Cold war tactic request

[LibertyUnites]

My german teacher in highschool mentioned a certain 'line' drawn up by Western powers during the cold war at which any Soviet military advance beyond this point would warrant a full scale north-to-south nuclear attack along a certain corridor to wipe out the advancing army... i believe he also said the corridor was chosen in valleys and such to minimize civilian casualties and concentrate devastation on the intended targets... has anyone heard of this or know what the line was called?

[AmericanImperialist]

I believe he's referring to the 'Fulda Gap' but I could be wrong.

[gadzook]

Yes it was the Fulda Gap. The idea was that the NATO's last stand would be made at the city limits sign of Frankfurt. In case of Soviet attack when I was stationed over there, we were supposed to get behind VII Corps on the west side of Frankfurt. I was stationed at Bad Aibling in Bavaria where there was also a company of US Special Forces soldiers. Instead of fleeing the base they would allow themselves to be overrun in the surrounding hills then wage a guerilla war from behind enemy lines. I found this fascinating because they had stockpiled huge caches of weapons and supplies all over the surrounding countryside. Anti tank rockets, land mines, explosives. The men in that unit could speak fluent German, Polish, Russian and dressed like German civilians down to their haircuts and oddball shoes.

[Jedburgh]

My german teacher in highschool mentioned a certain 'line' drawn up by Western powers during the cold war at which any Soviet military advance beyond this point would warrant a full scale north-to-south nuclear attack along a certain corridor to wipe out the advancing army... i believe he also said the corridor was chosen in valleys and such to minimize civilian casualties and concentrate devastation on the intended targets... has anyone heard of this or know what the line was called?
During my first enlistment, in the early '80s, I was assigned to an isolated tac nuke (8" SP Arty) detachment in western Turkey. The clearly stated and understood mission was to respond immediately with tac nukes if the Soviets attempted an amphibious landing to secure the Dardanelles.

Funny thing, we were a detachment of just 30 US troops - we worked closely with two Turk battalions. We controlled the nukes, they had the arty. What it boiled down to was that in case of the Soviets going for control of the Straits, they were ready to nuke their own territory.

[NicNZ]

Cold War tactics like that always amazed me. The sheer willingness to embark on utter devastation (both sides proposed "massive nuclear bombardment" as a viable option) is intriguing in itself and also the Soviet belief that their advance could be maintained even in the face of such extremely intense fire.

Can anyone actually explain (in as much detail as you like) how the Soviet advance was going to continue through a bombardment of tactical nuclear weapons?

[Asheren]

First wave would be made mostly from forces stationed across europe and satelite countries armies. Polish army exercised endless bridge making so they would rebuild them in diffrent place every time they nuke one. Many polish roads were build to serve as a temporal airfields. Long straight lines with curve on end and small parking lot. Many projects across communist countries were made to have additional military purposes. It was common to include shelters in various buildings(schools, hospitals, factories even civilian buildings). Main idea was that army will move faster than than they will be able to nuke them. You know human wave tactic.

[Jedburgh]

Here's a great website that gives you access to a number of primary documents and their translations on the topic:

Taking Lyon on the Ninth Day? The 1964 Warsaw Pact Plan for Nuclear War in Europe and Related Documents (http://www.isn.ethz.ch/php/collections/coll_1.htm)

[Son_Of_Suvorov]

Yes it was the Fulda Gap. The idea was that the NATO's last stand would be made at the city limits sign of Frankfurt. In case of Soviet attack when I was stationed over there, we were supposed to get behind VII Corps on the west side of Frankfurt. I was stationed at Bad Aibling in Bavaria where there was also a company of US Special Forces soldiers. Instead of fleeing the base they would allow themselves to be overrun in the surrounding hills then wage a guerilla war from behind enemy lines. I found this fascinating because they had stockpiled huge caches of weapons and supplies all over the surrounding countryside. Anti tank rockets, land mines, explosives. The men in that unit could speak fluent German, Polish, Russian and dressed like German civilians down to their haircuts and oddball shoes.

It seems that every NATO member had some sort of "stay-behind" program in place. The most (in)famous of these was Operation Gladio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio) in Italy. It would be interesting to know how many of these programs are still in existence, and what (if anything) they did to clean up the caches.

[Kicius]

Polish army exercised endless bridge making so they would rebuild them in diffrent place every time they nuke one.

In the last years of Cold War in Poland stationed only 2 russian divisions (90th Guards TD i 6th Guards MRD - not including air force etc.) . Second russian echelon stationed in eastern soviet republics. This means that this echelon had to cross whole polish territory on it's way to Paris ;-). That's why Poland had so many engineer and internal troops. The dark side of this solution was, that Poland could became very unhealthy place in case of war.

[NicNZ]

Altogether the operation will require the use of 131 nuclear missiles and nuclear bombs; specifically 96 missiles and 35 nuclear bombs. The first nuclear strike will use 41 missiles and nuclear bombs. The immediate task will require using 29 missiles and nuclear bombs. The subsequent task could use 49 missiles and nuclear bombs. 12 missiles and nuclear bombs should remain in the reserve of the Front.

Further to my earlier comment on massive nuclear bombardment.

I find myself wondering about the paragraph that mentions providing enough hospital beds for 18% of front line casualties. Sounds a bit grim but, I suppose, inevitable in huge scale combat.

It still isnt really clear to me how the Soviet advance was to continue through nuclear bombardment. I appreciate the plan was to eliminate the means of opposing nuclear strikes but that is hardly something to rely on. There must have been some contingency plan for resupplying and whatnot in the midst of radiation and ongoing strikes.

[WolverineBlue]

Anyone have any good stories about Reforger? My dad had some good ol' times in Germany.

[HoboWithAK]

It still isnt really clear to me how the Soviet advance was to continue through nuclear bombardment. I appreciate the plan was to eliminate the means of opposing nuclear strikes but that is hardly something to rely on. There must have been some contingency plan for resupplying and whatnot in the midst of radiation and ongoing strikes.

Easy. Radiation isn't going to hurt the tanks. Even with the limited NBC systems they had, it would kill the tankers. Once you roll through a place that just had a nuclear bomb go off, how many more hours can you be operational? 48, 72? That's enough to push through an attack, get out and have someone else take your place while you sit and wait to die at a hospital or camp somewhere.

[Asheren]

Besides you can't iradiate whole area. At last not in a way that you would recive lethal dose before you can travel past it.

[DANJANOU]

Anyone have any good stories about Reforger? My dad had some good ol' times in Germany.


Alright I officially feel old now :(

[NicNZ]

Easy. Radiation isn't going to hurt the tanks. Even with the limited NBC systems they had, it would kill the tankers. Once you roll through a place that just had a nuclear bomb go off, how many more hours can you be operational? 48, 72? That's enough to push through an attack, get out and have someone else take your place while you sit and wait to die at a hospital or camp somewhere.


Besides you can't iradiate whole area. At last not in a way that you would recive lethal dose before you can travel past it.

I suppose that answers my question.

How amazing it would be to be the person charting the sites of nuclear strikes. Imagine receiving transmissions from the front -- terrified, garbled, or otherwise -- reporting where nuclear strikes were taking place.

[Asheren]

I wouldn't call it amazing. Propably i wouldn't be able to call it at all because i would be a bunch of lose molecules flying in atmosphere. I live in one of possible ground zero zones in my city.

[NicNZ]

Well someone would have to report it otherwise how would Command know where units should and should not be directed?

[hauptman]

Here's a great website that gives you access to a number of primary documents and their translations on the topic:

Taking Lyon on the Ninth Day? The 1964 Warsaw Pact Plan for Nuclear War in Europe and Related Documents (http://www.isn.ethz.ch/php/collections/coll_1.htm)

Very great site, thanks.

Just one question: How would have Austria and Switzerland, two neutral countries, reacted while only a few hundred kilometers from their borders away the Soviets fire some nuclear bombs.
Just thought about ... the military capabilities of both countries aren't pretty good (or at least were) so they wouldn't stand a direct assault or border patrolling and securing.
So stay neutral? Or joining the NATO or turning against the western countries and associate with the Soviets?

I could only think of Switzerland as a very blackbox, just from tactical view but Austria (at least the northern-east parts of it) could be pretty easy to be seized by the Soviets.

[Asheren]

If my memory is correct there was a topic about such scenario long time ago.

[LibertyUnites]

wow thanks for all the info guys, i almost completely forgot i posted in this forum!