View Full Version : Polish Troops Open Fire on Bus with Possilbe Pilgrims In It
wholagun
02-29-2004, 07:59 PM
Polish soldiers open fire on busload of Shiite pilgrims, injuring 10
TAREQ AL-ISSAWI
Canadian Press
Sunday, February 29, 2004
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KARBALA, Iraq (AP) - Polish soldiers opened fire on a bus full of Shiite Muslim pilgrims from Iran after it failed to stop at a checkpoint Sunday, witnesses said. Ten people were hurt, including eight Iranian pilgrims, a Polish soldier and member of the Iraqi security forces, they said.
Polish officials, however, denied that the bus was carrying anyone but the driver and said they suspect the incident was an aborted terrorist attack. Shiite Muslims are travelling to the holy city of Karbala, 80 kilometres south of Baghdad, for the 10-day festival of Ashoura, which is expected to draw 1.5 million pilgrims, including about 100,000 Iranian Shiites.
The festival marks the death of one of the Shiites' chief saints, Imam Hussein, a grandson of the prophet Muhammad.
The bus, apparently having brake troubles, struck a minivan and swerved into a concrete barrier at a checkpoint manned by Polish and Iraqi security forces, witnesses said.
Abbas Hassan, a member of the U.S.-trained Iraqi Civil Defence Corps, said Polish troops opened up with heavy firepower for several minutes, targeting all cars coming in on the highway from Baghdad. He said the gunfire destroyed the right side of the bus.
Another witness, who was in another car at the checkpoint, said the bus appeared to be having brake troubles when it hit the barrier. He said the bus had a capacity of 44 passengers and was full.
The witness saw bleeding passengers pulled from the bus, as well as from another vehicle behind it carrying more than a dozen people. Hassan said one Civil Defence Corps officer lost his leg when a piece of the bus struck him.
The director of the hospital in Karbala refused to let reporters inside, saying none of the wounded had been taken there. But a police officer and a medic who had gone to the scene said eight Iranians were being treated for slight injuries, as well as the officer who lost his leg.
Polish Col. Zdzislaw Gnatowski, a military spokesman in Warsaw, Poland, said one Polish soldier was evacuated to a hospital in Karbala, 20 kilometres south of the checkpoint.
The commander of Polish forces in Iraq, Gen. Mieczyslaw Bieniek, denied that Polish troops fired on pilgrims and insisted the bus was empty except for the driver. Bieniek said troops were searching for explosives that may have been on the bus.
Further south, hundreds of Iraqis rallied against coalition troops Sunday after U.S. soldiers fired on a car that failed to stop when a military convoy passed by. One Iraqi was killed and another critically wounded.
The shooting took place near Rumaythah, 220 kilometres south of Baghdad near the city of Samawah, where Dutch soldiers and some 230 Japanese troops are based. The soldiers are working to supply Iraqis with clean water, rebuild schools and bolster local hospitals.
In Baghdad, Iraqi politicians struggled Sunday to find compromises on the shape of Kurdish autonomy and the role of Islamic law in an interim constitution.
One negotiator said there had been little movement, and officials said a final document would not be announced for several days.
Members of U.S.-picked Iraqi Governing Council have been holding marathon meetings for days trying to overcome serious divisions over an interim constitution, a key step in U.S. plans to hand over power to the Iraqis on June 30.
A Saturday deadline for announcing the charter passed without agreement.
In the United Arab Emirates capital of Abu Dhabi, international donors agreed Sunday to place about $1 billion US pledged for Iraq's reconstruction into a fund initially overseen by Japan, a move meant to reassure donors that their money would be spent properly.
Delegates who participated in a closed-door session said that some donors were hesitant to release pledged money to Iraq until the security situation there improved.
**** I hope thats its not true. If its true it really sucks, and be an awful mistake which would only been seen as aggression on the part of the coaltion members. Although this is wierd because of half the bus is destroyed why isn't anyone dead only injured and where did all the blood come from? this story is very confusing I will wait till monday morning to get solid facts about this, or if anyone has seen or heard anything on CNN please share as im in residence and the students on my floor hogged the TV to watch the oscars.
Maverick77
02-29-2004, 08:01 PM
I dont even understan why **** like this even gets reported.
"10 Iranian Pilgrims wounded by Polish troops"
who gives a ****. Its a war, it happens.
wholagun
02-29-2004, 08:03 PM
who gives a f***. Its a war, it happens
Just because it happen does not mean it should be acceptable, those were people that may have needlessly been wounded.
wholagun
02-29-2004, 08:08 PM
insidents like this also don't instill trust in the coaltion members and the US. Last week or two weeks ago when two car bombs were stopped from entering the coaltion base and detnated killing Iraqis, the Iraqis blamed the US for it saying it was not a car bomb but rather that the US had sent a missile. :roll:
George W. Bush
02-29-2004, 08:11 PM
That's what you get for driving a ****ty van with bad brakes.
Maverick77
02-29-2004, 08:14 PM
It just gets me how this stuff gets reported when its so insignificant in a war zone.
The Iraqis still have trust for the coalition belive me otherwise things would be a lot worse.
Since major combat ended only 500 Coalition members have been killed and a 3 or 4 thousand Iraqis.
That is low.
George W. Bush
02-29-2004, 08:24 PM
Well the majority of our casualties were command-detonated mines (not contact with enemy) which are a really nasty weapon. Hopefully we'll get the upper hand on those soon.
One thing is for sure (according to on site reports).... the bus was empty with obvious exception of the driver. Victims and wounded have been caused by the vehicle hitting the checkpoint at the high speed which was at the time full of pilgrims who have been searched before entering the pilgrimage city. Wounded Polish soldier is in heavy but stable condition after having 2 operations. One of the Iraqi policemen lost his legs. That is according to current reports of the International Division's Commander gen. Bieniek.
mustamato
03-01-2004, 05:45 AM
Since major combat ended only 500 Coalition members have been killed and a 3 or 4 thousand Iraqis.
That is low.
647 coalition and about 5000 Iraqis is what I´ve heard. But in any case "low"
is not the word I would use.
Maverick77
03-01-2004, 06:15 AM
Its low
very low
OnTheRocks
03-01-2004, 07:26 AM
How exactly did the polish soldier get injured and the iraqi one lose a leg from shooting at a bus full of unarmed pilgrims? :roll:
perdurabo
03-01-2004, 07:33 AM
How exactly did the polish soldier get injured and the iraqi one lose a leg from shooting at a bus full of unarmed pilgrims? :roll:
FDT wrote that bus was empty and crashed on checkpoint(?) full of pilgrims .... (how it was for real?)
How exactly did the polish soldier get injured and the iraqi one lose a leg from shooting at a bus full of unarmed pilgrims? :roll:
FDT wrote that bus was empty and crashed on checkpoint(?) full of pilgrims .... (how it was for real?)On the Rocks...Can't You read... or You just don't take any facts that oppose the assumed thesis (the thesis that all soldiers who are in Iraq are bloodthirsty murderers who kill civilians just for fun)?
Uncle Sam
03-01-2004, 01:16 PM
after it failed to stop at a checkpoint
...'nuff said !
wholagun
03-01-2004, 01:49 PM
How exactly did the polish soldier get injured and the iraqi one lose a leg from shooting at a bus full of unarmed pilgrims? :roll:
actually the bus has caught onto a piece of razor wire (barbed wire, whateve you wanna call it) and began dragging the razor wire which got engangaled to a near by Polish soldier and he was dragged. The bus driver refused to stop the bus and thus he they opened fire on the bus. Yes the pilgrams were not on the bus but at the check point, yesterdays information was very fresh and not accurate as is typical with fresh new developments.
Ouch thats gotta hurt getting entangled in razor wire and then dragged. :cantbeli:
wholagun: Who announced that stuff about barbed wire? Any site with updated news on the event?
Argyll
03-01-2004, 02:39 PM
I dont even understan why **** like this even gets reported.
"10 Iranian Pilgrims wounded by Polish troops"
who gives a f***. Its a war, it happens.
How did you feel when the F16 had the Blue on Blue with the Canadians during OEF?
Did you share the same immature attitude?
EvanL
03-01-2004, 02:44 PM
I dont even understan why **** like this even gets reported.
"10 Iranian Pilgrims wounded by Polish troops"
who gives a f***. Its a war, it happens.
How did you feel when the F16 had the Blue on Blue with the Canadians during OEF?
Did you share the same immature attitude?
Ignore him Argyll. Hes just trying to make himself look like a big man. If he witnessed even one person being shot he would piss himself and panic.
Airborne shut the **** up.
Javehn
03-01-2004, 02:46 PM
Well, it's interesting what ROE they have on their chekpoint . The fear of suicide bomber is offcorse always there , but sence the car allready broke threw the CP , it would be better judgement to fire on it's weels (or do it when the soldiers started to feel threat ) . I remember watching some picture on CNN , while U.S. Army had some car comming to close to the back of their track , and the soldiers started to shoot on the car ( that all happened at night ) . I was pretty shoked actually to see this kind of responce .
Well, it's interesting what ROE they have on their chekpoint . The fear of suicide bomber is offcorse always there , but sence the car allready broke threw the CP , it would be better judgement to fire on it's weels (or do it when the soldiers started to feel threat ). Ex post it's easy to find the best way outta ****. When ou see the car driving at high speed into Your CP... You may expect that the Santa may have brought You some explosive gift too. In such situation I would first **** my pants and then (if still alive) I would choose to shoot the driver having hope that he won't manage to trigger the smth he could bring with him (of course he could be just a poor asshole with broken brakes, but I really doubt if I had a time to speculate about it there and then). Potential kaboom could simply multiply the vicims toll a few times (taking the bus's potential load volume into consideration).
Maverick77
03-01-2004, 02:58 PM
I dont even understan why **** like this even gets reported.
"10 Iranian Pilgrims wounded by Polish troops"
who gives a f***. Its a war, it happens.
How did you feel when the F16 had the Blue on Blue with the Canadians during OEF?
Did you share the same immature attitude?
Same thing, its a war and unfortunatly that **** happens.
so if im immature for understanding that in war bad things happen and 10 civilians in a war being wounded means nothing.
then im immature.
and Evanloyd you do not know me you know absolutly nothing about me.
I find it pretty ****in hilarious how rapped up you get in an internet forum as to even think anyone would come on here trying to make themself look like a man.
usa320
03-01-2004, 03:04 PM
after it failed to stop at a checkpoint
It failed to stop at a checkpoint. Checkpoints are clearly marked with signs that say failure to stop will result in the vehicle being fired on.
SHoulda stopped.
Argyll
03-01-2004, 03:09 PM
I dont even understan why **** like this even gets reported.
"10 Iranian Pilgrims wounded by Polish troops"
who gives a f***. Its a war, it happens.
How did you feel when the F16 had the Blue on Blue with the Canadians during OEF?
Did you share the same immature attitude?
Same thing, its a war and unfortunatly that **** happens.
so if im immature for understanding that in war bad things happen and 10 civilians in a war being wounded means nothing.
then im immature.
and Evanloyd you do not know me you know absolutly nothing about me.
I find it pretty f*** hilarious how rapped up you get in an internet forum as to even think anyone would come on here trying to make themself look like a man.
well you're not serving so Its possible you're still in High school
remember this?
Will be in Canadian Infantry, get into one of the para companies.
**** does not happen especially incidents like friendly fire,try telling the guys who got hit that **** happens.............that **** happens when someone fux up!!...........when you enlist and start to follow ROE's then you'll look at it differently
Maverick77
03-01-2004, 03:14 PM
People **** up I hate it just as much as you. But it has happened in every single war in history and will continue for every single war in history.
Therefore it should not come as some massive deal or a suprise when it happens.
Javehn
03-01-2004, 03:17 PM
Ex post it's easy to find the best way outta ****. When ou see the car driving at high speed into Your CP... You may expect that the Santa may have brought You some explosive gift too. In such situation I would first **** my pants and then (if still alive) I would choose to shoot the driver having hope that he won't manage to trigger the smth he could bring with him (of course he could be just a poor asshole with broken brakes, but I really doubt if I had a time to speculate about it there and then). Potential kaboom could simply multiply the vicims toll a few times (taking the bus's potential load volume into consideration).
Unfortunatly familiar with this kind of scenarios . And in some cases they got caused by over nervious soldiers , dumb commander on the field , and bad procedures done in CP that caused shootout and unfortunate and unneaded death . Those things would be overided by good construction of checkpoint (something , according to what i saw on TV , isn't done at all ) , tactical deployment of forces in CP , and a well played scenario to every threat and case possible . A good sollution to suicide threat is to build double step checkpoint , where the main body of checkpoint is aprox 200 metters from the first stoping and checking point .
Those things perhaps happend in war , but they all could get avoided , when everybody learning each other experience , and it's conclussions and sollutions on every matter . In which case , many unnessesary death could be resolved .
Argyll
03-01-2004, 03:19 PM
after it failed to stop at a checkpoint
It failed to stop at a checkpoint. Checkpoints are clearly marked with signs that say failure to stop will result in the vehicle being fired on.
SHoulda stopped.
Yes and apparently the Pilgrims were not on that Bus either!!
Unfortunatly familiar with this kind of scenarios . And in some cases they got caused by over nervious soldiers , dumb commander on the field , and bad procedures done in CP that caused shootout and unfortunate and unneaded death . Those things would be overided by good construction of checkpoint (something , according to what i saw on TV , isn't done at all ) , tactical deployment of forces in CP , and a well played scenario to every threat and case possible . A good sollution to suicide threat is to build double step checkpoint , where the main body of checkpoint is aprox 200 metters from the first stoping and checking point .
Those things perhaps happend in war , but they all could get avoided , when everybody learning each other experience , and it's conclussions and sollutions on every matter . In which case , many unnessesary death could be resolved . Experience is vital in such a circumstances... but remember how You got this lesson learned... it certainly wasn't an easy ride. This knowledge takes lots of kicked asses and time... unfortunately. The worst part is that You never can say that You've learned everything about that... the other side learns too... :(
Uncle Sam
03-01-2004, 03:43 PM
Ok, "what if" the bus was filled with explosives and they just let it keep going, what then ? I'm sure the soldiers really don't want to get blown up. The bus failed to stop, they shot it, unfortunatley killing civilians. What would you do ??
OnTheRocks
03-01-2004, 03:51 PM
How exactly did the polish soldier get injured and the iraqi one lose a leg from shooting at a bus full of unarmed pilgrims? :roll:
FDT wrote that bus was empty and crashed on checkpoint(?) full of pilgrims .... (how it was for real?)On the Rocks...Can't You read... or You just don't take any facts that oppose the assumed thesis (the thesis that all soldiers who are in Iraq are bloodthirsty murderers who kill civilians just for fun)?
yes, yes yes, that is precisely it!! you hit the jackpot
you really are a sad sad person
now go away
How exactly did the polish soldier get injured and the iraqi one lose a leg from shooting at a bus full of unarmed pilgrims? :roll:
FDT wrote that bus was empty and crashed on checkpoint(?) full of pilgrims .... (how it was for real?)On the Rocks...Can't You read... or You just don't take any facts that oppose the assumed thesis (the thesis that all soldiers who are in Iraq are bloodthirsty murderers who kill civilians just for fun)?
yes, yes yes, that is precisely it!! you hit the jackpot
you really are a sad sad person
now go away Couldn't You just admit that You simply have problems with understanding written english? Would be more elegant and less personal...
OnTheRocks
03-01-2004, 04:28 PM
I dont get the problem here..
KARBALA, Iraq (AP) - Polish soldiers opened fire on a bus full of Shiite Muslim pilgrims from Iran after it failed to stop at a checkpoint Sunday, witnesses said. Ten people were hurt, including eight Iranian pilgrims, a Polish soldier and member of the Iraqi security forces, they said.
and
Another witness, who was in another car at the checkpoint, said the bus appeared to be having brake troubles when it hit the barrier. He said the bus had a capacity of 44 passengers and was full.
Now you wrote
One thing is for sure (according to on site reports).... the bus was empty with obvious exception of the driver. Victims and wounded have been caused by the vehicle hitting the checkpoint at the high speed which was at the time full of pilgrims who have been searched before entering the pilgrimage city. Wounded Polish soldier is in heavy but stable condition after having 2 operations. One of the Iraqi policemen lost his legs. That is according to current reports of the International Division's Commander gen. Bieniek.
And since what you have written is not the only thing written in this tread, neither does it deal with what I was asking:
How exactly did the polish soldier get injured and the iraqi one lose a leg from shooting at a bus full of unarmed pilgrims?
And now the problem seems obvious to me, you claim just like the Polish soldiers that the bus was empty.
However a witness claims that it was not.
I simply asked HOW did they get injured?
I don't give a flying toss if the bus was empty or not or if friggin santa claus was behind the wheel, I asked how did the polish soldier become injured..
Was it from shrapnell?
Did the bus run him over?
Did the driver have an AK47 under his seat whitch he shot him with
Did god summon Batman and Robin to beat him into a pulp for shooting at the bus (reguardless of if it was full of people or not, because thats not what I was aiming at)..
However in this thread just as in the thread about NATO you prefer to put words into my mouth rather than to actually understand what it is that Im asking because it seems that you are only interested in creating a hurricane out of a breeze..
During the car bomb attack on a Hilla base witnesses have seen the american plane dropping a bomb or rocket... If You sit in a cosy hotel room in baghdad and get Your news via phone calls, You become the quickest of all newsfeeders of them all... but are You the most reliable or the most "sensational"? It sounds much better in media when "polish soldiers have fired on the pilgrims full bus". When there is a slight difference of having the bus full or empty I rather choose to believe not the first but the second reports... As it comes to the wounds of polish soldier read the few posts higher to know... You never read the posts of the thread You write in?
Upfrontreporting
03-01-2004, 04:47 PM
I hope all the wounded of this incident will recover as quickly and to the greatest extent as possible, it's terrible when accidents happen like this one.
regards.
OnTheRocks
03-01-2004, 04:51 PM
*sigh*
I dont know why you keep trying to, ah, fuggit, I know now that he was caught in razorwire or whatever you wanna call it, but I didn't know it then, the reason for my previous post was because you we're being an utter prick for whom I had to clarify my question, and nomatter how much I tried to clarify it, you still dont understand it...
I DONT CARE IF THE BUS WAS EMPTY OR NOT
I wanted to know HOW he obtained his injuries for crying out loud
You must suffer from some kind of retardation or something because you go on about the things that I didnt ask about or didnt care about after I've dedicated a whole post with quotes explaining my intent, and you still dont get it rofl
talk about having problems with "written english"
or do you want me to explain everything to you in polish instead
Im not going to waste time on this thread anymore, I know now what I didnt before, no thanks to you ofcourse, but since Wholagun read my post and understood my question and answered it, goodbye.
OnTheRocks
03-01-2004, 05:01 PM
yes I wouldnt know what to say either after having been as gutted as you are now
wholagun
03-01-2004, 07:47 PM
wholagun: Who announced that stuff about barbed wire? Any site with updated news on the event?
I can't find where the hell I read that so help me god. Damn Im kinda pissed off that i can't find it as well. If your in Poland then im sure you can catch the story on the tv, otherwise PM me and I'll show to the TVP on the web which usally has coverage from the Polish bases in Iraq. Sorry again that I can't find the article where I read this.
yes I wouldnt know what to say either after having been as gutted as you are now rofl rofl Nie chce mi sie z toba gadac...
wholagun
03-02-2004, 02:15 AM
yes I wouldnt know what to say either after having been as gutted as you are now rofl rofl Nie chce mi sie z toba gadac...
translation other members "I don't want to talk with you either"
guys if your gonna use Polish add an english translation with it, its just common curtasy to other non Polish members. p-)
yes I wouldnt know what to say either after having been as gutted as you are now rofl rofl Nie chce mi sie z toba gadac...
translation other members "I don't want to talk with you either"
guys if your gonna use Polish add an english translation with it, its just common curtasy to other non Polish members. p-) To be precise: I don't wanna talk with You... Word "either" is wholagun's "licentia poetica" (that embraces the context)... ;)http://gfx.filmweb.pl/bin2/f/1142/foto.gif
mack pl
03-02-2004, 05:40 AM
Few information about this accident.Polish soldiers opened fire when this bus dont stop on checkpoint.Poles started shot above the bus ,but when he dont stop and hit checkpoint(hit one poles and several iraqis0 soldiers kill driver.It was very fast.On this bus was only f***n driver, any pilgrims.So, we dont shoot any innocent people.and this guy havent got any technical problems with bus, HE WAS F***N TERRORIST.Regards.
wholagun
03-02-2004, 11:13 AM
yes I wouldnt know what to say either after having been as gutted as you are now rofl rofl Nie chce mi sie z toba gadac...
translation other members "I don't want to talk with you either"
guys if your gonna use Polish add an english translation with it, its just common curtasy to other non Polish members. p-) To be precise: I don't wanna talk with You... Word "either" is wholagun's "licentia poetica" (that embraces the context)... ;)http://gfx.filmweb.pl/bin2/f/1142/foto.gif
:oops: whats wrong with being poetic
:oops: whats wrong with being poetic It's nothing wrong about it... The greatest samurai warriors of history were poets too... It simply is a rare human feature to be poetic nowadays.
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