Pakistani / Indian military

[khukuri]

Okay, listen carefully. I dont want this to be a BS thread.

I want to know your opinion, If you know anything about theese to armies. Training, doctrine, gear, quality and so on. And If you can maybe compare the two. I dont want any "this country will win" discussion sence its impossible to know. And leave the nukes out.

No ****ing flaming! Or BS comments if somebody will post an image.

I want this post for those who really want to know something. I dont know **** on both armies.

Plz guys this can be an intresting thread if those who know tell us others something about both countries.

Regards

[cut]

erm.. it's india/pakistan there are few if not none of either on this board so don't expect flamming.

and India will win hands down :P ;)

I know quite a bit about doctrine if that's what you want to hear about but be more specific, what do you want to know about?

[khukuri]

maybe everything:). Its hard to ask detalied questions, and its hard to just write down something for you maybe. I just want to make my knowledge better about this subject.

Why do you think india will win besides a bigger army? do they have better training? doctrine, and if so what how when,,, get what i Mean? :)

regards

[cut]

Simple, Pakistan is corrupt at every level. Not that India isn't but it's far worse in Pakistan, they can't even control their sovreignty. The only reason I think India has never taken advantage of this is because of their fear of China and now obviously nukes.

[Maverick77]

Although their military's are not massively differant in skill, size and equipment.

The Pakistani military is corrupt and the country is poor as ****.

Their military would not hold together as a cordinated fighting force for long in a war.

Pakistan and India? People don't even have toilets over there dude, they just go and take a **** on the beach and let the waves take there poop out to ocean. Not that it has anything to do with their military, just making a point.

[wholagun]

I know that India does alot of business with the Polish army, they buy alot of our gear, bullets, and heavy lift multi purpose stuff, ill try and find a pic

[wholagun]

India bought these from Poland. Last year they got 50 and they were pleased so they ordered another 100.

http://www.pancerni.to2.pl/transpspecprz/wzt-3-1.jpg
http://www.pancerni.to2.pl/transpspecprz/wzt-3-2.jpg
http://www.pancerni.to2.pl/transpspecprz/wzt3..jpg

[cut]

Pakistan and India? People don't even have toilets over there dude, they just go and take a **** on the beach and let the waves take there poop out to ocean. Not that it has anything to do with their military, just making a point.

you are a ignorant little ****, you know that?

[SeanAshi]

How long have they been at it over Kashmir?

[cut]

since west pakistan got it's independence

[Sabre]

Pakistan and India? People don't even have toilets over there dude, they just go and take a **** on the beach and let the waves take there poop out to ocean. Not that it has anything to do with their military, just making a point.

Actually, there is a state in India that has a 95% literacy rate. That's much higher than most western countries. Inclusing the US and the UK. (BTW, it is also communist. No, this does not mean there are no elections there anymore, before you say it. It is still governed by federal indian laws but the policies are communist. One by-product is top class education for all.)

The kashmir debacle has been going on since 1947 independance. Kashmir is technically Indian but that is not recognised by Pakistan and several other nations. Pakistan refutes allegations that it sponsors islamic fighters in the region, claiming that they are just the local populace resisting Indian 'occupation'. In fact, much of the ordinance captured by Indian forces has had Pakistani Armouries' marks on; and there is much evidence to the effect that pakistan harbours and trains these militants.

As for India, their government has forbidden its people to go to Kashmir for fear that this would inflame the situation. However, Pakistanis routinely get into Kashmir and settle their, increasing the Muslim population from a minority (1950's) to the majority. A fact the Pakistani goovernment routinely emphasises and why the Indians will not hold a vote amongs the population. On the whole, Pakistan is a one religion society. Hindus, sikhs and others were actively deported to India in the past, whereas India remains a diverse society and in terms of population, the world's largest democracy. ;)

P.S. I like India ;)

[cut]

Pakistan and India? People don't even have toilets over there dude, they just go and take a **** on the beach and let the waves take there poop out to ocean. Not that it has anything to do with their military, just making a point.

Actually, there is a state in India that has a 95% literacy rate. That's much higher than most western countries. Inclusing the US and the UK. (BTW, it is also communist. No, this does not mean there are no elections there anymore, before you say it. It is still governed by federal indian laws but the policies are communist. One by-product is top class education for all.)



Kerala isn't communist anymore, hasn't been for a few years you could buy coke there (this was 2 years ago) which you couldn't before apparently.

[cut]

India does alot of peace keeping work as does Pakistan, Im sure this helps improves the training of their Armed Forces.
India can afford to buy better equipment than Pakistan and has some fine units such as the Indian Gurka regiments.
Just because a country is poor does not mean that it's troops are not on par with bigger Western Armies, and to think otherwise is foolish!

depends what western armies, when I was there I saw a TV programme about Indian commados and they weren't anything special.

[sunnysandy]

Well Lenin you should check out http://www.bharat-rakshak.com it will answer most of your questions.

futuremarine wrote
Pakistan and India? People don't even have toilets over there dude, they just go and take a **** on the beach and let the waves take there poop out to ocean. Not that it has anything to do with their military, just making a point

rofl rofl People like you are the ones who get shocked when something like 9/11 happens,because you think every one in the third world lives in a cave :slap:


Although India has a larger Army,Pakis have better equipment.We have fought 3 conventional wars with them 1947,1965,1971.
We won all three because of numerical superiority .The Pakis had better hardware but were not to creative in their stratergy and in some cases hadnt trained with the new equipment.Otherwise the outcome could have been different.
They have changed their thinking ,they know they cant win a conventional war so are trying to bleed us in a proxy war first in Punjab & then in Kashmir.
The Ministry of Defence is filled with beuraucrats and red tapeism.There is poor coordination between the various intelligence agencies and the armed forces.
The 1999 Kargil conflict was just a hint of things to come,9/11, the attack on the Indian Parliament and rise in terrorist activities has changed alot.
Plans have been drawn for mordenising the Army,a huge shopping list is being prepared,
we went pro Soviet in the late 70s cause pakis became pals with the US who saw them as an ally against erstwhile USSR .
But now the Army wants to buy toys from various western countries.
They want to upgrade our night fighting capabilities.
Bulk of our Armour is Soviet and we use Soviet tactics which are outdated.

When it comes to infantry the tactics, thinking is British(even the language used by officers,they use words like jolly good,Old Chap rofl )equipment is mix of Soviet /warsaw pact relics.

[sunnysandy]

Sabre wrote
Actually, there is a state in India that has a 95% literacy rate. That's much higher than most western countries. Inclusing the US and the UK. (BTW, it is also communist. No, this does not mean there are no elections there anymore, before you say it. It is still governed by federal indian laws but the policies are communist. One by-product is top class education for all.)


The preamble of the Indian constitution states that it is a Sovereign,Socialist ,Secular,Democratic Republic.
Some of the policies of the government have been socialist to remove disparity between people ,be a welfare state etc.
There are two states Kerela and west bengal which had communist govts.
but nothing like the soviets or chinese


As for India, their government has forbidden its people to go to Kashmir for fear that this would inflame the situation.

Thats not true,Kashmir was once a very popular tourist spot for people from all over the world.People were just afraid to go ther since the late 80s due to increase in terrorist activities.
But now people have started visiting kashmir again,I went there last year ,its really very beautifull.


P.S. I like India

And we like Sabre :hug:

[cut]

nice to see you back on here sunny, last time I from you, you were about ride your Pulsar up to Himachal Pradesh. Where you been?

[sunnysandy]

Hey Cut was very busy this year,was preparing to clear my medicals to get into the Army.My trip was great,had a lot of fun.Leh was very beautifull.


when I was there I saw a TV programme about Indian commados and they weren't anything special

Was it on BBC world ,it was called "Commando".

Those guys were not SF .It was about a 36 day course infantry officers & men take .Its about small unit tactics etc,like the Ranger course in the US.
Its called the junior leaders commando course.Here is a linkhttp://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Articles/Article08.html

[cut]

Hey Cut was very busy this year,was preparing to clear my medicals to get into the Army.My trip was great,had a lot of fun.Leh was very beautifull.


when I was there I saw a TV programme about Indian commados and they weren't anything special

Was it on BBC world ,it was called "Commando".

Those guys were not SF .It was about a 36 day course infantry officers & men take .Its about small unit tactics etc,like the Ranger course in the US.
Its called the junior leaders commando course.Here is a linkhttp://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Articles/Article08.html

It may have been it was a couple of years ago, I know they weren't special forces, Indian special forces are supposed to be quite good.

[German_American]

Cut have you been to India with the British military, just curious I'm increasingly getting interested in the Indian/Pakistan situation just wanted to ask a few questions. How do you think the Indian military would do against a Chinese attack?, I know the himalayas and **** are in the way but arn't the Chinese starting to take claims in Kashmir. Also, I saw on this program "Hot Spots" that if India increased its Navy it could be a nice sized power. What do you think of that?

[cut]

Cut have you been to India with the British military, just curious I'm increasingly getting interested in the Indian/Pakistan situation just wanted to ask a few questions. How do you think the Indian military would do against a Chinese attack?, I know the himalayas and **** are in the way but arn't the Chinese starting to take claims in Kashmir. Also, I saw on this program "Hot Spots" that if India increased its Navy it could be a nice sized power. What do you think of that?

I went to India for work but I'm not in the military. Sunnysandy is the guy you should ask about the Indian military.

[German_American]

Thanks Cut

[cut]

about the chinese in Kashmir, I found this map.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/campaigns/kashmir/map.gif

everyone knows about the indo-pak disputes, but in 1962 China just rode into kashmir and claimed a chunk at the time India could do next to nothing about it. I don't think China would be as cheeky now India has nukes, but then they do have a lot more. Hopefully sunnysandy will comment on this when he wakes up.

[German_American]

Yeah, I'v rarly see anything about the Chinese occupation, nice map.

[sunnysandy]

In 62 ,India was a very poor Nation.We had started 5 year development plans like the soviets.The first few plans concentrated on Agriculture,Infrastructure and Heavy industries.Spending on Defence wasnt considered inmportant .
There were many reasons for this
The first priority was to become self sufficent in food production,so we could put an end to famines.
Nehru the Prime minister back then did not trust the army ,he was afraid they would sieze power like in other AfroAsian countries.
A lot of influential politicans were hardcore Gandhians who were opposed to spending money on defence
China was not considered to be a threat we had signed treaties like Panchsheel with them .& Chou en Lai had visited india just before the War.

The Army was still using World war 1 Lee Enfield bolt action rifles & other World war 2 vintage equipment.

But i dont know what the Chineese ideology behind the attack was , The land they captured is barren desolate with no economic gain.Strategically it is important to dominate the landscape.
but they had an oppurtunity to grab areas in the north east which is rich in natural gas and petrol.

In India people were outraged by the chineese attack, because there was a big hype about "Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai" (Indo Chinese brotherhood) following Chou en lais visit .
I want to find out about Chinese propaganda and public opinion about the war with India.We should ask some of the Chinese members on the board , I asked them to post some pics,arent many available here.It is considered to be a dark period in the Armies history.
.
i had read somewhere that the chineese claimed that some old maps showed Aksai Chin

[sunnysandy]

German_American said
How do you think the Indian military would do against a Chinese attack?, I know the himalayas and **** are in the way but arn't the Chinese starting to take claims in Kashmir. Also, I saw on this program "Hot Spots" that if India increased its Navy it could be a nice sized power. What do you think of that?

After 62 ,the Indian Army trained with the idea of fighting a war on two fronts ,so it raised many new units for mountain warfare etc.I think it would be a tough match.Nuke wise they can hit any target deep in India but we have limited range .

[khukuri]

thanks everybody!

For the informative answers and keaping the thread clean

[Sabre]

India does alot of peace keeping work as does Pakistan, Im sure this helps improves the training of their Armed Forces.
India can afford to buy better equipment than Pakistan and has some fine units such as the Indian Gurka regiments.
Just because a country is poor does not mean that it's troops are not on par with bigger Western Armies, and to think otherwise is foolish!

Yeah, I know the info I have is several years old, but my mate (who is Inidan) provided me with it. Facts still stand that the states had v. high literacy rates.




As for India, their government has forbidden its people to go to Kashmir for fear that this would inflame the situation.


Thats not true,Kashmir was once a very popular tourist spot for people from all over the world.People were just afraid to go ther since the late 80s due to increase in terrorist activities.
But now people have started visiting kashmir again,I went there last year ,its really very beautifull.

What I was referring to was not visitors but residents. it is possible to visit Kashmir, but very difficult to live there permanently if you are Indian.


India does alot of peace keeping work as does Pakistan, Im sure this helps improves the training of their Armed Forces.
India can afford to buy better equipment than Pakistan and has some fine units such as the Indian Gurka regiments.
Just because a country is poor does not mean that it's troops are not on par with bigger Western Armies, and to think otherwise is foolish!

India, followed by Pakistan, are the largest contributors to UN peacekeeping operations throughout the world.


SunnySandy wrote:Although India has a larger Army,Pakis have better equipment.We have fought 3 conventional wars with them 1947,1965,1971.
We won all three because of numerical superiority .The Pakis had better hardware but were not to creative in their stratergy and in some cases hadnt trained with the new equipment.Otherwise the outcome could have been different.

India has far more advanced equipment now though.

[786mine]

Well Lenin you should check out http://www.bharat-rakshak.com it will answer most of your questions.

futuremarine wrote
Pakistan and India? People don't even have toilets over there dude, they just go and take a **** on the beach and let the waves take there poop out to ocean. Not that it has anything to do with their military, just making a point

rofl rofl People like you are the ones who get shocked when something like 9/11 happens,because you think every one in the third world lives in a cave :slap:


Although India has a larger Army,Pakis have better equipment.We have fought 3 conventional wars with them 1947,1965,1971.
We won all three because of numerical superiority .

Correction bitch. Pakistan beat Indian ass in 1947 & 1965.

The Indian Defense Department also released a statement a few days back that in 1999 in Kargil, Indian soilders "faked" enemy deaths.