The Danish experiance - the end of Europe soon?

[ED209]

So I was looking at the pictures posted in the "strictly pictures and videos" section for the 5th of feb. 2006 and I saw all the Muslims protesting and holding placards saying that "europe is the cancer and Isalm is the answer' etc...

If this happens over something so mundane as cartoons, how long before muslims in Europe really go out and start the islamic revolution in Europe. In 30-40 years there will be even more muslims in Europe...what will happen then if someone publishes a cartoon like this?

Do you guys think that Europe and the Western world as we know it is bound to come to an end in 30, 40 or even 50 years, taking into acount the current trend in immigration and general emmasculation of the western world nowadays?

[Andy S]

so the way to annony is to draw a cartoon yet invading a fellow islamic county isnt really something to write home about,

Funny old world.

[ED209]

Never mind

[dangerclose]

Europeans are p*ssies. They are finished.

[Argyll]

speak for yourself......If Europe is finished,then America will have no one left to conquer the world with,and they don't have the manpower to go it alone..........p-)

[Hydro]

If Europe falls, then rest assured the US would soon follow ;)

How long until we see the "Muslim Dawn" made for TV movie?

[Johnny_H02]

So I was looking at the pictures posted in the "strictly pictures and videos" section for the 5th of feb. 2006 and I saw all the Muslims protesting and holding placards saying that "europe is the cancer and Isalm is the answer' etc...

If this happens over something so mundane as cartoons, how long before muslims in Europe really go out and start the islamic revolution in Europe. In 30-40 years there will be even more muslims in Europe...what will happen then if someone publishes a cartoon like this?

Do you guys think that Europe and the Western world as we know it is bound to come to an end in 30, 40 or even 50 years, taking into acount the current trend in immigration and general emmasculation of the western world nowadays?

Havent we heard this tune befor?
America for Americans
Deustchland Erwach
etc???????????

[ocdt goose]

Hey, if Europe is finished, America is finished! , just the same way that if America is finished, Europe is finished! Anyway I don't see too much to worry about Europe wide in the protests at the moment but that could soon change

[TuNeRsHaRk]

why were the other threads disussing this all closed

i hope norway and denmark takes action against all this, after all it wasnt the goverment that made the cartoons it was some idiot newspaper editor

[BlackRain]

http://i.today.*******.com/misc/genImage.aspx?uri=2006-02-05T130938Z_01_L05188385_RTRUKOP_2_PICTURE2.jpg&resize=full

A Turkish right-winger shouts slogans as he waves a make-shift Danish flag during a protest march towards the Danish consulate in Istanbul February 5, 2006. Over a thousand protesters shouting slogans threw eggs at the alley where the Danish consulate is located in Istanbul on Sunday, in protest over cartoons that Muslims say insult Islam and the Prophet Mohammad. *******/Stringer

http://i.today.*******.com/misc/genImage.aspx?uri=2006-02-05T130938Z_01_L05188385_RTRUKOP_2_PICTURE3.jpg&resize=full

A Pakistani activist from Pakistan's Islami Jamiat-e-Talba holds a placard during a rally in Peshawar February 5, 2006. Islamic Pakistan summoned diplomats of several European countries on Saturday to protest against the reprinting of "derogatory and blasphemous" cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad. *******/Ali Imam

[S70A_9]

Denmark should cut all ties with EVERY predominantly islamic nation immediately, NEVER give aid to any of these countries and BAN all incoming refugess of this religion.

It's not like these middle eastern (I generalise...tut tut) countries are poor... oh wait, it is not countries to be concerned with as this is a religion spread across all continents... I rephrase, it's not like this is a poor religion, given the millions and millions of dollars poured through mosques and dodgy oil deals all over the world, a large sum of which ends up in the hands of 'organizations' like Hamas to pay the families of suicide bombers etc. Why give this religion any assistance at all? Surely there is enough money in this religion to look after it's followers.
Stuff that.

[sct1886]

The people of Europe are discovering what thier forefathers learned at the wrong end of a Muslim sword or spear. They too are relearning the reasons the people fought long and hard at the hands of the Ottoman Turks and the Moors. They are finding out why there are walls around cities, it was to keep the Muslims out. Muslims cannot readily spread thier religion by peaceful means so they do it as they did in the past, by intimidation, terrorism and indoctrination of the ignorant. The Muslims can learn to live as Romans in Rome or get the hell out of Europe. This will get uglier before it gets better.

[Argyll]

actually most Arab countries including Iraq have told the Danes they're not welcome,and they don't want them involved in reconstruction

This is pretty serious,because the Danes will become the focus of the Militias down South......

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_1875585,00.html

[eucalyptus]

actually most Arab countries including Iraq have told the Danes they're not welcome,and they don't want them involved in reconstruction

This is pretty serious,because the Danes will become the focus of the Militias down South......

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_1875585,00.html
Good point, first time I thought about that.

[Argyll]

Ok Templars........if the war has begun,then we've lost,because without resorting to violence how can we reverse the roles,without breaking the laws of our lands?

[LoveMeister]

http://i.today.*******.com/misc/genImage.aspx?uri=2006-02-05T130938Z_01_L05188385_RTRUKOP_2_PICTURE3.jpg&resize=full


I don't mind being hated - but in such a sloppy half-arsed way?! Look at that sign: At least spell the name of the country you hate so much correct...

And next time we piss you off write a draft first for your sign so the spacing are more even.

Barbarian.

- The LoveMeister

[S70A_9]

It's not a brave new world. It's a pathetic one.
Civilized nations are bound by national borders, laws only apply within them, and you get along OK by abiding by them.

Religion sees no borders, recognises no laws (except it's own), and tollerates nothing a nation might say against it. With the risk of offence against a mass of people but across many countries, religion can become a powerful weapon when manipulted correctly by those who want it so, as it will not be condemned.

In so many ways there are cannot be polarisation of the world as we look at it (it's a very grey area so to speak), but at the same time increasingly so it is the only way you can look at it. :-|

[seruriermarshal]

actually most Arab countries including Iraq have told the Danes they're not welcome,and they don't want them involved in reconstruction

This is pretty serious,because the Danes will become the focus of the Militias down South......

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_1875585,00.html


Then you aren't welcome in there ? You in Basra ? there have Militias , but you still in there .

[Apathy]

To the Danish posters, I remember reading about how Adolf Hitler took over your country and how strongly you resisted it. When the order was given that all Danish Jews had to wear a David Star, your king was one of the first to wear it. What happened to that defiance?


:(

[DOOMSDAYDEXTER]

You might care to check the unemployment rates and the current antipathy towards the west/U.S. in the countries protesting so much before you make judgement about ISLAMIC world. Although next time you find me protesting on the streets for the government / wider state sponsered relegion remind me to shut the F**k up and get a ****ing job.

Regards

[BlackRain]

speak for yourself......If Europe is finished,then America will have no one left to conquer the world with,and they don't have the manpower to go it alone..........p-)

http://images.scotsman.com/2006/02/06/0602prob.jpg

A Muslim cleric protester stands in front of the Danish embassy in Beirut after it was set on fire.


The USA has 63 million men who are eligible for a Selective Service Draft. Remember, just 7 million Americans served in WWII.

[Apathy]

http://images.scotsman.com/2006/02/06/0602prob.jpg

A Muslim cleric protester stands in front of the Danish embassy in Beirut after it was set on fire.


The USA has 63 million men who are eligible for a Selective Service Draft. Remember, just 7 million Americans served in WWII.

We're also about to break the 300 million mark for our population. :)

[ED209]

The people of Europe are discovering what thier forefathers learned at the wrong end of a Muslim sword or spear. They too are relearning the reasons the people fought long and hard at the hands of the Ottoman Turks and the Moors. They are finding out why there are walls around cities, it was to keep the Muslims out. Muslims cannot readily spread thier religion by peaceful means so they do it as they did in the past, by intimidation, terrorism and indoctrination of the ignorant. The Muslims can learn to live as Romans in Rome or get the hell out of Europe. This will get uglier before it gets better.

Hurray, finally someone with some historical prespective!
Finally someone who talks sense.

[Kitsune]

I don't know what the fuss is about. If some people want to destroy Denmark, let them. It's not that big, anyway. We just write it off as expenses or something...

p-)

[Apathy]

I don't know what the fuss is about. If some people want to destroy Denmark, let them. It's not that big, anyway. We just write it off as expenses or something...

p-)

But but but...it's your little brother!

:<

[ED209]

I don't know what the fuss is about. If some people want to destroy Denmark, let them. It's not that big, anyway. We just write it off as expenses or something...

p-)

Then YOUR country will be next. But I guess you like the thought of that don't you?

What always shocks me is that Europe seems to have a collective low self-esteem...it looks like so many Europeans crave their own destruction and that they think that others are better than them.

[Apathy]

Then YOUR country will be next. But I guess you like the thought of that don't you?

What always shocks me is that Europe seems to have a collective low self-esteem...it looks like so many Europeans crave their own destruction and that they think that others are better than them.

I think he was being sarcastic....

[jmatucd]

Well, I doubt there is much of a debate whether Europe is and has been suicidal for some time

Let them be over run, let the islamic radicals bring them the 9/11s they promised while 'demonstrating' in ths streets

We're not going to lift a finger this time, not our problem.

[Kitsune]

So many quotes to answer, yet so little time...*sigh*




But but but...it's your little brother!
Nope. That's Holland. The black sheep of the family so to speak.





Then YOUR country will be next. But I guess you like the thought of that don't you?
They can't destroy the Rhineland. We're still needed.





What always shocks me is that Europe seems to have a collective low self-esteem...it looks like so many Europeans crave their own destruction and that they think that others are better than them.
Hmmm. That's not exactly my problem. I personally think that Rhinelanders are superior to any other people on the planet. (Especially so to Bavarians, but that is another story...)
And besides that, I plan to live until I am 200 years old. Possibly more.





Let them be over run, let the islamic radicals bring them the 9/11s they promised while 'demonstrating' in ths streets

We're not going to lift a finger this time, not our problem.

So you did lift a finger after the last 9/11? Sounds as if there would be an interesting story behind it... And? What happened?

[wiking]

To the Danish posters, I remember reading about how Adolf Hitler took over your country and how strongly you resisted it. When the order was given that all Danish Jews had to wear a David Star, your king was one of the first to wear it. What happened to that defiance?


:(

was that sarcasm? The danes surrendered after a few hours.

[Apathy]

was that sarcasm? The danes surrendered after a few hours.

I meant in other ways.


Despite its continued neutrality Denmark was invaded by Germany (Operation Weserübung), on April 9, 1940. Though at first accorded self-rule (which ended in 1943 due to a mounting resistance movement), Denmark remained militarily occupied throughout World War II. The Danish sympathy for the Allied Cause was strong; 1,900 Danish Police Officers were arrested by the Gestapo and sent, under guard, to be interned in Buchenwald.


In 1942, Adolf Hitler sent the king a long telegram congratulating him on his 72nd birthday. The king's reply telegram was a mere Meinen besten Dank. Chr. Rex (English: My thanks. King Christian). This perceived (and no doubt deliberate) slight greatly outraged Hitler and he immediately recalled his ambassador from Copenhagen and expelled the Danish ambassador from Germany.


Another popular story, generally accepted as truth, concerned Christian's resistance to the flying of the Nazi flag over Christiansborg Castle, home of the Danish Rigsdag, during the occupation. According to the story, the king summoned a senior Nazi general and instructed him to remove the flag. When the general refused to do so, Christian declared, "A Danish soldier will remove it." The German officer said that such a soldier would be shot. The king's reply was "I think not. For I shall be that soldier." The general immediately ordered the removal of the flag.

All of this is taken from Wiki.

[wiking]

I meant in other ways.

All of this is taken from Wiki.

Guess i should read up on the Danish resistance :oops: The king sounds like a cool buggerwoot

[ogukuo72]

And don't forget how the Danes helped their Jewish citizens to escape the Nazi round-up in 1943. The Danes have always been a gutsy people.


The Holocaust of WW2 is certain to be remembered as humanity's blackest chapter of the century - between 1941 and 1945, German dictator Adolf Hitler and his Nazis murdered some 6 million Jews. Amidst the madness of war, there are moments of hope and illumination. In World War II, one such instance was the Danish Jews’ escape from Hitler’s genocidal plan to eradicate all Jews from Europe. The nobility of the human soul on a night when the Danes got truly fed up with the führer ...

Danish Jews reached safety ..

It's one of the great untold stories of World War II: In 1943, in German-occupied Denmark, the Danish people find out that all 7,500 Danish Jews are about to be rounded up and deported to German concentration camps. Danish citizens spontaneously make their own decision: it's not going to happen. And it didn't. Risking their own lives, the Danes quickly rallied round to save their fellow citizens, and almost all of the country's Jews were able to escape the clutches of the Nazis and find refuge in neutral Sweden.

In 1941, in the midst of World War II, the Germans began their "Final Solution" for the Jews. At that time there were 10 million Jews in the countries of German-occupied Europe. By 1945, less than half of that number were left alive. The Nazi goal was to exterminate the Jews and rule Europe in an ethnically "pure" German Empire.

At the infamous Wannsee Conference near Berlin, in 1941, details of the mass murder plans were discussed. Documents from that conference are still in existence today. They list, country by country, the number of Jews in Europe. Against the entry for Denmark is the figure 5,600-the inaccurate Nazi estimate of the number of Jews in Denmark.


Final Solution: Auschwitz Bergen-Belsen Belzec Sobibor Treblinka

Denmark was a small idyllic country of 4 million people, with a history of taking in immigrants from countries such as Germany, Holland, Sweden, and Poland. Before the war, Denmark's small Jewish population was well integrated into the community.

On April 9, 1940, Germany attacked Denmark. From then until 1945, Denmark was under German occupation. Most Danes were pro-British and anti-Nazi, but they were also aware of the need to adjust to living in a German-dominated Europe. Danes and Germans quickly worked out the terms of occupation. King Christian X remained in Denmark, unlike his fellow monarchs in Norway and the Netherlands who fled to escape the Germans and establish resistance movements in England. The Danish government continued to rule. The Danes agreed to supply rich agricultural produce and other goods to the Germans.

By the following year, however, a Danish resistance movement had begun, but it made little headway until 1943. Then the mood in Denmark began to change. German military targets and businesses working for the occupiers were hit by a wave of sabotage actions. There was also labor unrest, with massive strikes - widely supported by the populace - in many Danish cities.



The King on his horse, followed by Danish citizens on bicycles

The legend says that when the Germans ordered Jews in occupied Denmark to identify themselves by wearing armbands with yellow stars, King Christian X of Denmark and non-Jewish Danes thwarted the order by donning the armbands themselves. A popular version of the legend has King Christian sporting an armband as he makes his daily morning horseback ride through the streets of Copenhagen, explaining to citizens that he wears the Star of David as a demonstration of the principal that all Danes are equal. And non-Jewish Danes respond to their king's example by wearing the armband as well, thus preventing the Germans from identifying Jewish citizens and rendering the order ineffective.

Although the Danes did undertake heroic efforts to shelter their Jews and help them escape from the Nazis, there is no real-life example of the actions described by this legend. Danish citizens never wore the yellow badge, nor did King Christian ever threaten to don it himself. In fact, Danish Jews never wore the yellow badge either, nor did German officials ever issue an order requiring Danish Jews to display it.

But the Danes engaged in symbolic gestures of defiance against their occupiers, such as wearing four coins tied together with red and white ribbons in their buttonholes. Red and white are the Danish colors, and four coins totalling nine ore represented the date of the occupation, April 9.







In the book Queen in Denmark by Anne Wolden-Ræthinge the Danish Queen Margrethe II says about the legend:"It is a beautiful and symbolic story, but it is not true. The myth about the King wearing the star of David ... I can imagine that this could have originated from a typical remark by a Copenhagen errand boy on his bicycle: 'If they try to enforce the yellow star here, the King will be the first to wear it!' To me, the truth is an even greater honor for our country than the myth."

King Christian X became a prominent figure for the real views of the majority of the Danish population. The King made it his practice to ride his horse alone through Copenhagen every morning to underline his continuing claims for national sovereignty, unarmed and without escort. He became a national symbol for rich and poor alike, a positive contrast to German militarism and to the cult of the Fuhrer. In fact King Christian rejected many aspects of the occupation, made speeches against the occupying force and became known as a protector of the Jews.

In December 1941, after an arson at the synagogue in Copenhagen, he sent a letter of sympathy to Rabbi Marcus Melchior. The welfare of the Danish Jews was of great importance to the king and the Danish government. "There is no Jewish question in Denmark" were the words of Foreign Minister Erik Scavenius to the German top Nazi Hermann Goring in autumn 1941.

Tales of King Christian's snubbing of Hitler and the Nazis (some true and some apocryphal) began to circulate. When Hitler sent a letter of congratulations to King Christian X on the latter's 70th birthday in September 1942, the monarch's brief response ("My best thanks") was taken as an insult by Hitler, who recalled and replaced the German ambassador in Denmark.

August 1943: Danish adaption to German occupation turned to resistance

In August, 1943, a state of emergency was declared in Denmark, and the Nazis decided that they could now move against the Jews. In September Hitler approved the deportation of the Danish Jews. Werner Best of the SS, Hitler's chief in Denmark, received the final order to proceed with deportation of Jews to death camps, on Sept.28, 1943. The Nazis were prepared to deport the 7,500 Jews, starting at 10 PM. on Oct.1, 1943. Georg F. Duckwitz, a German maritime attaché, leaked out the order to Hans Hedtoft a Danish Social Democrat, who in turn warned C.B. Henriques, the head the Jewish Community.

On September 29th, two days before the projected round up on Rosh HaShannah, the Jewish New Year, Dr. Marcus Melchior, the acting chief Rabbi of the Krystalgaade Synagogue, implored his stunned congregants and the whole Jewish community to go into hiding immediately. Two German passenger ships, docked in Copenhagen’s port, were ready to ship approximately 5,000 Jews to Germany on their way to kz camp Theresienstadt. Buses were to take the remaining 2,500.

The word was passed and many Danes offered their support, conveying warnings and finding places for the Jews to hide. Danes felt that persecution of minorities was a breach of Danish culture and they were not prepared to stand for it.

Danish Jews’ escape from Hitler’s genocidal plan

From all strata of Danish society and in all parts of the country, clergymen, civil servants, doctors, store owners, farmers, fishermen and teachers protected the Jews. A united Lutheran Church openly and persistently challenged the German offensive. Many Torahs from Rabbi Melchior’s synagogue were hidden a few blocks away in the crypt of Trinity Church. Dr. Koster, who was in charge of Bispebjerg Hospital, was instrumental in arranging for hundreds of Jews to be hidden at the hospital before they made their escape to Sweden. The psychiatric building and the nurses' quarters were filled with refugees, who were all fed from the hospital kitchen. Virtually the entire medical staff at the hospital cooperated to save Jewish lives. Once it became known among Danes what the hospital was doing, money was donated from all over the country.

The Danish police and coast guard also took sides with the oppressed by refusing to assist in the manhunt. Not to mention the Wehrmacht soldiers, some of whom looked the other way - moved by either compassion or bribes.

To make their escape, many refugees were driven to the coast in ambulances belonging to the hospital. Local fishermen agreed, for a price, to transport them to Sweden. But they weren't safe yet. Successfully completing the two-mile boat trip without being intercepted by German patrol boats was not easy.


Gilleleje

Gilleleje, one of the larger fishing harbours, lies at the northernmost point of the island of Zealand with train connections to Copenhagen. About one fifth of the Danish Jews escaped to Sweden via this village. Fishing boats as well as coastal freighters from the harbour took part. Jews were familiar with Gilleleje from summer holidays in the country and came to the area in droves. A committee of local people were quick to initiate rescue aid, even before representatives for the rescue groups in Copenhagen arrived. Many were needed to help find hiding places and food.

One of the survivors, Leif Wassermann, was only five years old when his family, including his parents, grandparents and younger sister, fled to their coastal summer home in Gilleleje. He later recalled how his father carried him down into the dark hull of the boat in the middle of the night, but he remembered the hushed voices, the cramped feeling as people crowded inside and the rotten smell of fish. They were rescued by Henny Sondig, the 19-year-old daughter of the boat manager, and the four-man crew of the the 20-ton lighthouse tender, named the Gerda III.

`We stayed very low on the floor. We heard there were German patrols outside. We saw flashlights going through the windows,´ Wassermann recalled. Although the Gerda III was regularly boarded by German soldiers, the refugees were never discovered. The boat made more than a dozen trips with groups of five to 20 people crammed inside the hull - thus saving many Jewish families from annihilation.Leif Wassermann and his family were not able to return to their homeland until May 5, 1945, when Denmark was liberated. Years later he was appointed vice consul and commercial attache of the Danish government in New York.

Adolf Eichmann and Werner Best

Over the course of a few days, more than 7,000 Danish Jews reached safety in Sweden. Only 481 were captured and sent to a Nazi prison at Theresienstadt. Conditions there were hard, but Theresienstadt was not a death camp. And The Danish acts of bravery did not end with those dramatic weeks in the fall of 1943. Danes continued to protect the unfortunate 481 Jews whom the Germans were able to capture. Danish officials convinced Adolf Eichmann via Werner Best to keep the Jews from Denmark away from Poland and the extermination camps. Best was interested in improving relations with the Danish authorities in light of the events in October. Eichmann was presumably hoping to present an idealized propaganda image to conceal the fact of mass genocide, which by 1943 had cost the lives of 3 million Jews.

Almost all of the Danish Jews in the camp survived through the solicitude and support of the Danish civil service and church organizations. Month after month, the Danes sent over 700 packages of clothing, food and vitamins to the Jews in the camp. In June 1944, at the insistence of the Danish leadership, the Danish Red Cross inspected Theresienstadt to ascertain the condition of their Jewish compatriots.

Danish fishermen saving Jews

The rescue of the Danish Jews is an inspiring story from a terrible time in human history. In most other Nazi-occupied countries, the Germans found it easy to deport the Jews. No one defended them the way the Danes did. Ninety-nine percent of the Jewish population was rescued and survived the war years, mostly in neutral Sweden and a few hundred in Theresienstadt under the distant but constantly protective concern of the Danes.

Denmark was also different and special in another way. Almost everywhere else in Europe, returning Jews found their homes had been broken into, and everything of value stolen. When the Danish Jews returned , they discovered that their homes, pets, gardens and personal belongings were cared for by their neighbors.

Georg Duckwitz honored by Israel

Werner Best was arrested when Denmark was liberated in 1945, his death sentence was reduced to 12 years in jail, by Denmark's Supreme Court, he died in 1989. Georg Duckwitz after the war served as Germany's Ambassador to Denmark and was honored by Israel for his part in the rescue of Jews, he died in 1973. Mr. Hans Hedtoft, the Danish politician and statesman, served as postwar Prime Minister of Denmark.


Hans Hedtoft

Hans Hedtoft was instrumental in saving the Danish Jews. As secretary of the Social Democratic party in 1935 Hans Hedtoft was elected to Parliament, but he resigned his seat in 1940, during the German occupation of Denmark in WWII. A member of the Danish resistance movement, Hedtoft became minister of social affairs in the first postwar government in 1945. He headed a Social Democratic government in 1947-50. Hedtoft again became prime minister in 1953, but died in Stockholm that year while attending a meeting of the Nordic Council.

In Jerusalem, a boat-like monument was erected on the 25th anniversary of the rescue of Danish Jewry, and a school was named in Denmark's honor. Many cities and towns in Israel have a street or square commemorating the heroism of the Danes. Moreover, one of the prominent items on display in Yad Vashem, the Holocaust Memorial in Jerusalem, is a small boat that was used to ferry Jews to safety in Sweden. The boat is situated near the Righteous Alley, signifying rescue, hope, life - and trust in the human spirit. Its display is a tribute to the Danes who made the difference during the most tragic period in the last century.

In Copenhagen's Israelplads there is a monument from Eilat stone with an inscription in both Danish and Hebrew, a gift of the people of Israel. King Christian X' grandchild, Denmark's Queen Margrethe II, was the patron of the events marking the 50th anniversary of the rescue operation of Danish Jews.

Louis Bülow

[PeterG]

was that sarcasm? The danes surrendered after a few hours.

Take a quick look at the map, Denmark is tiny and flat as a pancake - and they share a border with Germany. There was no way they could fight the german warmachine. We norwegians should look at our own pathetic response to the german invasion, before criticizing others....

[PeterG]

actually most Arab countries including Iraq have told the Danes they're not welcome,and they don't want them involved in reconstruction

This is pretty serious,because the Danes will become the focus of the Militias down South......

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/Iraq/0,,2-10-1460_1875585,00.html


The insurgents must be drooling at the thought of the prestige gained in the muslim world by killing a few danes..The danes must be obviously be extremely careful in the future. There are strategic consequences too - there are surely NO support in Denmark at the moment for a continued presence in Iraq, and the troops WILL be withdrawn soon. It has always been somewhat controversial - but now, nobody wants to stay. There will be no economic help in the reconstruction effort either - the iraqis have clearly signalled they don't want it.

[Rifleman]

"The lost paradise of Al Andalus," explicitly mentioned in the text, is a common meme in the Muslim world. It has led to concrete fatwas declared in order to recover territories conquered by Christian "infidels," such as that of three years ago by the Islamist sheik Yousef Al-Qaradhawi, which explicitly says that "Islam will return to Europe as the conqueror." Al-Qaradhawi is the leader of the European Council for Fatwa and Research, the president of the International Association of Muslim Scholars, and the spiritual leader of many other Islamist organizations around the world.

http://www.spainherald.com/2414.html

They seem to have more on the drawing board than many give them credit for.

[East Scout]

Islam will bring about the next dark age........

[Atlantic Friend]

Europeans are p*ssies. They are finished.

Ah, yes, I think I remember the kind of "one good kick on the door and the whole rotten building will go down crumbling" rhetoric.

Europeans are pussies, but thank God we have you as a representant of the Master Race/Culture to save Civilization, eh, Danger ?

[perdurabo]

jeezzz why we are playing with them in their games, lets take initiative and play our game on their backyard, enough of them burning our flags, enough of our ambasies in flames...

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Europeans are p*ssies. They are finished.

Americans are gay. They are finished.

[caridon]

Hurray, finally someone with some historical prespective!
Finally someone who talks sense.

You might waant to reread your hgistory if you think that is the reasons.

Most cities were waled because the "asshole in charge" was afraind of his christian neighbouring "asshole in charge" not because of the terrible muslims.

/C

[Argyll]

either that they were scared of the Celts!!

[Lurps]

If anyone doesnt like it anymore were they are you can emigrate to Finland. :) We need imigrants in the future because of ageing of the population. Summers are warm and winters arent cold as they used to be. Taxes are high but you get free health-care and education up to university. And every one speaks English. http://virtual.finland.fi/ http://blogs.washingtonpost.com/finlanddiary/

[Macs.]

http://images.scotsman.com/2006/02/06/0602prob.jpg

A Muslim cleric protester stands in front of the Danish embassy in Beirut after it was set on fire.


The USA has 63 million men who are eligible for a Selective Service Draft. Remember, just 7 million Americans served in WWII.

I actually saw that Pic on TV, and the cleric was trying to get the mob away from storming the people.

[Kitsune]

Enough jokes. Now let me talk straight here.



This matter is completely exaggerated. It were some cartoons, nothing more. I do not think that it is especially wise to blow this matter up as it is presently done, but if certain people want to turn this into an international incident, they can have one. Be my guest.

Here we go:
By printing those cartoons the ones doing so were practicing their rights to speak their mind. Similiar things have done for the Christian faith, take "The Life of Brian" by Monty Python for example. It's not about wether, as a European, one finds this kind of humour especially amusing (I personally liked "Life of Brian", but I know at least one devout Christian who, well, to put it carefully, did not), it's about free speech.
Now, someone can say: but this is offensive! Well, yes, it is. But that is sort of point when it comes to free speech. I mean, if we forbid all statements that possibly offend some a-hole...there is not much left, isn't there? What would become out of Parisian cabarets, what out of Speaker's Corner in London, what out of carnival speeches in Cologne if everything is forbidden that someone sees as an attack on his or her integrity or competence? If one defangs free speech like this, there would be no point in having it anymore.
Therefore, I say: the right to offend someone has to be defended. Some newspapers all over Europe did that by reprinting the cartoons. That should be commended, not criticised. Bravo!
Unfortunately, this spirit did not hold long. The Danish government has already apologized. And, don't you believe it, the United States goverment has officially backed the Muslims (as did some Jewish organisations, it seems) in an obvious attempt to score some points on the cheap. (And has, in my view, thereby once more confirmed what one has to think of this present American administration...)
The thing is: we in Europe have no reason to apologize. some of us have spoken their minds, that is all. But we did not attacked Arab embassies or failed in their protection. We did not threaten anyone with force. We even accepted and continue to accept if those Muslims who feel offended say so, or demonstrate as is their right. As long as this done peacefully.
And this is how we should proceed: Stand firm. No provocation from our side. Accept criticism of any Muslim who behaves in a civilized way, but let anyone who steps over the line have it.
And for those, who declare or hope that this would be the "end of Europe", I say only this:
Not yet. It takes more to bring us down then some cartoons and a bunch of Muslim hooligans. But your comments are noted.

[Pvt.Anderson]

So many quotes to answer, yet so little time...*sigh*


Hmmm. That's not exactly my problem. I personally think that Rhinelanders are superior to any other people on the planet. (Especially so to Bavarians, but that is another story...)

Am arsch kannst mich lecken preissenhobel =]

[caridon]

I actually saw that Pic on TV, and the cleric was trying to get the mob away from storming the people.

can you tell me the channel and show ?

/C

[foxtrot023]

http://images.scotsman.com/2006/02/06/0602prob.jpg

A Muslim cleric protester stands in front of the Danish embassy in Beirut after it was set on fire.


The USA has 63 million men who are eligible for a Selective Service Draft. Remember, just 7 million Americans served in WWII.

In 1944 alone, the US armed forces were over 12 million folks. All in all over 20 million served ;)

[foxtrot023]

can you tell me the channel and show ?

/C

I saw it of the TVE1 news of Spain. The clergy were trying to stop the rock throwing from the demonstrators. Estrangely enough, the protestors ignored them.

[Pan_Grzegorz]

If anyone doesnt like it anymore were they are you can emigrate to Finland. :)

How can I do that :) ?

[Lurps]

How can I do that :) ? Well i guess all you need is a job that is open or get married to a Finn. Better yet if you start some business.

[a_very_ex_STAB]

the United States goverment has officially backed the Muslims

Yeah what a bunch of pussies

[ENSIGN FOREVER]

Hey Europe, look at the bright side. This is the perfect excuse to deport a whole bunch of them back to the desert.

[toki]

Hey Europe, look at the bright side. This is the perfect excuse to deport a whole bunch of them back to the desert.
The muslims in germany were relatively quiet. And the central council of muslims in germany officially condemned violent protests and called it a shame.

[BlackRain]

I actually saw that Pic on TV, and the cleric was trying to get the mob away from storming the people.

Yeah right. More fiction.

http://cache.*****images.com/xc/56748624.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=AAAB1D3D22B8F28C280FB9E6BD8666C8


Beirut, LEBANON: A Muslim cleric joins protesters 05 February 2006 outside the Danish consulate in Beirut in the latest violence against the publication of cartoons depicting Prophet Mohammad in European newspapers recently. The protesters set fire to the building housing the Danish consulate in a Christian neighbourhood of the Lebanese capital and attacked other property despite the presence of security forces, in the latest violent protest against the cartoons, first published in a Danish newspaper in September 2005. At least twenty eight people were wounded in the violent protests. EDS NOTE: Correcting type of Danish diplomatic mission. AFP PHOTO/HAITHAM MUSSAWI (Photo credit should read HAITHAM MUSSAWI/AFP/***** Images)

Source: http://editorial.*****images.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=56748624&cdi=0


http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/canwest/90/beirut_020506.jpg

A Muslim cleric shouts slogans as Lebanese demonstrators set fire to the building housing the Danish consulate in a Christian neighbourhood of Beirut 05 February 2006 in the latest violent protest against cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed.

[Wodan]

The muslims in germany were relatively quiet. And the central council of muslims in germany officially condemned violent protests and called it a shame.

thats true, here in germany the muslims were peaceful, even tough german newspapers reprinted it..

[Clearday-TRForce]

thats true, here in germany the muslims were peaceful, even tough german newspapers reprinted it..


coz Germany s muslims are Turks not others.

3-3,5 ml Turks living in Germany.

[Clearday-TRForce]

DAMASCUS - The Associated Press


Syrian anti-terrorism forces clashed with a group of Muslim extremists on the outskirts of the capital on Sunday, killing one local leader and capturing two other mean, the official Syrian Arab News Agency reported Sunday.

SANA said the group was planning attacks in Damascus.

The anti-terrorism force clashed with the group for about half an hour, killing a local leader and capturing two of his aides. SANA initially reported that the two aides were killed but later sent a correction saying they had been captured.

The forces also confiscated weapons in the residential apartment in the area of Kafar Batna on the outskirts of Damascus.

SANA identified the militants only as "takfiris," a reference to extremists who brand as infidels other Muslims who don't adhere to their views.

The clash was the first since Dec. 8, when Syrian forces battled a group of Islamic extremists holed up in a farmhouse in the city of Idlib, 330 kilometers (200 miles) north of Damascus, killing eight in a fight that ended when some of the militants blew themselves up rather than be captured.

Syria faces homegrown militants and clashed last year with gunmen from the Jund al-Sham Islamic group.

On Sept. 2, Syrian security forces killed five members of Jund al-Sham, which means Soldiers of Syria, in the north of the country and seized bombs and weapons.

Jund al-Sham was formed in Afghanistan by Syrian, Palestinian and Jordanian militants with links to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the head of al-Qaeda in Iraq.


regards,
CDTRF

[toki]

coz Germany s muslims are Turks not others.

3-3,5 ml Turks living in Germany.
Not only, there are quite some from northern africa (many of them marrocans and tunisians), the balkans, and the midlde east (lebanon etc), but you're right most are turkish.

[Vandervahn]

I actually saw that Pic on TV, and the cleric was trying to get the mob away from storming the people.

Yeah right. More fiction.

http://cache.*****images.com/xc/56748624.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=AAAB1D3D22B8F28C280FB9E6BD8666C8

BlackRain, I saw video FOOTAGE of this man (or someone of strikingly similar appearance) trying to shove protestors away from the embassy and tear down their anti-danish signs. So much for the "fiction".

[shire19]

Yeah right. More fiction.

http://cache.*****images.com/xc/56748624.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=AAAB1D3D22B8F28C280FB9E6BD8666C8




I saw this guy on BBC and CNN trying to push the protesters back, it wasnt just him but other clerics that were dressed just like him, because of the black colour Im guessing he is Sh'ia.

[caridon]

BlackRain, I saw video FOOTAGE of this man (or someone of strikingly similar appearance) trying to shove protestors away from the embassy and tear down their anti-danish signs. So much for the "fiction".

It realy is no idea to try to use logic with BlackRain.

<sarcasm>
He knows his "divinely inspired truth" and nothing will stop him from educating the world about the threat of the "evil muslim conspiracy"
</sarcasm>


/C

[Vandervahn]

I cant help it, I have a romantic belief in the supremacy of arguments and that everyone can change their attitude in the light of those ;)

[KB]

http://i.today.*******.com/misc/genImage.aspx?uri=2006-02-05T130938Z_01_L05188385_RTRUKOP_2_PICTURE3.jpg&resize=full

21st Century citizens, meet the 12th Century citizens.

[BlackRain]

It realy is no idea to try to use logic with BlackRain.

<sarcasm>
He knows his "divinely inspired truth" and nothing will stop him from educating the world about the threat of the "evil muslim conspiracy"
</sarcasm>


/C

I use facts and back them up. (See my footnoted sources (http://editorial.*****images.com/source/search/details_pop.aspx?iid=56748624&cdi=0)).

You use opinion.

AFP and *****images states this particular Cleric was one of the protestors.

If you have a problem with their reporting, talk to them.

[Ayura]

I use fact and back them up. (See my footnoted sources).

You use opinion.

AFP and *****images states this particular Cleric was one of the protestors.

If you have a problem with their reporting, talk to them.


Salam Blackrain.

Nope. You are now in the zone of opinion since you choose to believe AFP and *****images. You are shown two sources. Which one do you choose to believe. Remember, no going back on fact.

Dilemma

Salam.

[BlackRain]

Salam Blackrain.

Nope. You are now in the zone of opinion since you choose to believe AFP and *****images. You are shown two sources. Which one do you choose to believe. Remember, no going back on fact.

Dilemma

Salam.

Now you are being silly.

Is it an opinion that crowds burned down the embassies as well since AFP and *****images documented that as well?

[Ayura]

Now you are being silly.

Is it an opinion that crowds burned down the embassies as well since AFP and *****images documented that as well?


And BBC didn't document it? So much for being Silly. Use your loaf. Hovis.

[eucalyptus]

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/

Middle of the screen where it says
• Watch: Protesters ransack Danish Consulate
The point was that they where trying to push away the crowds of people but where overwhelmed.

[Ayura]

CNN. The same group of people who broadcasted this:

http://www.thatvideosite.com/view/629.html


Salam.

[LaoSexMachine]

CNN. The same group of people who broadcasted this:

http://www.thatvideosite.com/view/629.html


Salam.

Every news agency played the race angle. EVERYONE of them

[eucalyptus]

I edited the post, so that you could see how they where trying to restrain the crowds and did not join the protesters.

[Ayura]

I edited the post, so that you could see how they where trying to restrain the crowds and did not join the protesters.


Salam. Sorry - I didn't watch the video and misinterpreted you incorrectly. I do apologise.

Does any have some understanding of 'riot psychology'? I'm sure there is an underlying root to the collective social psychology of the people here as demonstrated by the media.

[Dervish]

I saw this guy on BBC and CNN trying to push the protesters back, it wasnt just him but other clerics that were dressed just like him, because of the black colour Im guessing he is Sh'ia.
He is Sunni.

The crowd got out of control and destroyed parking cars etc...Sheikhs try to stop them.

[Vandervahn]

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/

Middle of the screen where it says
• Watch: Protesters ransack Danish Consulate
The point was that they where trying to push away the crowds of people but where overwhelmed.

Unbelievable, the rioters even threatened the firefighters and tried to block them from putting the fire out. Incredible video, although the sound engineer needs to be fired.

[ED209]

The End of Europe




By Robert J. Samuelson

Wednesday, June 15, 2005; Page A25
Europe as we know it is slowly going out of business. Since French and Dutch voters rejected the proposed constitution of the European Union, we've heard countless theories as to why: the unreality of trying to forge 25 E.U. countries into a United States of Europe; fear of ceding excessive power to Brussels, the E.U. capital; and an irrational backlash against globalization. Whatever their truth, these theories miss a larger reality: Unless Europe reverses two trends -- low birthrates and meager economic growth -- it faces a bleak future of rising domestic discontent and falling global power. Actually, that future has already arrived.
Ever since 1498, after Vasco da Gama rounded the Cape of Good Hope and opened trade to the Far East, Europe has shaped global history, for good and ill. It settled North and South America, invented modern science, led the Industrial Revolution, oversaw the slave trade, created huge colonial empires, and unleashed the world's two most destructive wars. This pivotal Europe is now vanishing -- and not merely because it's overshadowed by Asia and the United States.
It's hard to be a great power if your population is shriveling. Europe's birthrates have dropped well below the replacement rate of 2.1 children for each woman of childbearing age. For Western Europe as a whole, the rate is 1.5. It's 1.4 in Germany and 1.3 in Italy. In a century -- if these rates continue -- there won't be many Germans in Germany or Italians in Italy. Even assuming some increase in birthrates and continued immigration, Western Europe's population grows dramatically grayer, projects the U.S. Census Bureau. Now about one-sixth of the population is 65 and older. By 2030 that would be one-fourth, and by 2050 almost one-third.
No one knows how well modern economies will perform with so many elderly people, heavily dependent on government benefits (read: higher taxes). But Europe's economy is already faltering. In the 1970s annual growth for the 12 countries now using the euro averaged almost 3 percent; from 2001 to 2004 the annual average was 1.2 percent. In 1974 those countries had unemployment of 2.4 percent; in 2004 the rate was 8.9 percent.
Wherever they look, Western Europeans feel their way of life threatened. One solution to low birthrates is higher immigration. But many Europeans don't like the immigrants they have -- often Muslim from North Africa -- and don't want more. One way to revive economic growth would be to reduce social benefits, taxes and regulations. But that would imperil Europe's "social model," which supposedly blends capitalism's efficiency and socialism's compassion.
Consider some contrasts with the United States, as reported by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development. With high unemployment benefits, almost half of Western Europe's jobless have been out of work a year or more; the U.S. figure is about 12 percent. Or take early retirement. In 2003 about 60 percent of Americans ages 55 to 64 had jobs. The comparable figures for France, Italy and Germany were 37 percent, 30 percent and 39 percent. The truth is that Europeans like early retirement, high jobless benefits and long vacations.
The trouble is that so much benevolence requires a strong economy, while the sources of all this benevolence -- high taxes, stiff regulations -- weaken the economy. With aging populations, the contradictions will only thicken. Indeed, some scholarly research suggests that high old-age benefits partly explain low birthrates. With the state paying for old age, who needs children as caregivers? High taxes may also deter young couples from assuming the added costs of children.
You can raise two objections to this sort of analysis. First, other countries are also aging and face problems similar to Europe's. True. But the aging is more ****ounced in Europe and a few other nations (Japan, for instance), precisely because birthrates are so low. The U.S. birthrate, for example, is 2.1; even removing births to Hispanic Americans, it's about 1.9, reports Nicholas Eberstadt of the American Enterprise Institute. Second, Europeans could do something about their predicament. Also, true -- they could, but they're not.
A few countries (Britain, Ireland, the Netherlands) have acted, and there are differences between Eastern and Western Europe. But in general Europe is immobilized by its problems. This is the classic dilemma of democracy: Too many people benefit from the status quo to change it; but the status quo isn't sustainable. Even modest efforts in France and Germany to curb social benefits have triggered backlashes. Many Europeans -- maybe most -- live in a state of delusion. Believing things should continue as before, they see almost any change as menacing. In reality, the new E.U. constitution wasn't radical; neither adoption nor rejection would much alter everyday life. But it symbolized change and thereby became a lightning rod for many sources of discontent (over immigration in Holland, poor economic growth in France).
All this is bad for Europe -- and the United States. A weak European economy is one reason that the world economy is shaky and so dependent on American growth. Preoccupied with divisions at home, Europe is history's has-been. It isn't a strong American ally, not simply because it disagrees with some U.S. policies but also because it doesn't want to make the commitments required of a strong ally. Unwilling to address their genuine problems, Europeans become more reflexively critical of America. This gives the impression that they're active on the world stage, even as they're quietly acquiescing in their own decline.

[Kitsune]

@ED209:

Interestingly, there is not only an American prophecy of doom for Europe, but also an European one for America.

Those who adher to the later like to point out that American demographics are not as nice and sound as they seem: white Americans are dwindling away as well, 1.7 children per women. This will change the face of America distinctly. In 2050, Whites may be a minority.

And as far as the economy is concerned, those doomsayers come to the conclusion that something is badly wrong with the American economy. In short: the growth rates are phony, only a bubble inflating. The common theory is, that America nowadays lives primarily by printing dollars which do not loose value, because of the increased demand that due to the presently enlarging world trade. In other words, the USA are financed by the world, by everyone who is trading in dollars, notably Europe, East Asia and China. Or even mre to the point: Americans have money at their disposal that lacks everyhwere else. The tribute for the Empire so to speak. And without this tribute, the US economy would be finished.

This theory excellently explains the colossal and ever growing US trade deficit and the continued growth rates of the US economy despite the downright alarming rate with which it is de-industrializing and the continously weak dollar. If it should be ture then America is economically ill, and just not feeling it because it on the drip. (The worst pessimists say: terminally ill, dying. And predict a huge world-wide economic crisis in the near future...)

Now it is true that many American experts seem to see things differently. According to the advocates of the mentioned theory this is because the situation is already critical and no one wants to take the responsibility. They even assume that many of the statistics that show that America's economy is alive and kicking are massively streamlined.
In any case we should find out who is right within the next five to ten years, since the adherents of the "America is in trouble" hypothesis claim that it can't go for long anymore.

[Vandervahn]

Aah, I remember that wave of "Europe´s Armageddon" commentaries - good times, good times. It was funny how they hooked the decline of Europe onto the rejection of the constitution - as if that constitution had had any exceptional significance and impact on societies compared to other rejected issues of similar scale. Insert some Eurobashing and America Strong phrases as in the last paragraph of that article and the audience is happy.

Without a doubt is the low birthrate a major problem - but there is also no doubt that it can go up again the same way it went down. Of course Europe will end up as a 3rd world country if the development continues as it is, BUT: This trend to forsake the coming 50 years based on current numbers is not credible. I see too many woulds/shoulds/coulds - but demographics NEVER worked that way.

Personally I hold the firm belief that Europe is in a time of necessary self-reflection, determining the concept of the future, thats why there is stagnation. I also believe that we will find the correct course eventually. Of course the numbers for the USA and other parts of the world look decisively prettier than those of Europe. But the question remains whether those trends will last, given the unquestioned vulnerabilities of those flourishing economies and societies. Chinese politicians are furiously trying to slow down their economic revolution to keep it stable - without more domestic demand their whole economy can fall into a hole any time. The USA is standing at the opposite end of the global economy, being that huge consumer with an ever-growing debt and radical discrepancies in the structure of its society.

Given these extremes I do not think that Europe has a more insecure future in the long term - in fact the strong partnership in economy and politics within the EU is a garant for less severe economical tides. And that is the reason why the EU has become so powerful and the golden calf in OUR culture: In the end we are self-sufficient, not without restrictions, but we can sustain ourselves.

[Crna Legija]

21st Century citizens, meet the 12th Century citizens.

12th century citizens armed with 21st century weapons.

When (not if) the **** hits the fan, it’s going to be a humdinger of a fight.

[Kilgor]

12th century citizens armed with 21st century weapons.

When (not if) the **** hits the fan, it’s going to be a humdinger of a fight.



Thats why Iran must not get the bomb

[stuntman]

Aah, I remember that wave of "Europe´s Armageddon" commentaries - good times, good times. It was funny how they hooked the decline of Europe onto the rejection of the constitution - as if that constitution had had any exceptional significance and impact on societies compared to other rejected issues of similar scale. Insert some Eurobashing and America Strong phrases as in the last paragraph of that article and the audience is happy.

Without a doubt is the low birthrate a major problem - but there is also no doubt that it can go up again the same way it went down. Of course Europe will end up as a 3rd world country if the development continues as it is, BUT: This trend to forsake the coming 50 years based on current numbers is not credible. I see too many woulds/shoulds/coulds - but demographics NEVER worked that way.

Personally I hold the firm belief that Europe is in a time of necessary self-reflection, determining the concept of the future, thats why there is stagnation. I also believe that we will find the correct course eventually. Of course the numbers for the USA and other parts of the world look decisively prettier than those of Europe. But the question remains whether those trends will last, given the unquestioned vulnerabilities of those flourishing economies and societies. Chinese politicians are furiously trying to slow down their economic revolution to keep it stable - without more domestic demand their whole economy can fall into a hole any time. The USA is standing at the opposite end of the global economy, being that huge consumer with an ever-growing debt and radical discrepancies in the structure of its society.

Given these extremes I do not think that Europe has a more insecure future in the long term - in fact the strong partnership in economy and politics within the EU is a garant for less severe economical tides. And that is the reason why the EU has become so powerful and the golden calf in OUR culture: In the end we are self-sufficient, not without restrictions, but we can sustain ourselves.

Be that the reason or a excuse but untill Europe as a collective doesn't have projection militarily, your (optimisticly) hopefull future projections lack substance or basicly anything to stand on..

[Vandervahn]

How is the capability of the military even remotely connected to domestic demographics? How could the capability to force projection significantly improve economy?!?

I was talking about Europe being in a domestic shrink-to-health process, and not about a renewed colonialism or actively pursuing foreign interests. The military is a non-factor when the issue is to sort out the own backyard...

[remo williams]

pure and simple to me..big long term..the beginnings of global conflict where one by one nations are drawn into war...because the more we get the more we forget..those who forget hist are doomed to repeat it etc..lock and load boys and girls...

[a_very_ex_STAB]

@ED209:

Interestingly, there is not only an American prophecy of doom for Europe, but also an European one for America.

Those who adher to the later like to point out that American demographics are not as nice and sound as they seem: white Americans are dwindling away as well, 1.7 children per women. This will change the face of America distinctly. In 2050, Whites may be a minority.

And as far as the economy is concerned, those doomsayers come to the conclusion that something is badly wrong with the American economy. In short: the growth rates are phony, only a bubble inflating. The common theory is, that America nowadays lives primarily by printing dollars which do not loose value, because of the increased demand that due to the presently enlarging world trade. In other words, the USA are financed by the world, by everyone who is trading in dollars, notably Europe, East Asia and China. Or even mre to the point: Americans have money at their disposal that lacks everyhwere else. The tribute for the Empire so to speak. And without this tribute, the US economy would be finished.

This theory excellently explains the colossal and ever growing US trade deficit and the continued growth rates of the US economy despite the downright alarming rate with which it is de-industrializing and the continously weak dollar. If it should be ture then America is economically ill, and just not feeling it because it on the drip. (The worst pessimists say: terminally ill, dying. And predict a huge world-wide economic crisis in the near future...)

Now it is true that many American experts seem to see things differently. According to the advocates of the mentioned theory this is because the situation is already critical and no one wants to take the responsibility. They even assume that many of the statistics that show that America's economy is alive and kicking are massively streamlined.
In any case we should find out who is right within the next five to ten years, since the adherents of the "America is in trouble" hypothesis claim that it can't go for long anymore.
Yes. The American economy is a house of cards but as everything is so interlinked these days it will cause a hell of a mess when it goes. Interesting times ahead.

[Greek soldier]

Actually the only thing I've heard is about the end of the European Union. US and European "think tanks" do forecast that the time when E.U will be a "history" is coming... Damn, E.U was a hell of an experiment...

[a_very_ex_STAB]

Actually the only thing I've heard is about the end of the European Union. US and European "think tanks" do forecast that the time when E.U will be a "history" is coming... Damn, E.U was a hell of an experiment...

But the EU is not Europe it is just an artificial construct. If it goes it does not mean the end of Europe.