Germany's Elite Soldiers

[goldman]

I will post more Pictures in few mins but in mean while enjoy these.

http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/9554/svbw019sv.jpg
http://img491.imageshack.us/img491/9014/svbw024rq.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/1086/svbw031ck.jpg
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/6692/svbw095vy.jpg
http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/3497/svbw055nb.jpg
http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/5594/svbw066kz.jpg
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3637/svbw076nw.jpg
http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/1365/svbw086lt.jpg
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/4413/svbw093ss.jpg
http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/8499/svbw106bj.jpg
http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/6759/svbw113ut.jpg
http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/8657/svbw121af.jpg

[Macs.]

Thanks alot Goldman !!!

Some look very special...

[Hyllus]

Great photos. Keep it up.

Thanks alot.

[zonk]

those are great pics, keep up the good work goldman

[goldman]

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/9092/scannen4000013im.jpg
http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/6763/scannen4000022jy.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8485/scannen4000032oh.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5192/scannen4000044gn.jpg

More to come..

[JoaMei]

Thanks alot Goldman !!!

Some look very special...

Some look airsoft.... ;)

[seventy6er]

------------------

[seventy6er]

Don't ruin this great thread!

[Macs.]

Oh, I tottaly forgot about that book !!

[towelie]

where are the Gebirgsjaeger?

[DrMom]

Man i love how they still couldn't abandon their child, and still use the MG42

[goldman]

Man i love how they still couldn't abandon their child, and still use the MG42

Why abandon it when is one of the best MGs ever made.

[-Max2-]

Great pics, goldman !

First time that i see a German soldier (KSK ?) using a H&K UMP btw... :)

[seventy6er]

Great pics, goldman !

First time that i see a German soldier (KSK ?) using a H&K UMP btw... :)

The dude is NOT KSK, just regular para...

[towelie]

what soldiers are those supposed to be? A lot of them look like feldjaeger

[seventy6er]

what soldiers are those supposed to be? A lot of them look like feldjaeger

pic 1 - 4 are Fallschirmjäger (regular paras).

pic 5 is military police

pic 6 is Fallschirmjäger Spezialzug (para special platoon)

pic 7 is light infantry (Jäger; some kind of ranger equivalent)

pic 8 is a Kampfschwimmer (equivalent of US Navy Seal)

pic 9 - 11 is military police

pic 12 is a paratroopers sniper

pic 13 is para special platoon

pic 14 is regular airforce infantry

pic 15 - 16 is military police

[HazF16]

where are the Gebirgsjaeger? Dem nigguhs iz like ultra gansta.

http://i1.tinypic.com/nmj5as.gif

[Canuck Farrier]

I like the Infantry Weapons the Germans use,they have a high tech futuristic look to them.Good stuff!Just out of curiosity can you put a bayonet on those H K rifles.?p-)

[Freibier]

You can put a bayonet on the fullsize G36.
In fact, the G36 bayonets are the AK bayonets left over from ze DDR :D
Oh and great pics goldman!

[Conga]

and the Küchenmesser 2000 :lol:

[goldman]

http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/1210/svbw190qf.jpg
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/553/svbw206ay.jpg
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/6885/svbw218mz.jpg
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/8070/svbw222uw.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/7184/svbw235nm.jpg
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/5757/svbw242ev.jpg

[towelie]

nice pics....!

[Beckett]

ya man those are some really awsome pictures. What the hell does the soldier in picture number 7 have on his stock?

[zepic]

cool pix.. keep up the good work

[towelie]

ya man those are some really awsome pictures. What the hell does the soldier in picture number 7 have on his stock?

smoke nade?

[Freibier]

Don't laugh, but it looks like a improvised (and highly impractical) cheekpiece :oops:

[Beckett]

ya thats what i thought it was but look how high it goes......

[Paracaidista]

I'm always fascinated about the german cammo. It looks like those paint drops we had when playing as a children :)

On a side note. I remember reading that some special forces took over the relatively few H&K G11 produced and still use today. Is that just a rumor?

[Freibier]

just look how high the scope is mounted
Wonder why he didn't get a low rail like in the other pictures.
I mean mounting a full power scope on the carry handle :cantbeli:

[Macs.]

There are still G11 floating around somewhere in the Bundeswehr, but I highly doubt that they get used. (Thinking of the ammo, I don't think the ammo gets produced anymore.)

[goldman]

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/2690/svbw249cl.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1385/svbw254yd.jpg
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4113/svbw265gs.jpg
http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/1584/svbw276xz.jpg
http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/9288/svbw284oc.jpg

[Haiw]

Nice stuff man. By now all of MPnet should chip in to buy you a stripper just for all of the threads you made. ;)

[wiking]

Man i love how they still couldn't abandon their child, and still use the MG42

It's not a MG42, it's an MG3. just about the same thing though, on another forum this chap who served in the German army loads of years back told me a mate of his who was an MG gunner got issued some spare parts for his MG3 with the Eagle, Swastika and Waffen amt markings :)

[ooo]

Wonder why he didn't get a low rail like in the other pictures.
ok, you´re right, it´s a little bit confusing but I think the reason is that he´s a jäger (ranger), jäger arn´t DSO and so they arn´t as good equipped as fallschirmjäger (DSO) are ...



I remember reading that some special forces took over the relatively few H&K G11 produced and still use today. Is that just a rumor?
As far as I can judge (what I know is only read, i´m not active) it isn´t just a rumor. The Kampfschwimmer (seals) used the G11 as a DMR and the KSK took it too. It´s in use as a DMR an it seems to be not to bad in this role.

there was a good picture with some ksk guys, but I reinstalled my system and can´t find it on the board.

Edit: BTW, great pics goldman, again, and again and ... ;)

[AFJROTC55]

wonderful pics

1*

[towelie]

so cant wait till I join the BW.

[Whitcomb]

Is it just me, or does it seem like Germany is one of the only countries that used small arms porduced in the home country?

[towelie]

Is it just me, or does it seem like Germany is one of the only countries that used small arms porduced in the home country?

alot of countries use weapons made by their own people.

[Irish]

Look to me like the KSK??

[Whitcomb]

alot of countries use weapons made by their own people.



I mean all the weapons weapons made almost entirely by the home country.

[Resurrection]

alot of countries use weapons made by their own people.
Belgium and Sweden to name a few. Great pics btw!

[towelie]

I mean all the weapons weapons made almost entirely by the home country.
Well some countries dont have the expertise or the capital to finance all of their small arms weapons by themselves so they have to import and invest where they can maximize gains. Germany has tons of expertise in making first class weapons; thus its easy to see why Germany continues to do this. Look at all the German weapons made during the 20th century, some of them are a break through in some way or another, either in creating a new field of weapon class or a new way to wage war.

[Nickel1106]

NICE PICS
awesome weapons in the most professional soldiers' hands!!

[FREEDOM]

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/9092/scannen4000013im.jpg
http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/6763/scannen4000022jy.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8485/scannen4000032oh.jpg
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5192/scannen4000044gn.jpg

More to come..
MP7, woo........

[FREEDOM]

http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/1210/svbw190qf.jpg
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/553/svbw206ay.jpg
http://img485.imageshack.us/img485/6885/svbw218mz.jpg
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/8070/svbw222uw.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/7184/svbw235nm.jpg
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/5757/svbw242ev.jpg
We can see old Hong Kong Special Duty Unit vest used by germany troops in picture 3 & 5. Woo........

[Vandervahn]

I'm always fascinated about the german cammo. It looks like those paint drops we had when playing as a children :)
Dont you ever insult the almighty FLECKTARN! Even if the Germans wont crucify you for it, the airsoft crew will gladly do it p-)


Is it just me, or does it seem like Germany is one of the only countries that used small arms porduced in the home country?
I´d say there are several reasons for it. The first is that with the Oberndorf crew (Mauser, HK and a few else) and Rheinmetall there is an excellent domestic technology base for all kinds of boomsticks. Many countries lack this kind of knowledge, as well as the technical equipment to truly produce innovations. Very interesting fact is that the US Army frequently tested their new weapons in Germany with german experts.

The second would be that the domestic market is large enough to sustain a large weapon industry. For example the G36 basically was a winner as soon as the army agreed to purchase the first batch of 100.000 rifles, everything that followed (other branches, LE) was a bonus.

The third would be that foreign weapon systems would be VERY frowned upon in german units. The German Army is regularly characterized as the best European land force, and german landbased defense products are a huge seller everywhere. I guess it would be impossible to justify purchasing a foreign system in significant numbers when there are equally good domestic products.

HK in particular has the benefit that many of their stuff is developed exactly to the requirements the Bundeswehr sends them. For example the whole G11 project was built upon an Army future weapon request.

[towelie]

Dont you ever insult the almighty FLECKTARN! Even if the Germans wont crucify you for it, the airsoft crew will gladly do it p-)


I´d say there are several reasons for it. The first is that with the Oberndorf crew (Mauser, HK and a few else) and Rheinmetall there is an excellent domestic technology base for all kinds of boomsticks. Many countries lack this kind of knowledge, as well as the technical equipment to truly produce innovations. Very interesting fact is that the US Army frequently tested their new weapons in Germany with german experts.

The second would be that the domestic market is large enough to sustain a large weapon industry. For example the G36 basically was a winner as soon as the army agreed to purchase the first batch of 100.000 rifles, everything that followed (other branches, LE) was a bonus.

The third would be that foreign weapon systems would be VERY frowned upon in german units. The German Army is regularly characterized as the best European land force, and german landbased defense products are a huge seller everywhere. I guess it would be impossible to justify purchasing a foreign system in significant numbers when there are equally good domestic products.

HK in particular has the benefit that many of their stuff is developed exactly to the requirements the Bundeswehr sends them. For example the whole G11 project was built upon an Army future weapon request.

where are you from vander?

[FREEDOM]

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/1584/svbw276xz.jpg

New Pattern ?

[Vandervahn]

I´m from the Internet p-)

----
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5192/scannen4000044gn.jpg

Anyone knows which Shotgun this is?


http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/1584/svbw276xz.jpg

New Pattern ?
Seems more like a ghillie suit for snipers in the mountains. It seems to be worn on top of the regular clothing (it has no markings, outer pockets or applications), and it has a long zipper on the leg.

[oregongrunt]

what soldiers are those supposed to be? A lot of them look like feldjaeger
I never have figured out what makes a unit "elite" either.

[larryzou]

nice photos is cool Germany Soldiers man.thinks.

[variable]

Wow, these are really great! Thanks very much, you made my day! :)

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/6763/scannen4000022jy.jpg

Is this actually an "In Action" pic or some exercise? Either way, some info would be great:)

Thanks in advance.

ben

[seventy6er]

None of these pics are KSK. The last pic is like already mentioned a Luftwaffe infantryman in a joint (Navy-Army-Airforce) evacop-exercise "Wilford".

[variable]

None of these pics are KSK. The last pic is like already mentioned a Luftwaffe infantryman in a joint (Navy-Army-Airforce) evacop-exercise "Wilford".

Ich bedanke mich...

[Kekkonen]

The German Army is regularly characterized as the best European land force

In homeland defence yes. Ze Germans ain't got much compared to, for example, the Brits though if moving the troops somewhere else. Can't imagine that ze heavily mechanized Germans would be very effective in the forests here up north either.

[variable]

Can't imagine that ze heavily mechanized Germans would be very effective in the forests here up north either.

Enlight me please. What in your opinion is effective in the forests? And why do you think Germany cannot provide it?

[venom]

what should they do up north ? south eastwards seems to be the new "direction"

great pix btw !

[seventy6er]

Credits should go to Sören Sünkler, the author of the book and photographer of the pics. I can assure you, this book is well worth the buy. Hundreds of brandnew pics, 200 pages.

Amazon.de Link (http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3613025922/qid=1139742448/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/028-9834587-0183715)

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/3613025922.03.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

MP.net link (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65871)

[HCV]

As far as I can judge (what I know is only read, i´m not active) it isn´t just a rumor. The Kampfschwimmer (seals) used the G11 as a DMR and the KSK took it too. It´s in use as a DMR an it seems to be not to bad in this role.

No, no, and no. The G11 was adopted -- however, it was NEVER issued to ANYBODY. Less than 100 were made, including various prototypes (see Kersten/Schmid HECKLER & KOCH, the only source that actually investigated at H&K in Oberndorf rather than to rely on rumour and hear-say).
The widely repeated claim that "1,000" had been "issued" to "German special forces" in the early 1990s is utterly false.
Also, why would anybody want to use it as a DMR??? That makes no sense at all. Stop spreading falsehoods.
The Bundeswehr DOES have a few in museums and collections, but those are not USED, and ammunition certainly wouldn't be available for actual operations.

Cheers

HANS

[seventy6er]

I think he mixed sth up... He's talking about the HK11, also known as G8 in Germany. Like you know, the G8 is a light machingun that is often seen with a scope mounted on it, I think that's why he's talkin bout the 11 being used as a DMR.

[Jäger]

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/1365/svbw086lt.jpg

the gun in this picture is not a MG 3 it's a HK23E 5.56 x 45 Nato
with a 4x24 scope.This gun is f***ing heavy 8.8kg !!!

[seventy6er]

Who said it was an MG3?

[Jäger]

Wiking:
It's not a MG42, it's an MG3. just about the same thing though, on another forum this chap who served in the German army loads of years back told me a mate of his who was an MG gunner got issued some spare parts for his MG3 with the Eagle, Swastika and Waffen amt markings

[seventy6er]

Wiking:
It's not a MG42, it's an MG3. just about the same thing though, on another forum this chap who served in the German army loads of years back told me a mate of his who was an MG gunner got issued some spare parts for his MG3 with the Eagle, Swastika and Waffen amt markings

He wasn't talkin bout the HK23, he was talkin about the MG3 in the other pics...

[ooo]

I think he mixed sth up... He's talking about the HK11, also known as G8 in Germany.
youre right 76´er, I mixed the sh** up, the G11 isn´t in use with any German forces ... sorry

[Jäger]

Oh,...
sorry

[seventy6er]

For anyone interested in the book, this is what you get:

http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/div/mil/inhalt.jpg

[Equilbrium]

Some look airsoft.... ;)

They don´t because they´re from the book "Die Spezialkräfte der Bundeswehr" (Special forces of the Bundeswehr)...

[seventy6er]

They don´t because they´re from the book "Die Spezialkräfte der Bundeswehr" (Special forces of the Bundeswehr)...

not entirely correct. The book is NOT about Special Forces. The book is about units that can be used in a special way. That's why there are tons of military-police pics in there, or Gebirgsjäger and so on. Not really units you would call SF. From my understanding, only KSK, KS and Fernspäher should be called SF.

From all of the pics posted, only ONE shows a SF-member.

[Equilbrium]

I know....I wouldn´t even call Fallschirmjäger/Airborne "special forces"....not in these days :)

Hättest mir Zeit gelassen zu antworten, dann hätt ich das richtig stellen können :D

Edit: Wo wir gerade dabei sind, was sind das für Leute, die auf Seite 84/85 abgebildet sind? B1 oder doch schon KSK?

Edit²: Here some more...

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/254/dscf12231ez.jpg

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/3726/dscf12241sj.jpg

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/5666/dscf12250ty.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/3179/dscf12262lu.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/img49/5919/dscf12273co.jpg

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/7589/dscf12289xr.jpg

[Scottie]

click to enlarge.

http://img143.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_bc4bb_svbw_29.jpg (http://img143.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=bc4bb_svbw_29.jpg)
http://img135.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_cfd31_svbw_30.jpg (http://img135.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=cfd31_svbw_30.jpg)
http://img108.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_a8c3e_svbw_31.jpg (http://img108.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=a8c3e_svbw_31.jpg)
http://img20.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_1dba5_svbw_32.jpg (http://img20.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=1dba5_svbw_32.jpg)
http://img131.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_709bc_svbw_33.jpg (http://img131.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=709bc_svbw_33.jpg)http://img134.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_64673_svbw_34.jpg (http://img134.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=64673_svbw_34.jpg)http://img103.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_33936_svbw_35.jpg (http://img103.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=33936_svbw_35.jpg)
http://img144.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_31224_svbw_36.jpg (http://img144.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=31224_svbw_36.jpg)http://img108.imagevenue.com/loc24/th_5aa32_svbw_37.jpg (http://img108.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=5aa32_svbw_37.jpg)

[Gringo]

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/6759/svbw113ut.jpg

Is that a G36C buttstock on that rifle?

[baker]

Interesting that the FJ seems to have the same equipment as the KSK on the pics. I would have mixed them up. But no KSK pics at all then or weren't the scanned yet? Any neew "in action" pics of them.

nervertheless, thx for scanning woot

[Equilbrium]

1 and 2nd pic, I posted above, are KSK guys

[Scottie]

scroll up and find my post, theyre scanned from the same book.

[Ericsson]

does are the best pictures I have seen of this site in a long time
maybe the best Ever..
thanks man !!!

[Vintendo]

Good job Goldman. Thanx for keeping MP.NET alive.

[BMF_EOD]

These guys are a bunch of fags.

I am just kidding- Awesome Pics from the guys who wrote the book on modern CT ops. Pretty impressive seeing them work in so many environments when you think about how small their overall unit size is.

What do you recon this guys is wearing for night vision? Kind of looks like a PVS-21 but he also looks like he has on more than a balaclava?
http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/6763/scannen4000022jy.jpg

[seventy6er]

These guys are a bunch of fags.

I am just kidding- Awesome Pics from the guys who wrote the book on modern CT ops. Pretty impressive seeing them work in so many environments when you think about how small their overall unit size is.


Who told you sth about unit size? What unit do you think "they" are? The guys pictured are from many different units, most of them are regular units like Gebirgsjäger (mountain-troops), Fallschirmjäger (paras), Feldjäger (military police), Jäger (light infantry). The guy you're talking about for example is regular airforce infantry.

Bte: the NVGs are Lucie NVGs which are part of "Infanterist der Zukunft"-program (future infantryman program) of the German Armed Forces.

[goldman]

Credit should go to Sören Sünkler as the photographer, and unknown german user provided me with the pics. Thank you. Peace out.

[He219]

Nice pix, thanks Goldie!
:)

[Blackburn]

Sure that this guy is just a AF-Soldier?

Lufthupe + Marine? Ah...?

[seventy6er]

Btw: the author of the book states, that most of the soldiers decided to use balaclavas (ski-masks) cause of PERSEC-reasons and NOT cause they wanted to look bad-ass or cool.

This guys here went to school with me and lived right next door to me til I was 23 or sth. I seem him 3 or 4 times a year, cause he's doing bodyguard duties for 2 discotheques here in my hometown.

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/6759/svbw113ut.jpg

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8485/scannen4000032oh.jpg

[Kekkonen]

What do you recon this guys is wearing for night vision? Kind of looks like a PVS-21 but he also looks like he has on more than a balaclava?
http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/6763/scannen4000022jy.jpg

Looks a little like Norwegian Simrad GN-1. If that is so, they are quite OK although there are better out there.

http://www.simrad-optronics.com/

[seventy6er]

Sure that this guy is just a AF-Soldier?

Lufthupe + Marine? Ah...?

Yes, it's an joint evac-op, like I said before.

[Kamakazi]

I never quite relized how big the G36 actually was..thing looks like a cannon lol.

[siberian tiger]

Why does the german air force (luftwaffe) have infantry?

[towelie]

To protect airbases probably. The US airforce also has ground infantry.

[siberian tiger]

To protect airbases probably. The US airforce also has ground infantry.

I now that, they are call Security Forces, in the Portuguese Air Force it is Air Police but it is the same thing only the name is diferent their job is the same, defende Air Bases.
But because some one said Infantry i thought it was Luftwaffe CSAR unit.

[Jester]

What do you recon this guys is wearing for night vision? Kind of looks like a PVS-21 but he also looks like he has on more than a balaclava?
It´s the now standard german armed forces NVG LUCIE from Thales with the Face mount.

Jester

[He219]

It´s the now standard german armed forces NVG LUCIE from Thales with the Face mount.

Jester
What's the name of this one, Jester?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/more/14f551c6.jpg

[Kekkonen]

What's the name of this one, Jester?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/militaryphotosnet/more/14f551c6.jpg

I still put my money on what I said earlier.

http://www.soldf.com/images/s_gn1_4.jpg

[He219]

^ That's it, Kekkonen.
What's it called?
:)

[Kekkonen]

The company seems to call them GN only, http://www.simrad-optronics.no/templates/Simrad/ProductSheet.aspx?id=1473


The Simrad GN Night Vision Goggles are the smallest and lightest goggles ever produced. Their unique design results in extremely lightweight goggles making them comfortable and easy to use, but providing high performance night vision capability.

They are called GN-1 in Sweden, although that could be a Swedish military designation. The design is quite old already but it's of course the 18 mm image intensifier tubes that are important, and these becomes better and better. The ones I tested (called GN-1C) was of generation "2++" and was... well quite okay. The gen 3 should be quite okay as well. But as anyone that has used NVGs knows they are not those pieces of super equipment as they are in games. Especially not up north during the winter.

I used mainly French NVGs that were better... Clara... something.

[toni-sf]

aren't they called luci or something like that? At least the Austrians call it that way.. and this seems to be the same device

[seventy6er]

aren't they called luci or something like that? At least the Austrians call it that way.. and this seems to be the same device

Wer lesen kann ist klar im Vorteil...

That has been posted twice on this page alone...

[Freibier]

http://212.125.67.116/dos/products/land/details/lucie.shtml

[goldman]

http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/9976/svbw381sv.jpg
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/9602/svbw397cn.jpg
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/8305/svbw400su.jpg
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/4092/svbw413fe.jpg
http://img499.imageshack.us/img499/1865/svbw428it.jpg

[wiking]

Second to last picture, his nametag on the back says "Steiner".

Anyone else getting a "Cross of Iron" Flashback when they read that?

[Beckett]

never heard of it.....

[Johnny_H02]

Second to last picture, his nametag on the back says "Steiner".

Anyone else getting a "Cross of Iron" Flashback when they read that?

OMG its James Coburn re-incarnated!

[Conga]

Second to last picture, his nametag on the back says "Steiner".

Anyone else getting a "Cross of Iron" Flashback when they read that?

Steiner is a very common German name ;)

[towelie]

what was the name of the book he got the pics from?

[AirCommando]

It´s from Sünkler ´s "Spezialverbände der Bundeswehr" about Special Operation Forces and Special Operation Capable Units of the German Federal Army.

Buy it here: http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3613025922/qid%3D1139820139/302-5546002-5823209

If anybody need help to identfy weapons, units or whatever, I can support.

[AirCommando]

That is the cover with German Boarding Teams in Operation Enduring Freedom on the Horn of Afrika on a German Fregate.


Credits should go to Sören Sünkler, the author of the book and photographer of the pics. I can assure you, this book is well worth the buy. Hundreds of brandnew pics, 200 pages.

Amazon.de Link (http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3613025922/qid=1139742448/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/028-9834587-0183715)

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/3613025922.03.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

MP.net link (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=65871)

[Scyth]

@German members. Do you have any figures concerning the number of Germans of Turkish descent enrolled in the Bundeswehr? I remember seeing quite a lot of them in Kosovo.

[AirCommando]

There´re few, very few. Mostly they´re not enlistet because they have two nationalities and they prefer to serve in the turkish army for some week and with a payment to go home and the story finsh here. Nobody cares about them after it. Mostly in the Federal German Army, if they´re there, they´re NCO´s like the badass MP guy with the G36kv in desert camo pattern posted before.

[seventy6er]

Mostly in the Federal German Army, if they´re there, they´re NCO´s like the badass MP guy with the G36kv in desert camo pattern posted before.

Hehe, he's friend of mine. But I gotta add that he is NO muslim, he is christian.

IIRC, there were quite a lot of soldiers of Turkish origin in the units I served.

[Conga]

I my unit there were some Russians but no Turks.

[Stovepipe]

I my unit there were some Russians but no Turks.

Yes, i get to know many Poles and Russians during my Bundeswehr time...

[towelie]

Yes, i get to know many Poles and Russians during my Bundeswehr time...

were they born in russia/poland or where they born in Germany?

[eindhoven]

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/5757/svbw242ev.jpg

Little did he know I strapped a Claymore to the back of that doorknob as my present to his team. Concussion + heat = detonation.

[Esszett]

were they born in russia/poland or where they born in Germany?

During my time in the Bundeswehr I've also met a lot of guys from Poland and Russia but only one who came from Turkey (and he was a Christian too).

Since the Russian-Germans (and many Poles) came to Germany after the fall of the Iron Curtain all of the ones who are able to serve now were born in the Soviet-Union (or Poland). ;-)

[Freibier]

Hiwis, like in ze good old days ;)

[towelie]

how did they become german citizens? Dont you have to be born of a German parent or is it that you have to prove you have german blood in your family?

[Esszett]

how did they become german citizens? Dont you have to be born of a German parent or is it that you have to prove you have german blood in your family?

AFAIK did they get German citizenship right away if they could prove to be of German descent.

I am not sure if it is still possible that easily or if it is possible for people from all around the world. I think there have been some special regulations concerning "Russian-Germans" (or people of German descent from the former Eastern Block).

[siberian tiger]

Little did he know I strapped a Claymore to the back of that doorknob as my present to his team. Concussion + heat = detonation.

You are beeing bad lol but this troop could at least tried do open the door normally instead of destroing a perfectely good door :)

[towelie]

AFAIK did they get German citizenship right away if they could prove to be of German descent.

I am not sure if it is still possible that easily or if it is possible for people from all around the world. I think there have been some special regulations concerning "Russian-Germans" (or people of German descent from the former Eastern Block).
Okay so lets say I hadnt been born in Germany or my parents/grandparents werent born in Germany but my Great-Grand father was German by birth and I had proof of this and I went to Germany to live because of my job and I would be there for 5+ years, could I still apply for German citizenship?

Like my dad holds an Italian passport, he wasnt born there but my grandmothers parents were italian and because of that he was able to get italian citizenship.

[AirCommando]

It´s defintely not a "blood" thing or any racial question. They´re called "Volksdeutsche" or "Spätaussiedler". They´re relatives from german settlers from the centuries who lived in eastern europe as farmers or merchants for much years. After the "Red wave" in 1945, they´re cut from the rest of Germany and they get asimiliated. Also some small Wehrmacht units were cut and surrounded in deep enemy territory and never returned to Germany. After the fall of the wall in the late 80ies, they returned in thousands to Germany with special laws and permits to be german citizens. The roblem is, they don´t speak german anymore, they don´t look like germans and they don´t have any habitude from german culture. They´re like all the other russians, rumanians and whatever. What do with this people? A lot of them are fine persons and I like them, but a lot are also horrible. I´m sorry to say that, but this are the problems. Anyway they´re better integrated in the last 10 years in the german society than all the other millions of muslim guestworkers from "Turkiey" in the last 50 years.

[Esszett]

Okay so lets say I hadnt been born in Germany or my parents/grandparents werent born in Germany but my Great-Grand father was German by birth and I had proof of this and I went to Germany to live because of my job and I would be there for 5+ years, could I still apply for German citizenship?

Like my dad holds an Italian passport, he wasnt born there but my grandmothers parents were italian and because of that he was able to get italian citizenship.
I don't know, like I said, I think there have been special regulations concerning people from Russia and the former Eastern Block because it was argumented that they didn't have a chance to "come back" until the Iron Courtain fell.

Don't know how regulations are concerning people from the USA.
Easiest (and most reliable) way to find out would be to call/ write a mail to the German ambassy in the US and ask them. They should know.

[towelie]

So if your not born in Germany how do you become a citizen? Just normal application?

[AirCommando]

but this troop could at least tried do open the door normally instead of destroing a perfectely good door :)
It´s suposed to be closed!?Anyway they have some reserve doors at the "Killing House" facility. But just to know, German Military Police SWAT teams open ALL doors in this way.

[siberian tiger]

It´s suposed to be closed!?Anyway they have some reserve doors at the "Killing House" facility. But just to know, German Military Police SWAT teams open ALL doors in this way.

It`s nothing to do with what we were talking but i thought funny your Danish flag saying "Buy Danish" it kind looks like Denmark is going to have a trade embargo from the Arabes, kind of US embargo on Cuba. Their loss lol

[wiking]

It´s suposed to be closed!?Anyway they have some reserve doors at the "Killing House" facility. But just to know, German Military Police SWAT teams open ALL doors in this way.

rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

*BOOOM* "Hello honey, I'm home! Dinner ready soon?"

[eindhoven]

It´s suposed to be closed!?Anyway they have some reserve doors at the "Killing House" facility. But just to know, German Military Police SWAT teams open ALL doors in this way.

Tactics can always be developed against these so called 'elite'. Hostages on the other side of that door would be toast because that is the first place to stack them so that any entry team kills them and themselves in the process and has no clear shot.

[Vandervahn]

Tactics can always be developed against these so called 'elite'. ...

Tactics can be developed against anything, and no method of entry is failsafe. Still the chances to encounter enemies with special training/knowledge in unconventional tactics is extremely low, and even moreso if we are talking about a generic criminal hostage situation.

And when you are at the point to stop the talk and do the walk (when negotiations have failed) you ALWAYS expect that not everyone comes out unharmed.

[Vandervahn]

So if your not born in Germany how do you become a citizen? Just normal application?
There are different regulations.
1. The Basic Law says: "Germans" are all people with a german citizenship (obviously) wherever they are; "Germans" are also people who were of german nationality (and their descendants) and settled within the german borders of 1937. If they can prove their descendancy they are considered Germans without obligations, even if they dont speak a word of German and have a non-german citizenship (but they have to give up their current citizenship to become german citizens). Also germans are those people whose german citizenship was revoked in the Nazi era and lived in Germany after the war.

2. You have a right to german citizenship if you legitly have lived in Germany for 8 years without a criminal record or use of the social security. A "legit" stay in this sense is not every kind of allowed stay in Germany, for example people granted asylum in Germany would not be staying legitly in the sense of this law. (Children born by a parent that had such a legit stay in Germany for 8 years straight are awarded dual citizenship; they have to decide pro one nationality until they are 23)

3. Usually you are awarded german citizenship if you are willing to give up your current citizenship and: are married to (or have a recognized partnership) with a legit German; and/or have a recognized responsibility for a person (child, elderly, handicapped etc.) of german citizenship.

4. You can get german citizenship as foreigner in Germany with a secure social situation (job/housing/relatives in Germany) and no reason to be expelled (that would be the "normal application" you spoke of); former german citizens and their direct descendants without any reason to be expelled; foreigners in a foreign country that have a "distinct connection to Germany" (rather fuzzy wording, but this would be the law basis for all non-germans of german ancestry that do not fall under "Volksdeutsch" ruling of Nr.1 - for example USA citizens with German ancestry).

There are also several exceptions and amendments to that, for example its easier for EU-citizens to get german citizenships. But these are too much and diverse to explain (or have in your head) ;)

[AirCommando]

Tactics can always be developed against these so called 'elite'. Hostages on the other side of that door would be toast because that is the first place to stack them so that any entry team kills them and themselves in the process and has no clear shot.

Before this teams do a forced entry, EOD dogs snifs at the door and also specialist use detection equipment (explosive, heart-beat and mini cameras). A second team also do an assault with flash-bangs and tear-gas. Don´t forget the snipers. In 80% of all assaults and forced entries, nobody of the hostages or something like that are hurt.
Anyway isn´t allways a hostage situation. The main case for German MP SWAT teams are to arrest low-profile war criminals and other criminals on the Balkans. They have done more than 300 arrests in the last years without any problem. Only a KSK SF team was blew up by a handgranade from the target person in Bosnia a cup of years ago.

[sayaret267]

These were Germany's elite soldiers :):
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/928/montecasino6wo.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/8251/panzeraces2tp.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/147/easternfront6ei.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[flanker7]

Nice PS on that last one :-)

[Conga]

a short documentary about the KSK (in German). Nothing new, but still kinda cool ;)

http://s6.simpleupload.de/fc28951a4/Ksk.part1.rar.html
http://s6.simpleupload.de/f0ab1541d/Ksk.part2.rar.html

[Vandervahn]

Whats the password for the archives?

[Conga]

doku.dl.am

[DrMom]

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/147/easternfront6ei.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

PS? i heard thats where lucas got the idea from

[Jester]

What's the name of this one, Jester?

In my amory they are listed as "Mask, Face, Night". As far as I know, they are from Simrad and where part of a test phase. Anyway we don´t use them any more but just have some of them which so far weren´t requested to send back to a depot.

Jester

[variable]

In my amory they are listed as "Mask, Face, Night". As far as I know, they are from Simrad and where part of a test phase. Anyway we don´t use them any more but just have some of them which so far weren´t requested to send back to a depot.

Jester


Do you have a number on how many LUCIE goggles are issued? Does every soldier on a mission have one?

ben

[fantassin]

These goggles are the French made Lucie, called the OB70 in the French army where they've entered service in the late 90s. They were initially designed by the Angénieux optical company and then mass produced by Thalès.

In the French infantry, the scale of issue is one per rifleman.

It's explained there:

http://www.angenieux.com/pages/index_frame.php?page=301.php

and there

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/idz/

[variable]

These goggles are the French made Lucie, called the OB70 in the French army where they've entered service in the late 90s. They were initially designed by the Angénieux optical company and then mass produced by Thalès.

In the French infantry, the scale of issue is one per rifleman.

It's explained there:

http://www.angenieux.com/pages/index_frame.php?page=301.php

and there

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/idz/

Thank you, mate. Actually I was referring to the Germans...but it's good to know the French are so well equipped as well :D I doubt every German rifleman got one...

ben

[fantassin]

When you look at a regular army, that is a small one without conscripts, it does not make a lot of riflemen...

In France, that's probably about 12-15,000 riflemen, max....I mean real shooters, not crew-served weapons, tanks etc.

[Ericsson]

the Brandenberg commandos
of the Abwehr where Germany S.F
in WW2 not the green devils

[Anthony91]

There are different regulations.
1. The Basic Law says: "Germans" are all people with a german citizenship (obviously) wherever they are; "Germans" are also people who were of german nationality (and their descendants) and settled within the german borders of 1937. If they can prove their descendancy they are considered Germans without obligations, even if they dont speak a word of German and have a non-german citizenship (but they have to give up their current citizenship to become german citizens). Also germans are those people whose german citizenship was revoked in the Nazi era and lived in Germany after the war.

2. You have a right to german citizenship if you legitly have lived in Germany for 8 years without a criminal record or use of the social security. A "legit" stay in this sense is not every kind of allowed stay in Germany, for example people granted asylum in Germany would not be staying legitly in the sense of this law. (Children born by a parent that had such a legit stay in Germany for 8 years straight are awarded dual citizenship; they have to decide pro one nationality until they are 23)

3. Usually you are awarded german citizenship if you are willing to give up your current citizenship and: are married to (or have a recognized partnership) with a legit German; and/or have a recognized responsibility for a person (child, elderly, handicapped etc.) of german citizenship.

4. You can get german citizenship as foreigner in Germany with a secure social situation (job/housing/relatives in Germany) and no reason to be expelled (that would be the "normal application" you spoke of); former german citizens and their direct descendants without any reason to be expelled; foreigners in a foreign country that have a "distinct connection to Germany" (rather fuzzy wording, but this would be the law basis for all non-germans of german ancestry that do not fall under "Volksdeutsch" ruling of Nr.1 - for example USA citizens with German ancestry).

There are also several exceptions and amendments to that, for example its easier for EU-citizens to get german citizenships. But these are too much and diverse to explain (or have in your head) ;)

Sweet that means I can join the German Army. Where the hell is my G36 and my Flecktarn

[variable]

When you look at a regular army, that is a small one without conscripts, it does not make a lot of riflemen...

In France, that's probably about 12-15,000 riflemen, max....I mean real shooters, not crew-served weapons, tanks etc.

Ah, I see. Do the French have a military service or a regular army? In case of the first alternative, how long is the service time?

Thanks in advance.

Ben

[Jester]

Do you have a number on how many LUCIE goggles are issued? Does every soldier on a mission have one?
I don´t know the total number in the whole Bundeswehr. But in my Bn nearly every Soldiert got one. At least every soldier on a mission. In my co everybody got one.

Jester

[Vandervahn]

Sweet that means I can join the German Army. Where the hell is my G36 and my Flecktarn

they are kept in the back of german liquor stores, you can pick them up there... oh wait, Liquor is only allowed at 18 years or older, so no Jägermeister and no G36 for you .... p-)

[fantassin]

Ah, I see. Do the French have a military service or a regular army? In case of the first alternative, how long is the service time?

Thanks in advance.

Ben

France has had an all regular army for over 5 years now.

[Ericsson]

I really thinkv!! the GSG-9 should be part of the DSO
it's shameful that a unit whit that much
experience and know how can not operate outside Germany's borders
I know they did once but that was an exception........
they should be like the GIGN they can operate anywhere in the world...
The GSG-9 can go airborne, they can operate in maritime environment or in mountainous
region.. it's ridiculous to restrained them inside Germany borders
it's a waste of natural resources !!!!,,,,,,,,,,

[Resurrection]

How old are you Ericsson? Just wondering.

[kk111]

I really thinkv!! the GSG-9 should be part of the DSO
it's shameful that a unit whit that much
experience and know how can not operate outside Germany's borders
I know they did once but that was an exception........
they should be like the GIGN they can operate anywhere in the world...
The GSG-9 can go airborne, they can operate in maritime environment or in mountainous
region.. it's ridiculous to restrained them inside Germany borders
it's a waste of natural resources !!!!,,,,,,,,,,

:cantbeli:

[BMF_EOD]

Little did he know I strapped a Claymore to the back of that doorknob as my present to his team. Concussion + heat = detonation.


You're wrong on this. You can shoot a claymore with a .50 cal sniper rifle and it will not go off. It's filled with C-4 and very insensitive to heat, shock, friction- and whatever concussion a 12 gauge round makes. Even Brit PE4 or Russian Semtex share simular characteristics- that is why they are selected as military explosives.

[AirCommando]

I really thinkv!! the GSG-9 should be part of the DSO
it's shameful that a unit whit that much
experience and know how can not operate outside Germany's borders
Maybe because the GSG-9 is a strictly internal police unit not trained to fight for example in Afghanistan? GIGN is paramilitary like italian Carabinieri. They have all also a basic military training. GSG-9 members are trained to fight in non-hostile urban areas. Only the target is hostile. But GSG-9 members train KSK members in CQB, HRT and all similar stuff. KSK do the job in Kosovo, Afghanistan and Bosnia. Kampfschwimmer do it in OEF/HoA. And they do it very well.
Also GSG-9 is full with internal anti-crime missions at home.There´s defintely no time for hanging around in A-Stan. But some GSG-9 members operate in Kosovo, Bosnia and A-Stan as Close Protection Team for political VIP personnel. Also the two Germans killed in an ambush in Iraq was GSG-9 memebers.
RIP

[Ericsson]

thanks air commando for trying to clarify things
by i find it hard to believe that a unit that is second to none
and trains in assaulting oil rigs. and can go airborne (high altitude or low altitude)
it can operate in any environment. they have divers that train whit the Navy combat divers for **** sake
I,m sure the SEK don,t have diversify training like that
anyway it was just a taught...

[AirCommando]

it can operate in any environment.
That´s it. They CAN´t operate in military operations because they´re NOT trained in military situations. It´s a classic police force. They don´t have any CAS, DIARTY, SOP´s or something else. This guys are trained to rescue hostages in airplanes or kick as at hardcore criminals in the redlight district but they are not trained to kick Djihaddies in Kabul.
I hope it helps.

[Vandervahn]

Ericsson, they CAN operate in any environment, but they CANT perform every task required for a military unit. Being a soldier takes more than knowing how to shoot or skydive.

With all the similarities between proto-military police SF units like the GSG9 and military SF units there is one big distinction that sets them apart: Police SF are optimized for "microtactical" operations - they go in, they come out (or not), the mission is over. They are not capable of any sort of sustained mission or missions that require operational flexibility, as well as not trained for interaction with other military branches (let´s say correctly calling in airstrikes). Frankly said, the GSG9 would most probably suck in any mission that would require them to go beyond their usual and predefined mission profile and -focus (compared to a military SO group).

The reason they cross-train with other military SF groups is because they have to be capable of several common elements of their respective missions, that doesnt mean that they would have the same overall capabilities in the end. So maybe they train hostage rescue together with KSK units (or rather teach them), but still they wouldnt be able to do forward observation tasks as KSK can.

And GSG9 can ALWAYS be used abroad if needed (in their specific role!), but the host country has to allow it.

[Conga]

It's not so much about training or equipment but jurisdiction. BGS/BPol officers don't have combatant status anymore (since 1994).

[Ericsson]

thank!! guys for trying to give me some
elucidation on this subject


But they should trained for interaction with other military branches..that should be mandatory..

In south Africa the guys that saw then train where
dumbfounded by there work ethic and professionalism and i could go on...
in south Africa the military and police is Hard Core

[Apathy]

Goldman has been unbanned. :)

[Ericsson]

whit the Oerlikon LLM 01
----------------------------

http://www.defensereview.com/stories/adt/cammoLLM01.jpg (http://www.defensereview.com/stories/adt/cammoLLM01.jpg)repost pictures I know !!














http://www.defensereview.com/stories/adt/CloseLLM01.jpg (http://www.defensereview.com/stories/adt/CloseLLM01.jpg)




















http://www.defensereview.com/stories/adt/desertGL.jpg (http://www.defensereview.com/stories/adt/desertGL.jpg)



















http://www.defensereview.com/stories/adt/sf3.jpg (http://www.defensereview.com/stories/adt/sf3.jpg)

http://www.defensereview.com/stories/adt/SF1.jpg (http://www.defensereview.com/stories/adt/SF1.jpg)

[nickless]

whit the Oerlikon LLM 01
----------------------------

http://www.defensereview.com/stories/adt/sf3.jpg

http://www.defensereview.com/stories/adt/SF1.jpg

Where are the last two pictures from?

The BDU looks like an Arktis smock in 3 color desert, so the soldier might be dutch, right?

[Zerodivider]

From here ;) : http://www.defensereview.com/article837.html

[AirCommando]

My absolute favorite!

[Abram]

The counterterroristunit of Germany is the GSG-7, or am I wrong!?

[wiking]

The counterterroristunit of Germany is the GSG-7, or am I wrong!?

GSG-9, only two figures off p-)

[cowboypimp]

for some reason i think their HK's are ugly as hell

[Vandervahn]

for some reason i think their HK's are ugly as hell

You are free to think that, but as long as the (pretty) PKM in your avatar is bastardized with that phallic Russian nightsight your credibility on looks isnt the greatest ;)

[cowboypimp]

yea ok... i chose that avatar cause of the soldier wearing the cowboy hat dumbsh-it. but u can have your opinion too.

[McLane]

I really love this thread, so many new cool pics from our lovley ;) KSK! Please keep em more coming!

[seventy6er]

I really love this thread, so many new cool pics from our lovley ;) KSK! Please keep em more coming!

McLane, there are no new KSk pics. Those dudes are Feldjäger, Fallschirmjäger and so on.

[Fox]

Those are the coolest pics:) :) uniformes after i lived there for four years:)

[McLane]

McLane, there are no new KSk pics. Those dudes are Feldjäger, Fallschirmjäger and so on.


Oh yeah, sorry - I was to lazy to count all the Names. KSK was easier for me ;)

I think I should buy this nice book... its really good looking. But the money... argh x.x

[I_hate_posers]

I haven't checked this sight in over a month, good pics by the way. I'm over here in Khandahar and the boys and myself have quite a few pics to share. We'll try to post them soon, cheers!

[Resurrection]

I haven't checked this sight in over a month, good pics by the way. I'm over here in Khandahar and the boys and myself have quite a few pics to share. We'll try to post them soon, cheers!

Great, looking forward to them! :D

[AirCommando]

I think I should buy this nice book... its really good looking. But the money... argh x.x

Buy it here and support the author (they ship everywhere):
http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3613025922/302-5546002-5823209

[Abram]

I think those H&K are very good!
especially the "G36"http://perso.wanadoo.fr/sat.airsoft/images/Armes%20et%20photos%20team/David/G36.jpg

[seventy6er]

Nice airsoft.

[Fox]

WOW:) I would love to have that:) :)

[Atlantic Friend]

Is it just me, or does it seem like Germany is one of the only countries that used small arms porduced in the home country?

Unless you mean "one of the only countries that ONLY use small arms produced in the home country", there are a lot of examples of armies fielding what their small arms industry produce.

Most French troops field a French assault rifle, a French automatic pistol, French machine-guns. Same goes for the British or Belgians IIRC, and of course it goes for the Russians.

[twominds]

Airsoft or not, abram that looks a whole lot like the norwegian KV version of the g36.. I really prefer that lowered carry handle with the rails to the integrated optics of the standard g36..

[Macs.]

It doesn't look like the KV at all, its just a standard G36c.

[seventy6er]

This is a pic of the author, Sören Sünkler.

Maybe he sees this thread and allows me to show his face? p-)

http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/soeren_suenkler_svdbw.jpg

[Macs.]

Seventy6er likes guns.

[AirCommando]

It would be nice if we can discuss only about the book, the images, the weapons inside the book and not about the fat, air-soft looking, hardcore posing author. Thanks.

[Valeriy1]

Why is the soldier (to the right) wearing two vest armor's?

[Macs.]

It would be nice if we can discuss only about the book, the images, the weapons inside the book and not about the fat, air-soft looking, hardcore posing author. Thanks.

rofl rofl rofl

...

[megusen]

I cant see two armor vests!
its the standard german vest, that nearly everyone gets on a mission.
Correct me if I'm wrong

[Vandervahn]

I cant see two armor vests!
its the standard german vest, that nearly everyone gets on a mission.
Correct me if I'm wrong

No its not the standard vest, it is the IdZ vest (german Future Soldier vest) of which only a couple of thousand have been purchased yet. Only the Paratroopers, Gebirgsjäger (mountain troops) and regular Jäger (light infantry) are considered to be "Infantry".

But yes, they are issued mostly to those on mission in the ´Stan, and the person in the picture only wears one ballistic vest.

[megusen]

Are you sure bout that? I friend of mine was in Astan, and on the pics he showed me, they all wore those kind of vests. And they were not Fallschirmjaeger or Gebirgsjaeger. Mostly they were from a Panzerbatallion(?Tank batallion?)

[Vandervahn]

Thats because they perform "infantry duties" over there, afaik there are no german tanks in Afghanistan.

[variable]

Thats because they perform "infantry duties" over there, afaik there are no german tanks in Afghanistan.

Define tank.

A tank with wheels is no tank in common sense?

ben

[AirCommando]

German tankers in common sense drive only Leopards. They´re not in A-Stan (why not?). GECON ISAF have only WAPC FUCHS and small tracked airborne vehicles WIESEL there. This last is not a real tank, basically it´s a small tracked armored airborne weapon platform. Nothing more. But very useful. It runs like hell. With TOW AT or 20 mm MK.
Having ONLY 11 infantry battalions in the Federal German Army, and all are very busy with bull*censored**censored**censored**censored*, tankers and soldiers from the artillery branch left their vehicles and guns at home and are "graduated" to infantry units for patrolling and force protection in the ´Stan, in Kosovo, Bosnia and Kroatia. It really makes no sense.

[ClydeFrog]

Are you sure bout that? I friend of mine was in Astan, and on the pics he showed me, they all wore those kind of vests. And they were not Fallschirmjaeger or Gebirgsjaeger. Mostly they were from a Panzerbatallion(?Tank batallion?)
The perverted thing is they can be both in a Panzerdivision (10.) and at the same time be Gebirgsjaeger...

I know it's not what you meant but i felt like ranting about that again... stupid Scharping.

[variable]

German tankers in common sense drive only Leopards. They´re not in A-Stan (why not?)


Because Germany is there on peacekeeping duty. What would they need Leos for? And our sealift capabilities suck.

ben

[Sgt. VeNom]

Why is the soldier (to the right) wearing two vest armor's?

German 'Infantrist der Zukunft' (IdZ) future infantryman program vest. This is an 'over' vest which is designed to be worn over a body armour vest, although it can also be worn without a body armour vest. The vest consists of a double layer of heavy duty nylon mesh netting on which crosswebbing is mounted on both the horizontal and vertical directions. This allows pouches to be mounted horizontally and vertically, increasing the versatility of the modular design. The cross webbing is made of flecktarn-printed cordura narrow webbing, for strength and durability.
The vest is fully adjustable over the shoulder and at both left and right sides. Long velcro panels over the shoulder allow the vest to be adjusted for a range of heights from 5'5 up to 6'6. The left and right adjustment will permit the medium-large vest to be adjusted from a 38 inch chest up to a 48 inch chest, and the xlarge-xxlarge vest to be adjusted from a 42 inch chest up to a 58 inch chest. The body of the vest is long, so as to accommodate riding-up as a result of wearing a bristol body armour, if required.
The vest features two large zip-up dump pockets, one each on left and right sides. These are mounted on either side of the zip front without interfering with the operation of the zip front. On the lower front sections of the vest, there are fold-away German webbing plates to accept the addition of pouches from the German webbing system. These are secured up into the vest by velcro when not required. The lower back and sides are adapted to retain the optional hip pad if required.
The IdZ vest is usually issued with the following optional and additional pouches: 2x G36 magazine pouch, 2x G36 folding magazine pouch, 1x triple grenade pouch, 1x smoke grenade pouch, 2x singe grenade pouch, 1x torch pouch, 1x SEM52 pouch, 2x adapter for rubberised NBC pouch.

http://www.flecktarn.co.uk/graphics/flecktarn/flizv1na500a.jpg

http://www.flecktarn.co.uk/graphics/flecktarn/flizv1na500b.jpg

http://www.flecktarn.co.uk/graphics/flecktarn/flizv1na500c.jpg

http://www.flecktarn.co.uk/graphics/flecktarn/flizv1na500d.jpg

[seventy6er]

Good post. Interesting!

[Jaegerfeld]

not entirely correct. The book is NOT about Special Forces. The book is about units that can be used in a special way. That's why there are tons of military-police pics in there, or Gebirgsjäger and so on. Not really units you would call SF. From my understanding, only KSK, KS and Fernspäher should be called SF.

From all of the pics posted, only ONE shows a SF-member.

ur right and ur not. Only in german term the correct name is Spezialisierte Kräfte ( spezialkräfte are only KSK + Kampfschwimmer). in us term they are Spezialkräfte 'cause in the us sof are even more then delta & seal6 as shown below:http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/9819/krnatospezopneu8hx.jpg

in america al the germ paras/jäger/gebirgsjäger ( most of jäger/gebirgsjäger are better infantrymen as every ranger will ever became) feldjägerkommandos, medevacteams fernspähzüge etc. will be sof.

its all politics

[AirCommando]

Maybe you´re right, but the book teach defintely about German SOC (Special Operation Capable) units with small chapters about SF. The background about the book is, that the author want to explain how German light infantry units are changed from the line infantry role to specialised operations capability. By the way, not every Jäger or Gebirgsjäger and Feldjäger is SOC, only some companies or platoons are SOC qualified. I hope it helps.

[seventy6er]

Does some one here have this book and can scan
the picture on page 100. it contain's a Fernspaher
in complete gear (ops-vest, ops-smock and bergen)

http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/fernspaeher_klein.jpg




PS Does this book: Das Kommando Spezialkrafte der Bundeswehr
by Reinhard Scholzen also a lot of pictures? More then already been
posted here a will a go?

Those are the best pics from Scholzen's book. There of course more good pics, the book is well worth the buy, but not as good as Sören Sünkler's book p-)

http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_15.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_16.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_17.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_18.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_19.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_20.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_21.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_22.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_23.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_24.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_25.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_26.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_27.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_28.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_29.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_30.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_31.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_32.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_33.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_34.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_35.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_36.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_37.jpg


http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_38.jpg

[evil-twin]

http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_21.jpg
What helis are that, look like little birds but Germany hasn´t any of these, haven´t they?

[AnUbIs]

To tell you the truth... I think if germany ever got in a war with the united states again ( For a reason no one knows) I think germany would have a good chance of beating the US..

And the KSK + German army has always been my favortie ever since i was alittle kid

[Weasel]

What helis are that, look like little birds but Germany hasn´t any of these, haven´t they?

Bo 105, I guess.

[Generation Kill]

To tell you the truth... I think if germany ever got in a war with the united states again ( For a reason no one knows) I think germany would have a good chance of beating the US..

And the KSK + German army has always been my favortie ever since i was alittle kid

And you say that just by looking at those pics? :roll:

[Macs.]

http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_21.jpg
What helis are that, look like little birds but Germany hasn´t any of these, haven´t they?

AFAIK that from a joint German-American training.

Germany has the BO-105, but I am not sure if we have any with seats on the sites. I am no expert on identifiy Helicopters, so thats just a guess.

[seventy6er]

Bo 105, I guess.

Thought so too. But someone corrected me and proved, that those are indeed Little Birds, the soldiers most probably being Delta or KSK-operators cross-training with them.

[seventy6er]

To tell you the truth... I think if germany ever got in a war with the united states again ( For a reason no one knows) I think germany would have a good chance of beating the US..

No way, dude. Losses for the USA would be extremely high, for sure. But I can't imagine that Germany could beat the USA in a non-conventional war. Our military is more than underfinanced, we don't have significant numbers of infantry and we have 5.000 MBT's less than in 1991 for example.

But let's not discuss about that, cause we're allies and it would never ever happen ;-)

[Mitch Rapp]

No way, dude. Losses for the USA would be extremely high, for sure. But I can't imagine that Germany could beat the USA in a non-conventional war. Our military is more than underfinanced, we don't have significant numbers of infantry and we have 5.000 MBT's less than in 1991 for example.

But let's not discuss about that, cause we're allies and it would never ever happen ;-)

Plus the whole WEU, let alone Germany, lacks logistics and still isn't able to transport by air large numbers of troops. Maybe UK and France are exception.

[seventy6er]

Maybe UK and France are exception.

They don't have large air-transport-capabilities.

[Resurrection]

They don't have large air-transport-capabilities.

The UK does with their C-17s.

[seventy6er]

The UK does with their C-17s.

I was talking about large transport-capabilities. How many Globemasters do they have? 4? 6? Go figure...

Edit: Just looked it up. The Royal Airforce leased 4 C-17s. The Bundeswehr for example chartered 6 Antonow An-124.

[Dominique]

Why are you guys even wasting time arguing about a war that's never going to happen? This is how several very dumb flames have started, and the only result is that what started off as a fun thread, with some good pics, ends up getting closd by the mods.

[larryzou]

is cool Germany Soldiers man thanks a lot to post

[ReggayMC]

In that first picture of transports in the desert: Is that a MG-42? Sure looks like one?

[Vandervahn]

^^

The german standard machine gun MG3 is a slightly redesigned MG 42 chambered in 7.62mm NATO.

[seventy6er]

Thanks for sharing,
nut i can't see the first picture:

Does it work now? I had an "Umlaut-ä" in the filename. Fixed it.

[apm]

pic 1 - 4 are Fallschirmjäger (regular paras).

pic 5 is military police

pic 6 is Fallschirmjäger Spezialzug (para special platoon)

pic 7 is light infantry (Jäger; some kind of ranger equivalent)

pic 8 is a Kampfschwimmer (equivalent of US Navy Seal)

pic 9 - 11 is military police

pic 12 is a paratroopers sniper

pic 13 is para special platoon

pic 14 is regular airforce infantry

pic 15 - 16 is military police
maybe you know it better than me, but i dont think those guys are feldjägers (besides of the guy in wüstentarn pattern for sure).
the feldjäger arrest team wears green vests with the black/white inscription "Feldjäger - Military Police" and they use other helmets in another size. and in addition they have black armpatches with the "mp"-badge.
well, as i said i might be wrong, but i saw some pictures of feldjägers with this equipment on pictures of the exercise "kolibri xl", and their gear was announced as the brand new standart equipment. i´ve never seen feldjägers with these stuff on that pics wich shows feldjägers in your opinion.

[Jaegerfeld]

AFAIK that from a joint German-American training.

Germany has the BO-105, but I am not sure if we have any with seats on the sites. I am no expert on identifiy Helicopters, so thats just a guess.

KSK tried to modify some of the old bo's but Luftfahrtbundesamt said NO.
"There is too much danger, man can fall out und die"
NO JOKE !
thats germany: soldiers try to survive but government says no! thats dangerous ! we cannot allow / purchase this

[Macs.]

KSK tried to modify some of the old bo's but Luftfahrtbundesamt said NO.
"There is too much danger, man can fall out und die"
NO JOKE !
thats germany: soldiers try to survive but government says no! thats dangerous ! we cannot allow / purchase this

Thanks for the information.

What a joke !

[apm]

KSK tried to modify some of the old bo's but Luftfahrtbundesamt said NO.
"There is too much danger, man can fall out und die"
NO JOKE !
thats germany: soldiers try to survive but government says no! thats dangerous ! we cannot allow / purchase this
the bureaucracy in germany is really sick. you know, on the other hand, KSK-Operators and SEK-M fly around with hueys or sea lynx with open doors so someone can fall out, too. :roll: just stupid and without sense.

[Count Lippe]

^^

The german standard machine gun MG3 is a slightly redesigned MG 42 chambered in 7.62mm NATO.
I'd put this into my signature, if I could have one on MP.net...:roll:

[mikcem]

Hi Guys Can anyone help with the link to the Video og G3 MGs firing in Kosovo...
Cheers from OZ ..

[seventy6er]

maybe you know it better than me, but i dont think those guys are feldjägers (besides of the guy in wüstentarn pattern for sure).
the feldjäger arrest team wears green vests with the black/white inscription "Feldjäger - Military Police" and they use other helmets in another size. and in addition they have black armpatches with the "mp"-badge.
well, as i said i might be wrong, but i saw some pictures of feldjägers with this equipment on pictures of the exercise "kolibri xl", and their gear was announced as the brand new standart equipment. i´ve never seen feldjägers with these stuff on that pics wich shows feldjägers in your opinion.

That's what the book the scans were taken from says.

[He219]

This one's from July 24th, visit to DSO/KSK training center, Graf-Zeppelin-Kaserne:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/ksKmorph-1.jpg

[Toysoldier]

How about "blacking out" the faces of the guys because of persec reasons?

[He219]

It's an official photo from the Bildarchiv Bundeswehr (http://www.bmvg.de/portal/a/bmvg/kcxml/04_Sj9SPykssy0xPLMnMz0vM0Y_QjzKLt4w3cjIDSYGZpub6kTCxoJRUfV-P_NxUfW_9AP2C3IhyR0dFRQBUN10x/delta/base64xml/L2dJQSEvUUt3QS80SVVFLzZfOV8yQjY!?yw_contentURL=%2FC1256F1200608B1B%2FW26RGDD8615INFODE%2Fcontent.jsp) website.
Thus the low resolution.

But if you really want me to ..
p-)

[ClydeFrog]

This one's from July 24th, visit to DSO/KSK training center, Graf-Zeppelin-Kaserne:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/ksKmorph-1.jpg
Turning off special KSK-predator-cloaking device

[Lt. KoNAne]

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/8070/svbw222uw.jpg

he looks like that russian guy from bourne supremecy

[Blackburn]

Hey HE 219,
you got this offical (!) pic of the BW-Site so you don't
have to "black it out" ! ;-)

Toysoldier:

blah, blah, blah.... BLAH! it's an offical pic.
check it out www.bundeswehr.de

[Macs.]

http://www.bundeswehr.de/portal/PA_1_0_LT/PortalFiles/C1256EF40036B05B/W26S2CQ6281INFODE/Pfullendorf_420.jpg?yw_repository=youatweb

Please don't feed the animals during the show.


How about "blacking out" the faces of the guys because of persec reasons?

How about... Not ? :)

[YANKEEBOBB]

Found These A While Back, A Bit Older Than These But Good Modern German Pics.

[flex]

Just to enhance the previous topic, here are some more detailed images of the Thales OB70 LUCIE night vision google.

This is the rear side with two diopters (that is where you look)
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q35/flex297/Night%20Vision%20Gear/LUCIE-NVT.jpg

This is the business end with a single objective lens
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q35/flex297/Night%20Vision%20Gear/LUCIE-NVT_2.jpg

[flex]

... and a splendid size comparison with American AN/PVS-14 monocular

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q35/flex297/Night%20Vision%20Gear/del.jpg

[jocker_89]

German soldiers look very tough

[BMF_EOD]

Flex-

Have you used the Lucie? Wondering about image clarity and weapons firing?

They remind me a bit of the US AN/PVS-21's (http://www.specwargear.com/images/nightvision-pvs21-4.jpg)but much smaller and more compact.

[aka DestroYA]

Thanks for your time posting guys!

[Macs.]

Lucie at work:
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/727456

I just posted a Kampfschwimmer Video here:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=104874

[Givati575]

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/6759/svbw113ut.jpg

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8485/scannen4000032oh.jpg

jesus that sight sits high

[Victor1]

Ok, I know this is not the best place to ask this but, have any German soldiers had any problem with G36s melting it's hand guards after prolonged shooting?

[Givati575]

Ok, I know this is not the best place to ask this but, have any German soldiers had any problem with G36s melting it's hand guards after prolonged shooting?

a polymer like that melting? no way

[flex]

Flex-

Have you used the Lucie? Wondering about image clarity and weapons firing?

They remind me a bit of the US AN/PVS-21's (http://www.specwargear.com/images/nightvision-pvs21-4.jpg)but much smaller and more compact.

Yes, I have. If you put a tube with the same performance in Thales LUCIE and in classic designs like DVS-8 or PVS-7, then LUCIE will be a tiny little bit worse. Worse, because due to complex mirror system built inside in order to keep the goggle small and flat you have to sacrifice some percentage of photons reaching the photocathode.

OTOH, the LUCIE is unbelievably light and compact. In my opinion, only Simrad GN and Belomo 14 can match it. Believe me, every soldier will gladly trade that 5% of performance against the extreme comfort of use LUCIE offers.

[pascalywood]

kick ass pics! and why was goldman banned?!?!?!?!?!?

[BadKarma26]

welcome to 2006

[John_J]

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8485/scannen4000032oh.jpg

Looks greek to me...

[SpikeBayonet]

Does anyone have a list of what color beret is assigned to which branch in the German Army? Somehow I've aquired a pile of them and would like to make sure I have the correct badges mounted...

[nickless]

Maroon: Airborne (Fallschirmjäger), Army Aviation (Heeresflieger), Long Range Recon (Fernspäher), KSK
Green: Infantry (Jäger), Armored Infantry (Panzergrenadiere)
Black: Armor (Panzertruppe), Armored Recon (Panzeraufkläsrungstruppe)
Bright Red: All the rest (artillery, air defense, transportation, military police, ...)
Medium Blue: Medical personal
Dark blue: Air Force and Naval infantry (Marinesicherung, Luftwaffensicherung)

[Cherni_95]

Germany's got such a bad-ass army!

[Bushman]

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/8485/scannen4000032oh.jpg

Looks greek to me...

Germany had many immigrants from Italy, foreign workers back in the 70's.

[apm]

every male person born in germany is enlisted as an conscript, even if his roots here only reach the 2nd generation. if i remember right another german member here said once he knows that guy, and that he is a turkish german.

[OneEightSeven]

Maroon: Airborne (Fallschirmjäger), Army Aviation (Heeresflieger), Long Range Recon (Fernspäher), KSK
Green: Infantry (Jäger), Armored Infantry (Panzergrenadiere)
Black: Armor (Panzertruppe), Armored Recon (Panzeraufkläsrungstruppe)
Bright Red: All the rest (artillery, air defense, transportation, military police, ...)
Medium Blue: Medical personal
Dark blue: Air Force and Naval infantry (Marinesicherung, Luftwaffensicherung)

Nearly righ.
But you forgot
Pink:Armor Driver
Yellow:EloKa(Fernmelder) do not know how they are called in english
KSK do not wear any Badges and Fernspäher wear Green Badges because they belong to the DSO and partly to the Fallschirmjägerspezialzüge

Regards Dom

[Karo]

The question concerned the color of the beret(s) not the color of the "Litzen". p-)

[apm]

Nearly righ.
But you forgot
Pink:Armor Driver
Yellow:EloKa(Fernmelder) do not know how they are called in english
KSK do not wear any Badges and Fernspäher wear Green Badges because they belong to the DSO and partly to the Fallschirmjägerspezialzüge

Regards Dom

what´s about the fernspählehrkompanie 200? i guess you mixed the poor fernspäher up with the luftlandeaufklärer, didn´t you? or did more "real" fernspäher remain in other units?

or maybe did i miss the final days of the fernspäher?? :-(

imho the translation would be either fernmelder (signal corps, just the communication work) or fernmeldetruppe eloka (electronic warfare what includes signal intelligence, communication intelligence and electronic intelligence), two different things

[Airforce1]

http://www.seventy6er.de/bilder/mil/KSK/scholzen/KSK_28.jpg
I have that jacket

[nickless]

I have that jacket


That jacket is the standard issue BDU top, called "Feldbluse". ;)