Difference between SF(Green Berets) & DELTA

[sunnysandy]

Could someone please explain the difference between SF & DELTA.Delta is based on the SAS ,well supposed to be above regular Army Bull**** and all that,but SF seems to do the same thing.They both act as force multipliers etc,specialise in small squad tactics etc. Most of the info i have come across is on the net,i havent had the privilige of reading any books on either the two of them,so i was hoping someone would educate me. :D

[OzMan]

Well, to start off with, SF specializes in Foreign Internal Defense (FID), which is used in a combat theatre to train indigeonous (sp?) personnel to assist in the conflict. SF I believe started doing this with the Montenyards (sp?) back in Vietnam, and did it again in Afghanistan with the Northern Alliance, helping to topple the Taliban regime, and I believe they did it in Iraq with the Kurds in the north. You can insert a small, 12 man team of SF and they make contact with the leader of the local group, then the SF build ******* and trust, and then they train the group, mostly in guerilla fighting tactics, and prepare them for whatever the mission may be.

Delta on the other hand, is a very high speed, mostly classified counterterrorist unit, developed back in 1980 for the Iranian Hostage Siege in Tehran. Developed at the same time for the same mission was SEAL Team 6, which as we all know now is called DEVGRU, or Naval Special Warfare Developement Group. Delta specializes in counterterrorism, CQB, and basically just kicking ass at any given time. They operate in small teams as well (I'm not sure how many), and deploy in a much faster fashion than SF.

That's about all I can gather now (I'm in a hurry). Hope this helps.

[kutter]

A little correction about Delta. They weren't developed due to the Hostage crisis in Iran. Delta force came about shortly after the op. oin '77 by GSG-9 to rescue airline passengers that were being held hostage at Mogadishu. Pres. Carter was impressed enough by GSG-9 that he asked Joint Chiefs if the U.S. had a similiar capability(which it did not) so Delta force was established shortly afterwards.

Just a note, Delta force and ST6 aren't America's only Anti-terrorist units. When it comes to the situations stateside the jurisdiction falls specifically with the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team(HRT). Delta forces deals mainly with terrorist situations outside of the US.

[FallenAngel]

hmm....another difference.

Special Forces= DoD:" Officially acknowledged to exist and has a glorious history of successful campaigns!" woot

"Delta" = DoD: "Who? Sorry no one by that name lives here..."

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[JTFazz]

Delta also reportedly has a CQB specialization focus unlike the Army's SF. Delta has also become more involved in domestic matters. Two such include, reportedly, the Waco siege and the WTO protests in Seattle.

Delta also provides close protection for key military leaders and also locate, recon and capture human military assets and leaders like they did in Bosnia and are probably undertaking in Iraq.

Special Forces do engage in direct action against military targets, conduct unconventional warfare, provide special recon assets and FID among other things. Their mission is not limited to FID, but that is a mission they alone provide under the Army's functional operational assets and along with the Navy's SEALs exclusively provide that to the entire DoD.

Delta, though an Army asset, takes most of its orders from USSOCOM at the DoD level vs. ARSCOM at the DA level.

[ScopeScene]

Delta was involved in Waco as advisers. Which therefore broke constitutional restrictions against using foreign assets in domestic issues.

[Piccolo]

A little correction about Delta. They weren't developed due to the Hostage crisis in Iran. Delta force came about shortly after the op. oin '77 by GSG-9 to rescue airline passengers that were being held hostage at Mogadishu. Pres. Carter was impressed enough by GSG-9 that he asked Joint Chiefs if the U.S. had a similiar capability(which it did not) so Delta force was established shortly afterwards.

Well, I'm not sure about the Carter thing, I suppose he gave the go-ahead, but Beckwith had the idea ever since his training tour with the 22nd in 62.

[shaky]

Delta was involved in Waco as advisers. Which therefore broke constitutional restrictions against using foreign assets in domestic issues.


"Additionally, there are indications that Delta Force trains extensively with the two other American hostage-resuce teams, the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team, or HRT, and Seal Team Six, and the reasons should be obvious. Federal regulations prevent military units from operating inside the United States in law enforcement situations, but do allow some forms of coordination and support. In a domestic hostage situation, the FBI's HRT would be the lead agency. Delta Force might be tasked to draw up the plan of attack itself, provide insight into the terrorists' motivations, or serve as technical observers. For instance, if a mortar were needed to punch through a cement wall, Delta Force might provide the equipment, aim it, and show the FBI weapons agent how to push the button that actually fires the weapon. For offshore (perhaps an oil platform outside the twelve-mile limit) or marine hostage rescues, Delta Force would operate closely with Seal Team Six."

Taken from Colonel Beckwith's book.

[Beowulf]

Everything you've ever wanted to know about Delta
http://www.delta.com/home/index.jsp

[PSYWAR1-0]

:bash: Bad Beowulf, Bad I say. For that Im going to send you to war on a deployment order, no Per Diem for you :lol:

Luke, TL 924/932

One of the last of the Buker Street Bad Boys

[bishop1]

Yeah Piccolo is right, Charging Charlie wanted to create a CT unit based on the SAS long before the hostage incident in Iran, and it was actually created 6 months before the Iran incident, but that was their first mission.

[Beloved Shiv]

(Facetious mode ON) Well now, let's just hold off until we get the word from MaxximusUSA on how Delta doesn't exist and is really just the creation of the popular media (we all know how much the popular media loves our military forces) ..

[JiJoMacLE45]

JSOC assets are exempt from the Posse Comitatus Act under PDD-25. However their use in a domestic law enforcement situation would require its members to be subject to grand jury investigations which would make the operators identifications public. So to avoid this, they stick to the 'advisor' capacity when used at home.

[EliteWolf]

Delta also reportedly has a CQB specialization focus unlike the Army's SF.

thats not entirely correct, special forces groups like the 10th and 5th sfg all train constantly for cqb/urban combat using a much more advanced set of tactics from standard MOUT, this advanced cqb is known as AUC if im not mistaken. it uses theories and strategies from the SAS. Delta uses the same tactics as SF, with a little improvision of their own im sure.


Delta was involved in Waco as advisers. Which therefore broke constitutional restrictions against using foreign assets in domestic issues.

I read an article not to long ago saying the Delta Force was involved directly in the waco siege, it said they were at the back of the compound out of view of the press and were shooting people trying to escape out the back door when all hell broke loose. it also said delta and the 160th SOAR were involved in live fire exercises in civilian populated towns in texas, ill find the URL of the article for you guys.

PS, why is everybody so obsessed with the delta force, ever since BHD all i ever hear is delta delta delta! :backhand: :backhand: :backhand:

[EliteWolf]

heres the article about the live fire exercises in civilian towns http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=16973

heres an article About some things that happened in mogadishu not seen on the movie http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26263

and lastly heres the article talking about deltas involvement in the waco siege http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=13041

enjoy.

[JiJoMacLE45]

No one could come out of the back of the compound because that was the part that was most heavily engulfed in flames. There were no doors at the rear of the compound just windows, and flames were pouring out of all of them. A few Davidians did come out of the front of the building. Some ran back inside to die in the fire. As HRT members moved towards the compound, they came under fire from Davidians. One HRT man went into the building and pulled out one of the Davidians who had emerged and then went back into the building. The closest observation point to the compound was 600 yards away on the front side, the nearest eyes on spot to the rear was close to a mile away. It was all open fields surrounding the place and the Davidians had .50 cal rifles and there was no way anyone was getting close enough to get hit by those fifties.

I have seen a few of these articles that claim Delta was sniping Koresh's holy people as they exited the building. Those articles also talk about how three of the Delta men at the seige died in training accidents over the next few years. Good job by the conspiracy theorists. One Special Forces sergeant who they claim was at Waco with Delta was 23yo when he drowned in 1996 or 1997. He would have been 19 or 20 when he was with Delta shooting people. Give me a break. So here's a kid a year out of high school and he is a Delta sniper killing Americans. Yup. Sure.

As far as JSOC doing urban assault training in American cities, the myth is true. About ten years ago they conducted a night time helicopter assault on an empty housing project in Chester, PA, an inner city neighborhood just south of Philadelphia. Needless to say, their training exercise scared the bejesus out of the local criminal element thinking the Chester PD was warming up for an all out assault on crime. A hearty thanks went out from my pop and the CPD boys who were a little less busy over the next few weeks thanks to the men from Bragg.

[shaky]

Delta uses the same tactics as SF, with a little improvision of their own im sure.

Delta does not use the same tactics as other Army SF groups. When created, Beckwith and his staff created a training/tactic program that was unlike anything in the US Army, hence the need for Delta in the first place.

[venture160]

something cimilar using civilian facilities took place in my town as well, about 2 years ago the local paper ran a gave our town heads up that Special Forces would be using an old abandoned mental hospital that is HUGE, for live fire training, the town government got a lot of heat for it.

[GearGod]

DELTA Facts: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/sfod-d.htm
SF Facts: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/arsfc.htm

[kutter]

Just out of curiousity, I've always wondered why the U.S. needs three different anti-terrorist teams. I understand that the FBI HRT is domestic, Delta Force is foreign and ST6 is maritime but is there a reason for that? If you look at other countries they only have one unit(ie. SAS CRW squadron, GIGN, GSG-9, JTF-2, etc) to cover all terrorist situations, regardless of where it takes place.

[JTFazz]

Delta also reportedly has a CQB specialization focus unlike the Army's SF.

thats not entirely correct, special forces groups like the 10th and 5th sfg all train constantly for cqb/urban combat using a much more advanced set of tactics from standard MOUT, this advanced cqb is known as AUC if im not mistaken. it uses theories and strategies from the SAS. Delta uses the same tactics as SF, with a little improvision of their own im sure.


Delta was involved in Waco as advisers. Which therefore broke constitutional restrictions against using foreign assets in domestic issues.

I read an article not to long ago saying the Delta Force was involved directly in the waco siege, it said they were at the back of the compound out of view of the press and were shooting people trying to escape out the back door when all hell broke loose. it also said delta and the 160th SOAR were involved in live fire exercises in civilian populated towns in texas, ill find the URL of the article for you guys.

PS, why is everybody so obsessed with the delta force, ever since BHD all i ever hear is delta delta delta! :backhand: :backhand: :backhand:

Wolf you will note that I said SF, meaning from my perspective that I was referring to Special Forces or the United States Army Special Forces Command (Airborne) (USASFC (ABN)), aka Green Berets. Special Forces does not in army vernacular refer to the 10th Mountain or even the 75th Ranger Regiment. Special Operations is the generic term to refer to them within the army, at least the army I was a part of for 14 years. All army Special Forces are Special Operations, but not all Special Operations are Special Forces.

The primary focus of USASFC (ABN) is not CQB. They certainly have that resource and ability, but it is not their focus. FID is their primary peacetime mission, but that primary mission gets spread out in wartime among other things as delineated in my previous post.

As for why everyone is fascinated by Delta, I think it is simple. It is because there is a vacuum of information out there and human nature wants it filled.

[Beowulf]

:bash: Bad Beowulf, Bad I say. For that Im going to send you to war on a deployment order, no Per Diem for you :lol:

Luke, TL 924/932

One of the last of the Buker Street Bad Boys

LMFAO yeah tell me about, oh and CA...they were getting full per diem in the Stan, while we were getting $3.50 a day. We lived in the same safe house and same command, gotta love that sh*t. BOHICA

[sunnysandy]

Thanks for all the replies.Well i know that DELTA selects its own people ,no volunteers.But what about SEAL TEAM 6,i have read ****s Rogue Warrior.Initially he picked up the SEALs.But what about the present,do they follow simmilar selection like DELTA?

[Duke]

Since the end of the Civil War with several later revisions, the Posse Comitatus Act forbade the Navy, Army and Air Force to domestically "...execute the laws." unless ordered by Congress. In Waco, the FBI acted to enforce the laws with Delta advising to "execute the laws.", a huge legal barrier. This has changed since the sarin gas attack in Japan in 1995. Clinton issued an executive order exempting both DevGru and Delta from the Posse Comitatus.

[GearGod]

It is said DELTA operatives are recruited from SF or Rangers. Which do you think would give you more experience? SF does more UW stuff whereas Rangers does more DA stuff.. Hmm.. Perhaps both? Like you get into rangers 1 term(6 years) then into SF, then into DELTA.. Then when your kinda old.. into CIA! Hahaha

[FallenAngel]

Since the end of the Civil War with several later revisions, the Posse Comitatus Act forbade the Navy, Army and Air Force to domestically "...execute the laws." unless ordered by Congress. In Waco, the FBI acted to enforce the laws with Delta advising to "execute the laws.", a huge legal barrier. This has changed since the sarin gas attack in Japan in 1995. Clinton issued an executive order exempting both DevGru and Delta from the Posse Comitatus.

I notice the USMC is not in that list as being forbidden in the US....wouldn't that be the same as the National Guard being exempt to?

[Duke]

The NG and USMC/Navy are not under the PC Act for different reasons. Let me explain.
Every state has a NG and the commander in chief (I dont know the new designation if any) of each NG is the Governor of that state. In times of national disasters NG units can be "called up" by the president into federal jurisdiction. So, the NG doesnt fall under the PC Act since they are literally state armies.
The omission of the Navy Department from the PC Act is due to the need of a maritime homeland defense. Yes we have a CG, but we have historically viewed the Navy Departement as intrinsically defending our shores.
For example during the LA riots the Marines were called up. In a funny story a LAPD officer serving a warrant asked several patrolling Marines to "cover me." They did, in military fashion with intense suppressive fire. Fortunately, no one in the house was injured.

[GearGod]

SF = Diplomatic Soldiers
Delta = Foreign HRT

[Apogee]

SF = Diplomatic Soldiers
Delta = Foreign HRT

Thats not essentializing those units at all. But since there are so many SOF based out of Ohio, he would know.

[GearGod]

lol it was something nice to say at the time

[ODB000]

So why does someone from India want to know about sensitive US units anyway?

[GearGod]

Lets not get all opsec-sensitive now shall we?

[sunnysandy]

Well it all started when as a lil kid i saw Chuck Norris & Lee Marvin kick some ass in DELTA FORCE,the curiosity increased more thanks to novalogic and all those games.I guess i have said enough ;)

[GearGod]

For me it all started with how I kinda liked SWAT stuff that I saw as a little kid on TV then I saw PC games that featured SWAT and my interest increased-- I then found out about Rainbow Six which was primariliy responsible for my huge military interest-- I then was interested in Navy SEALs etc. I then found out about airsoft its military simulations which got me interested in infantry-type combat-- All this eventually led to me wanting to join the Armys 75th/101st -- Now some may talk **** about airsoft/movies/pc games but take a look at how it got my military interest-- I wonder what got other people in

[Apogee]

I think it was G. I. Joe for me.

[sunnysandy]

Wasn't one of the GI Joes a Green Beret, i guess the guy was called FLINT.Lady jane was my favourite.
:P

[a. enders]

Easy to spot my interest.Grandfather (mothers side) was in the Air Corps (thats right,Corps).Garndfather (fathers side) was in the Army during Korea (in a rocket battery I believe),Aunt was in the Army as a rotor pilot,her husband (my uncle) a Marine in Veitnam,both parents were A4 mechanics in Guantanamo Bay.Dad was on a carrier once,don't think he liked it.Cousin and her husband in the Army,nother cousin in the Navy.

Heh.Kinda funny.



And Flint was the coolest GI Joe.

[Beowulf]

I always wanted to be sent to prison by a military court for a crime I didn't commit and then promptly escape from a maximum security prison into the Los angeles underground. Then, still wanted by the government I would survive as a soldier of fortune. There's still time, you never know.....bum da bum bumm bum da bum p-)

[Beowulf]

and Snake Eyes was the coolest...

[Scrim]

For all you wannabes who dreamed of joining Cobra.mcsweeneys.net/2002/01/02cobra.html