WW2 Luftwaffe Projects

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

http://www.luft46.com/

An interesting site. Full of information about all the ultra sexy "Future" planes the Germans were designing.

[Abakan94]

Thanks mister Squirrel Nuts

[Abakan94]

this thing looks amazing

http://www.luft46.com/roart/rotrb-4.jpg

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mrvto-4.jpg

[Abakan94]

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mrvto-4.jpg

What the spoiled banana guts is that?

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

http://www.luft46.com/fw/fwvtol.html

[Abakan94]

HAHAHA look at this Midget Ship

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr183-6.jpg

[Violet Fashion by Mindy]

Man whatever the German designers were smoking. I wont some.

[ElHombre]

Man whatever the German designers were smoking. I wont some.

they just had a large case of 'victory disease' mixed with a case of insane leader. ;-)

i wouldn't mind having a Ho229, though.

http://www.luft46.com/gotha/gop60a.html

scroll down a bit to find it.

[muede]

HAHAHA look at this Midget Ship

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr183-6.jpg
Whats funny about it? Ill tell you if theres anything funny about it its the fact that: Sabre and MiG-15 are copies of this concept (Saab J-29 Tunan being very close too among others) and Kurt Tank actually finnished modified version to Argentine airforce, too bad in 50's ww2 designs even if futuristic in 45 were becoming obsolete with speed so in the end just few were build.

Regards.

[Abakan94]

Whats funny about it? Ill tell you if theres anything funny about it its the fact that: Sabre and MiG-15 are copies of this concept and Kurt Tank actually finnished modified version to Argentine airforce, too bad in 50's ww2 designs even if futuristic in 45 were becoming obsolete with speed so in the end just few were build.

Regards.

whats funny about it? What i said, it looks like a midget ship.

[Chulo]

man.. now sweet is this one!?
http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1298/jg17937sh.jpg (http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://www.imageshack.us/transload.php)
if those nazi got to carry on their projects i wonder where we would be now (in tec sense , not social cause i know most of us would be dead)

[muede]

They carried on their projects in Argentine, Spain, India, Egypt, Germany (both of them), USA and USSR after the war to name a few, and started many others, not much would have been changed IMHO.

[JVeld]

Great.........does this remind anyone of an MIG-15 ?

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr183-6.jpg

[ronin2172]

Great.........does this remind anyone of an MIG-15 ?

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr183-6.jpg
yea cause it was used as the basis for the Mig 15

[muede]

Other than bit stubbier fuselage the layout is identical.

Sabre and MiG-15 are copies of this concept
Read up. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Ta_183)

Regards.


After the end of the war, Multhopp moved to the United States, where he gave valuable insight into swept wing design. As a direct result of this information, the F-86 Sabre and later versions of the F-84 both incorporated swept wings.

The Soviets found a set of Ta 183 plans after the war in the former Luftwaffe headquarters in Berlin. In March of 1946, Soviet leadership requested a new swept wing jet fighter from the major aircraft design houses. The Mikoyan OKB used data from Ta 183 development to contribute to one of their own projects, designated I-310. Unlike the Ta 183, the MiG design was an all-metal airplane designed around a larger British Rolls-Royce Nene centrifugal flow turbojet. The first I-310 took to the air in July, 1947 and competed against the similar Lavochkin La-168. After some design changes, the project resulted in the famous MiG-15.

Kurt Tank, while in exile in Argentina, also continued the Ta 183 project, resulting in the IAe Pulqui II. This version was modified to place the wings at a shoulder-mounted position, for reasons which are unclear, which resulted in deep stall problems at high angles of attack. This seemed solvable, however, and a newer version correcting these problems was planned. However the financial crash of 1953 and the fall of Juan Peron ended the project, at first temporarily, and by 1955, permanently.

[Amandil]

Sadly I can't find a Messerschmitt 209 on that site anywhere. If I recall correctly, the 209 was the prop design slated to replace the 109F -- but due to budgetary issues, they decided it wasn't worth it to retool all the factories. So all they did was build the 109G, that gawdawful looking Bf-109 on 'roids. I still wanna know what the 209 would have looked like!

[ElHombre]

my google-fu is strong today.

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/AC/aircraft/Messerschmitt-Me209/info/info.htm

it was a racing plane that herr m tried to turn into a warplane. it didn't work.

[toki]

These 2 were ahead of their time, too!
http://www.luft46.com/misc/3bw1003.gif
http://www.luft46.com/horten/3bho18a.jpg

[Abakan94]

These 2 were ahead of their time, too!
http://www.luft46.com/misc/3bw1003.gif
http://www.luft46.com/horten/3bho18a.jpg

wow. those are way modern

[goldman]

Outstanding Minardiau!!!woot

[artistoli]

Thanks so much for letting us know of the site! Its fascinating! I will be lost on it for hours. Makes me feel very glad that the war ended when it did.

[He219]

Great.........does this remind anyone of an MIG-15 ?

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr183-6.jpg
The Swedes kept most closely to this design with the SAAB J29
http://www.edu.linkoping.se/pedagogisktcentrum/Far&Flyg/Sajter2000/kvinneby6a/Bilder/tunnan.gif
http://www.canit.se/~griffon/aviation/img/malmen76/j29.jpg


Sabre and MiG-15 are copies of this concept
More than a concept. Take the Messerschmitt P.1101:
http://tanks45.tripod.com/Jets45/Histories/Me-P1101/P1100.jpg
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/afwing/combat/loo/images/mep1101.JPG
It eventually evolved into a variable sweep testbed after Bell took over development:
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/images/content/86174main_FS-081-DFRC_popup4.jpg
http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-468/p259.jpg

[Cabbage]

I think Da Vinci also designed a helicopter in the 16th century. Only problem is he was missing a turbine to make the thing fly. Oh, and the rotors were made of paper. Ahead of his time....:)

[Atlantic Friend]

Great.........does this remind anyone of an MIG-15 ?

http://www.luft46.com/mrart/mr183-6.jpg

Either a shortish MiG-15 or the USAF's 'Goblin' fighter that was supposed to be carried under the wings of a large bo;ber to be used as close escort.

[strumbird]

Sadly I can't find a Messerschmitt 209 on that site anywhere. If I recall correctly, the 209 was the prop design slated to replace the 109F -- but due to budgetary issues, they decided it wasn't worth it to retool all the factories. So all they did was build the 109G, that gawdawful looking Bf-109 on 'roids. I still wanna know what the 209 would have looked like!

I think you meant Me-209 II V5.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_209-II
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Me-209II.jpg

I think Me-309 supposed to replaced the aging Bf-109.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_309
http://www.luft46.com/mess/309-5.jpg

[Crassus]

Ta-152 was the best choice before Me-262. Luftwaffe staff was well aware that they needed an aircraft with propel before turning to jet engines. Me-309 and Ta-152 were at the same competition. No question which one was the winner.

btw, in the original design of Jumo jet engine used over 70 kilo nickel and the version that went to prodution, less than 20kg! No wonder that engine life was less than 50 flying hours,

[He219]

One of my favorite designs, the Go229/Horten Waggonfabrik-HoIX:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/3eb35e73.jpg
larger (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/3eb35e73.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/70454942.jpg
larger (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/70454942.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/339f72f9.jpg
larger (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/339f72f9.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/f36c0711.jpg
larger (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/f36c0711.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/b2c4c477.jpg
larger (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/b2c4c477.jpg)

Here it is today, the view ironically, the same as the first pic on this page! Inadvertantly, the forerunner of all this "Stealth" technology everyone is raving about.....Rotting in some shed in the Smithsonian!...(supposedly being restored)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/98197bd9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/42837614.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/f64cd9a1.jpg
First Flight.

[B25Hmitchell]

Didn't the Argentine Air Force have some Ta-183 Huckebein Hunchback looking planes when Galland was with them after the war (the big one) ?

[predator02]

LOOK AT THAT HOT THANG...http://www.luft46.com/duart/du1110.jpg

[B25Hmitchell]

Some pics I took a few years ago at the Garber storage facility in D.C.

[B25Hmitchell]

Here it is...

Dr Kurt Tank did how ever continue with the Ta 183 in Argentina from 1947, the aircraft was the "Pulqui II" it's first flight being on the 27/6/1950. Only six aircraft were made, but the program was canceled in 1954, when Dr Tank left to work for the Indian government

[B25Hmitchell]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/f36c0711.jpg




BTW, that B-17 you see on the left is one of the earlier models with the smaller vertical stabilizer. It was one of the few that escaped from Philippines after the Japanese invaded (so the tour guide says)

[miguelencanarias]

one cannot help but to think that hadn't they invaded Russia, they might have been able to build many of those things. Not that we would be speaking German right now, but maybe they would have survived as a nation.

Thanks god it didn't happen.

[He219]

http://www.machtres.com/Ia33_chico.JPG

Here it is...

Dr Kurt Tank did how ever continue with the Ta 183 in Argentina from 1947, the aircraft was the "Pulqui II" it's first flight being on the 27/6/1950. Only six aircraft were made, but the program was canceled in 1954, when Dr Tank left to work for the Indian government
... To join legendary deltamaster Lippisch in India!
;)


http://www.gairspace.org.uk/images/cumb/ME163.gif
another Lippisch design ..

[sir-chimp]

One of my favorite designs, the Go229/Horten Waggonfabrik-HoIX:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/3eb35e73.jpg
larger (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/3eb35e73.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/70454942.jpg
larger (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/70454942.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/339f72f9.jpg
larger (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/339f72f9.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/f36c0711.jpg
larger (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/f36c0711.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/b2c4c477.jpg
larger (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/b2c4c477.jpg)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/98197bd9.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/42837614.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/f64cd9a1.jpg
First Flight.






Here it is today, the view ironically, the same as the first pic on this page! Inadvertantly, the forerunner of all this "Stealth" technology everyone is raving about.....Rotting in some shed in the Smithsonian!...(supposedly being restored)

My understanding was what ever stealth tendencies it had where a unintended consequence of the design?

[B25Hmitchell]

From what the guy there said, everyone works there for free in their spare time. All the planes are numbered for restoration for the newest musuem near the airport (where the Enola Ghey is). . One group was working on their He-219 when I was there.

[He219]

^
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~VD4H-OOTK/usa2/He219_L.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/ca025af0.jpg


My understanding was what ever stealth tendencies it had where a unintended consequence of the design?
Indeed. Low radar cross section with the flying wing desing coupled with plywood/tube steel composite construction because materials were scarce (thus Gothaer wagon-factory in Oberammagau built it).


In my mind, the best of WWII:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/f433b736.jpg
larger (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/f433b736.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/77b00b8b.jpg
larger (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/77b00b8b.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/0b4a07e0.jpg
larger (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/0b4a07e0.jpg)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/506e6ce0.gif
larger (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/506e6ce0.gif)

[Whitcomb]

I was very impressed with the Dulles facility for the Air and Space over the summer, i could have stayed there for hours......

this one was isolated all by itself though................poor airplane
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/ca025af0.jpg

[B25Hmitchell]

I was very impressed with the Dulles facility for the Air and Space over the summer, i could have stayed there for hours......

this one was isolated all by itself though................poor airplane
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/ca025af0.jpg

Wow, what a difference from 2002...

I really must take a trip there soon. Have you been there He-219 ?

[He219]

Still, this Owl needs it's wings back!
:-(

http://www.sassalyn.com/obiwan/he5.jpg

Walkaround (http://aircraftwalkaround.hobbyvista.com/he219/he219.htm) the restoration pix ..

[unit299_09]

thats a german speciality...

...visionary thinking..

Heinkel and Arado where both based in my hometown..
the first jet ever was created, build and has his first flight here..
http://www.aviationtrivia.homestead.com/files/He_178_2.jpg

http://www.aviationtrivia.homestead.com/He_178.html

http://www.deutsches-museum-bonn.de/ausstellungen/meisterwerke/turbostrahl/movie.html

the half of the older city was build for the workers of the Heinkel-factory and we have still bunkers and parts of the factory here..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/unit299_09/Rostock%20morbid%20impressions/Bunker-II.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/unit299_09/Rostock%20morbid%20impressions/Bunker-I.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/unit299_09/Rostock%20morbid%20impressions/hall.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/unit299_09/morbid%20impressions%20II/bunker-III.jpg

[ranger75bn]

a very nice find woot woot


tnx a lot

[Chulo]

compair that
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1650&d=1138908655
and
this!
http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/3387/wingcommander0bf.jpg (http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://www.imageshack.us/transload.php)
omg! nazi went to the future and stole the plans from wing commander!

[percell_086]

Yep, you have just re-written history!
Nice find, Germans could do some crazy stuff.


Percell

[Amandil]

my google-fu is strong today.

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/AC/aircraft/Messerschmitt-Me209/info/info.htm

it was a racing plane that herr m tried to turn into a warplane. it didn't work.Your google-fu is much appreciated. Thanks!

Edit: turns out the one I was looking for was the Me-209-II. Confusing business, this....

[He219]

The Bachem 349 'Natter' - Just nutty~!

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Bilder/Ba349/Ba349-6.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d2/BachemBa349.jpghttp://www.kheichhorn.de/assets/images/Test_Ba_349.jpg
http://www.rb-29.net/HTML/04.PAAvtnArt/PAShowScans/LateAdditions5/Natters.gif
http://www.aviation-history.com/garber/images/bachem_349-1.jpg
http://www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft%20performance/aircraft%20manufacturers/images/natter.jpg
Bachem BA-349 Natter - 1999 Planes of Fame Museum, Chino, CA

[ElHombre]

Thanks so much for letting us know of the site! Its fascinating! I will be lost on it for hours. Makes me feel very glad that the war ended when it did.

these planes were one of the reason the war ended when it did. the nazis spent so much time and resources on all developing these highly-advanced weapons that they didn't concentrate their efforts on more practical items.

by comparison, look at how short a time it took the US to develop the p-51 mustang (admittedly at a british request :lol:).

BTW, thanks for all the pics, especially about the Go229. it's good to hear that they're working on restoring it.

[nick_ua]

great pics.
thanks a lot

[BusterHyman]

Wow, what a difference from 2002...

I really must take a trip there soon. Have you been there He-219 ?

Does that HE-219 have its wings on yet at the Dulles NASM? When I was there they had it sitting next to the Dornier 335. Its wings were sitting in a cradle next to it, but the Uhu didn't have any wings where I could see.

[ronin2172]

these planes were one of the reason the war ended when it did. the nazis spent so much time and resources on all developing these highly-advanced weapons that they didn't concentrate their efforts on more practical items.



That is a bit of a myth. People have said that same arguement when talking about german panzer designs and even some of the german infantry weapons.

All one has to do is look at the german production statistics to see that that reasoning is false. Production of German conventional weapons never suffered due to time and resources wasted on advanced projects. If anything the germans were on the right path with trying to get some of these designs to work, at the latter stages of the war they could never produce enough conventional weapons to compete with the allies, so they needed any and every edge they could get.

The one thing you can say they did fail was in the production of a decent long range bomber

[big_les]

compair that
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1650&d=1138908655
and
this!
http://img436.imageshack.us/img436/3387/wingcommander0bf.jpg (http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://www.imageshack.us/transload.php)
omg! nazi went to the future and stole the plans from wing commander!

About 20 years out; those ships were actually 1960s English Electric Lightning interceptor cockpits with bits stuck on.

[Cabbage]

these planes were one of the reason the war ended when it did. the nazis spent so much time and resources on all developing these highly-advanced weapons that they didn't concentrate their efforts on more practical items.

by comparison, look at how short a time it took the US to develop the p-51 mustang (admittedly at a british request :lol:).

BTW, thanks for all the pics, especially about the Go229. it's good to hear that they're working on restoring it.

Yes, but the P-51 really came to the fore once the British Merlin engine was stuck inside it. And you also have to remember that the US plane-making factories weren't getting bombed every night like the British were.

The P-51 was good doing it's role as longe-range escort.

[muede]

Awsome, keep this going.

Kurt Tank when in India designed the HF-24 Marut quite high performance fighter-bomber that was used by IAF for more than 20 years.

[Kalasj]

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/books/germany_secret_weapons_wwii/ju_287_02.jpg

where do i know this aircraft from? p-)

http://de.geocities.com/glupscherle/su37berkhut.jpg