Minutemen Release Video Of Mexican Army Incursion Of U.s. Border

[Jeremiah]

MINUTEMEN RELEASE VIDEO OF MEXICAN ARMY INCURSION OF U.S. BORDER
(SCOTTSDALE, AZ) January 20, 2006 – The Minuteman Civil Defense Corps (“MCDC”) announced the release today of video footage of an incursion by a unit of the Mexican army across the U.S. border in Arizona.


CLICK HERE TO WATCH THE VIDEO http://minutemanhq.com/mexmilvid.php
Chris Simcox and a group of Civil Defense Corps volunteers encountered a squad of approximately eight armed Mexican soldiers about 500 yards inside American territory.

The Mexican soldiers started running back through the brush to Mexico when they realized they had been spotted.

The video shows a uniformed Mexican soldier climbing through a barbed wire fence on American soil to return to the Mexican side of the border as he races to catch up with the other Mexican soldiers who had also climbed back through the fence as they retreated back into their country.

The soldiers raced up a hill to a group of abandoned buildings at a ranch where military transport vehicles with more soldiers were located.

A group of armed Mexican soldiers then returned to the barbed wire fence (on American soil) and confronted Simcox and the volunteers. A discussion in Spanish ensued, with the agitated soldier ‘in charge’ saying the Americans had no business being there.

Simcox and the volunteers did not budge. The Mexican soldiers left and drove off. Judging from earlier activity observed at the ranch that morning, Simcox is of the belief that a trafficking operation had been disrupted by the volunteers.

The footage, filmed in 2004, was sent to then Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge. His office did not respond. The video has remained in the Minuteman video archive and is being released in response to recent news reports that over 200 cross-border incursions by the Mexican army have been documented since 1996.
www.minutemanhq.com . . .

[mudbunny]

They're transporting people across? No way. Get the hell out of here. As I stated in a previous thread, just because you don't cross a border with tanks and soldiers doesn't mean that you can't invade. Don't bother telling this current administration though, there is no problem here (sarcasm). Now we know why Bush doesn't like the idea of people stationing themselves on the border and setting up observation posts, they just might see something that they're not supposed too.

[PaulClift]

Its not like the Americans ever invaded anyone :D

[a_very_ex_STAB]

MINUTEMEN RELEASE VIDEO OF MEXICAN ARMY INCURSION OF U.S. BORDER
(SCOTTSDALE, AZ) January 20, 2006 – The Minuteman Civil Defense Corps (“MCDC”) announced the release today of video footage of an incursion by a unit of the Mexican army across the U.S. border in Arizona.


CLICK HERE TO WATCH THE VIDEO http://minutemanhq.com/mexmilvid.php
Chris Simcox and a group of Civil Defense Corps volunteers encountered a squad of approximately eight armed Mexican soldiers about 500 yards inside American territory.

The Mexican soldiers started running back through the brush to Mexico when they realized they had been spotted.

The video shows a uniformed Mexican soldier climbing through a barbed wire fence on American soil to return to the Mexican side of the border as he races to catch up with the other Mexican soldiers who had also climbed back through the fence as they retreated back into their country.

The soldiers raced up a hill to a group of abandoned buildings at a ranch where military transport vehicles with more soldiers were located.

A group of armed Mexican soldiers then returned to the barbed wire fence (on American soil) and confronted Simcox and the volunteers. A discussion in Spanish ensued, with the agitated soldier ‘in charge’ saying the Americans had no business being there.

Simcox and the volunteers did not budge. The Mexican soldiers left and drove off. Judging from earlier activity observed at the ranch that morning, Simcox is of the belief that a trafficking operation had been disrupted by the volunteers.

The footage, filmed in 2004, was sent to then Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge. His office did not respond. The video has remained in the Minuteman video archive and is being released in response to recent news reports that over 200 cross-border incursions by the Mexican army have been documented since 1996.
www.minutemanhq.com (http://www.minutemanhq.com) . . .

So this was like 2 years ago that's ancient history

[SPQR]

I live about 20 miles from the US/Mex border, unfortunately this stuff happens on a regular basis. It seems the Mex military and drug/human smuggling cartels are one in the same, the only difference is the Mex military uses equipment paid for by American taxpayers (like me) to facilitate their illegal activities.

[mudbunny]

"So this was like 2 years ago that's ancient history"

Yeah, I'm sure the problem has corrected itself by now right?
(The message above was brought to you by the National Association of Sarcastics Around the World) or NASAW.

[GAFES]

I dont see the bordering line. But if they are crossign it, its obviously wrong, and they must be punished by their zone commander.
What is obvious is that they felt unconfortble with these persons recording them. And they gently approach to these persons explaining them that they are patrolling and they feel uncomfortable. I bet US troops would do the same if some strangers were recording them from the other side of the border.

Oh, and by the way, they dont carry machine guns. They are G3 assault rifles.

[GAFES]

I live about 20 miles from the US/Mex border, unfortunately this stuff happens on a regular basis. It seems the Mex military and drug/human smuggling cartels are one in the same, the only difference is the Mex military uses equipment paid for by American taxpayers (like me) to facilitate their illegal activities.

Yes, your governmet insists so much that they want to cooperate with the mexican military that they dont have other choice than to accept the '' military help''

Overall, i wonder why would the United Sates govermet give military help to Mexico if the army is supossedly crossing illegals, drugs, etc? i don't think the white house and CIA are that stupid.

[Midav]

Oh, and by the way, they dont carry machine guns. They are G3 assault rifles.

Same difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_gun

[Midav]

Yes, your governmet insists so much that they want to cooperate with the mexican military that they dont have other choice than to accept the '' military help''

Overall, i wonder why would the United Sates govermet give military help to Mexico if the army is supossedly crossing illegals, drugs, etc? i don't think the white house and CIA are that stupid.

Some people think it is. I for one think it's stupid that the border is as open as it is. At any given time, we alone hold a number of illegals in our jail and we are just one county (San Juan) in New Mexico.

I have heard several stories ranging from private citizens to border agents that the Mexican military has been spotted inside of the US. If I heard it only from one or two people that would be one thing. But from various sources is another...

And no, I am not anti Mexican. If people can come here legally, more power to them. I don’t care what nationality, race, color or religion they are. Just do it legally and without the help of a foreign army ;)

[mudbunny]

"And they gently approach to these persons "

That's odd that you would add the word "gently" into your statement. I read the same piece that you did and no where did it contain the word "gently". If I' am mistaken, please correct me.
And on another note, it doesn't state that the tropps were alarmed and then confronted the minutemen, it says that...................
"The video shows a uniformed Mexican soldier climbing through a barbed wire fence on American soil to return to the Mexican side of the border as he races to catch up with the other Mexican soldiers who had also climbed back through the fence as they retreated back into their country.

The soldiers raced up a hill to a group of abandoned buildings at a ranch where military transport vehicles with more soldiers were located.

A group of armed Mexican soldiers then returned to the barbed wire fence (on American soil) and confronted Simcox and the volunteers. A discussion in Spanish ensued, with the agitated soldier ‘in charge’ saying the Americans had no business being there."

Why would they retreat back up a significant piece of land and then return to confront the minutemen? If their activity was legal then why the paranoia?

[Omaha]

This might (MIGHT) not be Mexican sponsored. There is wide spread corruption in Mexico. The kidnaping rings and drug cartels of South America are making their impacts.

Throw enough money at the right people, they will do anything for you.

[mudbunny]

That's true also.

[Midav]

This might (MIGHT) not be Mexican sponsored. There is wide spread corruption in Mexico. The kidnaping rings and drug cartels of South America are making their impacts.

Throw enough money at the right people, they will do anything for you.

Good point! The Mexican government needs to look deeper into corruption inside the military (and goverment). As said, not the first time I have heard about this and if it's widespread, they need to get in gear!

[BlackRain]

Its not like the Americans ever invaded anyone :D

Negative Rep for you! :)

[Uninen]

Eh? Whats the point? Only ones there that seem to be out of place doing something shady are these assclowns with the cam. The video dont show the Mexicans crossing the US side, they are on the Mexican side of the fence all the time. They arent doing anything else than their jobs, on border patrol.

[Roaming East]

one night just liberally spread AP mines and toe poppers about 100 yrds within our border. If some soldier gets his nads put into orbit he can explain why he felt it prudent to cross into Yanquiland...

[fremen]

Its not like the Americans ever invaded anyone :D

Yeah, especially México! It's not like the US ever invaded México to steal (sorry, I meant to have México "cede") half of its territory.
No, honestly folks, I think that we all owe our lives to the minutemen for foiling Vicente Fox's evil and twisted plan to recuperate all of the land lost by México to the US after the US invasion of 1846-1848. I think that two of the members of the "invasion force" were given the task of capturing California and Nevada, two were going to capture Arizona and Utah, another two New Mexico, Colorado, and lower Wyoming, and the last two were headed for Texas. Yes sir, this mighty invasion force was up to no good I tell you!
Now, would anyone be interested in purchasing some tin foil hats that I'm making in my basement? I think mudbunny can testify as to their effectiveness.

[Wolfpack]

It´s courios, there are a lot of possible scenarios, but we don´t know what´s the real story behind this especific incident so it might be just guessing what those soldiers were doing there.
What we can discuss for surrely is the strange reaction of what we can see, not guess what we can not.

I´ll have to say that most probable is that our troops were just patrolling searching for dead inmigrants or drug cartel personnel hiding in the building, it would be natural to check in there for wounded or left behind people if you were patrolling the desert you would do it also. Most possible they never realised they were inside the US if they were inside wich I trully doubt.

And of course there is the posibility that this guys were a corrupt unit but by the way the officer shows himself and reacts is not possible he wouldn´t even showed his face and those guys would be dead by now.

About the dialogue is not nice or gentle, thats crap all right a few soldiers walking at you with guns is not a gentle way of talking, but is certainly polite, although we never get to see if the minuteman were armed.

But honestly the officer just ask the american guys what are they recording?, they get very nervous and lie to him saying they are media, then a minuteman tell him that they are waiting for inmigrants. The Mexican officer ask him if they are form inmigration and then again they lie at him saying that they are reportes for a news papper. Then again some one says that they are waiting for people to cross (But didn´t our troops just crossed a few minute ago? why they diidn´t say anything?) could it be that is just a radical falming lie?

Then the mexican officer says something I cannot understand until they shot off the Humve (a trully criminal way to operate) he says that they are working security along the frontier, he continiuous saying that they trully feel uncomfortable about being recorded. He finishes saying good bye in a very friendly mexican way and off they go.

In my opinion they fail to covert this incident ina very stupid way with radical and racist bs an a lot of lies. And it´s sad, those guys were doing just a very hard job wich is positive for both countries.

It´s just sad.

[AFJROTC55]

the Minute Men should've just lit em up ON THE SPOT, if those guys were packing, then i have no problem with showin em the welcome wagon, i.e., "WELCOME TO AMERICA, NOW GET THE F**K OUT", they crossed our border with weapons, last i checked that was considered an invasion, drug running, illegal imm smuggling be damned, that is straight up act of war crap right there.

1*

[Wolfpack]

I work for the mexican governament, In defense analisis, I have some clue of what we are talking all right. So next time some one says we are invading the US just because some of our soldiers crossed a few yars into your country doing security border patroll by mistake or even purposely I´ll have to remid them that a lot of your military aircraft do just that and no one gives a damm couse things in this world are not black and white and is no relevant for the existene and sovereing of both countries, It´s very radical way to react.

We do not dennie that there is a corruptin problem but its minimal within army ranks and we do take messures, the problem are the police corps. This is a problem we both governaments must solve using the brains not guns and imaginary white lines coyote and road runner style.

[Wolfpack]

An ho yes I forgot, next time some one says something about human traffic I´ll have to also remind any american fella that is a common practice and a buissnes for some U.S born Citizens to traffic inmigrants, they fake to travel down to México, get payed by some ilegal immigrant and cross him with no mayor problem, we have knwoledge of ilegals being transported as far as Chicago straight from the border.

Corruption is on both sides baby is the same thing as faking that we are the problem and not both of us and that is the worst messure you can take. You all complain about the power drug cartels have and point your fingers at us, but the ones who sustain that market are american addicts. Thats off topic of course, but is a good example.

[fremen]

I live about 20 miles from the US/Mex border, unfortunately this stuff happens on a regular basis. It seems the Mex military and drug/human smuggling cartels are one in the same, the only difference is the Mex military uses equipment paid for by American taxpayers (like me) to facilitate their illegal activities.

That's flat out b.s. I live right on the border and "this stuff" doesn't happen on a regular basis. When it has happened, it is almost always by mistake (like the US military doesn't make mistakes), the result of poorly marked borders, or borders that were marked decades ago. If the Mexican government actually was behind some sort (stupid) plan of having its soldiers enter US territory on purpose, do you think it would send regular infantry to do so? Do you think that México doesn't have military units capable of infiltrating territory without being noticed? I suggest you take a look at some of the pictures that GAFES is kind enough to post on this sight. If they really wanted to do so, 1, they wouldn't be noticed, 2, if they would be noticed by vigilantes like the minutemen, the minutemen wouldn't be around to talk about it. As for your assumption (because that is all that it is), that US taxpayers actually fund Mexico's military, you are flat out wrong. Of all the major Latin American countries, México is probably the one that receives the least amount of US government aid of any sort, especially military aid. US manufactured military equipment that México uses, is purchased primarily with tax payer money, Mexican taxpayer money. One time, I remember, the US actually did donate some military equipment to México back in the 90's, about 70 huey helicopters, which turned out to be in such poor shape that México promptly returned the "gift" to the US and purchased some Russian helicopters that are still flying. So don't flatter yourself, if the US stopped all military assistance to México, it wouldn't make a dent, on the contrary, it would probably benefit Mexican industry.

[fremen]

the Minute Men should've just lit em up ON THE SPOT, if those guys were packing, then i have no problem with showin em the welcome wagon, i.e., "WELCOME TO AMERICA, NOW GET THE F**K OUT", they crossed our border with weapons, last i checked that was considered an invasion, drug running, illegal imm smuggling be damned, that is straight up act of war crap right there.

1*

afjotc55:

You know what? Screw the profits, just send me your address and I'll mail you the tinfoil hat for free! You sound like you really need it.

P.S. Wolfpack is right on target when he says corruption is on both sides of the border, just this friday, in El Paso,Texas (it was in the El Paso Times front page on Saturday) a US border patrolman was indicted of ******ly abusing migrant women from México. He would offer to let them go in exchange for ****** favours. I hope the sick bastard goes to jail and gets to do a lot of favours there. This sort of abuse does happen frequently along the border as do cases of US border patrolmen and customs officers that are caught cooperating with drugsmugglers. The only thing is that in the US these incidents are quickly swept under the carpet.

[Roaming East]

Thats funny cause there seems to be reams of witnessed accounts of border incursions by the Mex army into the US. THIS is just the 1st time its been visualy recorded. Talk to guys stationed at Huachaa or whatever that damn army base is down there and they all say the same thing off the record.

[American Patriot]

Does anyone know what those Mexicans were saying?

[GAFES]

Does anyone know what those Mexicans were saying?


It has being translated a couple of times already. If you just read you wouldnt be posting this type of question that only make you look bad.

[American Patriot]

Where is it translated, mang? I couldn't find it in this thread. Maybe I'm ignoring whoever posted it

[Wolfpack]

Thats funny cause there seems to be reams of witnessed accounts of border incursions by the Mex army into the US. THIS is just the 1st time its been visualy recorded. Talk to guys stationed at Huachaa or whatever that damn army base is down there and they all say the same thing off the record.

You have no basis to probe that they were inborder, just because those radicals say so doesn´t mean they were, and I´ll have to remind you that your american fellas lied to an officer of the Mexican Army who showed up his face and didn´t run or hide or sneak anybody cause they were doing theyr job. Just open your mind alittle bit ok. As I said there is no evidense of criminal behaviour or any irregular in my troopers.

I wonder if you consider that an invasion what would you consider to be the constante violation of our air space by your airfoce aircraft? isn´t that the same ? The difference is that we don´t consider such a violation and act of war, cause we are not narrow minded, and let me tell some of your pilots in trouble some times had to droped a few bombs in México, what can you say about that?



the officer just ask the american guys what are they recording?, they get very nervous and lie to him saying they are media, then a minuteman tell him that they are waiting for inmigrants. The Mexican officer ask him if they are form inmigration and then again they lie at him saying that they are reportes for a news papper. Then again some one says that they are waiting for people to cross (But didn´t our troops just crossed a few minute ago? why they diidn´t say anything?) could it be that is just a radical falming lie?

Then the mexican officer says something I cannot understand until they shot off the Humve (a trully criminal way to operate) he says that they are working security along the frontier, he continiuous saying that they trully feel uncomfortable about being recorded. He finishes saying good bye in a very friendly mexican way and off they go.
This my friend is what they said, and you can doble check with some one who does speak spanish. PLease if you want to discuss with respect in an adult way at least read. We are not making any mock of any of you.

[Roaming East]

Violation of Airspace is slightly different in that there is a large buffer zone in concerns to an aircraft flying in excess of 350Kts at 5 thousand feet or more. No such buffer exist in concerns to military personnel crossing a marked border fence without notifiying their opposites of such action so that excuse doesnt hold water. If US troops did the same thing Mexico would be pissing and moaning about their sovereignty. On to the issue of the volunteers lying to the Mexicans, well no shiat. If i was confronted by armed intruders having been caught in the process of commiting an illegal act i would inflate my story as well. Couple of shmoes with a vid cam? they would still be looking for the bodies. Couple of local media hounds? well that attracts attention so you leave em alone and bug out asap which is exactly what the border crossers did.

[Omaha]

Lets get one thing straight, a "Mexican officer" isn't anyone you trust. Bribes and corruption is rampant throughout that entire country and the rest of the Hispanic countries.

Cancun is the only safe place down there.

[tuercas]

Violation of Airspace is slightly different in that there is a large buffer zone in concerns to an aircraft flying in excess of 350Kts at 5 thousand feet or more. No such buffer exist in concerns to military personnel crossing a marked border fence without notifiying their opposites of such action so that excuse doesnt hold water. If US troops did the same thing Mexico would be pissing and moaning about their sovereignty. On to the issue of the volunteers lying to the Mexicans, well no shiat. If i was confronted by armed intruders having been caught in the process of commiting an illegal act i would inflate my story as well. Couple of shmoes with a vid cam? they would still be looking for the bodies. Couple of local media hounds? well that attracts attention so you leave em alone and bug out asap which is exactly what the border crossers did.

Mexico is considered to be an ally of the US and it is not uncomon for incursions to happen on both sides and then the respective defense authorities be notified after the fact.

i live rigth next to the rio grande , literally about 100 yards away and have many a time seen US Border Patrols boats come up to the mexican side bank of the river looking for someone who has eluded them . Laredo texas police chopers can also fly over the mexican bank of the river from time to time. the rive is narrow and can wind down to about 5 meters across in some places and changes course all the time so there is a mutually agreed buffer zone of about 50 meters or more on each bank where jurisdiciton is more flexible. this is true for the river area with the steep banks on the american side so one can asume that in the open desert areas the buffer areas are more flexible due to very few or easily altered landmarks and rampant banditry.

there are bomb threats on the international bridges all the time and whenever an evacuation of the bridges takes place either mexican police run for shelter on the US side or US border patrol runs to the mexican side both with their firearms so it is not something that is considered an invasion,

i think this incursion is just being blown out of proportions by a group that is not local to the area and seeks more reasons to reinforce the border.

[Wolfpack]

[QUOTE=Omaha]Lets get one thing straight, a "Mexican officer" isn't anyone you trust. Bribes and corruption is rampant throughout that entire country and the rest of the Hispanic countries.

When you grow up come and talk with us adults, mean while go get drunk in cancun people need your dollars over there cause my country and latin countries are not totally corrupt.

[Wolfpack]

Violation of Airspace is slightly different in that there is a large buffer zone in concerns to an aircraft flying in excess of 350Kts at 5 thousand feet or more. No such buffer exist in concerns to military personnel crossing a marked border fence without notifiying their opposites of such action so that excuse doesnt hold water. If US troops did the same thing Mexico would be pissing and moaning about their sovereignty. On to the issue of the volunteers lying to the Mexicans, well no shiat. If i was confronted by armed intruders having been caught in the process of commiting an illegal act i would inflate my story as well. Couple of shmoes with a vid cam? they would still be looking for the bodies. Couple of local media hounds? well that attracts attention so you leave em alone and bug out asap which is exactly what the border crossers did.
NO it is not, that is so tipical of you americans, armed american airdraft constantly violate mexican air space, armed aircraft whith enough fire power to blow out a town. And guess what without permission or notification.

It is exactrly the same thing you cross the border over to mexico armed and without permission. The are no diferences except we in governament dont make drama out of it, and one again you cant probe those soldiers where in the US you have unilateral suspicious and acusation but no proofs at all. So you have a very thin case.

[fremen]

Lets get one thing straight, a "Mexican officer" isn't anyone you trust. Bribes and corruption is rampant throughout that entire country and the rest of the Hispanic countries.

Cancun is the only safe place down there.

You my friend are an ignorant bigot, as big and dumb as they come. I was born and live in the US, and I have traveled extensively throughout México, to many more places than Cancún. How can you assert that Cancún is the only safe place in México if in all probability it is the only place in México you've ever visited? I can tell you this, that México has plenty of very safe places where I would much rather be than many parts of the US.
Also, Mexican Army officers are for the most part well trained (in one of the most prestigious military academies in the hemisphere), very professional and much more worthy of trust than a bunch of lazy, ignorant, xenophobic, racist, radical vigilantes like the minutemen. I have met many of them on remote Mexican Army highway checkpoints throughout México and have never been treated with anything but courtesy and respect, even when I reveal my nationality to them, which is much more than I can say for US customs and border patrol. You would not be worthy to wear their used underwear.

P.S. I think that the minutemen decided to reveal this two year old video to the public (despite the fact that the US gov't didn't think it of any relevance), because no one is paying anymore atention to them. They are fading from the public limelight and wan't attention. Too bad that some people are dumb enough to fall for their antics and lies.

[fremen]

Thats funny cause there seems to be reams of witnessed accounts of border incursions by the Mex army into the US. THIS is just the 1st time its been visualy recorded. Talk to guys stationed at Huachaa or whatever that damn army base is down there and they all say the same thing off the record.

It's called Huachuca, and as far as I'm concerned, the US military doesn't really stock its ranks with very scholarly individuals. Let me put it this way, if I wanted to know something about México, I wouldn't go to the US army for information.
P.S. Who the hell do you think you are lecturing about invasions and respect for national sovereignty when you come from the country that has invaded and violated the sovereignty of more countries than anyone else? Do you want me to give you a list? The vast majority of times it was countries that weren't even a threat to the US. Tell me of one time in history when México invaded any other country, please give me a list.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

"So this was like 2 years ago that's ancient history"

Yeah, I'm sure the problem has corrected itself by now right?
(The message above was brought to you by the National Association of Sarcastics Around the World) or NASAW.

That was minor league sarcasm.
So why don't you just invade Mexico if it's such a big deal. Let's face it you've invaded other countries for less :roll:

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Lets get one thing straight, a "Mexican officer" isn't anyone you trust. Bribes and corruption is rampant throughout that entire country and the rest of the Hispanic countries.

Cancun is the only safe place down there.

In case you hadn't noticed bribes and corruption are of particular interest in Washington DC at the moment too.
Are you seriously saying that American cops never take bribes :roll:

[Omaha]

http://www.isn-inc.com/html/article_10.html

I have pages upon pages people.



The ring of kidnaping and bribery of entire police departments through drug lords and the aforementioned kidnaping rings is widespread throughout South America and the rest of the Hispanic countries.





You my friend are an ignorant bigot, as big and dumb as they come. I was born and live in the US, and I have traveled extensively throughout México, to many more places than Cancún. How can you assert that Cancún is the only safe place in México if in all probability it is the only place in México you've ever visited? I can tell you this, that México has plenty of very safe places where I would much rather be than many parts of the US.
Also, Mexican Army officers are for the most part well trained (in one of the most prestigious military academies in the hemisphere), very professional and much more worthy of trust than a bunch of lazy, ignorant, xenophobic, racist, radical vigilantes like the minutemen. I have met many of them on remote Mexican Army highway checkpoints throughout México and have never been treated with anything but courtesy and respect, even when I reveal my nationality to them, which is much more than I can say for US customs and border patrol. You would not be worthy to wear their used underwear.

P.S. I think that the minutemen decided to reveal this two year old video to the public (despite the fact that the US gov't didn't think it of any relevance), because no one is paying anymore atention to them. They are fading from the public limelight and wan't attention. Too bad that some people are dumb enough to fall for their antics and lies.

Wow, so much anger. Where do I express anything similar to bigotry? Throwing around names doesn't win agreements. And quite frankly, you are "dumb as they come" if you think so (which you obviously do).


my country and latin countries are not totally corrupt.

Hahaha, I bet. You keep thinking that. Mean while talk to the people that are effected by these statistics on drugs.

http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications/factbook/fields/2086.html

Pick your "not totally corrupt" Latin countries out of that fine list.

(Oh and I suggest you start counting the number of times X latin country and X drug are mentioned in the same sentence, you would be shocked)



In case you hadn't noticed bribes and corruption are of particular interest in Washington DC at the moment too.
Are you seriously saying that American cops never take bribes

No, I am not. Matter of fact America never entered the conversation until you brought it up.

You can't possibly compare the two, then again you have said stuff even further out there than that.

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

And America is curruption free?

[Will Clark]

It´s courios, there are a lot of possible scenarios, but we don´t know what´s the real story behind this especific incident so it might be just guessing what those soldiers were doing there.
What we can discuss for surrely is the strange reaction of what we can see, not guess what we can not.

I´ll have to say that most probable is that our troops were just patrolling searching for dead inmigrants or drug cartel personnel hiding in the building, it would be natural to check in there for wounded or left behind people if you were patrolling the desert you would do it also. Most possible they never realised they were inside the US if they were inside wich I trully doubt.

And of course there is the posibility that this guys were a corrupt unit but by the way the officer shows himself and reacts is not possible he wouldn´t even showed his face and those guys would be dead by now.

About the dialogue is not nice or gentle, thats crap all right a few soldiers walking at you with guns is not a gentle way of talking, but is certainly polite, although we never get to see if the minuteman were armed.

But honestly the officer just ask the american guys what are they recording?, they get very nervous and lie to him saying they are media, then a minuteman tell him that they are waiting for inmigrants. The Mexican officer ask him if they are form inmigration and then again they lie at him saying that they are reportes for a news papper. Then again some one says that they are waiting for people to cross (But didn´t our troops just crossed a few minute ago? why they diidn´t say anything?) could it be that is just a radical falming lie?

Then the mexican officer says something I cannot understand until they shot off the Humve (a trully criminal way to operate) he says that they are working security along the frontier, he continiuous saying that they trully feel uncomfortable about being recorded. He finishes saying good bye in a very friendly mexican way and off they go.

In my opinion they fail to covert this incident ina very stupid way with radical and racist bs an a lot of lies. And it´s sad, those guys were doing just a very hard job wich is positive for both countries.

It´s just sad.


I don't know about you, but if I was alone with my friend in the middle of nowhere and I was spying on a possibly corrupt/rogue military unit, I don't think I'd give them any reason to consider it worth while to harm me.

[Roaming East]

And America is curruption free?
nice try, but as far as law enforcement and military accountability goes, odd acts of corruption are the exceptions that prove the rule. The US has a long history of capable and professional adminstrative order and accountability. Thats part of the reason why the country rose to prominence so fast.

[fremen]

Omaha, AKA "His Holiness":
I was looking through that list you provided from the CIA World Factbook, you know, the one with all the corrucpt drug producing nations that includes all those "Hispanic" countries as you like to say. You probably didn't notice that it also included the United States, here is what it says about your so pure and honest country, beacon of honesty:

"consumer of cocaine shipped from Colombia through Mexico and the Caribbean; consumer of heroin, marijuana, and increasingly methamphetamine from Mexico; consumer of high-quality Southeast Asian heroin; illicit producer of cannabis, marijuana, depressants, stimulants, hallucinogens, and methamphetamine; money-laundering center "

Do you notice the phrase "consumer of", and how many types of drugs pop out? You see, if the US wouldn't be the World's #1 drug consuming country, México wouldn't have any drug related problems. The US is as much to blame as any other country (or more) for the world's drug trafficking problem.
Also notice the phrase "illicit producer of", and look at the long list of drugs produced in the U.S. The funny thing is that in México you do hear that the authorities capture the heads of drug cartels (especially in the current administration), and you hear the words "drug cartels". In the U.S. there are no drug cartels and drug lords I suppose, because you never hear of that in the media. You see, once the drugs enter the U.S. or are produced there, they walk by themselves to their intended users (I guess that's what you think).
Also note the phrase "money-laundering center", Omaha and his buddy Roaming East probably think that there is nothing corrupt about this side of the drug business. I think those two kids just spend too much time watching Disney movies and playing video games.

[Roaming East]

Omaha, AKA "His Holiness":
I was looking through that list you provided from the CIA World Factbook, you know, the one with all the corrucpt drug producing nations that includes all those "Hispanic" countries as you like to say. You probably didn't notice that it also included the United States, here is what it says about your so pure and honest country, beacon of honesty:

"consumer of cocaine shipped from Colombia through Mexico and the Caribbean; consumer of heroin, marijuana, and increasingly methamphetamine from Mexico; consumer of high-quality Southeast Asian heroin; illicit producer of cannabis, marijuana, depressants, stimulants, hallucinogens, and methamphetamine; money-laundering center "

Do you notice the phrase "consumer of", and how many types of drugs pop out? You see, if the US wouldn't be the World's #1 drug consuming country, México wouldn't have any drug related problems. The US is as much to blame as any other country (or more) for the world's drug trafficking problem.
Also notice the phrase "illicit producer of", and look at the long list of drugs produced in the U.S. The funny thing is that in México you do hear that the authorities capture the heads of drug cartels (especially in the current administration), and you hear the words "drug cartels". In the U.S. there are no drug cartels and drug lords I suppose, because you never hear of that in the media. You see, once the drugs enter the U.S. or are produced there, they walk by themselves to their intended users (I guess that's what you think).
Also note the phrase "money-laundering center", Omaha and his buddy Roaming East probably think that there is nothing corrupt about this side of the drug business. I think those two kids just spend too much time watching Disney movies and playing video games.
Okay wise guy, since using the search feature seems beyond your skills read my post from this thread and then tell me what my opinion on US drug policy is.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=66679
i'll help you out, my post start on page two...

[ViktorNavorski]

Go Mexico!!! (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=69162&highlight=mexico)

[/sarcasm]

[Omaha]

Omaha, AKA "His Holiness":
I was looking through that list you provided from the CIA World Factbook, you know, the one with all the corrucpt drug producing nations that includes all those "Hispanic" countries as you like to say.

That is what they are...I would call Germany a Germanic country. Italy an Italian country. China an Asian country. Where the hell are you going with this?

You probably didn't notice that it also included the United States, here is what it says about your so pure and honest country, beacon of honesty:

"consumer of cocaine shipped from Colombia through Mexico and the Caribbean; consumer of heroin, marijuana, and increasingly methamphetamine from Mexico; consumer of high-quality Southeast Asian heroin; illicit producer of cannabis, marijuana, depressants, stimulants, hallucinogens, and methamphetamine; money-laundering center "

No, I read that, nothing surprised me there. Then again these aren't government sponsored and in fact, the US government has spent more on FIGHTING drugs then Mexico spends period.

Do you notice the phrase "consumer of", and how many types of drugs pop out? You see, if the US wouldn't be the World's #1 drug consuming country, México wouldn't have any drug related problems. The US is as much to blame as any other country (or more) for the world's drug trafficking problem.

You are so full of **** your eyes are brown. That's like saying you blame the kid for the child abuse.

Also notice the phrase "illicit producer of", and look at the long list of drugs produced in the U.S. The funny thing is that in México you do hear that the authorities capture the heads of drug cartels (especially in the current administration), and you hear the words "drug cartels". In the U.S. there are no drug cartels and drug lords I suppose, because you never hear of that in the media. You see, once the drugs enter the U.S. or are produced there, they walk by themselves to their intended users (I guess that's what you think).

American pot heads and meth dealers in Kansas couldn't in their wildest dreams produce a third as much of the **** that comes out of the south. You would think there would have been a fire by now with all the smoke you are blowing (pun intended)

Also note the phrase "money-laundering center", Omaha and his buddy Roaming East probably think that there is nothing corrupt about this side of the drug business. I think those two kids just spend too much time watching Disney movies and playing video games.

I'll let this fine example of intelligence and enlightenment stand on it's own.

Hmmm, justifying bad behavior with other bad behavior. Real strong argument.

[fremen]

Jesus Christ Omaha! Is your head thick or what? Even your buddy Roaming East (I read his posts) has sense enough to admit that Americans by virtue of their world leadership in the consumption of drugs are greatly responsible for the existence of drug trafficking and the corruption that it spawns.

As for your statements, they are pretty limp, for example:
"the US government has spent more on fighting drugs than Mexico" Wow!!! You have just made a discovery on the scale of rolling bugers. How long did it take you to come up with this one? Do you think it might have anything to do with the economy of the US being roughly eleven times bigger than Mexico's?
or this one (I love it):
"That's like saying you blame the kid for child abuse." Do you mean to say that Americans are so childlike that they don't have the will to resist the temptation of using drugs? Mean-old México just waves a joint in front of poor-old innocent US, and US eats it up. Maybe that explains your low IQ.

As for your resistance to the notion of corruption in the US and among US law enforcement, I found plenty of examples that you might find interesting:
http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2002/sept/border_corruption/
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/009251.html
http://www.desertinvasion.us/articles/art2005may29.html
There's plenty more, let me know if you want them. Of course, I'll only give you the ones in English, for that is the only language that you can probably partially understand.

[Roaming East]

might not want to use a leftist rant piece as a source next time (in regards to the 2nd link)
Not sure if anyone denied corruption in the US cause it exist, Its just that out of the hundreds of thousands of cops in this nation we got like less than 100 cases if your articles are correct? again, the exception that proves the rule that on a whole the police in this nation are nowhere near as corrupt as those south of the border.
Can we all knock it off with the strawman arguments. please?

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Thats just 100 police who have been caught.

Remember everyone has a price tag.

[Roaming East]

just rather be from a place where the price tag isnt that low....

[Omaha]

Jesus Christ Omaha! Is your head thick or what? Even your buddy Roaming East (I read his posts) has sense enough to admit that Americans by virtue of their world leadership in the consumption of drugs are greatly responsible for the existence of drug trafficking and the corruption that it spawns.

As for your statements, they are pretty limp, for example:
"the US government has spent more on fighting drugs than Mexico" Wow!!! You have just made a discovery on the scale of rolling bugers. How long did it take you to come up with this one? Do you think it might have anything to do with the economy of the US being roughly eleven times bigger than Mexico's?
or this one (I love it):
"That's like saying you blame the kid for child abuse." Do you mean to say that Americans are so childlike that they don't have the will to resist the temptation of using drugs? Mean-old México just waves a joint in front of poor-old innocent US, and US eats it up. Maybe that explains your low IQ.



Haha you're so angry. What's with the personal attacks? Like a sniveling child hurling insults on the play ground during recess.


You are right, if there is a Demand there is a Supply and one can't exist without the other. But you make it seem as if America is the sole reason cocain is Colombia's greatest export. If you really believe that, then you are naive beyond belief.

And I never once (unlike I would say 5 other people on this thread) said anything one way or the other about American corruption. Quite frankly that hasn't anything to do with it. I can still say Mexico is corrupt, doesn't matter if America is 10 times worse.

And my point (before you so gracefully misquoted me out of context, a left wing bomb thrower classic) was that America has made more steps to stop drugs, then Mexico, per capita. You can't deny that to any extent.


That line about children was to illustrate that Americans didn't just wake up one day and started demanding cocain from Honduran drug runners. They started it first....then brought it here.

And besides, the PUBLIC reaction and use of drugs has nothing to do with the government's reaction to the drug USE. Which is the real case here. All people use drugs in all countries. But it is when a country doesn't try and stop the use of those drugs is when it is in the wrong.

And now we are right back to the corruption of the countries south of the boarder.

[fremen]

Let me put some things on the table. My point is this, people who live in glass houses should not throw rocks at their neighbors, because if you do, your neighbors will throw them right back at you and hit you right in the head. I will never deny that corruption exists in México or in any other country in the Western Hemisphere. Yes, there is corruption and it is a problem. But, to go from there to the conventionally accepted view of many of you that everything south of the border (it's border, not boarder) is corrupt, evil, ugly, untrustworthy and generally inferior in every way, is just freaking ignorant, prejudiced and bigoted (look up the definitions in your dictionaries before you start crying that I'm using the race card). Not all Mexicans are corrupt, not even all policemen, politicians and even less its armed forces. There are many cases of corruption, but there are also many cases in which this corruption is uncovered, persecuted and punished, and if this is happening it means that there are people doing the investigating, persecuting and punishing (all you have to do is read the front page of any Mexican newspaper). I for one would put my hands in the fire to vouch for the honesty of México's President and Secretary of Defense, among others. They are doing good jobs in fighting drugs and corruption.
The flip side of this argument is that there are many cases of corruption on the U.S. side of the border, and as we've seen, they go from the lowly agent stationed on the border to members of Congress and the Senate. There are also many cases of corruption that go on in the public sector. And if you think that U.S corporations do acts of corruption at home, you should see what they do in the Third World.
Roaming East, I think you didn't read my first source to well, it doesn't say 100 cases amongst hundreds of thousands, it says 53 new cases every year amongst the 15,000 inspectors stationed on the southwest border (2002 numbers). It goes on to say, that those are only the most high-profile cases, because there are limited resources to investigate every allegation. See for yourself:
"Records from INS and the Customs Service show that both agencies combined open an average of 53 new corruption cases a year involving drug or alien smuggling and bribery. And those are only the most high-profile cases, because there are limited resources to investigate every allegation."
As for the price tag being low south of the border, that is just proportional to the size of the salary, its just common sense.

P.S. Omaha, don't worry, I'm not angry, I'm actually having fun with you.
By the way, "boarder" is someone that pays both meals and lodging at another's home.
P.D. I hope that your nickname doesn't imply the place where you live, I have a friend there that says it's boring and plain. He says Omaha is just like you see it in the movie "About Smith." He's ready to commit suicide. Maybe that explains why you sound so frustrated.

[Omaha]

P.S. Omaha, don't worry, I'm not angry, I'm actually having fun with you.
By the way, "boarder" is someone that pays both meals and lodging at another's home.
P.D. I hope that your nickname doesn't imply the place where you live, I have a friend there that says it's boring and plain. He says Omaha is just like you see it in the movie "About Smith." He's ready to commit suicide. Maybe that explains why you sound so frustrated.

Didn't even realized I was typing Boarder instead of Border. I'd call me names too.


No. Born in Jersey live in Pennsylvania. The card game Omaha.