Reports say as much as 30 rpg-grenades where fired at the Norwegian base...

[Andreas]

Norwegian semi-tabloid newspaper www.vg.no (http://www.vg.no) reports as much as 30 RPG`s where fired at the Norwegian compound during the attack.

Oh, **** if this is correct the Norwegians and others had a real ****storm on their hands.
A bit more than the reported rock throwing and some AK-fire and a grenade or two.

Even the Norwegian military states on their web page www.mil.no (http://www.mil.no) "that shrapnell was flying everywhere..

Im guessing that in a few days when the after action ******* is ready and maybe published this will be confirmed as an deliberate and planned attack by a gang employed by afghan warlord General dostum as sugested in some Norwegian newspapers today....


Andreas

[Andeh]

They seriously need to move that base to somewhere else

[TuNeRsHaRk]

from mil.no


an Armed mob broke into the courtyard of the Norwegian headquarters in Meymaneh, and nearby premises. – This is a very serious situation for our forces in Meymaneh, says Defence Minister Anne-Grete Strøm-Erichsen.

The mob fired shots and threw and stones hand grenades at personnel from ISAF (International Security Assistance Force). Six Norwegian soldiers have suffered minor injuries during the attacks on their camp. Splinters of hand grenades wounded some of them.

- Our personnel in Meymaneh are armed with small arms and larger calibre weapons. They are trained to take care of themselves, says General Sverre Diesen, chief of the Norwegian Armed Forces.

32 Norwegian military personnel, and one police officer where present in the camp during the attack, along with 16 from Finland, three from Latvia and one from Iceland. ISAF sent two F-16 fighter aircraft, which fired warning shots above the armed mob. Two armed A10 planes from Operation Enduring Freedom were also dispatched to the area, to support the Norwegian lead Provincial Reconstruction Team (PRT). A British quick reaction force has arrived in the PRT camp.

- The situation is now more stable, says Diesen.

[friendofafriend]

They should have pulled the old Samuel L Jackson from Rules of Engagement, and in his words " Wasted the the Mother F%ckers "

[Argyll]

Yeah......good idea.....kill all the protestors and that'll be it all over eh?

[Chris]

for me its quite impressive that they didnt kill at least 10-20 protestors during this attack.

[friendofafriend]

Directed at Argyll:

I litte sarchasm never hurt anybody " unless you are a cartoonist "

Im not going to start a flame here, but when RPG's are being fired at you, the thought my have crossed their minds. Relax bro.....

[PeterG]

I litte sarchasm never hurt anybody " unless you are a cartoonist "

Im not going to start a flame here, but when RPG's are being fired at you, the thought my have crossed their minds. Relax bro.....

I'm not so sure. They are there as part of a 'stabilizing force', not to rack up an impressive body count. Like Argyll hinted - what would have happened if they mowed down the lot? The troops deserve praise for showing restraint and professionalism, and not forgetting why they are there. Good drills and good discipline.

[Argyll]

Thats why they have Rules of Engagements and are Proffesionals

You can only fire at IDENTIFIED targets,if the Rooftop shooters could see the RPG firers,then their in their ROE;s to do so........

There's sarcasm and stupidity situations like whats going on is a far cry from Holywood........if anything the Norwegian exercised great restraint in NOT opening fire.

[Andreas]

As mentioned, the restraint shown by the ISAF soliders on the ground is worth mentioning.
Im guessing that the ROE states that when fired upon by RPG`s returning fire is allowed. But ISAF all in all is best served by the way the Norwegians showed restraint. The repercussions of a "weapons free" response by the soldiers under attack could potencially destabilize the whole country in a big way.

Reports say the mob was largly made up by young people, and my guess is that this was a delibarate move by the people behind this. Probably hoping for a 50-100 dead Afghanis in their late teens to use as a massive pr coup to further help their goals

Just my two cents


Cheers
Andreas

[joshfox0]

RPGs can be fired and not actually mean that you should engage your target. unless those RPG present an imminant danger to your life iys quite likely that this mod was just randomly firing not with the intent to kill because they know that would bring down heavy sentences upon themselves.

[Holycrusader]

I hear that you can fire RPG indirect :) almost like mortars...

If yes, then Norwegian could have problem to actually engage the shooters...

[wiking]

Have read on vg's forum (a bunch of idiot wankers most of the people there though) that the Norwegian government implements restrictions far greater than the ROE on our troops, anyone got any input on that?


Either way, Norwegian troops have showed before, and did show again, that they can handle themselves very well in a situation like that.

They killed a chap in kosovo a couple of years ago didnt they? During a demonstration or something?

It's just sad to see that the relative peacefull interaction with the locals that Norwegian troops have, and allmost allways have had in our 60+ years of deployment around the world, is probably gone to hell now in Afghanistan or this region of the country atleast.

[EffJi]

RPGs can be fired and not actually mean that you should engage your target. unless those RPG present an imminant danger to your life iys quite likely that this mod was just randomly firing not with the intent to kill because they know that would bring down heavy sentences upon themselves.

Well, the problem with seeing someone shoot a rocket your direction is that when you know the rocket is headed your way it's too late.
You can't "casually" shoot rockets at people.
If the rocket misses you, there's a big chance it'll hit one of your friends.

[Argyll]

Yes you can shoot RPG's casually,just better not do it with anyone behind you...it takes a split second to step out of an alleyway and let of a Grenade.....but it also takes a split second from trigger press to launch as well.

[OldRecon]

Thats why they have Rules of Engagements and are Proffesionals

You can only fire at IDENTIFIED targets,if the Rooftop shooters could see the RPG firers,then their in their ROE;s to do so........

There's sarcasm and stupidity situations like whats going on is a far cry from Holywood........if anything the Norwegian exercised great restraint in NOT opening fire.
Wouldn't surprise me if some of the guys brought out their cameras and took a few snaps or two of the incident though :lol:.
As for not opening fire there were apparently 10 dead among the demonstrators, though it's claimed most of those were killed by Afghan national army/police involved in guarding the base.
As for the Norwegians at present it's only stated that they used tear gas, riot munitions and fired warning shots.

[Vandervahn]

RPGs can be fired and not actually mean that you should engage your target. unless those RPG present an imminant danger to your life iys quite likely that this mod was just randomly firing not with the intent to kill because they know that would bring down heavy sentences upon themselves.
I dont want to insult you, but thats a quite moronic point of view. Firing your AK into the air at a wedding is not a threatening act. Firing a warning shot with a pistol in the air or the ground is only a borderline non-aggressive act.

But firing an RPG even remotely into the direction of an enemy force is under no circumstances to be considered "random fire" and the gunner should and would expect an enemy reaction. Its the same as if someone would randomly toss around grenades - the person would be a threat, no matter his intent.

The pure act of engaging a more powerful force implies that you accept the risk of a heavy sentence (which could also be death), and even moreso with an RPG.

[Andreas]

Anyone have a copy of ISAF ROE?

Im pretty sure it says "Shoot anyone aiming a RPG at you" or something along those lines...


Andreas

[Kekkonen]

Finnish Metro had this article today (here provided if some of the Finns here is interested in reading it).

The headline says "THE FINNS COULDN'T EVEN USE RUBBER BULLETS", followed by an article where they say that the Finns could only fire warning shots while the Norwegians used rubber bullets and teargas. The Finnish troops in Kosovo have teargas and training to use it, unlike the 90 Finnish peacekeepers in Afghanistan, they will however get 40 mm grenade pistols, sniper rifles and other equipment now that they should have had already. Last week a Finnish patrol was fired upon in Afghanistan.

http://img310.imageshack.us/img310/8458/eerr1qo.jpg
If the text seems small it's because it's downsized in the webrowser, save the picture and view it.

[Andreas]

Quick translation anyone?

Cheers
Andreas

[ENSIGN FOREVER]

ROE controls. But having this overhead can easily dissuade the mob while providing a calming influence on the troops. Consider investing in a couple.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/ac-130-spectre-44.jpg

[anv2]

Quick translation anyone?



There isn't much information in the article and Kekkonen posted most of it already. The commander of Finnish forces in Kabul wishes to get crowd control weapons and a permission to use them, but defence ministry doesn't like the idea. This is because the Finnish troops are in Afghanistan to support the reconstruction effort and crowd control is not part of their mission.

[MichaelF]

Small arms fire is one thing. ROEs depending, you can hunker in your bunker and wait till they disperse or try to infiltrate your camp.

RPG (or grenade, mortar, or other crew-served weapon) fire -requires- you to return fire. At that point, the gloves are off. No one "plays around" by lobbing ordnance at you!

[joshfox0]

I dont want to insult you, but thats a quite moronic point of view. Firing your AK into the air at a wedding is not a threatening act. Firing a warning shot with a pistol in the air or the ground is only a borderline non-aggressive act.

But firing an RPG even remotely into the direction of an enemy force is under no circumstances to be considered "random fire" and the gunner should and would expect an enemy reaction. Its the same as if someone would randomly toss around grenades - the person would be a threat, no matter his intent.

The pure act of engaging a more powerful force implies that you accept the risk of a heavy sentence (which could also be death), and even moreso with an RPG.
Yes but we're talking about special circumstances here if theres a mod baying for blood at your compound and the RPGs which are being fired at you are coming from in or around the crowd the chance is that by opening fire on the shooter you will in turn anger the crowd more and it will end up turning into a bloodbath rather than the situation calming.

just like you said "the gunner should and would expect an enemy reaction" which he was thankfully denyed

Hey personally i would've wanted to shoot the basti firing the thing but you've got to take into consideration the repercussions

[River3]

Anyone have a copy of ISAF ROE?

Im pretty sure it says "Shoot anyone aiming a RPG at you" or something along those lines...


Andreas

I do, will try to translate the essential.

2. Self defence

a) You have a right to use necessery and proportional force, including use of autorized weapons in selfdefence.

b) You have a right to use necessery and proportional force in an armed assault which may result in danger for life or health, or in a situations where there exist a concrete treath of such an assult, to defend your self, your unit or any other allies.

3. Warning and warning shot
a) If the situation allows, shout a warning
b) If the situation allows, fire a warning shot
c) If there is no other ways to prevent the assault, use of necessery and proportional force is autorized, including use of weapons.

4. Use of weapons
a) You can use necessery force, including weapons, against any person who is attempting an deadly action, and there is no other way to prevent this.

You may for example open fire at a person who:
- Fire or point his weapon against you or any other in his vicinity.
- Are placing, throwing or prepere to throw explocives or any other dangerous items (f. ex molotov coctail) towards you or any other in his vicinity.
- With intent to drive over you or any other in his vicinity.

You may only open fire at person who steal or are attempting to steal, damaging or are attempting to damage property if:
- Loss will result in a deadly threat against you, your unit or any other personel with particularly status, and there is no other ways to prevent this.


If the situation allows you are ordered to shout a warning and fire a warning shot befor aimed fire.

Fire only aimed shots.
Don't fire more than necessary.
Avoid unnecessary damage of property.
Take all actions to avoid injuries on other persons.

This is my attempt to translate the ROE from norwegian to english. There may be some errors because I wasn't the brightest man in my english class at school. But I thinh it should be fairly accuarte.

Bye the way. From my point of wiev, the norwegian soldiers where authorized to use much more force than the did. Credits to the soldiers for handling the situatin very rofessionally.

[wiking]

I do, will try to translate the essential.

2. Self defence

a) You have a right to use necessery and proportional force, including use of autorized weapons in selfdefence.

b) You have a right to use necessery and proportional force in an armed assault which may result in danger for life or health, or in a situations where there exist a concrete treath of such an assult, to defend your self, your unit or any other allies.

3. Warning and warning shot
a) If the situation allows, shout a warning
b) If the situation allows, fire a warning shot
c) If there is no other ways to prevent the assault, use of necessery and proportional force is autorized, including use of weapons.

4. Use of weapons
a) You can use necessery force, including weapons, against any person who is attempting an deadly action, and there is no other way to prevent this.

You may for example open fire at a person who:
- Fire or point his weapon against you or any other in his vicinity.
- Are placing, throwing or prepere to throw explocives or any other dangerous items (f. ex molotov coctail) towards you or any other in his vicinity.
- With intent to drive over you or any other in his vicinity.

You may only open fire at person who steal or are attempting to steal, damaging or are attempting to damage property if:
- Loss will result in a deadly threat against you, your unit or any other personel with particularly status, and there is no other ways to prevent this.


If the situation allows you are ordered to shout a warning and fire a warning shot befor aimed fire.

Fire only aimed shots.
Don't fire more than necessary.
Avoid unnecessary damage of property.
Take all actions to avoid injuries on other persons.

This is my attempt to translate the ROE from norwegian to english. There may be some errors because I wasn't the brightest man in my english class at school. But I thinh it should be fairly accuarte.

Bye the way. From my point of wiev, the norwegian soldiers where authorized to use much more force than the did. Credits to the soldiers for handling the situatin very rofessionally.

looks good this. Not the worst english i've seen (*bragging mode* I got a 6 on my 10th grade exam *bragging mode off*p-) ). Could you post it in Norwegian to? Would like to read it myself.

[sp2c]

don't post your roe's

[River3]

don't post your roe's
Don't think our roe's are classified, atleast my ROE from Kosovo is marked with KFOR UNCLASSIFIED.
My ISAF ROE is whitout any markings, meening it's not classified.
But I see your point.
Anyway it's too much typing.

Wiking, if you give me an email, maybe I'll be able to scan it for you.

[EffJi]

Yes you can shoot RPG's casually,just better not do it with anyone behind you...it takes a split second to step out of an alleyway and let of a Grenade.....but it also takes a split second from trigger press to launch as well.

If you fire a highly explosive grenade at someone it's not casual. It's not like throwing a rock towards a group of riot police three hundred feet away. If you fire a rocket towards a human being, it's attempted murder.