Irshad Manji-author of The Trouble with Islam Today

[Geezah]

On my way home from work last night I caught the tail end of Hannity, who had a lady by the name of Irshad Manji as a guest speaker.I was completely drawn to her words and would like to read more on her ideas.
Well she has a book out(title above) that seems to answer(or try to) those questions that go unanswered.

Here are a few quotes from her website,


My first question for my madressa teacher was, "Why can't girls lead prayer?" I graduated to asking more nuanced questions, such as, "If the Koran came to Prophet Muhammad as a message of peace, why did he command his army to kill an entire Jewish tribe?"

You can imagine that such questions irritated the hell out of my madressa teacher, who routinely put down women and trashed the Jews. He and I reached the ultimate impasse over yet another question: "Where," I asked, "is the evidence of the 'Jewish conspiracy' against Islam? You love to talk about it, but what's the proof?" That question, posed at the age of 14, got me booted out of the madressa. Permanently.

Anyway, I plan on buying her book and if anyone is interested here is her website, Muslim Refusenik (http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/)

[Solo]

Thanks for passing this over. I am intrested. I have been very interested in those very same questions lately, time to study the matter further.

[Saranof]

Most of the things she seemed to link with islam are really more cultural than religious and existed long before islam became a power factor in the region.

[Geezah]

I purchased the book on Ebay, it came to $9.49 shipped and it's new.

[alexz]

Looks like young muslims are rebeling against the old school islamist.
This people should get more support from from politicians and the media.
They are the only chance for a reform in Islam or bring the views of the
Muslims (which could be a majority) that doesn't support terrorist but
are affraid to come out against them..

[MakeWar87]

Looks like young muslims are rebeling against the old school islamist.
This people should get more support from from politicians and the media.
They are the only chance for a reform in Islam or bring the views of the
Muslims (which could be a majority) that doesn't support terrorist but
are affraid to come out against them..

Thats true in any society look at japan the teens are pushing the limits and rebeling and it scares the elders who lived in a time honor and respect same could be said about the u.s and the vietnam era.

[Solo]

Just purchased the book, ebay

EDIT:

She has posted a bunch of readers' reviews of her book on her site. More or less, they're all like this:


"one message for u manji... u are nothing but a devil a ****in devil. please I beg u... Go jump off a cliff, u will do the world a huge favor. u are totally whacko in head and ur existence is a shame to everyone. u just like to bask in ur shortlived fame in the media, supporting the zionists because u can get lots of money from those rich bastards. u dont speak for the Muslims, i read ur book and it is the biggest piece of crap ever. please do not call urself a Muslim. i hope u burn in the deepest fires of hell for leading ppl to such great falsehood. i really feel bad for ur parents, having a devil for a daughter, well not their fault you turned into one. i saw that picture of u with the ****er rushdie and for a second I saw two devils staring out at me. if u wanna sink dont take ppl with u. u target weak Muslims and drag them into hellfire with u. i cannot comprehend what must be happening in ur brain. please kill urself and burninhell u dajjals left hand." - manjiisabitch
"P.S. ur hair looks terrible with the sharp ends, like ur heart which has thorns in it."

She's got spirit

[Ayura]

Why can't girls lead prayer

Prayer has always been segreted into sexes. Men pray alone together and Women prayer alone together in seperate rooms. A man leads the men and a woman leads the women.


"If the Koran came to Prophet Muhammad as a message of peace, why did he command his army to kill an entire Jewish tribe?"

Where did she acquire such information that the Prophet (pbuh) commanded his army to kill a Jewish tribe? Where does she get her sources from?


That one section alone was enough to convince me a few factors:

1. Her teacher is extremely biased, and unknowledged.

2. She is lying.



Salam.

[Geezah]

Prayer has always been segreted into sexes. Men pray alone together and Women prayer alone together in seperate rooms. A man leads the men and a woman leads the women.



Where did she acquire such information that the Prophet (pbuh) commanded his army to kill a Jewish tribe? Where does she get her sources from?


That one section alone was enough to convince me a few factors:

1. Her teacher is extremely biased, and unknowledged.

2. She is lying.



Salam.

Listening to her on the radio she seems extremely sincere, atleast give her a chance, buy her book then past judgement?

[Javehn]

Prayer has always been segreted into sexes. Men pray alone together and Women prayer alone together in seperate rooms. A man leads the men and a woman leads the women.



Where did she acquire such information that the Prophet (pbuh) commanded his army to kill a Jewish tribe? Where does she get her sources from?


That one section alone was enough to convince me a few factors:

1. Her teacher is extremely biased, and unknowledged.

2. She is lying.



Salam.

Salaam aaleykum (and shalom aleychem , and aksaminiz heyir and so on ) .

TYK .. You are right . Your "profit" pbuh didn't massacred Jewish tribe.



He massacred three Jewish tribes . Sons of Gaynuka , Sons of Anadir , Sons of Gurayzeh (Banu Gaynuka , Banu Anadir , Banu Gurayzeh) . Jews of Medina . Your profit killed them in cold bloud .

[Geezah]

Lets try and avoid this thread turning into a flamefest.........

[Ayura]

He massacred three Jewish tribes . Sons of Gaynuka , Sons of Anadir , Sons of Gurayzeh (Banu Gaynuka , Banu Anadir , Banu Gurayzeh) . Jews of Medina . Your profit killed them in cold bloud .

Reference?


I'm sick and tired or assertions without evidence. It makes me wonder.

[Dervish]

No Ayura... he knows what he is talking about

[Dervish]

Javehn I will not turn this into flame war...

But my response is that Prophet Muhammad was a warrior prophet and he had an empire. Just like Sulyman and Dawood (David?).

War in Arabia was constant not only with the 3 Jewish tribes but Muhammed fight against his own tribe.

[Javehn]

Reference?


I'm sick and tired or assertions without evidence. It makes me wonder.

Assertions ? You confuse me with someone else .



Javehn I will not turn this into flame war...

But my response is that Prophet Muhammad was a warrior prophet and he had an empire. Just like Sulyman and Dawood (David?).

War in Arabia was constant not only with the 3 Jewish tribes but Muhammed fight against his own tribe.

La , mafish flamewar ;) . Ana la ahibak flamewar (In hebrew it's BTW : Ani lo ohev flamewar :D ) ;) .

[Dervish]

......Shalom cousin :D

[Javehn]

......Shalom

Shu , minain ente zalame ? Lubnan ?

[Ayura]

Assertions ? You confuse me with someone else/


You provide no proof to your claims. Someone of your high 'Islamic scholarly' should know that evidence is a necessity to make arguments valid.

[Javehn]

You provide no proof to your claims. Someone of your high 'Islamic scholarly' should know that evidence is a necessity to make arguments valid.

It really hearts that you don't trust me :( .
Very well . My sources are Kuran book , translation by Krachkovski , and "Ancient Islam" , Time Life books .

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/javehn/IMAG0014.jpg

For you , the source on the net :
http://www.google.co.il/search?hl=iw&q=Banu+massacre+&btnG=%D7%97%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%95%D7%A9+%D7%91%D7%92%D7%95%D7%92%D7%9C&meta=

[alexz]

Thats true in any society look at japan the teens are pushing the limits and rebeling and it scares the elders who lived in a time honor and respect same could be said about the u.s and the vietnam era.

I'd say it's a little more serious as Japanese eldes are not likely to murder
the teens.

[Ayura]

It really hearts that you don't trust me :( .
Very well . My sources are Kuran book , translation by Krachkovski , and "Ancient Islam" , Time Life books .

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/javehn/IMAG0014.jpg

For you , the source on the net :
http://www.google.co.il/search?hl=iw&q=Banu+massacre+&btnG=%D7%97%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%95%D7%A9+%D7%91%D7%92%D7%95%D7%92%D7%9C&meta=


The fact that the picture of the Qu'ran you have displayed comes with pictures is enough. You do know idolatry is forbidden in Islam right?

Every single website you have shown is just the typical extreme right-wing 'Craig Winn' style recycled rhetoric. Non of them are Islamic sources, only third party.

The "Qu'ran" doesn't even mention specifics about those wars. Thus, the Qu'ran is irrelevent unless I have missed something. Post the Surahs which explain the wars please?

I also advise you read Islamic history written by the hands of Islamic Sages if you wish to fully acknowledge it.


Salam.

[Javehn]

Ehm , you should read what I've wrote you .
The book with pictures is Time Magazine book , ancient Islam . The Quran book is second above it .

And what you mean "every single website of mine is extreme right wing stuff " ? It's just a google result for "Banu massacre" :lol: .

[Ayura]

Ehm , you should read what I've wrote you .
The book with pictures is Time Magazine book , ancient Islam . The Quran book is second above it .

And what you mean "every single website of mine is extreme right wing stuff " ? It's just a google result for "Banu massacre" :lol: .

I ment every single result from google just displays third party sources and not Islamic sources. Time magazine is still third party.

[block52]

Irshad Manji has a vested interest in moderating islam.

She is a lesbian.

Her apartment in canada has bullet-proof glass.

Now why would she need that? Islam is a peaceful an tolerant religion..........................................................


why deny it ayura? You should be proud of your profit's mass slaughter of the jews of Bani Quraiza.

[stuntman]

I read the book about a year ago, it is a great book. To be fair to what Ayura is defending most of her book is based on personal experiences and in her book she reminds readers to understand that her Iman was a vile person and she names other Muslim leaders who are good. But the other issues she reports on are spot on. She makes points that Islam at the moment is on time in regards to it(Islams) behavior. She said since Islam and Christianity are a few hundred years apart, Islam is behaving the way the Spanish Inquisition was behaving during the middle ages. Her basic point is that Islam needs to grow up, and it needs to impower women, for she makes a great point on why Islamic societies are although loaded with the greatest resources are still laging in prosperity. In her book she added that since women in western societies started getting equal rights in pay and education, the west has progressed passed other societies for this reason. Remember don't get the book because you expect some Muslim bashing but read it to gain perspective. The book really opened my eyes to alot of things. And she is very optomistic about the world and Islam coexisting. One bad thing, she tends to not capitalize words like Islam and Imans, so read her book understanding she is not very objectional. But please read her book!

[c62]

[The following was quoted from solo's quote, not solo himself]

"one message for u manji... u are nothing but a devil a ****in devil. please I beg u... Go jump off a cliff, u will do the world a huge favor. u are totally whacko in head and ur existence is a shame to everyone. u just like to bask in ur shortlived fame in the media, supporting the zionists because u can get lots of money from those rich bastards. I refuse to take anyone seriously who types "you" as "u" or "your" as "ur". Seriously, how long does it take to type the "y" and the "o"? People who do that sound like retarded 12 year old girls.... "OMG u no what B.Spears did 2day?"


Lets try and avoid this thread turning into a flamefest......... Yea right... too late.

[Ayura]

Irshad Manji has a vested interest in moderating islam.

She is a lesbian.

Her apartment in canada has bullet-proof glass.

Now why would she need that? Islam is a peaceful an tolerant religion..........................................................


why deny it ayura? You should be proud of your profit's mass slaughter of the jews of Bani Quraiza.


Thank you for your post.

Still waiting for someone to explicitly direct me to Islamic sources for references to such a controversial claim.

[Geezah]

Remember don't get the book because you expect some Muslim bashing but read it to gain perspective.

Wasn't the reason I purchased the book, after hearing on the radio it was like a breath of fresh air. She sounded very positive and did not fault Islam directly more those that preach terror.

[ed316]

Basically, all she is trying to say is that Islam needs to be brought into modern times right?

[Bob Lawbla]

Why can't women lead prayer?


Prayer has always been segreted into sexes. Men pray alone together and Women prayer alone together in seperate rooms. A man leads the men and a woman leads the women.


Why can't you answer this??? You are merely just restating the fact. The question is why?????

[Raptus_regaliter]

Why can't women lead prayer?



Why can't you answer this??? You are merely just restating the fact. The question is why?????
Paternalism, same reason why women were commanded to keep silent in church in medieval times.

[Ayura]

Why can't women lead prayer?



Why can't you answer this??? You are merely just restating the fact. The question is why?????


Salam. Thank you for your post.


The reason men and women do not mix together in the same Mosque is simple.

Nearly every Mosque, there is always kids and teenagers who like to mess around a little and have fun here and there (I happen to unfortunetly know a few who messed around far too much and got kicked out). If we mix male and females (particular the teenagers, including young adults etc) together that fun can become "fun" if you catch my drift, something which is inappropiate for such a Holy Place. The point of the Mosque is that you focus all your attention upon God and Learning. The idea is to reduce any outside thinking from praying and learning. Think of it like single *** schools in a way.


Hope this has been informative. If you are still not satisfied, I'll try to find a detailed article.

Salam.

[Bob Lawbla]

Very interesting.



The reason men and women do not mix together in the same Mosque is simple.



Is this done voluntarily??

[stuntman]

Basically, all she is trying to say is that Islam needs to be brought into modern times right?

Well yes and no. She is stating that Islam has loads of Moderates but that many moderates need to rise up and take the religion from the religious Zealots. She pointed out that Christianity was like that, until modern Democracy was founded here in the US/Europe. She believes in her heart that Democracy (Even Muslim style) can work, but the fundamentals good laws of Islam instilled and all the crazy extreme stuff must be filtered out.

[Ayura]

Very interesting.



Is this done voluntarily??


Thank you for your post.


Yes. I have still yet to meet a Muslim who wants to prayer with their opposite *** counter part. In homes and in families, it is tradition for the male to lead prayer, and the family do pray together. However, the issue is different in a Mosque. People go to Mosques to learn and pray (some go to socialise with friends but that's a different issue all together).

[One?]

Why don't catholics allow woman as priests? Irshad airy is just pissed because she is a lesbian she looks like a friggin rooster and cant find a ****. So she is getting angry at the world.

[Geezah]

Why don't catholics allow woman as priests? Irshad airy is just pissed because she is a lesbian she looks like a friggin rooster and cant find a ****. So she is getting angry at the world.

I would say you lost that round, your only rebuttle is to attack her personally?????

[One?]

I would say you lost that round, your only rebuttle is to attack her personally?????

I'm not arguing anything im just saying she does look like a rooster.

As for her questions she grew in a wahabi school so I can't realy blame her that much.

[jmatucd]

Why don't catholics allow woman as priests? Irshad airy is just pissed because she is a lesbian she looks like a friggin rooster and cant find a ****. So she is getting angry at the world.

For financial reasons as was explained to me by a former priest. If you allow women (or marriage for males and females) then they will have children and the chruch will have to pay for the children's education (college) and their upbringing. This burden will fall upon the parisheners and they no doubt will not take kindly to it especially if the child or children are not quite representative of the values they stand for... Basically the church would not be able to pay for it and there are problems with members of the church and if they will approve of the children etc.

Personally, as a catholic, I think they should allow marriage for priests and some time after (things move slowly in the church) allow women to be priests. This will solve pedophile problems somewhat I beleive. Remember that just a few decades ago masses were conducted in Latin and most of the people didn't quite know Latin well enough to understand everything they were doing. The chruch moves, but it moves slowly.

[Bob Lawbla]

Why don't catholics allow woman as priests?

Here is the short version....

Only a baptised man validly receives sacred ordination. The Lord chose men to form the college of the twelve apostles, and the apostles did the same when they chose collaborators to succeed them in their ministry. The college of bishops, with whom the priests are united in the priesthood, makes the college of twelve an ever present and ever active reality until Christ’s return. The church recognises herself to be bound by this choice made by the Lord himself. For this reason the ordination of women is not possible. (Catechism 1577 Inter insignores(1977)

From: http://www.catholicozvocations.org.au/faq/categories/Priesthood/1015727735.html