Law Enforcement off duty carry rules?

[ThePunisher]

Currently I'm in the Marine Corps and plan on staying in for a little while, but when I do get out I'll go into some type of law enforcement, most likely federal. To make a little bit of extra money, I work at a local gun range on the weekends and carry a Glock. I love my Glock, but I truly appreciate a 1911. I would like to purchase a loaded Springfield MC Operator, or a Kimber Warrior. I'd really like a Wilson, but I have to pay the bills too.

So my question is this: what type of rules do most federal law enforcement agencies have about their agents carrying off duty? I would guess that they limit them to some type of Double action pistol, and would frown upon the single action 1911 style. Does anyone know what agencies do and do not allow a 1911? Your help is greatly appreciated.

I want to buy a 1911, but I can't justify dropping over a grand on one if I'll never be able to carry it. If thats the case then I'll just stick with my Glock. Thanks a ton.

[Kalahari Illegal]

My guess is that it probably varies by state.

[Dominique]

It's not really the state, but what your agency says. Some fed agencies don't allow you to carry your duty weapon off duty.

[ZoneOne]

It's not really the state, but what your agency says. Some fed agencies don't allow you to carry your duty weapon off duty.

If you are still unsure, read this post again
To add just a bit...
Some agencies give you the option on what weapon to carry, depending on your preference. Others, won't leave you with an option at all. What you get is what you use.

[ThePunisher]

So noone knows of any federal off duty firearms restrictions?

[Laconian]

It depends on the agency. Many agencies that have statutory carry authority, that is there is a Federal law authorizing the carry of firearms, allow, and some encourage, carry 24/7. I don't know of any Federal agency that mandates off-duty carry.

There are other Federal agencies that are deputized carry. The agents are authorized to carry on-duty only. In some cases, when they go home, the gun stays locked up at the office. This is true of many of the uniformed Fed agencies.

There are some Fed agencies that still allow the carry of "approved" weapons. Most, though have gone to an issued gun and that and the issued ammo is what you carry, period. On- or off-duty.

[Tielir999]

I know that if you are an FBI Special Agent you can carry a firearm off duty

[Whoami88]

I personally believe that it should be required to be carried. Being off duty doesn't mean that its not your responsbility to serve the public while your off.

[Laconian]

In addition to agency policy that dictates whether or not you can carry off duty, as a Fed, you also have to know if the state you are in recognizes your agency as having "peace officer" status. For example, just because you are a Special Agent with the Bureau of Minting & Engraving, doesn't mean you have lawful authority intervene to a fight that occurs in your presence. You can of course intervene, as a private citizen, but you have no magic powers of arrest just because you work for a Federal agency.

I know it sounds strange, but this whole carrying heat thing is a complicated business.

[Dominique]

And as stated before, the ones that do allow you to carry of dutey will usually rstrict the type of weapon and ammo you are allowed to use. They may also require you to run through their qualification course with your off duty weapon.

[Geezah]

I thought a Statewide law was signed in, where off duty LE could carry 24/7, why doesn't this apply to Federal Agents as well???
If I'm wrong on this.......whoopsy...

[Dominique]

While the state may allow you to carry, if the agency you work for says you can't do it, you don't.

[Laconian]

Geezah, are you referring to what used to be HR218? If so, that applied to state, local and retirees. It did not, as far as I know cover, all Federal agencies. Specifically, because there are Fed agents/officers, that only have law enforcement status/carry privileges on duty. For example, what used to be US Customs Inspectors, the uniformed folks at ports/airports, only had carry authority on duty and only for those laws that pertained to their jobs. However, US Customs Special Agents, had 24/7 carry authority, on or off-duty.

Also, various state laws still regulate when an offcier may intervene. For instance, some for all misdemeanors, or only violent felonies, etc. The standard answer is it depends...

[Geezah]

Many thanks......

[rk]

Are you asking whether a federal agency would care about the type of privately owned firearm you carry while off duty?

If so, the answer is no.



Currently I'm in the Marine Corps and plan on staying in for a little while, but when I do get out I'll go into some type of law enforcement, most likely federal. To make a little bit of extra money, I work at a local gun range on the weekends and carry a Glock. I love my Glock, but I truly appreciate a 1911. I would like to purchase a loaded Springfield MC Operator, or a Kimber Warrior. I'd really like a Wilson, but I have to pay the bills too.

So my question is this: what type of rules do most federal law enforcement agencies have about their agents carrying off duty? I would guess that they limit them to some type of Double action pistol, and would frown upon the single action 1911 style. Does anyone know what agencies do and do not allow a 1911? Your help is greatly appreciated.

I want to buy a 1911, but I can't justify dropping over a grand on one if I'll never be able to carry it. If thats the case then I'll just stick with my Glock. Thanks a ton.

[Laconian]

Are you asking whether a federal agency would care about the type of privately owned firearm you carry while off duty?

If so, the answer is no.

I disagree. If you are caught using/carrying an unauthorized weapon/ammo, the agency can rule that you are acting outside the scope of your employment and you and you alone become responsible for all legal and civil actions that come your way. You would also lose any claim you have as a Fed to qualified immunity, which protects agents performing on behalf of the G.

For instance you are carrying an unauthorized piece and intervene and save the day. Although you might not get prosecuted legally (state of Federal court), your agency can rule you were working outside the scope of your employment, fire you (for violating policy) and leave you open to civil tort.

[California Joe]

This is a case where it's simply up to the particular agency. Wait and buy the pistol later when you have been given clear instructions from whatever police force you join. I could carry anywhere in Maryland and they didn't have a policy as to what I had to carry off duty. Course I still had a wheel gun....p-)

[Laconian]

CJ,
Didn't I see you working the door at the Last Supper?

[ibstolidude]

So my question is this: what type of rules do most federal law enforcement agencies have about their agents carrying off duty? I would guess that they limit them to some type of Double action pistol, and would frown upon the single action 1911 style. Does anyone know what agencies do and do not allow a 1911? Your help is greatly appreciated.

No offense, but given that you did not even state you are in the pipeline with a given agency, wouldn't buying a gun simply to maybe carry, if you get into X agency, and if the rules don't change seem a little silly.


If you like to be that prepared, I have some lightsaber batteries I can sell you. I know they aren't out yet, but what the hey - they maybe later.

Buy the gun you like, can afford, and suits your needs. If you get hired on at a fed, you'll be able to get your pistol then.

Good luck w/your purchase.

[California Joe]

CJ,
Didn't I see you working the door at the Last Supper?


rofl Here's me keeping an eye on Judas....

http://www.lequotidienducinema.com/seriestv/aaronspelling/hooker.jpg

[Laconian]

You ARE the MAN!!

Could you teach me how to throw the side-handled baton like Heather Locklear or keep my hair dome in place as good as Adrian Zmed? I'd be obliged...

[California Joe]

No problem. It's all in the wrist. I have great hair you know.

I don't know what the hell I was doing with my finger on the trigger there....:roll:

[rk]

I don't think you read what I wrote.

_No_ agency has the authority to regulate the sorts of legal, privately owned weapons you can carry while OFF DUTY.

You may not be able to use your POW on the job (It's not approved), and you might not be able to carry your duty weapon while off-duty (It's not yours), but those questions are unrelated to what was asked.

I'll condition my statement by saying that if you're carrying a nonstandard weapon, you should probably think twice before engaging in quasi-police enforcement activities. You won't get fired for employing lethal force where it was appropriate, but if you midjudge the situtation and shoot somebody that didn't need shooting with a black talon, you're likely to be worse off than you otherwise would have been.


I disagree. If you are caught using/carrying an unauthorized weapon/ammo, the agency can rule that you are acting outside the scope of your employment and you and you alone become responsible for all legal and civil actions that come your way. You would also lose any claim you have as a Fed to qualified immunity, which protects agents performing on behalf of the G.

For instance you are carrying an unauthorized piece and intervene and save the day. Although you might not get prosecuted legally (state of Federal court), your agency can rule you were working outside the scope of your employment, fire you (for violating policy) and leave you open to civil tort.

[Dominique]

That's not quite true, at both the Sheriff's Office, and the Regional Jail, I had to sign an agreement not to carry a weapon of any type, on or off duty, until I received written permission to do so. I had a choice not to sign the agreement, but then I wouldn't have been working thier very long.

[Laconian]

rk
Every agency has the authority to tell you what you will or will not carry on or off duty. Some are more liberal allowing for anything from your duty gun to anything, or "these calibers or models are ok, but these are not"...I know for awhile some gun writers suggested that cops get concealed carry permits so they could carry off duty, but not under color of their badge.

Guess what? Then cops started getting involved in stuff and reverted to "I'm a cop" when they found they were personally liable for what they did (good or bad). So a bunch of agencies (mine included) wrote orders that forbid employees from possessing CCW permits. If you carry, you carry under color of your office. If your carry something unauthorized you can face disciplinary action up to and including firing (termination). Like I said, the use of force might be legally justifiable, but you may be open for civil liability and disciplinary action by the agency.

[rk]

Laconian,

I concede the point. If your department has an established policy requiring job applicants to waive their second amendment rights as a condition for employment, then you're stuck carrying whatever happens to be approved.

How does that work with hunting/pinking/target shooting? Are you required to get special permission?

Do you know if these policies have ever been challenged and upheld?


rk
Every agency has the authority to tell you what you will or will not carry on or off duty. Some are more liberal allowing for anything from your duty gun to anything, or "these calibers or models are ok, but these are not"...I know for awhile some gun writers suggested that cops get concealed carry permits so they could carry off duty, but not under color of their badge.

Guess what? Then cops started getting involved in stuff and reverted to "I'm a cop" when they found they were personally liable for what they did (good or bad). So a bunch of agencies (mine included) wrote orders that forbid employees from possessing CCW permits. If you carry, you carry under color of your office. If your carry something unauthorized you can face disciplinary action up to and including firing (termination). Like I said, the use of force might be legally justifiable, but you may be open for civil liability and disciplinary action by the agency.

[Laconian]

It doesn't affect hunting or competitive shooting, only what you are carrying on your hip. If I shoot one of my guns in IPSC or IDPA (and its not my duty gun), I wear my duty piece to the match, shoot what I 'm going to shoot in, then switch back for the ride home.

Not really sure you can challenge the policy, it's like mandating a dress code. You want the job follow the rules, if not find an agency that has a more permissable policy.