Warcrimes in Iraq?

[Kitsune]

Two Videos of alleged warcrimes committed by American troops in Iraq.
BE WARNED, this is mature content!!! Both videos show the killing of people !!!

Incident 1:
http://cop-players.com/cop-media/apache.mpeg

http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/US/apache_video_040109.html


Incident2:
http://homepage.mac.com/webmasterkai/kaicurry/gwbush/iraqiwar.wmv

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm


I don't know wether these have already been discussed here. If so, this thread should be closed.

I also do not intend to imply anything: I just present these videos because they have been shown in Europe (but they are from American sources) and will be discussed over here. I also cannot say wether these videos are the truth or wether they represent a faked or distorted version of reality. No further comment.

[Ratamacue]

Both of these videos have been discussed to death.

[Tengu]

Seen it before. We only see a small part of the the operation so you really can't say if it's by the book or not.

[Kitsune]

Damn :oops:

where????

[hank]

well, Kitsune could not find any video of Dresden in 1945 so he had to improvise.

hank

[JMooch]

Considering that both have edited out all of the important before and after sequences, I'd say ignore it because you don't know the circumstances of the actions in question.

With that said...STFU!

We're tired of hearing about how "evil" we are!

Semper,
Mooch

[Kitsune]

Tengu wrote:

Seen it before. We only see a small part of the the operation so you really can't say if it's by the book or not.


Well, if this aren't complete fakes it certainly is not "by the book". But they could very well be divorced from context, true.

@JMooch: Even if these two incidents should represent warcrimes, if You are not one of these soldiers I am not accusing you. Possibly you are a nice guy. (Judging from your post that seems quite improbable, though... p-) )

[George W. Bush]

Good shooting! ;)

[usa320]

Its been done to death.

First off, the videos were spliced outta sequence. Second off in the one video the iraqi guy starts rolling and reaching for his weapon. Id shoot him a second time as well.

[hank]

Well as far as I am concerned, we could have saved a lot of trouble by just incendiary-bombing the whole f--king country, Iraq that is. I mean, it did wonders in Dresden, right?

hank

[George W. Bush]

Do gunners receive the same training as pilot of say AH-64? It seems like they would get a lot less training because all they really do is blow **** up.

[RomanS]

Well as far as I am concerned, we could have saved a lot of trouble by just incendiary-bombing the whole f--king country, Iraq that is. I mean, it did wonders in Dresden, right?

hank

baby killers

agressors

invaders

murderers

US already killed around 300,000 iraqi civilians, why need to kill more?

sarcasm off

[Kilgor]

Seriously dude... watch the whole footage and you will clearly see a RPG was pulled out the back of a truck then hidden in the bushes. These guys were CLEARLY enemies, and deserved to be smoked.

Use your common sense, would the US military release a video of war crimes being commited ??

FFS.. wake up :bash: :bash:

[hank]

dude, cause there are still some left. Kill every f--king one. You russian a--hole. My friends and brotehrs died in Iraq and they are all murderers and terrorists! Next I will come and kill you you silly jerkoff!

That BS above is really similar to the crap that you do everytime someone says that russians have killed chechyns, isn't it?

See how stupid and annoying that is? Instead of threatening to kill Kitsune b/c he dares to question American action in Iraq - I turned his own joke back on him. Then some other people might actually get a laugh, and I don't bore the whole forum with another round of BS.

Try it instead of th usual mindless propoganda you spout there Premie. Everybody knows that Kitsune is predisposed to believe that American eat Iraqi children for 3 meals a day, so just make fun of him or ignore it.

hank

[RomanS]

Seriously dude... watch the whole footage and you will clearly see a RPG was pulled out the back of a truck then hidden in the bushes. These guys were CLEARLY enemies, and deserved to be smoked.

Use your common sense, would the US military release a video of war crimes being commited ??

FFS.. wake up :bash: :bash:

In Europe they tell them it was a telescope for looking at the beautiful stars of Bagdad

[George W. Bush]

Who the **** cares whether some asshole Islamonazi was blown to bits. There are hundreds of them left to kill until Iraq is stable again.

I'm sure U.S. Military has done much worse in Iraq and Afghanistan

[Ichhabe]

dude, cause there are still some left. Kill every f--king one. You russian a--hole. My friends and brotehrs died in Iraq and they are all murderers and terrorists! Next I will come and kill you you silly jerkoff!

That BS above is really similar to the crap that you do everytime someone says that russians have killed chechyns, isn't it?

See how stupid and annoying that is? Instead of threatening to kill Kitsune b/c he dares to question American action in Iraq - I turned his own joke back on him. Then some other people might actually get a laugh, and I don't bore the whole forum with another round of BS.

Try it instead of th usual mindless propoganda you spout there Premie. Everybody knows that Kitsune is predisposed to believe that American eat Iraqi children for 3 meals a day, so just make fun of him or ignore it.

hank

hank hank hank, tsk tsk tsk...

Did you not see that he had the sarcasm light and sirene turned on.
He was using ironi. Check dictonary on the meaning of the word before you jump in the fox hole and blasting everything you got in his direction.

(Suggestion; from nowone lets use the colour Cyan when we want to use sarcasm...)

Btw hank, you seem to be a calm and nice guy.. ;)

[hank]

Actually I am calm, but its a personal thing between Premie and me. I don't do colors. I ain't mad at Premie but we just like to tool on each other about this particular issue. Its like a game, really. I don't do colors, sorry. :D

hank

[RomanS]

dude, cause there are still some left. Kill every f--king one. You russian a--hole. My friends and brotehrs died in Iraq and they are all murderers and terrorists! Next I will come and kill you you silly jerkoff!

That BS above is really similar to the crap that you do everytime someone says that russians have killed chechyns, isn't it?

See how stupid and annoying that is? Instead of threatening to kill Kitsune b/c he dares to question American action in Iraq - I turned his own joke back on him. Then some other people might actually get a laugh, and I don't bore the whole forum with another round of BS.

Try it instead of th usual mindless propoganda you spout there Premie. Everybody knows that Kitsune is predisposed to believe that American eat Iraqi children for 3 meals a day, so just make fun of him or ignore it.

hank

awesome,

now this is exactly how we Russians feel when we hear that we killed 500,000 Chechen civilians.

After that we are called terrorists, agressors, invaders, babykillers. In fact by US government as well.

But you know what hank, we ignore it.

Funny how after 9-11, Chechens were declared as terrorists. Check the hijackers history. half of them passed the training camps and fought against Russian terrorists in Chechnya.

If you do have some "give a fuk" left in you, R E S E A R C H the HISTORY

and also check this out. I am pro US, pro Iraq War, and what i said about above as just so you can feel what I feel. Maybe you will start givin a ****.

Everyone knows, accept YOU that what I said above was to give you an example of our pain. And I will back US anytime of the day.

The reason you should give a **** about Chechens, and support Russians is - Chechens celebrated the 9-11 tragedy, US is next on their list, they hate USA as well.

So stop your bull****!
I'[m on your ****in side, and I'm glad maybe you understand how we feel...

[Kilgor]

In Europe they tell them it was a telescope for looking at the beautiful stars of Bagdad

rofl

They also tell them in Europe..

it was clearly a package of food aid in a circular tube that the guys were going to deliver to saddam's many kind ophenages in the middle of the night.

[hank]

I don't care what side you are on dip****. It is the constant threats and BS that you spout when someone questions russia/chechnya that I can't stand. What is so hard about this for you to understand?

Your views are irrelevant to me. I've never once even mentioned my thoughts on chechnya or terrorists, but anytime anybody disagrees with you you threaten them and go berserk. That's all I'm saying.

If Kitsune had posted this about chechnya instead of Iraq you would have gone into some silly diatribe similar to the one I posted above as a joke.

hank

[RomanS]

In Europe they tell them it was a telescope for looking at the beautiful stars of Bagdad

rofl

They also tell them in Europe..

it was clearly a package of food aid in a circular tube that the guys were going to deliver to saddam's many kind ophenages in the middle of the night.

All those tree huging peace activists must DIE or join us fighting against the scum in Iraq, Afganistan, Pakistan, Tadjikistan, Chechnya, all them stans.

See the thing is, those assholes who say USA or Russia kills crap load of civilians obiviosly didn't lose their family or friends to terrorism.

Sometimes I wish they did, so they can taste it. Most of the time explaining that we there to preserve freedom -DOESN'T ****IN WORK!

[hank]

All those tree huging peace activists must DIE or join us fighting against the scum in Iraq, Afganistan, Pakistan, Tadjikistan, Chechnya, all them stans.

See the thing is, those assholes who say USA or Russia kills crap load of civilians obiviosly didn't lose their family or friends to terrorism.

Sometimes I wish they did, so they can taste it. Most of the time explaining that we there to preserve freedom -DOESN'T f*** WORK!

case in point - hell I can't even type fast enough to keep up. All must die - is that all you got? dude I'm through with you. I hate to think that we might actually agree about some things.

hank

[RomanS]

I don't care what side you are on dip****. It is the constant threats and BS that you spout when someone questions russia/chechnya that I can't stand. What is so hard about this for you to understand?

Your views are irrelevant to me. I've never once even mentioned my thoughts on chechnya or terrorists, but anytime anybody disagrees with you you threaten them and go berserk. That's all I'm saying.

If Kitsune had posted this about chechnya instead of Iraq you would have gone into some silly diatribe similar to the one I posted above as a joke.

hank

Go get laid dude! you must relax

You lost friends and brothers?

Sorry to hear it, I lost part of my family in the war, 9 close friends, and a good buddy in the subway bombing.

And you want me to stay quiet, and let those Euro fuks piss on my dead brothers?

[RomanS]

All those tree huging peace activists must DIE or join us fighting against the scum in Iraq, Afganistan, Pakistan, Tadjikistan, Chechnya, all them stans.

See the thing is, those assholes who say USA or Russia kills crap load of civilians obiviosly didn't lose their family or friends to terrorism.

Sometimes I wish they did, so they can taste it. Most of the time explaining that we there to preserve freedom -DOESN'T f*** WORK!

case in point - hell I can't even type fast enough to keep up. All must die - is that all you got? dude I'm through with you. I hate to think that we might actually agree about some things.

hank

Answer my question with all you got. Be honest

I lost friends to that war.
Should I sit, and take it up my ass when those ****s critisize Russian soldiers?

Simple YES or NO, and I'm through with you too.

[Kilgor]

See the thing is, those assholes who say USA or Russia kills crap load of civilians obiviosly didn't lose their family or friends to terrorism.

Sometimes I wish they did, so they can taste it. Most of the time explaining that we there to preserve freedom -DOESN'T f*** WORK!

Dont worry dude.. some of us do realise and have just as much sympathy for the russia terrorist problem.

Although its not covered in the media as much, you guys have just as much to worry about.

[Javehn]

I have to say some things i didn't liked in those movies .

In first movie , the co pilot f*cked up a bit with a range , and first birst going to some strange place .Proffesional ??? Now , common . If you want to blow someone up , so it would be really cool , use the damn rocket , gun is for pussies .

And second movie , the wounded guy was about 30 metters from the marine guys ? And yet , it took somewhere up to 4 rounds to waste the guy . Even with iron sightes , that's poor skills . Common , guys , what is that supposed to be ??

[RomanS]

See the thing is, those assholes who say USA or Russia kills crap load of civilians obiviosly didn't lose their family or friends to terrorism.

Sometimes I wish they did, so they can taste it. Most of the time explaining that we there to preserve freedom -DOESN'T f*** WORK!

Dont worry dude.. some of us do realise and have just as much sympathy for the russia terrorist problem.

Although its not covered in the media as much, you guys have just as much to worry about.

thanks for support, but try to explain this to the guy above my post

[George W. Bush]

I have to say some things i didn't liked in those movies .

In first movie , the co pilot f*cked up a bit with a range , and first birst going to some strange place .Proffesional ??? Now , common . If you want to blow someone up , so it would be really cool , use the damn rocket , gun is for pussies .

And second movie , the wounded guy was about 30 metters from the marine guys ? And yet , it took somewhere up to 4 rounds to waste the guy . Even with iron sightes , that's poor skills . Common , guys , what is that supposed to be ??

Every Marine is a rifleman first.

I admit he's no Annie Oakley but he got the job done. No more terrorist.

[Tengu]

See the thing is, those assholes who say USA or Russia kills crap load of civilians obiviosly didn't lose their family or friends to terrorism. We will, its just a matter of time. We did prevent a few attacks like an attack on a militairy base.

[TALOS]

See the thing is, those assholes who say USA or Russia kills crap load of civilians obiviosly didn't lose their family or friends to terrorism. We will, its just a matter of time. We did prevent a few attacks like an attack on a militairy base.

Unfortunately I think you might be right, and it worries me that there will be more to come.
In Canada we feel superior and safe because we dont think the terro's will get us (after all we let them hide here) but I think we are being naive, the terro dont care who you are, if you arent them you are a target.

[Seoulstriker]

what the terrorists are doing in chechnya is absolutely horrible. i think what people fail to realize is that this is no longer a 'revolutionary war' as some would say, but a war of terrorist insurgents. muslims from around the world go to chechnya to kill russians. what does that have to do with a free chechnya???

the russians have done bad things to chechens, but that simply does not change the reality of the situation there: muslims are on a holy war against russia. :(

[Macs.]

Yes, war crimes happen. Every soldier is a individual person, and you cannot avoid war crimes. (even american soldiers do errors)
But there is a BIG difference between the war in iraq, and the war in chechenya.
In iraq you have some individual cases of war crimes, in chechenya war crimes happen almost every day. (You don't hear much about them in western media, because 1. no one is interested in the war in chechenya 2. russia is trying to ban all media from chechenya.

Here are some articles for you:

Russians Accused of Abuses in Chechnya
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A16246-2002Jan21&notFound=true

Russia invented ambush by Chechens to hide friendly-fire massacre
http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=114519

http://www.humanrights.de/doc_en/archiv/voice_congress_2001/chechenya.html

WAR HAS NO RULES FOR RUSSIAN FORCES BATTLING CHECHEN REBELS
Troops admit committing atrocities against guerrillas and civilians.
It's part of the military culture of impunity, they say.
But many now have troubled consciences.

By MAURA REYNOLDS
Times Staff Writer
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/icons/russ-atrocities.html

"Without bespredel, we'll get nowhere in Chechnya," a 21-year-old conscript explained. "We have to be cruel to them. Otherwise, we'll achieve nothing."

"I remember a Chechen female sniper. We just tore her apart with two armored personnel carriers, having tied her ankles with steel cables. There was a lot of blood, but the boys needed it."
"The main thing is to have them die slowly. You don't want them to die fast, because a fast death is an easy death."

"The summary executions don't just take place against suspected fighters. One 33-year-old army officer recounted how he drowned a family of five--four women and a middle-aged man--in their own well."

"You should not believe people who say Chechens are not being exterminated. In this Chechen war, it's done by everyone who can do it," he said. "There are situations when it's not possible. But when an opportunity presents itself, few people miss it."

"I would kill all the men I met during mopping-up operations. I didn't feel sorry for them one bit."

"It's much easier to kill them all. It takes less time for them to die than to grow."

"So there will be one Chechen less on the planet, so what? Who will cry for him?"

Want more ? You can find 1000th of articles, pictures and videos in the internet which show or describe russian war crimes.
Russian is trying to get chechnya under control for years, and every day innocent die.

In iraq it was a matter of weeks ! Chechenya is a ****hole, and russia is not gonna win.

[Kilgor]

the russians have done bad things to chechens, but that simply does not change the reality of the situation there: muslims are on a holy war against russia. :(

Who arnt they in a holy war against ? :roll:

They will kill anyone, including their own people.

Israel, UK, US, Australia, Russia, and now once favourites.. France.

[scm77]

I find it funny, how the informationclearinghouse page says "News you won't find on CNN". But they got the video from CNN.

I am dissapointed at those marines. It took three shots to hit him tsk tsk.
Anyways who cares. Did you really expect them to run 30 yards towards other iraqis just to treat one? :bash:

[RomanS]

Yes, war crimes happen. Every soldier is a individual person, and you cannot avoid war crimes. (even american soldiers do errors)
But there is a BIG difference between the war in iraq, and the war in chechenya.
In iraq you have some individual cases of war crimes, in chechenya war crimes happen almost every day. (You don't hear much about them in western media, because 1. no one is interested in the war in chechenya 2. russia is trying to ban all media from chechenya.

Here are some articles for you:

Russians Accused of Abuses in Chechnya
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A16246-2002Jan21¬Found=true

Russia invented ambush by Chechens to hide friendly-fire massacre
http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=114519

http://www.humanrights.de/doc_en/archiv/voice_congress_2001/chechenya.html

WAR HAS NO RULES FOR RUSSIAN FORCES BATTLING CHECHEN REBELS
Troops admit committing atrocities against guerrillas and civilians.
It's part of the military culture of impunity, they say.
But many now have troubled consciences.

By MAURA REYNOLDS
Times Staff Writer
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/icons/russ-atrocities.html

"Without bespredel, we'll get nowhere in Chechnya," a 21-year-old conscript explained. "We have to be cruel to them. Otherwise, we'll achieve nothing."

"I remember a Chechen female sniper. We just tore her apart with two armored personnel carriers, having tied her ankles with steel cables. There was a lot of blood, but the boys needed it."
"The main thing is to have them die slowly. You don't want them to die fast, because a fast death is an easy death."

"The summary executions don't just take place against suspected fighters. One 33-year-old army officer recounted how he drowned a family of five--four women and a middle-aged man--in their own well."

"You should not believe people who say Chechens are not being exterminated. In this Chechen war, it's done by everyone who can do it," he said. "There are situations when it's not possible. But when an opportunity presents itself, few people miss it."

"I would kill all the men I met during mopping-up operations. I didn't feel sorry for them one bit."

"It's much easier to kill them all. It takes less time for them to die than to grow."

"So there will be one Chechen less on the planet, so what? Who will cry for him?"

Want more ? You can find 1000th of articles, pictures and videos in the internet which show or describe russian war crimes.
Russian is trying to get chechnya under control for years, and every day innocent die.

In iraq it was a matter of weeks ! Chechenya is a ****hole, and russia is not gonna win.

Hey look sounds like that video from Iraq that was edited by 7,000 liberals and peace monkeys.

Remember that Marine that shot the "poor innocent iraqi soldier on the ground", and later gave an interview saying - Yeah it felt good, I wanna do it again.

And now -
**** OFF (Bullet Tooth Tony -Snatch)