Chinese PDW project

[REMOV]

http://www.chinaimg.com/imglib/china/land/qingwuqi/9mmChongfengqiang/001.jpg
http://www.chinaimg.com/imglib/china/land/qingwuqi/9mmChongfengqiang/002.jpg
I found it accidentally, looks like drawings of a new Chinese 9mm submachinegun with helical magazine (like in American Calico SMG or Russian Bison SMG), something like answer to the PDW program. Especially if you read the DAP92 in lower left corner - it is designation of short, 5,8mm pistol round (compare to HK MP7 4,6mm and FN P90 5,7mm).

Unfortunately I cannot read Chinese, so if any Chinese-speaking person can translate all the information at the second photo I'll be very grateful (the name?) ;)

http://secinfo.myetang.com/resorce/china/land/qinbq-4.jpg
5,8mm DAP92 pistol round...

http://www.civiliangunner.com/images/QSZ.jpg
http://www.civiliangunner.com/images/QSZ-laser.jpg
...used also in 5,8mm QSZ92 pistol

[fokket]

they look very unique and genuine ;)

[bluered12]

Unfortunately you have to register @ http://forum.china-defense.com to read the links and see the pictures. The china-defence forum doesn´t allow remote linking :( Perheps some registered users of CDF with own webspace can upload them for us.

An other new Chinese submachinegun:

http://forum.china-defense.com/index.php?showtopic=5833

You can see a picture of the "Bizon style" smg during testing at the bottom of this page:
http://forum.china-defense.com/index.php?showtopic=2064

[REMOV]

Unfortunately you have to register @ http://forum.china-defense.com to read the links and see the pictures. Thanks a lot, bluered12 :D

So, there is this SMG in action:
http://www.militech.sownet.gliwice.pl/inne/_Chinese%20PDW_01.jpg
Length: 398mm (with stock extended: 598mm)
Weight: 1900g
Muzzle velocity: 400m/s
Effective range: 150m
Magazine: 15 rds or 50 rds spiral magazine
Type of fire: single, burst, full-auto

[mustamato]

The first thing that comes to my mind is of course "wtf, no possibility to use
a Aimpoint/Trijicon-type of sight"? But then on the other hand, these weapons
are intended for rather close distances and for soldiers that doesn´t really are
supposed to get into firefights all too often. And in case it´s used by SWAT-
type of police officers, well it´s hard to miss at 15 meters anyway.

Interesting concept with a helical magazine on the top. Very interesting.

[exoninja]

Translation for the first and second paragraph:

The submachine gun is a short-barrel gun, which fires ammunitions same as handguns. In English, it is known as, "submachine gun", "machine carbine" etc...

From here we can see that the most interesting part is its great firepower, small size, which is great for short distance rush attacks.

We named this gun "chong feng qiang" (submachine gun), as it is what it is. Other types includes normal submachine gun, light-weight submachine gun and small-size submachine gun. Short barreled automatics and PDWs have also joined in the ranks of submachine guns.

2nd paragraph:
Our current military issue submachine gun is 7.62mm, especially the type 79 and type 85 which has always been well-received. However, the world today is mostly using 9mm for submachine guns.

In the recent "China Police Equipments Internation Exhibition", a new type of 9mm was introduced. With its unique design, it received quite a lot of attention.

[REMOV]

Translation for the first and second paragraphThanks a lot :D

Could you translate also the rest of the text?

[exoninja]

Sure here goes (was in rush that time):

3rd paragraph:
The 9mm lightweight submachine gun is mainly issued to police units and other special units. With semi-auto and full-auto, and an effective-range of 150metres, it's purpose is for individual defense.

4th para:
This new submachine has 2 very special areas: The design of the gun, and the ammo-feeding system.

5th para:
This new submachine gun, however, is not that short at all, with a length of 250cm. So how do we reduce the length? After serious research, we used the closed bolt like previous submachine guns, and designed a barrel outer-jacket (don't know if I'm right, it's a technical term) system. This design is the first of its kind and we've applied for a patent.

From the pictures, you can see that the barrel portion sticking out of the gun is very short, most of the barrel is inside the gun. This allows the gun and its barrel to move together. After designing it like this, the overall length of the gun is now 398cm. Compared to FN's P90 with an overall length of 500cm, barrel length 230cm; Germany's MP5K, overall length 325cm, barrel length 115; Israel's lightweight Uzi, overall length 360cm, barrel length 197cm.

6th para:
There is 2 ammo-feeding systems, one is the 50rounds rotating ....... (article cut off).

[REMOV]

There is 2 ammo-feeding systems, one is the 50rounds rotating ....... (article cut off).Damn, it is interrupted in such interesting moment. Regardles of it, again, thanks a lot, I owe you a beer (or juice if you're teetotaller :D ). I magage Polish, English, German and Russian, but Chinese is a really big problem ;)

One more question: do you know the name of 5,8mm pistol round? Or it case length?

[exoninja]

No idea on the 5,8mm thing, but I found the ammo-feeding stuff. It's in the specification box on the lower right on the 2nd pic.

2 feeding styles:
- 15 round double-stacked straight feed (normal pistol magazine I think).
- 50 rounds rotating tube.

This is what I think, I could be wrong:
Ammo can be fed by normal pistol mag sloted into the rear grip, or fed from the top of the gun. Something like a P90.

[cheukkin]

Yes you are right, the gun can feed both 15 round pistol mag and 50 rounds rotating tube on the top in same time, that mean total 65 rounds.

The pistol mag round will be auto feed when finishs the 50 round in rotating tube. I think this is good design. THanks!

No idea on the 5,8mm thing, but I found the ammo-feeding stuff. It's in the specification box on the lower right on the 2nd pic.

2 feeding styles:
- 15 round double-stacked straight feed (normal pistol magazine I think).
- 50 rounds rotating tube.

This is what I think, I could be wrong:
Ammo can be fed by normal pistol mag sloted into the rear grip, or fed from the top of the gun. Something like a P90.

[bluered12]

http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2800/2802.htm

More information

[ogukuo72]

Sure here goes (was in rush that time):

3rd paragraph:
The 9mm lightweight submachine gun is mainly issued to police units and other special units. With semi-auto and full-auto, and an effective-range of 150metres, it's purpose is for individual defense.

4th para:
This new submachine has 2 very special areas: The design of the gun, and the ammo-feeding system.

5th para:
This new submachine gun, however, is not that short at all, with a length of 250cm. So how do we reduce the length? After serious research, we used the closed bolt like previous submachine guns, and designed a barrel outer-jacket (don't know if I'm right, it's a technical term) system. This design is the first of its kind and we've applied for a patent.

From the pictures, you can see that the barrel portion sticking out of the gun is very short, most of the barrel is inside the gun. This allows the gun and its barrel to move together. After designing it like this, the overall length of the gun is now 398cm. Compared to FN's P90 with an overall length of 500cm, barrel length 230cm; Germany's MP5K, overall length 325cm, barrel length 115; Israel's lightweight Uzi, overall length 360cm, barrel length 197cm.

6th para:
There is 2 ammo-feeding systems, one is the 50rounds rotating ....... (article cut off).

The translation is quite good. There's only one error at the beginning of Para 5. It was referring to the barrel of the gun, not the gun itself.

Although we would classify this weapon as an SMG, the Chinese term used actually means "light assault rifle".

[Zentrum Jagdkampf]

Isn´t it better to use a bigger caliber for such short distances?

[REMOV]

Although we would classify this weapon as an SMG, the Chinese term used actually means "light assault rifle".Hmm...
http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2800/2802.htm
CFQ stands for the Chinese word CHONG-FENG-QIANG, which in English is simply translated "Submachinegun".

[bluered12]

found an article on the other new chinese smg. Can anyone please translate the article or give a short summary?
thx in advance.

http://img5.exs.cx/img5/7743/unknownchinesesubmachinegun.jpg
http://img5.exs.cx/img5/3271/unknownchinesesubmachinegunpart2.jpg
http://img5.exs.cx/img5/575/unknownchinesesubmachinegunpart3.jpg

btw There are two other guns using the DAP92:
Type 92 pocket pistol
http://img62.exs.cx/img62/1811/Type9258mm.jpg

According to sinodefence.com there is also a 5.8mm variant of the Type 85.

[Durandal]

Probably a good choice to replace the 7.62 × 25 mm (Type 51) pistol cartridge as the PDW caliber...

[ogukuo72]

Although we would classify this weapon as an SMG, the Chinese term used actually means "light assault rifle".Hmm...
http://www.securityarms.com/20010315/galleryfiles/2800/2802.htm
CFQ stands for the Chinese word CHONG-FENG-QIANG, which in English is simply translated "Submachinegun".

Trust me. My mom's a Chinese teacher! :D

CHONG-FENG means assault. QIANG means a gun. So, it's assault rifle.

[ThereTheyCome]

Why do Chinese guns look like friggin tinmetal POS trash piles?

Oh... maybe just because THEY ARE!?!?! Damn pinko commie unoriginal tools...

That 2nd SMG is such a poor copy of the MP5.... the ergonomics are all off... it sucks big time... look at the sight mounting location. It is a piece of trash...

[ogukuo72]

O, come on! They aren't that bad looking. :)

You can say that they are no less original than half-a-dozen other designs out there, such as the SAR-21, the TAR-21, the CR-21 ...

They certainly look better than some of the Russian designs from the 1990's.

[Durandal]

O, come on! They aren't that bad looking. :)

You can say that they are no less original than half-a-dozen other designs out there, such as the SAR-21, the TAR-21, the CR-21 ...

They certainly look better than some of the Russian designs from the 1990's.

Huh?