Finnish PM apologises for Suomen Sisu's cartoon posting

[Salonen]

Finnish PM apologises for Suomen Sisu's cartoon posting

14.2.2006 at 16:14

Finnish Prime Minister Matti Vanhanen (centre) said Tuesday that he was sorry that the cartoons depicting the prophet Muhammad had been posted on the website of Suomen Sisu, a Finnish right-wing nationalist group.

"I regret that the cartoons deeply hurting the feelings of the Muslim world have, against the established rules of good editorial conduct, been published on the homepage of a small group of Finnish extremists," Mr Vanhanen, a former newspaper editor, said in Turin, according to a statement from the Prime Minister's Office.

"I am particularly disappointed that we, in Finland, also have individuals who want to insult the values considered sacred by Islam."

"I wish to apologise on my own behalf and on behalf of the Finnish Government that the religious feelings of Muslims have thus been offended also in Finland."

Mr Vanhanen added in the statement that the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) had decided to conduct a preliminary investigation into the matter based on the Finnish penal code's section on the sanctity of religion.

[Kekkonen]

Mr Vanhanen added in the statement that the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) had decided to conduct a preliminary investigation into the matter based on the Finnish penal code's section on the sanctity of religion.

Won't lead anywhere.

[joka]

That site's traffic probably grew tenfolded as a result of Vanhanen condemning them. Way to go. I had never even heard of these guys before this.

[Kekkonen]

That site's traffic probably grew tenfolded as a result of Vanhanen condemning them. Way to go. I had never even heard of these guys before this.

It was mentioned in Finnish media, (I read it in Metro myself) a couple of days ago. I guess Vanhanen reacted to this after reading it in media himself (or hearing it about it from advisors).

[CSAR]

While almost all the other western countries give support to Denmark our gutless leaders rush to apologize because some neverheard-website posted something that has been posted about one million times all over the world. And we have elected these pathetic wussies to represent our country ... I feel ashaimed.

[Isbjoern]

By respectively apologising, and closing down web-sites,both the finnish PM ,mr.Vanhanen and the swedish minister of foreign affairs, mrs.Freivalds, have done exactly what the embassy-burners and rioters wanted them to do.
In my book, they both have made cowardly surrenders to islamic terrorists.
I have always thought that one should never negotiate with terrorists, and definetely not let them win. Vanhanen and Freivalds have really disgraced themselves and their respective governments. Where are their loyalty and sympathy towards Norway, Austria and Denmark? Are they more concerned about the relationship with the islamofascists in the Middle-east? I can't imagine that this will look good in the history-books.

[Laworkerbee]

Well said Isbjoern

[Kekkonen]

Well said Isbjoern

Except that what he says has nothing to do with Finland. This isn't Finland's fight. Okay so Finland has surrended to islamic terrorists, so how come I don't see those mullah's out on the streets now putting up their green flags? Probably because there are no such people here.

[Saranof]

Saying; "Sorry that some of our countrymen are reactionary ****heads who just want to piss muslims off" isn't "surrendering". World politics don't work like playground fights. You can't go around thinking you are the biggest and best and you don't care want people think.

[perdurabo]

kekkonen
"first they came shoot some guy 2 streets from me i did nothing, then they came and shoot my neighbour i did nothing, then they came for me and there was noone to help me"
you tell me that this isn't your fight, but remember that you are part of western culture circle and for those dudes it dosen't matter if you are finn dane pole french or whatever, you do anything that they dislike and your ammbasies will be burnt like danish ones, basicly you give them green light "you can abuse our friends it's ok we are sorry that we have free speach, go ahead burn some more flags ambbasies etc..."

sarnof it isn't politics cause it involves thousands of ppl in both cultures its more crowd psychology, its spine less and mark of cowardience, you can defend your values or be abused.

[tkks]

Vanhanen is just as pussy as he looks like. Just collecting extra points. Grannies like comments like that and will vote for him in the next elections.

And probably Vanhanen is also worried, that Kuwait won't by Patria's AMVs if they get pissed of for Finland too.

Hail the freedom of speech! I thought we had one in Finland, but maybe I was wrong. I do not share the politicalt view of Suomen Sisu, but still, come on! No one would have known about that website if that had not been in the headlines today.

[Taekwondo]

Hail the freedom of speech! I thought we had one in Finland, but maybe I was wrong.

Finland still has a rather stalinistic freedom of speech = you speak only of the mythical correct things. All other views are bad and spreading different ideas is bad. Thank the 70s and the wannabe-komissars of the then-future Soviet Finland for that.

[Laworkerbee]

Saying; "Sorry that some of our countrymen are reactionary ****heads who just want to piss muslims off" isn't "surrendering". World politics don't work like playground fights. You can't go around thinking you are the biggest and best and you don't care want people think.

Really? Take a poll Pal, I would say most of us here could give two ****s what some radical Islamist thinks, I for one could care less what they think....as they probably think the same of thier women...

[Isbjoern]

Except that what he says has nothing to do with Finland. This isn't Finland's fight.
What kind of short time memory is this? When Soviet attacked Finland in the Winter-war, what did thousands of volunteers from Sweden, Uk, Denmark and Norway do? Did they say: " This isn't our fight? "

You have chosen your nick well. You sound like an echo from the sixties and seventies, where Finland under Kekkonen tip-toed in fear of provoking the Russian Bear: "Kekkoslovakia...." Now you and your PM are tip-toeing again.

[Taekwondo]

Don't confuse a kekkonen and Kekkonen - the latter took a lot of chances and actually was active in resisting attempts at sovietization whilst making it look like he was flying their flag! It would take a long time to go through what kind of things he arranged and tried to arrange.

Where else did a (capitalist!) nation next to the SU have it's communists integrated into the political background and effectively neutralized? Kekkonen was very importand in making it possible and still have it look like things in Finland were going where the soviets wanted.

So no bad rap about U.K.K.

[GazB]

have done exactly what the embassy-burners and rioters wanted them to do.


Who cares what the extremists want or don't want. He was appologising to any Muslims that might have been offended by cartoons that were intended to be offensive. Just as he probably would have appologised if the cartoons had been written by a muslim satirist that depicted Catholic priests molesting boys in their care and then having a Jesus like figure caring more for the Priest than the boy. It might be that Muslims perception of the modern catholic church but that doesn't mean it should be published.

(If you are a strong believer in the freedom of speech go to a movie theatre and wait till it is full then stand up and yell you have a bomb... hey freedom of speech... no one is actually going to get hurt right?)

[kineret]

STOP APOLOGIZING!! STOP IT!

stop this pathetic spineless retreat on basic freedoms that are the foundation of our society. europe has a never ending appeasement syndrome. support Denmark, support the freedom of speech.

[Thor]

Saying; "Sorry that some of our countrymen are reactionary ****heads who just want to piss muslims off" isn't "surrendering". World politics don't work like playground fights. You can't go around thinking you are the biggest and best and you don't care want people think.
You are biased in this..... Don't you feel a bit lost on this forum with your extremist views?

We should not apologize for anything, just continue the fight for freedom throughout the world.

Assholes that oppose this and support embassy burners/terrorists should have their asses GITMO'ed.

[s005288]

It is now evident that there exists a special responsibility for western governments to apologise for what private citizens / corporations decide to in regards to these mohammed cartoons.

Numerous cartoons depicting Jesus and god in equally, if not even more, insulting ways have been published without a thought of apologising.

It's clear then that some western governments give in to violence and treaths of terror. Spinelss leaders discust me.

[Lurps]

I voted for the guy in the first round, not ever again. I would like to know what Niinistö thinks? If this is the path the cowards are taking, it is no suprise if these Timo Soinis and Suomen Sisus are gaining popularity.:roll: EDIT And it has to be those AMVs, he flew to Kuwait in a hurry to kiss ass, just after the protests started.

[Lurps]

What kind of short time memory is this? When Soviet attacked Finland in the Winter-war, what did thousands of volunteers from Sweden, Uk, Denmark and Norway do? Did they say: " This isn't our fight? "

You have chosen your nick well. You sound like an echo from the sixties and seventies, where Finland under Kekkonen tip-toed in fear of provoking the Russian Bear: "Kekkoslovakia...." Now you and your PM are tip-toeing again. Sorry but your talking BS. They were what they were, volunteers. Im sure majority of Finns are behind Denmark in this issue. Just the officialls act differently. Just as much one could ask why there wasnt official help as troops from these countries during the Winter War. Maybe not Denmark do to Germany, but Norge och Sverige. And Kekkonen was a patriot, others around him didnt understand him, and acted like fools. I dont agree with all his policies but he ment good.

[Kekkonen]

Speaking of U.K. Kekkonen, in a way this kind of reminds me of Finlandization.


Paraphrasing president Paasikivi, the Finnish political cartoonist Kari Suomalainen defined Finlandization as "The art of bowing to the East so carefully that it could not be considered mooning the West."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization

Might be considered spineless by some, and it's easy to laugh about it. But I don't consider Vanhanen to be bowing down to anyone, he is the appointed (and even democratically chosen) leader of the Finnish nation and state and thus has a responsibility to make decisions that are the best in a long term. This cartoon sillyness will be forgotten in a couple of weeks as it is. Clowns like Timo Soini can say what they want, they don't have any real influence anyway.

[Isbjoern]

Sorry but your talking BS. They were what they were, volunteers. Im sure majority of Finns are behind Denmark in this issue. Just the officialls act differently.

BS? I still think the parallell is obvious: Denmark (and several other European countries) is under attack. "Kekkonen" states that this is not a matter that concerns Finland, and he defends the actions of PM Vanhanen. Denmark is a fellow EU-member and a close and friendly neighbour. To me Vanhanen is a coward. If, as someone mentioned, the reason for his brown-nosed attitude towards islamofascists is the sale of AMVs to Kuwait, then he is a Judas as well, counting his 30 silvercoins while the Danish and Norwegian embassies are burning.

But Lurps, as you are saying, and as I know Finns myself, they are all behind Denmark. So how come your PM acts as he does?

(And Kekkonnen; Timo Soini may be a clown, (and I had never heard of the Suomen Sisu web-site,) but Vanhanens actions only make the rest of the world aware of his/their existence. )

[Lurps]

BS? I still think the parallell is obvious: Denmark (and several other European countries) is under attack. "Kekkonen" states that this is not a matter that concerns Finland, and he defends the actions of PM Vanhanen. Denmark is a fellow EU-member and a close and friendly neighbour. To me Vanhanen is a coward. If, as someone mentioned, the reason for his brown-nosed attitude towards islamofascists is the sale of AMVs to Kuwait, then he is a Judas as well, counting his 30 silvercoins while the Danish and Norwegian embassies are burning.

But Lurps, as you are saying, and as I know Finns myself, they are all behind Denmark. So how come your PM acts as he does?

(And Kekkonnen; Timo Soini may be a clown, (and I had never heard of the Suomen Sisu web-site,) but Vanhanens actions only make the rest of the world aware of his/their existence. ) Well mostly we agree, but in dont think its a good to compare the situation to Winter War, the fact remains, we were left alone. That is something that every foreign volunteer will state. They came to fight because they were dissapointed by their own goverments. The only volunteers that made it to the front were mainly the 8500 swedes and some norvegians, others were still in training when the war ended.

[Turhapuro]

So much about nordic solidarity...

[Kekkonen]

So much about nordic solidarity...

LOL. Please... Denmark is one of Finland's main trading partners. Has been, is, will be. 2004 Finland imported goods for 1 411 million € from Denmark, and exported for 1 087 million € to Denmark.

[Jani.R]

And now Halonen has jumped in on this "sorry sorry" trend.

[tkks]

So how come your PM acts as he does?
He's a member of the Central Party. And we have a saying that "Central Party betrays you always". That's a rough translation.

[Lurps]

He's a member of the Central Party. And we have a saying that "Central Party betrays you always". That's a rough translation. Well, still would like to hear Coaliton partys stand on the issue, might be the same.

[joka]

BS? I still think the parallell is obvious: Denmark (and several other European countries) is under attack. "Kekkonen" states that this is not a matter that concerns Finland, and he defends the actions of PM Vanhanen. Denmark is a fellow EU-member and a close and friendly neighbour. To me Vanhanen is a coward. If, as someone mentioned, the reason for his brown-nosed attitude towards islamofascists is the sale of AMVs to Kuwait, then he is a Judas as well, counting his 30 silvercoins while the Danish and Norwegian embassies are burning.

But Lurps, as you are saying, and as I know Finns myself, they are all behind Denmark. So how come your PM acts as he does?

(And Kekkonnen; Timo Soini may be a clown, (and I had never heard of the Suomen Sisu web-site,) but Vanhanens actions only make the rest of the world aware of his/their existence. )
I agree. This could have been any free society, it just happened to be Denmark. It's just our spineless foreign policy at it again (Just like with NATO, where "Someone might get angry at us if we associate ourselves with the US" is used as a serious argument for not joining)

To top it all off, here's the Foreign Minister's open letter to major arabian newspapers



Dear Sir,
I have followed with growing concern and alarm the repercussions of the publication in Denmark
several months ago of insulting caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed and their subsequent
republication by some other European newspapers and the violent acts that have occurred in reaction to
them.
From the Finnish perspective, a country where no pictures so far - to my great satisfaction - have been
published in newspapers, I would like to emphasise that intentionally hurting the religious feelings of
anyone is unwise and deplorable. http://formin.finland.fi/netcomm/ImgLib/2/16/Tuomiojan_kirje130206.pdf

Let's face it, Finland is Judas. I'm truly ashamed :oops:

[Kekkonen]

Let's face it, Finland is Judas. I'm truly ashamed :oops:

Tuomioja's main point in that open letter is; "I would like to emphasise that intentionally hurting the religious feelings of anyone is unwise and deplorable."

Speaking of Judas, you do know that Finland didn't harass Jews, despite being Germany's waffenbruder during world war two, just because of that exaxt same point, freedom of religion? I'd say that Göbbels, Himmler et al put a tad more pressure on Finland then than the Arab community does today.

[edit]Right man.

[Lazarou]

Sounds like Mr Vanhanen could use a little more cowbell.

[joka]

Vanhanen's main point in that open letter is; "I would like to emphasise that intentionally hurting the religious feelings of anyone is unwise and deplorable."

Speaking of Judas, you do know that Finland didn't harass Jews, despite being Germany's waffenbruder during world war two, just because of that exaxt same point, freedom of religion? I'd say that Göbbels, Himmler et al put a tad more pressure on Finland then than the Arab community does today.
The letter I posted wasn't written by Vanhanen but Tuomioja, the Foreign minister. And his main point is to make sure they think our supposedly free press didn't print anything, to make sure we don't get boycotted.

And I don't know if you knew it but 4 jews were handed to Nazi Germany, fully knowing what would happen to them. (Not that it has anything to do with the issue at hand)

[Kekkonen]

Found this on Helsingin Sanomat, should be related to this.


Mr. Europe, I presume
Cartoon controversy forms backdrop of Prime Minister Vanhanen’s visit to Kuwait

http://www.hs.fi/kuvat/iso_webkuva/1135218726697.jpeg
Prime Minister Matti Vanhanen arrived in Kuwait on Monday in the midst of
the furore caused by the Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.
Photo: STEPHANIE MCGEHEE / *******

By Antti Blåfield

It was a somewhat unsettling beginning to the week. Prime Minister Matti Vanhanen flew to Kuwait to meet with the new Emir, Sabah al-Ahmad al-Sabah.
The one-day visit was officially an export promotion trip. The Finnish military equipment manufacturer Patria is negotiating an important deal on supplying armoured personnel carriers to Kuwait, and the company had asked the Prime Minister to help in the export effort.
But why in the world did the Finnish Prime Minister have to go selling military materiel to Kuwait now that the conflict between the Christian West and the Muslim world had turned violent? Diplomatic missions belonging to Denmark - and those of a few other countries - had become targets of attack in Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, and Iran.

Surely, this should be a time to talk about peace and not weapons with the political leaders of the Islamic world.
In fact, peace was a topic of discussion in Kuwait. Alongside the military hardware deal, there was talk about the dispute that emerged over the caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.
Vanhanen did not reveal much about the discussions in his comments to the Finnish News Agency. "Finland’s role is that we can do what we have done: we have respected the feelings of the Muslims. This is something that I consider very important."
The statement brought another wave of indignation: is there really nothing else to say, other than to praise oneself?
Political scientist Prof. Tuomas Forsberg of the University of Helsinki offers this comparison: "Imagine that the Russians were persecuting us over some cartoon, and the Danish comment would be that it’s good that we haven’t done anything like this; the Russians should not be annoyed."

After the visit, Vanhanen did not want to issue any more statements about the meeting, or about Finnish policy on the crisis. However, the trip was significantly different from what it appeared to be.
The Finnish Prime Minister had the opportunity to meet with the political leadership of a key Arab country right when the cartoons dispute appeared to be getting out of control, and the opportunity was taken. When the crisis deepened, it was decided that trip - which had been under preparation for some time - should go ahead as quickly as possible. The Prime Minister of a Nordic nation would have the possibility in Kuwait to discuss our values and to communicate messages.

Before the trip to Kuwait, Vanhanen was in touch with Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen, allowing the Finnish PM to bring political leaders in the Middle East a message from Denmark’s political leadership as well.
"Vanhanen’s trip and its content were highly surprising in the light of the tradition of Finnish foreign policy", said Pertti Joenniemi, who works as a researcher at the Danish Institute of International Relations. He has observed that Vanhanen’s trip had been made note of in Denmark. "It was a clear plus for Finland."

But we should remember that it was not just the dour prime minister of the remote country of Finland who jetted off to Kuwait; Vanhanen is also a member of the leading troika of the European Union.
At the beginning of the year, Matti Vanhanen became one of the key political leaders of the EU, when Finland joined the troika, which steers the EU’s foreign policy. The members include the holder of the rotating EU Presidency, as well as the previous and next holders. The EU Presidency will pass from Austria to Finland at the beginning of July.

Finland’s long-term policy line has been to stay back in the shadows or to focus on protecting our own interests.
Finland’s self-centred - and some might say cynical - line can be said to have begun in 1831 when soldiers of the Finnish Guard marched, with crowds cheering, onto a ship in the harbour of Helsinki to go and help put down the first Polish rebellion. The Poles had risen against the Russian Empire in order to become independent.
The second Polish uprising a generation later was a more difficult pill for the Finns. It was the first time that the country was divided politically. J.V. Snellman underscored loyalty to the Russian Czar. The liberals emphasised the rights of the Polish people.

Snellman’s policy of restraint and self-discipline was restored to the political canon after the Continuation War of 1941-44, when Finland had to accommodate the views of the Soviet Union. The restraint was a kind of self-defence but it also contained a measure of honour: it is best not incite anyone else to do something which one cannot stick with as well.
This kind of thinking labelled the attitude of President Mauno Koivisto towards the Baltic Countries, which were trying to get their independence restored.

Finland’s policy lines have not always been appreciated in Denmark; on the contrary, Finland has been labelled a toady of the Soviet Union.
Danes have snickered at Finnish self-censorship and caution. Now that they stepped into a minefield, because the head of the culture desk of the newspaper Jyllands-Posten decided to test the limits of the self-censorship of cartoonists, Finland unexpectedly ended up being one of the main channels for the Danish Prime Minister to get his message out.
Finland became important, because it was available. Norway has a good reputation in the Middle East, but now it was a party to the uproar over the caricatures, because a Christian newspaper in Norway had also published the cartoons that so offended Muslims.
As for Sweden, Denmark does not like to ask the Swedes for help, because relations between the two countries are burdened by the constant struggle over dominance in the Nordic region.
An even more important reason is that the political leaders of Sweden and Denmark have clashed sharply over immigration policy issues. Denmark does not want to give credence to the impression of Sweden as a moral superpower.

Another factor boosting the status of the Finnish Prime Minister in the Muslim world is that the Finnish European Commissioner, Olli Rehn, dared in the midst of the EU’s constitution crisis last year to demand that the EU member states adhere to their promise to Turkey to begin membership negotiations.
In addition, President Martti Ahtisaari is doing mediation work in Kosovo, on the border between the Christian and Islamic worlds.

It has been typical for Finland that foreign policy has also defined domestic policy. In Denmark, it is just the opposite, and this is also reflected in the cartoon crisis.
Whereas the Finnish policy line has been defined by the country's relationship with Russia, the Danish identity has been moulded by the relationship with Germany and the nobility.
As the result of losing a war to Germany in 1864, Danish burghers and peasants took control. The German nobility was thrown out, and the rights of the country’s own nobles and the monarchy were reduced. Already at that time, the farmers’ party, Venstre, was a strong political power. Venstre is the party of the present Danish PM.
Ever since those days, the Danes have protected their right to control their own lives. This is why Denmark has constantly had an obstructionist attitude in the European Union.
Denmark’s national identity leans on Christian values, and also for this reason, it is easy to stoke up xenophobic sentiments in Denmark. The cheerful religiosity of the Danes suddenly turned to suspicion and hostility toward strangers of a different religion, and this popular opinion also guides Denmark’s foreign policy. For instance, Denmark is taking part in the Iraq war alongside the United States.

The cartoons might not have caused a crisis like this in Denmark, had the relationship between public opinion and the political leadership and the local Muslim communities been in good shape.
"With Sweden and Finland it is worth noting that local Muslim communities have acted in a conciliatory manner, and that also has an effect on the positions taken by governments", says Jaakko Blomberg, a veteran civil servant at the Ministry for Foreign Affairs, who retired in the autumn.
The lines taken by Finland and Sweden have been cautious in a similar manner. So far, the cartoons have not been published in either country.
Sweden and Denmark have both received large numbers of immigrants, but in Sweden, xenophobia has not raised its head like it has in Denmark. "Sweden has skilfully avoided these kinds of traps. There immigration thematics have not been politicised", says Pertti Joenniemi.

Moderation in relations with immigrants has also given Finland space in which to operate.
This might change, however, if the populist True Finns party manages to utilise the opportunity offered by the recent presidential elections to rise from the flyweight series to the status of a party that is to be taken seriously.
The internal divisions among Muslims in Finland, between the Tartars who have lived here for 100 years and the more recent immigrants, are becoming more apparent as well. Even here we will have to grow accustomed to hard-line Muslims who are not averse to publicity.

For the rest of the article, see here: http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Mr+Europe+I+presume/1135218760535

Helsingin Sanomat / First published in print 12.2.2006


And I don't know if you knew it but 4 jews were handed to Nazi Germany, fully knowing what would happen to them.

A few officials in the security police handed them over, without the knowledge of the government. Besides there were probably Jews among the 63 000 Soviet POW's in Finland as well, and some of those were sent to Germany because of the lack of resources to keep them in Finland, and the need of industrial labor in Germany (morally wrong of course, but i'm sure them having starved to death in Finland would have been a better option).

Those four jews are not representative at all however considered that the Finnish army even allowed field synagogas to be set up, etc. and that the Jewish community today considers Finland to have acted in a good way towards the Jews.

So what I get from this is that Finland is a pretty firm believer in the freedom of religion. I don't know about you but I find that pretty nice. Quite interesting since Finland was more or less created by the Swedish kingdom that invaded Finland and forced everyone to become Christian.

[Taekwondo]

Finland was after the war thanked by the Jewish world congress (or similar, don't know the correct translation for the Finnish word) for its correct and humane treatment of the Jews. During the war the jews were as everybody else doing all they could to keep the soviets out and not treated in any way different than before the war - good or bad.

Another example is that when the nazis started making demands about Finnish jews, the answer that ended the discussion for good was that Finland has no jewish problem.

So in retrospect it's clear that Finland behaved very correctly in the matter, no matter what some left wing revisionists want to claim. Sad that some people take these claims for real.

[Lurps]

This is all about the AMVs, for sure, spineless mothefackers.