France Passes Law Requiring Soldiers to Disobey Orders they Feel are Illegal

[BoyElroy]

January 31, 2006 Tuesday 3:30 PM EST

HEADLINE: French soldiers can disobey orders

DATELINE: PARIS, Jan. 31

France has quietly passed a new military regulation stipulating soldiers must disobey orders deemed illegal.

The new measure comes in the wake of an ongoing scandal surrounding the killing of an Ivorian by French peacekeeping troops stationed there.

The requirement was officially published in late December, but didn't come to light until Tuesday, when the regional Ouest-France newspaper reported the change.

Soldiers must now disobey orders they judge to be ethically wrong -- even if they come from the highest echelons of authority.

Two French peacekeeping soldiers are blamed for last May's killing of Firmin Mahe, an Ivorian suspected of killing and raping people in the western part of Ivory Coast. The soldiers argue they were only following orders from their superior -- who alleges he was ordered to kill Mahe by the former head of France's peacekeeping operation there.

The ongoing investigation into Mahe's killing has further soured France's relations with Ivory Coast, its former colony.

Both Ivorian President Laurent Gbagbo and rebel leaders periodically accuse Paris of supporting the other side.

France has roughly 4,000 forces stationed alongside U.N. troops to help enforce a shaky peace in the West African country.

LOAD-DATE: February 1, 2006

[ogukuo72]

So what happens if I believe that sending me into a situation where I am in danger of being injured or killed is illegal?

[One?]

Thats good now you can't blame your superior officer for killing and torturing someone. You can simply refuse. And if you carry it out you will be held liable.

[sickened]

Thats good now you can't blame your superior officer for killing and torturing someone. You can simply refuse. And if you carry it out you will be held liable.

This is a much needed law for peacekeepers and long overdue. It will not be a problem for profesionals, just conscripts and amature soldiers could abuse this...?

[Legia]

Idont like it. Disobeying a superiors order? Sounds unreal, its the superiors resposibility to act by the "big" book.

[futurepilot2004]

Is it not a common practice in most countries?
Our oath includes a line along the lines of swearing to follow all lawful orders.

[Atlantic Friend]

Hardly surprising. French civil servants are already required to disobey any order that is both illegal and likely to cause a public disorder.

[rhino]

ahh those french, always looking for ways to reinforce the left flank

[Atlantic Friend]

ahh those french, always looking for ways to reinforce the left flank

Are you crazy Canucks of the opinion that every order given by a superior is legitimate ? ;)

[Hullebullen]

I thought the Nurnberg trials already had this issue covered?
Can someone with a bit more knowledge elaborate on this?

[rhino]

Are you crazy Canucks of the opinion that every order given by a superior is legitimate ? ;)

absolutly not, we have a right to refuse an order if we feel its illegal, but if during the investigation the conclusion is that the order was leagal then you will be charged for failing to fallow a leagal order



my comment was adressed more towards the civilians thingi there:)

[Sharp]

ahh those french, always looking for ways to reinforce the left flank
i'm currently looking a way to reinforce the rear flank.. of your avatar

[fantassin]

I was waiting for some ill informed journo to produce something like that...

The principle that you refuse an illegal order is nothing new, it's been written in the TTA101, the "Règlement de discipline générale" for decades.

What has been changed is that soldiers are urged to report in a more open manner deeds they feel are illegal, even if it means reporting directly to the head of the armed forces (CEMA) or their respective chiefs of staff.

It means if your platoon sgt has just shot a POW in the back of the neck and you have a problem with that, you can now pick up your phone and call directly the chief of the joint staff and moan about it rather than first report to your normal chain of command....

Woopy ****ing do....

[ed316]

We are taught also in the Marines to disobey an illegal order. But beware some soldiers might see something illegal and their superiors won't. If you have a proffessional and well train army this law is not needed.

[AROUETLJ]

The Marines are professional and well-trained, so why do they need this law?

[ed316]

The Marines are professional and well-trained, so why do they need this law?

we don't have this law. We were just told about not obeying an order that we feel that might be illegal and goes against are training.

[fantassin]

Of course, just look at recent events (Abu Graib springs immediatly to mind) to see such a law is pointless in an all brave and all superiorly trained army...

[Atlantic Friend]

Fantassin, 1) I don't think Abu Ghraib was run by Marines and 2) every army, however disciplined and professionnal it is, has its black sheep.

[ed316]

Of course, just look at recent events (Abu Graib springs immediatly to mind) to see such a law is pointless in an all brave and all superiorly trained army...

quit being a kid and tell me why would they need this law. The French army is profesional enough. I wasn't trying to say we were supirior to you guys, that's you. Don't makes this out to be US vs France thing.

[fantassin]

They need this law to show the tree hugging lesbians that soldiers aren't savages and repressed by a hierarchy which turns a blind eye to potential crimes.

[ed316]

They need this law to show the tree hugging lesbians that soldiers aren't savages and repressed by a hierarchy which turns a blind eye to potential crimes.

Don't the French army have a code of conduct?

[woofer]

sorry but your average grunt who is 18 years old and full of piss and wind is not realy in a position to refuse orders....I think this is just a way for senior officers and polititians to get away with things. The buck can stop down low rather the go to the top..."if you thought it was illegal then you should have refused" blah blah...its a bit like the health and safety rules where everyone has a responsibility to make sure there are no dangers

[fantassin]

The principle that you refuse an illegal order is nothing new, it's been written in the TTA101, the "Règlement de discipline générale" for decades.

TTA101, the "Règlement de discipline générale"