PDA

View Full Version : BAE Carrier Project Threatened



budanski
02-22-2004, 07:56 PM
I'm on a row, more copy-pasting of articles ...


BAE Navy project threatened
Evening Standard (http://www.thisislondon.com/news/business/articles/timid74648?source=)

Tom McGhie, Mail on Sunday

BAE Systems is threatening to ditch a £3bn project to build two aircraft carriers for the Royal Navy if Ministers force it into an unprofitable partnership to expand the contract and build a third carrier for the French.

BAE has told the Ministry of Defence that bringing the French into the project could cause long delays and would upset America, which is providing much of the technology.

The tough line from Britain's leading defence manufacturer could again put it in direct conflict with Downing Street. The Prime Minister is keen to promote a deal to build a third aircraft carrier for the French as a symbol of Britain's European defence commitment.

But a BAE source insisted: 'The Government may be keen for political reasons to allow the French in on this deal, but the reality is that they (the French) will want a slice of the action.

'The project will become severely delayed and the Americans have told us they are not keen to share their technology with the French.'

BAE's robust stance stems from the fact that top executives are angry at what they see as constant Government sniping over cost overruns on major defence procurement projects.

The company also believes the Government is not doing enough to secure fair competition with its rivals. BAE was forced to share work on the carriers with the French group Thales.

'Every defence contract in this country is run on rigorous competitive lines. The French compete and often win major contracts,' said the source.

'We are not against that. But do you really think that Britain would win a major defence contract in France? Of course not. We are up against competition with countries that close their own markets when we want to compete. It is time for a level playing field.'

BAE will send a clear signal to the Government this week that the days of taking on large projects for the sake of prestige are over and that it will only agree to projects that make a profit.

Chief executive Mike Turner will go on the offensive tomorrow when he goes before the Public Accounts Committee.

He is to be questioned about alleged multi-billion cost overruns on the Astute nuclear submarine and the Nimrod reconnaissance aircraft.

One reason for BAE's assertiveness is its success in building up American business. It employs 20,000 workers in the US and last year won more business from the Pentagon than any other foreign company, almost doubling its revenue from this source to £1.13bn.

BAE will reveal its profits this week. They are expected to be about £710m, down from £796m in 2002.

oldsoak
02-23-2004, 12:14 PM
B*gger BAE. I'm really interested to find out what facets of ship design that BAE alleges the US feels it cant share with the French. ( BAE trying to pull a fast one here, I feel. Do they really think the US would give BAE, an overseas commercial competitor, access to the good stuff ? BAe really does have an inflated view of itself. )

DeltaWhisky58
02-23-2004, 12:34 PM
If BAe build our new Carriers, they are doomed from the moment the contracts are signed - when has BAe delivered on time/on budget - ever? From the time of the Nimrod AEW.3 fiasco through Tornado, Typhoon plus naval and ancillery projects down to the SA80, they are a disaster - for goodness sake HMG, let the project go to an outfit who can deliver on time/on budget, and a product THAT WORKS

Kieran
02-23-2004, 01:49 PM
As patriotic as I am in terms of "buy British", I'd rather have the carriers built elsewhere if it means we get them on time and on budget.

oldsoak
02-23-2004, 01:54 PM
BAE = B*gger All Everytime

Trouble is they can deliver on time, on cost and to spec - they certainly do in the civilian sector - look at the design and manufacture of Airbus wings. However their military projects have nothing like the same track record of late and its pretty much down to their damagement, sorry, management.

DeltaWhisky58
02-23-2004, 05:37 PM
That's very true, and the Hawk programme is one of the major post-war successes in the British aviation world - but unfortunately the exception to the rule.

Red_Pill
02-24-2004, 01:01 AM
Guys,

No offense intended, but if not BAE SYSTEMS, then what other UK shipbuilder / major systems integrator can pull-off designing and building an aircraft carrier for the RN? Yarrow Shipbuilders and Vickers Shipbuilding are now both owned/absorbed by BAE.

Is Vosper Thorneycroft a realistic contender at this point? Anyone considering partnering with whoever built the Italian 'Garibaldi' or the Spanish 'Principe de Asturias'?

And as for BAE's track-record... HMS Ocean and the Type-23 class frigates seem to have turned out okay, no? Or are there serious operational problems that haven't made the press here in the USA?

And how is the Type-45 program (Type-42's replacement, if I recall correctly) shaping up?

Just wanted to get your thoughts.

ShadowNeo
02-24-2004, 09:58 AM
BAE have been slacking off because they have had little serious home-based competition, without such competition, there was probably little incentive for them to cut costs/increase efficieny and whatnot.

Now they've had a little kick up the arse though, things should (hopefully) change for the better.

marktigger
02-24-2004, 11:00 AM
its probably more likley they have put in their usual low bid to win the contract. But with no possibility of them delivering it on time or in budget.

tooms
02-24-2004, 11:52 AM
that's lobbying

they don't want to share the budget so they threat the program.

Dassault did something like that in the 80's, france was in the european eurofighter project, dassault and snecma ( design and engines) said they couldn't cooperate, now the Rafale is very expensive and has been delayed.

Vintendo
02-24-2004, 11:09 PM
I thought the French are building their own carriers?