Kerry Will Abandon War on Terrorism

[Sixgun Symphony]

Posted March 1, 2004
By Kenneth R. Timmerman
Insight (http://www.insightmag.com/news/2004/03/16/Politics/Kerry.Will.Abandon.War.On.Terrorism-621288.shtml)

Sen. Kerry´s language has emboldened anti-American officials in Iran.


The Democratic Party's presidential front-runner, Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.), has pledged that if elected he will abandon the president's war on terror, begin a dialogue with terrorist regimes and apologize for three-and-one-half years of mistakes by the Bush administration.

In a sweeping foreign-policy address to the Council on Foreign Relations in December, Kerry called the U.S. war on terror as conceived and led by President George W. Bush "the most arrogant, inept, reckless and ideological foreign policy in modern history." Kerry's remarks were widely praised by journalists. The Associated Press headlined its report on his speech, "Kerry Vows to Repair Foreign Relations." The Knight Ridder news service noted that the new focus on foreign policy "plays to Kerry's strength." None of the major U.S. dailies found Kerry's unusually strident language at all inappropriate. "Kerry Vows to Change U.S. Foreign Policy; Senator Describes Steps He Would Take as President," the Washington Post headlined ponderously.

Presidential contenders have criticized sitting presidents in times of war before, but what's unique today is that "it has become the rule, not the exception," says Michael Franc, vice president for government relations at the Heritage Foundation. "With a few notable exceptions, you have almost the entire Democratic Party hierarchy that opposes what Bush is doing in the most vitriolic and emotional terms."

Heritage presidential historian Lee Edwards called it "not a foreign-policy analysis but a polemical speech, filled with inflammatory rhetoric that is disturbing and beyond the pale. What this suggests is that Mr. Kerry wants to take us back to President [Bill] Clinton and his U.N.-led multilateral policies."

Kerry promised to spend the first 100 days of his administration traveling the world to denounce his predecessor, apologize for his "radically wrong" policy, and seek "cooperation and compromise" with friend and foe alike. Borrowing language normally reserved to characterize "rogue" states, Kerry said he would "go to the United Nations and travel to our traditional allies to affirm that the United States has rejoined the community of nations."

Perhaps frustrated that his radical departure from the war on terror was not getting much attention in the trenches of Democratic Party politics, Kerry ordered his campaign to mobilize grass-roots supporters to spread the word. In one e-mail message, obtained by Insight and confirmed as authentic by the Kerry camp, the senator's advisers enlisted overseas Democrats to launch a letter-writing and op-ed campaign denouncing the Bush foreign-policy record.

"'It is in the urgent interests of the people of the United States to restore our country's credibility in the eyes of the world," the message states. "America needs the kind of leadership that will repair alliances with countries on every continent that have been so damaged in the past few years, as well as build new friendships and overcome tensions with others."

The e-mail succeeded beyond the wildest dream of Kerry's handlers - at least, so they tell Insight. It was immediately picked up by the Mehr news agency in Tehran, and appeared the next day on the front page of a leading hard-line daily there.

"I have no idea how they got hold of that letter, which was prepared for Democrats Abroad," Kerry's top foreign-policy aide, Rand Beers, tells Insight. "I scratched my head when I saw that. The only way they could have gotten it was if someone in Iran was with Democrats Abroad."

The hard-line, anti-American Tehran Times published the entire text of the seven-paragraph e-mail under a triumphant headline announcing that Kerry pledged to "repair damage if he wins election." By claiming that the Kerry campaign had sent the message directly to an Iranian news agency in Tehran, the paper indicated that the e-mail was a demonstration of Kerry's support for a murderous regime that even today tops the State Department's list of supporters of international terrorism.

According to dissident Ayatollah Mehdi Haeri, who fled Iran for Germany after being held for four years in a regime prison, Iran's hard-line clerics "fear President Bush." In an interview with Insight, Haeri says that President Bush's messages of support to pro-democracy forces inside Iran and his insistence that the Iranian regime abandon its nuclear-weapons program "have given these people the shivers. They think that if Bush is re-elected, they'll be gone. That's why they want to see Kerry elected."

The latest Bush message, released on Feb. 24, commented on the widely boycotted Iranian parliamentary elections that took place the week before. "I am very disappointed in the recently disputed parliamentary elections in Iran," President Bush said. "The disqualification of some 2,400 candidates by the unelected Guardian Council deprived many Iranians of the opportunity to freely choose their representatives. I join many in Iran and around the world in condemning the Iranian regime's efforts to stifle freedom of speech, including the closing of two leading reformist newspapers in the run-up to the election. Such measures undermine the rule of law and are clear attempts to deny the Iranian people's desire to freely choose their leaders. The United States supports the Iranian people's aspiration to live in freedom, enjoy their God-given rights and determine their own destiny."

The Kerry campaign released no statement on the widely discredited Iranian elections, reinforcing allegations from pro-democracy Iranian exiles in America that the junior senator from Massachusetts is working hand-in-glove with pro-regime advocates in the United States.

Kerry foreign-policy aide Beers tried to nuance the impression that Kerry was willing to seek new ties with the Tehran regime and forgive the Islamic republic for 25 years of terror that began by taking U.S. diplomats hostage in Tehran in 1979 and continues to this day with Iran's overt support and harboring of top al-Qaeda operatives. Just the day before the e-mail message was sent to the Mehr news agency, Beers told a foreign-policy forum in Washington that Kerry "is not saying that he is looking for better relations with Iran. He is looking for a dialogue with Iran. There are some issues on which we really need to sit down with the Iranians."

The word "dialogue" immediately gives comfort to hard-liners, says Ayatollah Haeri. While Beer's comments went unnoticed by the U.S. press, they were prominently featured by the official Islamic Republic News Agency in a Feb. 7 dispatch from Washington.

In an interview with Insight, Beers went even further. "We are prepared to talk to the Iranian government" of hard-line, anti-American clerics, he insisted. "While we realize we have major differences, there are areas that could form the basis for cooperation, such as working together to stop drug production in Afghanistan."

Beers has a special history in Washington. A longtime National Security Council aide who served President Clinton and was carried over by the Bush White House, he resigned as the war in Iraq began in March 2003. Just weeks later, he volunteered for the Kerry campaign. The Washington Post heralded him in a profile as "a lifelong bureaucrat" who was an "unlikely insurgent." Yet the Post acknowledged that he was a "registered Democrat" who by resigning at such a critical moment was "not just declaring that he's a Democrat. He's declaring that he's a Kerry Democrat, and the way he wants to make a difference in the world is to get his former boss [Bush] out of office."

Talking to Insight, Beers compares Kerry's proposal to begin talks with Iran to the senator's earlier advocacy of renewing relations with Vietnam after the Vietnam War: "No expectations, eyes wide open."

With Iran, which is known to be harboring top al-Qaeda operatives, Beers says "there is no way to have a deal without having the hard-liners as part of the dialogue. We are prepared to talk to the hard-line element" as part of an overall political dialogue with the Iranian regime.

The Kerry policy of seeking an accommodation with the regime is not new, says Patrick Clawson, the deputy director of the Washington Institute for Near East Policy who has been tracking Iran policy for two decades. "Kerry's approach is that of many in Europe who think you must entice rogue regimes. Enticement only works if it is followed up with the notion that there would be a penalty if they didn't behave. I see nothing of that in Sen. Kerry's statements."

For Aryo Pirouznia, who chairs the Student Movement Coordination Committee for Democracy in Iran, Kerry's offer to negotiate with hard-liners in the regime smacks of lunacy. "America is incredibly popular with the Iranian masses, so this is a grave mistake for a short-term benefit," Pirouznia says. "To the regime, this sends a message that America is willing to make a deal despite the blood of Americans who were murdered in Dhahran [Saudi Arabia] and are being killed today in Iraq by so-called foreign elements. And to Iranians, it shows that the old establishment may be back in power, a return to the Carter era."

Pirouznia's Texas-based support group, which worked closely with protesting students during the July 1999 uprising in Tehran, sent an open letter to Kerry on Feb. 19 noting that "millions of dollars" had been raised for the Democratic Party by Iranian-American political-action committees and fund-raisers with ties to the Tehran regime. "By sending such a message directly to the organs and the megaphones of the dictatorial Islamic regime, you have given them credibility, comfort and embraced this odious theocracy," Pirouznia says. "You have encouraged and emboldened a tyrannical regime to use this as propaganda and declare 'open season' on the freedom fighters in Iran."

Kenneth R. Timmerman is a senior writer for Insight.

[Elmo]

"'It is in the urgent interests of the people of the United States to restore our country's credibility in the eyes of the world," the message states. "America needs the kind of leadership that will repair alliances with countries on every continent that have been so damaged in the past few years, as well as build new friendships and overcome tensions with others."


Thumbs up for Kerry! Only 9 months to go!

[Sixgun Symphony]

Our European "allies" Love John Kerry because they wish for the US to give in to adopt appeasement policies with the Islamic terrorists.

I think we should start pointing our nukes at European cities.

[HELEX]

@Sixgun Symphony

Weapons of mass destruction, links to al quaida, this war is not about Oil, Yada yada yada... :lol:

[Argyll]

Watching closely!! ;)

[littlefrench]

Our European "allies" Love John Kerry because they wish for the US to give in to adopt appeasement policies with the Islamic terrorists.

I think we should start pointing our nukes at European cities.

afflicting.

[usa320]

I think aiming nukes at Europe is absurd.

But i think


begin a dialogue with terrorist regimes

IS EVEN MORE ABSURD.

There are no negotiations with people who are willing to kill themselves to kill you.

You just have to kill them first.

I hope the news reports this alot, because while some Americans might not like Bush, far more would not like the idea of having tea with tangos.

If Kerry gets elected WE WILL get hit by another terrorist attack.

We should ahve learned our lesson already that ignoring terrorism as clinton did only puts peoples lives in danger.

Now kerry wants to revert back to that very ignorance that put us in this mess.

[fdt]

Hmmm interesting twist in attitudes... It has always been a Republican who promoted isolationism and USA non engagement outside the Americas. :roll: Now it's Kerry who wants to bring the boys back home... Huh, why not let the Saddam go back to Baghdad? He could ease US Army of it's hard duties there at once... Boys would be back to Yankee within a month... Clean, effective, swift and elegant solution which would please whole of the World. Chirac, Putin and Schroder would welcome that. Just like in Vietnam...

[OldRecon]

Incidentaly one of the elements that has been leading up to the "relative peace" between the two main communities of Northern Ireland at present, is that many of the hardliners of those communities were stuck together in the same prisons and thus couldn't avoid each other, even if held in different blocks.
Admittedly many deals through that contact have been somewhat shady. Like when Andy Tyrrie employed the help of IRA to get rid of another prot. rival (but I guess it's sort of a start anyway).
As the village grows more and more global, the oportunities for use of military might as a political tool shrinks.
On the other hand in the future world I think there will be no place for wild tribes in the Amazon, and culture will grow more uniform and dull.
So I guess the final choice will either be war and pain or prosperity, peace and boredom.

[martinexsquaddie]

maybe but Personally binning the whole war on terror thing is a good properganda tool.
being a bit more quiet and reservered in public and letting the spooks get on with its probably a better plan than "bring it on "

[Argyll]

I think aiming nukes at Europe is absurd.

But i think


begin a dialogue with terrorist regimes

IS EVEN MORE ABSURD.

There are no negotiations with people who are willing to kill themselves to kill you.

You just have to kill them first.

I hope the news reports this alot, because while some Americans might not like Bush, far more would not like the idea of having tea with tangos.

If Kerry gets elected WE WILL get hit by another terrorist attack.

We should ahve learned our lesson already that ignoring terrorism as clinton did only puts peoples lives in danger.

Now kerry wants to revert back to that very ignorance that put us in this mess.

He's only doing what many Presidents have done before,to blame kerry for a future attack on the USA is absurd

Who was the President who ignored the Intelligence threats that an attack was imminent?...........here's a clue ........he comes from Texas !!

[Schwabo Elite]

Forgive me, but where do I have to put the "Insight" and this article's author?

More like: intelligent man or more like Six-Guns friend??

Btw: talking to terroristic regimes isn't a bad idea as long as you watch your 6. Most people seem to forget that regime means government of a country and that means they rule people. Maybe some people here will learn that bombing innocents doesn't stop terrorism, but makes it stronger and that since the invasion of Iraq over 19,000 Iraqis have been killed, but there is no evidence yet, that the US government was right with its hypothesis that Saddam was allied to Al Qaida.

Bin Laden has achieved one of his major goals. The US foreign policy has distanced America from all major allies, especially those in Europe and the current president is nationwide and internationally seen as a comic figure... :|
Thank God the lower levels of international relations respond to slow to get damaged by the actions of Bush.

SE

[fdt]

Bin Laden has achieved one of his major goals. The US foreign policy has distanced America from all major allies, especially those in Europe and the current president is nationwide and internationally seen as a comic figure... :|
Thank God the lower levels of international relations respond to slow to get damaged by the actions of Bush.

SE Pls don't forget to add Chirac and Schroder to the list of "great contemporary statesmen". His Napoleonic Majesty doesn't need to bomb anyone to be mentioned as a "devilish scum" in Al-Zawahiri's (Osamas hehchman) adress to the "infidels" last week. He only banned the islamic dresses in schools... and got the same effect as Bush after loosing 2 towers, 2500 civilians and circa 600 troops... What efficiency! One bill instead of sending the troops = the same amount of hatred received.

[HooyahCQB]

No no no no no no no! Trying to negotiate with terrorists shouldn't even BE an idea. What Bin Laden wants is what we cannot give him. They want the US DEAD. They don't want freedom or land, they want people DEAD. Terrorists don't give a crap about other people's freedoms...

Another statement. I know i've been guilty of bashing the French too (and i'm sorry). I'd just like to say that I know that not everybody in France agrees with their government and have seen lots of letters of people who say such things. I don't mind the French as long as they don't mind me

On to Kerry: I just lost any respect left for him after reading this post. We may appease some people by reverting back to isolationists, but this is asking to be bombed. I don't even think he'll react with force if we do.

:bash:

[Kilgor]

What efficiency! One bill instead of sending the troops = the same amount of hatred received.

Yeap!

France was once favoured in the Arab world. With one bill, now they are on the Islamic "**** list"

[Kitsune]

Bushs "war on terror" is absolutely stupid. Terrorism is like organised crime, and the US have not managed to destroy the South American drug cartels either with their "war against drugs". And if they are not able to do this in their backyard, why should they be more successful in the fight against international terrorism?

Bush or Kerry? Depends...if you want to heighten the chances that America goes down, vote Bush. The way he spends Americas money with both hands while alienating the rest of the world, the way he makes war on middle eastern countries to destroy non existing weapons, to fight their support of terrorism by turning them into hotbeds of terrorism, thats just the way to do it. His new plans seem to include to build space weapons to degrade enemy satellite systems that do not even exist, or space defense systems, that protect American space assets from space weapons no one has. And to go to Moon and Mars at the same time. And, of course, lower taxes while paying for all this...:roll:
Until the US is worn out.

If the trend that stupidity reigns in America increases further, probably one day they make sixgun symphony their president. He will start a nuclear war with Europe ("the new enemy") in no time. That will be a day when islamic fundamentalists and chinese will have something to laugh...western civilisation destroying itself without any reason.

[Haiw]

Bushs "war on terror" is absolutely stupid. Terrorism is like organised crime, and the US have not managed to destroy the South American drug cartels either with their "war against drugs". And if they are not able to do this in their backyard, why should they be more successful in the fight against international terrorism?

Bush or Kerry? Depends...if you want to heighten the chances that America goes down, vote Bush. The way he spends Americas money with both hands while alienating the rest of the world, the way he makes war on middle eastern countries to destroy non existing weapons, to fight their support of terrorism by turning them into hotbeds of terrorism, thats just the way to do it. His new plans seem to include to build space weapons to degrade enemy satellite systems that do not even exist, or space defense systems, that protect American space assets from space weapons no one has. And to go to Moon and Mars at the same time. And, of course, lower taxes while paying for all this...:roll:
Until the US is worn out.

If the trend that stupidity reigns in America increases further, probably one day they make sixgun symphony their president. He will start a nuclear war with Europe ("the new enemy") in no time. That will be a day when islamic fundamentalists and chinese will have something to laugh...western civilisation destroying itself without any reason.
Amen. They must be laughing themselves silly how 'allies' are ripping on each other all the time right now. Any info on the reliability of the article? I mean, I wouldn't exactely be flabbergasted if it was just another jackass editorial.

Oh and what's so special about 'negotiating with terrorist regimes'. Has been done all along... the old Iraq, Saudi-Arabia...Pakistan...the list goes on. Wouldn't exactely be a change of policy.

[HELEX]

@HooyahCQB

You can´t defend Terrorism by invading a country. The Terrorist brewing 500kg AMNO in his Garage in a small american Town dont cares about Operation "give me the black Gold" in Iraq.
Mister "Anthrax Mail" is´nt concerned too...
The Aum Cult in Japan produced its own Sarin inside the country, why shouldnt it be possible in the States?

btw.: The text about Kerry was written by a republican Propaganda Author, so do you seriosly believe it???

[marktigger]

I'm glad I'm not having to pick a candidate let alone a president from the people I see on the TV. Neither of them would get my vote If they were running in the constituency I live in but then we would have 2-3 more options. Maybe thats what you need a few more parties to make them work really hard to get elected.

[Sixgun Symphony]

No no no no no no no! Trying to negotiate with terrorists shouldn't even BE an idea. What Bin Laden wants is what we cannot give him. They want the US DEAD.

Even so, our so called "allies" would rather have that than to have the US to fight and win a war against Islamic terrorism.

Hmmph! someone mentioned that we would be ripping Western Civilization apart. I would point out the low European birth rate and their insane immigration policies has already destroyed the future of Western Civilization in much of Europe. Their future is Islam.

[Sixgun Symphony]

but there is no evidence yet, that the US government was right with its hypothesis that Saddam was allied to Al Qaida.

The US foreign policy has distanced America from all major allies, especially those in Europe and the current president is nationwide and internationally seen as a comic figure... :|


Saddam was supporting many other Islamic and Pan-Arab nationalist terrorist organizations. Abu Nidal was a guest of Saddam before he was killed by his own thugs. Abu Abbas was captured by US forces in Baghdad. Then of course, Saddam was making a big show out of giving money to the Hamas suicide bombers.

US foriegn policy has distanced itself from Europe? You don't realize how much you people have distanced yourselves from the USA. We are not going to appease terrorists like the decadent and weak French, Germans, and other Europeans. It is natural for the euro-socialists to roll over and "punk out", but Americans are a proud people and we will not do that.

I can tell you that Iran, Syria, Libya, and other muslim countries do not see Bush as a comic figure.

[ArmedPacifist]

Sixgun, get off the drugs.

[SEALInTheMaking]

God I hope we reelect Bush. Kerry is an idiot, pure and simple. If he's elected, then the sacrafice of all the men and women who died in the War of Terror will be for nothing. The Taliban will rebuild itself and put Afganistan in a strangle hold again. Al Qaida will launch more attacks against the US, and unless the UN gets off their asses, Iraq will undoubtably wind up with another dictator. I personally cannot stand the idea of Kerry being elected.

[Kitsune]

Sixgun...may I remind you that back in the sixties, there was no demographic difference between Europe and the States? It only appeared from the 80ties onwards.

Demographic predictions change: in the 70ties for example demographs prognosed 20 billion people for the year 2100! And predicted an enormous catastrophe because of overpopulation during the 21st century!
But then the birthrate increase declined in nearly all countries of the world...todays predictions estimate only 11 billion people for the year 2100, some even less.

And what do we learn from it? Do NOT trust demographic predictions of a too far future. They are nearly invariably wrong !
In fact it is quite likely, that the birthrates in the US will also go down over the next decades, because the same laws of nature rule over both. Even today the difference between the European demographics and those of WHITE Americans aren't very different.
Those "fecundant" Americans, who keep your birthrates up, are the Hispanics.

The future of the USA is to become a part of Latin America. Whites will be a minority, as it is already the case in califormia. I hope you're a catholic. And you should learn Spanish, just to be prepared.

Vaja con dios! ;)

[Jack Mehoff]

Sixgun...may I remind you that back in the sixties, there was no demographic difference between Europe and the States? It only appeared from the 80ties onwards.

Demographic predictions change: in the 70ties for example demographs prognosed 20 billion people for the year 2100! And predicted an enormous catastrophe because of overpopulation during the 21st century!
But then the birthrate increase declined in nearly all countries of the world...todays predictions estimate only 11 billion people for the year 2100, some even less.

And what do we learn from it? Do NOT trust demographic predictions of a too far future. They are nearly invariably wrong !
In fact it is quite likely, that the birthrates in the US will also go down over the next decades, because the same laws of nature rule over both. Even today the difference between the European demographics and those of WHITE Americans aren't very different.
Those "fecundant" Americans, who keep your birthrates up, are the Hispanics.

The future of the USA is to become a part of Latin America. Whites will be a minority, as it is already the case in califormia. I hope you're a catholic. And you should learn Spanish, just to be prepared.

Vaja con dios! ;)

Half of United States territory has alway been Spanish and Catholic even before George Washington was born. Beside, U.S. is a country of immigrants and Europe isn't. I still don't see your point.

[Sierra]

OMG!!! Figures. Why abandon war on terror? So we can be attacked more? I really hope Bush stys in office!!!
Kerry :-*$

[Sixgun Symphony]

Half of United States territory has alway been Spanish and Catholic even before George Washington was born. Beside, U.S. is a country of immigrants and Europe isn't. I still don't see your point.

Actually, it was not part of the US back in them days. It was Mexico.

Texas was underpopulated and they let in American settlers. Things were going smooth until Santa Anna started messing things up and the "Texicans" decided to become independant. I am sure you know something about the battle of the Alamo.

Later on the US and Mexico fought a war. We won and took alot of land. Now they have this "reconquista" going and it might work.

[Rakki]

You don't need to invade countries in order to fight terrorism - you can apply pressure in a multitude of ways - freeze their bank accounts, stop people doing business with them, interdict their ships sending "interesting" cargo around the world and making a stand on specific issues.

If Kerry gets elected president, look forward to a period of "peace and stability" - where the State Department kisses ass all around the world and bends over to avoid conflict.

[Sixgun Symphony]

Some countries are sponsers of terrorism. That is why we need the regime changes there.

This european fondness for ass-kissing reminds me of the American war with the Barbary Pirates (modern day Libya).

The Europeans would always pay tribute to the Barbary Pirates so as to keep them from attacking their shipping. These muslim pirates were starting to attack American merchant ships. We told them to stop and they demanded tribute, the same kind of tribute that they were used to getting from the Europeans.

The policy of the United States was "Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute!"

So we sent our marines over to the Shores of Tripoli and effected a regime change. We stopped having problems with the Barbary pirates.

Now I see that history is repeating itself. The Euro-weenies want for the US to appease and pay tribute to the mohammedian terrorists...

[Sixgun Symphony]

More information here...

U. S. has fought Islamic terrorism before - The Barbary Pirates
(http://www.zianet.com/wblase/endtimes/barbary.htm)

[ArmedPacifist]

More information here...

U. S. has fought Islamic terrorism before - The Barbary Pirates
(http://www.zianet.com/wblase/endtimes/barbary.htm)

Using that arguement that would make Americans terrorists as well because of the piracy they engaged in during the revolutionary war.

Don't compare apples and oranges.

[Sayeret]

Man if this isn't a joke John Kerry is a complete idiot. If he wants to begin a dialogue with terrorist regimes he's only asking for trouble. The Al Qaeda will celebrate if Kerry becomes President because George W. Bush is their worst nightmare. Bush has gone to war in Afghanistan and Iraq and made allies search for terrorists in their own countries. If Kerry becomes president in 2004, terrorist attacks as bad or worse than September 11th are going to take base over and over again. Kerry needs to stop acting like a little kid believing that the Al Qaeda and the other terrrorist groups will act like reasonable people talking their problems with the US. I mean at the most this guy is going to shoot a few cruise missiles at some empty base in Africa. I doubt that the Al Qaeda would even try to kill Kerry if they got the chance because they're going to love this guy.

[Sixgun Symphony]

More information here...

U. S. has fought Islamic terrorism before - The Barbary Pirates
(http://www.zianet.com/wblase/endtimes/barbary.htm)

Using that arguement that would make Americans terrorists as well because of the piracy they engaged in during the revolutionary war.

Don't compare apples and oranges.

You are confusing lawful privateers with pirates.

[Rakki]

War doesn't determine who's right, only who's left - and if you aren't the last ones standing, it doesn't really matter how right you are!

And if some psyco suicide bomber does get his hands on a WMD (it's bound to happen eventually), there will be nobody left to quibble about the rights and wrongs.

[usa320]

My final comment on this thread is one of "hey ****tards, if you dont live in American, why bother arguing?"

god damnit...

I dont see Americans arguing amongst themselves about Belgian politics for **** sake.

Why the hell do Europeans argue more about American politics than Americans do?

****...

[ArmedPacifist]

More information here...

U. S. has fought Islamic terrorism before - The Barbary Pirates
(http://www.zianet.com/wblase/endtimes/barbary.htm)

Using that arguement that would make Americans terrorists as well because of the piracy they engaged in during the revolutionary war.

Don't compare apples and oranges.

You are confusing lawful privateers with illegal pirates.

You just made my point, thank you. From one perspective, a person is a lawful privateer and from another perspective an illegal pirate. The same model can me applied today in terms of countries and/or world leaders.

[mustamato]

I hope this is true and that Kerry becoms president. I think it would make for
a safer world, and a safer USA as well. This "we must hit first"-BS only creates
more terrorists when they get their fathers and friends killed. And it´s not exactly
a unkown phenomena that pressure from the outside means uniting on the inside.


My final comment on this thread is one of "hey f***, if you dont live in American, why bother arguing?"

In case you didn´t notive US was involved in conflicts all the time during the
20th century, and they still are during the new one. And when was the last
time US was invaded, by Mexico 200 years ago? Why shouldn´t the rest of the
world care, it´s them US is fighting, it´s them that are dying.

[Kilgor]

Im amazed Europe still thinks appeasement can work, especially after the lessions learned from Hitler.


In case you didn´t notive US was involved in conflicts all the time during the
20th century, and they still are during the new one.

Yeah.. saving your sorry ungrateful asses from Hitler and communism.

[SR15]

we didnt HIT FIRST !!!!! you stupid ass
guess where I live? thats rigth in NYC. I have seen how WE got hit FIRST.
now its time to pay.
if we leave job not finished , we will have to do this all over again later.
you cant talk with terrorists, its we or they.

[Rakki]

Look at North Korea. The US couldn't finish sorting the problem out there and they've got Dear Leader Kim still running the show. It should be interesting to see what Europe would be like if it was still under the Third Reich and being run by Adolft Hitler Jnr.

Alternatively, there would be no NATO, no EU, and just one big ass USSR.

[mustamato]

we didnt HIT FIRST !!!!! you stupid ass
guess where I live? thats rigth in NYC. I have seen how WE got hit FIRST.
now its time to pay.
if we leave job not finished , we will have to do this all over again later.
you cant talk with terrorists, its we or they.

If you seriously mean that there was nothing before 11/9 2001 then you
are a funny boy. Probably not that old either. Because I can without any
problems remember that even during Clinton taliban camps in Afghanistan
was attacked etc.

[Kilgor]

Look at North Korea. The US couldn't finish sorting the problem out there and they've got Dear Leader Kim still running the show. .

How would the Euromasters solve this politically delicate case ???!

[SR15]

we didnt HIT FIRST !!!!! you stupid ass
guess where I live? thats rigth in NYC. I have seen how WE got hit FIRST.
now its time to pay.
if we leave job not finished , we will have to do this all over again later.
you cant talk with terrorists, its we or they.

If you seriously mean that there was nothing before 11/9 2001 then you
are a funny boy. Probably not that old either. Because I can without any
problems remember that even during Clinton taliban camps in Afghanistan
was attacked etc.
it wasnt war, it was BS.
Clinton had chanse to get Osama, but he got B/J from Monica
btw, there was terrorists attaks on us in Clinton time.

[ArmedPacifist]

Look at North Korea. The US couldn't finish sorting the problem out there and they've got Dear Leader Kim still running the show. It should be interesting to see what Europe would be like if it was still under the Third Reich and being run by Adolft Hitler Jnr.

Alternatively, there would be no NATO, no EU, and just one big ass USSR.

Well, how could their be the USSR and the third reich in Europe still existing today?

Being that they were at war.....Look I realize your only 13 years old but that's no excuse for bad history knowledge.

[Rakki]

Go look up the meaning of the word "Alternatively".

I knew what that word meant in elementary school ... but if you haven't graduated from there, I'm willing to excuse your smartass behavior.

[SOG]

Who was the President who ignored the Intelligence threats that an attack was imminent?...........here's a clue ........he comes from Texas !!

thats interesting considering this is the same intelligence that cried wmd. what would you believe? didnt listen to intelligence, 911, did listen to intelligence, no wmd. damn, damned if you do and damned if you dont? im confused argyll, please explain to me the outstanding figures and intelligence you recieved over the president to make any of these assessments and critisize the president?

oh thats right! you have piece-meal evidence put together by third party news reporting from hundreds of different sources and people, put together for media production and monentary consumption eaching preaching thier own views and spins above the rest. im so glad you cleared up your fact finding evidence sources. cough cough.

[Haiw]

So much for the new forum rules eh Sixgun?

When filtering trough all the 'bending over's and 'Eurowussies' you're basically saying Europe (especially France and Germany) are willing to appease Islamic terrorism and let it take over while the USA is the allmighty saviour who is the only one who's up to the task.

Get away from that rock man. You've been living under it for too long. If you have forgotten, like at least half of Europe's countries participated in Afghanistan. Especially Germany does their part in a LOT of different places in the world that you don't even have any idea of. France is responsible for trying to keep peace in some place that could otherwise turn into 'terrorist hotbeds' as well. I could go on about most European countries like this.

But no... when we don't support a war in Iraq that isn't about terrorism at all we're all of a sudden... terrorist appeasers off course how brilliant! Isn't life easy when you can put everyone in their own little box. :roll:

[marktigger]

considering the Backing that America has given to Terrorist orginisations that have been carrying out attacks in Europe against one of her 'Allies' a country that has conrtibuted to your half baked adventures in Afganistan and Iraq. I think some of the Americans need to take a little look at recent history and the appeasment of terrorist orginisations at the Insistance of of the White house.
We in Northern Ireland Have watched for the last 30 years soldiers and policemen killed by arms payed for by americans yes not just Libya supplied arms to the IRA. Sein Feins stratagey 'an ARMALITE in one hand a Ballot box in the other' things like M60 machine guns being used on the streets of Belfast. The Police service in Northern Ireland Denied weapons by US govts, Denied access to the FBI training centre, Kept out of international policing orginisations by US police departments with Human Rights abuse records that make the accusations they made against the RUC laughable. The Mcbride princples designed to prevent Northern Ireland companies competing in America. Then the good friday agreement were he US president phoned the leader of the Ulster Unionist party to pressureize him into accepting appeasment of Terrorists. Then the Feteing of Gerry Adams and Martin McGuniess as if they were the greatest peacemakers on the Planet both Terrorists!!!!!! So the US government has effectivly said appeasing terrorists is OK.
9-11 was a terrible atrocity and the response to Al-queda I think has been correct unlike Clinton who basically said America is weak by using Token counter attacks. The Bombings of your Embassies was one of the turning points that lead to 9-11 and the pathetic response probably made Bin Laden think he could win.
But you are not the only country who has had to deal with terrorism in fact we British have been doing it constantly since WW2. And our military have forgoten more collectivly about it than the US has learnt hence the reason Iraq in your sector is going **** up.
Ordinary Muslims and Islam are not the Problem it is the extremists who are and by alienating the moderates which appears to be happening in Iraq you playinto the hands of the extremists and give them recruits and credibility.
When you Invaded both Iraq and Afganistan your government made very little preparation for the Long term future of thease countries and their people infact you appear to want to get out and leave vacuums behind you. Well Vacuums are very dangerous things because the best equipped people to step into them are extremists as moderates take time to sort them selves out.
The Germans filled in alot of the gaps when you pulled troops out of Afganistan to go to Iraq. And look at the forces who are working in Afganistan and Iraq.
The reason that you received little backing over Iraq is now comming out in the UK if you had stood up and said right regeime change, human rights, possibly a hint of WMD America might have brough more Europeans on board. Now next time I think the Blair Govt won't contribute either having had its fingers severly burnt over Iraq.

[Jack Mehoff]

Who was the President who ignored the Intelligence threats that an attack was imminent?...........here's a clue ........he comes from Texas !!

thats interesting considering this is the same intelligence that cried wmd. what would you believe? didnt listen to intelligence, 911, did listen to intelligence, no wmd. damn, damned if you do and damned if you dont? im confused argyll, please explain to me the outstanding figures and intelligence you recieved over the president to make any of these assessments and critisize the president?

oh thats right! you have piece-meal evidence put together by third party news reporting from hundreds of different sources and people, put together for media production and monentary consumption eaching preaching thier own views and spins above the rest. im so glad you cleared up your fact finding evidence sources. cough cough.

People still going to bitch and whine about United States regardless of what we do. We're like a policeman, some people hate us and some people love us.

[Shadow]

No no no no no no no! Trying to negotiate with terrorists shouldn't even BE an idea. What Bin Laden wants is what we cannot give him. They want the US DEAD.

Even so, our so called "allies" would rather have that than to have the US to fight and win a war against Islamic terrorism.

Hmmph! someone mentioned that we would be ripping Western Civilization apart. I would point out the low European birth rate and their insane immigration policies has already destroyed the future of Western Civilization in much of Europe. Their future is Islam.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :cantbeli: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :slap: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash:

ROFPP
Rolling on Flour pissing pants.

[HELEX]

Jack Mehoff


People still going to bitch and whine about United States regardless of what we do. We're like a policeman, some people hate us and some people love us.


Definitivly not! US are like the strongest Punk in the School, everybody hates you but some are licking your Shoes... :roll:

[-=TFN=-Karab]

Kerry is such a dumbass. I hope he doesn't get elected and I'm quite sure that he won't. He sucks as a leader, period. He couldn't even do well in his own state. I hope the Electoral College sees him as "an idiot" too.

[HELEX]

SR15 wrote:


we didnt HIT FIRST !!!!! you stupid ass
guess where I live? thats rigth in NYC. I have seen how WE got hit FIRST.
now its time to pay.
if we leave job not finished , we will have to do this all over again later.
you cant talk with terrorists, its we or they.

Did the Iraq attack the US at any time or in any way? How stupid are you really? :|

[Jack Mehoff]

Jack Mehoff


People still going to bitch and whine about United States regardless of what we do. We're like a policeman, some people hate us and some people love us.


Definitivly not! US are like the strongest Punk in the School, everybody hates you but some are licking your Shoes... :roll:

Yeah, like how when a country is in trouble they alway dial 911 to United States instead of the UN for help.

I want U.S. armed forces to withdraw from Middle East, ROK, Japan, etc. and watch everybody begging for us to come back. Just like I would do if all policemen in my town resign.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

I want U.S. armed forces to withdraw from Middle East, ROK, Japan, etc. and watch everybody begging for us to come back. Just like I would do if all policemen in my town resign.
I don't think many of the natives in Iraq would beg for the return of the US and coalition forces, though more than a few oil companies would beg and maybe give lots of money to the President that sent troops back into Iraq. The Saudis would host US forces quicker than a hillbilly's heartbeat if they thought that their noisy kin next door was getting all uncontrolable and scary or worse a fundamentalist ****e state, the US and her allies would oblige them no doubt.

[Argyll]

Who was the President who ignored the Intelligence threats that an attack was imminent?...........here's a clue ........he comes from Texas !!

thats interesting considering this is the same intelligence that cried wmd. what would you believe? didnt listen to intelligence, 911, did listen to intelligence, no wmd. damn, damned if you do and damned if you dont? im confused argyll, please explain to me the outstanding figures and intelligence you recieved over the president to make any of these assessments and critisize the president?

oh thats right! you have piece-meal evidence put together by third party news reporting from hundreds of different sources and people, put together for media production and monentary consumption eaching preaching thier own views and spins above the rest. im so glad you cleared up your fact finding evidence sources. cough cough.

No mate,the FBI informed the CIA who told the Senate that there were known Terrorists in the USA but they just didn't know where,they also reported the likelyhood of a major attack,this did not come from 3rd Part news it came from the Agencies themselves.

But are you telling me that this did not happen ,are you in the Intelligence Community?I'm not either,but they did not invent these stories,every rumour has an air of truth around it,tell you whatt SOG you prove to me it was not reported to the Senate,and to the CIA,and I'll retract what I said!

[Sixgun Symphony]

Definitivly not! US are like the strongest Punk in the School, everybody hates you but some are licking your Shoes... :roll:


This kind of posts exemplefies what I am talking about. A certain Brit moderator does not see anything wrong with these flames directed at Americans, but he will get his panties in a wad if I or any other American should fire back with our own flames.

[HELEX]

@Jack Mehoff

Ok, then tell me: 1 Country calling for the USA where they not invited themself... :lol:

[Sixgun Symphony]

Helex,

I remember the French government and alot of the other Euro's asking US to go into Bosnia and Kosovo.

[Argyll]

Thats's a personal attack Six Gun,and I take exception to it,I was just about to remind all the posters in this forum that Bashing other countries has to stop.


I never bashed or complained,I asked who the President was when Intelligence from the USA said there were Terrorist Cells in the US and that they were planning something big,it was a direct question,it has nothing to do with bashing.

I support the USA's war on terror and always have!

2ndly I along with other here are getting sick and tired of your constant Extreme Right Wing, Anti European Views Anti Islamic rants.


This is your Last warning!!!!!!!!

[HELEX]

Kosovo was a big NATO Operation, even the German Airforce took part in the SEAD Role. Ground forces are NATO too....

No Point.

[Sixgun Symphony]

Thats's a personal attack Six Gun,and I take exception to it,I was just about to remind all the posters in this forum that Bashing other countries has to stop.
[/color][/size]


I see that you are very tolerant of the extreme Left wing, anti-American bashing here.

My anti-left, anti-European bashing has been a reaction to the hard-left, anti-American B/S.

[Argyll]

Nope,that person has also had a warning issued as well!

If it keeps up I'll lock the thread and delete posts!

[Jack Mehoff]

@Jack Mehoff

Ok, then tell me: 1 Country calling for the USA where they not invited themself... :lol:

Recently? Lybia and Haiti(?)

[Beowulf]

@Jack Mehoff

Ok, then tell me: 1 Country calling for the USA where they not invited themself... :lol:

Recently? Lybia and Haiti(?)

Iran

[HELEX]

@Jack Mehoff

"Recently? Lybia and Haiti(?)"

Haiti is a UN operation, the Marines send in were for protecting the US Embassy. The former Presidend didnt call....
Or do you think the french soldiers there are called "Americans"?

Lybia called nobody, they just gave up their NBC-Program due to international pressure and wants the sanctions lifted. They called you? rofl :lol: :roll:

[California Joe]

Aristide's bodyguards work for the same company as TP don't they?

By the way the lack of general historical knowledge in this thread is astounding. You can NOT apply the social and political sentiments today in this country to the 60's. You simply can't. Using some weird Rush Limbaugh idea of what is patriotic in 2004 when you're not high on oxycontin and tagging a combat veteran as a traitor is insane. And for Chrissakes don't bring up Benedict Arnold again because you are talking out of your ass and it has NO relevence to anything.

[WARPIG]

This thread was doomed from the start. I don't like the premise of what Kerry has done in the past. From my perspective his whole campaign rides on negative BS aimed at all things BUSH. I personally don't see any reason to vote for the man. That being said, I highly doubt all the mudslinging going on against him is very credible. My opinion of the man is that he tends to flip-flop on his military comrads. I can't say that he is a coward, traitor, or anything remotely as beligerrant as that. George W. has had his share of "screw ups" in comparison.
My thinking is that I can't expect my favorite ball player to hit grandslams every time he picks up a bat. We elect people in those positions of leadership. People screw up, have pasts, and are imperfect.
So, far.. I have been satisfied with what Bush has done. I am not happy with the rumors of his NG service record, his handling of OIF or the economy. But all in all, I am willing to work with him as compared to not knowing where Kerry's loyalties lie. I don't have any disrespect for the man. On the contrary.. if the whole "End War on Terrorism" BS is true. I can expect a short tour or maybe not having to go to Afghanistan. As a single father.. that kind of appeals to me. I still support Bush.

You morons turning this into another USvsEU poo flinging contest deserve every chunk of **** you get hit by. Keep stinking up this forum you asspirates!

[Truthsayer]

People still going to bitch and whine about United States regardless of what we do. We're like a policeman, some people hate us and some people love us.

You just summed up the problem many people are having with 'you'.

You are like the big kid in the class that thinks his views are the law, being both the 'police, jury and the judge', while the quiter kids just think he is a big bully that push them around for his own amusement or twisted view of justice...

He had your kind in every class in every grade. Most of them became nothing when we grow up...


Let us invade every country harboring terrorists! Let us start with the US, Irland, Spain and other countries...uhuh...ok, let us limit ourselfs to muslim countries only then. And it is not about race! Or Religion!

"ok"



Ps. Some asshat wanted us to be gratefull for being saved from the 'evil germans'. Well, we didn't need saving, but thanks for nothing. It was ofcourse done only by the good in your heart and in no sence for any personal gain. Ds.

[California Joe]

Kerry did his time in Vietnam, earned some medals. W became a jet pilot in the guard, it ain't all that east to fly jets. No problem with either. W then went to work on his dad's campaign and by all accounts got drunk a lot and had some fun. Kerry turned around and did what a lot of people thought was very patriotic at the time. He protested for an end to the war. Only real veterans of the conflict can say if they too would have done those things to stop their friends from dying. By the way, protest is all about symbolism and allegory, like the Bible. Drama rules.

[Sixgun Symphony]

Explain the photographs of the VietCong flags and the Communist clenched fist salute that were so prominate at his "protest" rallies.

This John Kerry may very well be the Manchurien Candidate come to life.