Former NYC chief of police : Go after blacks who commit crimes in Toronto

[ED209]

Q&A with former NYC chief of police, William Bratton

'If it's gangs that are committing the crimes, well then, go after the gangs. And don't be afraid to go after them because they're black.'

LINDA FRUM

William Bratton has earned a reputation as the most effective police chief in America. As chief of police in New York City from 1994 to 1996, Bratton is credited with the miraculous turnaround of that city's crime spiral. Currently chief of the LAPD -- the only individual to be chief of both major cities -- Bratton is achieving similar miracles. A pioneer of the "Broken Windows" theory of law enforcement, Bratton works on the principle that by cracking down on petty "lifestyle" crimes -- prostitution, drug use, aggressive begging -- a city makes itself less susceptible to more serious crime. Crime is viewed as an "epidemic": tolerate small offences and criminals will become emboldened to commit ever greater crimes. By the time Bratton left the NYPD, murders in New York had fallen to 984 a year, from a high of 2,262 in 1990. During his first two years in Los Angeles, overall crime has dropped 13 per cent, homicides 20 per cent. In Canada, the number of homicides committed in 2004 increased in six of our nine largest cities.

Chief Bratton, have you ever been to Toronto?
Yes, quite a few times.

So you know a little bit about our city? You know about our problems? A 27-per-cent increase in the number of homicides from 1995 to today. A Boxing Day slaying where a 15-year-old innocent bystander was gunned down during a gang shootout on a major shopping street. Can I tell you -- it would be nice if you were our police chief.
Well, thank you. Tell me, the gang violence that you are experiencing, what is the racial or ethnic background of the gangs?

That's a refreshingly blunt question. Some say it may be as high as 80 per cent Jamaican. But no one knows for sure, because people here don't like to talk about that.
You need to talk about it. It's all part of the issue. If it's Jamaican gangs that are committing the crimes, well then, go after the Jamaican gangs. And don't be afraid to go after them because they're black. That's the last thing you need to be concerned with.

Oh boy, I can see the complaints coming in already. You have to understand the climate here. The major local daily in Toronto, the Toronto Star, says it doesn't believe in "gratuitously" labelling people by ethnic origin.
Well, that really helps identify who they are, doesn't it? The next step will be to refuse to allow the police to identify people by their race or ethnic origin. That type of societal consciousness really goes to extremes.

I'm sure you heard that Toronto's mayor and our prime minister blame the Boxing Day shooting on you Americans. . .
Mm-hmm, yes. They talked about the problem of guns coming in from the United States. But whose hands are the guns in? You have to look at all sources of the problem. It is a combination of lax gun laws, which certainly contributes to our problem here in the United States, but ultimately the responsibility is on the individual who pulls the trigger.

THE ARTICLE CONTINUES...
http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/justice/article.jsp?content=20060116_119563_119563
______________________________________________________

Finaly someone who has the balls to say things the way they are!!woot
Damned, this guy is great!!!

Keep in mind that this was published by MacLeans, a very well known and reputable journal in Canada! Is change finally coming to Canada? Are people finally fed up with left wing wishy-washyness? I can only hope so.

[Bia]

BRAVO!!!!

It's about time too.

Excellent post.

[ronin2172]

BRAVO!!!!

It's about time too.

Excellent post.
wow so you mean all this time the police have NOT been arresting black people?

[ED209]

wow so you mean all this time the police have NOT been arresting black people?

They've been arresting black people...but they never dared to admit that they were arresting black people, nor admit that 80% of gang members were black nor that blacks contribute to a disproportionate number of crimes.

In other words, this is the first time I have seen the veil of silence about criminality come off in Canada.woot

[ronin2172]

They've been arresting black people...but they never dared to admit that they were arresting black people, nor admit that 80% of gang members were black nor that blacks contribute to a disproportionate number of crimes.

In other words, this is the first time I have seen the veil of silence about criminality come off in Canada.woot
so basically you are saying black people are nothing but trouble?

[ED209]

so basically you are saying black people are nothing but trouble?

No that's not what I am saying you sensationaist left-wing dimwit...re-read the article and my post and stop putting words in my mouth...do you see me writting anywhere "black people are nothing but trouble"?:roll: NO, so f*ck off.

Typical left-winger, saying putting words in my mouth and reading my mind.:cantbeli:

[Johnny_H02]

They've been arresting black people...but they never dared to admit that they were arresting black people, nor admit that 80% of gang members were black nor that blacks contribute to a disproportionate number of crimes.

In other words, this is the first time I have seen the veil of silence about criminality come off in Canada.woot

Christ almighty :bash:

[jedisponge]

so basically you are saying black people are nothing but trouble?
Why are you twisting words? At least do it in a more suave manner, where it doesn't come out so obvious. Sheesh.

[ronin2172]

No that's not what I am saying you sensationaist left-wing dimwit...re-read the article and my post and stop putting words in my mouth...do you see me writting anywhere "black people are nothing but trouble"?:roll: NO, so f*ck off.

Typical left-winger, saying putting words in my mouth and reading my mind.:cantbeli:So how does one categorize the race of criminals in canada? The only sensationalist seems to be you whos says there is some big cover up to hide crimes committed by black people.

When a arrest is made on TV do they black out...no that would be to obvious....white out, no that aint right either....ok do they grey out the perps face and hands so as not to show his skin color? Thereby contributing to the 'cover up'?

Please, I am pretty sure the people of Canada know (or at least THINK they know ) who is commting crimes.

And I seriously doubt Canadian Law enforcement is reluctant to arrest a murderer because of his race or ethnicity....this article is nothing but sensationlism

[ronin2172]

Why are you twisting words? At least do it in a more suave manner, where it doesn't come out so obvious. Sheesh.
whose twisting words i am just goin by his posts. And this topic doesn't really deserve to any degree of suavity

[ED209]

So how does one categorize the race of criminals in canada? The only sensationalist seems to be you whos says there is some big cover up to hide crimes committed by black people.

When a arrest is made on TV do they black out...no that would be to obvious....white out, no that aint right either....ok do they grey out the perps face and hands so as not to show his skin color? Thereby contributing to the 'cover up'?

Please, I am pretty sure the people of Canada know (or at least THINK they know ) who is commting crimes.

And I seriously doubt Canadian Law enforcement is reluctant to arrest a murderer because of his race or ethnicity....this article is nothing but sensationlism

READ the article I posted BEFORE you make comments please. Here I will put some parts for your conveniance:

Well, thank you. Tell me, the gang violence that you are experiencing, what is the racial or ethnic background of the gangs?

That's a refreshingly blunt question. Some say it may be as high as 80 per cent Jamaican. But no one knows for sure, because people here don't like to talk about that.
You need to talk about it. It's all part of the issue. If it's Jamaican gangs that are committing the crimes, well then, go after the Jamaican gangs. And don't be afraid to go after them because they're black. That's the last thing you need to be concerned with.

Oh boy, I can see the complaints coming in already. You have to understand the climate here. The major local daily in Toronto, the Toronto Star, says it doesn't believe in "gratuitously" labelling people by ethnic origin.
Well, that really helps identify who they are, doesn't it? The next step will be to refuse to allow the police to identify people by their race or ethnic origin. That type of societal consciousness really goes to extremes.

__________________________________________________

Notice : "But no one knows for sure, because people here don't like to talk about that" and notice this as well : "Oh boy, I can see the complaints coming in already"

So no, people in Canada are not told who commits crimes by the mass medias, becaue "they don't like to talk about it".

And yes it is important to talk about it because crime is an important issue and this naturally leads to talking about the failure of the Canadian immigration policy.

And finally, this article is not "sensatioanlism" as you say. If you are not Canadian you cannot know that MacLeans is a reputable and serious news magazine in Canada. They don not spout sensationalist non-sense.

And once again you have been putting words in my mouth by saying that I think that there is a cover-up of some sorts.:roll: Your problem is that you do not read what people write.

[Bia]

wow so you mean all this time the police have NOT been arresting black people?

STFU

you are simply TROLLING.

Do me a favor and never speak to me again.

[babydave]

theres a similar situation in the UK but because of the PC culture nothing like this comes out

[ronin2172]

STFU

you are simply TROLLING.

Do me a favor and never speak to me again.
uhh i dont remeber EVER speaking to u in the first place........

now that thats over let's move on...

Notice : "But no one knows for sure, because people here don't like to talk about that" and notice this as well : "Oh boy, I can see the complaints coming in already"

So no, people in Canada are not told who commits crimes by the mass medias, becaue "they don't like to talk about it".

And yes it is important to talk about it because crime is an important issue and this naturally leads to talking about the failure of the Canadian immigration policy.

And finally, this article is not "sensatioanlism" as you say. If you are not Canadian you cannot know that MacLeans is a reputable and serious news magazine in Canada. They don not spout sensationalist non-sense.

And once again you have been putting words in my mouth by saying that I think that there is a cover-up of some sorts. Your problem is that you do not read what people write.


So no, people in Canada are not told who commits crimes by the mass medias, becaue "they don't like to talk about it".
are those not your words?

Is not hiding unplesant facts from public eyes a cover up?


So how does the news cover crime in Canada? I know here they dont say the perp or the victims race UNLESS the identity of the ones involved are unknown. Does that mean the news covers up or chooses not to tell what race is commiting the crimes...no.

When a crime is commited in Liberty City in Miami...the residents of Miami know that most likely the perps are black....if a crime was commited in Little Havana they know the perps most likely are hispanic.....I am pretty sure the residents of Toronto can say the same about their city. If a gang fight breaks out at the Caribana Fest then it is logical to assume the hell's angels aint involved...no?

When a crime is committed in a certain night spot that happens to cater to a certain demographic then it isn't hard to figure out the race of those involved unless canadian news outlets don't even give out that type of info.

And how does this show the failure of the canadian immigration policy? Because the criminals in question are of jamaican descent? Are they fresh off the Air jamica 10:20 flight from Kingston....or are they second or even third generation canadian citizens (which would not make it an issue of immigration but something else...no?). You just painted a whole segment of society with a pretty large brush there.

[Bia]

uhh i dont remeber EVER speaking to u in the first place........
You have a horrible memory.
Post #3

[ronin2172]

You have a horrible memory.
Post #3
uhh i QUOTED you....talking to you would be hey BIA waht do you think about this or that....

[Bia]

uhh i QUOTED you....talking to you would be hey BIA waht do you think about this or that....


LOL...you're SO specific.


And you did ask me a question in post 3.
In the normal world...that's "talking"

[ed316]

Bia and Ronin, the tension is killing me! You guys need to get a room

[ED209]

So no, people in Canada are not told who commits crimes by the mass medias, becaue "they don't like to talk about it".
are those not your words?

Is not hiding unplesant facts from public eyes a cover up?


Acutally, no those are not my words...it's the author of the article who said that people don't talk about the ethnicity of criminals because people don't like to talk about it.

If you had bothered to read the article then you would know this.

You are a real pro at putting words in other people's mouths in order to justify your point of view.

[ronin2172]

Bia and Ronin, the tension is killing me! You guys need to get a room
LOL.....shhh we are tryin to keep our burning passionate desire on the low...


"LOL...you're SO specific.


And you did ask me a question in post 3.
In the normal world...that's "talking"
i know i try.....

actually it wasn't really a question more like a sarcastic comment

"Acutally, no those are not my words...it's the author of the article who said that people don't talk about the ethnicity of criminals because people don't like to talk about it.

If you had bothered to read the article then you would know this.

You are a real pro at putting words in other people's mouths in order to justify your point of view."

fine those are not your words ...but you seem to AGREE with the sentiment so the point of wether you spoke said words is moot....

so answer my question...how does the canadian media report on crime?

[soprano]

Look the simple truth about this is that most gangmembers are black or in are case in the US hispanic (By the way i am Hispanic) So its obvious where to look I hate these stupid "HOmeboys" just as much as the next guy these gangs and gang members are just as usles as a terrorist in my opinion.BY the way i really dont believe What all these wacky white leftists say when they try to make us into victims by saying "poor you,your black,YOur mexican It Must be so hard living in Country that looks down on you" THAts a bunch a of crap i've had just as good an oppurtunity as anyone else regardless of color, what it comes down to is simple basic personal choices.I myself could have easily been strayed away too crime but by personal judgment i haven chosen not to.I think all that vitimization crap by the propagandist left is in many cases what may drive some people away from fitting into a civilized society.When your told you cant make because your this or that not only by propogandists but by your own family because the buy into that garbage then you never will make it.

Personal choices,thats what it comes down to.

i've rambled on to long,anyway some feedback would be cool.

[ronin2172]

Look the simple truth about this is that most gangmembers are black or in are case in the US hispanic (By the way i am Hispanic) So its obvious where to look I hate these stupid "HOmeboys" just as much as the next guy these gangs and gang members are just as usles as a terrorist in my opinion.BY the way i really dont believe What all these wacky white leftists say when they try to make us into victims by saying "poor you,your black,YOur mexican It Must be so hard living in Country that looks down on you" THAts a bunch a of crap i've had just as good an oppurtunity as anyone else regardless of color, what it comes down to is simple basic personal choices.I myself could have easily been strayed away too crime but by personal judgment i haven chosen not to.I think all that vitimization crap by the propagandist left is in many cases what may drive some people away from fitting into a civilized society.When your told you cant make because your this or that not only by propogandists but by your own family because the buy into that garbage then you never will make it.

Personal choices,thats what it comes down to.

i've rambled on to long,anyway some feedback would be cool.

You are right it is all about personal choices, every member of this forum could have sone something that would have led them down a negative path. I am not so sure that all of the victimizing stuff is purely propoganda but it must be said there are a lot of folks who do use that as an excuse.

but back on topic my whole issue is with this "go after blacks who commit crimes"...i am pretty sure that Canadian police already know that and they are doing it...along with going after white, asian, indian, and other criminals.
Again this article is more sensationlist than anything else...hell you could sub the interviewer for Bill O Rielly

[EvanL]

We are already doing this. The problem lies in the fact that there are so many of these gangmembers and for each person we arrest, the crime is different and will receive a different penalty soemtimes not even serving time if the crime is a summary.

[remo williams]

this actually cracks me up.When I went to Vancouver, afew yrs back,the locals told me that i should watch out for the asian gangs,and the skinheads(I'm black).Being from NY I paid heed to the warning as there had recently been some "Gang" violence.If you go to the midwest there, are white gangs who traffic meth.On the coasts it latinos,blacks asians italian,jamacian,Russian.Down south too (like Bangin' in little rock).Ms13 is making inroads to the states and those Mo$#$%# are no joke.To Specifically zero in on one ethnic group (or at least give the appearance thereof with such a narrow statement like that,totally misses the problem.Crime is criminal no matter who's doing it.A jamacan gang would take a shot at me just as fast if not faster than anyother gang.Maybe he was trying to sensationalize the issue to draw attention to it.Maybe His next Gig will be in Canada, and he's trying to form a base of support for when his term is up in La.At a Chief's level it's more politics than police work.I don't know what's really up in toronto,but coming from nyc which as diverse as it is ,it's also unfortunately very polarized racially and economically.Not a very responsible statement to me as far as trying to stop crime goes.It seems more inflamatory than fact based.My honest feeling though is we are on our own.No amount of policing can protect everyone all the time every time.As the saying goes I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6

[Bia]

Look the simple truth about this is that most gangmembers are black or in are case in the US hispanic (By the way i am Hispanic) So its obvious where to look I hate these stupid "HOmeboys" just as much as the next guy these gangs and gang members are just as usles as a terrorist in my opinion.BY the way i really dont believe What all these wacky white leftists say when they try to make us into victims by saying "poor you,your black,YOur mexican It Must be so hard living in Country that looks down on you" THAts a bunch a of crap i've had just as good an oppurtunity as anyone else regardless of color, what it comes down to is simple basic personal choices.I myself could have easily been strayed away too crime but by personal judgment i haven chosen not to.I think all that vitimization crap by the propagandist left is in many cases what may drive some people away from fitting into a civilized society.When your told you cant make because your this or that not only by propogandists but by your own family because the buy into that garbage then you never will make it.

Personal choices,thats what it comes down to.

i've rambled on to long,anyway some feedback would be cool.

Smartest thing said in this thread so far.

:)

[Field_Gunner]

last october a local "gang" member tried to mug me, untill I noticed he had a watergun painted black in his hand and chased him for about 4 blocks.
in my town 99.95% of "gang" members are white (but they dress in the oh so cool early 90's movie gang mentality or like the guys you see in rap vids) the rest are ether black or O.T.B. jamaican.

my idea : make a 50 member police team with only one purpose, to raid known gang members houses/hangouts/gardensheds to put these ****heads away for a verry long time.

and MacLeans magazine is total liberal bull****