Pressure grows on Serbs [Archive]

Vorian

02-18-2006, 01:08 PM

http://www.ekathimerini.com/kathnews/photos/18-02-06/18-02-06_66552_1.gif

PRISTINA/BELGRADE (Combined reports) - European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso yesterday urged the leaders of Kosovo and Serbia to be prepared to compromise at UN-mediated talks next week.

“Time has come for both sides to prepare generous compromises,” Barroso said, calling 2006 a very “challenging year for Kosovo.”

UN-mediated talks between officials from Kosovo and Serbia on the province’s future begin Monday in Vienna, Austria.

Yesterday, Barroso and the EU’s enlargement official, Olli Rehn, met with Kosovo’s newly elected President Fatmir Sejdiu, Kosovo’s negotiating team and senior UN officials. They also held talks with the province’s Serb minority and the commander of the 17,500-strong NATO-led peacekeeping force.

“I encouraged Belgrade to engage constructively in the talks,” Barroso said. “Today, I am calling on Pristina to do the same.”

Barroso said the EU is expected to take on a bigger role after the end of the talks, especially in the areas of justice, the police and the economy.

A think tank also said yesterday the international community “must dare” to impose Kosovo’s independence on Serbia in order to create stability in the Balkan region. The International Crisis Group made the statement in a report titled “Kosovo: The Challenge of Transition.”

“To create a stable Kosovo, the international community must dare to impose independence rather than attempt finessing Pristina and Belgrade’s differences with an ambiguous and unstable settlement,” the Crisis Group said.

“While agreement between all parties remains desirable in theory, it is extremely unlikely that any Serbian government will voluntarily acquiesce to the kind of independence, conditional though it is likely to be, which is necessary for a secure, long-term solution... The international community — particularly UN special envoy Martti Ahtisaari — must prepare for the possibility of imposing an independence package,” said the report. (AP, AFP)

I don't think that Serbia is just going to give Kosovo independence. And i doubt that an independent Kosovo will last for long, Albania would love to take over.

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 01:32 PM

Here we go again.

I don't think that Serbia is just going to give Kosovo independence.

Yeah right, like anybody will ask for Serbia's opinion. It's already too late for Serbs. Kosova was lost in 1999. Forget about it.

And i doubt that an independent Kosovo will last for long, Albania would love to take over.

That's the most idiotic comment ever. Albanians in Albania do not want Kosova to unite with Albania for MANY resons. And 88% of Kosovar and 97% of Kosova Albanains do not want to unite with Albania. Not now and not anytime soon.

Mustafaj says we do not seek for Great Albania, but for independent Kosovo
Washington, 17:37
Albanian Foreign Minister Besnik Mustafaj said today in Washington that official Tirana does not seek for creating a Great Albania, but for recognition of independent Kosovo.

Mustafaj told press conference that Kosovo is now at the turning point of the process for solving the final status.

He said that Albania stands against state borders shifting, but pledges for independent Kosovo upon government's guarantees for observing the Serbs' rights.

Presenting the 2006 Programme for Working Activities in the beginning of this year, Albanian Foreign Ministry unveiled that solving of the final status of Kosovo by granting independence has been placed as a top priority.

http://www.makfax.com.mk/look/agencija/article.tpl?IdLanguage=1&IdPublication=1&NrArticle=17400&NrIssue=380&NrSection=20

KrajinaKNN

02-18-2006, 01:42 PM

Here we go again.

Yeah right, like anybody will ask for Serbia's opinion. It's already too late for Serbs. Kosova was lost in 1999. Forget about it.

That's the most idiotic comment ever. Albanians in Albania do not want Kosova to unite with Albania for MANY resons. And 88% of Kosovar and 97% of Kosova Albanains do not want to unite with Albania. Not now and not anytime soon.

hahahaha yes yes ..... Kosovo will never become independent because Russia will not allow it!!!!

Vorian

02-18-2006, 01:49 PM

Hyllus have you ever spoke with an Albanian?? I have and they believe that Kosovo must be united with Albania. And not fanatic lunatics but normal people, who live in Greece for years.

zg18

02-18-2006, 02:29 PM

I don`t like this situation with Kosovo,it could easily destabilize Macedonia and south Serbia and BOOM..new war.Recently there was a TV report of Cro national TV station from Macedonia,they visited some village in Skoplje area,the village had mixed(both Macedonian and Albanian) population before 2001 conflict when village fall in the hands of Alb rebels and ethnic Macedonians were expeled, nearly 5 years later they didn`t return to their homes because their homes are burned,just last year 16 abandoned Macedonian houses were burned,Macedonian govermant will not do nothing because govermant don`t want to destroy "peace" from 2001...so this people are refugees in their own homeland,in Albanian ghetos in Macedonia unemployment is 60%+,every house has a weapon..i don`t know what will happen but Albs in Macedonia are living "explozives",if they "explode" there will be new war for certain.

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 02:29 PM

Hyllus have you ever spoke with an Albanian?? I have and they believe that Kosovo must be united with Albania. And not fanatic lunatics but normal people, who live in Greece for years.

Well of course. Everybody is entiteled to its opinion. I will tell you this. Most of Albanians do NOT want to unite with Kosova right now. Maybe in the future(10-20 years from today), but not now. As far as my discusion with Albanians go I will tell you this. I am an Albanian citizen and I fully support Kosova independence. If you were more careful you would pay more attention to my avatar.

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 02:31 PM

I don`t like this situation with Kosovo,it could easily destabilize Macedonia and south Serbia and BOOM..new war.

So what's your solution Mr. Machiavelli?

zg18

02-18-2006, 02:33 PM

Well of course. Everybody is entiteled to its opinion. I will tell you this. Most of Albanians do NOT want to unite with Kosova right now. Maybe in the future(10-20 years from today), but not now. As far as my discusion with Albanians go I will tell you this. I am an Albanian citizen and I fully support Kosova independence. If you were more careful you would pay more attention to my avatar.

If Albania and Kosovo unite it will be like declaration of war to Serbia,you know this right?

Rictor

02-18-2006, 02:36 PM

What compromise? You can't have compromise when one side has all the guns, all the money and all the influence. Negotiations made at gunpoint are not negotiations.

Kosovo is going to be given independence, it's a forgone conclusion. It's funny whenever I see the media reporting that "talks on the final status of Kosovo are about to get started". The final status of Kosovo has already been determined, and what we are seeing now is the West paying lip service to sovereignty, and making a show for a few months before they tell Serbia to sign on the dotted line.

zg18

02-18-2006, 02:37 PM

So what's your solution Mr. Machiavelli?

Look man you are now in U.S.,i`m in Zagreb,if anything bad happen with Kosovo my homeland will have heavy losses both in economy and tourism and other areas,it will affect us all in region,and the worst thing people will die.

AlexNenadic

02-18-2006, 02:38 PM

hahahaha yes yes ..... Kosovo will never become independent because Russia will not allow it!!!!

Judging by the success rate of "Russians will help us Serbs" post 1989, I wouldn't hold my breath. It is rhetoric, nothing more.

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 02:40 PM

If Albania and Kosovo unite it will be like declaration of war to Serbia,you know this right?

You mean in the future? After 20 years? What do you think Serbia will wage war against Albania and Kosova? LOL please stop smoking that stuff. Albania will join NATO in 2008, so yeah go ahead and try it. Serbia will become a weapon-testing territory for NATO again. Pleases top it with these wet dreams. Serbia is in NO postition to wage a war and will not be in the next 10-15 years.

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 02:42 PM

Look man you are now in U.S.,i`m in Zagreb,if anything bad happen with Kosovo my homeland will have heavy losses both in economy and tourism and other areas,it will affect us all in region,and the worst thing people will die.

THere will be NO war unless the Serb start it ....

KrajinaKNN

02-18-2006, 02:52 PM

Judging by the success rate of "Russians will help us Serbs" post 1989, I wouldn't hold my breath. It is rhetoric, nothing more.

but compare RUSSIA from 1990-2000 and to RUSSIA 2005->

KrajinaKNN

02-18-2006, 02:53 PM

Well of course. Everybody is entiteled to its opinion. I will tell you this. Most of Albanians do NOT want to unite with Kosova right now. Maybe in the future(10-20 years from today), but not now. As far as my discusion with Albanians go I will tell you this. I am an Albanian citizen and I fully support Kosova independence. If you were more careful you would pay more attention to my avatar.

"That's the most idiotic comment ever. Albanians in Albania do not want Kosova to unite with Albania for MANY resons. And 88% of Kosovar and 97% of Kosova Albanains do not want to unite with Albania. Not now and not anytime soon. "

maybe u should pay attention to what u are writting

zg18

02-18-2006, 02:54 PM

You mean in the future? After 20 years? What do you think Serbia will wage war against Albania and Kosova? LOL please stop smoking that stuff. Albania will join NATO in 2008, so yeah go ahead and try it. Serbia will become a weapon-testing territory for NATO again. Pleases top it with these wet dreams. Serbia is in NO postition to wage a war and will not be in the next 10-15 years.

Situation 1999 was "bad" for Serbs,there was an ethnic cleansing,NATO bomed Serbia,2000 Milosevic fell down from trone.I also belive that Kosovo will be independent(that is now the best sollution) but if Kosovo unite with Albania it will be wrong message of Albanian people,why Croatia has no rights to unite with BiH Croats(and they would also like to unite with Croatia) and Albania has rights to unite with Kosovo?

AlexNenadic

02-18-2006, 02:59 PM

but compare RUSSIA from 1990-2000 and to RUSSIA 2005->

And the difference is? They still don't give a damn. There is no love between nations.

KrajinaKNN

02-18-2006, 03:00 PM

Situation 1999 was "bad" for Serbs,there was an ethnic cleansing,NATO bomed Serbia,2000 Milosevic fell down from trone.I also belive that Kosovo will be independent(that is now the best sollution) but if Kosovo unite with Albania it will be wrong message of Albanian people,why Croatia has no rights to unite with BiH Croats(and they would also like to unite with Croatia) and Albania has rights to unite with Kosovo?
1. "ethnic cleansing" what???? arguments .... and dont count the NATO BOMBARDMENT!!!
2. "I also belive that Kosovo will be independent(that is now the best sollution) " why is that the best solution ....so from now on its OK to ethnicly cleanse 200 000-300 000 people if u are ally of USA and UK ....but hey those are just Serbs
3. "if Kosovo unite with Albania it will be wrong message of Albanian people" - dont worry it will never happen
4."Croatia has no rights to unite with BiH Croats(and they would also like to unite with Croatia) and Albania has rights to unite with Kosovo" - funny

MOST IMPORANTLLY IF KOSOVO BECOMES INDEPENDENT UN IS BREAKING THE LAW WHICH MAKES THEM CRIMINALS RIGHT!!!!

KrajinaKNN

02-18-2006, 03:01 PM

And the difference is? They still don't give a damn. There is no love between nations.

yeah buddy read some PUTIN's comments about Kosovo and then come back ....there is no more drunk Jeltcin

AlexNenadic

02-18-2006, 03:02 PM

yeah buddy read some PUTIN's comments about Kosovo and then come back ....there is no more drunk Jeltcin

Name one instance when Russia helped Serbia, starting with 1812.

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 03:02 PM

OMFG ... How many times do I have to repeat this. Albania and Kosova will NOT unite anytime soon (5-10 year time period) It's not the best and smartest thing to do. When Kosova becomes independet, THEN we will have to THINK about a possible union just like Serbia & Montenegro but that will be after like ..... 10-15 years.

PS. Albania and Kosova do not have to unite. They are practically united since I can cross the Albanian-Kosova border by just showing them an Albanian passport (same thing goes for Macedonia and Montenegro). I can use the same drivers license and everything and also become a resident which is a matter of days. It's not hard at all. I've been there 2 years ago. Tirana and Prishtina were practically the same in any way shape or form. Everybody spoke Albanian and the girls were hot ass hell. That's what counts.

KrajinaKNN

02-18-2006, 03:04 PM

OMFG ... How many times do I have to repeat this. Albania and Kosova will NOT unite anytime soon (5-10 year time period) It's not the best and smartest thing to do. When Kosova becomes independet, THEN we will have to THINK about a possible union just like Serbia & Montenegro but that will be after like ..... 10-15 years.

PS. Albania and Kosova do not have to unite. They are practically united since I can cross the Albanian-Kosova border by just showing them a passport. I can use the same license and everything and also become a resident which is a matter of days. It's not hard at all. I've been there 2 years ago. Tirana and Prishtina were practically the same in any way shape or form. Everybody spoke Albanian and the girls were hot ass hell. That's what counts.

u should be happy if Albania still exists in 15-20 years ..... wait till USA goes to war with IRAN and SYRIA and stops caring about Balkans

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 03:10 PM

u should be happy if Albania still exists in 15-20 years ..... wait till USA goes to war with IRAN and SYRIA and stops caring about Balkans

KID YOU ARE FUNNY .... You sound like the president of Iran when he adresses to Israel. So what? Do you think Serbia will invade Kosova and Albania and form Greater Serbia? OK then. I won't wake you up. I just hope that you don't wake up when it will be too late.

Somebody should ban these teenagers.

zg18

02-18-2006, 03:10 PM

1. "ethnic cleansing" what???? arguments .... and dont count the NATO BOMBARDMENT!!!
2. "I also belive that Kosovo will be independent(that is now the best sollution) " why is that the best solution ....so from now on its OK to ethnicly cleanse 200 000-300 000 people if u are ally of USA and UK ....but hey those are just Serbs
3. "if Kosovo unite with Albania it will be wrong message of Albanian people" - dont worry it will never happen
4."Croatia has no rights to unite with BiH Croats(and they would also like to unite with Croatia) and Albania has rights to unite with Kosovo" - funny

MOST IMPORANTLLY IF KOSOVO BECOMES INDEPENDENT UN IS BREAKING THE LAW WHICH MAKES THEM CRIMINALS RIGHT!!!!

1.ethnic cleansing-800.000 civilians in Alb. and Macedonia during te war

2.think before you writte,those 200.000 Serbs are argument(preety strong) against Kosovo independance,if Albs can respect Serb rights(i doubt that) and cultural heritage(i also doubt) they will have independance...

3...."those are just Serbs"..don`t you ever talk to me like i`m some primitive fascist,my gr.grandpa fought 1941-1945 with your brothers agaist such yerks and i`m raised in that spirith,i know alot of Serbs and i will not tolerate such BS

KrajinaKNN

02-18-2006, 03:13 PM

1.ethnic cleansing-800.000 civilians in Alb. and Macedonia during te war

2.think before you writte,those 200.000 Serbs are argument(preety strong) against Kosovo independance,if Albs can respect Serb rights(i doubt that) and cultural heritage(i also doubt) they will have independance...

3...."those are just Serbs"..don`t you ever talk to me like i`m some primitive fascist,my gr.grandpa fought 1941-1945 with your brothers agaist such yerks and i`m raised in that spirith,i know alot of Serbs and i will not tolerate such BS

for #1 u are forgeting to say that they STARTED LEAVING AFTER NATO STARTED THEIR CAMPAIGN!!!
there is a big difference ....

and Hylias HOW CAN SERBIA INVADE KOSOVO WHEN KOSOVO IS PART OF SERBIA???? .... TAKE A MAP IF U DONT BELIEVE ME !!!!
powned

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 03:15 PM

if Albs can respect Serb rights(i doubt that) and cultural heritage(i also doubt) they will have independance...

That's not true. When I visited Kosova 2 years ago I was in Peja and I heard like 5-6 people speaking Serbian in the biggest City Market. Nobody was bothering them. I also think it will be difficult in the beginning but it is possible.

eucalyptus

02-18-2006, 03:16 PM

Fighting in Kosovo was bad, independence will make sure that it will not happend again, am I the only one that is seing this point? The return of Kosovo will bring it to square one.

KrajinaKNN

02-18-2006, 03:17 PM

KID YOU ARE FUNNY .... You sound like the president of Iran when he adresses to Israel. So what? Do you think Serbia will invade Kosova and Albania and form Greater Serbia? OK then. I won't wake you up. I just hope that you don't wake up when it will be too late.

Somebody should ban these teenagers.

o yeah how come WE ARE CREATING GRETAER SERBIA and u are taking OUR LAND AND KILLING EVERYTHING THAT IS NOT ALBANIAN!!!!

i lived with u and i know what are ALBANIANS .....u can lie to americans and Brits but u cant lie to me because i want through a lot of **** in Kosovo .... U WERE THE ONES WHO STARTED KILLING POLICE OFFICERS AND CIVILIANS and for every ACTION THERE IS REACTION!!!

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 03:18 PM

and Hylias HOW CAN SERBIA INVADE KOSOVO WHEN KOSOVO IS PART OF SERBIA???? .... TAKE A MAP IF U DONT BELIEVE ME !!!!

ehhehehe Funny guy .... Is that why there are 200 Serbian Military bases and 40 000 Serbian soldiers stationed in Kosova? Oh wait ..... What? Ah I forgot there are "0" Serbian soldiers in Kosova.... ZERO, NADA, ZIP ....

Soon you will have to buy a new map.

KrajinaKNN

02-18-2006, 03:19 PM

Fighting in Kosovo was bad, independence will make sure that it will not happend again, am I the only one that is seing this point? The return of Kosovo will bring it to square one.

when Srpska becomes independent we can "talk" about the division of KOSOVO

eucalyptus

02-18-2006, 03:19 PM

KrajinaKNN

02-18-2006, 03:20 PM

ehhehehe Funny guy .... Is that why there are 200 Serbian Military bases and 40 000 Serbian soldiers stationed in Kosova? Oh wait ..... What? Ah I forgot there are "0" Serbian soldiers in Kosova.... ZERO, NADA, ZIP ....

Soon you will have to buy a new map.

hahhaha well i m still using the old map and its very accurate

KrajinaKNN

02-18-2006, 03:21 PM

KOSOVO guys KOSOVO

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 03:21 PM

u can lie to americans and Brits but u cant lie to me because i want through a lot of **** in Kosovo

So you lived in Kosova huh? LOL Tell me the city and the street where you used to live. Let's see where all this stuff happened?

Flagg

02-18-2006, 03:24 PM

u should be happy if Albania still exists in 15-20 years ..... wait till USA goes to war with IRAN and SYRIA and stops caring about Balkans

Take a 3 day break for sh!t-stirring.

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 03:25 PM

Stop worring about Kosova, and put your attention to Montenegro.

x2
rofl rofl rofl

127th Knights

02-18-2006, 03:51 PM

I really love these hot threads. I can just imagine most of you kids hopping and screaming in your shrill voices at each other. Lets talk facts:

Kosovo:
The Serbian parliment has already decided to have an emergency session on the "imposed" solution of Kosovo. Here there will be many things discussed including the referendum issue for Kosovo and a military action if an imposed solution is brought by. Go to Google, news, and type in Serbia and you'll find all of these news articles. So what does this mean. A possible referendum will take place where all of the citizens of Serbia will vote on an independant Kosovo. If the population votes against letting it go, the people have effectively voted to go to war. If they let it go, no war. Everybody with me so far? Second, the US and Serbia have a movement agreement treaty where the US can pull back through Serbia along Corridor 10, to Nis; where they would then relocate to another country. Again, google it. This means that the US quite possibly would not get involved militarily. And for all you kids that think NATO is big and bad, wake up. NATO is a joke without the US. Hence the 95% control over Allied Force in '99. The French, Brits, and Germans couldn't technologically or just plain numerically keep up. Pretty sad really. Oh, go to Janes and you'll see that the European allies of the US have on average, shrunk their military capability as a whole by 27% since 9/11. Exactly the reverse of the US. And really, I don't think that the US wants to fight another war on another front. You would have a meltdown over here. Ask any American what he thinks about Kosovo: He/She will look at you and say, "who", "what", "that's a place?" "I don't care!" What it comes down to is that there is not easy solution and it is gonna suck when this war comes, b/c don't be children...there will be a war! Only the dead have seen the end of war.

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 03:57 PM

Kosovo:
The Serbian parliment has already decided to have an emergency session on the "imposed" solution of Kosovo. Here there will be many things discussed including the referendum issue for Kosovo and a military action if an imposed solution is brought by. Go to Google, news, and type in Serbia and you'll find all of these news articles. So what does this mean. A possible referendum will take place where all of the citizens of Serbia will vote on an independant Kosovo. If the population votes against letting it go, the people have effectively voted to go to war. If they let it go, no war. Everybody with me so far? Second, the US and Serbia have a movement agreement treaty where the US can pull back through Serbia along Corridor 10, to Nis; where they would then relocate to another country. Again, google it. This means that the US quite possibly would not get involved militarily. And for all you kids that think NATO is big and bad, wake up. NATO is a joke without the US. Hence the 95% control over Allied Force in '99. The French, Brits, and Germans couldn't technologically or just plain numerically keep up. Pretty sad really. Oh, go to Janes and you'll see that the European allies of the US have on average, shrunk their military capability as a whole by 27% since 9/11. Exactly the reverse of the US. And really, I don't think that the US wants to fight another war on another front. You would have a meltdown over here. Ask any American what he thinks about Kosovo: He/She will look at you and say, "who", "what", "that's a place?" "I don't care!" What it comes down to is that there is not easy solution and it is gonna suck when this war comes, b/c don't be children...there will be a war! Only the dead have seen the end of war.

Ok time to get up now...

Damn your imagination is on the highest levels. You can make a nice movie out of this.

zg18

02-18-2006, 04:05 PM

Pan_Grzegorz

02-18-2006, 04:50 PM

If you were more careful you would pay more attention to my avatar.

I see a guy with some funny hat on horse. What the hell is this :)?

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 05:16 PM

I see a guy with some funny hat on horse. What the hell is this :)?

http://www.shqiperia.com/foto/albums/album23/The_Albanian_Flag.sized.jpg

That is the monument of Gjergj Kastrioti Skederbeg (Albania's National Hero) in downtown Tirana. And it's not a "funny hat" it's his sword in the background but it looks like part of the hat.

More info here .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skenderbeg

GuiltySpark

02-18-2006, 05:24 PM

Pan_Grzegorz

02-18-2006, 05:25 PM

OK. Thanks.

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 05:27 PM

zg18

02-18-2006, 05:33 PM

Only horse I see is a huge dead one, with a bunch of people standing around it sticks in hand.

Balklands and surrounding area is such a beautiful place. It's too bad people are bent on destroying it and killing each other. :roll:

Hyllus agreed,GuiltySpark first read some history books about the Balkans and you will see why the Balkan problems aren`t so simple as you said. ;-)

GuiltySpark

02-18-2006, 05:35 PM

I wasn't trying to be funny.
It's an amazing area. I remember standing on a footbridge that roman soldiers walked across. A roman legion spent a winter in a vally there training and I went to a church that held a lot of their artifacts. The mountians, forests, coast. Just look at the picture you posted.
Awesome stuff.
Unfortinuatly the people, as we humans are apt at doing, ruin it. We don't need to look frather than these forums to see the hatred and predjuice is alive and well.

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 05:38 PM

Unfortinuatly the people, as we humans are apt at doing, ruin it. We don't need to look frather than these forums to see the hatred and predjuice is alive and well.

Again as zg18 said .... take a history book about the Balkans and you will see why the Balkan problems aren`t so simple as you said.

PS. The balkans aren't as bad as they are portrayed. The wars are over and it was enough for us. Every country in the region is moving foreward.

zg18

02-18-2006, 05:42 PM

GuiltySpark

02-18-2006, 05:54 PM

take a history book about the Balkans and you will see why the Balkan problems aren`t so simple as you said.

PS. The balkans aren't as bad as they are portrayed. The wars are over and it was enough for us. Every country in the region is moving foreward.

I never said the problems were simple :)

Hopefully enough is enough. In 2001 the HDZ attempted to start the war up again in Bosnia which SFOR prevented. 2001 wasn't all that long ago. With luck the trouble makers have crawled under a hole and people realise if they want a future they need to put their guns away.

ZG18, incomming PM.

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 05:59 PM

we are more multicultural society than the rest of the Europe with all Euroasian religions but we don`t see this as our advantage but as a "curse".

Maybe for Croats its a matter of religion, and I know that it is for Bosnians and Serbs too. But for us is a matter of a nationality. We have three major religion and nobody even cares. On the other had Yugoslavia had the smae three religions (Catholic, Othrodox and Muslim) and look how it ended up. I don't really think the war in Yugo was REALLY about religion. It was a war between people with different ideologies.

zg18

02-18-2006, 06:03 PM

Maybe for Croats its a matter of religion, and I know that it is for Bosnians and Serbs too. But for us is a matter of a nationality. We have three major religion and nobody even cares. On the other had Yugoslavia had the smae three religions (Catholic, Othrodox and Muslim) and look how it ended up. I don't really think the war was REALLY about religion. It was a war between people with different ideologies.

Generaly Croats,Serbs and Muslims are one nation but separated with religions unlike you Albanians.

Croat=catholic,Serb=orthodox,Bosniac=muslim,one language,similar culture...sad,very sad

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 06:10 PM

In 2001 the HDZ attempted to start the war up again in Bosnia which SFOR prevented.

Any more info about this? What were the reasons and how was it prevented?

GuiltySpark

02-18-2006, 06:13 PM

Ya religion has a real way of ****ing things up doesn't it.
One of the factors that enable humans to kill each other easier is authotity. Whether it's a platoon commander, gang leader, abusive spouce, cult leader. Religion is the ultimate authority when it comes to justifying taking life.
Of course in many cases it's dependent on how someone choose to understand what it is their reading but religion itself still sets a great foundation for providing the authority to kill.

Any more info about this? What were the reasons and how was it prevented?
I can't tell you why they wanted to. Organizations were funding groups who planned on taking over weapon contonement sites and I guess they planned to use the weapons on the army, police or something. I'm not too sure how they would have pulled it off or their exact plan.
SFOR got wind of what they were trying and
a) Took over security of weapon contonment sites (Apparently the guards were paid and/or planed to just let these guys walk in and grab what they wanted) and
b) Raided local banks for their records so SFOR could investigate exactly who was responsible for funding these people and trace it back to where it started. You may or may not remember this happening in the news - SFOR "robbing" banks in certain cities in bosnia. Believe it was around april 4th, 2001.

zg18

02-18-2006, 06:17 PM

Any more info about this? What were the reasons and how was it prevented?

It was a try of HDZ of BiH to restore again Herceg-Bosna from the war as third entity,that was against Dayton agreement,so they failed with big consequences to Croatia.

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 06:26 PM

Thx for the info. Although it's kindda wierd trying that 6 years after the war ended. Couldn't they do it before or what? Btw who were they going to fight?

zg18

02-18-2006, 06:33 PM

Thx for the info. Although it's kindda wierd trying that 6 years after the war ended. Couldn't they do it before or what? Btw who were they going to fight?

Croats are not happy in Federation BiH,they want their own entity like Serbs(1 700 000 Bosniacs = 450 000 Croats in F BiH),so you see why they are not happy,in Republic of Srpska Serbs are own masters in F BiH Bosniacs are main nation and Croats feel that.They are not equal in BiH as the smallest nation.

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 06:43 PM

oh I get it ... Why didn't they sort it out during the war but they agreed in Dayton? What do u think is going to happen in the future?

127th Knights

02-18-2006, 06:56 PM

Hey Hyllus:
you can watch that movie on cnn, bbc, oh oh oh, my favorite is fox. By the way, if you'd like the cliffnotes go to these webpages.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000085&sid=aNTqBt7CJwus&refer=europe
http://euobserver.com/9/20913
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,18162575%255E2703,00.html
http://www.voanews.com/english/2006-02-15-voa31.cfm
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/i_latestdetail.asp?id=35564
http://www.kosovo.com/news/archive/2006/February_15/2.html
http://www.b92.net/english/news/index.php?&nav_category=12&nav_id=33842&order=priority&style=headlines
http://www.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-234/0602131806193834.htm
http://www.dtt-net.com/en/index.php?page=view-article&article=1068&CMSSESSID=3aa155bd487c5823aa76f2e46ea0a582

zg18

02-18-2006, 07:04 PM

oh I get it ... Why didn't they sort it out during the war but they agreed in Dayton? What do u think is going to happen in the future?

http://www.hdzausnz.com/images/photos/tudman/tudm_port.jpg Franjo Tudman...

Because of him..
He wanted eastern Slavonia,after "Oluja",eastern Slavonia was still in Serb hands,they had strong defenses,11.corps with 15 000 slodiers,tanks, artylleri and Serbia in the "backs".

http://edition.cnn.com/WORLD/Bosnia/updates/jan96/01-10/slavonia/eastern_slavonia.jpg

There were two given orders to attack Serbs but all failed,the operation name was "Vukovarska golubica",all Cro guards brigades with strong arty and tank support and helicopter desant in Baranja to avoid Serb fortifications on the shores of Drava river(little higher ground),losses 2000-5000 soldiers(to much) and risk of all out war with Serbia.
And because of that he sacrifased Croat entety in BiH for peacefull reintegration of eastern Slavonia , if he wanted Croat entety in BiH Croatia would give eastern Slavonia to Serbia.
So he decided for eastern Slavonia(i would chose entety).

DeathForSale

02-18-2006, 07:09 PM

Enough with this personal tad for tad bull****, lets discuss the real issue:

Here's an article from Serbia:
Article translated by me from Serbian Newspaper Kurir:

Quote:

Occupation
Aleksander Vucic says that Kosovo will be defended by all means except military action. Vladika Artemije welcomes Nikolicev's statements.

Belgrade- The announcement of Tomislav Nikolic, the stand in president of the Serbian Radical Party that he had agreed with Premier Kostunica that in case of the declaration of independance of the Serbian province of Kosovo, an occupation of sovereign territory will be declared, has cause an uproar and differing views in the public.
Nikolic, after talks with the Serbian premeire said that both of them had agreed that incase somebody announces the indepence of Kosovo and Metohija, the Serbian Parliament will adopt a resolution with that "independance" will be considered an foreign occupation of part of our territory, upon which Serbia "would defend it's sovereignity by all available means."
Similair views where expressed by Patriarch Pavle not long ago, who appealed to his countrymen that the "eventual occupation of Kosovo will not be allowed to be accepted without resistance." \par

" It's obviuos to everybody that the western powers, amongst which especially the British, want to convince us that we must surrender Kosovo and that we lost it long ago because of Milosevic's politics, which they, judging by announcements from certian politicians, have partially succeeded."- stated Vucic

Asked with which means Serbia will defend Kosovo from occupation and if that "defense" also means armed engagments Vucic says that Serbia "Is not capable for all out war presently, but that alternately it will undertake all other possible means to defend it's territory and internationally recognized soveregnity"

Vice-President of the Serbian Reform Movement Srdjan Sreckovic ocenio je da je ivjava Tomislava Nikolica "counter-productive to national interests."

127th Knights

02-18-2006, 07:16 PM

Nice article Death for Sale. Two of my links have English language articles pertaining to the same thing. They're just Western News articles. That's ok though, the more proof that there is, the more likely people are to realize that the threats are real. How about Kostunica's reaction to Nikolic. Absolutely calm and assuring. No disagreement whatsoever. Just a commitment to use all constitutional means necessary. "constitutional", that means a draft in political circles right?

DeathForSale

02-18-2006, 07:20 PM

Well there was an article on Itar-Tass and BBC about how Putin has emphasized the need for an agreement that is in line with international law and UN resolution 1224. Which basically means giving Kosovo FULL INDEPENDANCE would be illegal, and on an international level unjustifiable.

DeathForSale

02-18-2006, 07:23 PM

From World News:

Putin warns Kosovo independence could rock Caucasus
MOSCOW: Russian President Vladimir Putin said today independence for Kosovo could create a dangerous precedent in the troubled regions of the Caucasus.

Putin's comments, at his annual news conference in the Kremlin, came as the European Union and the United States sought to unite the divided leadership of the Balkan region for talks on independence.

He said independence for Kosovo could cause problems for provinces such as Abkhazia and South Ossetia, which gained de facto independence from Georgia in the early 1990s and are now propped up by Russia.

''If someone considers that Kosovo can be given full state independence, then why must we refuse this to the Abkhazians or South Ossetians,'' Putin said.

''I do not want to say that Russia will immediately recognise Abkhazia or South Ossetia as independent states, but such precedents exist,'' he said.

The comments are certain to shake the fragile ties between Moscow and Tbilisi, since Georgia already accuses its giant neighbour of supporting the rebel provinces internationally considered to be part of Georgia.

Moscow says it is merely helping to keep the peace and protect its citizens in the breakaway regions, where most residents have been given Russian passports and state budgets are subsidised by Moscow.

Kosovo, legally a province of Serbia, has been a United Nations protectorate since 1999 after a NATO bombing campaign, launched to prevent a Serbian crackdown on Kosovo's majority ethnic Albanians turning into a slaughter of civilians, pushed out Serbian troops.

Russia, a close ally of Yugoslavia in the 1990s, opposed the NATO bombing campaign that led to the overthrow of Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic in 2000.

DeathForSale

02-18-2006, 07:39 PM

Calm down man, and stop using caps.. please
Blaming game doesnt work good around here.

Stop worring about Kosova, and put your attention to Montenegro. There are general votes (or what ever you call them) in march arent there?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4690294.stm
Eucalyptus, why are you trying to flame for no reason.
1) You are calling it Kosova on purpose to aggrevate the Serbs when you know thats what Albanians call it.
2) Well look at you're post. Not related to Kosovo now is it? Please stop if you have nothing to add.

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 07:40 PM

So Deathforsale ... what do you think Russia will do to help you?

127th Knights

02-18-2006, 07:42 PM

DeathForSale

02-18-2006, 07:46 PM

Well first I'd like to say, looking at history that sadly we have to take everything that comes from Russia with a grain of salt. On the other hand like somebody said Putin is not Yeltsin and today's Russia is not the 1999 Russia. What you have to remember is that irregradless of the situation on the ground, politics, namely that of the Contact Group is what will decide what Kosovo's status will be. Remember Russia is an key member of the contact group, and then you have China in the security coucil which I am quite sure will take Serbia's side in any decisions there, for obviuos reasons. So I guess Serbia's position is not at as weak as most think. Just my 2 cents.

DeathForSale

02-18-2006, 07:47 PM

yeah, either Kosovo's recognition would be illegal or it would be a new precedent for all areas seeking independance. I.E. Basque area in spain, corsica off of the coast of france, Northern Italy, Bavaria, Miami, Taiwan, Sri Lanka.....etc.
EXACTLY, and do you think countries possible affected would want to risk that just for the sake of fullfilling Kosovo Albanians political ambitions? I would say not.

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 07:59 PM

yeah, either Kosovo's recognition would be illegal or it would be a new precedent for all areas seeking independance. I.E. Basque area in spain, corsica off of the coast of france, Northern Italy, Bavaria, Miami, Taiwan, Sri Lanka.....etc.

So what you're saying is that is Kosova doesnt gain independence then all these people will give up their claims? Please you can't be serious.

I said this before and I will say it again. Kosova is practically independent. It has it's would administration, governmnet, parliment, president, prime minister, education system, currency, mailing system ARMY etc and the Serbian government as of 2 minutes ago has no power AT ALL over Kosova. They cannot make decisions for Kosovars. There are ZERO Serbian soldiers in Kosova. So what do you think might change the future? Do you think the Serbs will ever have control of Kosova with a population of more than 1.7 million Albanians? Just think about it. 100% of the Albanians in Kosova wich make up 90-95% of Kosova's population are against anything else except independence. Let's not even talk about being part and ruled by Serbia. No sane person would think otherwise after what happened in 1999. Looking at the Serbian people who prase their radical party I think that what happened in 1999 can be repeated by Serbs if independence is given to Kosova. Kosova's independence would be a stabilizing factor for all the Balkans. If independence is not given to Kosova then ... unfortunately there will be another war ... which would cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of people from both sides.

Looking at the reaction on the Serbian gov't I can clearly see theat they are giving up Kosova slowly.

In 2000 they said that Kosova should be part of Serbia and have autonomy.
In 2003 they said that Kosova should be part of Serbia and have more than autonomy and less then independence.
Now In 2006 2 hours ago I read an article from an Albanian newspaper the plan of the Serb gov't. They said that they only wanted Northern Mitrovica and some kind of "safe heaven" somewhere in the middle of Kosova for Serbs.

THe talks start on Monday, so lets see whats gonna happen.

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 08:02 PM

EXACTLY, and do you think countries possible affected would want to risk that just for the sake of fullfilling Kosovo Albanians political ambitions? I would say not.
So what do you think the BEST solution is?

DeathForSale

02-18-2006, 08:02 PM

DeathForSale

02-18-2006, 08:04 PM

So what do you think the BEST solution is?
The one that Tadic proposed, autonomy with whats left of the Serbs in Kosovo under Serbian administration and Albanians under their own administration for 20 years when everything will be reviewed.

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 08:15 PM

Come on Hyllus, seriously tell me know how Kosovo Albanians came to have such a high majority, when historically this was not an fact, till after WW2 and onwards when their numbers skyrocketed, and for what reasons I will not say but me and you both know.

So you want to get historical huh? Tell me how many Serbs were in Kosova before the 6th century? Oh well then, stop being a smartass. Now it 2006 the status of Kosova has nothing to do with history if it did we Kosova would be independent a long time ago.

The one that Tadic proposed, autonomy with whats left of the Serbs in Kosovo under Serbian administration and Albanians under their own administration for 20 years when everything will be reviewed.
I hope you are joking because you are WAY OFF. That's like declaring war to Albanians.

PS. Serbia just changed plans a few hours ago. They only want Mitrovica and a portion of land in central Kosova. I wonder why? They know they chances are slim VERY slim. I believe the most Serbs will get is an autonomy for Northerm Mitrovica and other places where Serbs are a majority (which there are none...lol)

sp2c

02-18-2006, 08:33 PM

I say let them have their independance if they choose to, but then grant the same right to the Bosnian Serbs

DeathForSale

02-18-2006, 09:18 PM

I say let them have their independance if they choose to, but then grant the same right to the Bosnian Serbs
Yeah but the wests double standards don't allow that. LOL @ Hyllus, yeah all those Serbs left their land peacefully back in 2004 right? Come on man it's pointless to discuss with somebody when you think Albanians should have all rights and all other minorities none. Whats up with this majority bullcrap anyway? They're a majority, so what? If that was the case every country would have territoires breaking away. International law is on our side, even if Kosovo got independance it would be an illegitimate and illegal nation.

Son_Of_Suvorov

02-18-2006, 09:30 PM

hahahaha yes yes ..... Kosovo will never become independent because Russia will not allow it!!!!

What can the Russian government do? I don't think there are any political "trump cards" they can trade for Kosovo, and risking a local war is not worth it for them (WWIII anyone?). In any case the current occupants of the government can always be bought. There wouldn't be any of these problems if Zhirinovskiy was elected in 1996.

But for us is a matter of a nationality. We have three major religion and nobody even cares.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4214974207914289532&q=kosovo+church

Now it's time to pretend I'm Henry Kissinger. If it was up to me, I'd let the Albanians take over Kosovo. Then things will take their natural course, violations of the human rights of Serbs in Kosovo will continue, Kosovo will merge with Albania (all of 10 to 20 years for unification? I think Hyllus is being a little pessimistic), and then any little event is cause enough for military intervention! Carpet bombing for everyone!

sp2c

02-18-2006, 09:41 PM

Yeah but the wests double standards don't allow that. LOL @ Hyllus, yeah all those Serbs left their land peacefully back in 2004 right? Come on man it's pointless to discuss with somebody when you think Albanians should have all rights and all other minorities none. Whats up with this majority bullcrap anyway? They're a majority, so what? If that was the case every country would have territoires breaking away. International law is on our side, even if Kosovo got independance it would be an illegitimate and illegal nation.
I don't really agree, by that rhetoric Yugoslavia should still exist and none of these country's should be independant.

there was a war, everybody killed eachother, it was nasty, my favourite vacation spot as a little child was shot up by naval artillery, new countries were created and here we are ... now we need to move forward (by we, I really mean you it isn't really any of my business, just giving my opinion) we can do this by deciding the borders are still not as they should be and change them without another war but then we have to be fair to all parties involved including the serbian minorities in Bosnia and Croatia, not just the Albanians in Kosovo

we won't for various reasons (Sarajevo is one) so we shouldn't grant independance to Kosovo

that's my 2 cents anyways, don't spend them all at once ;)

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 10:40 PM

I don't really agree, by that rhetoric Yugoslavia should still exist and none of these country's should be independant.

there was a war, everybody killed eachother, it was nasty, my favourite vacation spot as a little child was shot up by naval artillery, new countries were created and here we are ... now we need to move forward (by we, I really mean you it isn't really any of my business, just giving my opinion) we can do this by deciding the borders are still not as they should be and change them without another war but then we have to be fair to all parties involved including the serbian minorities in Bosnia and Croatia, not just the Albanians in Kosovo

we won't for various reasons (Sarajevo is one) so we shouldn't grant independance to Kosovo

that's my 2 cents anyways, don't spend them all at once

Damn! Take one stand man. Not three. Make up your mind. Either moving foreward by giving Kosva independence, or don't grant Kosova independence which means war.

Hyllus

02-18-2006, 10:52 PM

Now it's time to pretend I'm Henry Kissinger. If it was up to me, I'd let the Albanians take over Kosovo. Then things will take their natural course, violations of the human rights of Serbs in Kosovo will continue, Kosovo will merge with Albania (all of 10 to 20 years for unification? I think Hyllus is being a little pessimistic), and then any little event is cause enough for military intervention! Carpet bombing for everyone!

Damn ... You are the third member who made up these kinds of future predictions which I always find fascinating. I wonder what you guys are doing in MP.net? Why don't you guys go to Hollywood or something like that, you can be famous movied directors.

About the video. I don't see the point of it. The Serbs burned 30%of the houses in Kosova back in 1999. Albanians burn some churches. Big deal. BTW you know how the Serbs use those kinds of churches. They build them and say "HEY look at our churches they have been there for 300 years (so what?) that means Kosova is our homeland and stuff like that."

P.S This Serbian guy who lives in California told me that in Orthodox Serbian churches they teach you Serbdom and stuff like that. And lets not forget the priest who was blessing the criminials in Bosnia before they went in a killing spree in Bosnia. Yeah those churches. Hmmm I wonder if god loves to see killing. He even send priests to "protect" the criminals.

GazB

02-19-2006, 01:03 AM

The whole situation is screwed up.

Some amusing points... the ethnic groups that can't live together with other ethnic groups like Albania, Croatia, and Slovenia... all depicted in the western media as the "good guys" want to join NATO and the EU.

Serbia was punnished for trying to kick out an ethnic group that call themselves Albanians from a part of Serbian territory by NATO bombing them and then allowing that ethnic group to then kick all the serbs out of that Serbian province. The punnishment for that ethnic cleansing is they get their own independant country? How does that work?

At the end of the day the wants and needs of the locals mean zip. Basically the West will decide what happens, despite promises there would be no independance for Kosovo, despite what they are basically doing is creating a new country which pretty much equates to invasion by reproduction.

The result will be independance for Kosovo... and an entrance point for drugs, aholes, and underage prostitution into the EU will be legitimised...

Isn't politics wonderful?

Perhaps if they are going to be painted the bad guys anyway the Serbs should start acting like the bad guy should offer safe haven for Osama Bin Ladin for 20 million a day. Opening its borders to the drug trade into europe should earn them some cash as well... a 10% cut would earn them lots of money.

If nothing they can do is right, then it only pays to be wrong.

DeathForSale

02-19-2006, 01:22 AM

Damn! Take one stand man. Not three. Make up your mind. Either moving foreward by giving Kosva independence, or don't grant Kosova independence which means war.
So basically what you are saying besides that burning CENTURIES OLD CHRISTIAN MONASTERIES is "no big deal" and forcing Serbs to live in isolation and fear, with no water,gas,electricity or phone connections that if you don't get what you want you are threatening the region with war? Very mature.

zg18

02-19-2006, 03:02 AM

I will say just this,1999 after retreat of Serbian army from Kosovo,U.S. wanted Kosovo indepedance immediatly without Serbia and negotiations but Russia stoped that to be precyse Viktor Chernomirdyn so now Serbs because of Russians have a good base for upcoming negotiations,so basicly Russia helped that the Kosovo 7 years after the war be today in Serbia although Serbia has no power there.

DeathForSale

02-19-2006, 03:11 AM

zg18

02-19-2006, 03:37 AM

I'd like to say they did what they could, but personally I think they could have done a bit more.

Very true, but they were given free hands with Chechenya for return of not doing more with Kosovo.

sp2c

02-19-2006, 03:43 AM

Damn! Take one stand man. Not three. Make up your mind. Either moving foreward by giving Kosva independence, or don't grant Kosova independence which means war.
I'm not taking any stand, I'm just giving the options ... and moving forward doesn't neccesarily mean Kosovo's independance, not granting it doesn't neccesary mean mean war either but if that's how you guys want it, we can allways come back and bomb the other side

Vorian

02-19-2006, 09:23 AM

Independence for Kossovo is going to trigger a lot of turmoil in the Balkans. If the kosovar Albanians go independent, then why not the Albanians from FYROM? If FYROM collapses(and there are good chances it will), Bulgaria might try to take the eastern provinces, since they are claiming them for so long. Serbia can not allow this, they stopped it from happening during the Balkan wars. greece will face thousand of refuges and will have to send peacekeepers to calm things down. Meanwhile Albanian ethnicism will be sky high which will cause problems with the Albanians in Greece and in South Albania, where a lot of Greeks live. What will come next? US will probably be too busy with Iran and Syria to interfere and UN will just ask UN to send troops, which won't do much.

Hyllus

02-19-2006, 10:58 AM

If the kosovar Albanians go independent, then why not the Albanians from FYROM?
Ok let's stop here for a second. Where the hell do you get these ideas? Albanians in FYROM went to war in 2001 because they were being oppresed by the Macedonian gov't. They composed 25% of the population and had no rights to have their own schools or speak their own language. How would you feel. So they went to war and asked for talk. The Macedonian gov't at first thought it could take care of them so refused to talk with the "rebels" (yeah right), but when they realised that 1/4 of their army was getting destroyed by 1000 men with Aks they realised they were in deep sh*t so they started compromising with the same people they called "rebels" tow days ago. Albanians got everything they wanted ie Albanian is an official language, they have their own school and university and stuff liek that. I don't think that Albs in Macedonia really give a rats a*s about Albania. I went there 2 years ago. I was in Tetova. Really cool city. Anyway I have some relatives there and I asked them about the situation. They did not wat to unite with Albania and they said here we have everything we need and I don't think Albania is better. So I guess they are better off there. Afterall soon they are going to become a majority in Macedonia (hi serbs).

DeathForSale

02-19-2006, 11:55 AM

DeathForSale

02-19-2006, 11:56 AM

Ok let's stop here for a second. Where the hell do you get these ideas? Albanians in FYROM went to war in 2001 because they were being oppresed by the Macedonian gov't. They composed 25% of the population and had no rights to have their own schools or speak their own language. How would you feel. So they went to war and asked for talk. The Macedonian gov't at first thought it could take care of them so refused to talk with the "rebels" (yeah right), but when they realised that 1/4 of their army was getting destroyed by 1000 men with Aks they realised they were in deep sh*t so they started compromising with the same people they called "rebels" tow days ago. Albanians got everything they wanted ie Albanian is an official language, they have their own school and university and stuff liek that. I don't think that Albs in Macedonia really give a rats a*s about Albania. I went there 2 years ago. I was in Tetova. Really cool city. Anyway I have some relatives there and I asked them about the situation. They did not wat to unite with Albania and they said here we have everything we need and I don't think Albania is better. So I guess they are better off there. Afterall soon they are going to become a majority in Macedonia (hi serbs).
Hyllus, you sir are really reducing you're image with stuff like what you just wrote above and it is getting quite hard to discuss with.

Hyllus

02-19-2006, 01:22 PM

Hyllus, you sir are really reducing you're image with stuff like what you just wrote above and it is getting quite hard to discuss with.
Why? What did i say?

Son_Of_Suvorov

02-19-2006, 08:48 PM

Damn ... You are the third member who made up these kinds of future predictions which I always find fascinating. I wonder what you guys are doing in MP.net? Why don't you guys go to Hollywood or something like that, you can be famous movied directors.

I wanted to, but it turns out that movie has already been made (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120885/).

BTW you know how the Serbs use those kinds of churches. They build them and say "HEY look at our churches they have been there for 300 years (so what?) that means Kosova is our homeland and stuff like that."

Let me explain the concept of property to you: if you had it first, it belongs to you.

P.S This Serbian guy who lives in California told me that in Orthodox Serbian churches they teach you Serbdom and stuff like that.

Whoa, no really? Teaching Serbdom in a Serbian Orthodox Church? Your friend from California is really far out!

And lets not forget the priest who was blessing the criminials in Bosnia before they went in a killing spree in Bosnia. Yeah those churches. Hmmm I wonder if god loves to see killing. He even send priests to "protect" the criminals.

In situations such as these, it is useful to compare people's reactions. Many people say that some Christian sects in the USA are intolerant. As you may know by now, the 9/11 hijackers were religious people and supposedly had the blessing of their mosque leader. Bin Laden's fatwa to kill Americans was endorsed by many muftis around the world. But I don't seem to ever recall seeing a group of angry Americans burning down a mosque while waving the stars and stripes around.

Albanians in FYROM went to war in 2001 because they were being oppresed by the Macedonian gov't. They composed 25% of the population and had no rights to have their own schools or speak their own language. How would you feel.

Oh my god! That poor oppressed minority! No right to have their minority language schools funded by taxpayer money or to have their minority language recognized as official in places where it isn't spoken!

Go cry me a ****ing river. Let me tell you what civilized people do about these things. When Latvia became independent, over 40% of the population wasn't Latvian. Those people (myself included) lost their citizenship, the right to conduct business in the Russian language (the first or second language for everyone in Latvia), and of course the right to be educated in Russian (well, it's more like a restriction that only so few hours of the cirriculum can be taught in Russian, but now the Latvian government is trying to take that away too). What are these people doing about it? Well, some of them (my family included) succumbed to the pressure of the Latvian ultra-nationalists (I would call them racists, but hey, one man's racist...) and left the country. Others are doing this wonderful thing you might have heard about, which is engaging in civil and political action to have the Latvian government restore their rights. That's right - there's no need for guns if you're willing to use your brains!

"Oppression" is when a minority of violent fanatics uses terrorism against the civilian population (do you really think the NLA was busy fighting the Macedonian army? Go read some news) to impose their will on a country.

CyberSpec

02-19-2006, 09:41 PM

Why? What did i say?

A massive load of BS.

You realise that your visions of grandeur are almost TOTALLY dependant on foreign help?

Sooner or later, your sponsors won't be there to look out for you. Your problem is that you have plenty of enemies and no allies in the area.

Hyllus

02-19-2006, 10:43 PM

Let me explain the concept of property to you: if you had it first, it belongs to you.

Exactly that's why it belongs to us.

Whoa, no really? Teaching Serbdom in a Serbian Orthodox Church? Your friend from California is really far out!
Thats what he told me.

But I don't seem to ever recall seeing a group of angry Americans burning down a mosque while waving the stars and stripes around.

Yeah that's because the Muslims in America do not come here, build a mosque and say this is our land because our mosque is 300 years old. Even though you have lived here and we destroyed your church which was 600 years old. Please stop the crap.

No right to have their minority language schools funded by taxpayer money or to have their minority language recognized as official in places where it isn't spoken!
Taxpayer money? So what? 25% of the taxpayers are Albanian. If we use the same logics then why should they pay money to built Macedonian schools?

DeathForSale

02-19-2006, 11:25 PM

Well Son of Suvorov and Cyberspec took the words out of my mouth.
Guys I think it's quite obvious Hyllus has been intellectually bested and keeps going on like a broken record.

CyberSpec

02-19-2006, 11:35 PM

Yeah that's because the Muslims in America do not come here, build a mosque and say this is our land because our mosque is 300 years old. Even though you have lived here and we destroyed your church which was 600 years old. Please stop the crap.

What are you on about???

You're so brainwashed that it's useless even trying to discuss with you.

So according to you the Serbs are lying about their heritage???

Explain to me why don't you have an Albanian name for Kosovo and why is it that the place is full of serbian toponims and name places???

Hyllus

02-19-2006, 11:47 PM

You're so brainwashed that it's useless even trying to discuss with you.
No No No... You don't go there. Especially you. Hearing Serbs talking about others being brainwashed is TOO IRONIC to handle.

So according to you the Serbs are lying about their heritage???

Mostly yes, but not the part that says that all slavs came in the Balkans after the 6th century.

Explain to me why don't you have an Albanian name for Kosovo

We don't? For real? Does Dardania ring your bells?

why is it that the place is full of serbian toponims and name places???
Because you colonized it for centuries and changed all the names of every tiny village or street. You know how u do it. Now we are undoing it, by changing the names back to the original.

Pille1234

02-20-2006, 12:49 AM

All I have to say is: next time you Balkan ppl "negotiate" about borders, ethnics or property, keep the TV cameras out and the refugees in. Then you can butcher yourself as long as you want and noone will interfere. Take a lesson from the Africans in Darfur: they don't bother us with unappetizing TV reports or refugees and as a reward we let them kill 'until the job is done'.

CyberSpec

02-20-2006, 01:10 AM

Hyllus, you're one hell of a historian.

Dardania ha?...no doubt from your mythical "illyrian" ancestors right?...looking for your ancestors? I'll give you a hint...check out the Caucasus.

Why then don't you re-name Kosovo instead of misspeling it.

Metak

02-20-2006, 07:51 AM

And lets not forget the priest who was blessing the criminials in Bosnia before they went in a killing spree in Bosnia.

Don't know about muslims but some of our units use to visit priest prior the combat.

Yeah that's because the Muslims in America do not come here, build a mosque and say this is our land because our mosque is 300 years old.
Most of churches in Serbian province of Ksovo&Metohjia are older than 300 and they are built for religious purpose, not for claiming that our land is our land.

Even though you have lived here and we destroyed your church which was 600 years old. Please stop the crap.
It's not one single church, Albanian supremacists destoyed over hundred Christian shrines in Kosovo&Metohija.
http://www.kosovo.com/destruction.html

All I have to say is: next time you Balkan ppl "negotiate" about borders, ethnics or property, keep the TV cameras out and the refugees in. Then you can butcher yourself as long as you want and noone will interfere. Take a lesson from the Africans in Darfur: they don't bother us with unappetizing TV reports or refugees and as a reward we let them kill 'until the job is done'.

Agreed.If western media and politics hadn't interfered so much we would handle the problems alone and many s***s wouldn't happen at all. I guess no one has any geopolitical interest in Darfur so they are left on their own.

Dardania ha?...no doubt from your mythical "illyrian" ancestors right?...looking for your ancestors? I'll give you a hint...check out the Caucasus.

There are +10 pages of material which proves their real origin ( similar toponymes, potery, clothing etc...), here's in short:

According to many researchers/historians among them J.Wilkes and T.J.Winnifrith. The Albanians were enslaved and converted to Islam by the Arabs around the 8th cent. and taken from their original homeland that was in modern Georgia (Caucasus).
They were used in the Arab attacks on Sicily, dividing it into two parts, (hence there was the Kingdom of the two Sicilies). In order to populate their part of Sicily, the Arabs brought with them Old Albanians from the Caucasus. To this day, their descendants live in Sicily.
Then in 1042, the Byzantine Empire attacked the young Serbian state after having defeated the Arabs in Sicily and having brought the Sicilian Albanians under their command and Christianizing them. The leader of the Byzantines who led the Albanians was named Georgios Maniakos. Maniakos brought Albanian mercenaries from Sicily to fight the Serbs and they settled in two waves in modern day Albania, first the mercenaries came, and then came the women and children. After the defeat of Maniakos, the Byzantines would not let the Albanians return, thus the Albanians requested that the Serbs let them stay on the land. They settled under mount Raban and the city of Berat and from this, the Serbs called them "Rabanasi" or "Arbanasi". The city of Berat was known as Belgrad also, before the Albanians came to settle there. They mostly tended sheep and cattle and lent themselves out to Serbian nobles as brave soldiers.

Further proof of their being used by the Byzantines as mercenary troops, is their nation's flag. The doudle-headed eagle was always the symbol of the Byzantine empire used with a gold background, but the Byzantine war flag on the other hand, had a red background. (red was used so that the blood couldn't be distinguished and have a bad effect on the troops morale).

One of the greatest proofs that Albanians do come from the Caucasus and that they are not the descendants of the Ancient Illyrians is the Turkish name for the Albanians. "Arnauti", which means "those who have not returned" in Arabic, for the Turks were aware of the origins of the Albanians. And they truly did not return, they stayed in Serbian and Byzantine lands.

Another fact that must be concidered is Albanian language. It is totally alien to Messapic based on the insriptions found in tombs(so we come to the conclusion that either the Illyrian dialects had absolutely no connection to one another which is simply stupid or that they have no connection to the Illyrians).
Other facts found in their language is that the most ancient loanwords from Latin in Albanian have the phonetic form of eastern Balkan Latin, i.e. of proto-Rumanian, and not of western Balkan Latin, i.e. of old Dalmatian Latin. Albanian, therefore, did not take its borrowings from Vulgar Latin as spoken in Illyria. more proof that the Adriatic coast was not part of the primitive home of the Albanians is the maritime terminology of Albanian, it is not their own, but is borrowed from different languages.

When reading the Chechen language we see it is very similar to Albanian. They both have similar grammar and similar sounds such as SQ, PSHQ, which are not common in any IE languages, but are very common in Caucasus languages like Chechenian.
CHECHENIA=ICHQERIA
ALBANIA=SHQIPTERIA

.....

Hyllus

02-20-2006, 09:54 AM

Dardania ha?...no doubt from your mythical "illyrian" ancestors right?...looking for your ancestors? I'll give you a hint...check out the Caucasus.
LOL ... OK right ... Is that what they teach you in your Serbian school. Damn. Talking about propaganda. So what do they teach you about the ancestors of the Serbian people? Hmmmm I wonder if they say anything pre-6th century. I wonder why? I heard that they teach you that the ancestors of Serbians are Illyrian. I know you guys are really ashamed of your ancestors and try to twist everything around.

Why then don't you re-name Kosovo instead of misspeling it.
Don't worry. Independence first and then we weill do whatever we want.

Hyllus, you're one hell of a historian.
No I am not that interested in history. Most of the things I learned was in my history classes at school which aren't based in propaganda unlike in some other countries in the north and the south.

Agreed.If western media and politics hadn't interfered so much we would handle the problems alone and many s***s wouldn't happen at all.
Oh well ... TOO BAD you're just dreaming.

Don't know about muslims but some of our units use to visit priest prior the combat.

Did you kill unarmed clivilians too?

Most of churches in Serbian province of Ksovo&Metohjia are older than 300 and they are built for religious purpose, not for claiming that our land is our land.

Sure, is Serbdom a religious purpose too?

It's not one single church, Albanian supremacists destoyed over hundred Christian shrines in Kosovo&Metohija.
http://www.kosovo.com/destruction.html
So what? You destroyed thousands of chruches and mosques in Bosnia, Croatia and Kosva. Yeah nobody says anything aobut that. You burned and destroyed 30% of the houses in Kosova during the war. Yeah nobody says anything about that. You killed hundreds of thousands of people in the last 1990-1999. Nobody says anything about that either. But some churches get destroyed and everybody is like "OMG How could they do that to us?". But then I know you guys value churches more that the house burned and the civilians killed. I know. That's just you. It's not your fault.

There are +10 pages of material which proves their real origin ( similar toponymes, potery, clothing etc...), here's in short:

ROFL .... You got me laughing my a*s off. Damn. Do you have anymore? I want to see.

CyberSpec

02-20-2006, 10:31 AM

Ashamed of our past???:cantbeli:

If I was you, I might've been.........but then again there's always the "glorious" history of "Dardania" I can fall back on

I can't think of the name now, but there's a psychological deficency when someone projects their own deficencies onto others...looks to me like you might be exibiting some of the symptoms.

Hyllus

02-20-2006, 10:43 AM

I can't think of the name now, but there's a psychological deficency when someone projects their own deficencies onto others...looks to me like you might be exibiting some of the symptoms.
Sure, whatever makes you sleep at night.

Hyllus

02-20-2006, 10:53 AM

Talks on Kosovo future under way

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41352000/jpg/_41352602_flag203bafp.jpg

Mediators will push for a settlement to be reached this year

Kosovo Albanians and Serbs are holding long-awaited talks
which diplomats hope will resolve the final status of Kosovo
by the end of the year.

The province is still legally part
of Serbia and Montenegro - but it has been under UN
protection since Nato air strikes forced Serb troops out
in 1999.

Officials are meeting to talk about giving more power to
local government.

Kosovo Albanians, who make up the majority, want
independence. But Serbia is concerned about the Serb
minority.

UN-appointed mediators say any deal must reflect
what the majority wants. The two-day talks in Vienna
are the first face-to-face meeting between the Serbs
and Kosovo Albanians since last year, when the UN Security
Council appointed a special mediator to reach a settlement.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4731142.stm

Metak

02-20-2006, 10:59 AM

Wow Hyllus, in complete mental confusion you keep posting some crap which has nothing to do with quoted sentences above your replies, it seems that your only objective is to post a reply no matter how off topic it is. Try for change to post some real arguments (if you have any) and if you want to read more about pre Balkan history of Albanians i.e. 1043 open new thread about it, as I said there's a lot material to post.

Hyllus

02-20-2006, 11:04 AM

A new approach?

Today, on the streets of Belgrade, graffiti has appeared which appears all too
familiar: "Better war than occupation - we will never surrender Kosovo,''
reads one slogan.

But Serbs are war-weary.

Besides, the country's military and police have been massively diminished since
the Nato bombings of 1999.

Instead, Serbia's leaders will use the coming negotiations to try to regain some
control in Kosovo, with a hopeful offer of autonomy, not independence, for the
province.

And if it comes to independence, they want at least self-government for the
enclaves where many Kosovo Serbs - who make up little more than 5% of the
population - live.

There are also suggestions in Serbia of partitioning Kosovo, with parts of it
remaining in Serbia.

Sanda Raskovic-Ivic, the Serbian government's co-ordinator for Kosovo, is part
of the negotiating team.

"Nobody in Serbia expected independence after 1999,'' she says.
"We expected that the international community would bring peace and stability
to the region, would help Albanians to take their own future in their own hands
but within our state, within Serbia.''

Western diplomats scoff at such statements, and say that Serbia's leaders should
be doing more to prepare their people for the inevitable.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4730810.stm