Games modder needing some guidance

[spider_csk]

Im producing a complete conversion of the PC soldier sim Ghost Recon for the 75th Rangers, and im looking for a bit of feed back on the equipment they shoud carry.

Heres what ive come up with so far:
Conventional US BDU
S.P.E.A.R. Body armour
R.A.C.K. webbing
'Point Blank' elbow and knee pads
E.P.S. goggle system or Defender goggles
NOMEX gloves

Would these be worn by 75th Rangers? and if not any ideas of alternatives, im also looking to findout what the current Helmet (PASGT?) and Boots worn by Rangers are.

As for weapons, the standard is the M4A1 SOPMOD, with support carrying M249 Commando with ACOG scope or M240 with ACOG, a group marksman carrying an M21 or Barret M82, a grenadier with M4A1/M203 .

What is the standard sidearm (if carried) of the 75th?, and whats the anit-tank weapon of choice?

Also do 75th Ranger snipers wear Ghillie regulary? or are they more integrated into a chalk as a marksman.

Please Note: i know people can find it distasteful to create games based on real operations and soldiers, the reason im posting here is because i want to do 75th Rangers with as much detail and integrity as possible, im not doin this mod as a simple bit of fun, its aimed to be a detailed and complete study of the 75th Ranger fighting men, and as such the main focus will be about the adhereing of the Ranger code, infact ive made an intro movie to the game which recites this very code.

In advance i thank anybody who can give me feedback on these items.

[GearGod]

Got some stuff wrong:

Conventional US BDU-- Jacket has side shoulder pockets with us flag blood type retroreflective squares and the ranger tab/scroll

S.P.E.A.R. Body armour- Negative-More like SPEAR Ranger body armor

R.A.C.K. webbing- They may select the standard LC-2, RACK, FLC, ELCS or any other vest... Since the ELCS has more features than any other vest plus its the "newest" Its safe to say its best to go with the ELCS worn over the SPEAR Ranger armor

'Point Blank' elbow and knee pads-- Negative; Alta Supeflex elbow/knee pads- They wear black although Its more appropriate if you made it woodland camouflage in color or 3color desert in color; Alta makes it in woodland camouflage but not in 3color desert camouflage though

E.P.S. goggle system or Defender goggles--Negative; Bolle T800 Goggles

NOMEX gloves---Blackhawk version-- May be OD or Tan

Helmet would be the newer MICH helmet

Boots would depend on the situation-- But the most popular are jungle, desert, and goretex matterhorn mountain cold weather boots

I'll post more info about everything later

BTW those "distaseful" people can goto hell.. They should also talk defecation to Tom Clancy and the US Army's "Americas Army" PC game

[spider_csk]

brilliant, thats a great help, can i ask where you got your info from? or am i being too nosey :)

[spider_csk]

is the practice of writing your name in marker on the helmet still practiced?

Also heres more:
For some desert or jungle opertains boonies or caps will be worn, and all helmets will be fitted with NOD fittings

[Apogee]

75th Ranger RGT uses the Carl Gustav. You also have 3 MG teams per platoon instead of the standard infantry 2.

[Mephisto]

keep us updated
i'd love to play that convertion :D

[Mal3]

Me too, I just finished Ghost Recon last night. I'm not very happy with it as a game, preferring Rogue Spear and especially Raven Shield, but some missions were fun, even if some seemed pretty stupid.

[Apogee]

any chance of seeing that video before the game comes out?

[jokiemastah]

unrealtournament2003 is what you should use much better AI.

[Desert-Fox]

Whats the link to the home page of the mod coz i´d really like to play it!

and
What kinda people think realistic games are distasteful?
i personally find games that Claim to be realistic but are really just a load of sh*t, distasteful[/i]

[sn589]

Regarding head gear: P/C's (patrol caps) With the ranger roll (the roll is very important) would be worn for any open country ops. Boonies for scout/ sniper teams. MICHs for urban ops and when contact is assumed. Basically on an op P/C's or boonies are worn until you reach the AA at that point armor is downed snipers but on ghillie suits and pull out their long guns (snipers carry MP5SD or M-4's until they reach their hide) Long guns are kept in a drag bag.

**Now here comes the disclaimer. Its been a few years but I beleive they still operate under this basic TO&E. But I could be wrong

[Beowulf]

You might want to post your question at this board also:
http://www.socnetcentral.com/vb/

There are a lot of active duty special ops guys posting over there, most of them are in ranger battalion.

[TFG]

Hey man, I would be willing to help you with "getting the looks right" for your mod if you need help. If you are real serious about this, and want my help, I can draw up some drawings of ranger gear.

I am researching military gear (Mainly US Special forces and Ranger gear, also Russian equiptment) For a comic book I am drawing, its kinda what I do in my free time.

Here are a couple Ranger drawings that I based the gear loadouts off real Photos, they should be fairly(but probaly not entirely) accurate. They will give you a little idea of what I can do. Also, about body armor, in the most recent pictures I have seen, the rangers wear the Ranger version of the SPEAR body armor, with the pouches from the RACKs mounted directly onto the webbing on the body armor. Another piece of gear to remember is the LBT Ranger Airborne pack. I am no Ranger, just a 15 year old that wants to join the Army when he turns 18.

http://www.paavo-ilmari.net/~tfgreyskull/ORIGIN/MILITARY/Rngr75thRgt.jpg

http://www.paavo-ilmari.net/~tfgreyskull/ORIGIN/MILITARY/3rdBN_IMG1.JPG

[GearGod]

Jacket has side shoulder pockets with us flag blood type retroreflective squares and the ranger tab/scroll All or most SF do this-- Side pockets beat no pockets on the side. Blood type for speedy blood type verification. Retroreflective squares for friendly ID??? Not to sure about that


S.P.E.A.R. Body armour- Negative-More like SPEAR Ranger body armor Here are a goldmine of "latest" photos Ive found; I cannot beleive I have found them:

http://specwargear.com/images/US%20Army%20SF-34.jpg

http://specwargear.com/images/US%20Army%20SF-36.jpg

So as you can see they are wearing the SPEAR Ranger armor. SPEAR is the new Special Forces gear and since Rangers are with the JASOC(http://www.specialoperations.com/Units/JSOC/default2.htm) and are considered infantry support to SF or something like that they get the SPEAR armor... but a RANGER version:

http://www.special-warfare.net/data_base/305_load_bearing/spear_elcs_00/spear_balcs_01/spear_ranger_02.jpg

http://www.special-warfare.net/data_base/305_load_bearing/spear_elcs_10.html


They may select the standard LC-2 As shown in the photo above


RACK RACK was created and issued specifically to the 75th. Here are some asian airsoft guys with ranger RACKs:

http://www.special-warfare.net/data_base/105_in_action/ranger_01/75ranger_10.jpg

http://www.special-warfare.net/data_base/105_in_action/ranger_01/ranger_index_01.html

More RACK photos: http://www.special-warfare.net/data_base/306_vest/sds_rack_01.html also featured on ghost recon which I think was weird that everyone was wearing it if they are SPECIAL FORCES... SF wears SPEAR ELCS


FLC Since its standard infantry issue and Rangers are considered infantry they may wear it http://www.special-warfare.net/data_base/305_load_bearing/molle_04.html dont click molleI molleI is evil


ELCS or any other vest... Since the ELCS has more features than any other vest plus its the "newest" Its safe to say its best to go with the ELCS worn over the SPEAR Ranger armor ELCS is the latest Special Forces vest. I still say its safe to go with the ELCS because it has more features/pockets than the FLC, RACK, and LC-2 Suspenders and besides, the SPEAR ELCS was made to be worn with SPEAR ARMOR:

http://www.special-warfare.net/data_base/305_load_bearing/spear_elcs_01.html


Alta Supeflex elbow/knee pads

Check out the above photos plus this photo:

http://images.janes.com/defence/land_forces/gallery/fortbragg/images/28a18.jpg

As you can see in the photos they're wearing black pads. However, there are WOODLAND pads available:

http://store3.yimg.com/I/opsgear_1740_9805675

See that black strap and front cap? It should be OD Green like this pad:

http://hatch-corp.com/Gloves%201/KP250C.jpg

As for desert put desert pads on them that look just like the woodland pad exept having 3-color desert camouflage on it


Negative; Bolle T800 Goggles T800 is 75th standard issue goggle. Here are some examples:

http://specwargear.com/images/US%20Army%20SF-35.jpg

http://images.janes.com/defence/land_forces/gallery/fortbragg/images/28a18.jpg

http://specwargear.com/images/US%20Army%20SF-34.jpg

http://specwargear.com/images/US%20Army%20SF-36.jpg


NOMEX gloves---Blackhawk version-- May be OD or Tan

http://www.blackhawkindustries.com/uploads/product_images/8002_1.jpg


Helmet would be the newer MICH helmet http://www.sbccom.army.mil/products/cie/SPEAR_MICH.htm


Boots would depend on the situation-- But the most popular are jungle, desert, and goretex matterhorn mountain cold weather boots

Jungle boots are worn in hot weather and soft type terrain. Desert are worn in the same terrain except its tan in color and used in the soft desert. These jungle/desert boots are very comfortable due to the lightweightness and the panama sole.

JUNGLE BOOT:

http://altama.com/detail/8852.jpg

DESERT BOOT:

http://altama.com/detail/4156.jpg

As for the mountain/cold weather/goretex boots its used in cold weather and rocky hard terrain.. There are so many goretex matterhorn boots the only one Im guessing they wear is the ranger boot, after all US Cavalry says its Government Issue and the boots name is Ranger Boot:

http://www.uscav.com/prodInfo/enlarged/8932L.jpg

http://www.uscav.com/shop/uscitemdetail.asp?stk_code=OK8932

Also check out the afghanistan report:

http://www.geocities.com/usarmyafghangearproblems/


our battalion directed for every one to wear gore-tex boots [Intermediate Cold Weather Boots] during the mission, you can imagine how painful that was. 71 gave up my boots to a new Soldier who didn't have any so I wore jungle boots, gore-tex socks and a pair of smart wool socks and mv feet never got wet or cold even in the snow

Some had desert boots that fell apart in a week or two. The sides of the boots ripped out. The sole was too soft for the rocky terrain.

http://www.geocities.com/usarmyafghangearproblems/



As you can see, jungle boots are more comfortable but less durable than goretex boots

I think I will draw up some kind of drawing of the gear or something what do you think so far its a very complicating and difficult task to compile such intel LOL :lol:

[GearGod]

OMG!!!!! I see a drawing competition comming on! I have some drawing skills too.. I need to get my damn scanner working. Let me analyze your photos:

FIRST PHOTO

Is the hlemet MICH or PASGT. Needs to be MICH with the 3 point suspension:

http://specwargear.com/images/US%20landwarrior-5.jpg

http://www.special-warfare.net/data_base/303_protective/cgf_tc_2000_01.html

Wheres the facepaint?

http://www.army.mil/armyimages/images/800sold2.jpg

Wheres the lowered balaclava or scarf?

http://specwargear.com/images/headset-soldier%20intercom%20headset%205.jpg

http://www.army.mil/armyimages/images/800sold5.jpg

The motorola microphone is obsolete. Check these headsets out:

http://specwargear.com/images/headset-soldier%20intercom%20headset%209.jpg

http://specwargear.com/images/headset-recon%20headset-2.jpg

http://specwargear.com/images/headset-soldier%20intercom%20headset%202.jpg

Wheres the bloodtype/usa flag/reflective square/ranger tab/scroll? Wheres the elbow pads?

PHOTO2: Goggles? Tuck shirt in for more professional look

I had better get my scanner working

[TFG]

"the latest photos I have found"

Wow, was it really that hard to click on the gallery on Specwargear.com?

I know they should be using the MICH, I just like the look of the PASGT more (and I dont have a MICH on hand, there is an advantage to drawing somthing when you have it right in front of you, and I own a PASGT.)

Now, you say they are using the Helstorm Nomex gloves? What makes you think that? What would be their reason to use those over the Issue gloves? Got photo proof?

Also, it is wrong to assume the Rangers are using the SPEAR ELCS now. If he wants to be accurate, making an assumption like that wouldnt be the best idea for his mod. Untill you see Rangers with the ELCS, or a Ranger tells you thats what they use, it is best to stick with the reference you have right now, wich is that they are likely just mounting the RACK pouches on their Body armor.

Just curious Adamhafafhadfa, are you some kind of know-it-all?

[GearGod]

LOL Check out some enhancements I made; I gave your soldiers a makeover:

http://adambalhetchet.freeservers.com/rangeralpha.jpg

http://adambalhetchet.freeservers.com/rangerbravo.jpg

[Goose]

Yes,Adambelafhcsut,why would they use BHI Nomex flight gloves over USGI FLight gloves? It makes no sense for them to buy something that they can get for free,and are just as good. And on the subject of knee pads,the ones used in Ghost Recon are NOT the Alta.

http://www.specwargear.com/images/tactical%20gear-military%20pads-2.jpg

http://www.specwargear.com/images/tactical%20gear-military%20pads-3.jpg

These are starting to become a standard among the US Army,ever since they were used in the Land Warrior program.

[Trigger]

Great adam...my kid does that crap with crayons too. Get back on the meds boy. :slap:

[TFG]

Um.... ok, dont like my drawings? Go make some yourself with your macaroni art and crayons. Oh wait, you ate all of your crayons. :bash:

Has it ever occured to you, that maybe soldiers arent ALWAYS wearing the patches? They are backed with velcro. That is so you can remove them. That means they arent on all the time. Why did you put facepaint on them? Maybe they are in the desert, genious. Also, have you ever seen a photo before with a soldier that had BDU pockets on his sholders AND a ranger scroll? I have not. Thus I wont put that in my drawing.

What the f%$k is up with that scarf? If you have seen one photo of a soldier wearing one, does that mean all of them do? I dont think so. They arent gonna force you to wear a scarf as dress code.

How much time weekly do you spend jacking off to your Spec Ops gear?

[Goose]

SF dont strictly use this and that. Most SF are allowed to choose what they want. Yes,many SF use RACK's,they dont restrict them to only Rangers.

[TFG]

yeah, I have even seen photos of US Ground infantry units with the RACKs in Iraq.

[GearGod]

Wow, was it really that hard to click on the gallery on Specwargear.com? I figured all the photos there were already on this website I didn't see the 2-3 hidden ranger photos
I know they should be using the MICH, I just like the look of the PASGT more (and I dont have a MICH on hand, there is an advantage to drawing somthing when you have it right in front of you, and I own a PASGT.) I see, but if you were to draw real cartoons of them would you choose MICH or PASGT-- I wouldnt settle for anything inferior-- 3 point suspension prevents helmet roll and nose injuries when doing parachute landings which are caused by the older inferior suspension sysems

Also, the soldier cannot look as high and fire his weapon when he is wearing the PASGT with body armor.. the back of the helmet is too low down compared to the high profile MICH
Now, you say they are using the Helstorm Nomex gloves? What makes you think that? What would be their reason to use those over the Issue gloves? GI and hatch nomex doenst come in the tan color. Hellstorm has more features than any other nomex glove such as elastic gather on back of glove to secure it and trigger finger stitching-- Doenst mean they dont use GI or Hatch gloves dont get me wrong
Also, it is wrong to assume the Rangers are using the SPEAR ELCS now. I think I read somewhere on some message board that they were using it and others were using other non-GI vests and stuff; Id have to somehow find out-- Any recommendations?
If he wants to be accurate, making an assumption like that wouldnt be the best idea for his mod. Perhaps, but do you agree the ELCS has more features than the other GI vests? Its the latest modern PALS vest
it is best to stick with the reference you have right now, wich is that they are likely just mounting the RACK pouches on their Body armor. and/or wearing the RACK or LC-2
Just curious Adamhafafhadfa, are you some kind of know-it-all? No. And Im going to change my last name to something that sounds cooler like umm hmm SCHWARTZKOF that sounds pretty good. Hey dude whats your name? Well my name is ADAM SCWARTZKOF hahaha that would kickbutt


Yes,Adambelafhcsut,why would they use BHI Nomex flight gloves over USGI FLight gloves? It makes no sense for them to buy something that they can get for free,and are just as good. Not as good as BHIs nomex.. Ive told you above


And on the subject of knee padThese are starting to become a standard among the US Army,ever since they were used in the Land Warrior program.s,the ones used in Ghost Recon are NOT the Alta

Those are BIJANS knee/elbow pads. As good as they look those trap heat and are hot and wear out fast. Knowledgable professionals use ALTA. Ask brad at lightfighter.com he'll tell ya about how soldiers order altas to replace thier bijans pads


Um.... ok, dont like my drawings? Go make some yourself with your macaroni art and crayons. Oh wait, you ate all of your crayons. No reason for such attitude, and its not appreaciated


Has it ever occured to you, that maybe soldiers arent ALWAYS wearing the patches? Unless their in some super black operation that you never hear about.. Did you have that in mind when you drew it? An explanation below each drawing would be plausible


They are backed with velcro. That is so you can remove them. That means they arent on all the time. I know


Why did you put facepaint on them? You had no color. Woodland is more common than desert so natually I figured woodland. In fact, the ranger photos were woodland also. Woodland is so common that they wear woodland gear with desert


What the f%$k is up with that scarf? If you have seen one photo of a soldier wearing one, does that mean all of them do? I dont think so. They arent gonna force you to wear a scarf as dress code. The attitude isnt appreaciated. Damn dude are you a hothead or what.. My philosophy is to look the best-- And when I see a "naked" neck I think SCARF! BALACLAVA! An alternative to applying facepaint to your neck!


How much time weekly do you spend jacking off to your Spec Ops gear? You have a real attitude problem

I didn't say I didn't like your drawings. They are quite impressive. You however took it personally-- Ever heard of constructive criticism? I was not the one who got hostlie first. I was the one who said "Hey they would look better if they wore this which will make them look cool" which made you hostile? Doesnt make sense

[GearGod]

SF dont strictly use this and that. Most SF are allowed to choose what they want. Yes,many SF use RACK's,they dont restrict them to only Rangers. yeah, I have even seen photos of US Ground infantry units with the RACKs in Iraq.

SF and (I think)Rangers can wear whatever vest they want. Its just that the Government Issue(GI) vests are available to them so they either pick from the 6 vests available such as (LC-2, TLBV, ETLBV, FLC, RACK, ELCS) or they buy their own vests. Infantry units may be allowed to use their own vests depending on if commanders allow it.

What vest would you wear if you were in the Army? I'd like to experiment with the ELCS and RAV-- RAV sounds like an EXELLENT vest--I'll talk more about it later

[Alleycat]

Just thought I would post this since there are other drawings on here.

http://members.cox.net/alleycat2687/NewSEALdrawing2.jpg

I did it off the picture of the DEVGRU Operator on the site. Changed his outfit to make him look like he's on some sort of CQB Operation.

By the way spider_csk the mod sounds awesome, and do you think we can see that intro movie? :D

[TFG]

You have a real attitude problem

Thanks.

Its good that you are giving this guy help identifying gear, but make sure all your info is correct first.

If you really want to know what they are using for gear NOW, ask the guys at some military forum. If you dont do that, you will just have to base the gear setups off the latest photos you can find. I havent seen Ranger Tabs and Scrolls on Modified BDUs before, so I wouldnt reccomend doing that in the mod, because that would be an innacuracy unless you can prove otherwise.

For some fairly recent Ranger Photos, this is a good book. http://www.concord-publications.com/3005/3005.htm Pick it up. I have seen it, very nice photos.

[TFG]

Hey Alleycat,

Nice drawing!

[Alleycat]

Thank you much.

[hood]

Just wanted to say "Nice artwork" to both TFG and Alleycat... I can draw if I see something, but my talent for original illustration from my head is severely lacking... It makes me admire people who can, that much more.

[Piccolo]

Go Go Gadget Plagiarist! Nice job on ripping off someone's work, and doing a crappy modify on it at that, Adam.


Ok..since that is out of the way, Spider, if you need some weapons to use for your mod, let me know. I don't currently have GR installed at this point, but I made the mod Navy SEALs 2.0, which you are free to use some weapon files from. Just contact me in private to verify what you want to use first;

chriscartman@hotmail.com



Ps. Here is the link to download the mod, if you don't already have it. You need Desert Siege expantion pack to play it correctly, btw.

http://www.fileplanet.com/files/80000/85348.shtml

Also, if you have the Island Thunder pack, pick up version 2.1, which is a patch to make the mod compatible with IT.

http://www.fileplanet.com/files/110000/119824.shtml

[Goose]

Adam,do you own Hatch Flight Gloves? I do,and they suck ass compared to GI. The stitching is bad,and the "Nomex" or so they call it,wears out very quickly.