against certain specific types of body armour. It is though intended strictly for Soviet security forces, but commercial models are out there. in 6.35mm (0.25ACP)

nice little pistol:

http://www.manebooks.com/firearms/psm.jpg

Luno
01-18-2006, 09:56 AM
the Russian round is made as a AP rounds the Swedish M/39B is a standard 9mm round so if you want to compeer AP round we have a 9mm round made of wolfram AKA Tungsten p-)

Tony Williams
01-18-2006, 10:08 AM
If I'm not mistaking the design is similar to that of the Bofors 5.56/7.62 AP ammuniton that has been around for some 10 years and sold in large quantities to the US Army.

Any hard-cored AP rifle round may ***** off the lead surround and jacket on impact with armour. The difference with the Russian bullets is that they are designed to do this at relatively low impact velocities (high for a pistol because the bullets are very light, but low by rifle standards). They have a stepped nose, wiith the hard core protruding to form the tip and the rest of the bullet forming a 'shoulder' which is where it gets stopped by the armour. The polyethylene sleeve around the core then makes it easy for it to slip out from the rest of the bullet and carry on by itself.

There's a pic here: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/sp-10_9x19E.jpg (from Max Popenker) of the 9x21 AP. It's from his article on Special Purpose Small Arms Ammunition of the USSR and Russia, on my site.

I have a 9x19 AP round in my collection with a 'National' headstamp which has a steel core (almost full-calibre) which protrudes a lot - only a few mm of the jacket are visible above the case mouth. I don't know when it came out but I've had it for many years. However, I don't believe that this core is likely to separate from the thin jacket.

The M993 and M995 AP rifle bullets you mention are of course tungsten cored. Putting tungsten cores into the Russian bullets would notch up their penetration quite significantly, if that were felt to be necessary.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)

ogukuo72
01-18-2006, 09:24 PM
Tony,

IMI produces a 158-gr 9mm sub-sonic loading (Cat No: 30-771-9990) that has a good reputation in penetrating hard obstacles like internal doors and car chasis. However, I've not seen any info on its performance against soft armor. Any idea as to its performance in this regard?

Thanks.

Tony Williams
01-19-2006, 05:39 AM
Sorry, I have no information about that.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk) and discussion forum (http://forums.delphiforums.com/autogun/messages/)