Royal Marines "failed by poor kit"

[Steve Andrews]

More than 80 Royal Marines have returned from a winter training exercise with frostbite amid allegations that they had been making do with sub-standard sleeping bags

http://www.modoracle.com/?page=http://www.modoracle.com/news/detail.h2f?id=4714&category=12&refresh=293DEB5F-DC2A-48FC-8838B977CF4CD404

[Herrmannek]

It's so British...:)

[oldsoak]

This is the bit that pisses me off - I can go down to my local surplus store and lo behold, heres a few Artic down sleeping bags in top nick. Some poor b*gger is getting frostbite because his issue kit isnt as good as the surplus stuff in the shops. And guess what, they've got body armour for sale and yes, it does have the ceramic plates front and back - all in mint.
Its pants, it really is.

[Argyll]

Surprise Fokin Surprise!!

[Gringo]

The MoD really need to get their arm - let alone their thumb - out of their arse! :bash:

[Argyll]

The MoD really need to get their arm - let alone their thumb - out of their arse! :bash:

Its even harder to see with your head up there as well!!

[khukuri]

In sweden we sometimes have the same probs, i could fins things min my local surplus store that i needed myself/bought. Totally crazy!


This is the bit that pisses me off - I can go down to my local surplus store and lo behold, heres a few Artic down sleeping bags in top nick. Some poor b*gger is getting frostbite because his issue kit isnt as good as the surplus stuff in the shops. And guess what, they've got body armour for sale and yes, it does have the ceramic plates front and back - all in mint.
Its pants, it really is.

[ogukuo72]

Here's a suggestion: in Singapore, the QM don't issue much of the kits anymore.

Instead, each serviceman (including reservists) is given a certain number of "points" or credits per year, which they can then spend at any approved military equipment stores. These stores are not Ministry of Defence related but private enterprises.

These stores have to carry a standard list of kit that servicemen would need, but they are free to sell other stuff as well.

Most of these stores are very well stocked. I got a pair of Nomex Aviator's Gloves (Summer) for about $15, a pair of light Gotex combat boots (feels like track shoes with high backs) for about $50, a pair of running shoes (New Balance) for $25, and a Camelback for $25.

[Kampfhamster]

that sounds interesting, can you tell us more about?

Unfortunately, the swiss army would never adopt such a system. :roll:

[mustamato]

The Ministry of Defence said the number of soldiers who had returned was higher than usual. But a spokesman insisted that the marines from 3 Commando Brigade, who were provided with a sleeping bag, a Goretex bivvy bag and a roll mat, had "the best equipment in the world".

We are talking about a three month exercise in a Nordic country, yeah they
must have their heads up their asses. More realistic would have been using a
3-man tent, sleeping "gayish close" the soldiers keep each others warm, also
you can use a heater (although it gives you away due to the IR-heat). One
squad can have one of those tents, the rest in the squad have watch etc while
3-4 soldiers are sleeping. It can be complemented with i.e. a Barracuda
camo/IR-net, then a heater can be used as well, and the total weight distributed
in the squad with tent/net would be like ~10 kg. And each man will have his
bivvy bag as a backup in his backpack.

http://www.tentenshows.nl/Tenten/Hilleberg/image/hilleberg_keron_gt.jpg
Hilleberg Keron GT

But using only the? "Bivvy bag"? :cantbeli:

[digrar]

I think everyone knows a private, who under that system would manage to come back with a bag of magic beans and would have to take a plastic bag out bush to carry all of his kit because he hasn't got a pack.
It suppose it would put a stop to the lowest bidder supplying the soldiers with the worst kit scenario. Which can only be a good thing.

[oldsoak]

Digrar said

I think everyone knows a private, who under that system would manage to come back with a bag of magic beans and would have to take a plastic bag out bush to carry all of his kit because he hasn't got a pack.

rofl

- that or come back with some f*ck off survival knife that would make a bear p*ss itself

- yep, got two of them, both newbies.

[Sabre]

This is bollocks. Beyond the normal GS sleeping bag there is only the Down arctic one.

mustamato has shown the type of four season tent that is necessary for troops to carry in nordic condidtions. in addition, troops would need the issue bivvy bag and down sleeping bag. Why can I pick one of these up from any well known surplus store while the MoD can not supply them to frontline troops.

[sethen]

Hey, even we Americans get issued **** equipment sometimes.

The LBV I got was horrible!!!!!!

[ogukuo72]

that sounds interesting, can you tell us more about?

Unfortunately, the swiss army would never adopt such a system. :roll:

I'm afraid I'm only familiar with the "user-end" of the system. Not too sure about the back-end administration.

I have to clarify - the first set of basic kit is issued from QM when the freshly minted private, sergeant or 2nd Lieutanent arrives at his first unit. Subsequent replacement or additional kits are then obtained through purchase from those stores using points.

This system may not be for every country. I'm afraid my country has a bit of obsession with privatisation. But I must admit, I like this system, especially as it enables the individual serviceman or reservist to meet what they REALLY need, rather than what the government says they need. It also helps to make available non-standard issue stuff at an affordable price.

[kinghk]

http://www.tentenshows.nl/Tenten/Hilleberg/image/hilleberg_keron_gt.jpg
Hilleberg Keron GT

But using only the? "Bivvy bag"? :cantbeli:

You need something like this:
http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/vinter.jpg

[Gringo]

Hey, even we Americans get issued **** equipment sometimes.

The LBV I got was horrible!!!!!!

You fail to realize (as does Hoon(WANKER!!!)) that we always get issued with **** kit.

[OldRecon]

You need something like this:
http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/vinter.jpg

Ah, gale, snowdrift and a 5-sheet woot.
Reminds me about a certain "company trip to Sweden" near Skibotn way back. Weather similar and we still had far to go before bivouac.
This some kind of platoon HQ? (the BV 206 with telescopic radio mast. Originaly for VHF? In my unit they also used that thing as a base for HF dipole)

[marktigger]

Hey, even we Americans get issued **** equipment sometimes.

The LBV I got was horrible!!!!!!

Saw alot of **** US kit in the Gulf alot of ours is alot better than it used to be.

There is a new sleeping bag system being looked at to replace the GS bag any one have any info on it.

[martinexsquaddie]

the new sleeping system is going to be snugpack softie a 2 season inner and a four season outer
unfortunatly there's no budget for it at the mo :(
that was my brothers briefing on it

[mustamato]

the new sleeping system is going to be snugpack softie a 2 season inner and a four season outer
unfortunatly there's no budget for it at the mo :(
that was my brothers briefing on it

And they can be used together making it a extreme weather sleeping bag?
The Swedish armies sleeping bag system is one "light" and one "heavy".

http://www.recon.se/Sovsackar/Carinthia/Sovsack2000_sommar.jpg
Light "summer"

Light bag usable (comfort level) down to + 5 Celsius, however if you sleep
with underwear in a bivuac and so forth it can be used to -5 probably. I
have myself slept in it in about -2 and I was sleeping like a king.

http://www.recon.se/Sovsackar/Carinthia/Sovsack2000_vinter.jpg
Heavy "winter"

Heavy sleeping bag usable to -17 Celsius (comfort level). If Light and
heavy bag is used together, they can be used (comfort level) down
to -40 Celsius. Combined weight is 2.9 kg (light, 1 kg, heavy 1.9 kg).

[marktigger]

when i was looking at getting my own bag I took advice from a number of outward bounds shops before buying a Vango bag all warned me of snug pac as many felt they were optimistic in their temp claims.

[oldsoak]

They are optimistic - I had a softie 9 and felt a lot colder in it than I thought I should given the ambient temperature. Agunjilak are supposed to be better in their ratings. The two bag idea is a good one rather than the single current GS.

[kinghk]

You need something like this:
http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/vinter.jpg

Ah, gale, snowdrift and a 5-sheet woot.


Nah, it is atleast 7 sheets, probably a couple extra for double top and entrance also.




Reminds me about a certain "company trip to Sweden" near Skibotn way back. Weather similar and we still had far to go before bivouac.
This some kind of platoon HQ?

Nope.

[OldRecon]

You need something like this:
http://www.xbox-connection.com/hostedimages/vinter.jpg

Ah, gale, snowdrift and a 5-sheet woot.


Nah, it is atleast 7 sheets, probably a couple extra for double top and entrance also.




Reminds me about a certain "company trip to Sweden" near Skibotn way back. Weather similar and we still had far to go before bivouac.
This some kind of platoon HQ?

Nope.

Yes remember, the 5 sheets would be a bit more boxy in shape.
Didn't think those sheet thents were too bad when I did my conscript basic, but during my last reservist call up we had squad tents with multifuel stove. Man that was pure luxury hotel. And best the multifuel wasn't that bad to clean out either. In technical principle somewhat like the Damascus stoves we had for heating of our prefabs in Lebanon, only much, much better.