Waffen SS troops [Archive] - Page 2

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PeterG

02-27-2006, 12:01 PM

From : http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/malmedy_massacre.htm
"
In May 1946, Peiper and 70 of his men were put on trial. The charge stated
"That they willfully, deliberately and wrongfully permit, encourage, aid, abet and participate in the killing, shooting, ill treatment, abuse and torture of members of the armed forces of the United States of America."

Forty-three of those accused were sentenced to death and the rest received prison sentences. The death sentences were commuted to prison sentences and all the men were out of prison by the end of 1956."

If Peiper and 70 men were put on trial, and indeed found guilty of the worst massacre of US POWs in europe in WWII, why weren't they executed? All were out by '56..? Something is strange about this. I would have assumed they would have been summarily executed on the spot, after capture.

Freibier

02-27-2006, 12:02 PM

He219

02-27-2006, 12:12 PM

Don't forget about Cold War politics and the fact that a former 'ceremonial' SS Colonel became the first Director of NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center and was the chief architect of the Saturn V launch vehicle, the superbooster that would propel Man to the Moon.

;)

duck

02-27-2006, 12:17 PM

SS Fallshirmjager batallion 500 or 600

Mainly operated in the Balkans as an anti-Partisan unit? I know that they conducted a para assault on Tito's mountainside HQ at some point.

parabellum

02-27-2006, 12:21 PM

McLane

02-28-2006, 02:54 PM

One of the best and most interesting Threads for a while.... great great great. I don't want to say to much about politics and WaffenSS. But its hard to see this guys on these pics and the only thing you can see: "They murdered thousends...." (and not only soldiers). Damn, german history is very hard.... nargh...

OldRecon

03-02-2006, 04:03 PM

Mainly operated in the Balkans as an anti-Partisan unit? I know that they conducted a para assault on Tito's mountainside HQ at some point.
They had pretty high losses during the raid on the HQ of Tito at Drvar.
Of the 600 men of the SS para battalion 500 dropped at Drvar only 200 remainded to answer the roll call after the end of the battle.
Later reorganised with a new fill of replacement the battalion was rechristened SS para battalion 600 and was sent to Lithuanian front to fight the Soviets (and yet again to be slaugthered. In one book about German Fallschirmjaeger that I have there's a pic of 2 SS paratroopers with the sombre comment: "Lithuania, July 1944. The two sole survivors of one of the companies of the SS Para battalion at Kaven, near Memel.")
Good fighters, but I don't give much for their ethics.

OldRecon

03-02-2006, 04:09 PM

Ritterkreuz with Eichenlaub, Crossed Swords and (Diamonds?)
... who is this guy?

Edit:

Mr. Malmedy massacre himself, Lt. Col Joachim Peiper; should have known ...
He, did settle in the Ardennes some time after the war didn't he? And ended his life there by a quite brutal murder (burned alive or something like that?).

Sewen

03-02-2006, 05:15 PM

They had pretty high losses during the raid on the HQ of Tito at Drvar.
Of the 600 men of the SS para battalion 500 dropped at Drvar only 200 remainded to answer the roll call after the end of the battle.
Later reorganised with a new fill of replacement the battalion was rechristened SS para battalion 600 and was sent to Lithuanian front to fight the Soviets (and yet again to be slaugthered. In one book about German Fallschirmjaeger that I have there's a pic of 2 SS paratroopers with the sombre comment: "Lithuania, July 1944. The two sole survivors of one of the companies of the SS Para battalion at Kaven, near Memel.")
Good fighters, but I don't give much for their ethics.Is this the pic you're talking about?

As for my opinion on the SS:
their spirit sort of fascinates me, "If we show no mercy, no one will show mercy for us, this will force us to fight better", I feel like I gotta respect that somehow...
The same goes for the fallshirmjäger at Monte Casino:
"They're bombing the sh*t out of us? well, let's dig in in the rubble..."
"We're surrounded? Well, let them come and get us..."
That kind of spirit can be found with both the green devils and the (waffen) SS, it makes them great soldiers and I'll form my opinion on them based on that sooner than on politics or anything else...

eindhoven

03-02-2006, 06:18 PM

He, did settle in the Ardennes some time after the war didn't he? And ended his life there by a quite brutal murder (burned alive or something like that?).

He settled in Traves France after German postwar policies made it impossible for him to live there. He was murdered during an arson attack by French Communists who were never prosecuted. He had emptied his shotgun and revolver before being crushed by a collapsing beam and burning alive.

Peiper was nowhere near Malmedy during the massacre. The commander who was, Werner Poetschke, was killed in action in Hungary in 1945 and therefore couldnt stand trial. Poetschke was subordinate to Peiper who did, however, survive the war. Peiper along with other senior commanders such as General Sepp Dietrich were put on a show trial. Nearly all the sentences of death and life imprisonment were commuted when it was learned the prosecution performed mock hangings, beatings, deprivation and other high hand tactics to coerce confessions and implications against others.

eindhoven

03-02-2006, 06:23 PM

I have a knife like that, from my grandmom. How much would I get from eBay?

Try a couple of thousand.

Nyyperi

03-03-2006, 02:59 AM

Try a couple of thousand.
really? Now i'm considering...

Nick063

03-03-2006, 12:17 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/Todays%20Pix/more/3d94a847.jpg

thats not even peiper in that picture which is a common misconception.

vopros

03-03-2006, 02:04 PM

I found russian site about Joachim Sigismund Albrecht Klaus Arved Detlev Peiper (http://ss-peiper.narod.ru/main/gallery/gallery.html) (direct link to gallery, many photos, videos and documents...
sorry, all info on russian, if not opened go to "Галерея" from main page.)

eindhoven

03-03-2006, 02:10 PM

really? Now i'm considering...

Yes, really. If it's an honor dagger which is more elaborate than it will be worth much more. If you have the dagger hangers you will be happy.

PM me for details.

vopros

03-03-2006, 02:19 PM

1944, SS-Obersturmbannführer

eindhoven

03-03-2006, 03:11 PM

Here are some more of Peiper.

Personally, like Kurt Meyer, Max Wünsche and other charismatic officers in the W-SS, I feel he was a dynamic leader who was a bit haughty in command but not above his troops who he cared for deeply. He pioneered night time attacks within the W-SS and was appropriately awarded for his command decisions in the field.

I have video footage of him awarding Iron Crosses 2nd classes to some of his grenadiers at Kursk as well as him in Italy marching with 1.ss.Lah singing with the troops.

War can breed monsters. Peiper wasnt one of those. Wilhelm Monhke, who escaped true justice, was.

vopros

03-04-2006, 08:41 AM

Paul (“Papa”) Hausser SS-Obergruppenführer und Generaloberst der Waffen-SS

[/URL]
[URL=http://imageshack.us] (http://imageshack.us)

Luno

03-04-2006, 08:45 AM

i am not a expert on German off-road cars but is that a VW Schwimmwagen?

Big Lebowski

03-04-2006, 11:09 AM

your correct

hell

03-04-2006, 01:00 PM

I was digging through a site's images folder and came upon alot of old German/SS pics, I believe. Here are a couple of them:

[/URL]

[URL=http://imageshack.us] (http://imageshack.us)

According to some of the pic's labels, they are of Bosnian Muslims recruited by the Germans. Second pic is of a man named Amin Al Husseini, if that's any clue (I believe he may actually be from Palestine (I know, bad spelling). Can anyone confirm any of this? I've got access to alot more of these pictures, and almost all of them I've never seen before. Let me know if you guys want me to post more of them.

Schizo

03-04-2006, 01:02 PM

I was digging through a site's images folder and came upon alot of old German/SS pics, I believe. Here are a couple of them:

According to some of the pic's labels, they are of Bosnian Muslims recruited by the Germans. Second pic is of a man named Amin Al Husseini, if that's any clue (I believe he may actually be from Palestine (I know, bad spelling). Can anyone confirm any of this? I've got access to alot more of these pictures, and almost all of them I've never seen before. Let me know if you guys want me to post more of them.

Al Husseini was the Mufti of Jerusalem. You are correct.

hell

03-05-2006, 10:48 AM

I'll post a few more of the pics parabellum had originally posted of the Muslim SS. Sorry if any of these are re-posts:

[/URL]

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Mein Kampf translated into Arabic:

(http://imageshack.us)

(http://imageshack.us)

[URL=http://imageshack.us]

hell

03-05-2006, 10:55 AM

I've also found a load of images of German medals and insignia, here's an example:

There's alot of pics of medals/awards I've never seen before, alot of WWI and even some bavarian/prussian stuff. Anyone let me know if you want me to post more.

Hydro

03-05-2006, 10:58 AM

Guy in the middle "Can you see ze Doktor Jones through zat periscope? Ah, ve vill get ze ark yet"

oregongrunt

03-05-2006, 11:35 PM

oregongrunt

03-06-2006, 12:03 AM

I can't even imagine what close combat was like for these guys.

Ea$y-8

03-06-2006, 12:58 AM

For all of you who call the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS "cold blooded killers" I have the fallowing:

1) Corporal Johann Puntzel of the Heer who allowed 11 Luxembourgers to escape from execution after they were falsely accused of directing Allied bombing of the munition dumps in Luxembourg, 1940

2) Field Marshal Erwin Rommel who cuts the water rations of the soldiers of the Afrika korps so that the British and other Allied POWs could survive. He also did not execute British Commandos who fell into his hands in 1943 and 1944 despite the infamous KommandoBefehl by Hitler

3) The medical officer of the 9th SS Panzer Division Hohenstaufen who negotiated with the British paras to evacuate the wounded paratroopers into German hospitals for proper medical attention during the defeat of Operation Market Garden, 1944

4) Some French Alsation SS troopers from the 2nd SS Panzer Division Das Reich who allowed some of the children to escape from the massacre at Oradour Sur Glane in 1944

5) Untersturmfuhrer Michael Wittmann, the famous Tiger Ace and his crew of a StuG III helped to smothered burning russian tank that they had disable. Witmman also asked that the 2 surviving Russian crew who were burned be given proper medical treatment in 1943

6) Hauptmann Wilm Rosenfeld, who saved the life of the Polish-Jew Wladyslaw Spilzmann from the death of starvation (the film Pianist)

7) Wehrmacht doctors who gave medical assistance to wounded French and British troops during the drive to Dunkirk, 1940

8) Sturmbahnfuhrer Joachim Peiper who saved the life of a Jewish Rabbi in Berlin from deportation who was his pre-war neighbour. This Jewish Rabbi wrote a testimony for the defence of peiper during his trial at Dachau 1946

9) A Luftwaffe officer who personally protects a groups of Jewish Jazz musicians during the war (this story is somewhere else in this forum together with a picture)

10) The rescue of the British sailors from the HMS Glowworm which sinked after ramming the heavy cruiser KMS Admiral Hipper by the Germans

11) The rescue of the passengers and crew (mostly French) from a French liner which was sunk by the RAF in the Mediterannean by several Kriegsmarine vessels. The German commander of the flotilla was decorated for heroism by the French Navy after the war.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=39713&start=0

CANsoldier

03-06-2006, 03:07 AM

my opa was a SS soldier in '45
and no ima not a skin head or a nazi.

Johnny_H

03-06-2006, 03:33 AM

8) Sturmbahnfuhrer Joachim Peiper who saved the life of a Jewish Rabbi in Berlin from deportation who was his pre-war neighbour. This Jewish Rabbi wrote a testimony for the defence of peiper during his trial at Dachau 1946
This has actually been dis-proven, it was a show nothing else, Jochiem Peiper is actually documented as witnessing a gassing at a Concentration Camp, and having no reaction what so ever. There was a HUGE discussion about this very topic.

This is a post by
Jens Westemeier ( who wrote a bio on peiper and a revised edition coming out this year )
You can View his full statement here, and how he came by the evidence he has.
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=86720&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

Nyyperi

03-06-2006, 09:57 AM

Yes, really. If it's an honor dagger which is more elaborate than it will be worth much more. If you have the dagger hangers you will be happy.

PM me for details.Done.
it looks exactly like this but with this silverish thingy .

Just interrested to fing out what its worth. Not actually considering of selling it. My grandmom was a nurse in finnish wars and got it from a german soldier she saved.

hell

03-06-2006, 12:19 PM

More color pics, since they appear to be a crowd favorite. Sorry for any re-posts:

[/URL]

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(http://imageshack.us)

[URL=http://imageshack.us]

Groove

03-06-2006, 12:43 PM

my opa was a SS soldier in '45
and no ima not a skin head or a nazi.

May i ask if your grandfather immigrated to Canada after war ?

eindhoven

03-06-2006, 01:20 PM

Done.
it looks exactly like this but with this silverish thingy .

Just interrested to fing out what its worth. Not actually considering of selling it. My grandmom was a nurse in finnish wars and got it from a german soldier she saved.

You have an SS Chained Dagger roughly 1936-1938 and with the portepee it is known to collectors as the Full Glory.

If your blade has 'Meine Ehre Heißt Treue' than it is standard. If it has what looks like Himmlers signature than it was a presentation honor dagger.

Depending on what the blade says you are looking at $5000 to the later, $50,000

Here is an example of another Full glory from another collector.

sp2c

03-06-2006, 01:31 PM

For all of you who call the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS "cold blooded killers" I have the fallowing:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=39713&start=0
12. in 1944 Dieter von Choltitz refused to flatten Paris before retreating

eindhoven

03-06-2006, 01:50 PM

The Waffen-SS are about as trumped up as the Fallschirmjäger. I can write a litany of battles they lost and they lost more often than they achieved victory. They enjoyed brief successes and other than camoflage clothing didnt pioneer anything other than failed ideology.

The concept that they fought harder than Wehrmacht troops or were equipped better has long been put to bed. Otto Carius surived the war, wasnt SS, and had more kills than Mr. Impatient Wittman who lay smoking inside his turret because he didnt properly recon an area and didnt pay heed to a particularly menacing tree line. Wittman's rashness in combat goes way back to Russia even and more than once nearly cost him his life. He played the odds and finally lost taking a crew to valhalla with him.

Peiper was a good leader but a terrible human being. First and foremost he was a soldier and paid soldierly respects to his foes but he was also an ardent Nazi, believed as Hitler did that Germany betrayed itself, going so far as to leave Germany because it disgusted him postwar, and his pyhric death is hailed as something of a model for sacrifice, known amongst the SS as 'The last of the fallen', which is ironic considering the drum beat instilled into the Hitler Youth towards sacrifice. "It is good and right to die for ones Fatherland' Read some of the songs and you will see why the young lions of Germany bled themselves dry all over the fields and towns of France for a leader who simply viewed them as, 'Menschen-material' (Human Material)

Lurps

03-06-2006, 02:36 PM

Anyone have info/pics on the Finns that fought in SS-Jagdverband Skorzeny (SS-Fallschirmjäger-batallion 500)?

hell

03-06-2006, 02:42 PM

Closest thing I've found so far is: http://www.sklej.pl/model227_18972.html I assume its in polish, since its a polish website. Just appears to be about 1:16 models, so I'll keep digging.

hell

03-06-2006, 03:00 PM

Here's a site in Denmark that appears to specifically address that unit: http://www.chakoten.dk/ss-fsj500.html

This one appears to be in French: http://www.1939-45.org/articles/500ss.htm

That work for ya?

Lurps

03-06-2006, 03:17 PM

OldRecon

03-06-2006, 04:55 PM

Is this the pic you're talking about?

As for my opinion on the SS:
their spirit sort of fascinates me, "If we show no mercy, no one will show mercy for us, this will force us to fight better", I feel like I gotta respect that somehow...
The same goes for the fallshirmjäger at Monte Casino:
"They're bombing the sh*t out of us? well, let's dig in in the rubble..."
"We're surrounded? Well, let them come and get us..."
That kind of spirit can be found with both the green devils and the (waffen) SS, it makes them great soldiers and I'll form my opinion on them based on that sooner than on politics or anything else...

No!
I'm thinking of this pic:

hell

03-06-2006, 08:10 PM

More pics, some probably re-posts:

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larryzou

03-06-2006, 08:17 PM

great photos thinks.

v-twin

03-06-2006, 11:04 PM

Could you guys help me out with some shots/info on Romanian SS? I've looked on the Internet, but what I've found was very brief information.

hell

03-06-2006, 11:45 PM

This is what I've found so far. Not sure on it's accuracy; you're right, finding info about the Romanian SS is tough. I've found several pics of Romanian soldiers fighting alongside German forces on the Eastern front, but I cannot verify if any of them are SS units. Here's what I have so far:

The ethnic German community was very numerous and lived mostly in Transylvania and the Banat. Even after North-Western Transylvania was ceded to Hungary in 1940, there were still 542,000 Germans in Romania.

Seeking to enlarge the recruitment pool for his organization, Himmler naturally paid a lot of attention to the German ethnics in Transylvania. Thus, during the winter 1940/41, he launched the "1,000 Mann Aktion", through which he managed to recruit a first wave of one thousand volunteers, who were all incorporated in the "Das Reich" Division.

This, however, created some problems, because the Romanian law did not allow Romanian citizens to serve in other armies. Those who did risked to be treated like deserters or lose their citizenship. The main recruitment "tactic" was to invite groups of young German ethnics to Germany, where they joined the Waffen SS or other organizations.

But the number of volunteers was not very high, so an SS division was created especially for them: the 7th SS "Prinz Eugen" Mountain Division. This was put under the command of Arthur Phelps, a former vanatori de munte general in the Romanian army. In this unit served the majority of volunteers from the Romanian and Serbian Banat.

The losses of the 1942 campaign forced Berlin to pressure the Romanian government to allow the German ethnics to join the German military formations. During his meeting with Hitler in 1943, Antonescu agreed to allow them to serve in the Waffen-SS, without suffering any legal consequences. However, in the treaty signed in May 1943, the German ethnics already incorporated in the Romanian army that were officers or NCOs or trained specialists, were forbidden to do so.

By the end of 1943, an estimate of 60,000 Romanian citizens joined the Waffen-SS and another 15,000 the Wehrmacht and Organization Todt. The superior equipment and pay, plus the fact that their nationalist feelings made many Germans prefer these forces to the Romanian army. They served, mostly in the 7th SS "Prinz Eugen" Division and 8th SS "Florian Geyer" Division, but also in 11th SS "Nordland" Division, 17th SS "Götz von Berlichigen" Division and 18th SS "Horst Wessel" Division.

Another category of Romanian citizens that served in the Waffen-SS, were Romanian ethnics themselves. After the coup on 23 August 1944, a "government in exile" was established at Vienna, under the leadership of Horia Sima. In November 1944, Himmler decided to create the "Romanian National Army" from members of the Iron Guard (aka the Legion of the Archangel Michael) that had fled to Germany. However, these were too few: 120 were assigned for the new "government", 200 were sent to saboteur schools (see below) and only about 70-80 men remained. So they had to enlist POWs (most from the 4th Infantry Division), Romanians that were studying in Germany in August 1944 and were arrested afterwards, and deserters. Not all men joined because of their anti-communist beliefs. In fact the majority had to choose between starving in German camps and the German army. Frictions between the Iron Guard and Antonescu sympathizers among the "National Army" were frequent.

At the beginning of 1945, two regiments (each with two battalions) were ready for action. Horia Sima managed to convince the Germans not to use them against Romanian troops. The 3,000 men of the Waffen SS Grenadier Regiment Rumänische Nr. 1 saw action in Pomerania, north of Stettin, where they were almost completely wiped out. The second regiment was transformed into an AT regiment: Waffen SS Panzer-Zerstörer Regiment Rumänische Nr. 2. Despite the name, it was equipped with ... bicycles. They were all taken prisoners by the Western Allies in May 1945. A third regiment began training, but because the end was near, they were used mainly as work teams.

Alongside these regular units several commando groups were trained. One of them, consisting of 70 men, was trained in guerilla warfare at Korneuberg. Another one was trained by the Abwehr and then parachuted behind Soviet lines, where they carried out sabotage missions. The most important of these groups was the one subordinated to Skorzeny's SS Jagdverbände Sudost. They were suppose to take part in the March offensive in Hungary, which never actually took place. They participated, however, in several missions until the end of the war.

The majority of the Romanians fighting in the Waffen SS surrendered to the Western Allies, but some were sent back to Romania, where the new pro-Communist government would take care of them.

Bibliography:
1. Cornel I. Scafes, Horia V. Serbanescu, Ioan I. Scafes, Cornel Andonie, Ioan Danila, Romeo Avram: "Armata Romana 1941-1945", Bucharest 1995
2. Miroslav Techjman: "Voluntari romani in unitatile SS", Magazin Istoric 5/2000

Picture of Arthur Phleps:

[/URL]

Where I got this info: [url]http://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=44 (http://imageshack.us)

Let me know if this helps.

Ea$y-8

03-07-2006, 01:31 AM

hell_in_a_helmet, I love the pics you posted. woot woot woot if we still had a rep system you would get a +++ rep for that one!

Nyyperi

03-07-2006, 02:50 AM

You have an SS Chained Dagger roughly 1936-1938 and with the portepee it is known to collectors as the Full Glory.

If your blade has 'Meine Ehre Heißt Treue' than it is standard. If it has what looks like Himmlers signature than it was a presentation honor dagger.

Depending on what the blade says you are looking at $5000 to the later, $50,000

Thank you sir. No himmlers signature, just 'Meine Ehre Heißt Treue' .
Now i have see what other stuff i can find. (Someone offered me 100$ for it already...)

Edit: after talking with my aunt, apparently my grandmom was serving as a nurse in a hospital in Vienna, Austria, and was invited to a Himmler's dinner where a drunken SS-officer gave her the knife/dagger. Now I have to dig up more of this story and see if there is himmler's signature or not. This is getting intresting...

Edit2:Aunt called she found diaries my grandmom wrote in germany/austria. I'll get back with more info

Dakota435

03-07-2006, 08:19 PM

oregongrunt

03-10-2006, 04:21 AM

Great photos, I haven't seen most of them before.

Nyyperi

03-10-2006, 05:05 PM

[/URL]

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[URL=http://imageshack.us]

Here´s the pics of my dagger, so no carved Himmlers signature, too bad.
Again, anyone know to who these daggers were issued and how my grandmom might have got it?

hell

03-10-2006, 06:10 PM

Below are a large number of recruiting posters the SS used that I found. I've posted them because they're something you don't normally see. There appear to be some for Norway, Italy, Poland, France, Britain, Denmark, and others. I'm not trying to spread propaganda or promote the SS, just present a few unique pics. Sorry for the smaller size of the first ones.

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Vandervahn

03-10-2006, 10:43 PM

...

Here´s the pics of my dagger, so no carved Himmlers signature, too bad.
Again, anyone know to who these daggers were issued and how my grandmom might have got it?
Ok, I´m no expert on this so don´t take my word for granted, but the Portepée usually means that it was issued to an officer (and sometimes to a longer serving member of the SS). Try looking for a mark like this on the blade:

http://www.johnnyg.westhost.com/d312-SS-38-na-s.JPG

The first number is the manufacturer´s code, the second after the dash the year of forging. The older the better, because the metal parts of the hilt and scabbard were earlier made of Nickel and over time replaced by elements made of aluminium and nickel-coated iron which was cheaper. If it DOESNT have such an RZM mark as above it might be pre-1936 making it even more valuable; some can have the RZM logo with an additional manufacturer logo which indicates an "intermediate" period. The ebony wood of the scabbard and hilt naturally tend to crack over the years - that doesnt make it worthless as this is common, but obviously the better condition the wood is in, the greater the value.

Generally the quality of manufacture deteriorated over time because they switched from handmade to machine-built parts; nevertheless, if it is in good condition you probably could easily get in excess of $500 for it and a lot more if it is of the rarer, better made types.

How your Granny got it? There´s dozens of ways. Many SS soldiers simply threw theirs away to hide their past; maybe a relative of hers was a member of the SS, maybe she traded it for a loaf of bread and two eggs in the hard times after the war etc. etc. ...

I´d advise you to take better pictures of it and post them on WW2 boards such as the axishistory.com forums.

oregongrunt

03-14-2006, 03:29 AM

Those are some pretty cool posters.

Kitsune

03-14-2006, 04:22 AM

eindhoven wrote:
The Waffen-SS are about as trumped up as the Fallschirmjäger. I can write a litany of battles they lost and they lost more often than they achieved victory. They enjoyed brief successes and other than camoflage clothing didnt pioneer anything other than failed ideology.

The concept that they fought harder than Wehrmacht troops or were equipped better has long been put to bed. Otto Carius surived the war, wasnt SS, and had more kills than Mr. Impatient Wittman who lay smoking inside his turret because he didnt properly recon an area and didnt pay heed to a particularly menacing tree line. Wittman's rashness in combat goes way back to Russia even and more than once nearly cost him his life. He played the odds and finally lost taking a crew to valhalla with him.

Peiper was a good leader but a terrible human being. First and foremost he was a soldier and paid soldierly respects to his foes but he was also an ardent Nazi, believed as Hitler did that Germany betrayed itself, going so far as to leave Germany because it disgusted him postwar, and his pyhric death is hailed as something of a model for sacrifice, known amongst the SS as 'The last of the fallen', which is ironic considering the drum beat instilled into the Hitler Youth towards sacrifice. "It is good and right to die for ones Fatherland' Read some of the songs and you will see why the young lions of Germany bled themselves dry all over the fields and towns of France for a leader who simply viewed them as, 'Menschen-material' (Human Material)

I don't know why you consider German Fallschrimjäger as trumped up. Certainly they are not more so than Allied Paratroopers/Airborne. (I would say: less, but what the heck.)
As far as the elite status of the Waffen SS as a whole is concerned...there was none. Those 38 Waffen SS Divisions had an average combat efficiency that was not higher or possibly even lower than that of an average Wehrmacht unit.
As I pointed out before somewhere before: The Waffen SS reputation of being especially fearsome fighters stems largely from a rather small number of divisions. Mainly the 1st Waffen SS ("Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler"), the 2nd ("Das Reich"), possibly the 3rd ("Totenkopf") and then (certainly again) the 5th ("Wiking"). And these Divisions HAVE to be considered elite. That their equipment was on a completely different (and superior) level compared to the one of Wehrmacht outfits is plainly wrong. All of the mentioned Waffens SS divisions were well equpped, but they did not get any extravagant priority. Noteworthy is that atleast two Wehrmacht elite divisions, namely "Grossdeutschland" and "Panzer Lehr" got the best and newest stuff before any Waffen SS division did, even before LSAH.

Otherwise your post is simply dripping with poison. I don't know what your problems with Witmann are. He may have gone to Walhalla, but in that case he has quite a few guys serving him there, now. His hit list seems to suggest that he was an outstanding soldier. Or a very lucky one. (Napoleon once said: "I don't care wether my generals are able, as long as they have fortune"). And showing that he made mistakes only proves that he was a human being.

Thor

03-14-2006, 04:37 AM

Whoever you are quoting Kitsune that guy is dead wrong both in facts and reasoning.

The rivalry between Waffen-SS and Wehrmacht still exist it seems.. Some of the W-SS divisions were perhaps the best conventional fighting force ever seen. As for Fallschirmsjägers they deserve the at most respect, and not just for Monte Cassino.

oregongrunt

04-07-2006, 04:19 AM

Atlantic Friend

04-07-2006, 04:33 AM

According to some of the pic's labels, they are of Bosnian Muslims recruited by the Germans. Second pic is of a man named Amin Al Husseini, if that's any clue (I believe he may actually be from Palestine (I know, bad spelling). Can anyone confirm any of this? I've got access to alot more of these pictures, and almost all of them I've never seen before. Let me know if you guys want me to post more of them.

The man with the white headgear is the grand Mufti of Jerusalem, a key figurehead of Islam (even though Islam has no equivalent of a Pope at its head) which relentlessly supported Nazi Germany. The soldier he talks to are most probably from the predominantly Muslim Handschar Division, which was indeed formed with Bosnians.

psychoticweazel

04-13-2006, 01:55 PM

i bet your family or people from your city or village werent butchered by SS or Waffen SS ? Always keep in mind what they did to the civilians which in their eyes even werent humans at all or humans 2nd class.

So you immidiatly think every Waffen SS soldier is a butcher?
The Allies have also commited many warcrimes...so why are they alloud to reenact?

And the fact is that many Waffen SS divisions did NOT butcher civilians.....this was what the Einzatzgruppe did.

psychoticweazel

04-13-2006, 01:57 PM

Is that a real picture or reenactors?

My guess is that they are reenactors

Dronetek

04-13-2006, 03:02 PM

It's too bad the Nazis were so evil, because they just looked so damn cool.

Lt. James Anderson

04-13-2006, 05:15 PM

It's too bad the Nazis were so evil, because they just looked so damn cool.

They were soldiers and they fought for what they believed in. Always outnumbered and outgunned and always kicking azz!

un_swe

04-13-2006, 05:52 PM

That is company commander Perssons vehichle, and the dead trooper on the right is "giraffen" Johansson another Swedish volonteer.Pic taken during the battle for Berlin.
un_swe

afrographX

04-13-2006, 06:10 PM

I can't believe that this thread glorifying the Waffen SS is still open, while every thread only having a single pic of iraqi insurgents killing Americans gets locked instantly.

I say the Waffen SS was **** as was every German unit. Because every unit conrtibuted to Hitler's insane war.

Big Lebowski

04-13-2006, 06:39 PM

it's your history.. learn to live with it.

and imho i dont see alot of glorifying in this thread. yes theres some dicks.. but there always is. dont close the thread cause of them.

kawaiku

04-13-2006, 06:42 PM

Word to yo mutha

Dimebag

04-13-2006, 08:27 PM

Excellent pictures,Waffen SS one of the best figthing forces ever full stop.

~~~~

04-13-2006, 09:14 PM

Below are a large number of recruiting posters the SS used that I found. I've posted them because they're something you don't normally see. There appear to be some for Norway, Italy, Poland, France, Britain, Denmark, and others. I'm not trying to spread propaganda or promote the SS, just present a few unique pics. Sorry for the smaller size of the first ones.

none of those recruiting posters is from Poland. and you won't find any poster like this written in polish just because there is no way a Pole could enlist those bastards.

weź te łapy, chuju

CPL Trevoga

04-13-2006, 09:45 PM

Excellent pictures,Waffen SS one of the best figthing forces ever full stop.

SS are hardly the best, they were softies. The only reason they fought that hard was because nobody took them prisoners because of their crimes. :)
I tell you that they were the best killing and terrorizing civilians.

Guards, Airborne, USMC, Royal Marines those are truely best fighting forces. Even if some SS fought heroically, they reputation had been blackened by thier crimes.

towelie

04-13-2006, 09:52 PM

dat mutha ****a iz from da wez side fo sho

oregongrunt

04-14-2006, 12:02 AM

SS are hardly the best, they were softies. The only reason they fought that hard was because nobody took them prisoners because of their crimes. :)
I tell you that they were the best killing and terrorizing civilians.

Guards, Airborne, USMC, Royal Marines those are truely best fighting forces. Even if some SS fought heroically, they reputation had been blackened by thier crimes.
They were very tough fighters. Opposing forces would rather have fought the Wehrmacht. You should stop generalizing units.

Andrija-Sumadinac

04-14-2006, 12:17 AM

They were very tough fighters. Opposing forces would rather have fought the Wehrmacht. You should stop generalizing units.
That's because they were fanatics and criminals!

oregongrunt

04-14-2006, 07:47 PM

That's because they were fanatics and criminals!
What army wasn't back then, the Russians or Yugoslavians for example? Most armies back then had some, but I'm through arguing with you.

psychoticweazel

04-14-2006, 09:48 PM

What army wasn't back then, the Russians or Yugoslavians for example? Most armies back then had some, but I'm through arguing with you.

An interesting fact: If you would have asked an Italian back in 1944 in the area sorrounding Monte Cassino whome the Italians disliked most. It was not the Germans no in order they hated the Maroccans (whome fought under French command for the Allies) the most....why you ask? Well it is said that the Maroccans were raping the Italian citizens (and not just the women...no also the children and elderly). Then came the Germans then the Americans (because they could/would not stop chatting up the local girls
) I believe then the Brits (because they were thought of as quite greedy.

The allied soldiers that the Italians respected or even liked were the Polish forces and the Gurkahs. The Gurkhas were liked by the Italian population because they were friendly towards the civilians and they even had the decencie to ask the Italians if it was OK to talk to there women.

And whome of the Allied forces did the Germans feaar the most? The friendlyiest ones the Gurkhas and the Poles :).

I read this in a book...I will dig up the author and title for you soon so you will know I am not talking absolute @%$*!

Andrija-Sumadinac

04-14-2006, 11:16 PM

What army wasn't back then, the Russians or Yugoslavians for example? Most armies back then had some, but I'm through arguing with you.
Maybe but not on the level of the Waffen SS.

AIRBORNEJOCK

04-15-2006, 05:27 AM

An interesting fact: If you would have asked an Italian back in 1944 in the area sorrounding Monte Cassino whome the Italians disliked most. It was not the Germans no in order they hated the Maroccans (whome fought under French command for the Allies) the most....why you ask? Well it is said that the Maroccans were raping the Italian citizens (and not just the women...no also the children and elderly). Then came the Germans then the Americans (because they could/would not stop chatting up the local girls
) I believe then the Brits (because they were thought of as quite greedy.

The allied soldiers that the Italians respected or even liked were the Polish forces and the Gurkahs. The Gurkhas were liked by the Italian population because they were friendly towards the civilians and they even had the decencie to ask the Italians if it was OK to talk to there women.

And whome of the Allied forces did the Germans feaar the most? The friendlyiest ones the Gurkhas and the Poles :).

I read this in a book...I will dig up the author and title for you soon so you will know I am not talking absolute @%$*!

i think the fact that they feared the poles the most was probably due to the fact they never took germans prisoners not because they were nice to the local population.

Atlantic Friend

04-15-2006, 06:55 AM

Excellent pictures,Waffen SS one of the best figthing forces ever full stop.

Especially when fighting civilians...

mack pl

04-15-2006, 08:32 AM

i think the fact that they feared the poles the most was probably due to the fact they never took germans prisoners not because they were nice to the local population.

thats not true my friend ;)

JoeBlack23

04-15-2006, 09:02 AM

Meh, each side was pretty horrible in their own way, the Allies just won so history has given the Axis the bum wrap.

Man this is just beautiful to hear.....I am speach less......finally someone says it.:)

AIRBORNEJOCK

04-15-2006, 02:24 PM

thats not true my friend ;)

whatever sure its not,having spoke to polish veterans of cassino and arnhem who openly said they didnt take prisoners because they knew the germans wouldnt take them prisoners.
or what about the polish pilots in the raf who used to want to kill the pilots in german aircraft rather than just shoot down the aircraft.
at the end of the day its fair enough i would do the same if my country had been occupied,this is by no way a slur to the polish forces because they were quite a few allied divisions where your chances of making it to a pow cage werent great.....wars hell.

AIRBORNEJOCK

04-15-2006, 02:25 PM

Especially when fighting civilians...

at least the ss done some fighting.................as for france hmmmmmmmm.

AIRBORNEJOCK

04-15-2006, 02:27 PM

Maybe but not on the level of the Waffen SS.

apparentley the gulags werent opened up by the russians to form penal battalions...................60 years has past get over it.serbia ahs a good reputation for war crimes aswell.....................................milosovik?

AIRBORNEJOCK

04-15-2006, 02:28 PM

SS are hardly the best, they were softies. The only reason they fought that hard was because nobody took them prisoners because of their crimes. :)
I tell you that they were the best killing and terrorizing civilians.

Guards, Airborne, USMC, Royal Marines those are truely best fighting forces. Even if some SS fought heroically, they reputation had been blackened by thier crimes.

apparentley the 101st airborne took lots of pows....(sarchasm)

CPL Trevoga

04-15-2006, 03:15 PM

apparentley the 101st airborne took lots of pows....(sarchasm)

Don't get mad. SS was a politacal organization. Yes, they had guns and stuff, but they weren't Wehrmacht soldiers. That's their main distiction. They were military wing of Nazi party. Waffen (Weapons) SS. Geobels propoganda machine was so good that even now people think SS was some kind of super duper military organization.

psychoticweazel

04-15-2006, 03:50 PM

i think the fact that they feared the poles the most was probably due to the fact they never took germans prisoners not because they were nice to the local population.

This is not entirely true...well concerning the Monte Cassino battle theater.

And why would onbe fear another just because he is friendly towards the cicilion population?

Andrija-Sumadinac

04-15-2006, 03:53 PM

apparentley the gulags werent opened up by the russians to form penal battalions...................60 years has past get over it.serbia ahs a good reputation for war crimes aswell.....................................milosovik?
rofl rofl rofl :hug:

psychoticweazel

04-15-2006, 04:06 PM

Just reminds me of Kosovo! Serbs riding around in YPR's (Armoured Personel Carrier) that they had taken from the Dutch UN soldiers in Serbrenica

(http://www.imagedump.com/pics/403175.jpg)

v-twin

04-15-2006, 04:39 PM

imagedump does not allow direct linking.

Switek

04-15-2006, 04:59 PM

whatever sure its not,having spoke to polish veterans of cassino and arnhem who openly said they didnt take prisoners because they knew the germans wouldnt take them prisoners.
or what about the polish pilots in the raf who used to want to kill the pilots in german aircraft rather than just shoot down the aircraft.
at the end of the day its fair enough i would do the same if my country had been occupied,this is by no way a slur to the polish forces because they were quite a few allied divisions where your chances of making it to a pow cage werent great.....wars hell.

You should know few facts more. In Wehrmaht served many German citizens, Poles by origin from Upper Silezia and Pomerania, Polish territorries which belonged to Germany before WW2. Many of those soldiers escaped to Polish Armed Forces in the West and had been taken as a POW. I wonder how many would surrive if those what you wrote had been the truth. In fact there were a lot of cruel acts, but they were much more individual, not generall.

psychoticweazel

04-15-2006, 05:10 PM

imagedump does not allow direct linking.
Thnx for the warning. Should have read the terms etc, etc

I will repost the pics later.

Musashi

04-15-2006, 05:13 PM

whatever sure its not,having spoke to polish veterans of cassino and arnhem who openly said they didnt take prisoners because they knew the germans wouldnt take them prisoners.
BS as general. I was watching a program in the Polish TV, where German television (probably ZDF) claimed the Poles had killed wounded German paratroopers after the battle of Monte Cassino. Fortunately a German paratrooper, who had been there came to the studio and said it was a BS. It happened in the 70ties.
Poles were prone to killing on the spot:
- SS soldiers,
- Gestapo officers,
- Dirlewanger's bandits,
- guards of concentration camps,
- traitors.
Anyone other captured (I mean mainly Wehrmacht soldiers) had a big chance to survive.

or what about the polish pilots in the raf who used to want to kill the pilots in german aircraft rather than just shoot down the aircraft.
It's true that the pilots of Polish 303rd Squadron killed a few Luftwaffe pilots (not more than 7), who bailed out and fell with parachutes during the battle of Britain in 1940. But it was NOT a common practice!!! They did just the same, what the Luftwaffe pilots were doing in Poland.
BTW,
Polish 303rd Squadron was the top fighter squadron during the battle of Britain with 126 1/2 confirmed kills. No other squadron had even a close result.

AIRBORNEJOCK

04-16-2006, 12:00 AM

everyone on this thread needs to get a grip waffen ss done some dirty stuff the allies didnt have the sun shining out their arses...............it was 60 years ago if you dont want to look at pictures of the ss **** off and dont click onto that thread..........simple.

AIRBORNEJOCK

04-16-2006, 12:02 AM

rofl rofl rofl :hug:

whats that in your avatar some civilians getting machine gunned?

AIRBORNEJOCK

04-16-2006, 12:03 AM

BS as general. I was watching a program in the Polish TV, where German television (probably ZDF) claimed the Poles had killed wounded German paratroopers after the battle of Monte Cassino. Fortunately a German paratrooper, who had been there came to the studio and said it was a BS. It happened in the 70ties.
Poles were prone to killing on the spot:
- SS soldiers,
- Gestapo officers,
- Dirlewanger's bandits,
- guards of concentration camps,
- traitors.
Anyone other captured (I mean mainly Wehrmacht soldiers) had a big chance to survive.

It's true that the pilots of Polish 303rd Squadron killed a few Luftwaffe pilots (not more than 7), who bailed out and fell with parachutes during the battle of Britain in 1940. But it was NOT a common practice!!! They did just the same, what the Luftwaffe pilots were doing in Poland.
BTW,
Polish 303rd Squadron was the top fighter squadron during the battle of Britain with 126 1/2 confirmed kills. No other squadron had even a close result.

okay im talking ****e (apparentley)

Andrija-Sumadinac

04-16-2006, 12:04 AM

whats that in your avatar some civilians getting machine gunned?
No actually it's of an Serbian MUP officer defending his position from attack in the Presevo valley 1999. You Scots are even bigger racists and into Nazi's than you're English brethren.

Andrija-Sumadinac

04-16-2006, 12:04 AM

okay im talking ****e (apparentley)
Not apperentley.

AIRBORNEJOCK

04-16-2006, 12:09 AM

No actually it's of an Serbian MUP officer defending his position from attack in the Presevo valley 1999. You Scots are even bigger racists and into Nazi's than you're English brethren.

before or after he **** his pants from the nato advance?

ofcourse we are,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.........?whats that meant to mean?

AIRBORNEJOCK

04-16-2006, 12:18 AM

You should know few facts more. In Wehrmaht served many German citizens, Poles by origin from Upper Silezia and Pomerania, Polish territorries which belonged to Germany before WW2. Many of those soldiers escaped to Polish Armed Forces in the West and had been taken as a POW. I wonder how many would surrive if those what you wrote had been the truth. In fact there were a lot of cruel acts, but they were much more individual, not generall.

as i already said it wasnt a dig against the poles they were among the best allied formations going statistically as a german (if i had to choose) it wouldnt be a polish unit i would be taken pow by.

v-twin

04-16-2006, 12:50 AM

Can you ladies drop it? Both sides sucked. Allies won the war, now let us enjoy the fsking pictures without everyone whos ass was kicked by the Germans back then crying and calling them murderes, madmen and everything? If the Germans would've won we would call the 101st a bunch of butchers.

For God's sakes, just shut up.

mack pl

04-16-2006, 05:37 AM

as i already said it wasnt a dig against the poles they were among the best allied formations going statistically as a german (if i had to choose) it wouldnt be a polish unit i would be taken pow by.

we know what do you meant my friend, but you have to understand that there is few Poles who dont like generalisations and simplistic sentences about our participation in WW II :)

take care

AIRBORNEJOCK

04-16-2006, 06:43 AM

Andrija-Sumadinac

04-16-2006, 11:42 AM

before or after he **** his pants from the nato advance?

ofcourse we are,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,.........?whats that meant to mean?
Yeah the NATO which left our ground forces in Kosovo %98 intact. rofl

It's meant to mean I know what kind of ****ing racists and bigots you can be, considering we had a couple hundred skinhead/neo-nazi ****s fighting for the Croatians here in 91-93 I am not suprised by your attempts to defend the Waffen SS. And you bringing in comments about machinegunning children and slobo is just sad.

psychoticweazel

04-16-2006, 02:25 PM

Yeah the NATO which left our ground forces in Kosovo %98 intact. rofl

It's meant to mean I know what kind of ****ing racists and bigots you can be, considering we had a couple hundred skinhead/neo-nazi ****s fighting for the Croatians here in 91-93 I am not suprised by your attempts to defend the Waffen SS. And you bringing in comments about machinegunning children and slobo is just sad.

But try looking at the bright side! I mean Hitler had an all european army (waffen SS). And now we are having alot of trouble trying to do the same (European Quick Reaction Force).

psychoticweazel

04-16-2006, 02:32 PM

Here are a few pictures I scanned of TinTin as Waffen SS soldier and Hitlerjugend.

~~~~

04-16-2006, 03:16 PM

Here are a few pictures I scanned of TinTin as Waffen SS soldier and Hitlerjugend.

holly****!!! what's this?!? I would never suppose TinTin to be a collaborator!!! can't be... it must be fake.

psychoticweazel

04-16-2006, 03:26 PM

holly****!!! what's this?!? I would never suppose TinTin to be a collaborator!!! can't be... it must be fake.

This is a 100% authentic Tin Tin book. Tin tin is also depicted as GI, Tommy, Japanese, French and Italian.
It's a book about WWII planes illustrated by Herge.
And Herge did work for the Germans when Belgium was occupied.
But this book is from 1953.

~~~~

04-16-2006, 03:33 PM

This is a 100% authentic Tin Tin book. Tin tin is also depicted as GI, Tommy, Japanese, French and Italian.
It's a book about WWII planes illustrated by Herge.
And Herge did work for the Germans when Belgium was occupied.
But this book is from 1953.

incroyable...

Mudd

04-17-2006, 02:34 AM

I have SS family in Paraguay...

When they left Germany they couldnt come to Canada because of a tattoo they had under their left arm.

~~~~

04-17-2006, 09:07 AM

I have SS family in Paraguay...

When they left Germany they couldnt come to Canada because of a tattoo they had under their left arm.

do you know their exact address there in Paraguay?

Jippo

04-17-2006, 09:20 AM

do you know their exact address there in Paraguay?

Idiot!

Pictures please enough of fcuking politics! If you think your side was much better you are wrong, no matter where you are from.

-jippo

~~~~

04-17-2006, 10:53 AM

Idiot!

Pictures please enough of fcuking politics! If you think your side was much better you are wrong, no matter where you are from.

-jippo

talk to the hand...

Switek

04-17-2006, 11:07 AM

Idiot!

Pictures please enough of fcuking politics! If you think your side was much better you are wrong, no matter where you are from.

-jippo

There is no matter which side won WW2. The probem is that SS is acknowledged as a criminal organization by all countries belonging to UN.
I admit that there is a rather historical discussion otherwise In my country I was oblidged to inform prosecutors.

Jippo

04-17-2006, 11:17 AM

There is no matter which side won WW2. The probem is that SS is acknowledged as a criminal organization by all countries belonging to UN.
I admit that there is a rather historical discussion otherwise In my country I was oblidged to inform prosecutors.

So would be NKVD, Bomber Command etc.. had the other side won! There is a political rants section in this forum, this section is for photos.

-jippo

~~~~

04-17-2006, 11:25 AM

So would be NKVD, Bomber Command etc.. had the other side won! There is a political rants section in this forum, this section is for photos.

-jippo

I don't know what is Bomber Command, but certainly NKVD isn't anyway better nor respect worthy than SS.

Jippo

04-17-2006, 11:30 AM

Only about one fourth of the total length of the wall is visible. A machine gunner crouches over a model 1919A4 machine gun, center foreground. The four German soldiers still standing and three or four of their fallen comrades at left who are still alive were shot only seconds after this photo was taken. A hospital building can be seen at right. (Photo by Arland B. Musser, US Signal Corps. Courtesy National Archives, Washington D.C.)

A war crime, such as any similar action. But there is much less ranting about such things amongst the allied troops.

-jippo

Jippo

04-17-2006, 11:35 AM

I don't know what is Bomber Command

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Bomber_Command

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Travers_Harris

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Pforzheim_in_World_War_II

-jippo

Pvt.Anderson

04-17-2006, 11:57 AM

Waffen SS were only feared due to their fanatical craze for Nazism. While they were usually the best supplied and best fed they were remarkably mediocre as soldiers. You can look through the battle histories of various SS units and see that they were chopped to pieces just as fast as conscript units from occupied countries.

It's interesting that in THE REAL WORLD, the one outside of the internet, the world views the Waffen SS as butchers, murderers and killers. Most SS talk surrounds snappy outfits, totenkopf patches and shiny boots. How lame.

Walk the battlefields of the Ardennes and you will see acres and acres of perfectly manicured cemeteries with the graves of fallen Allied soldiers.

The German cemeteries are largely unkept, ugly and overgrown. Germans, here is the resting place of your superhuman super race. Germans, here lies the graves of your best-of-the-best Ardennes soldiers. Here they are. Forgotten for good reason. Killed by lowly hick American farmboys and hillbillies.

Why don't proud Germans take care of their war dead like other countries? Arent there any Germans proud of all that their country accomplished in World War II? Or is it all just anonymous talk?

2 words : sad asshole

Jippo

04-17-2006, 12:19 PM

thank you. howether you should remember that those weren't the Allies (except USSR) that pushed the world into war nor started commiting bestial war crimes...
>>> "who fights by the sword..."

I know this very well, and I won't take sides on this. I just want to see pictures.

-jippo

Atlantic Friend

04-17-2006, 01:11 PM

at least the ss done some fighting.................as for france hmmmmmmmm.

As for France 100,000 French soldiers dies between September, 1939 and June, 1940. And 100,000 to 200,000 more fell, along with a similar number of US troops, and British troop, and a much much larger number of Soviet troops trying to rid the world from these oh-so-admirable SS.

It's really sad you can't muster more admiration for THESE soldiers, man...

Pvt.Anderson

04-17-2006, 02:48 PM

As for France 100,000 French soldiers dies between September, 1939 and June, 1940. And 100,000 to 200,000 more fell, along with a similar number of US troops, and British troop, and a much much larger number of Soviet troops trying to rid the world from these oh-so-admirable SS.

It's really sad you can't muster more admiration for THESE soldiers, man...

Honour and respect to the fallen of >>both<< sides

Hukatus

04-18-2006, 07:17 PM

there were many Waffen-SS units that had very little to do with warcrimes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Division_Das_Reich

The division is infamous for the massacre of 642 French civilians in the village of Oradour-sur-Glane, on 10 June 1944. Apart from this, Das Reich was of the front-line SS divisions that had an illustrious, mostly crime free career. Only the Regiment "Der Führer" was held responsible for the massacre.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Division_%28motorised%29_Wiking

While the division's record is clear of official War Crimes convictions, it was a part of the Waffen-SS, which was found to be a criminal organization at the Nuremburg Trials.

Dimebag

04-18-2006, 08:14 PM

Everyone killed innocent or pows during the war, since the begining of time is has been like that, whats the big problem stop been so cynical and post some frigging pictures,as for the nuremburg trials it serverd it purpose to avenge an enrage world for the mass killings but apart from that it has been proved that most of the confession on non seniors officers were obtain under torture an example is the case of Kurt "Panzer" Meyer who was acussed of killing of canadian pows in france he was found guilty and gave him life but after 5 years in prison he was freed cause of the charaded of a trail he had.
In the heat of battle men do horrible things no matter what believe you have.
Those pictures of the Dachau camps not many people has seen them as it shows the killing of nearly 400 surrended waffen ss men by american soldiers,most of them were drag out from the nearby hospital and shot.

Pvt.Anderson

04-21-2006, 09:06 PM

Don't get mad. SS was a politacal organization. Yes, they had guns and stuff, but they weren't Wehrmacht soldiers. That's their main distiction. They were military wing of Nazi party. Waffen (Weapons) SS. Geobels propoganda machine was so good that even now people think SS was some kind of super duper military organization.

ok u make them look like they were monkeys with weapons , but still some can be considered elite like the 1st ( LSAH ) 2nd ( Das Reich ) and 3rd ( Totenkopf ) SS Divisions

oregongrunt

04-21-2006, 09:44 PM

ok u make them look like they were monkeys with weapons , but still some can be considered elite like the 1st ( LSAH ) 2nd ( Das Reich ) and 3rd ( Totenkopf ) SS Divisions
They did help the Wehrmacht overun almost all of Europe after all. The least you can do is give them a little credit as a fighting force.

Atlantic Friend

04-22-2006, 08:03 AM

Honour and respect to the fallen of >>both<< sides

I'm sorry, but while I can and do mourn the death of German, Italian or Japanese WW2 soldiers, I'll never ever honor fallen SS.

As for respect, I'll show the same respect that one is expected to give dead human beings, even though members of the criminal SS organization certainly did their best to free themselves from the bonds of decency, civilization and humanity.

This said, I think it is a good thing for people to gain knowledge about the SS, from these pictures and from books and personal testimonies. Hopefully it will dispel some myths, show that such men were neither Nordic semi-Gods nor demons ecaped from another dimension, but men who deliberately chose a path that led to so much destruction of human life. Hopefully it'll make us a little more conscious of how History could repeat itself.

Crazyjack

04-22-2006, 08:17 AM

Nice posting Atlantic Friend.

Pvt.Anderson

04-23-2006, 06:59 PM

I'm sorry, but while I can and do mourn the death of German, Italian or Japanese WW2 soldiers, I'll never ever honor fallen SS.

As for respect, I'll show the same respect that one is expected to give dead human beings, even though members of the criminal SS organization certainly did their best to free themselves from the bonds of decency, civilization and humanity.

This said, I think it is a good thing for people to gain knowledge about the SS, from these pictures and from books and personal testimonies. Hopefully it will dispel some myths, show that such men were neither Nordic semi-Gods nor demons ecaped from another dimension, but men who deliberately chose a path that led to so much destruction of human life. Hopefully it'll make us a little more conscious of how History could repeat itself.

Of course "honor" for SS troups is , well , simly not fitting , but one can still RESPECT them , since surely as you know not all have been die hard nazis in the SS and is just as generalizing as whatever all poles steal cars .

You are right about the Nordic semi gods and stuff but well who maintained they were ?
The dangerous thing is that they were obeying most of the orders given by the most brainsick dictator in history ( next to the soviet counterpart J.S )

CieńPolski

05-27-2006, 07:37 PM

I have a Waffen SS camo cover.. It's really neat, and original!

Hiroshima

05-28-2006, 12:45 AM

I have a Waffen SS camo cover.. It's really neat, and original!

Got any pictures of it?

Having dug through all the pages in this thread, I gotta say wow, I've never seen a good number of these pictures, and some of the discussion that's related to the pictures to be pretty neat. Any more pictures guys?

Cornfield

06-01-2006, 06:38 PM

Here some pictures of waffen ss covers. Enjoy.

Dimebag

06-01-2006, 10:53 PM

The M44 dot camo jacket is my favorite of all the patterns the waffen SS
used, the guy in the 1st picture is using one.

Schuster

06-01-2006, 10:58 PM

I have a Waffen SS camo cover.. It's really neat, and original!

Wow, i Really wish i had a peice of history like that

Telnyashka

06-02-2006, 04:05 AM

PeterG

06-02-2006, 05:06 AM

I respect the conscription Waffen SS troops who had no other choice (and they were exempt from Nuremburg's sentence of criminal organization).

As for the volunteers...no respect, disgusting human beings.

There was quite a few norwegians who volunteered - like those in the norwegian legion, because they wanted to fight alongside our neighbours in Finland who were savagely attacked by the soviet union. 'Disgusting'..? How would you characterize the NKVD troops..? Were they a 'criminal organization'..? Personally, i have some measure of 'respect' for anyone who volunteers and put their lives on the line for something they believe in. Even those who represent a political system or nation i loathe.

InetWarrior

06-02-2006, 06:02 AM

Disgusting nazis...

Jelle H.

06-02-2006, 06:03 AM

There was quite a few norwegians who volunteered - like those in the norwegian legion, because they wanted to fight alongside our neighbours in Finland who were savagely attacked by the soviet union. 'Disgusting'..? How would you characterize the NKVD troops..? Were they a 'criminal organization'..? Personally, i have some measure of 'respect' for anyone who volunteers and put their lives on the line for something they believe in. Even those who represent a political system or nation i loathe.

Ok, You have respect for SS beasts. I don't.

PeterG

06-02-2006, 06:59 AM

Ok, You have respect for SS beasts. I don't.

Some measure of 'respect' for anyone who fights and risks his life for what he believes in, yes. Does that mean i necessarily 'like' the same person? - No. Some might be incapable of grasping such a concept, but there you go.

Jelle H.

06-02-2006, 07:53 AM

Some measure of 'respect' for anyone who fights and risks his life for what he believes in, yes. Does that mean i necessarily 'like' the same person? - No. Some might be incapable of grasping such a concept, but there you go.

Ok, You respect Osama & other terrorist scum who 'fights and risks his life for what he believes in'.

I dont.

Hiroshima

06-02-2006, 08:06 AM

That's enough Jelle. We've already been over this earlier in the thread.

Now, back on topic: The Tiger with the anti-mine armor has to be one of my favorite pictures. I'd love to try to model that sometime for Flames of War.

M_S

06-02-2006, 08:09 AM

Ok, You respect Osama & other terrorist scum who 'fights and risks his life for what he believes in'.

I dont.

"Respect your enemy", you must learn to separate between different kinds of "respect".

You respect your enemy by the way of (example) not assuming he/she is totally inferior to you, many battles have been lost partially due to lack of respect.

InetWarrior

06-02-2006, 09:09 AM

"Respect your enemy", you must learn to separate between different kinds of "respect".

You respect your enemy by the way of (example) not assuming he/she is totally inferior to you, many battles have been lost partially due to lack of respect.

Bad example... Yu do not need to respect your enemy. You only need properly estimate their capabilities. Nothing to respect in a beast who does not have a mercy to civilians and POW...

Kalasj

06-02-2006, 09:52 AM

InetWarrior, have you read his last sentence?

@Jelle H, since you're a member of the Dutch WWII forums aswell, you might take a look at the debate there, especially the final post:
http://forum.wo2.nl/viewtopic.php?t=1768&start=225

Hiroshima

06-02-2006, 04:05 PM

.... You know, while these are pictures of the Waffen SS, it doesn't exactly fit the theme of the thread. And yes, that is an awfully nice hat and I wouldn't mind owning one myself. It'd go well with the reproduction (at least I think it's a reproduction) of a WW2 German dog tag (and again, I think it's a dog tag).

v-twin

06-02-2006, 04:31 PM

Weren't these pictures posted already and it was established they were Einsatzgruppen?

Hiroshima

06-02-2006, 04:34 PM

Actually, yes v-twin. I was just playing along with him.

Taekwondo

06-02-2006, 05:13 PM

Just answer this:

what was wrong with the Finns volunteering into the SS to fight those who had attacked their country (the attacker at the time being a nazi ally, in fact...) and taken their homes? Finnish SS-men who fought against imperialism and ethnic cleansing?

Not everybody in the SS was a hardcore nazi, some joined the Waffen-SS with the same motives as someone signes up with the US marines, FFL or UN peacekeepers...adventure and a chance to see something completely different from their normal lives. Some didn't even have those lives anymore when joining. Especially guys like Lauri Törni, or Larry Thorne, US decorated hero.

Ngati Tumatauenga

06-02-2006, 06:21 PM

Bad example... Yu do not need to respect your enemy. You only need properly estimate their capabilities. Nothing to respect in a beast who does not have a mercy to civilians and POW...

You're obviously not a professional soldier.

Telnyashka

06-02-2006, 06:43 PM

ClydeFrog

06-03-2006, 05:44 AM

Stop the stupid al-Qaeda comparisons. There's a significant difference. The soldiers in the Waffen-SS were just that: soldiers. We all know they commited atrocities against the civilian population and I'm not downplaying that, but still their primary target was the Red Army... unlike al-Qaeda who's primary target are civilians.

Canuck Farrier

07-01-2006, 04:43 PM

just to point out the SS werent the only organization to murder civilians and pows.Look at how many German civilians the RAF RCAF and 8th AF killed with the firestorm bombings in Nouremburg,Hamburg and Dresden.the door swings both ways.The Red Army wasnt any better when they had the chance to murder German civilians.

thefusilier

07-02-2006, 11:49 AM

These are really great photos. And just because you like to see them dosn't mean you love what 'some' people in this organization did. And I say some since as its been said here many times not all were guilty of a war crime... so why paint the whole organization the same. I mean American soldiers killed civilians and POWs intentionally during WW2 too but that dosn't change how people look at them does it? Again, thanks to all who put up the pictures.

zepic

07-02-2006, 03:24 PM

[KGW]Hartmann

07-02-2006, 03:51 PM

My own pic´s.

In 1945 on the estern front.
And the second is latvian Waffen ss in Dott 44 where i dont know.

Ivan1

07-03-2006, 09:25 AM

...I mean American soldiers killed civilians and POWs intentionally during WW2 too but that dosn't change how people look at them does it?...That’s true, but American war crimes were of much smaller scale and were not undertaken to exterminate a whole nation! That’s the difference.

In Ardennes, January 1945, some 50 German POW were executed. After the liberation of Dachau, many of the German guards were shot, some of them beaten by the inmates. Many of the 17. Panzer Grenadier Division SS members were executed as well. These are some of the cases that came to my mind. Now, do you think it is comparable to what the Germans did on eastern front? No way!

German guards surrendering to American soldiers

Waffen-SS soldiers were executed by American liberators of Dachau

Dachau inmate prepares to beat a guard to death with a shovel

Waffen-SS soldiers wearing battle fatigue uniforms were killed at Dachau

US Soldiers inspect the bodies of 12 dead SS soldiers in the coal yard

Switek

07-03-2006, 09:39 AM

Waffen-SS soldiers were executed by American liberators of Dachau

Can we recognize it as war crime? During the war officers can perform as a martial court. The evidences of SS crimes in Dachau were obvious. We can add relations of just liberated prisoners and we got the sentence. The matter is closed...

Jippo

07-03-2006, 09:47 AM

Can we recognize it as war crime? During the war officers can perform as a martial court. The evidences of SS crimes in Dachau were obvious. We can add relations of just liberated prisoners and we got the sentence. The matter is closed...

It is a war crime no two words about it. Officers do not have the privilege to choose to kill an enemy combatant for any reason before a real trial. Sorry but this is strictly against Geneva Convention, no matter what happened before.

-jippo

thefusilier

07-03-2006, 11:17 AM

That’s true, but American war crimes were of much smaller scale and were not undertaken to exterminate a whole nation! That’s the difference.

Yes there is a difference there for sure. But I was just trying to say that depite the final solution and the East Front atrocitites, not all SS were guilty of crimes, especially extermination. Atrocities happened from the Allies too as I said, but but we don't think of them the same do we? Probably in part is as you said 'that they were smaller scale' is one reason I guess.

And exterminate a whole nation... no... but Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki are big cities.

Also at Dachau a number of the soldiers were not Totenkopf camp gaurds but wounded Waffen SS soldiers housed there at the hospital. They didn't have any thing to do with what was going on at the camp.

And I dont just mean Dachau... there is the Canicatti slaughter, which was a war crime committed by US forces during the invasion of Sicily in July 1943. The town of Canicatti had already surrendered when U.S. troops entered, following heavy German bombardment during their withdrawal. Civilians (including some children) had been rounded up and herded into a bombed soap factory where they were shot by U.S. soldiers. The incident was covered up fearing that it may lead to reprisals from the civilian population.

And also The Biscari massacre which was a war crime committed by American troops during World War II, where 76 unarmed German and Italian prisoners of war were massacred at Biscari in 1943. Patton tried to get Bradely to change the facts so that the US troops wouldn't be found guilty but Bradely refused.

Ok, I never intended to start fueling the fire against the allies either. I hope my little point go across as I intended it to be. Which was along the lines of why should there be something wrong with people posting these pictures?

Sergei

07-03-2006, 12:14 PM

what about paratroopers?both british and german

What about soviet recon?

Andeh

07-03-2006, 12:21 PM

Yes there is a difference there for sure. But I was just trying to say that depite the final solution and the East Front atrocitites, not all SS were guilty of crimes, especially extermination. Atrocities happened from the Allies too as I said, but but we don't think of them the same do we? Probably in part is as you said 'that they were smaller scale' is one reason I guess.

And exterminate a whole nation... no... but Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki are big cities.

Also at Dachau a number of the soldiers were not Totenkopf camp gaurds but wounded Waffen SS soldiers housed there at the hospital. They didn't have any thing to do with what was going on at the camp.

And I dont just mean Dachau... there is the Canicatti slaughter, which was a war crime committed by US forces during the invasion of Sicily in July 1943. The town of Canicatti had already surrendered when U.S. troops entered, following heavy German bombardment during their withdrawal. Civilians (including some children) had been rounded up and herded into a bombed soap factory where they were shot by U.S. soldiers. The incident was covered up fearing that it may lead to reprisals from the civilian population.

And also The Biscari massacre which was a war crime committed by American troops during World War II, where 76 unarmed German and Italian prisoners of war were massacred at Biscari in 1943. Patton tried to get Bradely to change the facts so that the US troops wouldn't be found guilty but Bradely refused.

Ok, I never intended to start fueling the fire against the allies either. I hope my little point go across as I intended it to be. Which was along the lines of why should there be something wrong with people posting these pictures?

Yes genious, you figured it out, the allies were the bad guys.

Believe it or not, but it was a war. The assholes who started it were the germans

Switek

07-03-2006, 08:20 PM

It is a war crime no two words about it. Officers do not have the privilege to choose to kill an enemy combatant for any reason before a real trial. Sorry but this is strictly against Geneva Convention, no matter what happened before.

-jippo

Sorry to inform you that you wrote about principles of Geneva Convention implemented in August 12th 1949... So this is no war crime and US army officers acted in normal procedure. before WW2 were signed two Geneva Conventions in 1864 and 1906.

Check up the sources...

Jani.R

07-04-2006, 04:19 AM

Sorry to inform you that you wrote about principles of Geneva Convention implemented in August 12th 1949... So this is no war crime and US army officers acted in normal procedure. before WW2 were signed two Geneva Conventions in 1864 and 1906.

Check up the sources...

So executing polish partisans without trial was not an warcrime?

PeterG

07-04-2006, 04:24 AM

So executing polish partisans without trial was not an warcrime?

Actually, i don't think executing partisans is technically a warcrime. But the massive crimes against civillians certainly were.

Switek

07-04-2006, 04:35 AM

So executing polish partisans without trial was not an warcrime?

I guess not :-( - they shoud be treated as POWs but Germans refused to accept them as a part of armed forces. But executing civilians without trial (very often taken as a hostages) - it was a crime. In Poland when we are talking about Nazi's war crimes of WW2 usaualy we mean executions of civilians without trial.

I think this is why UN implemented new law terms like crime against humanity after WW2 and why Geneva Convention of 1949 is about treatment of POWs.

Sayeret

07-04-2006, 04:45 AM

edit.........

Jippo

07-04-2006, 06:01 AM

Sorry to inform you that you wrote about principles of Geneva Convention implemented in August 12th 1949... So this is no war crime and US army officers acted in normal procedure. before WW2 were signed two Geneva Conventions in 1864 and 1906.

Check up the sources...

Look up Hague 1899 then. It is a war crime executing surrendered POW's is very much a crime, and if you think it is ok you are a very sick person.

-jippo

Switek

07-04-2006, 06:20 AM

Look up Hague 1899 then. It is a war crime executing surrendered POW's is very much a crime, and if you think it is ok you are a very sick person.

-jippo

Please do not use ofensive terms. I'd like to concentrate on merit not personal attacks. Please do not use term of nowday's political correctness for situations which took place more than 60 years ago. For present situations the principles are obvious, there is somehow working law.

The problem of WW2 was that there were a lot of new situation which had been unimaginable for lawmakers in 19th century. For example if unarmed soldier of enemy army was caught during plundering there was a normal procedure to shoot him dead immediatly. No court was necessary then.

Jippo

07-04-2006, 06:33 AM

Ok, but still shooting POW is / was back then against general morality rules, and against international conventions.

-jippo

Switek

07-04-2006, 06:39 AM

Ok, but still shooting POW is / was back then against general morality rules, and against international conventions.

-jippo

Shooting POW was for sure against general morality rules and war customs based on 19th century principles of conducting wars.

thefusilier

07-04-2006, 08:04 AM

Yes genious, you figured it out, the allies were the bad guys.

Believe it or not, but it was a war. The assholes who started it were the germans

1. Thanks for trying to understand my post. I appreciate it. Next time however a little more effort would be beneficial.

2. The US invaded Iraq. So does that mean Iraqis should/could have done whatever they wanted with US troops and it would be totally fine with you?

3. Believe it or not, wars are supposed to have rules.

Sorry to inform you that you wrote about principles of Geneva Convention implemented in August 12th 1949... So this is no war crime and US army officers acted in normal procedure. before WW2 were signed two Geneva Conventions in 1864 and 1906.

Check up the sources...

I checked up on those souces. Third Geneva Convention, Article III... regarding the treatment of prisoners of war (POWs)... signed by 129 nations in 1925, and officially adolpted in 1929. It was revised in 1949 but it was still in effect since '29.

So executing polish partisans without trial was not an warcrime?

Unfortunately when dealing with partisans/guerrials/insurgents whatever there are guidelines they themselves have to follow to recieve the benefits of being identified as a lawful combatants. These guidelines can be easily misunderstood, or misunderstood done on purpose as well.

Tiger75

07-04-2006, 08:33 AM

Last I saw ..... this was a thread about W-SS troops. Under the heading 'PHOTOS'

Johnny_H

07-04-2006, 08:48 AM

^^^ yeah me too, but people would rather flame eachother

mikcem

07-13-2006, 01:19 PM

Hukatus those Pics you posted on the Estonian Waffen SS were A 1 ,
I have a few private photos of Waffen SS which I will post soon .
Big Lebowski I am not able to view any of yours . How can I see them
regards from Down Under..

Geezah

07-13-2006, 02:15 PM

No. Many Allied and Axis units had camoflage. As already noted both British/Cdn and German Airborne troops wore camoflaged smocks. Both German (SS and Heer) and Russian units had camoflage uniforms on the Eastern Front.

Here's a set of Splinter Camo worn by the Heer and the Luftwaffe.
Top Front Snow

Top Back Snow

Bottom Front Snow

Bottom Back Snow

Top Front Camo

Top Back Camo

Bottom Front Camo

Bottom Back Camo

Swerap

07-14-2006, 06:42 PM

Nice pictures. The Waffen SS were great fighters. Shame on the rest of the SS. War is hell......

psychoticweazel

07-15-2006, 11:02 AM

Nice pictures. The Waffen SS were great fighters. Shame on the rest of the SS. War is hell......

What has the picture to do with the Waffen SS?

Wrench00

07-15-2006, 11:58 AM

Great pics. I respect the soldiers, but I am glad that other nations put lots of them 6 feet under. Otherwise I most likely would have not been alive nor would a lot of my race.

mikcem

07-16-2006, 10:15 AM

http://i56.photobucket.cc.DerLandser GB 090.jpg
http://i56.photobucket.cc.DerLandser GB 821.jpg

Here are two original photos
Regards Mikcem

gaijinsamurai

07-16-2006, 11:33 AM

Those photo links don't seem to work, mikcem. Thanks, anyways.

mikcem

07-16-2006, 01:16 PM

http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g187/mikcrem

Sorry guys this will give you all 8 photos
mikcem

psychoticweazel

07-17-2006, 04:26 AM

http://s56.photobucket.com/albums/g187/mikcrem

Sorry guys this will give you all 8 photos
mikcem

Interesting pics thnx!

Canuck Farrier

07-24-2006, 07:19 PM

does anyone have any photos of the HJ 12th ss division?

mikcem

07-25-2006, 02:52 AM

Here are some from a private Album . Anti Tank Gunner 12thSS
the photos date April /May 1944.. :backhand:
The men belong to Gun Group 8 Panz.Gren. Regt.26 HJ

mikcem

07-25-2006, 02:57 AM

I will put some more in later...
Mikcem

Canuck Farrier

07-25-2006, 09:07 AM

thanks man.p-)

czr

07-25-2006, 10:43 AM

wow some really neat photos, I think alot of the people like to label anyone that were associated in any way with the axis side of that war as murderers, and evil. Im not saying the SS didnt commit crimes, some of the most heinous were their doing, but I know for a fact that there were more than a few and many of whom died fighting to protect their country and families from soviets etc.

czr

07-25-2006, 10:51 AM

a few photos i found interesting, sorry if theyre not all waffen I have a hard time telling...

Heinzi

07-25-2006, 11:19 AM

Last picture doesnt look right to me.
He isnt using the Mg42 correctly.

ClydeFrog

07-25-2006, 12:27 PM

Not at all. Charging handle to the rear :cantbeli: Might end up with a nice bruise on the right hand. And the bipod....

Looks like reenactors.

czr

07-25-2006, 05:33 PM

What would be the proper position of the hands while firing an mg42 kneeling? I cant see him holding under the barrel there is no heatsheild.

IronFinn

07-25-2006, 05:37 PM

Here is some about finns in Waffen-SS:
http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/2130/index.htm
http://www.feldgrau.com/finland.html

Karo

07-25-2006, 08:35 PM

Not at all. Charging handle to the rear :cantbeli: Might end up with a nice bruise on the right hand. And the bipod....

Looks like reenactors.

Yes AFAIK these are reenactors.

What would be the proper position of the hands while firing an mg42 kneeling? I cant see him holding under the barrel there is no heatsheild.

I would say:

Right hand to the grip
Left hand to the rear

example:

same would work if the shooter is sitting such as on the picture posted before,

and if theres no possibility to put the gun on anything then the shooter would either lay down or use the shoulder of a comrade as a support

i havent seen yet anybody shooting with the MG 42 while he kneels, too uncomfortable and too difficult to aim.

-------------------------------

and here are some pictures of Waffen-SS troops during the battle of Kursk: (hope that they werent posted before)

czr

07-25-2006, 09:15 PM

rogue1

09-07-2006, 09:00 AM

javar22

09-13-2006, 08:07 AM

Here´s some videos on the waffen ss: i´m not sure if these are a repost.... sory if they are...

by the way, a personal note: i´m only posting these for history sake only, just like any other fighting force!!

greetings to all! :)

in Normandy 1944:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7fU3iTk9gA

various footage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlhS2Tebv6I

on the Ardennes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJSoOWvIQ9g

HitlerJugend 12 PzDivision SS Waffen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nsyi-co3lkU

11.SS Freiwilligen Panzergrenadier Division "Nordland":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFVRzEsX-6w

Dronetek

09-13-2006, 09:00 AM

Interesting thread, I've been reading about the Waffen SS for a long time, even more about teh Eastern Front. Here a 2 torrents, you shoulf find interesting.

http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/450578/10389384/

http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/421264/5194692/

Will you post the otrrent for the second one? You cant download it unless youre registered and registration is closed.

rogue1

09-13-2006, 11:17 PM

Will you post the otrrent for the second one? You cant download it unless youre registered and registration is closed.

http://isohunt.com/download/13218446/Uniforms

Steelhead

09-14-2006, 07:39 AM

I could care less if people have a problem with seeing Nazi troops in a militaryphotos forum, it was a war, it happened... these are cool pics so get over it.

InetWarrior

09-14-2006, 07:46 AM

I could care less if people have a problem with seeing Nazi troops in a militaryphotos forum, it was a war, it happened... these are cool pics so get over it.

No problem at all just mix some photos from SS Einsatzcommando job. And show some pics of dead POW taken by SS. It was war, it happened...
And do not try to tell us that they were "noble" warrior. SS was a criminal organization so show them accordingly.

weissent

09-14-2006, 07:59 AM

So what? Prisoners were routinely shot on both sides during the war (we're talking Western Allies, too). The mighty 101st was famous for it...

Steelhead

09-14-2006, 09:04 AM

It's true the SS did murder lots of civilians and POW's, but they also engaged in combat in a war... those are the photos I want to see.

btw, they show pics of insurgents blown up and photos from Beslan, so they might as well post SS war crimes too.

pr0

09-14-2006, 09:09 AM

No problem at all just mix some photos from SS Einsatzcommando job. And show some pics of dead POW taken by SS. It was war, it happened...
And do not try to tell us that they were "noble" warrior. SS was a criminal organization so show them accordingly.
agree

12345

pr0

09-14-2006, 09:10 AM

So what? Prisoners were routinely shot on both sides during the war (we're talking Western Allies, too). The mighty 101st was famous for it...
compare numbers of killed. ss killed many noncombatants and civilians

Big Lebowski

09-14-2006, 09:22 AM

we all know the SS is bad. no need to prove it..
if you want to add something to this thread, post some pics.

Luno

09-14-2006, 09:53 AM

Mixed photos

(http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/1207/russia829yj2.jpg)

(http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/9691/russiaix1941kl0.jpg)

(http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/9836/russiaix19412ls7.jpg)

(http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/4514/gal13kx4.jpg)

(http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/9756/hollandv1940bq7.jpg)

(http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/3793/panzeriv102sb8.jpg)

(http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/274/training450py6.jpg)

javar22

09-14-2006, 10:21 AM

This one should be on records too:

members of the I SS Panzer Division Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler on trial, for the malmedy events:
11. Josef Dietrich
33. Fritz Kramer
45. Hermann Preiss
42. Joachim Peiper
8. Manfred Coblenz
13. Arndt Fischer
19. Hans Gruhle
23. Hans Henneck
31. Gustav Knittel
34. Werner Kuhn
39. Erich Munkemer

Steelhead

09-14-2006, 05:25 PM

rogue1

09-14-2006, 11:41 PM

And do not try to tell us that they were "noble" warrior. SS was a criminal organization so show them accordingly.

Interesting, I would call the Brits Bomber Command and the US 8th and 15th Air Forces a criminal orginisation as well. After all they did engage in the widespread mass murder of civilians from the air. I believe 600 000 German civilians were massacred by these formations.
As we know he who wins the war writes the history.

CruddyLeper

09-14-2006, 11:49 PM

Wasn't Peiper in charge of the forces that massacred the US soldiers at Malmenday?

He was commander of Kampgruppe Peiper. Sepp Dietrich was in overall command of the Army Group, General Moehnke (?) was divisional commander.

History records that Peiper had left the Baugnez crossroads some hours before the event.

One Georg Fleps started the shooting with his pistol. This prompted a stampede by the other prisoners which led to the massacre.

It wasn't a planned massacre... if it was, there would have been no survivors.

As it was, a team from Time magazine were close on hand when the first 3 survivors reached Allied lines... and the rest is history.

Karo

09-14-2006, 11:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by javar22 [/URL]
This one should be on records too:

members of the I SS Panzer Division Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler on trial, for the malmedy events:
11. Josef Dietrich
33. Fritz Kramer
45. Hermann Preiss
42. Joachim Peiper
8. Manfred Coblenz
13. Arndt Fischer
19. Hans Gruhle
23. Hans Henneck
31. Gustav Knittel
34. Werner Kuhn
39. Erich Munkemer

Wasn't Peiper in charge of the forces that massacred the US soldiers at Malmenday?

Yes, he was the leader of the Kampfgruppe Peiper:

[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malm%C3%A9dy_massacre (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1924290#post1924290)

InetWarrior

09-15-2006, 04:09 AM

we all know the SS is bad. no need to prove it...
Nope, some people do not know that. Never underestimat a human stupidity

if you want to add something to this thread, post some pics.

Ok, I will add a pic

Germans are shown their handiwork by American captors after the end of the war.

InetWarrior

09-15-2006, 04:10 AM

turska

09-15-2006, 04:41 AM

I feel sorry for those men who got drafted straight into Waffen-SS during the last year. Those men didnt have much choise back then.

CruddyLeper

09-15-2006, 04:59 AM

Hmm... I don't think any got drafted into Waffen SS before 1943. Maybe 1944.

Very much a volunteer organisation.

Heinzi

09-15-2006, 05:20 AM

InetWarrior

09-15-2006, 07:51 AM

I read a book from a WaffenSS soldier who volunteered before the war with 15 years into service.
He uncovered a massacre of allied soldiers in France 1940 and other WSS soldiers were brought to justice for that. He fought until 1945 as the only surviving man from the start of the war of his division, and was captured in the end by the Americans.
He spent the whole war fighting all over the fronts, doing his duty in his words.

Does that man still deserved to get shot on sight because he was a SS soldier? Hard to say I guess.

It was criminal force. Maybe he was decent man but that do not make SS any better. As a part of criminal forces he should suffer a consequences accordingly to his guild...

As to the shot on sight SS soldiers it was very common practice in every allied Army. Maybe because SS was knowing from killing POW and guarding Konzentrational Lagers.

Freibier

09-15-2006, 08:05 AM

Throwing all SS personell into the same pot just doesn't work, and I don't agree with labelling all of them criminals - the vast majority of the Waffen SS were just ordinary soldiers and they had the misfortune that the allied victor justice needed scapegoats.

Big Lebowski

09-15-2006, 08:48 AM

even though we have been through this several times in this thread..
if you wanna judge. then judge the individuals.

and imho, it's just lack of knowlege about history

janosik

09-15-2006, 09:37 AM

turska

09-15-2006, 09:38 AM

Hmm... I don't think any got drafted into Waffen SS before 1943. Maybe 1944.

Very much a volunteer organisation.

Until 1940 the SS was an entirely voluntary organization. After the formation of the Waffen-SS in 1940 there was a gradually increasing number of conscripts into the Waffen-SS.

1943 Waffen-SS "drafted" lots of young men from Reichsarbeitsdient. Reichs laborforce or something like thath. It caused small ****storm in germany. Lots of parents demanded release of their sons from the Waffen-SS.

Found these numbers with a short search on my books and google. Would require more time to dig deeper on my books. But anyway: 30 000 at 1942, 100 000 at 1943 and 210 000 at 1944.

Heinzi

09-15-2006, 09:40 AM

Here is the story about the massacre I wrote about last page:
http://www.norfolkbc.fsnet.co.uk/archive_collection/strips_farrow/le_paradis_index.htm
Committed by members of the SS-Division Totenkopf.

There are some pictures in the link, I dont want to hotlink them.

javar22

09-15-2006, 10:22 AM

Not about SS but very interesting audio book.

Anthony Beevor: Stalingrad: The Fateful Seige, 1942-1943
http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/331624/3028732/

For me many new infos about russian(hivis) fighting on german side in this battle.

Another book from Anthony Beevor
Anthony Beevor : Berlin: The Downfall 1945
http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/450965/3785915/

Those books are very good, but somewhat entertainning.....

MG 3

09-15-2006, 10:38 AM

History is written by those who win. I am not showing support for the SS, my Great grand daddy fought them all over North Africa. Had the british lost i bet that many untold stories from India would have been brought in to the lime light.

By the way, those are some nice pics.

Big Lebowski

09-15-2006, 10:42 AM

just so you know. there was not SS in North africa.

psychoticweazel

09-15-2006, 11:43 AM

Not about SS but very interesting audio book.

Anthony Beevor: Stalingrad: The Fateful Seige, 1942-1943
http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/331624/3028732/

For me many new infos about russian(hivis) fighting on german side in this battle.

Another book from Anthony Beevor
Anthony Beevor : Berlin: The Downfall 1945
http://www.demonoid.com/files/details/450965/3785915/

Yhnx for the post! Though in Stalingrad there were no Waffen SS'ers whatsoever.And thi Stalingrad torrent is for registerd users only and as registration is closed...........................

Morboute

09-15-2006, 11:44 AM

I guess all germans were SS to some people...

airborn

09-18-2006, 06:48 PM

this is a great site a bit fanatical but really good for ss pics & posters

http://www.finalsolution88.com/

Luno

09-18-2006, 06:57 PM

this is a great site a bit fanatical but really good for ss pics & posters

http://www. (http://www.finalsolution88.com/)

wtf :cantbeli:have a nice ban

Freibier

09-18-2006, 07:00 PM

WTF airborn? :cantbeli::cantbeli::cantbeli:

eucalyptus

09-18-2006, 07:01 PM

this is a great site a bit fanatical but really good for ss pics & posters

no, hell no. Im not gonna digg through heap of crap to find a penny.

Karo

09-18-2006, 07:11 PM

this is a great site a bit fanatical but really good for ss pics & posters

http://www.finalsolution88.com/

..a bit...? rofl

Bryson C

09-18-2006, 07:16 PM

this is a great site a bit fanatical but really good for ss pics & posters

http://www..>/

WTF. :cantbeli: Get that crap out of here.

CruddyLeper

09-18-2006, 07:20 PM

no, hell no. Im not gonna digg through heap of crap to find a penny.

I did... and I didn't even find the penny. :-(

Luno

09-18-2006, 07:21 PM

that link where the worst crap ever!!!

and where is the mods when you need them. so can someone wake them up

DeltaWhisky58

09-18-2006, 07:45 PM

this is a great site a bit fanatical but really good for ss pics & posters

http://www.finalsolution88.com/

My guess is that this is a ban you guys are not going to argue about - yes? He is not supended, he is perma-banned.

I'm sure we are all in agreement about the fact we do not need guys like that here.

gaijinsamurai

09-18-2006, 10:23 PM

Thanks for getting rid of the trash, DeltaWhisky!
I don't think you'll see anyone coming to that guy's defense.

CruddyLeper

09-18-2006, 10:27 PM

I did consider it - but that site rated a lot more than "bit fanatical".

Far right White Supremacy Overload with a cherry on top.

Bryson C

09-18-2006, 10:32 PM

And on top of that the site is called 'final solution' glad he's gone.

Canuck Farrier

09-18-2006, 10:57 PM

That website could really bring out ones darkside.Wild stuff people come up with.

Schizo

09-22-2006, 08:59 PM

LOL, "a bit" fanatical...

mikcem

09-22-2006, 10:23 PM

Le Paradis massacre .... I may be wrong but wasnt the Totenkopf Regt
involved seeking revenge for DUM DUM Bullets used on their men
They were banned by the Geneva Convention under penalty of death
in warfare (Soldaten Kampfer Kameraden by Wolfgang Vopersal) Indications of Totenkopf casualties in that area appear so ... There are
no reports of issuing these by the Quartermaster in the Duke of Norfolk
Regt records hardly surprising due to the Tactical situation .. The ill temper of the Germans could be explained by this or was it frustration
at the fierce defense ?

My Uncle Ray was captured by the LAH in Greece, wounded he was well
treated they did pinch his slouch hat though ... He returned to Australia
1945 .:)

eugenlitwin

09-29-2006, 08:19 PM

.

Many of the Baltic states, as well as the Ukraine, continued to fight the Soviets until the 1950's. until at list 1962 west belarus´and ukrainap-)

Canuck Farrier

09-29-2006, 08:41 PM

.

Many of the Baltic states, as well as the Ukraine, continued to fight the Soviets until the 1950's. until at list 1962 west belarus´and ukrainap-)

as an insurgency or a organized army???im interested if you have any info.

Canuck Farrier

12-03-2006, 06:47 PM

sp2c

12-03-2006, 06:54 PM

Came across a Netherlands SS recruiting poster.The Dutch must of thought it was nervy of the Germans to invade then try and recruit.

I have no Idea what It says except the caption said "Boys of the Netherlands"

it says:

Boys of the Netherlands!
Join the Waffen SS
against Bolsjewism- (Communism?)
for all of our future!

Our glorious ancestors will charge us in god's courts if our people stays behind now.

apply at the Erganzungsamt der Waffen SS Erganzungstelle Nordwest Stadhouderslaan 132 Den Haag

sp2c

12-03-2006, 07:01 PM

and afaik nobody really cared either way except the first draft of the poster was riddled with 'all your base are belong to us' style typo's so the underground press took it and ran with it all the way to ... well to the other side of the street probably because freedom of movement was a bit limited but they ran it loads of times ;)

besides, we considered the communists our enemies even before the war so those that joined the SS (some 22.000) didn't get that much problems when they returned unless they fought on the Western Front or commited warcrimes just a jail sentance (starting from 5 years afaik) for fighting in a foreign army ... some even joined up to fight the Communists in Korea!

Canuck Farrier

12-03-2006, 07:19 PM

cool,thanks for the info.So 22 000 joined up,do you know how many casulties the Dutch volunteers had by the end of the war.?They had their own division too right??

sp2c

12-03-2006, 07:28 PM

cool,thanks for the info.So 22 000 joined up,do you know how many casulties the Dutch volunteers had by the end of the war.?They had their own division too right??

unknown ... nobody every really bothered (cared enough?) to count.

I don't think they had their own division though, there were a number of brigade sized units and a large part served in the Leibstandarte Wiking

most peculiar one I know of was the SS Nordwest standarte which was about 1200 strong and was filled with volunteers that weren't fit to meet the SS standards ... they were meant to go to the eastfront as SS but nobody told them about it!!!!

at some point they are told and the commander gives them (1200 men) the choice to go and fight or go home and do nothing and half of them promptly packs up and leaves :D

Switek

12-03-2006, 07:40 PM

cool,thanks for the info.So 22 000 joined up,do you know how many casulties the Dutch volunteers had by the end of the war.?They had their own division too right??

I'm curious why you want to know... I guess that most of them rest in German mass graves with no nationality indicated.

Canuck Farrier

12-03-2006, 08:28 PM

I'm curious why you want to know... I guess that most of them rest in German mass graves with no nationality indicated.

Plain curiosity on my part,I have never read or heard much about Dutch SS.Theres so much about WW2 its hard to know everything.

sp2c

12-03-2006, 08:34 PM

go there

http://www.waffen-ss.nl/english.php

Muphlon

12-03-2006, 10:21 PM