Energy policy has US hostage: McCain

[ed316]

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Energy policy has US hostage: McCain

24jan06

WASHINGTON: The US must explore alternate energy sources such as nuclear power to avoid being held hostage by Iran or by "wackos" in Venezuela, senator John McCain has argued.

Senator McCain, a potential presidential contender in 2008, said recent actions by Venezuela's populist president Hugo Chavez and Iran's leaders made it clear that the US would be vulnerable as long as it remained dependent on foreign energy.
"We've got to get quickly on a track to energy independence from foreign oil and that means, among other things, going back to nuclear power," Senator McCain said on Fox News Sunday. "We better understand the vulnerabilities that our economy, and our very lives, have when we're dependent on Iranian mullahs and wackos in Venezuela."
Aside from Mr Chavez, who accuses foreign oil companies of looting his country, Washington now has another South American leader to worry about in the form of Bolivian president Evo Morales Aima, who laid out the most complete picture yet of his leftist agenda at the weekend.
With regular promises to be a "nightmare" for the US, Mr Morales has been a rising star of Latin America's populist Left and is closely allied to Mr Chavez and Cuban leader Fidel Castro.
After tearfully accepting the country's red, green and gold presidential banner, Mr Morales spelled out plans to "industrialise" Bolivia's natural gas, hinting the country could take over resource extraction now performed by foreign companies.
Mr Morales has attacked US-backed economic policies promoting open markets and privatised state industries and opposed US efforts to end Bolivian cultivation of coca leaf, the prime ingredient in cocaine.
As he took power, he also demanded the world community cancel the impoverished Andean nation's $US6.4billion ($8.6billion) foreign debt, saying: "This money definitely never helped our indigenous people."
Senator McCain's comments on US foreign policy challenges came as a senior Iranian official told the Financial Times that Iran would resume industrial-scale uranium enrichment if it was referred to the UN Security Council over its nuclear standoff with the West.
Iran's chief nuclear negotiator, Ali Larijani, urged the European Union to reopen talks that had stalled after Tehran broke UN seals on uranium enrichment equipment.
Senator McCain said the US could not rule out military
action against Iran, should diplomats fail in their efforts to haul the country before the UN Security Council for alleged nuclear violations.
"We cannot take the military option off the table, but we have to make clear it's the last option," Senator McCain said on Fox News Sunday.
The West suspects Iran wants the radioactive material to help make nuclear arms. Tehran says it will be used to generate electricity.
"If the negotiating route is open, we prefer to reach a conclusion through talks," Mr Larijani told the Financial Times. "But if this route is closed, we are obliged to follow up our other scenario. Everything depends on the way we are treated."
Asked if there was a timescale for uranium enrichment on an industrial scale, he said: "Yes. We have a plan for resumption.
"If we are referred to the Security Council, the Government is obliged ... to lift all voluntary measures." AP and agencies

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Talk is nice, but let's see action

[Resevoir Hogs]

I despise being at the mercy of morons of the kind we find running Iran and Venezuala. The day we stop needing oil and gas will be a day to celebrate.

[MakeWar87]

the majority of oil going to the world comes out of these countries which is really bad, we are soon gonna have to make a choice with the rest of the world as to what we are gonna do Iran thinks they can do whatever they want so I hardly belive that they just want to explore nuclear research. I say we reinstate the assasination policy and take these mofo's out while we can unlike when we had three chances to assasinate bin laden but clinton was too much of a puss to do it or if we have to take military action we need to do it before they make nukes since diplomacy never really does work with "whakos'

[Weasel]

The US must explore alternate energy sources such as nuclear power to avoid being held hostage by Iran or by "wackos" in Venezuela, senator John McCain has argued.
That´s alternate? No thanks. :|

[ed316]

That´s alternate? No thanks. :|

Until we start having an industrial size Flux Capacitor I see no other alternative, but Nuclear

[AceoFBase]

I don't see how nuclear power plants are going to reduce dependence on foreign oil as only 3% of US electricity is generated from petroleum.

It's the transportation sector that is consuming two thirds of all crude oil in the US.

http://x4.putfile.com/1/2213345910.jpg (http://www.putfile.com)

http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epm/epm_sum.html

[Weasel]

Until we start having an industrial size Flux Capacitor I see no other alternative, but Nuclear

That´s not an alternative. It´s just a switch from one malady to another.

[ed316]

That´s not an alternative. It´s just a switch from one malady to another.

The US is not going to have wind mills all across the landscape or using thermal vents. We don't have much choice in the US when it comes to alternative fuels.

[AceoFBase]

The US is not going to have wind mills all across the landscape or using thermal vents. We don't have much choice in the US when it comes to alternative fuels.

Less than 1% of US oil consumption is used to generate electricity so I don't think you need either windmills or additional nuclear plants.

It's not going to reduce US reliance on imported oil.

[Weasel]

The US is not going to have wind mills all across the landscape or using thermal vents. We don't have much choice in the US when it comes to alternative fuels.
Same goes for Germany. We are world champions of building windmills and solar panels but this technology still is too expensive. Unfortunately only a few people put solar panels on their roofs.
Not to mention the supply of the industry.

I think we (the whole world) spend too less money on research for alternative energy sources.

Btw. some scientists say that future wars will be because of energy, others say they will be because of drinking water. Just a thought.

[ed316]

Same goes for Germany. We are world champions of building windmills and solar panels but this technology still is too expensive. Unfortunately only a few people put solar panels on their roofs.
Not to mention the supply of the industry.

I think we (the whole world) spend too less money on research for alternative energy sources.

Btw. some scientists say that future wars will be because of energy, others say they will be because of drinking water. Just a thought.

I personally think we are going to fight China for the worlds oil supply. Unless we wean ourselves off before the inevitable arises.

[ed316]

Less than 1% of US oil consumption is used to generate electricity so I don't think you need either windmills or additional nuclear plants.

It's not going to reduce US reliance on imported oil.

and that is truly sad, it comes down to us the consumer old habits die hard.

[Weasel]

I personally think we are going to fight China for the worlds oil supply. Unless we wean ourselves off before the inevitable arises.
If you/we are stupid enough to do so we will have more energy than we wanted to. :|

You know, the big mushrooms......

[ViktorNavorski]

Am I the only one hoping for another oil crisis bigger than the one in the 70's to hit the U.S.? It would serve as a great motivator to everybody, from consumers to corporations to politicians to put more effort into alternative energy sources.

[ed316]

Am I the only one hoping for another oil crisis bigger than the one in the 70's to hit the U.S.? It would serve as a great motivator to everybody, from consumers to corporations to politicians to put more effort into alternative energy sources.

x2... I see no other type of wake-up call for us.

[Weasel]

Am I the only one hoping for another oil crisis bigger than the one in the 70's to hit the U.S.? It would serve as a great motivator to everybody, from consumers to corporations to politicians to put more effort into alternative energy sources.
You shouldn´t hope so. It would be a desaster for world economy.

[ViktorNavorski]

You shouldn´t hope so. It would be a desaster for world economy.Being completely reliance on oil IS a disaster for our economy, our policies, etc., pretty much a lot of other aspects of our life right now.

[Esszett]

What about "Erdwärme" (I think geothermal power is the right translation)?
I heard the German Reichstag has an own "Erdwärme" power-plant which makes it independent from external power sources.
I also heard that it is successfully used in the Saarland and in France at the German-French border, where some villages are supplied with warm water and electricity from such power plants.

And has anyone ever heard about the nuclear fusion reactor that is currently under development by some European countries (the Max-Planck-Instutute in my town and some of the profs from my Uni are doing some research on it)?
I heard it is planned to build an experimental reactor in southern France in the near future.

[Flagg]

Am I the only one hoping for another oil crisis bigger than the one in the 70's to hit the U.S.? It would serve as a great motivator to everybody, from consumers to corporations to politicians to put more effort into alternative energy sources.

I think you're the only one hoping for it.

Personally, I'm hoping we get leadership with the foresight and intestinal fortitude to ram a cohesive energy independance policy down the throats of the ignorant.

I'd like to see an energy security policy that would equal the speed, scale, and discipline of the Manhattan and/or Apollo Projects.

Make math and science the focus of our education system, tax petroleum projects an extra 10% and dump every penny into energy independance projects. Put a super genius in charge as energy czar...so we've got one person/one job.......and only one to blame if he/she fooks up.

Then hopefully, in about 25-50 years, we can tell the major oil producers(if they even have any oil left) to shove their oil up their respective anuses.

A repeat of the reactive 70's oil crisis/stagflation would hurt hundreds of millions......I prefer a more proactive approach....attack the problem, rather than putting our collective heads in the sand.

[Weasel]

What about "Erdwärme" (I think geothermal power is the right translation)?
I heard the German Reichstag has an own "Erdwärme" power-plant which makes it independent from external power sources.
I also heard that it is successfully used in the Saarland and in France at the German-French border, where some villages are supplied with warm water and electricity from such power plants.
Thermal power is ok for one family houses but what about the industry? We have to develop all kinds of alternative energy sources but it´s not sufficent to replace coal/nuclear sources......unfortunately.

[foxtrot023]

I think you're the only one hoping for it.

Personally, I'm hoping we get leadership with the foresight and intestinal fortitude to ram a cohesive energy independance policy down the throats of the ignorant.

I'd like to see an energy security policy that would equal the speed, scale, and discipline of the Manhattan and/or Apollo Projects.

Make math and science the focus of our education system, tax petroleum projects an extra 10% and dump every penny into energy independance projects. Put a super genius in charge as energy czar...so we've got one person/one job.......and only one to blame if he/she fooks up.

Then hopefully, in about 25-50 years, we can tell the major oil producers(if they even have any oil left) to shove their oil up their respective anuses.

A repeat of the reactive 70's oil crisis/stagflation would hurt hundreds of millions......I prefer a more proactive approach....attack the problem, rather than putting our collective heads in the sand.

With the current clout Hollibortun has, I would not hold my breath. However we do need urgently to move into Fusion.

In regards to all those that want a return to the 70s, be careful with what you hope, as the current per barrel cost of oil is $68-69, and some economists are already forecasting $100 per barrel, at which point the Fed will be forced to raised interest rates to curb inflation, but it will have the side effect of raising everything from mortgage rates to credit card rates rates, and guess what? today households are heavily reliant on credit and have a lot of debt (car loans, house loans and credit cards), have few savings and they are the ones moving the US economy upward right now.

[Esszett]

Thermal power is ok for one family houses but what about the industry? We have to develop all kinds of alternative energy sources but it´s not sufficent to replace coal/nuclear sources......unfortunately.

I'm not too sure if thermal energy couldn't be used for industrial purposes too.
You have to keep in mind that these power plants existing by now are relatively small and not very developed.
It are mostly some small communities who build such things and they don't have the money to build real big ones or to invest heavily into research.

Maybe if this idea will be developed further it might be quite a sensible alternative.
It is under the earth, so it doesn't really disturb the people unlike windmills.
It is expensive to build, but once it is there you get energy almost for free.
And you use an energy that is always there.

I am no expert on this matter but to me it sounds quite promising.

[Weasel]

I'm not too sure if thermal energy couldn't be used for industrial purposes too.
You have to keep in mind that these power plants existing by now are relatively small and not very developed.
It are mostly some small communities who build such things and they don't have the money to build real big ones or to invest heavily into research.

Maybe if this idea will be developed further it might be quite a sensible alternative.
It is under the earth, so it doesn't really disturb the people unlike windmills.
It is expensive to build, but once it is there you get energy almost for free.
And you use an energy that is always there.

I am no expert on this matter but to me it sounds quite promising.
As you said it´s very expensive. And it only provides you with warm water. What about electricity? And I think only a few people who build a house and pay much money for it will pay additional money for this technology. The government decreased the sponsoring for all alternative sources.

[Esszett]

As you said it´s very expensive. And it only provides you with warm water. What about electricity? And I think only a few people who build a house and pay much money for it will pay additional money for this technology. The government decreased the sponsoring for all alternative sources.
I think you can gain electricity from the warm water (even if it's not boiling, don't ask me how they do it, but some buddies of mine told me it is easily possible).
You are right it is very expensice in short term (getting pipes into the ground and stuff). And I don't know how high maintaining costs are.
I just like the idea of once building such a thing and then getting energy for ages without having to buy any resources or to have to use dangerous materials.

[AceoFBase]

I think you can gain electricity from the warm water (even if it's not boiling, don't ask me how they do it, but some buddies of mine told me it is easily possible).


I guess a Stirling engine generator could do that but I'm not sure.

[MakeWar87]

word up yo thats seriously what it will take right know its just a huge compettion between oil reps politicians and the middle east the politicians dont want to see a crisis of oil so they want to exhaust all efforts on foriegn diplomacy to make it work and when I say politicians I mean congress and all oposing parties not he cabinet

[etlamatey]

We sure need alternate approach to energy yo! Coming to think of it, our tax dollars go to fund our military which fights rogue nations who are funded with our gas dollars!

[ElHombre]

I think you're the only one hoping for it.

Personally, I'm hoping we get leadership with the foresight and intestinal fortitude to ram a cohesive energy independance policy down the throats of the ignorant.

are you talking about the energy companies which have their fortunes tied into oil? ;-)


I'd like to see an energy security policy that would equal the speed, scale, and discipline of the Manhattan and/or Apollo Projects.

Make math and science the focus of our education system, tax petroleum projects an extra 10% and dump every penny into energy independance projects. Put a super genius in charge as energy czar...so we've got one person/one job.......and only one to blame if he/she fooks up.

Then hopefully, in about 25-50 years, we can tell the major oil producers(if they even have any oil left) to shove their oil up their respective anuses.

A repeat of the reactive 70's oil crisis/stagflation would hurt hundreds of millions...

especially those who make less than 100k a year. which is over 3/4 of the US.


...I prefer a more proactive approach....attack the problem, rather than putting our collective heads in the sand.

here's hoping.

[wiking]

There's alot of alternative stuff out and about, windmills, hydroelectric power, wavepower (name might not be right, but it uses waves and set currents to generate power in costal areas), nuclear powerplants, natural gas.

But the real problem is to get the car manufacturers to realize they either need to make cars most yanks would want to drive, convince them to do it and allso convince them that even if it's a hybrid, hydrogen fueled or a sort of weird looking euro-box, they HAVE to ride them.

If someone makes a highly economical engine that polutes next to nothing and can go for days on a tablespoon of petrol, then persuading the user to drive it is going to be a bitch. (especially in the US).

Most oil imported to the US is used for car fuel, and that is where the US citizens must be grabbed my the balls and squezeed. Replace petrol, improve the performance of petrol-fueled cars or develope a acceptable replacement.

[ViktorNavorski]

But the real problem is to get the car manufacturers to realize they either need to make cars most yanks would want to drive, convince them to do it and allso convince them that even if it's a hybrid, hydrogen fueled or a sort of weird looking euro-box, they HAVE to ride them.

That's the gist of my problem, when you boil down to it, two third of our oil is consume by your average joe. Granted SUV sales are down this year, but they still command a significant chunk of the market for as long as you got people needing to compensate with the H3 or soccer mom.

Despite increase in the production, improve design and a variety of choices, hybrid sales still not getting anywhere. The vehicles are already more expansive than their regular gas guzzling counterparts and companies making them are not making profit off of them. Despite the tax break and all the additional benefits, hybrid car is liking throwing a cup of water on a five-alarm fire. Something drastic that threaten people's wallet will need to happen to change their mentality.

[CyberSpec]

I think you're the only one hoping for it.

Personally, I'm hoping we get leadership with the foresight and intestinal fortitude to ram a cohesive energy independance policy down the throats of the ignorant.

I'd like to see an energy security policy that would equal the speed, scale, and discipline of the Manhattan and/or Apollo Projects.

Make math and science the focus of our education system, tax petroleum projects an extra 10% and dump every penny into energy independance projects. Put a super genius in charge as energy czar...so we've got one person/one job.......and only one to blame if he/she fooks up.

Then hopefully, in about 25-50 years, we can tell the major oil producers(if they even have any oil left) to shove their oil up their respective anuses.

A repeat of the reactive 70's oil crisis/stagflation would hurt hundreds of millions......I prefer a more proactive approach....attack the problem, rather than putting our collective heads in the sand.

US Energy independence, how about Oil shales in Colorado?

Apparently Shell has been working on it since the 80's.

[MakeWar87]

US Energy independence, how about Oil shales in Colorado?

Apparently Shell has been working on it since the 80's.

NO WAY I WOULD RATHER SLEEP IN A 30 DEGREE HOME THAN WATCH DRILLIN IN MY HOMETOWN

[MakeWar87]

We sure need alternate approach to energy yo! Coming to think of it, our tax dollars go to fund our military which fights rogue nations who are funded with our gas dollars!

OKAY MR LEFT WING HERES WHAT WE DO INVADE IRAN OR ASSANIATE THE PRESIDENT OIL STOCK PRICES PUMMEL TO THE VACUM CRISIS IN THE GOVERNMENT THAT WILL BE CREATED WE TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT MAKE HUGE A HUGE DEAL SEND INTERNATIONAL SUPPOURT HELP USE THE OIL TO STABALIZE THE ECONOMY OF IRAN WICH WE BE UNSTABLE THEY WILL THEN WANT TO BE OUR ALLIES AND THE PRESIDENT WILL AWARD ME A LIFETIME SUPPLY OF FREE SLURPEES FOR THIS BRILIANT PLAN NOT TO MENTION ALL THE OIL REPS THAT WILL LOVE ME AND IF IT ALL GOES THROUGH PERFECT ILL BE PULLIN 100'S OUT OF MY A** LIKE IT WAS NOBODYS BUISNESS .

[Esszett]

But the real problem is to get the car manufacturers to realize they either need to make cars most yanks would want to drive, convince them to do it and allso convince them that even if it's a hybrid, hydrogen fueled or a sort of weird looking euro-box, they HAVE to ride them.

If someone makes a highly economical engine that polutes next to nothing and can go for days on a tablespoon of petrol, then persuading the user to drive it is going to be a bitch. (especially in the US).

Most oil imported to the US is used for car fuel, and that is where the US citizens must be grabbed my the balls and squezeed. Replace petrol, improve the performance of petrol-fueled cars or develope a acceptable replacement.

One of the problems with alternative energy-carriers for cars is that they are either incapable of providing comparable power (like most electro-cars) or that storage is a major problem (like it is very dangerous and unsafe to use hydrogen).
So it's not only a problem of mentality but also of practicability.
I think the hybrid-powered car is a first step in the right direction and I heard that there are far more of such cars in service in the US than in Europe or any other place in the world.

In long term I think the hydrogen-cell could be THE power source of the future for all kind of vehicles.
The Bundeswehr already uses submarines powered by hydrogen-cells, which are a major advantage over traditional diesel-powered generators.
Granted these hydrogen-cells are still HUGE and too unsafe/unpractical to handle to be used in daily civil life. But so were steam-machines, computers, etc.

Of course does the fact that the oil-companies don't like to see such innovations, since they have the potential to endanger their multi-billion $ business, not help the development.
I've heard it is common practice among them to buy small companies involved in research on this matter for horrendous sums just to shut them down.

[perdurabo]

That´s alternate? No thanks. :|
why? its cleaner than oil gas or coal operated powerplant, even those "clean energy" make big impact on natural envoirment, big waterplants need to create lakes so you need to build a dam on river and that changes river ecosystem, solarplants need large parts of land covered with sollarbatteries- will we cut down our forests to build them?, wind plants are dangerous to birds.... proper build nukeplants are clean to ecosystem there is no chance of explosion (like charnobyl one -remember thath charnobyl was old style plant and they conducted experiments there so this is not normal situation...) show me other alternative

[Karmapolice]

The use of plant oil as fuel may seem insignificant today. But such products can in time become just as important as kerosene and these coal-tar-products of today.
Rudolf Diesel-1853 I belive is the correct year

Wise words from the man who created the Diesel engine. This would be a way to make a huge hit to oil producing nations and to help reduce are use of oil.