Waffen SS troops

[Crassus]

I'm curious why you want to know... I guess that most of them rest in German mass graves with no nationality indicated.

Well, there is a person who uses nick HaeN in the Axis history forum, Feldgrau and some Netherland WWII site, he acclaims to be a veteran of Landstorm Nederland and currently living in USA.
Personally, so far I have not found anything to point otherwise. He said that he had finished writing his memoirs and they are going to published sometime soon with the title "Avalon".

[Scourge]

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/5447/35987sg2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/129/36059gs6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[paulyb102]

Waffen SS Snipers

[Olembe]

I don't post here often but I thought I'd share in this case anyways. My grandfather served in the Waffen SS, with Totenkopf as a Untersturmführer. We have some left over trinkets from the war sitting in my grandmother’s basement along with a diary he kept up until his death in 2002. He never spoke of the war to anyone but the few pieces translated from his war diary reflect a far different person than most SS soldiers are portrayed. My grandfather made up a microcosm of soldiers in the SS considering he joined to be a part of the most elite unit the Reich had to offer, not to commit war crimes. While he may have been serving in a unit indoctrinated by the Nazi's he claimed to have "quietly rejected the politics of the state." After the war he returned to Fussen before immigrating to Canada choosing to live life in suburban Toronto. He had many close friends who were Jewish along with his daughter-in-law, my aunt.

Overall, the actions of the SS are not be any means justifiable but some level of empathy should be given to the common soldier. Many, like my grandfather, seemed to be drawn by the camaraderie and respect only achieved by serving in an elite unit.

Thanks for posting the interesting photos

[Johnny_H]

I don't post here often but I thought I'd share in this case anyways. My grandfather served in the Waffen SS, with Totenkopf as a Untersturmführer. We have some left over trinkets from the war sitting in my grandmother’s basement along with a diary he kept up until his death in 2002. He never spoke of the war to anyone but the few pieces translated from his war diary reflect a far different person than most SS soldiers are portrayed. My grandfather made up a microcosm of soldiers in the SS considering he joined to be a part of the most elite unit the Reich had to offer, not to commit war crimes. While he may have been serving in a unit indoctrinated by the Nazi's he claimed to have "quietly rejected the politics of the state." After the war he returned to Fussen before immigrating to Canada choosing to live life in suburban Toronto. He had many close friends who were Jewish along with his daughter-in-law, my aunt.

Overall, the actions of the SS are not be any means justifiable but some level of empathy should be given to the common soldier. Many, like my grandfather, seemed to be drawn by the camaraderie and respect only achieved by serving in an elite unit.

Thanks for posting the interesting photos

Well said dude.

Although I agree with you entirely you have to also realize there are allot of people that have a very illegitimate reason to dislike or distrust anyone who wore the runes of the SS, regardless of their personal ideals or level of guilt.

[Canuck Farrier]

Well said dude.

Although I agree with you entirely you have to also realize there are allot of people that have a very illegitimate reason to dislike or distrust anyone who wore the runes of the SS, regardless of their personal ideals or level of guilt.

Germany and the SS for this matter is not the only country to commit war crimes and clensing.

[eindhoven]

eindhoven wrote:

I don't know why you consider German Fallschrimjäger as trumped up.
As far as the elite status of the Waffen SS as a whole is concerned...there was none.
Otherwise your post is simply dripping with poison. I don't know what your problems with Witmann are.

Forgive me for taking so long to respond.

Firstly, even if you took the appalling loses of Crete away, take a look at the near failure of just the operations in Holland. Then we can talk about Italy, Russia, Crete or maybe even the Ardennes. Where they brave? Sure. Were they combat effective? Well, judging from the losses and fact that they seldom held anything even against, say, their American counterparts at Carentan...Hmmm, I would say no. I mention Carentan because some of those who worship FJ mention the fact that airborne units arent designed to hold without reinforcement. 101st managed okay. The consensus at OKW was to give them a ground based role and I tend to agree with that decision. They were better employed as infantry because they didnt stack up as Airborne in my eyes. That comes from a non-leg. Anyone whose Airborne will understand the term.

2nd, the Waffen-SS trained no differently from WH troops with the exception of political indoctrination courses they were mandated to take. They wore different camoflage but on a whole the entire German military employed a high degree of camoflage clothing. So what? Oh yeah, I forgot. It looks cool. Camo distribution increased throughout the war for all ground based units. But camoflage clothing does not make them elite. And that term is falsely applied, they stood out in their time because they were created as 'political soldiers' not because they were elite and out performed anyone. They did not recieve preferential treatment in distribution of equipment and there are a number of sources to debunk that long held myth.

The myth of their fighting ability was created in the press, thank you Stars and Stripes, the same Army publishing house that help create 'Tiger phobia' where every German tank became a Tiger Tank regardless of whether it was a PzKpfw III or Stug. The 'elite' myth was perpuated post war by publishers including Munin-Verlag which subsidized W-SS soldiers since they recieved no pensions as an outcome of the Nurnberg Trials and who took their accounts down to give them a voice. They lost Kharkov how many times? What happened in the Southern sector at Kursk and Ponyri? If they were so damn effective in everything from training, camoflage, equipment, and leadership why did they fail...at say Caen?

On the subject of Wittman, he was a proganda machine poster boy and he is another cult of worship personality. Other than that, like quite a few SS officers he died from being brash and non-thinking. His gunner is the one who could fire on the move and who tallied the score of targets Wittman called out. Plus, He owed his survival more to the track he commanded than to his skill. A Tiger was terribly hard to knock out whether in Russia or France. It wasnt a matter of luck running out. It was stupid on his part to traverse an open field without using the dismounted infantry with him that day and lose not just his life but the two other Tigers with him that day. He didnt just kill himself.

Besides, there are other tank men who bested his score by a large degree but then, I guess they arent 'elite' or dont add up in the eyes of men like Napolean who you qoute. The same Napolean that abandoned his Army to die in the cold.

[eindhoven]

Here is an image I worked on.

[eindhoven]

Here is Wittman.

[eindhoven]

Top scorers

Kurt Knispel 168 s.Pz.Abt. 503
Walter Schroif 161 s.SS-Pz.Abt. 102
Otto Carius 150+ s.Pz.Abt. 502
Johannes (Hans) Bolter 139+ s.Pz.Abt. 502
Michael Wittmann 138 s.SS-Pz.Abt. 101

Here is Kurt Knispel. Sorry fans.

[Jelle H.]

Forgive me for taking so long to respond.

Firstly, even if you took the appalling loses of Crete away, take a look at the near failure of just the operations in Holland. Then we can talk about Italy, Russia, Crete or maybe even the Ardennes. Where they brave? Sure. Were they combat effective? Well, judging from the losses and fact that they seldom held anything even against, say, their American counterparts at Carentan...Hmmm, I would say no. I mention Carentan because some of those who worship FJ mention the fact that airborne units arent designed to hold without reinforcement. 101st managed okay. The consensus at OKW was to give them a ground based role and I tend to agree with that decision. They were better employed as infantry because they didnt stack up as Airborne in my eyes. That comes from a non-leg. Anyone whose Airborne will understand the term.

2nd, the Waffen-SS trained no differently from WH troops with the exception of political indoctrination courses they were mandated to take. They wore different camoflage but on a whole the entire German military employed a high degree of camoflage clothing. So what? Oh yeah, I forgot. It looks cool. Camo distribution increased throughout the war for all ground based units. But camoflage clothing does not make them elite. And that term is falsely applied, they stood out in their time because they were created as 'political soldiers' not because they were elite and out performed anyone. They did not recieve preferential treatment in distribution of equipment and there are a number of sources to debunk that long held myth.

The myth of their fighting ability was created in the press, thank you Stars and Stripes, the same Army publishing house that help create 'Tiger phobia' where every German tank became a Tiger Tank regardless of whether it was a PzKpfw III or Stug. The 'elite' myth was perpuated post war by publishers including Munin-Verlag which subsidized W-SS soldiers since they recieved no pensions as an outcome of the Nurnberg Trials and who took their accounts down to give them a voice. They lost Kharkov how many times? What happened in the Southern sector at Kursk and Ponyri? If they were so damn effective in everything from training, camoflage, equipment, and leadership why did they fail...at say Caen?

On the subject of Wittman, he was a proganda machine poster boy and he is another cult of worship personality. Other than that, like quite a few SS officers he died from being brash and non-thinking. His gunner is the one who could fire on the move and who tallied the score of targets Wittman called out. Plus, He owed his survival more to the track he commanded than to his skill. A Tiger was terribly hard to knock out whether in Russia or France. It wasnt a matter of luck running out. It was stupid on his part to traverse an open field without using the dismounted infantry with him that day and lose not just his life but the two other Tigers with him that day. He didnt just kill himself.

Besides, there are other tank men who bested his score by a large degree but then, I guess they arent 'elite' or dont add up in the eyes of men like Napolean who you qoute. The same Napolean that abandoned his Army to die in the cold.

Well said!

[Alpha Leader]

Here are some Waffen ss related stuff from Norway

http://www.frontkjemper.info/images/propaganda/l_bolsj.gif
The "classic" Frw. Legion Norwegen propaganda poster. A central element is the viking ship: The NS frequently used the viking era to promote front duty. The poster says: "With Waffen-SS and Frw. Legion Norwegen against the mutual enemy: AGAINST COMMUNISM"

http://www.frontkjemper.info/images/propaganda/l_innsats.gif
The main focus of this poster is that the front duty is done for Norway's cause. Norway is displayed with high mountains and a farm.

http://www.frontkjemper.info/images/propaganda/l_ssdagen.gif
The SS day of 1943. Arranged by Germanske SS Norge. The wiking motif is present.

http://www.frontkjemper.info/images/propaganda/l_fellesfront.gif
A poster which displays the Waffen-SS as a Western-European force, displayed by the national flags. The Western-European SS soldiers are supposed to fight the "communist enemy", here displayed as red flames.

http://www.frontkjemper.info/images/propaganda/l_skijeger.gif
SS-Skijegerbataljon Norge propaganda. Note the runic font. The poster says: "Come with us north."

http://www.axishistory.com/fileadmin/user_upload/n/ns-quisling-insp-gssn.jpg
Vidkun Quisling inspecting Germanske SS Norge (GSSN)

http://www.axishistory.com/fileadmin/user_upload/g/gssn-marching-1943.jpg
Germanske SS Norge marching 1943

Here are a great presentation on pdf.
http://presentations.uib.no/web4/legionminner/liten.pdf
All in Norwegian languange, sorry.

A site from the War in Saltdal, Norway.
http://home.online.no/%7Ejdmon/krigisaltdal.cfm

I am not sympatising with the ss or the Nazi idea, i post this beacuse of the historical aspect of it all.Not everyone was Nazis , they fought against the communist.(Bad English , i know.)

[Thor]

I'm not going to get into a discussion on this subject, but some people here (like eindoven) talk purely out of their asses. They sound more like some old stock Wehrmacht officer that refuses to accept the reality.

The record of the top Waffen-SS units is unprecedented. I.e. if it weren't for their actions as "fire departments" on the Eastern Front, there would be no need for a Berlin Wall since the line between East and West would go through the English Channel (not my quote, I know).

[Henk Vizee]

Maybe Eindhoven and Jelle H. should read some proper books about the subject first; instead of following their own opinions....

[MG 3]

I'm not going to get into a discussion on this subject, but some people here (like eindoven) talk purely out of their asses. They sound more like some old stock Wehrmacht officer that refuses to accept the reality.

The record of the top Waffen-SS units is unprecedented. I.e. if it weren't for their actions as "fire departments" on the Eastern Front, there would be no need for a Berlin Wall since the line between East and West would go through the English Channel (not my quote, I know).


^^^^^ Read this close eindoven. Just because they were the enemy and lost doesn't mean that they did not know how to fight. Had they been on an equal footing the world would have been very different.

[Canuck Farrier]

I'm not going to get into a discussion on this subject, but some people here (like eindoven) talk purely out of their asses. They sound more like some old stock Wehrmacht officer that refuses to accept the reality.

The record of the top Waffen-SS units is unprecedented. I.e. if it weren't for their actions as "fire departments" on the Eastern Front, there would be no need for a Berlin Wall since the line between East and West would go through the English Channel (not my quote, I know).

I agree.Alot of his post was his own opinion rather than reality.

[turska]

2nd, the Waffen-SS trained no differently from WH troops with the exception of political indoctrination courses they were mandated to take. They wore different camoflage but on a whole the entire German military employed a high degree of camoflage clothing. So what? Oh yeah, I forgot. It looks cool. Camo distribution increased throughout the war for all ground based units. But camoflage clothing does not make them elite. And that term is falsely applied, they stood out in their time because they were created as 'political soldiers' not because they were elite and out performed anyone. They did not recieve preferential treatment in distribution of equipment and there are a number of sources to debunk that long held myth.

Well they did have different training than the regular troops of the Wermacht. Political part yes, altough for example the Finnish volunteers were not taking part on political lessons as requested by the Finnish goverment.

Then Waffen-SS had much, much more training with live ammunition and safe distances were also very short. On combined arms training artillery fired very close to the troops. So in the end Waffen-SS had more experience to begin with about artillery fire and such and of course. Much higher accident rates because of live fire. This is at least for the Waffen-SS troops on 1940/1941. Those Waffen-SS infantry divisions wich were recruited 43/44 propably didnt see that much training as their combat records are very poor.

Waffen-SS is very wierd and hard subject to study objectively as they have top notch units and couple of dozens very poor units plus the whole mess with the SS special units wich did nasty things. And Totenpkof's camp guards to the top without forgetting the Dirlewanger.

[Baur]

a few photos i found interesting, sorry if theyre not all waffen I have a hard time telling...
http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/albums/germans/als.jpg

I'm not an MG-42 expert, but I've used the MG-3 quite a bit. Yes, the charging handle is at the rear, not a mistake an advanced user would make. However, it will not give him a bruise. The position of his hands looks strange. The correct mode is as someone mentioned, right hand on the grip, left hand on the shoulder. This could be a result of going into a quick firing position.
The bipod is placed on the stone, fair enough. But he is not leaning forward to catch the recoil better.
And looking at the rear sight, it looks like it's been adjusted to about 600-700 meters. You can see the range-adjustment knob is slid to about 2/3 to the right. This suggests a long range engagement, meaning that he has time to get into a proper position, and that the positioning of his hands will make him spread a lot. Or just sloppy work. or some reenactor who's not too experienced.

I'll go for reenactors.

@Caro - it's not a problem to fire while kneeling. It's not as accurate as lying down, but it will work fine. It's all a question of where you can find cover, and how much time you've got to dig.

[Heinzi]

You are right, this is probably a reenactment pic.

I used the Mg3 quite alot, and that just looks wrong. He wont hit much that way.
I remember adjusting the sight on abit more range than needed, you could fire "above" the sights then and you see better were the rounds landed.

Not as much as on the pic though lol

[sp2c]

about the fallschirmjager ... they were definately an elite force
yes they suffered badly during some of their air assault but that is to be expected when you drop light troops into heavily defended areas, Market Garden wasn't a breeze either you know

about them not being able to hold their ground against the odds ... Monte Casino?

furthermore the failure of operations in Holland in 1940 was mentioned, you have to make a clear distinction in these ops, one was the air assault against the Hague which failed misserably because whole waves of aircraft were on fire before their wheels ever touched to ground, after the third wave the fields were so filled with burning wreckage that the remaining aircraft had to land on roads and even beaches in the area while others had to return with troops and equipment on board which left the 22 luftlande division which was assigned to the task (not the fallschirmjager) under strenth and out of position, to make matters worse the Dutch retook the fields around the Hague on the first day spending the rest of the war hunting down the remaining germans tying down thousands of troops that could be put to better use elsewhere.

the Fallschirmjager on the other hand held the Bridges over the river Maas against all odds and fierce counter attacks by Dutch marines and all manner of infantry, they held the city Dordrect whith it's critical bridges again over the River Maas against fierce attacks from the Dutch light division and most importantly they held Waalhaven airfield (the only Dutch field to remain in german hands untill the capitulation!) ensuring the German armour making it's way through the country safe passage into Rotterdam if needed.

in fact the Dutch military command had allready given up on Rotterdam and deployed a massive anti armour shield around the city to contain these armoured forces once they made their move into the Vesting Holland

[Canuck Farrier]

Well they did have different training than the regular troops of the Wermacht. Political part yes, altough for example the Finnish volunteers were not taking part on political lessons as requested by the Finnish goverment.

Then Waffen-SS had much, much more training with live ammunition and safe distances were also very short. On combined arms training artillery fired very close to the troops. So in the end Waffen-SS had more experience to begin with about artillery fire and such and of course. Much higher accident rates because of live fire. This is at least for the Waffen-SS troops on 1940/1941. Those Waffen-SS infantry divisions wich were recruited 43/44 propably didnt see that much training as their combat records are very poor.

Waffen-SS is very wierd and hard subject to study objectively as they have top notch units and couple of dozens very poor units plus the whole mess with the SS special units wich did nasty things. And Totenpkof's camp guards to the top without forgetting the Dirlewanger.

A book I read about the SS had a section about the live fire excercises stating they expected casulties purposely so the men would have seen a friend or comrade killed and know more what to expect.Good conditioning I guess.Then there is the SS saying "Train hard Fight Easy"

[eindhoven]

Maybe Eindhoven and Jelle H. should read some proper books about the subject first; instead of following their own opinions....

Here is a qoute directly from just one of my 37 books on the W-SS. Michael Reynolds, retired Major General British Army "Steel Inferno 1 SS Panzer Corps in Normandy" page 104 regarding his exploits at Villers-Bocage:

"Not surprisingly Wittmann now found himself in trouble - he was without infantry support and, as with any tank in a built up area, highly vulnerable to short range weapons. He said later that he had lost radio contact with his Company and was unable to summon help - 'my tanks were out of sight.' His citation for his action says. 'In the centre of the town his tank was immobilized by enemy heavy anti-tank gun.'

At Villers-Bocage he last his track, and two other Tigers under his command and hoofed it back 7KM.

Maybe instead of reading books you should check NARA and the Bundesarchiv for your own research about the myth of Waffen-SS combat effectiveness. I have, and I know this, the heritage of the Airborne soldiers before me kicked Waffen-SS ass all over Europe. It wasnt the other way around.

I could qoute more Waffen-SS only researchers who also debunk all your myths. Try 'Waffen-SS The Encyclopedia; 2002, by Mark Rikmenspoel pages 257, 253.

[eindhoven]

about the fallschirmjager ... they were definately an

about them not being able to hold their ground against the odds ... Monte Casino?



They retreated from Monte Cassino and suffered heavy losses on the whole in Italy. They defended Monte Cassino but in the end abandoned it....as they always did when pressed.

You offer only more excuses for them operationally, Bad drops, bad pilots, bad command decisions, misuse of resources, lack of equipment, etc. Im used to that. I am not some crack pot. I have researched this and I used German after action reports, veteran accounts, and research all readily available to anyone who isnt just content to read someones book on it.

Tell me something, how is that other units like the 82nd scattered to hell and back in Normandy and without resupply managed to still form a bridgehead against superior numbers of German forces?

The answer is this, a better soldier, and a notch above that, a better Airborne soldier. The Waffen-SS were good soldiers but they were not elite. And the fact remains, despit all the huff about them, they too contributed to a loss during WW2. Men like Dietrich, Meyer, Peiper, Wunsche, Harmel, and the great Paul Hausser in the end failed. They were all charismatic leaders with insight and vision into war. None of which changed the outcome of the war for them.

[Canuck Farrier]

This thread is about Waffen SS troops.Post some photos eindhoven im sure you can find some out of your 37 books.Or Start your own thread on how you feel about German airborne and SS.

[eindhoven]

I'm not going to get into a discussion on this subject, but some people here (like eindoven) talk purely out of their asses. They sound more like some old stock Wehrmacht officer that refuses to accept the reality.

The record of the top Waffen-SS units is unprecedented. I.e. if it weren't for their actions as "fire departments" on the Eastern Front, there would be no need for a Berlin Wall since the line between East and West would go through the English Channel (not my quote, I know).

You are a tool or just a record. Nothing original.

[eindhoven]

This thread is about Waffen SS troops.Post some photos eindhoven im sure you can find some out of your 37 books.Or Start your own thread on how you feel about German airborne and SS.

I did post photos or did you miss that part, duh? Yes, and I was commenting on the Waffen-SS. So I dont get it....Why dont you post some instead of getting pissy? Oh yeah, I forgot, discussion and comment is verboten. SO much for intelligent discourse on a fascinating subject.

Here is a photo of Ernst Barkmann, a great tanker and humble man. And one of Balthazar 'Bobby' Woll, Wittmann's gunner and the man most responsible for his combat tally of 138.

[eindhoven]

'Jupp' Diefenthal. Instrumental battle group commander and reclusive post-war figure.

[eindhoven]

Two period color photographs

[eindhoven]

three more from my personal collection of photographs.

[eindhoven]

Sylvester Stadler.

[eindhoven]

Witt and Meyer Normandy 1944

[Indiana Jones]

[QUOTE]and the Bundesarchiv[QUOTE]
I very much doubt you ever set foot into the Bundesarchiv. However, once you do, you might compare the casualty exchange figures, escpecially those inflicted with small arms, and you will find out that despite all the operational drawbacks which you so eloquently and not entirely uncorrectly described, the pathetic FJ and Waffen-SS did manage to hold its own very well against such dreaded formations as the US 82nd...

[eindhoven]

Last response on it. I am being objective. Anyone else want to call names that is fine. So was ist ja so was.

I have visited and have material I requested from them because I was born and raised there. My own family served on the losing team and I grew up there in a house with a 10 panzer vet, the veterans I first new were either Wehrmacht or Waffen-SS because our town was used for Waffen-SS internment specifically. I finished school there at 15 before coming here.

I never called W-SS pathetic. They were combat effective but not any different than say 10 panzer who my Opa fought with alongside W-SS in the Southern sector at Kursk. You think they were high calibre fine. I dont. I am only calling into account the myths surrounding better equipment, training, and combat. There are plenty of military only authors and researchers some of high military rank who agree with my assesment, You can believe what you want.

Anyway, here is a picture from a '41 edition of Die Woche I own. I would say these guys look pretty worried. And a very nice image of Willi Schumacher.

[Kilgor]

They retreated from Monte Cassino and suffered heavy losses on the whole in Italy. They defended Monte Cassino but in the end abandoned it....as they always did when pressed.

You offer only more excuses for them operationally, Bad drops, bad pilots, bad command decisions, misuse of resources, lack of equipment, etc. Im used to that. I am not some crack pot. I have researched this and I used German after action reports, veteran accounts, and research all readily available to anyone who isnt just content to read someones book on it.
.

Crete is a pretty bad example of combat effectiveness if your squad is pinned down and massacred within seconds of landing. This would speak more of the extreme danger that paratroops are exposed to rather than the poor performance of the fallschirmjager.

There is no doubt they were hacked to pieces on the ground and often stood no chance.

[maloryII]

eindhoven,

Since you are so well read, and your research so acute and finely tuned, I would love to hear your opinion on the the battles of Kharkov and Kursk.

Specifically, can you remind us of the performance of certain Waffen-SS divisions 'Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler (1.SS)' and 'Das Reich (2.SS)' during these operations?

If you are a historian as you claim, you will admit that Kharkov and Kursk my have well been the two most important battles of the entire war. If you have any sort of military inclination or training, you should have been taught about how Wehrmacht and Waffen-SS troops perfected 'mobile defense' tactics and strategy in these two engagements, and how important and relevant such strategies are even today.

I have nothing to say about the political motivations of the SS. In every other case they were a fine fighting force when not dragged down by lack of food, fuel, or ammunition.

Carry on guys; great thread!

[Gepetto]

I'm looking for the quality version of this pic; does anyone have it ? Thanks in advance...

[gaijinsamurai]

I don't have it now, but I will look.
I've seen that photo before. The guy is from the 3rd SS, Totenkopf, and I think the photo was taken in Kharkov.

[wwcollect]

ROA (Russian Liberation Army), SS legioners, propaganda film:

http://battlesworld.com/2006/12/09/roa-russian-liberation-army-german-propaganda/

[Karo]

http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/9992/ssman8873uu.jpg

The searched pic..

[ELCI]

SS= Born and trained MURDERS not SOLDIERS.

I hope they'll never find peace.

[Switek]

SS= Born and trained MURDERS not SOLDIERS.

I hope they'll never find peace.

What a lack of political corectness sense p-) . Anway good, sharp statement, with one exception: not born but brianwashed and trained.

[Karo]

return of the flame war.. :roll:

[ELCI]

return of the flame war.. :roll:




No way. It was a simple statement based on contacs with SS-Members from 1974 to 1978.

At this time they still was proud about theire crimes.

[Pvt.Anderson]

What a lack of political corectness sense p-) . Anway good, sharp statement, with one exception: not born but brianwashed and trained.

and I could ONCE AGAIN ( i did so often ) tell you not to GENERALIZE , it's just as wrong as all poles steal cars . There's some SS divisions whithout any warcrime figure

and what i ONCE MORE say is that i agree that a big part of the SS was involved in warcrimes

[Switek]

and I could ONCE AGAIN ( i did so often ) tell you not to GENERALIZE , it's just as wrong as all poles steal cars . There's some SS divisions whithout any warcrime figure

and what i ONCE MORE say is that i agree that a big part of the SS was involved in warcrimes

see post #543

[Karo]

Yes, how many did he know? 1? 2? 3? ...and I would be interested about more infos about that statement of him.

[neophyte77]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/be/6SSLMPGDA.jpg
Flemisch SS

[Canuck Farrier]

most armies in WW2 commited war crimes on different scales and different situations.Allies won but I bet if the Germans won those responsible for firebombing Germans cities would have been hanged or worse.just an example.You cant form massive armies and expect them all to be good boys,its just war.

[maloryII]

Gentlemen, please.

We are all aware of the often-appropriate stigma of warcrimes associated with the Waffen-SS. Nevertheless, they were a storied and competent military unit that deserves at the very least a healthy historical respect.

I doubt very much anyone here has any reverence for SS ideology. It is childish and counterproductive to incessantly make reference to largely hypothetical scenarios of uniform Waffen-SS barbarism.

Debating their performance in combat is fine with me -- but can we all just stop the bickering?

[Johnny_H]

^^ If there was rep, I would rep you through the roof dude.

Good post.

[lurrp]

history of the WAFFEN SS vid:

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=1941351232503125618&hl=de

[DIU]

It is incorrect to separate the Waffen-SS from the guardsmen of concentration camps. All SS men had the uniform documents; it was quite normal if the soldiers of the Waffen-SS units became the guardsmen of concentration camps as a kind of rest and reward, and on the contrary, the guardsmen of concentration camps were sent to the front as a kind of punishment. Just the same, the Waffen-SS units could be used as in the front as in punitive operations in the rear.
It isn’t occasional that SS was condemned as a whole in Nuremberg, without nonsensical division for “good combat SSmen” and “bad rear SSmen”. They were the same blood-tested people.

[Switek]

Blood tested people or not we all live in Political Corectness era where SS-men were cool guys who found themselves in wrong place in wrong time. What a Bull**** !

[Canuck Farrier]

Blood tested people or not we all live in Political Corectness era where SS-men were cool guys who found themselves in wrong place in wrong time. What a Bull**** !

They were where they chose to be.

[kosse]

Blood tested people or not we all live in Political Corectness era where SS-men were cool guys who found themselves in wrong place in wrong time. What a Bull**** !
I thought it was politically correct to label them all evil and then ban conversation a la Germany p-)

[Switek]

They do not deserve to remeber, to make this thread... :(

I'd like to ask few relatives of my grandpa, what they think... If I could but they lost their lives being younger than me becouse of those like whose portraits and pictures I can see here...

Maybe there is a pix of their murder ? Question to myself...

[Karo]

It is incorrect to separate the Waffen-SS from the guardsmen of concentration camps. All SS men had the uniform documents; it was quite normal if the soldiers of the Waffen-SS units became the guardsmen of concentration camps as a kind of rest and reward, and on the contrary, the guardsmen of concentration camps were sent to the front as a kind of punishment. Just the same, the Waffen-SS units could be used as in the front as in punitive operations in the rear.
It isn’t occasional that SS was condemned as a whole in Nuremberg, without nonsensical division for “good combat SSmen” and “bad rear SSmen”. They were the same blood-tested people.

Sorry, but thats bull****. Only members of the 3. SS-Panzerdivision "Totenkopf" were in constantly personal exchange with the concentration camp guards. Primary men who were too young or too old or too heavy injured for the front service (but there were also a lot of foreigners in their rows) were used as concentration camp guards.
So for example
boys who were too young for front service were put in the concentration as guards and told to see the prisoners of these camps as subhumans and to treat them like animals etc.
Later they came to the front line troops and now its no surprise that they showed again a very brutal behaviour against the enemy..

It was said further but its such an complex theme, you just cant put all in one bowl..

[maloryII]

They do not deserve to remeber, to make this thread... :(

I'd like to ask few relatives of my grandpa, what they think... If I could but they lost their lives being younger than me becouse of those like whose portraits and pictures I can see here...

Maybe there is a pix of their murder ? Question to myself...

I disagree entirely.

There is a profound difference between understanding history and celebrating it. In my opinion this thread does in no way celebrate the Waffen-SS. It endeavors only to understand--through pictures--a crucial organization that participated in and influenced an equally crucial moment in history.

At the same time I understand your frustration. Growing up in New York City, there were many wealthy Jewish families in my neighborhood. Despite their wealth, they would never be seen driving a BMW, Volkswagen, Audi, or Mercedes because of the respective (and often limited) participation of these companies in the German war effort.

However, censoring the open discussion or viewing of history is antithetical to your argument. No matter how offensive or repugnant the modus operandi of the SS was, it is absolutely essential that the perpetuation of a critical, visceral, and uncensored history be maintained.

[Pvt.Anderson]

SS= Born and trained MURDERS not SOLDIERS.

I hope they'll never find peace.

first of all you've proven to be a jackass by saying born(...) murders

so if most of them haven't been soldiers how come they've been used as the fire brigade in the eastern front rushing from area to area to prevent russian breakthroughs ?

just another point have you heard of Mr.Ratzinger ? He was forced to serve in the SS as it was very common in war's last months ; another type of volkssturm that was

@Switek
remembering and learning from the past is of utmost importance . but some winning powers make the impression that this ain't necessary for themselves since they're the winners :roll:

[Karo]

just another point have you heard of Mr.Ratzinger ? He was forced to serve in the SS as it was very common in war's last months ; another type of volkssturm that was


Ehm, afaik Ratzinger was just in the HJ/AA gun helper/RAD, but not in the SS, or is it a misunderstanding?

[beNder]

Hey, I thought this was a pic thread. :)

[Canuck Farrier]

Hey, I thought this was a pic thread. :)

Hells yes....it sure is.Hard to tell now though eh.p-)

[maloryII]

Here is an image to placate our Polish detractor. p-)

Sort of graphic... but not really.

[beNder]

This is a great thread, with lots of pics that I have saved and have never seen before. I will not complain! :)

[Karo]

Soldiers of the Prinz Eugen with an MG 37(t).

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/7229/prinzeugen1418mn.jpg

[teutateswolf-n]

I agree,

The SS is large organization with various types of services. One of these services was the Waffen-SS, and most of the Waffen-SS were "ordinary" elite troops. They killed enemies, but every army do it at war, and a few of them are to be considered as war criminals but there are also war criminals in the other armies (accused or not depending if you are defeated or victorious)...I don't say that war crime is good. It's better if you can respect your enemy, and if you don't assinate unarmed and non-dangerous civilians, but just understand that it's not the speciality of the Waffen-SS (of course, some other services of the SS had criminal missions)

[Navor]

Sorry, but thats bull****. Only members of the 3. SS-Panzerdivision "Totenkopf" were in constantly personal exchange with the concentration camp guards. Primary men who were too young or too old or too heavy injured for the front service (but there were also a lot of foreigners in their rows) were used as concentration camp guards.
So for example
boys who were too young for front service were put in the concentration as guards and told to see the prisoners of these camps as subhumans and to treat them like animals etc.
Later they came to the front line troops and now its no surprise that they showed again a very brutal behaviour against the enemy..

It was said further but its such an complex theme, you just cant put all in one bowl..

And even in the 3rd SS those who came from KZs were seen as "Judenhelden"
which litteraly means Jewish Heroes.So this Guardsman were not much respected from the sight of Frontline Soldiers of Totenkaopf

[Ghostryder]

Nobody likes a flamer less than me, but I feel as a member of this forum I need to say this. As an American Jew of European extraction the only normative statement I can make about the SS is:

They were a very interesting organization, and quite intriguing to study, but I'm happy most members are six feet under.

[Pvt.Anderson]

Ehm, afaik Ratzinger was just in the HJ/AA gun helper/RAD, but not in the SS, or is it a misunderstanding?

No dude it was the "daily mirror" or some english boulevard newspaper , which seems to be nearly as serious as the german "bild" .
They claimed he was in the Waffen SS ,i will try to find the article somewhere

EDIT : Here you have the evidence that he was in it , not the english article i was trying to find but a german one from the ZDF

http://www.zdf.de/ZDFde/inhalt/16/0,1872,2349328,00.html

[Karo]

Also this article states that he wasnt in the SS.

Der Rekrutierung zur Waffen-SS konnte sich der angehende Priesterschüler entziehen.

[DIU]

Sorry, but thats bull****. Only members of the 3. SS-Panzerdivision "Totenkopf" were in constantly personal exchange with the concentration camp guards.
I haven’t affirmed that all or even the most part of SSmen served as combat soldiers as camp guardsmen. Naturally, the interior rotation was inevitably limited, especially from 1943 when the Waffen SS divisions began to suffer heavy losses and be replenished as usual army units. This partly explains why the prevailing majority of former SSmen from the combat units were not specially repressed after 1945 not only in the West, but also in the East Germany.

Nevertheless, there was no formal distinction between “combat SSmen” and “guard SSmen”, they all had the same identification documents and each of them was obliged to serve there where the party and SS leadership had sent him; the interchange of personnel between various detachments was not rare event. In other words, SS was a united centralized organization, and separation of “criminal detachments” from “non-criminal detachments” within it is nonsensical; they all accomplished particular tasks in the interests of the same ideology. Thus, the distinction can be made only between the complete “curricula vitarum” of particular members of SS, the fact of service in the Waffen SS division in 1944 or 1945 didn’t guarantee “crystal-clear biography”.

Primary men who were too young or too old or too heavy injured for the front service (but there were also a lot of foreigners in their rows) were used as concentration camp guards.

The most part of concentration camp guards and various chasteners were quite young and healthy people. There are a lot of evidences that they were often sent to the front as a punishment for various disciplinary, material-financial, administrative etc. offences.

[neophyte77]

There is a defference between SS and Waffen-SS

[Godspeed]

There is a defference between SS and Waffen-SS

You mean: Allgemaine-SS and Waffen-SS?

[Karo]

I haven’t affirmed that all or even the most part of SSmen served as combat soldiers as camp guardsmen. Naturally, the interior rotation was inevitably limited, especially from 1943 when the Waffen SS divisions began to suffer heavy losses and be replenished as usual army units. This partly explains why the prevailing majority of former SSmen from the combat units were not specially repressed after 1945 not only in the West, but also in the East Germany.

Nevertheless, there was no formal distinction between “combat SSmen” and “guard SSmen”, they all had the same identification documents and each of them was obliged to serve there where the party and SS leadership had sent him; the interchange of personnel between various detachments was not rare event. In other words, SS was a united centralized organization, and separation of “criminal detachments” from “non-criminal detachments” within it is nonsensical; they all accomplished particular tasks in the interests of the same ideology. Thus, the distinction can be made only between the complete “curricula vitarum” of particular members of SS, the fact of service in the Waffen SS division in 1944 or 1945 didn’t guarantee “crystal-clear biography”.

This is nearly correct. In 1942, the concentration camps became a part of the Waffen-SS. Now the guards also get the Waffen-SS uniforms in fieldgray and the salary books. The guards could also now say that they were "just" soldiers. But this is of course not true and so many men of the Totenkopfdivision tried to distance themselves from the guards. But as i said then there wasnt a constantly personal exchanges (or only a very rare) between other front line divisions than the Totenkopf. Btw to the end of war there were also members of the Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine used as guards.


The most part of concentration camp guards and various chasteners were quite young and healthy people. There are a lot of evidences that they were often sent to the front as a punishment for various disciplinary, material-financial, administrative etc. offences.
Most of the guards were just those who arent able to fight at the front, i mentioned it before. And its no surprise that this rest was sometimes the scum of Germany. But there were also a lot of foreign "volunteers" especially from the Ukraine who had become guards. The guards from Ukraine are reported to be the worst and brutalest kind of guards. (->Trawniki) They got another uniform (black one) and another identity card. Im not sure but maybe you meant these guys who were send to the front line as punishment because they should had been in a better physical condition. And yes, corruption and other enrichment of the guards by exploiting the inmats of the concentration camps was quite common, sadly.

[psychoticweazel]

There is a lot of talk on a thread thats supposed to be all about pics. Some of the talk I can apreciate as it is informative but the flaming all the flaming.........

[turska]

Waffen-SS men who had wounded at the front were sent to camp guard duty to recover in light service. (occasionally) Altough those posts to camp guard duty were usually short. A month or two.

And 1943 - 1945 lots of men were drafted direclty into Waffen-SS from concsription pool without being asked if the people would like to serve in wermach instead...

[Pvt.Anderson]

And 1943 - 1945 lots of men were drafted direclty into Waffen-SS from concsription pool without being asked if the people would like to serve in wermach instead...

that's correct

[Karo]

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/4529/wssmachinegunners0sb.jpg

[ELCI]

SS= Born and trained MURDERS not SOLDIERS.

I hope they'll never find peace.



....ouupsss i did it again.suspended for a week.

Reason:
Flame bait

Personal opinions and not based on fact.

here some facts:

The SS was a a paramilitary (not soldiers) organisation.
They've been murder from the first moment of creation (former SA)in german concentration camps before september 1939 (WW2).
The Nurnberg trial declared the SS organisation guilty for warcrimes and crime against the humanity.
They've murdered millions innocent civilians inside of several hundreds of work,concentration and prisoner camps all over europe.
They've murdered several thousands civilians in punitive actions all over europe (Babi Yar etc.).
They've murdered british soviet,french and us prisoners of war.(RIP)
It makes no sense to mention the so called "glory" of this organisation in any way,because there is no glory left for an organisation that admits to "EXTERMINATE" millions of civilians (old people,woman and children).
Remember all of them where volunteer to joint the SS and up from 1938 nobody in germany ignore what was going on.

As so they where psychopathic,brainwashed and born MURDERS.
Everybody holding up the legend of "SS-GLORY" or defending theire bloody way in europe should make a visit to his psy.

This tread did not show one picture of SS killing his victim. Only strong fighting men.Remember that the russian mass graves where filled by these men.

I've been for long years in Berlin Germany and i had the time to study in Berlin Document Center the SS-Files and statements made from former members of SS.Later i had contact with a lot of them.
There was "NO REGRETS" for what they've done. 30 years later and still no regrets at all because they followed theire orders.
In fact the problem was that most of them known these "orders" long time before entering the SS.
I guess i've understand what "Vernichtungslager" (Extermination Camp) means.


At least.
Glorification of evil is evil.
Glory goes to the armed and unarmed man and woman who fights agains them.
Glory goes to those ones who stands upright to theire last breath.

Following some SS pics


http://www.deathcamps.org/belzec/pic/bigp49.jpg


http://www.deathcamps.org/sobibor/pic/bigp20.jpg

http://www.deathcamps.org/reinhard/pic/bigpelkinie01.jpg

[Ronguild]

....ouupsss i did it again.suspended for a week.

Reason:
Flame bait

Personal opinions and not based on fact.

here some facts:

The SS was a a paramilitary (not soldiers) organisation.
They've been murder from the first moment of creation (former SA)in german concentration camps before september 1939 (WW2).
The Nurnberg trial declared the SS organisation guilty for warcrimes and crime against the humanity.
They've murdered millions innocent civilians inside of several hundreds of work,concentration and prisoner camps all over europe.
They've murdered several thousands civilians in punitive actions all over europe (Babi Yar etc.).
They've murdered british soviet,french and us prisoners of war.(RIP)
It makes no sense to mention the so called "glory" of this organisation in any way,because there is no glory left for an organisation that admits to "EXTERMINATE" millions of civilians (old people,woman and children).
Remember all of them where volunteer to joint the SS and up from 1938 nobody in germany ignore what was going on.

As so they where psychopathic,brainwashed and born MURDERS.
Everybody holding up the legend of "SS-GLORY" or defending theire bloody way in europe should make a visit to his psy.

This tread did not show one picture of SS killing his victim. Only strong fighting men.Remember that the russian mass graves where filled by these men.

I've been for long years in Berlin Germany and i had the time to study in Berlin Document Center the SS-Files and statements made from former members of SS.Later i had contact with a lot of them.
There was "NO REGRETS" for what they've done. 30 years later and still no regrets at all because they followed theire orders.
In fact the problem was that most of them known these "orders" long time before entering the SS.
I guess i've understand what "Vernichtungslager" (Extermination Camp) means.


At least.
Glorification of evil is evil.
Glory goes to the armed and unarmed man and woman who fights agains them.
Glory goes to those ones who stands upright to theire last breath.


Calm down my friends.
My country (France) and my family have suffered a lot because of the german occupation; but we have to admit that the waffen-SS was a sharp and efficient weapon.
you are right to notice that many murders were commited by those men but like all the german ground forces (W-SS, HEER and LUFTWAFFA field divisions).
One waffen-SS unit can be proud and keep her honor safe (No civilian killing at all !!) : 5th SS-panzerdivision WIKING.

[seawolf688]

sad that this thread can't function without a flame war that attracts every homo from every nook and crany of the world.

atrocities were committed by both sides. allies and axis. the only reason the allies are whitewashed was the fact they won. i'm sure every unit, in every theatre had at least 1 person who did something unethical with regards to rules of warfare. deal with it, move on; everyone is guilty, nobody is guilty.

[ELCI]

[quote=seawolf688;2275082]

atrocities were committed by both sides. allies and axis. the only reason the allies are whitewashed was the fact they won. [quote]


:bash:

[vetjen]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/be/6SSLMPGDA.jpg
Flemisch SS


My grandfather fought with this division, to protect the Flemisch people agaist communism and because the church told them to fight against communism.

[Schizo]

My grandfather fought with this division, to protect the Flemisch people agaist communism and because the church told them to fight against communism.

Herr Adolf was known for his great love to the church :roll:

[SturmPionier]

http://sava4.strana.germany.ru/kukriniksi.jpg

Can someone translate wthats written there?

[dostanes.do.tlamy]

atrocities were committed by both sides. allies and axis. the only reason the allies are whitewashed was the fact they won.

This is poor joke... :bash:

[vetjen]

Herr Adolf was known for his great love to the church :roll:


That was not the thing I ment, what I wanted to say is, here in Belgium the church dictated to all young people, go and fight togheter with the germans to defeat the communism.

[Slinky]

http://sava4.strana.germany.ru/kukriniksi.jpg

Can someone translate wthats written there?

"For estonian men who fought 1940-1945 against bolshevism and for estonian independance"

[tommy00]

Herr Adolf was known for his great love to the church :roll:

So was comrade Jossif......

[SturmPionier]

"For estonian men who fought 1940-1945 against bolshevism and for estonian independance"


Thank you :)

[Ronguild]

Last picture doesnt look right to me.
He isnt using the Mg42 correctly.

You are right, the last picture is dated the 90s !
It was a reenactement organized by the french magazine MILITARIA during summer 1993 (I've got the original !!!)

[He219]

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/9958/6543229hg6.jpg
With the 15th-century fortress-palace of Ivangorod in the background, German troops are seen crossing the Narova river at Narva, to liberate Soviet-occupied Estonia, in August 1941, during the German invasion of the Soviet Union
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5819/32799463vv0.jpg
German soldiers stand guard over what Berlin sources described as Soviet soldiers who were taken captive as they fled from their burning tanks August 15, 1941
http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/4531/32799462wh2.jpg
A Soviet soldier captured in the fighting Luga, is examined by Storm Trooper German soldiers October 17, 1941.
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8544/6487734mu0.jpg
German artillerymen wave a Swastika flag to alert the Stuka bomber pilots above them of their position at the German-Russian front line between Belgorod and Orel, on August 3, 1943

[Schizo]

So was comrade Jossif......

I didn't deny it.

[mikcem]

I understand why everone has an opinion but if you werent there how can you judge EG Two soldiers are on a road they wear uniform ,they are
approached by a civilian (man0 pushing a baby in a pram app . ten metres
away he pulls an automatic weapon from the pram and fires killing one soldier . the weapon then jams ,the surviving soldier points his weapon
at the gunman who immediatly drops his weapon "Dont shoot I surrender"
What should the soldier do? Shoot him ? Lets say a photojournalist comes on the scene he cannot see the dead soldier but he photographs the soldier threatening a civilian . The photo is published all over the world
The purpose of my little story is this Their are two sides to every story .
Here is another great site www.feldpost.tv (http://www.feldpost.tv)

[Sinfulcurves_AK107]

Does anyone have pis of SS with Panzerfaust's?

[He219]

Does anyone have pis of SS with Panzerfaust's?
Somezing like zis?
p-)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/militarypix/fresh/more/more/even%20more/more/will%20it%20ever%20end/more/badass.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/militarypix/fresh/more/more/even%20more/more/will%20it%20ever%20end/more/panzerschrek.jpg

[Maglan]

keep the pics rolling

[CPL Trevoga]

my great grandfather was never a nazi and never professed to be so. he joined because he was a young man in a europe polarized by 2 sides; one of soviets russia and the other of nazi germany. he never liked either, but explained that he thought germany was the lesser of two evils, but still evil, nonetheless.

you can flame the governments all you want, the leaders, the stupid ideologies. yes, there were genuine nazis in the germany military, and their beliefs should be condemned, but the vast majority of combatants on both sides were just there because they had to, including much of the waffen ss. the allgemeine ss is a group to be scorned and shamed. some of the waffen ss should also be shamed, as should some of the french, americans, english, canadians, etc.

before you condemn soldiers and the things they do in war, take a step back, think, and then keep your f*cking mouth shut.....because your opinion means exactly jack to me.

just my 2 pennies worth. btw, this is being written by a jew, very proud of my culture and heritage, and in no way "self-hating" in case someone tries to come from that angle with a low blow.

That some crazy story my friend, Jew serving in the SS. Europa, Europa comes to mind. Did Germans knew you gradpa was a Jew?

[Sinfulcurves_AK107]

Somezing like zis?
p-)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/militarypix/fresh/more/more/even%20more/more/will%20it%20ever%20end/more/badass.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/militarypix/fresh/more/more/even%20more/more/will%20it%20ever%20end/more/panzerschrek.jpg

yep! those are some sweet pix, spanx ;)

[Maglan]

nice pictures

[Douros81]

bosnian muslim SS allies
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/hanjar-book.jpg
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/u-legion.jpghttp://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/mufti.jpg
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/muslimss.gif
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/muf-han.jpg
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/han-arm.jpg
http://www.srpska-mreza.com/handzar/han1.jpghttp://www.srpska-mreza.com/handzar/han14.jpg


The sad thing about this, is that if Hitler would of won, in the end he'd kill them off too, because they were not Germans.

[PsychoMantis]

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/1727/walloonssmansharinghisrqv0.jpg

Checkout this Facist wolf feeding this innocent Russian Boy.

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/9323/tank692sy6.jpg
Look,The monstrous Medic is helping an enemy Russian soldier.

[maloryII]

Nice pictures. (I could do without the commentary.)

[Karo]

Please dont start again a flame war..

@PsychoMantis: AS far as i see, these are soldiers from the Wehrmacht, not from the Waffen-SS.

[PsychoMantis]

Nice pictures. (I could do without the commentary.)
Sorry,sarcasm simply does not go well on the internet.

[Karo]

Somezing like zis?
p-)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/militarypix/fresh/more/more/even%20more/more/will%20it%20ever%20end/more/badass.jpg



Isnt this a soldier from the Heer? Afaik its a picture from the battle in the hurtgen forest..

Here is a clearer one:

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/2623/waffsspanzerfaust1ykez6.png

[Karo]

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/305/mnzs64912zi3.jpg

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/555/mnzs650512xa2.jpg

[Sheikh Al Stranghi]

:roll: Some picture's are very difficult to sie if the are Waffen SS, the only unit in the hole of WOII who wore camoflage clothes.

Units with camouflaged clothing that I know of:

(This is ETO only)

Heer (yes, not just SS)
SS
Luftwaffe
British airborne
Some US airborne pathfinders
part of the 2nd US armored division


Eerrmmm I'm sure I'm forgetting things here, but at least these I can remember right now.

[Sheikh Al Stranghi]

This is poor joke... :bash:

Indeed a poor joke, because it's the truth.

[Karo]

Units with camouflaged clothing that I know of:

(This is ETO only)

Heer (yes, not just SS)
SS
Luftwaffe
British airborne
Some US airborne pathfinders
part of the 2nd US armored division


Eerrmmm I'm sure I'm forgetting things here, but at least these I can remember right now.


US Marines

[Hydro]

US Marines



US Marines didn't fight in the ETO as complete units.


British Commandos used Denison smocks too.

[gaijinsamurai]

The Soviets had their own camoflage too.

As far as the German camouflage went, Heer and SS cammo were very different and distinctive.

[Karo]

Soldiers from the "Götz von Berlichingen" and Paratroopers from the 6. FJR

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/690/17gvbmc9.jpg



Also notice the G 41.

[Karo]

US Marines didn't fight in the ETO as complete units.


British Commandos used Denison smocks too.


Ah, sorry overread the ETO.

[nnnn87]

With the 15th-century fortress-palace of Ivangorod in the background, German troops are seen crossing the Narova river at Narva, to liberate Soviet-occupied Estonia

Ivangorod - pure estonian name for the city. that part of estonia is actually the historical russian land occupied by estonians after 1917 when they supported lenin

[tommy00]

Ivangorod - pure estonian name for the city. that part of estonia is actually the historical russian land occupied by estonians after 1917 when they supported lenin

Oh,man,...go back to school,.....education is screaming after you.....

Ivangorod-pure russian name,...Jaanilinn in estonian....

And after 1917, we were fighting against Lenin(communists), not supporting...

[nnnn87]

And after 1917, we were fighting against Lenin(communists), not supporting...
against lenin? you sent troops to Petersburg to help him at the critical moment in 1917 and betreyed the North-Western White Army.
you need to learn history, and not estonian version of it of course

[Karo]

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/4531/32799462wh2.jpg



SS-Polizei, if im not wrong.

[Hukatus]

against lenin? you sent troops to Petersburg to help him at the critical moment in 1917 and betreyed the North-Western White Army.
you need to learn history, and not estonian version of it of course
you, my friend, are dumb as a brick.
North-Western White Army was indeed eventually disarmed by estonian army but estonia was never allied with Lenin's red army.
Estonian War of Independence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Liberation_War)
The Bolsheviks began a counter-offensive in July 1919, which regained much ground lost during the Estonian offensive, but the Northwestern Army survived. With arms provided by Britain and France and supported by the Estonian army, Estonian warships and the British Royal Navy, the Northwestern Army began an offensive on September 28, 1919, with the aim of capturing Petrograd. White Russian forces approached as close as ten miles from Petrograd, but the Bolshevik leader Leon Trotsky gathered "an army of workers and soldiers", which was able to repulse Yudenich's troops and force their retreat back into Estonia where the Estonians, fearing the danger presented by a potential armed mob, disarmed and interned them. The Bolsheviks continued to make determined assaults on fortified positions at the Estonian border, but exhausted themselves. A ceasefire came into effect on January 3, 1920.

[CPL Trevoga]

against lenin? you sent troops to Petersburg to help him at the critical moment in 1917 and betrayed the North-Western White Army.
you need to learn history, and not Estonian version of it of course

I believe it was Latvians who sent troops and yes, Baltic in generally supported Lenin, for exchange of their independence.

[Alex-L]

EVERYONE READ!

I want to thank the ones that have discussed (not argued) in this thread and posted pictures. I knew very little of the SS (yes I knew what history told us blah blah). I have learned alot from this thread, thank each of you.

Now stop arguing or this is gunna get locked and ruin it for alot of people.

[nnnn87]

North-Western White Army was indeed eventually disarmed by estonian army but estonia was never allied with Lenin's red army.

disarm antibolshevik army is of course not to help lenin.
you are really dumb

[nnnn87]

I believe it was Latvians who sent troops and yes, Baltic in generally supported Lenin, for exchange of their independence.
it was "latvian" army, but it included estonians too.

[PhilTN]

Nomatter what's said about Waffen SS in comparison with other branches
or whatever their warcrimes were...

The Waffen SS fought all across europe and russia...all the soldiers did...
german, american, russian...

I think our modern day society doesn't have a slight clue of what they
had to go through...not even the USMC currently fighting in Bagdad...

That is nothing compared to what our tough ancestor from all countries
had to go through....

I comparison to our modern societies, those "kids", WaffenSS like 101st AD,
were something that you won't find in our societies anymore...

and thus you can sip your coffee and sit in your warm room and write
something about the Waffen SS pussies or you guys just STFU
and do what this thread is about.... posting picutres....

I am not a Nazi and I don't respect soldiers who did commit any kind
of war crimes...but I do respect every soldiers toughness and hardships
and what they all had to go through

Phil

[dostanes.do.tlamy]

Nomatter what's said about Waffen SS in comparison with other branches
or whatever their warcrimes were...

The Waffen SS fought all across europe and russia...all the soldiers did...
german, american, russian...

I think our modern day society doesn't have a slight clue of what they
had to go through...not even the USMC currently fighting in Bagdad...

That is nothing compared to what our tough ancestor from all countries
had to go through....

I comparison to our modern societies, those "kids", WaffenSS like 101st AD,
were something that you won't find in our societies anymore...

and thus you can sip your coffee and sit in your warm room and write
something about the Waffen SS pussies or you guys just STFU
and do what this thread is about.... posting picutres....

I am not a Nazi and I don't respect soldiers who did commit any kind
of war crimes...but I do respect every soldiers toughness and hardships
and what they all had to go through

Phil

My grandad was wehrmacht soldier. He have iron cross I. and II. class, other decoration. He was two-times budly hurt. In his 22 he was 100% invalid. But he had biggest fear in war, when SS stopped their hospital-train and started shooting light-wounded soldiers. And he was totally disgusted, when SS took jewish children on sea and came back without children.

[ELCI]

My grandad was wehrmacht soldier. He have iron cross I. and II. class, other decoration. He was two-times budly hurt. In his 22 he was 100% invalid. But he had biggest fear in war, when SS stopped their hospital-train and started shooting light-wounded soldiers. And he was totally disgusted, when SS took jewish children on sea and came back without children.


..Thanks for that.As i wrote once on MP.NET they (SS) had no regrets at all.

Even years after the fall of nazi germany they still was proud about theire "total racist bloodjob".

Most of them was still convinced about theire "superieur arien race" and theire "right to exterminate jews" in 1975. (30 years later)

[ELCI]

...but I do respect every soldiers toughness and hardships
and what they all had to go through

Phil


SS members where no soldiers.The SS was a paramilitary (Murder) organisation.

[Slinky]

SS members where no soldiers.The SS was a paramilitary (Murder) organisation.

now thats a weird and pretty false comment

[Canuck Farrier]

SS members where no soldiers.The SS was a paramilitary (Murder) organisation.

This thread is about the SS Fighting Formations.Start your own thread if you want to talk about war crimes.

[PhilTN]

Most of them was still convinced about theire "superieur arien race" and theire "right to exterminate jews" in 1975. (30 years later)
you knew most of them? ....SS committed alot of war crimes...but there's
a difference between the SS guards and the Waffen SS ...

The grandpa from a goodfriend was WaffenSS but not a Nazi....there is
also a difference between early and late Waffen SS recruits...

There were foreign WaffenSS units...know what I mean? you cant generalize

[afreu]

How can you talk about Waffen SS and not talk about war crimes?

For starters:

- May 1940 Wormhoudt, France
- 7. June 1944 Normandy, France
- 10. June 1944 Oradour sur-Glance, France
- 1944 Malmedy, Belgium
- 12. August 1944 Sant'Anna di Stazzema, Italy
- 2. Septembre 1944 Lucca, Italy

Perhaps not every Waffen SS member was a real Nazi but the organisation as a whole is clearly responsible for numerous war crimes.

[dostanes.do.tlamy]

you knew most of them? ....SS committed alot of war crimes...but there's
a difference between the SS guards and the Waffen SS ...

The grandpa from a goodfriend was WaffenSS but not a Nazi....there is
also a difference between early and late Waffen SS recruits...

There were foreign WaffenSS units...know what I mean? you cant generalize

Yes, I know. SS were good boys. First EU forces.....:cantbeli:And Himmler wasn't so bad. He just made some errors, but he had good idea. :cantbeli:

[East Scout]

Nomatter what's said about Waffen SS in comparison with other branches
or whatever their warcrimes were...

The Waffen SS fought all across europe and russia...all the soldiers did...
german, american, russian...

I think our modern day society doesn't have a slight clue of what they
had to go through...not even the USMC currently fighting in Bagdad...

That is nothing compared to what our tough ancestor from all countries
had to go through....

I comparison to our modern societies, those "kids", WaffenSS like 101st AD,
were something that you won't find in our societies anymore...

and thus you can sip your coffee and sit in your warm room and write
something about the Waffen SS pussies or you guys just STFU
and do what this thread is about.... posting picutres....

I am not a Nazi and I don't respect soldiers who did commit any kind
of war crimes...but I do respect every soldiers toughness and hardships
and what they all had to go through

Phil

Well said...........

[ELCI]

you knew most of them? ....SS committed alot of war crimes...but there's
a difference between the SS guards and the Waffen SS ...

The grandpa from a goodfriend was WaffenSS but not a Nazi....there is
also a difference between early and late Waffen SS recruits...

There were foreign WaffenSS units...know what I mean? you cant generalize


My friend, there is no need to know all off them.I've meet a lot of them and by the way i hope they're are all dead now or at least they will die very soon and be trialed by the highest instance for theire crimes.

I know "the grandpa from your good friend" and yes he was not a nazi....pssst at the end of ww2 there where no nazis left in germany,austria,france etc. etc.....ploof ploouuff simply all gone like a fart.It's magic!!

And you know what my friend??? I guess the "NAZI-GERMANY" was a legend made by jewish-bolshevists.

In a few days we're going commemorate D-DAY because it was 63 year ago when allied "SOLDIERS" landed in normandy to hunt the "beast".Those who never had the chance to come back home are men of honor....not the members of SS.

The SS (organisation,former SA) was a german paramilitary organisation.The german army was "Wehrmacht,Marine and Luftwaffe".

[beNder]

Guys, take the politics out of this thread, it a pic thread. Don't get it locked with your bickering.

[Karo]

My friend, there is no need to know all off them.I've meet a lot of them and by the way i hope they're are all dead now or at least they will die very soon and be trialed by the highest instance for theire crimes.

I know "the grandpa from your good friend" and yes he was not a nazi....pssst at the end of ww2 there where no nazis left in germany,austria,france etc. etc.....ploof ploouuff simply all gone like a fart.It's magic!!

And you know what my friend??? I guess the "NAZI-GERMANY" was a legend made by jewish-bolshevists.

In a few days we're going commemorate D-DAY because it was 63 year ago when allied "SOLDIERS" landed in normandy to hunt the "beast".Those who never had the chance to come back home are men of honor....not the members of SS.

The SS (organisation,former SA) was a german paramilitary organisation.The german army was "Wehrmacht,Marine and Luftwaffe".


Never read more bull**** than this. Please stop posting in this forum. Thanks.

[k98_man]

The W-SS was known for their crimes, but they were great warriors. In most cases in order to fight for the Germans if you were not a German citizen you HAD to be in the W-SS. I have spoken to many W-SS members, who had nothing against the Jews, but against the Russians. They wanted to fight for their families and homes. If a war was started unjustly by your leader, but your families survival was in the balance what would you do? Would you betray your own people or fight for your family.

Take a look at what it was to be a male at the time period. Not only was propaganda a huge part of their lives, but so was honor. I have spoken to many Wehrmacht and W-SS vets, and they tell me it was never for Hitler, (they made fun of him when the officers weren't around), but for the man next to them and their brothers and sisters.

If you do look at the battle records, the W-SS has some pretty impressive numbers. Against the French, Greeks, and Russians they were great fighters, but as supplies dwindled and the allies joined forces where could they go? What could they do? The United States fought against German troops mid 44 and onward after years of German troops being battered down by enemies from all sides. The 12th SS as well as the 2nd, 5th, 6th, 11th, 17th and 18th. I could go on but I'd rather not. Unless someone replies I will not post any more political views and only photos!

EDIT: ELCI: The SS was not former SA. The SA were basically thrown by the wayside and they joined mainly the Heer and kriegsmarine.

[k98_man]

Here is a poster that I own that is recruiting for Norwegians.

http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPages/Documents/images/D-305.JPG

[namblah]

this is a picture only thread, if you want to do waffen-ss-bashing, start a new thread somewhere else. the ridiculous simplification of what waffen-ss did or did not goes on my nerves. in another 50 years, people will have the distance needed, to talk about that time seriously, without that pathetic emotional aspect.

[callous]

Not sure if these were posted yet.
http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/6637/grenadier1gz7.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/9186/rhjaf3.png
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3892/waffenssey3.jpg

[Morboute]

Just look at the Spanish civil war a few years earlier. Alot of people joined that one to fight the ones with the "wrong" political ideals.
Same thing with alot of the people in W-SS, they joined to fight communism.
F@cking shame about all the people that died in WW2 :-( (with a few exceptions)

anyways, less politics and more pictures!

[Snoshi]

The W-SS was known for their crimes, but they were great warriors. In most cases in order to fight for the Germans if you were not a German citizen you HAD to be in the W-SS. I have spoken to many W-SS members, who had nothing against the Jews, but against the Russians. They wanted to fight for their families and homes. If a war was started unjustly by your leader, but your families survival was in the balance what would you do? Would you betray your own people or fight for your family.

Take a look at what it was to be a male at the time period. Not only was propaganda a huge part of their lives, but so was honor. I have spoken to many Wehrmacht and W-SS vets, and they tell me it was never for Hitler, (they made fun of him when the officers weren't around), but for the man next to them and their brothers and sisters.

If you do look at the battle records, the W-SS has some pretty impressive numbers. Against the French, Greeks, and Russians they were great fighters, but as supplies dwindled and the allies joined forces where could they go? What could they do? The United States fought against German troops mid 44 and onward after years of German troops being battered down by enemies from all sides. The 12th SS as well as the 2nd, 5th, 6th, 11th, 17th and 18th. I could go on but I'd rather not. Unless someone replies I will not post any more political views and only photos!

EDIT: ELCI: The SS was not former SA. The SA were basically thrown by the wayside and they joined mainly the Heer and kriegsmarine.

They wanted to fight for their families and homes
Are you fking serious? That would be true if someone would have invaded Germany... But they went to fight to Soviet Union to get more Lebensraum for the glorious Aryan nation... They went to fight for the ideology they were brainwashed in. Also many of the SS soldiers were volunteers from other countries.. Surly they joined SS to fight for their countries and home?
I love these posts.. Noone in SS hated Jews.. They all loved them. They only joined SS to fight for their brothers and sisters and noone of them were nazis.. They liked everyone... I have nothing against Wehrmacht soldiers. But SS ****s should RIH.

[Slinky]

Are you fking serious? That would be true if someone would have invaded Germany... But they went to fight to Soviet Union to get more Lebensraum for the glorious Aryan nation... They went to fight for the ideology they were brainwashed in. Also many of the SS soldiers were volunteers from other countries.. Surly they joined SS to fight for their countries and home?
I love these posts.. Noone in SS hated Jews.. They all loved them. They only joined SS to fight for their brothers and sisters and noone of them were nazis.. They liked everyone... I have nothing against Wehrmacht soldiers. But SS ****s should RIH.

"Also many of the SS soldiers were volunteers from other countries.. Surly they joined SS to fight for their countries and home?"

yes that is actually very true

[Snoshi]

"Also many of the SS soldiers were volunteers from other countries.. Surly they joined SS to fight for their countries and home?"

yes that is actually very true

yeah.. Meyby when it comes to Estonia.

But from Norway?Spain?Sweden?Holland?

[East Scout]

"Also many of the SS soldiers were volunteers from other countries.. Surly they joined SS to fight for their countries and home?"

yes that is actually very true


Most Waffen/SS defending Berlin in 45 were'nt even German at that point.

[ELCI]

The W-SS was known for their crimes, but they were great warriors. In most cases in order to fight for the Germans if you were not a German citizen you HAD to be in the W-SS. I have spoken to many W-SS members, who had nothing against the Jews, but against the Russians. They wanted to fight for their families and homes. If a war was started unjustly by your leader, but your families survival was in the balance what would you do? Would you betray your own people or fight for your family.

Take a look at what it was to be a male at the time period. Not only was propaganda a huge part of their lives, but so was honor. I have spoken to many Wehrmacht and W-SS vets, and they tell me it was never for Hitler, (they made fun of him when the officers weren't around), but for the man next to them and their brothers and sisters.

If you do look at the battle records, the W-SS has some pretty impressive numbers. Against the French, Greeks, and Russians they were great fighters, but as supplies dwindled and the allies joined forces where could they go? What could they do? The United States fought against German troops mid 44 and onward after years of German troops being battered down by enemies from all sides. The 12th SS as well as the 2nd, 5th, 6th, 11th, 17th and 18th. I could go on but I'd rather not. Unless someone replies I will not post any more political views and only photos!

EDIT: ELCI: The SS was not former SA. The SA were basically thrown by the wayside and they joined mainly the Heer and kriegsmarine.


Bull.... !!! In no way Stalin and the Red Army was a dangerous "case" for the west of Europe or for nazi germany.
Remember Stalin was allied with Hitler to rush into poland in 1939 but in the same time german members of communist party was in german concentration camps since 1933.

The germans where fanatical blinded and couldn't see what' going on.

[Maglan]

Listen ELCI and all the rest of you stupid f*cks on this thread. This is a picture thread....strictly pictures and perhaps a few comments on the pictures. Take your stupid back and forth discussions someplace else. Nobody cares which way you think about the Waffen SS. Take your ideas to a discussion forum and keep your pie holes shut on here.

Utilize some of the military discipline that you may or may not have and keep the "strictly photos and videos" thread just that. Grow up, mature, and realize that arguing on the internet is an excellent display of your childish nature.

[Maglan]

anybody have any pictures of the Indian WSS unit? or any pics of some of the other obscure and weird units out there?

[East Scout]

Not SS but Indian..Looks like Normandy

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m210/eastscout/untitled-2.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m210/eastscout/yujtgu.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m210/eastscout/ifg.jpg

[East Scout]

One of my Favoret SS pics..The soldier in the front looks like Bruce Wills..;-)

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m210/eastscout/ljh.jpg

[East Scout]

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m210/eastscout/uio.jpg

[East Scout]

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m210/eastscout/opye.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m210/eastscout/berlin1945-a.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m210/eastscout/p_ss226.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m210/eastscout/mcet.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m210/eastscout/jigytdf.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m210/eastscout/polizei_division__leningrad__5__s3_.jpg

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m210/eastscout/polizei_division__leningrad__1__s3_.jpg

[PhilTN]

My friend, there is no need to know all off them.I've meet a lot of them and by the way i hope they're are all dead now or at least they will die very soon and be trialed by the highest instance for theire crimes.

I know "the grandpa from your good friend" and yes he was not a nazi....pssst at the end of ww2 there where no nazis left in germany,austria,france etc. etc.....ploof ploouuff simply all gone like a fart.It's magic!!

And you know what my friend??? I guess the "NAZI-GERMANY" was a legend made by jewish-bolshevists.

In a few days we're going commemorate D-DAY because it was 63 year ago when allied "SOLDIERS" landed in normandy to hunt the "beast".Those who never had the chance to come back home are men of honor....not the members of SS.

The SS (organisation,former SA) was a german paramilitary organisation.The german army was "Wehrmacht,Marine and Luftwaffe".
nazi germany was not a legend from jews....6 million jews and gypsies died in fact and it's
just speaking for your immaturity that you want to put those words into
my mouth...

All I want to do is make clear that yadda yadda blabbering kids like you
shouldn't fake the fact that not every german was/is a Nazi...and the
same goes for the fighting force of the SS... you will surely find more
Nazis among the SS than Wehrmacht..butin the end..in the trenches...
when you'v seen the horrors of war and you'r not a superstupid naive
nazi you will very fast forget about uncle hitler's propaganda and the
nice marching with the hitler youth boys...

wanne say ...many people may be called "Nazis"..who enjoyed and marched
along with the Nazis...when they were young kids...not seeing what
happened...but realizing in the end...

the hardcore guys went abroad..or killed themselves...

and after the war of course noone was a Nazi anymore...it's a known
fact that the people didn't wanne feel responsible for things that happened
not through them but Hitler, and then...felt...guilty...they called themselves
Nazis but...the hardcore Nazis...is something different then ...

well....absolutely wrong thread...anyhow...just stop talking about this...
not just your immaturity sucks but also that you don't seem to know
anything about the organisations.... SS former SA..???.:roll: your truely
an expert...and I'm a Nazi now eh?

[Freibier]

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/4039/waffensspg3opener2jw2.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5053/waffensscombatdz7.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9325/waffenss2headeropenerfx7.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/927/ssoffshortcarserv05ut2.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7189/ssoffshortcarserv04xm0.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8459/ssoffshortcarserv02ya0.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/236/ringgotzvonberwaff15ao8.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7333/ringgotzvonberwaff11bk7.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1502/origwafflessmd42hell02kg9.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2088/lahvictoryring11ao9.jpg
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/4747/lahvictoryring07rz2.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3334/grbagswv1.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9476/germitmisopisi05nc8.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3094/waffenssnewpg4openerox8.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/290/waffenssdivwikfork02ed1.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/193/wafsshaliddisk08vr7.jpg

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3916/wafsshaliddisk07en3.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5061/wafsshaliddisk05al9.jpg
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5184/waffensspicturejl2.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1100/waffensspg3openerqd0.jpg

[East Scout]

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m210/eastscout/germitmisopisi05nc8.jpg

Who are these soldiers? Italians?

[Freibier]

Italian volunteers attached to LAH

[Deminer from Sarajevo]

Russian cossack waffen SS(I think was one division under comman of general Krasnow who was general in Civil war in Russia 1917-20) from Russian migrants in Europe and late was made another division recruited in occupated Sovjet Union

[East Scout]

Thankn..Cossacks have always interested me.

[PRMC09]

Found this picture a while back whilst browsing some WW2 history forums.

Not sure about this, but claims to be from a dude's grandfather who served in Africa.
Thing is the SS wasn't in Africa. However I did read that the GFP (Secret Field Police) were present and there could have been former Waffen SS members there.

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/8549/sscrossironxa2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Hydro]

I'm not sure if the SS was even employed in Africa. At first glance, that photo looks rather spurious.

[PRMC09]

I'm not sure if the SS was even employed in Africa. At first glance, that photo looks rather spurious.

Yea thats what I thought too, the only chance of SS was former SS, or as I mentioned in the GFP which was there along with some regular MP's and intelligence personnel who were perhaps members of the SS, but that's all I could gather.

[East Scout]

There's cactus in the background, so.....That soldier could have picked that shirt up anywhere..It means very little.

There were Brandenburg Kommandos in NA. They (some) were former SS but I dont think this is the case. Its simply a shirt.

[Morboute]

I'm not sure if the SS was even employed in Africa. At first glance, that photo looks rather spurious.


x2 looks modern turned into black and white.
and they didn't really hide their faces for cameras back then

[Morboute]

Is it just me or does the cactus lack a shade?

[East Scout]

Yep, it simply must be a conspiracy.........please.

[pepsi]

Well if you look at the image files info, it says it was taken with an N70 phone camera....

lol

[East Scout]

Maybe its a picture of a picture!...

[Freibier]

No, lol
fake

[East Scout]

If you say so..To me its just another oddity we'll never know the answer to..Until I see proof, its a matter of opinion.

[Freibier]

Don't take my word for it but I think the guy who took the pic meant that the Iron Cross in his hand was from his grandfather that served in africa and not the pic

[Karo]

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m210/eastscout/jigytdf.jpg

Reenactors.

[East Scout]

i thought that too..The site was in Czech so I couldnt read it..Mosty of the other pics were surely war time so there ya have it....

[ELCI]

nazi germany was not a legend from jews....6 million jews and gypsies died in fact and it's
just speaking for your immaturity that you want to put those words into
my mouth...

All I want to do is make clear that yadda yadda blabbering kids like you
shouldn't fake the fact that not every german was/is a Nazi...and the
same goes for the fighting force of the SS... you will surely find more
Nazis among the SS than Wehrmacht..butin the end..in the trenches...
when you'v seen the horrors of war and you'r not a superstupid naive
nazi you will very fast forget about uncle hitler's propaganda and the
nice marching with the hitler youth boys...

wanne say ...many people may be called "Nazis"..who enjoyed and marched
along with the Nazis...when they were young kids...not seeing what
happened...but realizing in the end...

the hardcore guys went abroad..or killed themselves...

and after the war of course noone was a Nazi anymore...it's a known
fact that the people didn't wanne feel responsible for things that happened
not through them but Hitler, and then...felt...guilty...they called themselves
Nazis but...the hardcore Nazis...is something different then ...

well....absolutely wrong thread...anyhow...just stop talking about this...
not just your immaturity sucks but also that you don't seem to know
anything about the organisations.... SS former SA..???.:roll: your truely
an expert...and I'm a Nazi now eh?

In the beginning (1925) most of SS men where former SA members.
There where recruited by Adolf Hitler himself as his "personal guard" from the SA-Stabswache (later Adolf-Hitler Stosstrupp) and came under leadership of Maurice,Schreck,Heiden and later Himmler.

Maurice,Schreck,Heiden and Himmler where former SA men.

SS-Membership Numbers

Hitler 0001
Maurice 0002
Schreck 0005
Himmler 0168


:cantbeli:

[PRMC09]

Well if you look at the image files info, it says it was taken with an N70 phone camera....

lol



Maybe its a picture of a picture!...

Doubt it, call it a fake. thanks for the help guys.

[k98_man]

In the beginning (1925) most of SS men where former SA members.
There where recruited by Adolf Hitler himself as his "personal guard" from the SA-Stabswache (later Adolf-Hitler Stosstrupp) and came under leadership of Maurice,Schreck,Heiden and later Himmler.

Maurice,Schreck,Heiden and Himmler where former SA men.

SS-Membership Numbers

Hitler 0001
Maurice 0002
Schreck 0005
Himmler 0168


:cantbeli:

The original purpose of the SS was to restrict the power of the SA and it's leaders. The SA didn't have the obedience to Hitler like he wanted so after he was done using them he "disposed" of them (killed the leader including Rohm). They were no longer to force behind Hitler so it split up for the most part. Some Hitler loyalists from the SA went to the SS no doubt, but the SA was many millions men strong, and most joined Wehrmacht units or Kriegsmarine right away or towards the end of the war.

And they are right. If someone wants me to create a thread on the W-SS I would be happy to, but I will not respond here. This is for pictures. Let me find some nice ones.

[Slinky]

stop posting bull**** and political crap, and get to posting pictures!!
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/7909/waffenub8.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2481/waffenvv3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3953/waffen2no0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/7096/waffen3ar7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7235/waffen4kp6.png (http://imageshack.us)
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/797/waffen5zh1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[k98_man]

Oh forgot to tell you all. The picture in my avatar is a picture of an original photo that I own. It is of a either SS or Polizei division PAK crew. I will get an enlarged version when I get home for you all.

P.S: You can tell by the decal on the helmet that it's SS or Polizei.

EDIT: Slinky: I am glad you have the website posted on the W-SS Estonian volunteers (20.SS-Estonian Division was an excellent combat group). I am visiting the owner of that site in Estonia and around Narwa this summer.

[Slinky]

Oh forgot to tell you all. The picture in my avatar is a picture of an original photo that I own. It is of a either SS or Polizei division PAK crew. I will get an enlarged version when I get home for you all.

P.S: You can tell by the decal on the helmet that it's SS or Polizei.

EDIT: Slinky: I am glad you have the website posted on the W-SS Estonian volunteers (20.SS-Estonian Division was an excellent combat group). I am visiting the owner of that site in Estonia and around Narwa this summer.

nice! and be sure to give a good beating for those grave diggers around narwa when you see one.

[k98_man]

I will be doing my digs myself in old bunkers and what have you, but I would never robe a grave. If I saw anyting like that...:bash:

It should be fun and helpful for my book.

[Godspeed]

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/685/arnejohansson11ssfreiwizh3.jpg

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/6362/11ssfreiwilliegenpanzerbq8.jpg

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/8316/11ssfreiwilliegenpanzerkj2.jpg

http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9145/markusledinandwillywollgo7.jpg

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/812/11ssfreiwilliegenpanzerja2.jpg

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/8674/swedishfreiwillieg11ssfxb3.jpg

[Karo]

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/812/11ssfreiwilliegenpanzerja2.jpg

Thats a civilian..

[Godspeed]

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/812/11ssfreiwilliegenpanzerja2.jpg

Thats a civilian..

According to my references she is a scandinavian WSS nurse killed by russian armour after a breakout attempt over the Grossbeeren-Brücke 1-2 of may 1945 in Berlin (Friedrichstrasse), the vehicle is command wagon no:9 of 3 company/3 platoon of the Swedish company 11.SS Freiwilliegen-Panzergrenadier Division Nordland.

[PsychoMantis]

Their caps certainly are pretty cool.

http://www.aberjonapress.com/catalog/wss/images/p34_soldier.jpg

http://www.aberjonapress.com/catalog/wss/images/p57_norwegian.jpg

http://aeronautics.ru/img/img006/waffen_ss_006.jpg

http://forum.axishistory.com/files/in_action_203.jpg

http://forum.axishistory.com/files/5th_ss_wiking-_finnish_volunteers__in_action_on_kalmucken_steppe_in_early_43___2nd_pic.jpg

http://forum.axishistory.com/files/5th_ss_wiking-norwegian_grenadier_767.jpg

http://forum.axishistory.com/files/wiking_pioneerid.jpg

http://forum.axishistory.com/files/wiking_panter_1944.jpg

http://forum.axishistory.com/files/wiking_mees_flammiga.jpg

http://forum.axishistory.com/files/5th_ss_wiking__2_.jpg

[Karo]

According to my references she is a scandinavian WSS nurse killed by russian armour after a breakout attempt over the Grossbeeren-Brücke 1-2 of may 1945 in Berlin (Friedrichstrasse), the vehicle is command wagon no:9 of 3 company/3 platoon of the Swedish company 11.SS Freiwilliegen-Panzergrenadier Division Nordland.


Whats your source if i may ask?

If i remember correctly, the photo shows a woman who tried to hide herself in this half track. The half track itself could had been one from the Nordland, but why do you think she was a W-SS nurse? Only because of the medi kit?

I may be wrong, but wasnt this scene also used in the movie The Downfall?

[k98_man]

Whats your source if i may ask?

If i remember correctly, the photo shows a woman who tried to hide herself in this half track. The half track itself could had been one from the Nordland, but why do you think she was a W-SS nurse? Only because of the medi kit?

I may be wrong, but wasnt this scene also used in the movie The Downfall?

I don't think it was used in the movie downfall.

[Karo]

http://aeronautics.ru/img/img006/waffen_ss_006.jpg


Luftwaffe... :roll:

[Godspeed]

Whats your source if i may ask?

If i remember correctly, the photo shows a woman who tried to hide herself in this half track. The half track itself could had been one from the Nordland, but why do you think she was a W-SS nurse? Only because of the medi kit?

I may be wrong, but wasnt this scene also used in the movie The Downfall?

My source is the author of the book "Ragnarök" written by Erik Wallin present at that day.....

[PsychoMantis]

http://forum.axishistory.com/files/wiking_panther.jpg

http://forum.axishistory.com/files/wiking_320.jpg

http://forum.axishistory.com/files/pi.btl.5__wiking.jpg

http://forum.axishistory.com/files/5th_ss_wiking___cherkassy_108.jpg

http://forum.axishistory.com/files/5th_ss_wiking_panther_poolas1944.jpg

http://forum.axishistory.com/files/5th_ss_wiking-death_ride_poland_1944.jpg

http://forum.axishistory.com/files/5th_ss_wiking_div.-_finnish_grenadiers_154.jpg

http://forum.axishistory.com/files/5th_ss_recon_patrol__russia_1942_142.jpg

http://forum.axishistory.com/files/wiking_mehed_tankimiinidega.jpg

http://forum.axishistory.com/files/wiking_mehed.jpg

http://forum.axishistory.com/files/wiking3.jpg

[Karo]

I don't think it was used in the movie downfall.


Tada here i found it:

http://www.youtube.com/v/EIocj9hmEsE

(also in this scene she looks more like a civilian in my opinion)

[Godspeed]

Tada here i found it:

http://www.youtube.com/v/EIocj9hmEsE

(also in this scene she looks more like a civilian in my opinion)

Dude.....dont you think they ripped that part from from the pic?

[Karo]

Yes dude i think so, and i wrote it in a previous post..

[Godspeed]

Yes dude i think so, and i wrote it in a previous post..

:| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :| :|

[Freibier]

WWII eastern front,
I rather have a Waffen SS division covering my flank than anything else ...

[k98_man]

Nice find, I was incorrect.

[k98_man]

Hello East Scout,

You have a picture of a Indian sleeve shield (it was worn by Wehrmacht and SS in the same location). The one you show is, however, a fake. Here is a picture of an original Indian sleeve shield.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=722876&stc=1&d=1180325300

[k98_man]

Here is an Indian one that is pretty neat. Sideways, but worth the head tilt.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=722877&stc=1&d=1180325681

[k98_man]

Here is a signed portrait that I have. The man is Leo Avermaete. He is an SS man, but it is strange because he is wearing a Panzer tunic while he has an Infantry assault badge.

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/6923/picture009ss2.jpg

[Johnny_H]

Tank commanders often would visit front line positions to scout out enemy strong points, and recce their positions before deploying their armour.

If the ruskies attacked that position while they were there, they would fight with the infantry for survival. Its quite possible for tank crew or commanders to of received infantry decorations for such actions.

I even remember reading of one such tank ace, I can't remember which but it was in the book "Panzer Aces vol.1 " by Franz Kurowski, one of these tankers actually got their hands on a sniper rifle and pegged a Russian sharpshooter that was harassing German lines and killing all their snipers who attempted to dislodge the Russian.
It could also be noted that the SS Tank corps were regarded as the elite of the elite, from what I have researched quite a few Whermacht tankers transfered into these units, not due to ideology but the fact that they were quite simply put the favorite tank units and would see the best equipment befor anyone else would.

[afreu]

Just pics:

http://lenny.liquid-skill.de/cadavr.jpg

Fritz Klein
http://lenny.liquid-skill.de/800px-Ss-offizier-fritz-klein.jpg

Oradour-sur-Glane
http://lenny.liquid-skill.de/oradour.jpg

Sant'Anna di Stazzema
http://lenny.liquid-skill.de/stazzema.jpg

[Johnny_H]

Dude we ****ing get it ok? jesus I am getting tired of this.
I am not nor is anyone here defending the NAZI party or their sinister goals.
We are well aware of the Holocaust and no attempt in this thread has been made to diminish it or challenge its significance.

This is purely a MILITARY PHOTO's thread, and unless you want to show us Waffen SS combat arm troops doing what is done in your pictures backed up by sources, then keep it out of here. If you want to make a thread about how evil all Germans were and how they were all facist pigs hell bent on killing and murdering everything that wasn't German we have a political rants forum, which will surely get the attention it deserves.

Stop being a goddamn tool.
I'm sorry about the outburst but this is getting goddamn ludicrous.

[k98_man]

Yes it's getting annoying. Thanks for finally posting pictures instead of sharing your views, but this is not the right kind. Back to W-SS photos!

Thanks for the info Johnny. I knew this sort of thing happend, but I still found it cool to see it in a picture.

[afreu]

Yes it's getting annoying.

That's the point!

[dostanes.do.tlamy]

Please, delete this thread. This is not suport-nazi-forum(I hope).

[Johnny_H]

Please, delete this thread. This is not suport-nazi-forum(I hope).

dude you are being a PONCE nowhere is it indicated we are or anyone here is a "Nazi Supporter".

[mannelig]

Please, delete this thread. This is not suport-nazi-forum(I hope).

Please, delete yourself. That thread is all about photos, nothing more!!!:bash:

[Loki77]

Den Norske Legion... Originally, this unit was promised to be a fully Norwegian one, with Norwegian uniforms, weapons, language and officers.
Of course, this illusion never came true. The main purpose of this formation was to join the Finnish forces in their fight against the Russians...
Source (http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Den_norske_legion)

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/1261/dnlmannnowegienhh8.jpg

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/2434/poster4md4.jpghttp://img170.imageshack.us/img170/1641/poster1de5.jpg

[hammerlock]

That's the point!


Do you not get it, just because you post or look at Waffen SS pictures, it doesn't make it you a Nazi nor a rasist. Just like posting pictures of Soviet troop doesn't you mean you support the mass murder Joe Stalin.

Get over it.

[k98_man]

That's the point!

Well make your point in an other thread. Follow the rules.

[k98_man]

http://www.ushmm.org/photos/61/61138.jpg

[k98_man]

http://www.patchesofpride.com/poppics/decalsets/waffensspanzerdivisionchart.gif

K- 33rd Waffen SS Gren Division "Charlemagne"
L- 11th Frw Panzer Gren Division "Nordland"
M- 5th SS Panzer Division "Wiking"
N- 36th Waffen SS Gren Division "Dirlewanger"
O- 19th Waffen SS Gren Division "Latvian No. II"
P- 20th Waffen SS Gren Division "Estonian No. I"
Q- 21st Waffen Geb Div der SS "Skanderbeg"
R- 22nd WW Frw Kav Division "Maria Theresa"
S- 6th SS Mountain Division "Nord"
T- 37th SS Vol Cavalry Division "Lutzow"
U- 27th SS Vol Gren Division "Flemish No. I"
V- 28th SS Vol Panzer Gren Division "Wallonie"
W- 29th Waffen SS Gren Division "Italian No. I"
X- 30th Waffen SS Gren Division "Russian No. II"
Y- 7th SS Vol Mountain Division "Prinz Eugen"
Z- 10th SS Panzer Division "Frundsberg"
AA- 38th SS Panzer Gren Division "Nibelungen"
BB- 23rd SS Vol Panzer Gren Division "Nederland"
CC- 12th SS Panzer Division "Hitlerjugend" (Hitler Youth)
DD- LSSAH
EE- Liebstandarte SS
FF- 9th SS Panzer Division "Hohenstaufen"
GG- 16th SS Panzer Gren Division "Reichsfuhrer SS"
HH- 17th SS Panzer Gren Division "Gotz von Berlichingen"
JJ- 18th SS Vol Panzer Gren Division "Horst Wessel"
KK- 13th SS Mountain Division "Handschar"
LL- 14th SS Waffen Gren Division "Galizische No. I"
MM- 8th SS Cavairy Division "Florian Geyer"
NN- 1st SS Panzer Division "Liebstandarte"
OO- 2nd SS Panzer Division "Das Reich"
PP- 3rd SS Panzer Division "Totenkopf"
QQ- 4th SS Panzer Division "Polizei Division"
RR- Gross Deutschland Division

[Freibier]

It's Leibstandarte not Liebstandarte and Grossdeutschland was no SS divison

[k98_man]

It's Leibstandarte not Liebstandarte and Grossdeutschland was no SS divison

Haha, now that I look at it, I know. I just copied and pasted from a site as a rough guide for some people.

[Canuck Farrier]

I like the 36th div insignia crossed grenades.p-) was the ss unit insignias created by the men of the units or from the top.

[Maglan]

A lot of the formation tags up there, including the 36th and a majority of the late-war tags, have never been confirmed by any records. Most likely they are just fantasy unit symbols created by WWII buffs with good imagination, in the same way that many uniform items are post-war fakes.

[JackTheRipper]

Waffen SS also had the indisches infanterie legion (symbol: a tiger head) and another italian divison, la 24a Kartsjager

[Maglan]

freiwilligen indianische, for example, wouldn't have a divisional tag, as it never reached divisional strength, and existed as only a legion. Same with the british freiwilligen legion, etc.

The tiger head of the indianische legion is actually a post-war fake. the only insignia that distinguished the indians from other WSS personnel was their indian volunteer arm shield, the same used by the heer, and their lack of SS runes on their uniforms. in fact, many indian volunteers retained their heer collar tabs.

Here is what appears to be a complete list of divisions i ripped off wikipedia

1. SS-Panzer-Division „Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler“ (LSSAH) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/1._SS-Panzer-Division_Leibstandarte-SS_Adolf_Hitler)
2. SS-Panzer-Division „Das Reich“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-Verf%C3%BCgungsdivision)
3. SS-Panzer-Division „Totenkopf“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-Division_Totenkopf) (aus SS-Totenkopf-Verbänden (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-Totenkopf-Verb%C3%A4nde) gebildet)
4. SS-Polizei-Panzergrenadier-Division (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/4._SS-Polizei-Panzergrenadier-Division)
5. SS-Panzer-Division „Wiking“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/5._SS-Panzer-Division_%E2%80%9EWiking%E2%80%9C)
6. SS-Gebirgs-Division „Nord“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/6._SS-Gebirgs-Division_%E2%80%9ENord%E2%80%9C)
7. SS-Freiwilligen-Gebirgs-Division „Prinz Eugen“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/7._SS-Freiwilligen-Gebirgs-Division_%E2%80%9EPrinz_Eugen%E2%80%9C)
8. SS-Kavallerie-Division „Florian Geyer“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/8._SS-Kavallerie-Division_%E2%80%9EFlorian_Geyer%E2%80%9C)
9. SS-Panzer-Division „Hohenstaufen“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/9._SS-Panzer-Division_%E2%80%9EHohenstaufen%E2%80%9C)
10. SS-Panzer-Division „Frundsberg“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/10._SS-Panzer-Division_%E2%80%9EFrundsberg%E2%80%9C)
11. SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Division „Nordland“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/11._SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Division_%E2%80%9ENordland%E2%80%9C) (auch „Nordwind“ genannt)
12. SS-Panzer-Division „Hitlerjugend“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/12._SS-Panzer-Division_%E2%80%9EHitlerjugend%E2%80%9C)
13. Waffen-Gebirgs-Division der SS (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/13._Waffen-Gebirgs-Division_der_SS_%E2%80%9EHandschar%E2%80%9C_%28kroatische_Nr._1%29) „Handžar (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand%C5%BEar)“ (kroatische Nr. 1) (siehe auch Hadsch Amin (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Amin_al-Husseini))
14. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (galizische Nr. 1) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/14._Waffen-Grenadier-Division_der_SS_%28galizische_Nr._1%29), später (ukrainische Nr. 1)
15. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (lettische Nr. 1) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/15._Waffen-Grenadier-Division_der_SS_%28lettische_Nr._1%29)
16. SS-Panzergrenadier-Division „Reichsführer SS“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/16._SS-Panzergrenadier-Division_%E2%80%9EReichsf%C3%BChrer_SS%E2%80%9C)
17. SS-Panzergrenadier-Division „Götz von Berlichingen“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/17._SS-Panzergrenadier-Division_%E2%80%9EG%C3%B6tz_von_Berlichingen%E2%80%9C)
18. SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Division „Horst Wessel“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/18._SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Division_%E2%80%9EHorst_Wessel%E2%80%9C)
19. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (lettische Nr. 2) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/19._Waffen-Grenadier-Division_der_SS_%28lettische_Nr._2%29)
20. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (estnische Nr. 1) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/20._Waffen-Grenadier-Division_der_SS_%28estnische_Nr._1%29)
21. Waffen-Gebirgs-Division der SS „Skanderbeg“ (albanische Nr. 1) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/21._Waffen-Gebirgs-Division_der_SS_%E2%80%9ESkanderbeg%E2%80%9C_%28albanische_Nr._1%29)
22. SS-Freiwilligen-Kavallerie-Division „Maria Theresia“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/22._SS-Freiwilligen-Kavallerie-Division), (bestand zum Großteil aus ungarischen Volksdeutschen)
23. Waffen-Gebirgs-Division der SS „Kama“ (kroatische Nr. 2) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/23._Waffen-Gebirgs-Division_der_SS_%E2%80%9EKama%E2%80%9C_%28kroatische_Nr._2%29), (frühzeitig wieder aufgelöst)
23. SS-Freiwilligen-Panzer-Grenadier-Division „Nederland“ (niederländische Nr. 1) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/23._SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Division_%E2%80%9ENederland%E2%80%9C)
24. Waffen-Gebirgs-(Karstjäger-)Division der SS (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/24._Waffen-Gebirgs-%28Karstj%C3%A4ger-%29Division_der_SS), (italienisch-österreichisch-slowenische Provenienz)
25. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS „Hunyadi“ (ungarische Nr. 1) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/25._Waffen-Grenadier-Division_der_SS_%E2%80%9EHunyadi%E2%80%9C_%28ungarische_Nr._1%29)
26. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (ungarische Nr. 2) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/26._Waffen-Grenadier-Division_der_SS_%28ungarische_Nr._2%29), auch unter den Ehrennamen Gömbös bzw. Hungaria bekannt
27. SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division „Langemarck“ (flämische Nr. 1) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fl%C3%A4mische_Legion)
28. SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Division „Wallonien“ (wallonische Nr. 1) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/28._SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Division_%E2%80%9EWallonien%E2%80%9C_%28wallonische_Nr._1%29), auch: „Wallonie“
29. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS „RONA“ (russische Nr. 1) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/29._Waffen-Grenadier-Division_der_SS_%E2%80%9ERONA%E2%80%9C_%28russische_Nr._1%29), (aufgelöst im November 1944)
29. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS „Italia“ (italienische Nr. 1) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/29._Waffen-Grenadier-Division_der_SS_%E2%80%9EItalia%E2%80%9C_%28italienische_Nr._1%29), (auch „Legione SS Italiana“ genannt)
30. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (russische Nr. 2) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/30._Waffen-Grenadier-Division_der_SS_%28russische_Nr._2%29), (frühzeitig wieder aufgelöst)
30. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (weißruthenische Nr. 1) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/30._Waffen-Grenadier-Division_der_SS_%28wei%C3%9Fruthenische_Nr._1%29)
31. SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/31._SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division), (wird oft auch mit dem Ehrennamen (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehrenname) „Böhmen und Mähren“ geführt)
32. SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division „30. Januar“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/32._SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division_%E2%80%9E30._Januar%E2%80%9C), (inklusive 32. SS-Regiment „Kurmark“)
33. Waffen-Kavallerie-Division der SS (ungarische Nr. 3) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/33._Waffen-Kavallerie-Division_der_SS_%28ungarische_Nr._3%29), (Anfang 1945 in Budapest vernichtet)
33. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS „Charlemagne“ (französische Nr. 1) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/33._Waffen-Grenadier-Division_der_SS_%E2%80%9ECharlemagne%E2%80%9C_%28franz%C3%B6sische_Nr._1%29)
34. SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division „Landstorm Nederland“ (niederländische Nr. 2) (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/34._SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division_%E2%80%9ELandstorm_Nederland%E2%80%9C)
35. SS- und Polizei-Grenadier-Division (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/35._SS-_und_Polizei-Grenadier-Division)
36. Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/36._Waffen-Grenadier-Division_der_SS) (aus der SS-Sturmbrigade Dirlewanger (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Dirlewanger) hervorgegangen)
37. SS-Freiwilligen-Kavallerie-Division „Lützow“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/37._SS-Freiwilligen-Kavallerie-Division)
38. SS-Grenadier-Division „Nibelungen“ (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/38._SS-Grenadier-Division_%E2%80%9ENibelungen%E2%80%9C)

[Deminer from Sarajevo]

http://www.patchesofpride.com/poppages/pop227.html

[k98_man]

Thanks for the posts. I really didn't even look at the list so sorry for the innaccuracies.

The Indian Legion was known as "Azad Hind" and items from this legion are hard as hell to find (and expensive!).

[GunnerBhoy]

Theres alot of talk about the atrocities commited by the ss in this thread, by no means in anyway shape or form to i condone these acts of evil. But would you not consider the instantanious killing of 200,000 civilians an atrocitie? i am for the record refering to Nagasaki and Hiroshima. I say again i am in no way defending the SS but no side comes out of war innocent.

[k98_man]

Theres alot of talk about the atrocities commited by the ss in this thread, by no means in anyway shape or form to i condone these acts of evil. But would you not consider the instantanious killing of 200,000 civilians an atrocitie? i am for the record refering to Nagasaki and Hiroshima. I say again i am in no way defending the SS but no side comes out of war innocent.

You're correct as well as Dresden. These bombings were tactics to break the will of the German and Japanese people. This same thing was done by the SS on a more personal level. Both end results are horrible.

[GunnerBhoy]

The aim of my post was not to lessen the evils that the ss committed or in any way play them down, just saying that all sides committed horendous acts.

[k98_man]

I understand. I have the same views hence the part about both being horrible! :|

[Slinky]

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/2126/waffenvg0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/3453/waffen2ta1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[afreu]

With the tiny difference that Germany was the aggresor, we started the ****ing war.

[STuG]

The tiger head of the indianische legion is actually a post-war fake. the only insignia that distinguished the indians from other WSS personnel was their indian volunteer arm shield, the same used by the heer, and their lack of SS runes on their uniforms. in fact, many indian volunteers retained their heer collar tabs.

Just to clarify,this is not entirely true.

A photograph of the Indian SS tiger head collar tab in wear did indeed surface on collector forums a few years ago and deserves a post here to broaden the discussion.

The tab in question is possibly one of the rarest items of insignia from the volunteer units along with BFC items.

Many foreign volunteer items were taken back to the US following the liberation of Dachau by two US divisons as the camp had a huge storage facility and these have made their way onto the collector market in very large quantities (not the tab in question i hasten to add).

Insignia and headgear (sleeve eagles, sleeve shields,collar tabs, cap trapezoids,cuff titles, M43 caps, red and field grey fezzes etc) in particular were sent home in huge amounts by the GI's.

The common photographs of Indians in German service do indeed show men clothed in German tropical tunics in the main with standard Heer insignia (breast eagles and collar tabs) with the addition of their distinctive sleeve shield, a few photographs also show forlorn POWS in greatcoats (with sleeve shield) and continental wool tunics.

A similar situation existed with other collar tabs, for example, many maintained that the "Hunyadi" collar tab (the "H") was produced but never issued and worn. once again over the last couple of years some period documents(including a soldbuch with photo) have come to light showing that tab in wear during the war.

In any event, here is the photo of the Indian SS legionnaire wearing what appears to be the tiger head and blank rank collar tabs.

[Loki77]

Dutch-Indonesian in the Waffen SS...

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/5241/dutchsshk2.jpg

[Maglan]

great info on the indian legion and its insignia. i wouldnt have believed it if i hadnt seen it!

anybody have any more pic of obscure units and personnel? ive even heard that there were some arabs and bedouins that served in the WSS. anyone else heard this?

[JKA]

One waffen-SS unit can be proud and keep her honor safe (No civilian killing at all !!) : 5th SS-panzerdivision WIKING.

Just few points from me:

1) German formations fighting the Warsaw Uprising - situation 20.08.1944
Kampfgruppe A - commander: Major General Rohr
...
3rd Company, ADA Regiment, 5th SS-Panzerdivsion "Wiking"Source: Norman Davies "Rising 44"2) I admit to not having any information whether this unit commited any war crimes in Warsaw. I have no information whether it fought as infantry or as ADA, shooting RAF & USAAF planes above Warsaw.

3) As far as I know the official record of the 5th SS-Division is "clear"

Other SS/Waffen SS (my source makes no difference between them) units involved in Warsaw Uprising 1994:

"Dirlenwanger" SS Regiment - commander SS-Oberfuehrer Dirlenwanger
"Eastern-Muslim SS Regiment" (I'm translating name directly from Polish) [without 3rd Battalion]
1st Company, Grenadiers, SS-School Treskau
Heavy Maschine Gun Platoon & (Infantry?) Platoon from SS-Regiment "Roentgen" from Poznań/PosenSource: see aboveAnd now something from me:
As you might already understand, I'm a Pole, and citizent of Warsaw. As you may know, my city (over 1 million citizents before 1939) was leveled to the ground on the direct order of Adolf Hitler. Not to mention what happend the rest of my country. Naturally, this disables me to give an objective account.

Any way, the whole discussion seems for me as a bit... academic, unpractical. I don't consider Waffen-SS members as Soldiers. In my opinion it was a para-military formation, that later evolved into a paralell army or better: substitute of army of III Reich.

As for foreign Waffen-SS volunteers for eastern front... Well, they fought Stalin (that's nothing bad), but it sounds me like curing plague with cholera.

That would be all for now,
JKA

PS1: that's my first post, hope not so many mistakes...
PS2: if anyone comes to Warsaw, visit Warsaw Uprising Museum

[Karo]

http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6207/pot3rl1.jpg

[STuG]

anybody have any more pic of obscure units and personnel? ive even heard that there were some arabs and bedouins that served in the WSS. anyone else heard this?

In the Waffen SS?

That is something i have not encountered. I have heard a passing mention of Arabs in the employ of the SD...but no concrete source alas.

A substantial number of Arabs served with the German Army however in specially formed units.

[k98_man]

Okay let me fill you all in on foreign legions etc. I hope you find this post useful.

http://website.lineone.net/~thevolunteers/georgia_2.jpg
This is a sleeve shield used by Georgien volunteers. Here is one used for Turkistan:
http://website.lineone.net/~thevolunteers/Turkistan_1.jpg
About the Arabian units, there were these sorts of units. They were however almost exclusively mixed in the Wehrmacht, not the SS.
http://website.lineone.net/~thevolunteers/arabia_1.jpg
Here is a picture of an Arabian man wearing this patch.
http://website.lineone.net/~thevolunteers/picture1.jpg

Here is an other picture of the Indian legion:

http://website.lineone.net/~thevolunteers/picture2.jpg

Here is also something unfamiliar. Here is a Japanese man wearing a patch with the rising sun on a Heer uniform.

http://website.lineone.net/~thevolunteers/Picture_asian2.jpg

Here are some Georgien volunteers:

http://website.lineone.net/~thevolunteers/picture8.jpg

Here is an other Japanese man wearing Heer uniform that is a POW of American troops. It would seem the German troop behind him is as confused as his captor.

http://website.lineone.net/~thevolunteers/Asiatic21.jpg

Here is the last picture of Korean volunteers in the Heer.

http://website.lineone.net/~thevolunteers/Asiatic11.jpg

Special thanks to Ian for brilliant work in the field of studying foreign volunteers and their insignia.

[k98_man]

And for all you who are interested in the Indian legion, if you hold on a couple of weeks I MAY have 20 original photos from the Indian legion. It's going to cost me a pretty penny though...:bash:

[CPL Trevoga]

As for foreign Waffen-SS volunteers for eastern front... Well, they fought Stalin (that's nothing bad), but it sounds me like curing plague with cholera.


What is this, The New Polish History? Fighting Stalin my ass. SS boys were hard core nazis. Maybe some of them were too busy fighting Red Army, but all ethnic SS units (Estonians, Latvian and such) where not combat worthy, were busy killing civilians. There was a real reason why Red Army troops executed SS on the spot.

[beNder]

And for all you who are interested in the Indian legion, if you hold on a couple of weeks I MAY have 20 original photos from the Indian legion. It's going to cost me a pretty penny though...:bash:

Your efforts are appreciated! Lots of first seen photographs on this thread (for me at least).

[k98_man]

Well that lot of 20 photographs are originals so they are pretty much first seen for everyone. Keep your eyes open! :)

[Loki77]

k98_man... thanks for great pictures and information...

[Loki77]

Tatar Legion...An auxiliary unit of the SS formed after the German invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941.
Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatar_Legion)

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/6973/phkrimtat5pr9.gif

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7333/phkrimtat2aa9.gif

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9548/phkrimtat4qe5.gif

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5412/phkrimtat1px3.gif

[Douros81]

Were there any Greeks/units in the Waffen SS? :)

[k98_man]

Were there any Greeks/units in the Waffen SS? :)

The Greeks were some of the least cooperative with the Nazi regime, so I would be surprised. I know there were no divisions, but I would assume as with other nations, there were plenty of men who joined up in Wehrmacht units or perhaps Kriegsmarine.

I'll do some research for you.

[k98_man]

After doing some research here is what I have found.

In the occupation time the Greeks made Security Battalions to counteract the high numbers of resistance fighters. Some other units like the infamous "Poulos Verband" and "Skutari". There were some Greek SS and Polizei units known as "Greek Evzone".

A non military group formed was EEE or Ethniki Enosis Ellas or Greek Nationalist Socialist Party.

A good book on this particular subject I found is

HERAKLES & THE SWASTIKA: Greek Volunteers in the German Army,Police & SS 1943-1945 by AJ Munoz

Hope it helps.

[JackTheRipper]

Theres alot of talk about the atrocities commited by the ss in this thread, by no means in anyway shape or form to i condone these acts of evil. But would you not consider the instantanious killing of 200,000 civilians an atrocitie? i am for the record refering to Nagasaki and Hiroshima. I say again i am in no way defending the SS but no side comes out of war innocent.

it's true but the atrocities committed by SS are to a more "personal" level regarding dropping bombs... the killings have happened face to face and also the tortures.

[kalkun]

What is this, The New Polish History? Fighting Stalin my ass. SS boys were hard core nazis. Maybe some of them were too busy fighting Red Army, but all ethnic SS units (Estonians, Latvian and such) where not combat worthy, were busy killing civilians. There was a real reason why Red Army troops executed SS on the spot.

Pretty extensive knowledge you got there.:roll:

[Paparazzi]

Here is an other Japanese man wearing Heer uniform that is a POW of American troops. It would seem the German troop behind him is as confused as his captor.

http://website.lineone.net/~thevolunteers/Asiatic21.jpg



If my memory is correct,this guy is not a japanese ,he is a korean. originally he was conscripted into the Japanese Army as a korean volunteer.then was captured by soviet in the Far East Soviet and Japanese forces clashed at 1939,afterward he were given a chance to join the Soviets or pressed into Service.When the Germans invaded the Soviet Union ,he was captured once again,he joined Heer and was assigned to defending the Normandy Beaches,finally surrendering to the Allied forces at normandy beaches at 1944..

[xSloboxx]

Bosnians In Waffen SS .
Some handschar der Waffen SS photos

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/8746/mnzs58796aa8.jpg

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4092/mnzs58798fa4.jpg

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/876/mnzs62203wi3.jpg
Insignia on the sleeve of the soldier on left was worn by SS mountain units such as Handschar, Nord and Prinz Eugen

[k98_man]

Bosnians In Waffen SS .
Some handschar der Waffen SS photos

And SS Kama (not in service, was merged with handschar later).
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/876/mnzs62203wi3.jpg

Oh cool a Gebirgsjäger Handschar.

Paparazzi: Could you tell me a source? My friend does extensive research so it would be nice to get a source. Perhaps you're correct!

[k98_man]

Tatar Legion...An auxiliary unit of the SS formed after the German invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941.
Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatar_Legion)


More on the Tatar Legion:

http://website.lineone.net/~thevolunteers/Volga_Tartar_2.jpg
http://website.lineone.net/~thevolunteers/Volga_Tartar_6.jpg

[xSloboxx]

Oh cool a Gebirgsjäger Handschar.

Paparazzi: Could you tell me a source? My friend does extensive research so it would be nice to get a source. Perhaps you're correct!

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=21727&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30&sid=0eb5f5cde6164ef3d3cee02ef97fd192

[k98_man]

Thank you for the link, but I meant about the Japanese or Korean man in the Heer that Paparazzi was talking about.

[Karo]

k98_man, take a look: http://www.geocities.com/alvinlee_81/WarPics1.html

(click on "Asian soldiers in German service")

[Karo]

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/3662/frikorpsfrivillige0sfpl2.jpg