Secret Service vs. White House intruder

[guitarwolf]

Yesterday, a nut tried to jump the fence at the White House
and was met by several armed men in black.

http://www.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/images/20040225/whitehouse_intruder_20040225/160_white_house_lawn_man_20040225.jpg

I'm trying to find a pic I saw on the front page of a chinese newspaper: The intruder is face down being handcuffed while
2 SS agents have him covered. One of the SS has a weapon I
can't identify. Has anyone seen this pic? Got a link and an I.D. on
the gun?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040225/us_nm/bush_security_dc_2

[guitarwolf]

Oops! Found it. Wasn't that hard. Still can't I.D. the gun.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040225/capt.gh10602252327.white_house_fence_jumper_gh106.jpg
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040225/capt.gh10302252305.white_house_fence_jumper_gh103.jpg

[-Max2-]

One of the SS has a weapon I can't identify.

Its a FN P90. USSS use P90s and Five-Sevens since 2003...

[venture160]

wow awesome pictures, i didn't know any us branches of government used a FN P90

[AVZ]

How long did it take to put him down??????

5, 10, 15m?????

I always asked me that standing in front of the fence. But didn't want to try it. p-)

Did the boys came out of an underground shelter???


Good Job!!!!

[obd]

haha AVZ man, what you should really be asking yourself when considering a "fence jump" on the whitehouse is this:

Did the sniper hidden somewhere out of site get laid last night or is he in a really bad mood from poonanie withdrawl?

Or this: Should I run with my hands already up in the air or with them in my pockets?

Or this: I wonder how long it would take me to loose awareness if I took a .338 Lapua through the heart from 100 yards?

Or this: Ounce I got over the high from jumping the fence, how long would I have to spend in jail and how bad would is F up the rest of my life?

[guitarwolf]

Probably within 5min. They have sensors on the gate and underground.

I thought the FN P90 was created for tank and helicopter crews.
I didn't know it was a good CQB weapon, but I'm not expert.

"he 50 round magazine runs horizontally across the top of the P90, keeping it compact and empty casings are ejected downward, where they cannot interfere with the user. The P90 fires from a closed bolt, giving it outstanding accuracy and making it easy to keep on target. The Five-seveN tactical pistol, also chambered for 5.7 x 28mm, is an excellent companion to the P90. The FN P90 sub-machine gun is the ideal personal defense weapon for armored vehicles or helicopter crews. Perfectly fitted for law enforcement tactical teams."

http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/tw_p90.htm

[ibstolidude]

Oops! Found it. Wasn't that hard. Still can't I.D. the gun.

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040225/capt.gh10602252327.white_house_fence_jumper_gh106.jpg
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040225/capt.gh10302252305.white_house_fence_jumper_gh103.jpg
what in the world was that guy thinking?

I hope someone stole his shades.

[One?]

those are delta force :bash:

anyways nice pics. Why is it that most of DC's law enforcement use HK and non-armalite weapons?

[Colt45]

You arent serious are you One? I hope not... Something tells me that if they were, they wouldnt be in black, theyre weapons wouldnt look all "pimped" out, and that guy would had the **** beaten out of him in the pics. ;)

[Ian H]

You mean the G36K's the Capitol police use? Dunno, maybe they just liked them better than Armalites, I believe there are ergonomic differences.
If you mean MP5's that's no big deal, the vast majority of tactical teams either do or have until recently used them. As for the P90's/FiveSeven's,they're probably used to allow agents to more easily kill attackers wearing body armour, which any serious attacker/terrorist would surely use. (Work to deal with the worst, and you should be OK with everything kind of idea.)



And yes, nice pics, thanks.

[ChuckThunder]

Probably within 5min

More like 5 seconds.

[guitarwolf]

what in the world was that guy thinking?
I hope someone stole his shades.

The White House is a nut magnet. Might as well be
a cool in your insanity.

This guy wasn't so lucky:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1159690.stm
Pic from that incident.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1155000/images/_1158834_alertafp300.jpg

Interesting to note that the tactical team from yesterday's incident
is dressed without patches or insignia. I've never seen that

before. I wonder if they're part of the CAT (counter assault team)
that travels in the Presidential motorcade to deal with ambushes.

I've seen those guys at the Vatican protecting Clinton when I toured Europe in 1994. Those dudes were built like brick
****houses. Don't mess with 'em.

[navylt]

The individuals with the shoulder patches and MP5s are Uniformed Secret Service. The individuals taking down the intruder are Secret Service agents and do sometimes travel with the the President in the CAT role. Later on, you might see those individuals in suits as part of a personal detail.

[Johnnyringo]

You mean the G36K's the Capitol police use? Dunno, maybe they just liked them better than Armalites, I believe there are ergonomic differences.
If you mean MP5's that's no big deal, the vast majority of tactical teams either do or have until recently used them. As for the P90's/FiveSeven's,they're probably used to allow agents to more easily kill attackers wearing body armour, which any serious attacker/terrorist would surely use. (Work to deal with the worst, and you should be OK with everything kind of idea.)



And yes, nice pics, thanks.

Why are they so effective against body armor? I don't want sound clueless, is there another thread somewhere about this gun?

[Ratamacue]

The P90 and Fiveseven use 5.7x28mm ammunition, which is shaped like a rifle round. The shape, light bullet, and large amount of powder basically give it a ridiculously high muzzle velocity for a pistol round.

[TriggerPuller]

The P90 and Fiveseven use 5.7x28mm ammunition, which is shaped like a rifle round. The shape, light bullet, and large amount of powder basically give it a ridiculously high muzzle velocity for a pistol round. The ammo I use for my .45 moves at about 2,050 to 2,100 fps and will pretty much go through any vest or ballistic glass.

TP

[Ratamacue]

The P90 and Fiveseven use 5.7x28mm ammunition, which is shaped like a rifle round. The shape, light bullet, and large amount of powder basically give it a ridiculously high muzzle velocity for a pistol round. The ammo I use for my .45 moves at about 2,050 to 2,100 fps and will pretty much go through any vest or ballistic glass.

TP

Is that some sort of special AP or high-velocity ammo? Last I remember the .45 has a very slow velocity compared to other pistol rounds even though it has more overall force behind it.

[One?]

NO i wasn't serious about the "delta force" thing. I was being sarcastic.

Ian yes I was refering to the G36 :)

[BlackRain]

I used a P90 in a demo course last year. It is light and extremely ergonomic. It has an interesting optical sight. The spent shells drop out the rear. It has a see through magazine so you can easily check ammo.

The main selling point was that it is a "counter-terrorist" weapon. It is designed to kill with the first shot by penetrating any body armour. It has a low recoil.

It is just a little strange holding it as it does not feel like a traditional subgun.

[TALOS]

The P90 and Fiveseven use 5.7x28mm ammunition, which is shaped like a rifle round. The shape, light bullet, and large amount of powder basically give it a ridiculously high muzzle velocity for a pistol round. The ammo I use for my .45 moves at about 2,050 to 2,100 fps and will pretty much go through any vest or ballistic glass.

TP

A .45 over 2 grand TP? that must be new.
the 5.7x28 is claimed to defeat over 34 layers of kevlar, I will look for the website
http://members.shaw.ca/toppsy/rs.htg/fn_tw_p90_r.jpeg
Edit: I stand corrected.... 48 layers of kevlar at 200 metres
http://www.fnhusa.com/contents/tw_p90.htm

[SILENT SCOPE]

Any one know if there are more pictures of this whole fiasco? It just isn't everyday one sees a P90 in action and they are cool looking things.

Hell I'd bet that guy ran up to the White House just so he could see the pretty guns rofl

[MetalBoy]

And maybe to get a 5.7x28 round in the face. He wondered what it would feel like.

[OzMan]

Would I be too crazy to think that this might have been just a live exercise to test the tactical response team? Keep in mind that I'm no expert, it's just a gut feeling.

[josh10524]

TP, are you using the RBCD Performance Plus TPD Ammo, @ 2000+ FPS 80 grain 45 ammo, or the Le Mas equiv? I know you are a proponent of the le mas stuff and the performance (velocity and penetration characteristics) closely resemble that of the RBCD stuff. or are you just using some hot conventional ammo?

[Nizark]

damn, thats a ugly frickin gun.

[Backis]

Would I be too crazy to think that this might have been just a live exercise to test the tactical response team? Keep in mind that I'm no expert, it's just a gut feeling.

Not at all.

I think they would have removed his sunglasses before moving him if this was a "real" incident (I would have, you can hide stuff in glasses after all, and I'm nowhere near as well trained as these guys ought to be ;)).

Pure guesswork tho...

[Seraphim]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9428

[Tengu]

P-90; a belgian pride: http://www.fnherstal.com/html/Index.htm woot

[Ekie]

I could see where a guy could conclude the following based on misleading FN sales hype:

"As for the P90's/FiveSeven's,they're probably used to allow agents to more easily kill attackers wearing body armour, which any serious attacker/terrorist would surely use."

"The main selling point was that it is a "counter-terrorist" weapon. It is designed to kill with the first shot by penetrating any body armour."

But I would think that the Secret Service would see through this hype and realize what they are buying are actually real fancy anti-squirrel invasion guns. I mean come on, a 5.7mm 31 grain bullet at 2,345fps? Combared to the 5.7x28 the 22 Hornet is high powered magnum round.

[Seoulstriker]

how does the horizontal cartridge get loaded into the chamber?

[TALOS]

I could see where a guy could conclude the following based on misleading FN sales hype:

"As for the P90's/FiveSeven's,they're probably used to allow agents to more easily kill attackers wearing body armour, which any serious attacker/terrorist would surely use."

"The main selling point was that it is a "counter-terrorist" weapon. It is designed to kill with the first shot by penetrating any body armour."

But I would think that the Secret Service would see through this hype and realize what they are buying are actually real fancy anti-squirrel invasion guns. I mean come on, a 5.7mm 31 grain bullet at 2,345fps? Combared to the 5.7x28 the 22 Hornet is high powered magnum round.
Except that a 22 doesnt penetrate 48 layers of kevlar at 200 metres.
You hit someone (without a vest ) enough times with a 22 they will go down, this just gets rid of the vest as defense is all.
http://www.fnmfg.com/lawenf/ss190/ss190.htm
Edit: o and one more thing, it wasnt meant as a primary assault style weapon originally, it was supposed to be a personal defense weapon.

[Seraphim]

how does the horizontal cartridge get loaded into the chamber?

It spins/turn.

[Ekie]

Sure, it is better then a 22LR. So what?

[Falco]

The P90 will load a round from the magazine in to the feeding mechanism and then it will rotates 90 degrees to line it up with the front (or end) barrel.

[guitarwolf]

Any one know if there are more pictures of this whole fiasco? It just isn't everyday one sees a P90 in action and they are cool looking things.


Those are all the photos I could find off of Yahoo News Photos.
I think they come from an Associate Press photog who was there.

I think the P90 was used by the Peruvians when they rescued
hostages from the Japanese Embassy takeover.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/6502/fujimoe1.jpg
Uh, Tango down.

[Seraphim]

http://www.gun-world.net/fn/p90/1997.jpg
http://www.gun-world.net/fn/p90/19.jpg

[ExtraT]

Hell I'd bet that guy ran up to the White House just so he could see the pretty guns rofl

If he wanted that, he would just watch Stargate SG-1. :) Or, maybe he watched it too much? rofl

[AK-Lover]

Man I never knew guns were supposed to be pretty. In my opinion american guns are ugliest! ;)

[TALOS]

Man I never knew guns were supposed to be pretty. In my opinion american guns are ugliest! ;)
Why is it that no matter what the subject some people just have to bring the americans into it and bash them?
Ak? whats with that? I am truly and honestly curious.

[MetalBoy]

Seraphim, are those pics from the hostage rescue in Lima, Peru? I remember seeing some pictures like this at the time, with guys shooting in from a roof during the rescue.

edit- :cantbeli: duh... nevermind, should read the posts first before opening my **** holster :cantbeli: -edit

[Vintendo]

Hell I'd bet that guy ran up to the White House just so he could see the pretty guns rofl

If he wanted that, he would just watch Stargate SG-1. :) Or, maybe he watched it too much? rofl
http://www.stargatefan.com/episodes7/0712/images/evol24.jpg
http://www.stargatefan.com/episodes4/0409/images/SE095C.jpg
P90s are obviously just as effective against aliens as are terrorists.

[Micke]

damn, thats a ugly frickin gun.
I second that.
Looks like a spaced out *** toy.

[Micke]

Man I never knew guns were supposed to be pretty. In my opinion american guns are ugliest! ;)
Just to piss you and all the cocky anti-everything-american kalashnikov commie wannabe couch-commando's off, I'm gonna post this lovely video. :P
http://1919a4.com/gca/kcr-killtheak.mpg
Have a look at that, AK Lover.

[Tengu]

Man I never knew guns were supposed to be pretty. In my opinion american guns are ugliest! ;)
Just to piss you and all the cocky anti-everything-american kalashnikov commie wannabe couch-commando's off, I'm gonna post this lovely video. :P
http://1919a4.com/gca/kcr-killtheak.mpg
Have a look at that, AK Lover.link doesn't work :|

[JiJoMacLE45]

I don't think those guys were the counterassault team. The uniformed branch also has a tactical element, I think's it's called the emergency service team or EST, something along those lines. That was more than likely who bagged the fruitcake.

[guitarwolf]

http://us.news1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20050427/i/r4009427684.jpg

" A uniformed Secret Service officer toting a shotgun stands guard inside the northwest gate of the White House during a security alert, April 27, 2005. The alert was raised on fears that an unidentified aircraft had entered restricted space near the White House, prompting President Bush to move to an underground shelter. The alert lasted a few minutes before officials determined it was a false alarm."

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050427/capt.dcgh10204271543.white_house_security_dcgh102.jpg

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20050427/capt.dcgh10104271536.white_house_security_dcgh101.jpg

"Vanilla Mocha extra hot...Vanilla MochAAAA"

[ValkXB70]

Just read this thread, so forgive the revival. This comment made me laugh:


In my opinion american guns are ugliest

Since the weapon being discussed was the Fabrique National P90. I will assume this is what you were referring to. Well hate to break it but, that is not an American design. It's Belgium's design, thanks for playing.