Mel Gibson's 'The Passion of the Christ'

[NcDeuce]

Anybody going to see this?

I'm going Wednesday with a bunch of fellow cadets...looks like it should be good. Gibson did a great job on Braveheart so I think it'll be alright.



All I gotta say about the Jews whining over it is suck it up.

[Seoulstriker]

the passion is:

1) an extremely detailed, textual piece on the passion of Christ.

2) not an evangelical movie.

i've read that for those who know nothing about what happened to Christ, they will not understand. they'll think the movie has no point to it.


i'm definitely going to go to the movie. :)

[Seiyuuki]

This movie doesn't need any advertising campaign...the title alone already draw huge attention to it.

[wholagun]

i heard on TV that in some places the moive is sold out for up to the first 14 days. Pretty good eh.

[IronHeart_26]

I'm going on Thursday. We bought our tickets about a month ago. It's pretty much sold out in my area for at least the first week and a half. There's a lucky group getting to watch it tonight though. They rented a whole theater for the evening.

Great Family movie.








;)

[Seraphim]

Great Family movie.








;)


I hope your being sarcastic.

Bah this movie is going to be lame. Its too full of religious mumbojumbo.
<---Insert sarcasm

Those that line sound familiar?

[fred_engles]

The New Yorker review (http://newyorker.com/critics/cinema/?040301crci_cinema) - by David Denby.

Also: some, err, interesting comments (http://www.news.com.au/common/printpage/0,6093,8727351,00.html) from Hutton Gibson, Mel's dad.

[Seoulstriker]

this movie is not some way out interpretation of the bible. it is as close to the passion of christ as is possible. there is almost no interpretation. i'm sick of these reviewers criticizing Gibson's movie, like 'he says the jews killed christ', etc. don't criticize gibson. criticize the bible if you want to.

[ArmedPacifist]

and so meagrely involved in the spiritual meanings of the final hours, that he falls in danger of altering Jesus’ message of love into one of hate.


Sums it up quite well.

[Haiw]

this movie is not some way out interpretation of the bible. it is as close to the passion of christ as is possible. there is almost no interpretation. i'm sick of these reviewers criticizing Gibson's movie, like 'he says the jews killed christ', etc. don't criticize gibson. criticize the bible if you want to.
The bible is the biggest load of crap ever produced by mankind.

Aaaah much better.

[Rantanplan]

During his lengthy radio interview, Hutton Gibson, 85, said Jews were out to create "one world religion and one world government" and outlined a conspiracy theory involving Jewish bankers, the US Federal Reserve and the Vatican, among others.

:cantbeli: :bash: :slap: :fork:

[Salty Dog]

the only reason i am ever considering seeing this movie is to see somebody get crucified (spelling?)

[Seoulstriker]

this movie is not some way out interpretation of the bible. it is as close to the passion of christ as is possible. there is almost no interpretation. i'm sick of these reviewers criticizing Gibson's movie, like 'he says the jews killed christ', etc. don't criticize gibson. criticize the bible if you want to.
The bible is the biggest load of crap ever produced by mankind.

Aaaah much better.

what makes you say that? please explain. :|

[Ratamacue]

Much of the Bible IS history and is fairly interesting. What I think Haiw means is that religion is the biggest load of crap ever thought up by a hallucinating schizophrenic.

[Haiw]

this movie is not some way out interpretation of the bible. it is as close to the passion of christ as is possible. there is almost no interpretation. i'm sick of these reviewers criticizing Gibson's movie, like 'he says the jews killed christ', etc. don't criticize gibson. criticize the bible if you want to.
The bible is the biggest load of crap ever produced by mankind.

Aaaah much better.

what makes you say that? please explain. :|
You asked for it... :P Besides, most of it is fairy tale and all. It was written years after everything happened anyway so even if all the miracles happened (*cough* unlikely *cough*) they're still...358th-hand accounts.

Yeah, there's some history in it, but it's just how they 'filled it in' that's so crappy.

[Seoulstriker]

this movie is not some way out interpretation of the bible. it is as close to the passion of christ as is possible. there is almost no interpretation. i'm sick of these reviewers criticizing Gibson's movie, like 'he says the jews killed christ', etc. don't criticize gibson. criticize the bible if you want to.
The bible is the biggest load of crap ever produced by mankind.

Aaaah much better.

what makes you say that? please explain. :|
You asked for it... :P Besides, most of it is fairy tale and all. It was written years after everything happened anyway so even if all the miracles happened (*cough* unlikely *cough*) they're still...358th-hand accounts.

Yeah, there's some history in it, but it's just how they 'filled it in' that's so crappy.


Haiw, where have you heard such a thing? are you talking about the old testament?

the new testament was written first-hand. :|

[Caesar]

I think just like Haiw about the Bible part.

About the movie, I'm gonna see it soon. Then I'll know if the Jews are right to complain about it. I find it sad though.

[Skaman]

I am an athiest yet I still want to see this.

[fisheyestudio]

Hey howdy hey!

I am very excited to see everything first hand. In all of the previews and interviews I have seen there is one scene that really put the hook in me. It shows a pair a scandled feet with a serpent winding its way between them. Suddently the foot is raised, the camera jumps to Jesus's eyes, and He stomps on the head of the snake. It that means nothing to you, take a minute and read Genesis 3:15. The bible is beyond human understanding in how it all fits together. When I hear people say things like it was all made up or is just fantasy, those comments dont make me angry, they just let me know that a person who would hold such an opinion has not yet taken the time to really look at the bible objectivly. It does take some effort, but like searching for hidden treasure, its worth it!


I wrote an opinion piece for the local paper and they publised it today:

Millions of people will be drawn to theaters to view The Passion. The suffering and love of Jesus will be seen as never before. Doubtlessly, this experience will stir the minds of both saints and the unredeemed. Will we, as the body of Christ, be ready and able to give them an answer for the hope that we have in Jesus?
Will we offer life and freedom, or, like the Pharisees, tie people up with the load of our tradition and religiosity. Dare we allow the good news to be Good News, and trust Jesus enough to tell people that He died for their past, present, and future sins. Can we express to them that Jesus died not only for sins, but to sin, that we might be born again, and the old man annihilated. That they are made perfect forever in their person by the sacrifice that Jesus made once, for all. It is so much easier to tell them that God has merely given them back their freedom to choose and they must now go forth and choose correctly, or else.
We can take those who are convicted of their sin and put them under a faith of duty: Jesus did so much for them so they had better get busy doing something for him. Or we can trust Jesus, and tell them who they now are in Him, saints, who will be presented blameless and with great joy, when they enter His presence. Let’s not shun to tell the fullness of the Gospel to those whom God sends our way. People are not hungry for a tradition or a denomination. People hunger for the truth, and Jesus is the Truth, the Way, and the Life.
It’s God who is at work in us, both to will and to do His good pleasure, not our own best efforts. The “church” needs to take time and examine whether the good news is good news as it is being taught. Will we be laying in wait with more burdens to lay upon those whom the Spirit is drawing? Let’s share Life and let Jesus change lives and behavior.

In Christ
Christopher Holloman

[citizen-k]

Anybody going to see this?

I'm going Wednesday with a bunch of fellow cadets...looks like it should be good. Gibson did a great job on Braveheart so I think it'll be alright.



All I gotta say about the Jews whining over it is suck it up.

I'm not whining over it - paganism is ones private business.

[Javehn]

Jesus ****ing Crist Fishy , you need to see a special kind of doctor very soon . I find the quote of Darth Vader in your signature disturbing . Hey Howdy hey .

[Guttorm]

Well, when it comes to the bible, I find it all and well that some people belive what that book says, but just don't belive everyting you read. :)

I think it's a bad thing to blindly belive in ANYTHING.

[The Walrus]

I think I might watch it, of course it's a Mel Gibson movie so I think the one-sided portrayal of the bad guys (I bet the Romans will have english upper-class accents), comes with the baggage. I find the rise of the religious right in America to be quite fascinating, and I think this movie is yet another reflection of this phenomenom.

[mocking_loudly_died]

I have no major opinion - it's just another movie, sit down, watch, leave.

Big deal.

[MolliG]

... (I bet the Romans will have english upper-class accents)...

They'll be speaking Latin/'Street' Latin. Jesus, his disciples and Jewish characters will be speaking Aramaic. Some Greek might be in there too.

I'm certainly going to see it when it's released here in March. For what reason, I do not know, I just want to go watch it; I suppose I can use the excuse the Monica Bellucci is playing Mary Magdalene ;), the first ever Christian in the eyes of many, some believe she was even Jesus' wife/partner...

:)

[Haiw]

Okay, to prove my point that it isn't the most believable book in the world..I thought I'd dug up some quotes.

http://home.att.net/~quotations/bible.html


For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
--John 3:16
Oh yeah, the son send down from heavens to the created-in-7-days earth. God just smacked a stamp at Jesus' head, wrote 'earth' on his forehead and lo and behold, he came out of the virgin mary. Almost like a game of 'find the falsehoods'.


God blesses those whose hearts are pure, for they will see God. --Matthew 5:8
If I say you'll get an everlasting supply of cookies when you live well do you believe it as well? Thrown in moral guidelines.


I have shown you in every way by laboring like this, that you must support the weak. And remembering the words of the Lord Jesus, that He said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.
--Acts 20:35
It's more blessed to give than to receive. In other words, when you give something to someone you basically leave them at a loss. Nice reasoning. I'll never accept a present again. Moral guidelines again.


He who sits in the heavens shall laugh.
--Psalm 2:4
He who doesn't believe in fairlytales can even laugh on earth.


She brought forth her firstborn Son, and wrapped him in swaddling cloths.
--Luke 2:7
Err, don't know why they threw this in.


And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch of their flocks at night. An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid. I bring you good news of great joy that will for all the people. Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord.
--Luke 2:8-11
Angels! Woopdeedoo! Did they have a delirium or what?!?! Angels, the 'glory of the lord'. :roll:


In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be enrolled. This was the first enrollment, when Quirini-us was governor of Syria. And all went to be enrolled, each to his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the city of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, to be enrolled with Mary, his betrothed, who was with child. And while they were there, the time came for her to be delivered. And she gave birth to her first-born son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths, and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn.
--The Bible, Luke John 1:12
Oh well, plain proza here.


The Lord foils the plans of the nations; he thwarts the purposes of the peoples. But the plans of the Lord stand firm forever, the purposes of his heart through all generations.
--Psalm 33:10,11
Errm okay. Scratch New World Order, enter 'Lord'. So basically everything I do is controlled by 'teh lord'. Yay.


Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy, meditate on these things.
--Philippians 4:8
Yay, let's copy Greek philosophy ;)


The Lord is close to all who call on him, yes, to all who call on Him sincerely.
--Psalm 145:18
Lord? You there? Oh, no, you're just the operator. Can you put me trough? WHAT? Not sincerely? DAMNIT! Just curious, has anyone ever been answered when they called? :roll:


Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth
--1 Corinthians 13:6
Love and truth aren't necessarily connected.


Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
--Matthew 6:19-21
Ooooh yummy moral guidelines again.


How many are your works, O Lord! In wisdom you made them all; the earth is full of your creatures. There is the sea, vast and spacious, teeming with creatures beyond number - living things both large and small.
--Psalm 104:24,25
Wupee, in all his 'wisdom' he made the ever-annoying flees and lice, he made the utterly useless ant, etc. etc. :roll:


Let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
--Matthew 5:16
Mmm yeah. Shine that light baby. Still waiting for it. :roll:


When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
--1 Corinthians 13:11
That's lovely. Everyone does that. Not much of a 'special son of god' ey? (unless it's not a quote from Jesus)


Wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.
--Ecclesiastes 10:19
??? Excerpt from 'The New Economist'?


Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven - for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little.
--Luke 7:47
Ah yes, the whole sin story... born with 'original sin' (Hey, what did I do? Nothing... but you're still a sinner!), and you can do away with everything with such an easy thing; CONFESSING! Glad our justice system doesn't work that way. Anyway, this quote; I suppose this means that some 'goods' can correct 'wrongs'. Bad philosophy.


For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?
--Matthew 16:26
He will sell his soul to dah devil!!! :roll:


Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
--John 14:27
Peace he left us. Well someone must have put it in a bottle or something because I don't see much of it when I look around. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid. That's something a hippy would say.


Behold, children are a blessing from the Lord. The fruit of the womb is a reward. Like the arrows in the hand of a warrior, so are the children of one's youth. Happy is the man who has his quiver full of them.
--Psalm 127:3-5
Quite arguable... not everyone likes children. But I guess they had to make sure the religion lived on ey? Oh and to bring the quote more up to date: The fruit of the womb is a reward. Like the bullets in the hand of a soldier, so are the children of one's youth. Check me out. I'm a 5.56mm child. ;)


If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. My command is this Love each other as I have loved you.
--John 15:10-12
He's blackmailing.


Be not overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good.
--Romans 12:21
No **** Sherlock. How about "Thou shallst not wipeth thy paper with arse, but wipeth thy arse with paper."


If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love I gain nothing Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always perseveres. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away...And now these things remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
--1 Corinthians 13:1-8, 13
Nice love poëm. Oh and... prophecies. Thought I heard the last of that after Matrix Revolutions.


Be of good cheer; I have overcome the world
--John 16:33
Doesn't seem much like that today eh?


Don't forget to be kind to strangers. For some who have done this have entertained angels without realizing it.
--Hebrews 13:2
Moral guidelines in a cheap package again.


But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.
--Galatians 5:22-23
'The Spirit'. Yay. Doesn't need much more words...


Ok, to sum things up. You could consider it as best as a shell for some moral guidelines. That's it. Calling it historical is like saying the LOTR series is a historical first-hand account.

[Javehn]

Quote:
Be not overcome with evil, but overcome evil with good.
--Romans 12:21

No **** Sherlock. How about "Thou shallst not wipeth thy paper with arse, but wipeth thy arse with paper."

Excellent dediction , Haiw . :D

[Tengu]

Going to see this movie, though i am an atheist. Romans and blood is a good combination p-)

[Catch22]

Haiw - remember good old Blaise Pascal and his bet? I'm just surprised with amount of time and work you hove devoted to prove us that you simply have something against christianism... well... Just why should we care? Why you presented us with this "brilliant" humour of yours? Don't you think it might be bit offensive to some of us? That bites me...

Bible formed the culture we live in... at least most of us I think - thus its a reality you simply cannot laugh at so simply.

Brave, brave Sir Robin...

[citizen-k]

Going to see this movie, though i am an atheist. Romans and blood is a good combination p-)

So you will be very disappointed, I read that the Romans are being described as plesent, kind and intelligent.

[hank]

the only reason i am ever considering seeing this movie is to see somebody get crucified (spelling?)

also check out "last temptation of christ" - Willem Dafoe as christ - very moving scene about Jesus on the cross

hank

[citizen-k]

Haiw, the bible is aimed for people who will be effected by its content.
Same people who might be effected by this movie in the wrong way (such as - "citizen-k - you murdered jesus!")

I can say now, in advance, I HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH JESUS, never saw him, talked to him or crucified him!

(I did date his mother thought ;) )

rofl

[hank]

Going to see this movie, though i am an atheist. Romans and blood is a good combination p-)

So you will be very disappointed, I read that the Romans are being described as plesent, kind and intelligent.

Don't believe everything you read, it can be dangerous. Romans are not "pleasant". Pontius washes his hands of the blood already drawn by the beatings/flailings at the hands of the Romans.

As for the new testament being first hand, I think Seoul brought this up - even Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John got written much later - they are written by witnesses but a lot of time passed b/w Jesus' death and the time the Gospel's came in to existence. Lots of inconsistencies in the Gospels themselves and that is to be expected.

Haiw - all those points are good ones - and the very reason why Chistianity is "faith" and not history. Inconsistencies will exist in Christianity no matter what - your decision not to accept the story b/c of the inconsistencies is simply that - your choice. I disagree but understand that faith is a choice and as such you should be allowed to make your own choice. What is silly about this debate is that you would put down our "choice" in faith and defend yours with "facts" about something that was preserved verbally and happened 2004 years ago. Think about it.

hank

[citizen-k]

Going to see this movie, though i am an atheist. Romans and blood is a good combination p-)

So you will be very disappointed, I read that the Romans are being described as plesent, kind and intelligent.

Don't believe everything you read, it can be dangerous. Romans are not "pleasant". Pontius washes his hands of the blood already drawn by the beatings/flailings at the hands of the Romans.

As for the new testament being first hand, I think Seoul brought this up - even Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John got written much later - they are written by witnesses but a lot of time passed b/w Jesus' death and the time the Gospel's came in to existence. Lots of inconsistencies in the Gospels themselves and that is to be expected.

Haiw - all those points are good ones - and the very reason why Chistianity is "faith" and not history. Inconsistencies will exist in Christianity no matter what - your decision not to accept the story b/c of the inconsistencies is simply that - your choice. I disagree but understand that faith is a choice and as such you should be allowed to make your own choice. What is silly about this debate is that you would put down our "choice" in faith and defend yours with "facts" about something that was preserved verbally and happened 2004 years ago. Think about it.

hank

As I read about the movie....thats how they are displayed in the movie...
(Thank you for supporting my argument)

[Haiw]

Haiw - remember good old Blaise Pascal and his bet? I'm just surprised with amount of time and work you hove devoted to prove us that you simply have something against christianism... well... Just why should we care? Why you presented us with this "brilliant" humour of yours? Don't you think it might be bit offensive to some of us? That bites me...

Bible formed the culture we live in... at least most of us I think - thus its a reality you simply cannot laugh at so simply.

Brave, brave Sir Robin...
It didn't take much of my time...and free time is something I have in excess right now anyway. I ain't saying I've got anything against Christianity..hell, for all I care everyone can believe what they want. As Tane Angle would say; To each their own. I don't care what you care. When asked for I'd do the same with the Koran or any other book of faith. It's just that Seoulstriker basically asked me to prove it isn't much of a 'history book'. It's not meant to offend anyone..

[hank]

Well, when it comes to the bible, I find it all and well that some people belive what that book says, but just don't belive everyting you read. :)

I think it's a bad thing to blindly belive in ANYTHING.

faith is more than belief - faith is belief tempered byt the knowledge that you must accept assumptions/inconsistencies that you would not otherwise accept. If the Bible were merely history - I agree we'd all be fools to follow it. But, for a Christian, the bible is much, much more than history and thus we acept inconsistencies that would otherwise be unpalatable.

Apply your logice to Pat Buchanan or Bill Clinton - I wholeheartedly agree b/c there are no other forces at play. But for a Christian, in faith, you must accept the Bible unconditionally - even the inconcsistencies. It is faith, and thus more than belief. Make sense?

hank

[hank]

Going to see this movie, though i am an atheist. Romans and blood is a good combination p-)

So you will be very disappointed, I read that the Romans are being described as plesent, kind and intelligent.

Don't believe everything you read, it can be dangerous. Romans are not "pleasant". Pontius washes his hands of the blood already drawn by the beatings/flailings at the hands of the Romans.

As for the new testament being first hand, I think Seoul brought this up - even Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John got written much later - they are written by witnesses but a lot of time passed b/w Jesus' death and the time the Gospel's came in to existence. Lots of inconsistencies in the Gospels themselves and that is to be expected.

Haiw - all those points are good ones - and the very reason why Chistianity is "faith" and not history. Inconsistencies will exist in Christianity no matter what - your decision not to accept the story b/c of the inconsistencies is simply that - your choice. I disagree but understand that faith is a choice and as such you should be allowed to make your own choice. What is silly about this debate is that you would put down our "choice" in faith and defend yours with "facts" about something that was preserved verbally and happened 2004 years ago. Think about it.

hank

As I read about the movie....thats how they are displayed in the movie...
(Thank you for supporting my argument)

I don't follow - beating/washing your hands of blood/asking Jews in the crowd to condemn Jesus to death? Pleasant in what way?

hank

[Haiw]

Haiw - all those points are good ones - and the very reason why Chistianity is "faith" and not history. Inconsistencies will exist in Christianity no matter what - your decision not to accept the story b/c of the inconsistencies is simply that - your choice. I disagree but understand that faith is a choice and as such you should be allowed to make your own choice. What is silly about this debate is that you would put down our "choice" in faith and defend yours with "facts" about something that was preserved verbally and happened 2004 years ago. Think about it.

hank
Like I said, I'm not knocking your faith. You could believe in Santa for all I care. It's just that I feel like correcting 'em when they call it 'history'. Besides your last point doesn't really stand; they have pretty much produced the same message for the last 15 centuries in church.

[citizen-k]

Going to see this movie, though i am an atheist. Romans and blood is a good combination p-)

So you will be very disappointed, I read that the Romans are being described as plesent, kind and intelligent.

Don't believe everything you read, it can be dangerous. Romans are not "pleasant". Pontius washes his hands of the blood already drawn by the beatings/flailings at the hands of the Romans.

As for the new testament being first hand, I think Seoul brought this up - even Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John got written much later - they are written by witnesses but a lot of time passed b/w Jesus' death and the time the Gospel's came in to existence. Lots of inconsistencies in the Gospels themselves and that is to be expected.

Haiw - all those points are good ones - and the very reason why Chistianity is "faith" and not history. Inconsistencies will exist in Christianity no matter what - your decision not to accept the story b/c of the inconsistencies is simply that - your choice. I disagree but understand that faith is a choice and as such you should be allowed to make your own choice. What is silly about this debate is that you would put down our "choice" in faith and defend yours with "facts" about something that was preserved verbally and happened 2004 years ago. Think about it.

hank

As I read about the movie....thats how they are displayed in the movie...
(Thank you for supporting my argument)

I don't follow - beating/washing your hands of blood/asking Jews in the crowd to condemn Jesus to death? Pleasant in what way?

hank

You saw the new movie? and that was one of the scenes?

[Tengu]

Calling it historical is like saying the LOTR series is a historical first-hand account.LOTR is real dude :cantbeli: . Isn't it?? THATS NOT FUNNY!! :bash:


So you will be very disappointed, I read that the Romans are being described as plesent, kind and intelligent.oh well, one out of two ain't bad p-) .

[hank]

Yes - it happens in the square(I am not a bible scholar so I don't rememebr the name of the suare) - Pontius Pilot asks the crowd to condemn Jesus and they do. Jesus is bleeding profusely from the beatings he has already suffered by the Romans. The Jewish crowd cries for Jesus to die (which Gibson toned down for the public version by the way - Gibson told Diane Sawyer this on 20/20 Primetime whatever - the crowds cries are not in the subtitles) and then Pontius washes his hands and Jesus goes to die. Hardly pleasant. Not much about the movie is pleasant - it is upsetting and violent. Probably the bloodiest movie I have ever seen. Not for the faint of heart to be sure.

hank

[citizen-k]

Yes - it happens in the square(I am not a bible scholar so I don't rememebr the name of the suare) - Pontius Pilot asks the crowd to condemn Jesus and they do. Jesus is bleeding profusely from the beatings he has already suffered by the Romans. The Jewish crowd cries for Jesus to die (which Gibson toned down for the public version by the way - Gibson told Diane Sawyer this on 20/20 Primetime whatever - the crowds cries are not in the subtitles) and then Pontius washes his hands and Jesus goes to die. Hardly pleasant. Not much about the movie is pleasant - it is upsetting and violent. Probably the bloodiest movie I have ever seen. Not for the faint of heart to be sure.

hank

Is it a historical truth the Romans asked the Jews what to do after they occupied Jerusalem?!?!? :cantbeli:

[Haiw]

Not much about the movie is pleasant - it is upsetting and violent. Probably the bloodiest movie I have ever seen. Not for the faint of heart to be sure.

hank
TP, wanna go to the movies with me? ;)

[hank]

Dude - I have no idea - I am not equipped to answer the really technical aspects of this. That is what is in the Bible though. Pontius heard the claims that Jesus should die and did not want to kill Jesus and said he would let the accusers decide. The accusers being the Jews in the crowd. The crowd cries for blood, again toned down for the movie by leaving out some subtitles, and Pontius says so be it, or whatever that quote is. Then Pontius washes his hands and the Jews and Romans take Christ to his death. That is the way it is in the Gospel - some Bible expert please clarify this - and that is the way I have always known the story.

So technically - Jesus dies b/c of Pontius' decree but Pontius' decree was prompted by the Jewish accusers. That is the basis for Foxman's claims that the movie is anti-semitic and also the basis for Mel's claim that it is not. The answer, whether literal or figurative, is that we all killed Jesus - not the Romans or the Jews - it was humankind.

Some Bible expert please chime in - b/c I am not an expert - that is what happens in the movie and it is consistent with my understanding of Jesus's death.

I got to go to a sneak preview last night b/c my wife is a teacher at a Catholic elementary school and the principle arranged (through some tickets acquired by the Diocese) for the teachers to see it - lots of questions for the students about hte movie. Oddly, my wife did not go - b/c she is 8 months pregnant and could not stay up until 10:30 for the start time.

Good movie, worth seeing. I am groggy this morning b/c I was up so late. Whether the movie is historically accurate is really not the question - the movie is consistent with the Gospel, in my limited experience.

hank

[pinkeye]

let's not kid ourselves, the passion of the christ is mel gibson's particular interpretation of the gospel. newsweek, among others, recently ran an article that examined this issue.

mel gibson is a radical catholic and some of his views are rather chilling. he has publicly stated that there is no eternal salvation for those outside the catholic church. hell (oops!), he has stated that his own wife will probably be going to hell because she is episcopalian. it's rather ironic that protestants have embraced the movie. but then again, according to gibson, since protestants will be dancing with demons in the fiery depths of the underworld, they might as well spend their money on movie tickets.

having said this, however, as a cinephile, i must admit that the passion of the christ certainly looks interesting. i could give a toss about jesus; my interest lies in caleb deschanel's cinematography. even the movie nerd community, which is not known for its religious ways, has given this movie two thumbs up. for my money, i'd rather watch monty python's "the life of brian".

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian: I'm not the Messiah! Will you please listen? I am not the Messiah, do you understand?! Honestly!
Girl: Only the true Messiah denies His divinity.
Brian: What?! Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right! I am the Messiah!
Followers: He is! He is the Messiah!
Brian: Now, **** off!
[silence]
Arthur: How shall we **** off, O Lord?

[Schwabo Elite]

the new testament was written first-hand. :|

Actually no. The new testament was written at least one generation later. At least the texts that are in the bible. The evangelions were written between AD 60 and AD 100, the latest being from John (if that's the English name the apostel). Presumably none were written by the apostels themselves, at least not completely and most likely John's wasn't written by him at all, but by one of his closest followers.
The first texts, written shortly after the death of Jesus didn't make it into the bible, since the church (no not the Roman-Catholic one) didn't take them as "canonized" which in fact means they didn't fir into what was to be believed. This means that the most accurate and the oldest texts that might indeed hold information about the actual happenings and precise words of Jesus Christ were not made "the true and only word of god", because centuries later they were diffrent to what certain people would want to hear. I am not talking about the medieval times, but about late antiquity.
However not even the actual bible texts (the four evangelions and the letters an the apocalypse) that were put into the canonized book are what you read today. The first books were in aramaic (the ones that are not canonized), but the first "bible", which was only a New Testament, was the Greek written "Septuaginta". This was later translated into Latin, the so called "Vulgata". AS every intelligent human can estimate some "details" are alwys dropped if you translate, however in philosphical and religious texts the problem is that the devil rofl is in the detail and you cannot translate something so specific as the canon of a religion without loosing integral parts. The Muslims know this, for them only the ARab version of the Koran counts.
After the Vulgata the bible was often "modified" in the medieval age to make it more fitting for the two big churches, the Greek Orthodox and the Roman-Catholic, who in fact were concurring political entities.
To say it with Mr. cash's words (may he rest in peace): "Don't go mixing politics with the folk songs of our land."
The effect was an even wider corrpution of the original words and even more so the sense. Last but not least several people translated the Bible into their regional/national languages and, with this, forever splitting up the meaning of the Bible, because every diffrent Bible version was writting to serve another purpose. Several people wanted to have a bilbe for "the common people", nice idea, but worth nothing... Others, like Martin Luther wanted to prove their theories as well. This goes as far as for example leaving out to psalms in the Lutherian version compared to the German Roman Catholic version.

The Bible is by no means actually want it is said to be and any today Christians who beleive what they are told in church believe quite the opposite of what the oldest texts say Christ told his followers.
One very prominent example is "you don't need a chruch, wherever you pray there is God." This was one of the most radical thesis Jesus proclaimed, going immensely agans the might of the old Judaistic cleric, who had quite some power. Jesus was crucified, because he was against the common order. People like him were quite common in that time in this region, because the region is one of the end points of the silk road and a lot of ideas came along that way. Ranging from the nearly forgotten Mithraism (which is astonishingly close to Christ's teachings) to Buddhism, several religions are liekly to have influenced Chritianity. Alot of people like Christ were killed in that days because they were in fact insurgents, or at least close to ripping the political instable province of Palastine apart. The local men in power disliked the idea to loose power and tried to get rid of Christ. The Romans, who ruled the coutnry through the local authorities were glad, because every dead Jewish extremist (which is what Christ was for them) in these days meant less problems for them.
To show how many problems the Romans had with Palastine look up how many legions they had to have in the area. Normally provinces had none or one legion attached. The only exceptions are Britannia (two to three) and Palastine (mostly three).

SE

[Dennis79]

I wasn't planning on going to see it,but i will now.Just to see what all the jews are bitching about.

[hank]

Actually Mel Gibson is anything but radical. Granted it is his interpretation - no dispute there, sorry if I intimated otherwise.

As far as Catholic - his view is the polar opposite of radical. He merely chooses not to accept teh reforms to the Mass instituted in the 1970's at the Vatican II conference. I have been to several masses that conformed to the old standard and they are just in Latin and the music is more organ/choir and less kumbayah/folksy. The characterization of Mel as redical is merely an attempt by the media, Diane Sawyer included, to paint Mel in a bad light over his decision to make the Passion. Mel is about as redical as Mozart and other compsers who wrote liturgical music.

hank

[pinkeye]

Actually Mel Gibson is anything but radical. Granted it is his interpretation - no dispute there, sorry if I intimated otherwise.

As far as Catholic - his view is the polar opposite of radical. He merely chooses not to accept teh reforms to the Mass instituted in the 1970's at the Vatican II conference. I have been to several masses that conformed to the old standard and they are just in Latin and the music is more organ/choir and less kumbayah/folksy. The characterization of Mel as redical is merely an attempt by the media, Diane Sawyer included, to paint Mel in a bad light over his decision to make the Passion. Mel is about as redical as Mozart and other compsers who wrote liturgical music.

hank

you are arguing over semantics. technically he is a traditional catholic, but in this day and age his views are considered "radical" because they are not orthodox.

and you don't think believing that all non-catholics, including his own wife, are doomed to spend eternity in hell is not "radical"? it's 2004, not 1524. and if i remember correctly, gibson is/was a sedevacantist, that is, he "rejects" one or more of the vatican 2 popes. mel gibson is an extremist, pure and simple.

as i mentioned, monty python's "the life of brian" offers a more accurate, albeit humourous, view of the life and times of jesus.

[IronHeart_26]

Matthew 27:15-25 KJV

15. Now at that feast the govenor was wont to release unto the people a prisoner , whom they would. 16. And they had then a notable prisoner called Ba-rab'bas. 17. Therefore when they were gathered together, Pi'late said unto them, "Whom will ye that I release unto you? Ba-rab'bas, or Je'sus which is called Christ? 18. For he knew that for envy they had delivered him. 19. When he was set down on the judgement seat, his wife sent unto him saying, "Have thou nothing to do with that just man: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him." 20. But the chief priests and elders persuaded the multitude that they shoud ask Ba-rab'bas, and destroy Je'sus. 21. The govenor answered and said unto them, "Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you?" They said, "Ba-rab'bas." 22. Pi'late said unto them. "What shall I do then with Je'sus which is called Christ?" They all say unto him, "Let him be cruicified." 23. And the govenor said, "Why, what evil hath he done?" But they cried out the more, saying, "Let him be crucified." 24. When Pi'late saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, "I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it." 25. Then answered all the people, and said, "His blood be on us, and on our children.


I stand firm in my beliefs of the bible. I believe that Christ is my Savior. That though Him, I have eternal life. While I am not perfect and make mistakes daily, I am a christian. As Paul said, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.

Christ crucifiction was ordained by God. It was meant to be. Christ was made a sin, meaning he took on all mankinds sins, those that were and were to be, so that we could be saved. When Chirst was on the Cross and asked His Father why had he forsaken Him, God had not forsaken Him, He was not able to look upon Christ, He was not able to look upon the sin that Christ had taken on for mankind. Just thinking about the dispair and anguish Christ went through makes me want to weep. The magnitude of what He endured is enormous. He endured it out of love, even unto the end, He loved. He is love.

True Christian people do not by any means blame the Jewish people for the death of Christ. Christian people know and believe that the Jewish people are God's chosen ones. We all are the reason for the death of Christ. He died for all. We are all covered under the blood of Christ....we just have to have faith and believe. Noe of us are rightueous in God's eyes, we all have sinned, Christ is our savior and only though Him can we escape sin. Sin=Death. Christ = Life. We have the free gift of salvation.

Christ didn't come to change the law of God, He came to fulfill it.

Sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes here. That was not my intention. Christ gave me a precious gift one which I do not take lightly. My faith is part of my armor...my shield. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

[hank]

See the Diane Sawyer interview - Mel got asked about episcopaleans going to hell and answered "no" - maybe he is lying, I don't know.

Semantics, point taken. Still, radical to me would be someone who believeed something the pope had never advocated. In this case, many popes have advocated the service Mel follows daily. Different than current practice, to be sure. Radical, not for me. Also, make sure you understand that it is acceptable to go to a service in Latin, it is just not advocated by the current vatican. The pope may go to a service in Latin like Mel advocates, he just does not require others to do the same.

hank

[gaz]

I've got to be truthful, I'm not a religious person and I don't intend to see this film but I've found this thread quite interesting.

For the rest of you - Drudge is reporting that a woman had a coronary and died during a screening in Kansas.

http://www.drudgereport.com/

[Durandal]

Just saw it...this movie is crazy...

I guess, part of the problem, is that even though you go back to some of the pre-betrayal events, liek the Sermon onthe Mount and some images of him and mary when he was little...there is no sacrifice for the sin of man and love in it anywhere...

I have to say it was a border line snuff film...but with a resurection at the end...

I also felt that Jesus was about to go lookg for vengence at the end...

Yep, Payback starring Christ! ;)

[Beowulf]

Just saw it...this movie is crazy...

I guess, part of the problem, is that even though you go back to some of the pre-betrayal events, liek the Sermon onthe Mount and some images of him and mary when he was little...there is no sacrifice for the sin of man and love in it anywhere...

I have to say it was a border line snuff film...but with a resurection at the end...

I also felt that Jesus was about to go lookg for vengence at the end...

Yep, Payback starring Christ! ;)

I saw it today, very intense film.

I think the charges of anti-semitism are hardly accurate as the film showed the disagreement amongst the pharisees as to Jesus' treatment.

I think that there was sacrifice for all sins mentioned a couple of times, as well as the "forgive them they know not what they do" line. He also mentions love your enemy which is that much more powerful of a message when interspersed with scenes of the crucifixion.

So, I have to disagree with the idea that there is no redeeming or positive message involved, although the emphasis is definitely placed upon the suffering (passion).

[FallenAngel]

Is it a historical truth the Romans asked the Jews what to do after they occupied Jerusalem?!?!? :cantbeli:

Actually...yes. A quick run down of how this occurred.

The Jewish Sanhedren (spelling?) could not execute Jesus for blasphemy under Roman occupation. They asked Pontius to do it for them. He said no, that blasphemy against the Jewish religion was not against Roman law. So, instead, the high priests told him that Jesus was proclaiming himself "King of the Jews". Since Ceasar was King of the Jews, this WAS against Roman law and punishable by death. (the sign above Jesus says "Jesus- King of the Jews" in a moking admission of the crime he was put to death for.)

Tradition has it though, that Pontius took pity on Jesus- he was a good man, and was not advocating violence. He tried a loop-hole of his own. Every Passover, the Romans would release one prisoner condemned to death as a good faith gesture to the Jews. Pontius asked the gathered crowd which should go free: Jesus or Barabas (a Jewish zealot who killed a Roman soldier) believing the crowd would not want to see an innocent man put to death. However, tradition has minions of the high priests briding and encouraging the crowd to call for Barabas. It is also not impossible to believe that Barabas' supporters (Rebels against the Romans who would have been well known to other Jews) would have added their weight to the call for Barabas. Pontius had no choice. He released Barabas and by default, Jesus was sentenced to death. This is where Pontius washed his hands as well.

Again, that's just a quick run-down of it.

[Beowulf]

Holy Shyte dude.....

http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/653662.html

Woman Collapses During Showing of "The Passion Of The Christ"
Wichita
KAKE News

A woman collapsed in an East Wichita theatre this morning, during a showing of "The Passion Of The Christ". Peggy Law apparently suffered a heart attack. She was ****ounced dead a short time later at a Wichita medical center.

Peggy Law, also known to some by her married name Peggy Scott is a respected figure in the local broadcasting community. The tragedy has hit some here at KAKE especially hard. She was a former employee.

People viewing the movie at the Warren Theatre East say Law collapsed during the portion of the movie where the crucifixion of Christ was shown.

A few off-duty doctors and nurses who were in the audience tried to revive her. But when she was taken away in the ambulance, authorities say Law still had no pulse.

The movie has been criticized for it's graphic portrayal of Jesus' death. Religious leaders around the country and here in Wichita say people need to be prepared for the graphic brutality.

Whether Law's death and the timing in the film are related, we will never know, but religious and medical officials stress this film is not for the faint-hearted.

[Durandal]

So, I have to disagree with the idea that there is no redeeming or positive message involved, although the emphasis is definitely placed upon the suffering (passion).

Not too sure I agree. This was a very angry message, passion, or no...

I did not really get the feeling that Jesus died for our sins, but becuas of the hatred and fear of others...

I did like the film but I certainly look at it as I would any other piece of fictionary tale. The score certainly rocked. I wasn't too keen on the cinemphotography though...art film it definately is not...

Oh, and yes, I can see some border line anti-semitism...

Example: Pontius Pilate is seen in a rather kind light when documentation clearly gives evidence that the guy was fairly cruel and in the movie the guy gets pissed off at the Jews for having condemned Jesus before trial...

And if I had a quarter everytime I saw a Jew slobbering or with bad teeth I could go so the movie again for free!

The movie does not come out directly and say "Jews are bad, hate Jews" but it certainly does cast a certain amount of dispersion their way...not as individuals but as a group...

I do admire Mel Gibsons use of controversy to sell his private funded film though. This guy is going to bank BIG dollars. ;)

[Durandal]

Sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes here. That was not my intention. Christ gave me a precious gift one which I do not take lightly. My faith is part of my armor...my shield. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

I bet you were a big fan of "The Last Temptation of Christ" too...

p-)

[Vance]

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
Haha, I hear that song every Sunday... ;)

[MetalBoy]

Woman Collapses During Showing of "The Passion Of The Christ"
Wichita
KAKE News

A woman collapsed in an East Wichita theatre this morning, during a showing of "The Passion Of The Christ". Peggy Law apparently suffered a heart attack. She was ****ounced dead a short time later at a Wichita medical center.

Peggy Law, also known to some by her married name Peggy Scott is a respected figure in the local broadcasting community. The tragedy has hit some here at KAKE especially hard. She was a former employee.

People viewing the movie at the Warren Theatre East say Law collapsed during the portion of the movie where the crucifixion of Christ was shown.

A few off-duty doctors and nurses who were in the audience tried to revive her. But when she was taken away in the ambulance, authorities say Law still had no pulse.

The movie has been criticized for it's graphic portrayal of Jesus' death. Religious leaders around the country and here in Wichita say people need to be prepared for the graphic brutality.

Whether Law's death and the timing in the film are related, we will never know, but religious and medical officials stress this film is not for the faint-hearted.So where's her saviour now? :oops: Sorry don't mean to offend. I just thought it was ironic. Hopefully she's up in heaven having a good laugh with Jesus. :lol:

[fisheyestudio]

Hey howdy hey!

I saw the Passion today. Moving beyond words. I recently finished a study on the four gospels from a Jewish perspective. All the information I am now equipt with concerning the culture at the time of Christ made the movie even more rich.

Pilot asked his wife about truth...I see the same thing in many of the posts here. If you can not see it, you cannot see it, especially if you dont want to. Without doubt, God had the bible written in such a way that it is foolishness to the natural mind. But, I have yet to meet a person who was seeking after truth and honestly searching the scriptures, who has not found it (or it found them...). On the surface there are many seeming contradictions in scripture. With study, I have not found one yet that I could not rectify once I understood the historic setting and looked at the bible as a whole. I am not a "bible scholar" but I spend alot of time in the scriptures and if someone has "questions" send me a PM and I will help if I can.

As to the fact that God is in control, listen to this. The proscribed means of execution for blasphemy, as given in old testament scripture, is stoning. Isaiah 53, written in 700bc, and Psalm 22, 12-19, clearly describes crucifixtion. So isnt it interesting that the Romans allowed the occupied jewish nation to hold capitol trials and conduct executions up to a certain year. I am not pulling this out of a hat, it is recorded in the mishna and talmud by non-beleiving Jews. The year the Romans revoked this right was 30ad the year Jesus was crucified...

If you want to believe the bible was written long after the times that the letters themselves claim they were written, go ahead. If you want to allow your morality to dictate your theology, that is your God given right. But if you want to honestly seek the Truth, you will find it. I did not stop thinking when I was born again and crucified, burried, and resurrected with Jesus. Faith is an action of the mind, a choice for sure, but not a blind or ignorant choice.

Jesus blessings!
chris holloman

[mocking_loudly_died]

I only worship false idols, preferably ones in latex.

[Red]

I just saw this movie and i have to say that it was moving beyond what i expected.This is the only movie that has had me cry like a little baby but the point is that he died for my sins and that i might have a chance to be redeemed.The movie to me is not about jews or greks nor is it about hate or vengance but it is about love.Someone who i never knew was willing to lay down his life for me in the most brutal manner so that i might have a chance to have eternal life is very powerfull to me.I have to say that i believe that the bible is the truth,i believe that Jesus came to earth dies for my sins and he arose after 3 days and is seated on the right hand side of God.I do not hate Jews,the movie for me was not about jews killing him but it was about me and my sins killing him.Religion in my view is a personal relationship with my God and i dont expect some of you to understand what i mean.I suggest that you go see this movie.It will only re-enforce what you have read in the bible and bring you to a greater understanding.As for the violence,Jesus dies a very violent death and i feel if you can show savage violence in Saving Private Ryan or Kill Bill why cant i see what it was like for Jesus.

[Durandal]

...preferably ones in latex.

At least we agree on somethings...

;)

[Durandal]

I did not stop thinking when I was born again and crucified, burried, and resurrected with Jesus.

Did you move the stone to the cave or did Jesus just sort of hold it open for you?

[fisheyestudio]

Hey howdy hey!

An angel rolled it away for both of us, not so we could get out, but so anyone who Dares to look, will see that its empty.

Along that same line of thought, the "veil" in the temple showed how seperated everyone was from Gods presence, and when Jesus body died, that temple veil was torn from top to bottom in two (and it was a woven, heavy duty 4 inch thick, 30 ft tall barrier).

I do appriciate your humor, i hope some day you will appriciate mine...

Jesus blessings!
chris holloman

[Durandal]

Hey howdy hey!

Hold on a minute here...

Anyone else getting a weird Ned Flanders vibe?

[Kriz]

Hey howdy hey!

Hold on a minute here...

Anyone else getting a weird Ned Flanders vibe?

Okelidokeli

[NcDeuce]

A fellow friend of mine went to see it last night and said that the entire place was quiet for a full 5 minutes after the credits ran. She was speechless, I am going to see it tonight if possible.

[serbian boy]

Haiw, the only thing you beleive in is the dope you ****ing hippy! :fork:
Don't you dare be dissing the true religion of this earth! woot
And all you jews bitching about being persecuted, Shut The **** Up, it's not 1939 anymore, nobody gives a ****, ****ing kikes!! rofl rofl woot :slap:

[Ratamacue]

Haiw, the only thing you beleive in is the dope you f*** hippy! :fork:
Don't you dare be dissing the true religion of this earth! woot
And all you jews bitching about being persecuted, Shut The f*** Up, it's not 1939 anymore, nobody gives a ****, f*** kikes!! rofl rofl woot :slap:

-5 IQ points. I could do better things for my brain by banging a steel pot against my temple.

[serbian boy]

Dude what the **** are you? the union for protecting the jews right to bitch about everything!? rofl rofl
Man. Shut the **** up! :petting:

[Ratamacue]

-3 IQ points. At this rate I'll be a genuine Forrest Gump by midnight.

[mocking_loudly_died]

Prays for IDFM203 to come to the thread and assist with an ass whooping.

[serbian boy]

Ah no point in arguing with all of you mother-****ing kike and muslim lovers! :P
**** YEAAHHHHH!!!! :slap:

[mocking_loudly_died]

Ah no point in arguing with all of you mother-f*** kike and muslim lovers! :P
f*** YEAAHHHHH!!!! :slap:

Do you need more rope?

[serbian boy]

What the ****i are you talking about! :|

[NcDeuce]

I just got back from seeing it. It is some intense stuff. It was more riveting to me than watching the battle of Mogadishu in Black Hawk Down for the first time. Go see this flick guys...

[usa320]

People shouldnt be looking at it as "THE JEWS KILL JESUS". They should be viewing it as "Jesus gave his life for our sake".

[AFG]

What the f*** are you talking about! :|

what the f*** have you been smoking?

i wanna see this movie. my friend also said the movie theater was quiet when the credits began to roll...

[Durandal]

I heard the book was better than the movie...

[AFG]

I heard Jesus dies at the end


/sarcasm

[Vance]

Don't spoil the ending damnit!

[IronHeart_26]

I went to see it tonight. I could never find the words to describe it. I had to close my eyes several times. The theater was completely silent afterward, nobody spoke, we all just quietly left our seats.

I had come to understand some of the anguish Christ went from being a part of a bible study group, but this put a picture to it, one I will never forget. I just can't find the words to describe it.

[Durandal]

I heard Jesus dies at the end

I thought he got Mary in the end. No?

[ArmedPacifist]

... (I bet the Romans will have english upper-class accents)...

They'll be speaking Latin/'Street' Latin. Jesus, his disciples and Jewish characters will be speaking Aramaic. Some Greek might be in there too.


I can see his humour evaded you, he was talking about another Mel Gibson movie called the Patriot. How the British were protrayed as absolutely evil men, with no conscience whatsoever, while the American the movie was based on was the person who was actually a really terrible man by historical accounts, anything from the kind loving family man he is made out to be.

At least that's what I thought.

[Kriz]

Why would anyone want to see a movie bout Christ, just read the bible if you want to know about himn but a movie jeez.

Anyway, if you guys all liked it better for you then :D

[AFG]

here's some comedy to lighten up the mood

http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/false_prophets/dt13_01.html

[Beowulf]

Ah no point in arguing with all of you mother-f*** kike and muslim lovers! :P
f*** YEAAHHHHH!!!! :slap:


4. Don't use racial slurs.

Your time here is short.

[AFG]

finally something is done woot

[Sixgun Symphony]

Don't believe everything you read, it can be dangerous. Romans are not "pleasant". Pontius washes his hands of the blood already drawn by the beatings/flailings at the hands of the Romans.


Eh?

Pontius washed his hands of the whole affair because he did not want to be involved in what he saw as the execution of an innocent man.

[hank]

hexnut - what is your point? What you posted is no different than what I claimed. The point about the pleasantness was that the Romans in the film, especially Pontius are far from pleasant. They are active participants in the flailing/beating and then Pontius refuses to deny the crowd's requests to kill. YOu can make this into whatever you want, but the point is that trying to figure out "who killed Jesus" is not going to help b/c the answer, even accordgin to Mel, is "we all did".

My comment was only in reference to "pleasantness". Any characterization of the Romans in this movie as pleasant is disengenuous at best.

You need to pay more attention wingnut sycophant.

hank

[hank]

Ah no point in arguing with all of you mother-f*** kike and muslim lovers! :P
f*** YEAAHHHHH!!!! :slap:


4. Don't use racial slurs.

Your time here is short.

promises, promises - this reminds of the pm I get from serbian girl

hank

[obd]

I think everybody should just chill. I think Jews have a legit worry about this movie. The so-called Blood libal has been at the root of Jewish persecution since the original group of Jews split off to become Christians. I just finished taking a class on the history of the Holocaust and we examined the roots of anti semetic feelings going back to pre-Chritisan times and let me tell you, historically the Jews have every reason to be worried about a movie that might inflame and re-emphasize the "blood libel" and such. Just a thought......... The "Christ Killer" myth has been at center of Jewish prosecution since beginning and the Church has been, historically at least, very deeply involved in murdering and oppressing Jews.........

[JiJoMacLE45]

What gets me is people saying Jews in the movie are portrayed in a bad light. HELLO! Jesus Christ(who is Jewish) is the main freaking character. It's a movie, not a documentary. Chill out.

[WARPIG]

I think it has already been pointed out that even in the "Passion" the whole point is that Jesus died for all of us, not because someone killed him. Many portray Jews and Romans as murderers but miss the point that everyone was involved in his death. Even if you narrow your knowledge to just the movie... you still should be able to see that he was betrayed by his own, those that loved him did nothing to stop his suffering, and the Romans and Jews were only the ones who carried out his death. Even his torturers morned his suffering in the end. By his own words it was He who allowed Himself to die.

I also just watched it. Knowing what was going to happen did not change the shock you felt when faced with the disturbing images of his suffering. When the credits at the end rolled.. the people in the theatre I watched it in were silent too. It took a good 2-3 minutes before people could start filing out of the theatre.. and still in silence.

To those who find humor in poking fun at someones faith... I pity you. To show the complete disrestpect and lack of any kind of common courtesy on this thread, only amplifies the obvious ignorance and stupidity that you hide behind. Perhaps because I have recently (less than a year) acknowledged my Christian faith, I have lost my sense of humor on such things. I do think that the respect that I and most people show to other religions should be reciprocated. That includes Atheism. I have heard more damning and cynical BS from Atheists than many Jewish and Muslims. I can relate since I never claimed a faith merely a year ago. It must be insecurity. For those of you who seem to feel better about your beliefs when you have spoken or acted out against another’s… think of that. If your faith does not stand on it’s own.. then maybe your faith is what needs to be scrutinized.

[hank]

obd - that was actually a fairly coherent post. There is some lingering "blood" problem with Anti-Semitism. Don't underestimate the shylock principle when characterizing modern day antisemitism. Most people who can define why they are antiesemitc - also rememebr that most can't - dislike Jews b/s they resent the financial disparity that they perceive, however misguided, between Jews and other religions.

For years the Catholic church, specifically a succession of popes, forbade catholics to lend money based on a silly interpretation of the "camel through the eye of the needle" passage in the bible. Thus, if you needed to borrow money you had to borrow from a non-catholic and in europe that was usually a Jew. That is why Shakepseare wrote Merchant of Venice. The antisemitic tones in that play are all tied to Jew's ability to lend money. This is a real base for anti-semitic feeling and has nothing to do with Jesus' death. It is not the only basis for anti-semitism, to be sure, but it is substantial nonetheless.

That is why I say the Passion won't increase anti-semitism - b/c most Christians are 1) not anti-semitic in the first place and thus it can't be inflamed and 2) a large percentage of anti-semites don't even base their anti-semitism on religion instead basing it on cultural stereotypes unaffected by perceiving Jews as the killers of Jesus. Anybody really familiar with the Passion does not blame Jews, and the ones who do likley base their anti-semitism on this cultural reason instead of Jesus' death.

I hope that makes sense. If not speak up and I will try to clear it up.

Remeber one other thing - the movie is only anti-semitic if WE allow it. I don't blame Jews, Romans, Martians, or anybody else for Jesus' death. It was the plan from God and necessary for our survival. If we can convince enough people to think this way then we can offset the possibility that ignorant and hateful Christians will try to make Jews the scapegoats for something that was out of human control.

Also rememebr that a true Christian thinks that Buddhists, Jews, Hindus, Protestants, Catholics, ect. can all get to heaven. It is a big part of my decision to convert - if the Catholic churc htaught that non-believers cannot get into heaven then I would no want any part of it. Many believe as I do, that I will see Jews in heaven assuming I can get my s--t together b/w now and then! :D

hank

[IronHeart_26]

I think it has already been pointed out that even in the "Passion" the whole point is that Jesus died for all of us, not because someone killed him. Many portray Jews and Romans as murderers but miss the point that everyone was involved in his death. Even if you narrow your knowledge to just the movie... you still should be able to see that he was betrayed by his own, those that loved him did nothing to stop his suffering, and the Romans and Jews were only the ones who carried out his death. Even his torturers morned his suffering in the end. By his own words it was He who allowed Himself to die.

I also just watched it. Knowing what was going to happen did not change the shock you felt when faced with the disturbing images of his suffering. When the credits at the end rolled.. the people in the theatre I watched it in were silent too. It took a good 2-3 minutes before people could start filing out of the theatre.. and still in silence.

To those who find humor in poking fun at someones faith... I pity you. To show the complete disrestpect and lack of any kind of common courtesy on this thread, only amplifies the obvious ignorance and stupidity that you hide behind. Perhaps because I have recently (less than a year) acknowledged my Christian faith, I have lost my sense of humor on such things. I do think that the respect that I and most people show to other religions should be reciprocated. That includes Atheism. I have heard more damning and cynical BS from Atheists than many Jewish and Muslims. I can relate since I never claimed a faith merely a year ago. It must be insecurity. For those of you who seem to feel better about your beliefs when you have spoken or acted out against another’s… think of that. If your faith does not stand on it’s own.. then maybe your faith is what needs to be scrutinized.

I second that.

I too thought I was prepared for what I was about to see. Oh how wrong I was. I like to have never went to sleep last night. The images of when they brought out the Cat....I admit I cried. Who couldn't watch this, especially a christian, and not walk away with a new understanding of just how much He loves us. People say all the time that they would die for their children, but how many would say they would die for all mankind...all mankind, He didn't pick and choose, He gave for all. How much are we willing to give.

Farmgirl, I noticed somewhere that you said that you were going to let your daughter go. Don't let her go alone. I don't know how old she is. I went with my mother, and it was almost more than I could bear. We both had to turn away several times. I don't know anything about your faith, but even my mother and I, with very strong faith, weren't prepared for what we saw. It is very brutal.

[Trigger]

Good words WARPIG, hank, and IronHeart_26. I'm going to try to see it tonight.

[NcDeuce]

Why would anyone want to see a movie bout Christ, just read the bible if you want to know about himn but a movie jeez.

Anyway, if you guys all liked it better for you then :D

So no movies based on true stories? :roll:

[MolliG]

Bastards! It's a bloody 18! :fork: Arr, well :(...