Waffen SS troops

[Bachelor]

[Eztyga]

Damn guy on the right is a kid :|


Young lions.

[Bachelor]

Names on armor....






Tiki !?

[The Beard]

5 Waffen SS Panzer Div "Wiking" and ladies....



Excuse my ignorance, but does Wiking mean they were volunteers from Scandinavian countries?

[Bachelor]

Excuse my ignorance, but does Wiking mean they were volunteers from Scandinavian countries?





The Vikings - in German Wikinger – were of course the dwellers of Scandinavia, who traveled around Europe’s shores from the 8th to the 11th century as pirates, merchants and founders of states.



5 SS-Panzer Division "Wiking"


SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 9 "Germania"
SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 10 "Westland"
SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment "Nordland"
Estnisches SS-Freiwilligen-Panzer-Grenadier-Batallion "Narwa"
Finnisches Freiwilligen-Batallion der Waffen-SS SS-Sturmbrigade "Wallonien"
SS-Panzer-Regiment 5
SS-Panzerjager-Abteilung 5
SS-Sturmgeschutz-Abteilung 5
SS-Sturmgeschutz-Batterie 5
SS-Panzer-Artillerie-Regiment 5
SS-Flak-Abteilung 5
SS-Werfer-Abteilung 5
SS-Panzer-Nachrichten-Abteilung 5
SS-Panzer-Aufklarungs-Abteilung 5
SS-Panzer-Pionier-Batallion 5
SS-Divisions-Nachschub-Abteilung 5
SS-Instandsetzungs-Abteilung 5
SS-Wirtschafts-Batallion 5
SS-Sanitats-Abteilung 5
SS-Feldlazarett 5
SS-Kriegsberichter-Zug 5
SS-Feldgendarmerie-Trupp 5
SS-Feldersatz-Battillon 5
I./SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 23 "Norge"
I./SS-Panzer-Grenadier-Regiment 24 "Danmark"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5th_SS_Panzergrenadier_Division_Wiking

http://axis101.bizland.com/Wiking1.htm

http://slesvigske.dk/wiking1.htm

[Supplanter]

I thought this would be as good a place as any to ask this, does anyone know what the ribbons connected to the jacket buttons mean? Do they denote an award, unit etc.

[STuG]

They are award ribbons.

The Iron Cross 2nd class on the left, and the War Merit Cross on the right in the two small thumbnails you have posted.

In the larger quoted pic in your post, you can see both awards being worn by the NCO with the large fish on the left. The man on the right also wears the ribbon bar for the Russian front medal in the approved manner above his breast pocket.

This too could be worn in a button hole with the higher award always taking precedence.

[Bachelor]

Soviet T-34 (varios mod.) in Waffen SS Panz.Div "Das Reich", "Totenkopf"........

[Bachelor]

[ViktorBravo]

Awesome pics as always Bachelor.

[Bachelor]

Fresh photos of Russia.
In Memory of break of blockade of Leningrad. Reconstruction.
On January, 25th, 2009. Village Nikolsky near to Leningrad.

[Bachelor]

Very cool Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LePtwmPr7Jw












Very cool Video:

http://www.youtube.com/v/LePtwmPr7Jw

[Rebus]

It's a pity in this photo the modern cigarette, but cool photos.

[Bachelor]

It's a pity in this photo the modern cigarette, but cool photos.

[Bachelor]

I thought this would be as good a place as any to ask this, does anyone know what the ribbons connected to the jacket buttons mean? Do they denote an award, unit etc.


They are award ribbons.

The Iron Cross 2nd class on the left, and the War Merit Cross on the right in the two small thumbnails you have posted.

In the larger quoted pic in your post, you can see both awards being worn by the NCO with the large fish on the left. The man on the right also wears the ribbon bar for the Russian front medal in the approved manner above his breast pocket.

This too could be worn in a button hole with the higher award always taking precedence.

Yes...

For Example two ribbons:

Sturmbannführer
15.Waffen-Grenadier-Division der SS
Josef Schwörer





and visual....





and.....

[Big Hobbit]

Nice pics, Bachelor. But I think these men are from Wehrmacht

[Bachelor]

Nice pics, Bachelor. But I think these men are from Wehrmacht

Probably.... Some photos so difficult for identification..., but so interesting....

[Kingswat]

Awesome pics.

[Big Hobbit]

[Big Hobbit]

[pkeating]

The first image is a cropped detail from a snapshot of in my collection of SS-Oscha Walter Hummel of SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500 on a home leave after earning his Parachutist Badge, the cloth version of which can be seen on his tunic.

The second image is of another of the NCOs from the Das Reich Division who were posted to the SS-Fallschirmjäger-Bataillon initially as training staff late in 1943.



Hummel’s parachutist licence and a studio portrait taken late in 1944 in Neustrelitz, during the formation of SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 600.



Walter Hummel during the advance through Drvar after the Battalion’s parrachute and gliderborne assault on the morning of 25.5.1944. Hummel jumped, as indicated by his protective kneepads.



Walter Hummel (on the bonnet/hood) with two comrades, returning from a patrol in Tito’s Wilys Jeep during mopping-up operations after the Battle of Drvar.



A parachutist licence in better condition, issued to SS-Utuf Walter Scheu, shown in his mugshot as a JNCO with the Wiking’s Reconnaissance Detachment before he was commissioned and posted to SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500. Like Hummel, he also served with SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 600 and survived the war.



Hand-coloured and retouched studio portrait of Scheu. This is the only known wartime image showing a Waffen-SS paratrooper wearing the Army pattern Parachutist Badge, albeit added by hand.



Slightly off-topic but an example of the Heer pattern Parachutist Badge as awarded to some of the SS-Fallschirmjäger (like Walter Scheu) while limited stocks lasted. Most of them, as you can see from photos here, got the Luftwaffe type.



More of the Das Reich NCOs posted to SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500 in October 1943 as training staff. Note the NCO wearing his jump badge on his tanker uniform.

Anyway, I hope some of you enjoyed looking at these images. If anyone has any nice images of the SS-Fallschirmjäger, or any other documentary material, I've been compiling stuff for a book for a few years now and I would like to hear from you.

PK

[Bachelor]

The first image is a cropped detail from a snapshot of in my collection of SS-Oscha Walter Hummel of SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500 on a home leave after earning his Parachutist Badge, the cloth version of which can be seen on his tunic.
The second image is of another of the NCOs from the Das Reich Division who were posted to the SS-Fallschirmjäger-Bataillon initially as training staff late in 1943.
Hummel’s parachutist licence and a studio portrait taken late in 1944 in Neustrelitz, during the formation of SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 600.
Walter Hummel during the advance through Drvar after the Battalion’s parrachute and gliderborne assault on the morning of 25.5.1944. Hummel jumped, as indicated by his protective kneepads.
Walter Hummel (on the bonnet/hood) with two comrades, returning from a patrol in Tito’s Wilys Jeep during mopping-up operations after the Battle of Drvar.
A parachutist licence in better condition, issued to SS-Utuf Walter Scheu, shown in his mugshot as a JNCO with the Wiking’s Reconnaissance Detachment before he was commissioned and posted to SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500. Like Hummel, he also served with SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 600 and survived the war.
Hand-coloured and retouched studio portrait of Scheu. This is the only known wartime image showing a Waffen-SS paratrooper wearing the Army pattern Parachutist Badge, albeit added by hand.
Slightly off-topic but an example of the Heer pattern Parachutist Badge as awarded to some of the SS-Fallschirmjäger (like Walter Scheu) while limited stocks lasted. Most of them, as you can see from photos here, got the Luftwaffe type.
More of the Das Reich NCOs posted to SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500 in October 1943 as training staff. Note the NCO wearing his jump badge on his tanker uniform.
Anyway, I hope some of you enjoyed looking at these images. If anyone has any nice images of the SS-Fallschirmjäger, or any other documentary material, I've been compiling stuff for a book for a few years now and I would like to hear from you.
PK

[simple jumper]

PK, thank you for sharing! Many never before seen photos there, great collection!

[STuG]

Just for the record,

it may prove beneficial to members to know that Mr.Keating is one of the best informed collectors/researchers pertaining to the SS-Fallschirmjäger Battalions.

When his work is finished, it will be quite something to behold i am sure.

[KrasotkaJS]

What happened to the guy (Oscha Walter Hummel) seen in the last set of pictures, after World War II?

[pkeating]

Walter Hummel is still alive.

PK

[Johnny_H]

This thread is fantastic, never ceases to amaze me.
Keep them comin fellas.

[Mousepad]

WSS Pzgrenadiers interrogate wounded Soviet pilot, presumably 1943 - Kursk




I posted this photo with original caption, but looking again, it looks like they helping German pilot, his shoulder boards look to thin to be Russian, bomber leather jacket, i don't remember those in SU (maybe LL, but US ones were slightly different, also i read that LL tanks were equipped with uniform, but never heard that planes were bundled with it too), and a hair-cut, in Russian pilots head gear helmet it can't be that pristine, also this bandaging thing for an enemy pilot (most hated guys by any grunt). Anyone?

[Bachelor]

I posted this photo with original caption, but looking again, it looks like they helping German pilot, his shoulder boards look to thin to be Russian, bomber leather jacket, i don't remember those in SU (maybe LL, but US ones were slightly different, also i read that LL tanks were equipped with uniform, but never heard that planes were bundled with it too), and a hair-cut, in Russian pilots head gear helmet it can't be that pristine, also this bandaging thing for an enemy pilot (most hated guys by any grunt). Anyone?

Hmmmm.... I think you are right. It's leather jacket of Luftwaffe. He looks as the German pilot, not Russian...

[mikcem]

The above photo is most definitely a German Pilot beng assisted . How many times I have seen this photo with captions about "SS Torture POW "
A photo is a frozen moment of time ,it cannot lie, but is very often misinterpreted :cantbeli:

[Mousepad]

Thanks guys for clearing things up. woot

[KoTeMoRe]

Most of your pics look like reenactors.


because they are...

[Nick063]

Damn! Poor guy

[Eztyga]

The above photo is most definitely a German Pilot beng assisted . How many times I have seen this photo with captions about "SS Torture POW "
A photo is a frozen moment of time ,it cannot lie, but is very often misinterpreted :cantbeli:

Whatever his nationality is, it looks like the grenadier (who, btw, is a motorcyclist, note position of his gasmask canister) is simply stepping across the prone pilot in order to render assistance.

[Bachelor]

[magron]

Although the Waffen-SS is frequently considered an elite organization not all of its units were actually elite. Some Waffen-SS units formed after 1943 had less than ideal combat records. This was in part due to the fact that the number of volunteers eligible for service in the Waffen-SS shrank as the war continued while the need for replacements increased. The number of conscripts taken into the Waffen-SS of lesser quality or questionable ability had a direct impact on combat effectiveness.

After WWII ended the Waffen-SS was condemned at the Nurnberg Trials as a criminal organization. This was in part due to a series of high profile atrocities and because of their connection to the SS and NSDAP. Only those who were conscripted into the Waffen-SS were exempt from the Nurnberg declaration. As a result Waffen-SS veterans were generally denied the rights and benefits granted to other WWII German veterans. Waffen-SS prisoners of war were often held in strict confinement and were treated harshly by the Soviets. Many foreign volunteers that served in the Waffen-SS were also treated severely by their national governments. In the years since WWII there have been attempts to rehabilitate the image and legality of Waffen-SS veterans, both through legislation and in published works by former officers like Paul Hausser (Soldaten wie andere auch - Soldiers Like Any Other). To this day the stigma on veterans from the Waffen-SS remains.
http://www.feldgrau.com/main1.php?ID=5

Any pictures on how they were dressed at their trials? Before and afters would be good.

[simple jumper]

It was their uniform stripped of any insignia or award.

[pkeating]

A well-known shot of two exhausted members of SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500, taken near the Memel river by a Heer Panzer Sergeant.



[FONT=arial][SIZE=-1]
Although the Waffen-SS is frequently considered an elite organization not all of its units were actually elite.

True.


Some Waffen-SS units formed after 1943 had less than ideal combat records. This was in part due to the fact that the number of volunteers eligible for service in the Waffen-SS shrank as the war continued while the need for replacements increased. The number of conscripts taken into the Waffen-SS of lesser quality or questionable ability had a direct impact on combat effectiveness.

Not true. As with any large military organisation, some units were more effective than others but you can't really attribute this to whether recruits happen to be volunteers or conscripts. There were plenty of late-war Waffen-SS units with formidable combat records, many of whose members were conscripts.


After WWII ended the Waffen-SS was condemned at the Nurnberg Trials as a criminal organization. This was in part due to a series of high profile atrocities and because of their connection to the SS and NSDAP.

True.


Only those who were conscripted into the Waffen-SS were exempt from the Nurnberg declaration.

Not true, as such. The Waffen-SS was condemned as a criminal organisation but no member of the Waffen-SS was deemed to be a criminal unless he had committed criminal acts. This also applied to men from the old pre- and early war SS-VT, as well as the SS-TK.


As a result Waffen-SS veterans were generally denied the rights and benefits granted to other WWII German veterans.

True, hence the establishment of the HIAG, amongst other aid groups for veterans.


Waffen-SS prisoners of war were often held in strict confinement and were treated harshly by the Soviets.

Not just by the Soviets. Members of the Leibstandarte, in particular of Kampfgruppe Peiper, were tortured by US military personnel into confessing to the Malmédy atrocity. Waffen-SS men were also ill-treated and sometimes summarily executed by Western Allied personnel.


Many foreign volunteers that served in the Waffen-SS were also treated severely by their national governments.



True. Amongst the more distasteful examples of this was the treatment of volunteers for the struggle against Bolshevism, like Eric Brørup, by the Danish authorities after the war, despite the fact that it was not only legal for Danish nationals to serve in the German armed forces but the Danish King specifically gave his blessing to Danes who wished to enlist in the Wehrmacht and the Waffen-SS.



A former cavalry officer in the Danish Arrmy, Eric Brørup served in a number of Waffen-SS units, including the Florian Geyer Cavalry Division and the SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl, where he was posted to the Field Training Company. He is seen above in this photo, taken in the autumn of 1944 in Hungary. He ended the war with the Reconnaissance Detachment of the Wiking Division and spent two and a half years as a POW of the Americans and the British. Sentenced afterwards to a further two-and-a-half years by a Danish court, Brørup was fortunate in having his sentence reduced to time already served and he was released after eight months. Other Danes were not as lucky. Brørup served with the Canadian Army Reserve in the Alberta Dragoons in 1959/1960, earning his Army Pilot Wings and was later a cadet officer. He is still alive.



In another famous SS-Fallschirmjäger image, of the Battalion CP at Drvar on 25.5.1944, moments before a partisan mortar round struck, killing the man wearing the glasses, we see Heinz Jamin writing in the signals log, watched in the background by Gunnar Baardseth, a Norwegian volunteer. Jamin survived, as did Baardseth, although the latter was later killed in action. Jamin is still alive. Baardseth was one of the B-Schützen or Bewährungs-Schützen, disciplinary cases on probation, offered the chance of rehabilitation on the battlefield, who formed a large proportion of the initial intake of the SS Parachute Battalion. In other photos I have of him, his blank probationer collar patches are visible.


In the years since WWII there have been attempts to rehabilitate the image and legality of Waffen-SS veterans, both through legislation and in published works by former officers like Paul Hausser (Soldaten wie andere auch - Soldiers Like Any Other).

Soldaten wie andere auch was a quote from a speech by West German leader Konrad Adenauer in 1953. Adenauer had every reason to despise Nazism, having been in a concentration camp, but he made a point of exculpating ordinary Waffen-SS officers and men who had served their country - and the cause of Western Civilisation - honourably.


To this day the stigma on veterans from the Waffen-SS remains.

Less so. As time passes and the grip of the Thought Police slackens - except in Germany itself, of course - more and more people are reconsidering the blanket demonisation of the Waffen-SS. Don't get me wrong! I'm not an apologist for the Hitler regime or anything like that but I have known quite a few Waffen-SS veterans, including foreign volunteers from France, Denmark, Norway and other countries, and most of them signed up not to fight for Nazism but to fight against Bolshevism, which was rightly perceived in the 1930s and 1940s as an aggressively expansionist political philosophy. Reasonably informed people also knew how murderous the Bolsheviks were and tended to take the view in the case of Western strongmen like Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Antonesceu and others that it was a case of fighting fire with fire.


Any pictures on how they were dressed at their trials? Before and afters would be good.

Standard German-issue uniform bereft of insignia and decorations or, in some cases, British and American fatigues.

[Bachelor]

[Bachelor]

[skurken]

Here re some of my Waffen SS Postcards



This is atualy a whery rare pic. of the Danish Friekorps men figthing under Danish flag in SS ranks whit the King of denmark aprowel.

sorry for my bad english

[skurken]

more.....




















Also Danish Friekorps men i action

[Bachelor]

[Bachelor]

[Narvaresearch]

These are very nice photos, but I'm pretty sure many of the owners would not want you to post them. Some of the photos are mine, but I really do not mind much - however I know the owners of some of the other photos and they deffinetly would not like it...:|

[Bachelor]

[Volkssturmsoldat]

I wanted to know from what division he is? I can't recognize his collar tabs... thx (nice pic :))

[G-AWZT]

I wanted to know from what division he is? I can't recognize his collar tabs... thx (nice pic :))


Estonian. You can see the stylized "E" on his collar tab.

[Bachelor]

[skurken]

Dannish Frikorps men marching



Officer in action



More action



A break in fitghing
[/URL][URL="http://www.frikorps-danmark.dk/images/Postkort1.jpg"] (http://www.frikorps-danmark.dk/images/Postkort2.jpg)

[Bachelor]

Historical military games.....













It's little old style....

[simple jumper]

Stop posting re-enactment or "historical war games" pics, although they are well done. There's a separate thread for these pictures.

[Bachelor]

Stop posting re-enactment or "historical war games" pics, although they are well done. There's a separate thread for these pictures.

[maxmin todt]

Agree, I do not think pictures of re-actors belong under a historical thread like this! Please stop posting them here!:bash:

[HOLLiS]

Agree, I do not think pictures of re-actors belong under a historical thread like this! Please stop posting them here!:bash:


Before you start running around acting like a big dog, get use to the forum and the members. Also using this " :bash: " does not look good for you.

[Bruisercruiser]

Makes me laugh to see well-fed reenactors!

[Bachelor]

Karelia... Russia...


......................

[Mousepad]

Before you start running around acting like a big dog, get use to the forum and the members. Also using this " :bash: " does not look good for you.

Can we post reenactors pics, coz there is few events here and there on WWII, with pretty much high level of hmmm, reenactment, or post it in other treads, please advice? I'm asking, coz few people visit "Reenactment and Airsoft", and people who interested in WSS troops, usually watch this tread... methinks.

[Bachelor]

Can we post reenactors pics, coz there is few events here and there on WWII, with pretty much high level of hmmm, reenactment, or post it in other treads, please advice? I'm asking, coz few people visit "Reenactment and Airsoft", and people who interested in WSS troops, usually watch this tread... methinks.

Yes. Good idea... I thought about it too...

[HOLLiS]

I think it is up to the main contributors in this thread.

If you read the first post, reeneactors are in it.

I am fine with that. Probably it would make things work better if the source is posted. Such as original and reenactors.


The only warning or what one should not do, is to glorify the SS.

[Bachelor]

A break in fitghing


I know this photo.... Regiment "Germania"....

[Bachelor]

One more with champagne....

[Walter Sobchak]

These are very nice photos, but I'm pretty sure many of the owners would not want you to post them. Some of the photos are mine, but I really do not mind much - however I know the owners of some of the other photos and they deffinetly would not like it...:|

I'm curious as to how someone "owns" something that is probably not even subject to copyright laws. Unless they have a release from the original owner or proof that they bought the rights to these photos, then they probably have no recourse.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey, Bachelor has posted so many excellent photos, that he can be forgiven for occasionally posting a "well-fed" reenactor just to keep us on our toes!!

Great photos!!!

[Bachelor]

[Bachelor]

[Rebus]

Stop posting re-enactment or "historical war games" pics, although they are well done. There's a separate thread for these pictures.

I agree with you.
Bechelor post here in "REENACTOR Gallery" your cool photos:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=150175&page=6

[Bachelor]

[Volkssturmsoldat]

A great thanks to Bachelor, who posted uncountable very interesting photos of the Waffen-SS. Hope it will continue ;)

[Eztyga]

Makes me laugh to see well-fed reenactors!

Yeah, I think they need to have a few weeks on the 'eiserne- portion' before they hit the field.

[Bachelor]

[maxmin todt]

Mr. Bachelor! Some of your pic are not "re-actors"! They are fake and do not belong in these tread! Why are you posting all this fake pictures?

[Bachelor]

Mr. Bachelor! Some of your pic are not "re-actors"! They are fake and do not belong in these tread! Why are you posting all this fake pictures?

[Bachelor]

[Bachelor]

[b0sco]

Bachelor is the main contributor to this thread, he can post all the Reenactor photos he wants to. Especially a guy with 2 posts complaining...

-----

[maxmin todt]

He has posted a lot of great pic, and thanks for that. But still this contribution do not make it appropriate to mix reenactor photos with org.period photos like his last post!

Do you understand my argument?

Save the history folks!

[Bachelor]

[maxmin todt]

Thanks Bachelor! Thats the photos we want to see! p-)

[b0sco]

Panther commander.

[b0sco]

[Bachelor]

[Bachelor]

Anyway... Next reenactors photos... I think that photos not bad for this thread. This is "ARCHIV" thread and we can see many different threads from all places of MilF.net forum. Reenactors photos about Waffen SS. We can see weapons, uniform, ammunitions, awards of WSS...
And... We can see first post of the thread....
And... The Chief does not forbid.

I think it is up to the main contributors in this thread.
If you read the first post, reeneactors are in it.
I am fine with that. Probably it would make things work better if the source is posted. Such as original and reenactors.
The only warning or what one should not do, is to glorify the SS.
And my Russian friends agree... For example...

Can we post reenactors pics, coz there is few events here and there on WWII, with pretty much high level of hmmm, reenactment, or post it in other treads, please advice? I'm asking, coz few people visit "Reenactment and Airsoft", and people who interested in WSS troops, usually watch this tread... methinks.
Yes. Good idea... I thought about it too...

Proceed...
There are many ree- oldstylish photos of one of Ru forum.

9. SS/Pz. Gr. Regiment "Germania" (Reenactment)

[AroundTheCorner]

Nice pic's. When I grow up, I wanna become a reenactor. :)

[Bachelor]

The Baltic volunteers in Waffen SS....

[Rebus]

As posted by Bachelor, here some photos (old-effect in Photoshop) of Waffen SS (Ardennes battle theatre):











I hope you like them. :)
The historical group is Normandie44 (Italy) (http://www.normandie44.eu/)

[Bachelor]

Combined Pilots-Observation Badge in Gold with Diamonds
(Flugzeugführer- und Beobachterabzeichen in Gold mit Brillanten)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Pilots-Observation_Badge

Honorary recipients

Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler - July 1942
SS-Sturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny - fall of 1944
SS-Oberstgruppenführer and Generaloberst of the Waffen-SS Sepp Dietrich























And Combined Pilots-Observation Badge for others....

[Rebus]

Which the height of Otto Skorzeny?

[b0sco]

[AroundTheCorner]

hope this is not a repost:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkajXeVLpk4&feature=related

[Ivan1]

I'm searching for the famous photo of captured officers from 17. Division SS being guarded by an American MP in Normandy. Maybe it was already posted, but go through 123 pages...

Does anyone have it? Thanks in advance.

[pkeating]

Combined Pilots-Observation Badge in Gold with Diamonds
(Flugzeugführer- und Beobachterabzeichen in Gold mit Brillanten)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Pilots-Observation_Badge

Honorary recipients

Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler - July 1942
SS-Sturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny - fall of 1944
SS-Oberstgruppenführer and Generaloberst of the Waffen-SS Sepp Dietrich





According to his personnel files, Otto Skorzeny received a "Fliegerabzeichen in Gold" on 1.12.1944. In one biography, based on interviews with Skorzeny and published in the late 1940s, Skorzeny makes a vague reference to receiving a golden badge from Göring. This was probably the Combined Pilot-Observer Badge with Diamonds, which was a personal gift from the Reichsmarschall rather than an official state decoration, but Otto Skorzeny is most unlikely to have even seen the badge pictured, which was probably made years after his death. It is one of a clutch of high end fakes proposed through the US auction site Manion's.

PK
PK

[pkeating]

Here are two well-documented original examples of award pieces, one from the estate of the fighter ace Erich Hartmann, the other from the estate of Hermann Göring himself.

[pkeating]

Now, for those of you who were unable to see the differences, here is a side-by-side comparison of the genuine Hartmann badge with the badge alleged to have been awarded to Skorzeny. The differences are very clear. We can now return to the topic but while photos of reenactors seem to be tolerated amongst rare original images on this website (which is astonishing), I don't think we have to tolerate fake insignia being presented as the real thing, do we? I don't see any dealers' advertising on this website. LOL!

PK

[Bachelor]

Now, for those of you who were unable to see the differences, here is a side-by-side comparison of the genuine Hartmann badge with the badge alleged to have been awarded to Skorzeny. The differences are very clear. We can now return to the topic but while photos of reenactors seem to be tolerated amongst rare original images on this website (which is astonishing), I don't think we have to tolerate fake insignia being presented as the real thing, do we? I don't see any dealers' advertising on this website. LOL!

PK

I don't see differences..... Your photos very small, as stamps. If you see something or you is expert let's describe differences in detail for us.... It will be interesting!
Why you have named this badge as not genuine? What signs not originality? Have you HQ photo of genuine badge as HQ photos "not genuine" in my post for comparison?

[forty-two]

Waffen SS Men capture a young russian soldier


Brigadeführer Heinz Harmel (Standartenführer at that time) after two of his men received the Knight's Cross

A few snipers...








By the way, thanks for keeping this thread alive bachelor :)

[pkeating]

I don't see differences..... Your photos very small, as stamps. If you see something or you is expert let's describe differences in detail for us.... It will be interesting!
Why you have named this badge as not genuine? What signs not originality? Have you HQ photo of genuine badge as HQ photos "not genuine" in my post for comparison?

You must click or double-click on the thumbnails to see bigger images. You will then see the differences. I don't understand "HQ". However, even I can see the differences in the thumbnails. I have shown two genuine badges, one awarded to Hartmann and the other from Göring himself. I think it really is up to you to explain why you think the "Otto Skorzeny" PO + Diamonds badge is genuine. This discussion has already taken place on some quite serious militaria forums. This is not a militaria forum. This is a photography forum. People come here to look at photographs, not to read discussions about fake badges.

Best wishes,

PK

[pkeating]

OK, on second thoughts, since you can't see the difference between the genuine badges that belonged to Hermann Göring and Erich Hartmann, here is a photograph of Hans-Ulrich Rudel's badge. It was taken in the late 1970s when in the possession of the London pornster Paul Raymond. You cannot see much detail but look at the external contours of the badge.

PK

[pkeating]

The alleged "Skorzeny" badge.


The genuine Rudel badge.

See the differences?

[pkeating]

The alleged Otto Skorzeny badge, which is clearly very different to the genuine badge from Hermann Göring's estate.



A genuine Das Gemeinsamesflugzeugführer und Beobacher-Abzeichen in Gold mit Brillanten awarded by Göring to Hugo Sperrle.



This example is one of several award pieces owned and worn by Reichsmarschall Göring. It is clearly the same as the Sperrle badge but, like the Sperrle badge, quite different to the so-called Skorzeny badge.



The award document offered with the fake Skorzeny badge through the American auction house Manion's with a reserve of $54,000.00 back in 2004. The badge is currently offered by another auction house - http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6188205 - with a starting bid of $60,000.00. The award document or urkunde given to Benito Mussolini in 1937 describes the badge as Das Goldene Flugzeugführer und Beobachter-Abzeichen.

Some students suggest that there was a variation of the ordinary Das Gemeinsamesflugzeugführer und Beobacher-Abzeichen but this is unlikely. No such badge has ever been observed by collectors and Mussolini certainly received the badge with diamonds. Apart from anything else, the document pictured above is for a normal Pilot-Observer Badge awarded on an honorary basis.

Anyway, Bachelor, I am not an "expert" but I hope that you understand that I know about this badge, amongst other high end rarities, and that I have handled three original examples and that the "Skorzeny" badge is well-made but simply not an original, pre-1945 award piece. Nor is it like the «IMIT» dress copies of the period.

Anyway, back to photographs.

Regards,

PK

[pkeating]

Some wartime images of real SS-V and Waffen-SS soldiers...



This is for those of us who remember the price so many of these young men who defended Western Europe and Western European values paid. Hans Carlson served with SS-Fallschirmjäger-Btl 500 and 600 and was fatally wounded in the Ardennes early in 1945. He was recruited into the SS-FJ-Btl as a disciplinary case (Bewährungs-Schütze) in September 1944.



A photograph of Hans Carlson's grave in 1945, taken by the neuro-surgeon who tried to save his life in the military hospital - Feldlazarett 670 (Mot) - in Slovakia and sent to Hans Carlson's father, together with the negative of the photograph. The family also kept Hans Carlson's letters home from Chlum, where 1. SS-Fallschirmjäger-Ers-Kp/Waffen-SS-Bewährungs-Abteilung was based.

Hans Carlson's grave today.



It's all very well posting photographs of reenactors and photographs found on the internet but very few people here seem to know much about the history behind many of these images. That's OK. A great image often speaks for itself. I hope that our little deviation off-topic was educational for some of you and I hope that some of you look at the images in this thread and wonder who the people in them were and what they were like. Like many young people throughout history, they fought and died for ideals that seemed noble or at least reasonable to them.

Skorzeny was a notorious self-publicist but he was also a very brave man, a commander who was prepared to put himself in danger. He himself hardly referred at all to the badge Göring gave him, which indicates his contempt for Fat Hermann and most of the Berlin courtiers and yes-men surrounding Hitler. The fake badge posted by our Russian friend is interesting in itself, in the same way that the reenactor images he deems as valid as original wartime images are interesting: one could subject them to extensive scrutiny and criticism. To begin with, most of the people in these images are very unsoldierly and some of the outfits they are wearing are quite questionable. In the end, however, it is more useful to study and discuss original photographs and, where relevant, original awards, insignia and documents.

However, this is just my opinion.

Regards,

PK

[Bachelor]

The alleged Otto Skorzeny badge, which is clearly very different to the genuine badge from Hermann Göring's estate.
A genuine Das Gemeinsamesflugzeugführer und Beobacher-Abzeichen in Gold mit Brillanten awarded by Göring to Hugo Sperrle.
This example is one of several award pieces owned and worn by Reichsmarschall Göring. It is clearly the same as the Sperrle badge but, like the Sperrle badge, quite different to the so-called Skorzeny badge.
The badge was also described in some period documents as Das Goldene Flugzeugführer und Beobachter-Abzeichen. This explains the entry in Otto Skorzeny's SS personnel files, as shown above.
The award document offered with the fake Skorzeny badge through the American auction house Manion's with a reserve of $54,000.00 back in 2004. The badge is currently offered by another auction house - http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6188205 - with a starting bid of $60,000.00. The award document or urkunde given to Benito Mussolini in 1937 describes the badge as Das Goldene Flugzeugführer und Beobachter-Abzeichen.
Some students suggest that there was a variation of the ordinary Das Gemeinsamesflugzeugführer und Beobacher-Abzeichen but this is unlikely. No such badge has ever been observed by collectors and Mussolini certainly received the badge with diamonds. Apart from anything else, the document pictured above is for a normal Pilot-Observer Badge awarded on an honorary basis.
Anyway, Bachelor, I am not an "expert" but I hope that you understand that I know about this badge, amongst other high end rarities, and that I have handled three original examples and that the "Skorzeny" badge is well-made but simply not an original, pre-1945 award piece. Nor is it like the «IMIT» dress copies of the period.
Anyway, back to photographs.
Regards,
PK

Yes... I see.... Really... I'm not expert and it is new for me. Interesting info! Thanks!

[Bachelor]

[Bachelor]

[saturnin]

interesting thread, keep posting those rare photos

i poste this just for fun, it´s related to topic just in different way (sorry if repost)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3JKcExmQlA

will delete this post if asked

[tolduso]

Estonian. You can see the stylized "E" on his collar tab.


20th division. unofficial patch.

[Marsmann]

Annual midnight swearing-in of SS recruits, w. group in fore bearing swastika banners & uniformed mass in rear standing in Nazi flag-draped square.Feldherrnhall, Germany, 1938



Hugo Bruckmann's funeral. Munich, Germany, 1941

[Marsmann]

Celebration of Hitler's birthday at Westwall, April 20, 1940

[Bachelor]

[Rebus]

Excellent reenactor photo, unique thing, his sidecap should be lower on the right side, but maybe it's done to show his hair-cut.

[Bachelor]

Photoshop old style's photos (reenactor)...















My work in PS....

[Bachelor]

Gh photo + PS...

[Bachelor]

[IronFinn]

Bachelor, you really have tons of pictures here (wow). Have you just been collecting these here and there or did you get then from somewhere in a bulk?

[Bachelor]

[Bachelor]

[Bachelor]

Bachelor, you really have tons of pictures here (wow). Have you just been collecting these here and there or did you get then from somewhere in a bulk?
This question ask to me all time. I wrote about it before in the tread. Just look tread...
If short - from everywhere...

[Bachelor]

[IronFinn]

This question ask to me all time. I wrote about it before in the tread. Just look tread...
If short - from everywhere...


Ok thanks, thats what I thought. Was being lazy with the question ;).

[maxmin todt]

Great pictures! Thanks for sharing!

[Bachelor]

[Bachelor]

ree...

[Bachelor]

[Mousepad]

Any info on this pic?



Soviet Lt don't look captured, and Germans don't look surrendered too.

[beNder]

Any info on this pic?



Soviet Lt don't look captured, and Germans don't look surrendered too.

Meeting in Poland 1939 perhaps, just an guess.

[Mousepad]

Meeting in Poland 1939 perhaps, just an guess.

Definately not, shoulder boards were returned in use by Red Army only in 1943

[Switek]

Where, who and why?



(I know the answer)

[Bachelor]

Any info on this pic?
Soviet Lt don't look captured, and Germans don't look surrendered too.


Meeting in Poland 1939 perhaps, just an guess.

Thanks for your question....
Next... Yeh... Though you have not asked.. You have wrote your conclusion, just an guess.... It is a pity...

Yes.... Certainly... I have information about this photos. You are right only in one that this fact was on Polish territory (This is a gift from Soviet Union to Poland, as a lot of other German territory after 1945). The German place was named before 1945 - Frische Nehrung. On this photos, We can see capitulation of German units to Soviet Army on May, 9th 1945 in Ostpreußen. There were various German units from Waffen SS, Infantry, Artillery, Tank, Grenadiers...., German..., Baltic..., with arms, weapons, tanks and vehicles....
"...Germans don't look surrendered too..." He-he..he!!! The Soviet Army was not animals even to the enemy as say lies some... Many military men smile. End of War!!! They have survived!!!
Michael Savin (1915 - 2006) has photographed and the eyewitness this Historic fact .

I think You will not use these photos for the Members's of club "We Hate Russia" fairy tale about Soviet and German "brotherhood" against Poland as usually doing some liars...
Thanks.

[nemowork]

Nice photo collection, i knew i should come down here more often.

[Bachelor]

+

[ramthor]

Where, who and why?



(I know the answer)

Aside from the sturmbannfuhrer, I recognize wehrmacht police insignia
on the officer to the right. No idea about the middle two.

[Bachelor]

[Switek]

Aside from the sturmbannfuhrer, I recognize wehrmacht police insignia
on the officer to the right. No idea about the middle two.
Polish Police senior officers.

[Britboy]

Okay, question for all you military history buffs. What role did the Waffen SS actually fulfil in the whole German ORBAT?

I mean, it seems to be a 'second Army', but without the distinct roles second armies usually have - i.e. look at USMC, French Foreign Legion - rapid deployment forces for intervention overseas. Russian VV MVD - internal troops to subdue unrest. Why the Waffen SS then, what did they do that the German Army could not?

I know they initally started out as bodyguards but the whole Waffen SS did not have that role, I know they did some fvcked up things on the Eastern Front in particular and I'm sure inside Germany itself but I think this was the SS and not the Waffen SS. I understand that they seem to be a second Army but I do not know why?

Is it to do with having a second, more politically-reliable armed force to threaten the German Armed Forces with, if they went against Hitler?

Is it to do with the Hitlerist ideologies and the fanaticism?

If so, surely this is a weakness really. Germany not producing enough armoured vehicles compared to the Allies, so where do they send some? To an ideologically-motivated fanatic second Army? Why not to the Army proper, who will take a realistic assessment of situations and not be so reckless in action?

[thejoker]

Okay, question for all you military history buffs. What role did the Waffen SS actually fulfil in the whole German ORBAT?

I mean, it seems to be a 'second Army', but without the distinct roles second armies usually have - i.e. look at USMC, French Foreign Legion - rapid deployment forces for intervention overseas. Russian VV MVD - internal troops to subdue unrest. Why the Waffen SS then, what did they do that the German Army could not?

I know they initally started out as bodyguards but the whole Waffen SS did not have that role, I know they did some fvcked up things on the Eastern Front in particular and I'm sure inside Germany itself but I think this was the SS and not the Waffen SS. I understand that they seem to be a second Army but I do not know why?

Is it to do with having a second, more politically-reliable armed force to threaten the German Armed Forces with, if they went against Hitler?

Is it to do with the Hitlerist ideologies and the fanaticism?

If so, surely this is a weakness really. Germany not producing enough armoured vehicles compared to the Allies, so where do they send some? To an ideologically-motivated fanatic second Army? Why not to the Army proper, who will take a realistic assessment of situations and not be so reckless in action?

I think that you need to educate yourself and go to "wiki" they have a good explanation of the different roles and functions that they had, all in a nut shell , no joke!

[thejoker]

well, well, it seems that he just stepped out of the dry cleaners , not a speck of dust, so common with this pictures,as well as not a day of worry in those faces , they just came from a stroll with the wifie, just around the corner. hah!, hah, hah! the joker

[Jarhead]

Yeah, right. The Generalmajor was not able to write proper German....:roll:
That thing was probably made in backyard, somwhere in east Europe.

[Bachelor]

[LONGSHANKS2966]

I've just joined this site and had to pass comment on some of the thoughts on this thread on the Waffen SS and their prowess on the field.
I agree, in some areas a fine section of the German army. I agree in some case's a force feared by the allies for the mindless tenacity to resist. But this is a feature that could be achieved in any society given enough time to indoctrinate successfully a superiority complex that led to the extensive atrocities.
In some ways we can see this today with the torture problems in the war on terror, in a mild way. The acceptance of methods to meet the intended goal of the state. I'm not saying it's right or wrong in the case of the torture issue at present in the news, but what it does do; is lower the combatants ability to maintain the moral high ground. This above all is paramount in the successful conclusion of any conflict.
I myself come from the UK, and we too are not innocent in methods beyond the norm, but in the case of the Waffen SS it was a national and governmental plan for extermination of the enemy, and their categorization as sub human that led to the final reputation of the SS - a free hand to do what ever you want in the bestial forms documented - Oradour Sur Glane is a good one.
I am too puzzled at the level of obsession of the SS in their position as an elite. It is true their image was that of the Teutonic nights, defending the boarders of Christendom. But in truth, they were just a better fed and equipped outfit. If this level of care and supply was maintained throughout the German army, as in the Panzer Lehr and Grossdeutschland, the Waffen SS wouldn't have stood out any more than those elite divisions. On the whole the German army was a professional army, not unlike other European ones in history. Infused with political and national zeal, just like the armies of Napoleon.
An example of this is the German reports on the conflict at Arnhem. Bittrich said, of all the forces his SS division had fought the paratroopers were the toughest and hardest to beat. That saying something having come from the Eastern Front, a few weeks before to rest and refit. This is due to the fact that they faced an equaly well trained force, (not as well equiped though as they were airbourne troops), and would probably have said the same facing off an equaly well equipped American force like the Rangers.
I have sat for many hours with many of the combatants of both the Waffen SS, Heer, British and American forces; even survivors of Stalingrad. It's interesting when you hear it from the "horse's mouth" as you might say.
Anyway, I'll leave it there as I'm bound to raise some responses from my few lines.

[ramthor]

I've just joined this site and had to pass comment on some of the thoughts on this thread on the Waffen SS

Welcome to MilPics.

You raise some interesting views however this isn't really the proper venue for them.
This is actually a photo and video thread, with comments related to images only.
You'll find your topic discussed in...

Military History and Tactics (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7) and ...

General Discussion (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=5) .

Personal political views are off-topic in pics threads. Thanks.

[LONGSHANKS2966]

My apologies, but throughout the complete thread there are numerous comments and statements and I was just passing mine in response to them and in some way compliment the photos. I mean posting them in someway leads one to feel the honoring of them is in action too, without saying anything in text. I was in particular answering some of the comment on the very first pages etc, but as I said they are throughout.

[Bachelor]

Thanks for your question....
Next... Yeh... Though you have not asked.. You have wrote your conclusion, just an guess.... It is a pity...

Yes.... Certainly... I have information about this photos. You are right only in one that this fact was on Polish territory (This is a gift from Soviet Union to Poland, as a lot of other German territory after 1945). The German place was named before 1945 - Frische Nehrung. On this photos, We can see capitulation of German units to Soviet Army on May, 9th 1945 in Ostpreußen. There were various German units from Waffen SS, Infantry, Artillery, Tank, Grenadiers...., German..., Baltic..., with arms, weapons, tanks and vehicles....
"...Germans don't look surrendered too..." He-he..he!!! The Soviet Army was not animals even to the enemy as say lies some... Many military men smile. End of War!!! They have survived!!!
Michael Savin (1915 - 2006) has photographed and the eyewitness this Historic fact .

I think You will not use these photos for the Members's of club "We Hate Russia" fairy tale about Soviet and German "brotherhood" against Poland as usually doing some liars...
Thanks.


I wish to finish an interesting series of photos about capitulation of German army-group in Frische Nehrung to the Soviet Army in May 1945. General-lieutenant Fokanov the Soviet side accepted capitulation from general Hohbaum the German side...

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9706/21736306.jpg

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/8338/90876291.jpg

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2658/78638614.jpg

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4738/34203397.jpg

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7011/45980123.jpg

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6584/73895307.jpg

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7341/28155951.jpg

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/6508/22491598.jpg

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3977/93292921.jpg

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4264/77818009.jpg - Soviet soldiers celebrate The Victory.

[Bachelor]

[LONGSHANKS2966]

Very interesting pics of the surrender. Smiling faces or not, I can't imagine though that many of them survived captivity. I think they would have preferred to have surrendered to western allies. I think here lies the sympathy that we all have for such a professional fighting force the Germans fielded during the war. I have only ever sat with one who did survive Russian captivity, and he told me that SS runes were in many case's a death sentence. He spent his 7 years in the Ukraine, and home in 53 in the general release of the majority of german POW's after Stalin's death.

[Bachelor]

Very interesting pics of the surrender. Smiling faces or not, I can't imagine though that many of them survived captivity. I think they would have preferred to have surrendered to western allies. I think here lies the sympathy that we all have for such a professional fighting force the Germans fielded during the war. I have only ever sat with one who did survive Russian captivity, and he told me that SS runes were in many case's a death sentence. He spent his 7 years in the Ukraine, and home in 53 in the general release of the majority of german POW's after Stalin's death.

When I read similar reasoning I'm surprised.... German soldiers "survived" in Stalin's captivity..... Wow! Let's cry! We know as Russian soldiers survived in Nazi concentration camps.... They have not returned, but German have returned... For example You has written about one of more in your post... It's "real" Stalin's death. I think not reasonably to speak about that that German soldiers preferred the death, or the Soviet captivity, or Western allies captivity... I can tell that the Stalin's scarecrow for to frighten it is Western propagation and lie (like old Goebbels's propagation).
But all this for another thread.....

About photos... Please... Don't invent and haven't fantasy. Just describe photos... I can... Look at photos. This is the peace. Stop the war.... People on the photos have survived. German and Russian soldiers don't fight... They don't need in war... They don't aggressive. May be some want war but we don't see this people on that photos... We don't see Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler or Stalin... But we see people who don't need the war..... They smiling... I don't see the weapon "in face"! Look! They haven't weapon in hands in both sides.....
And the most important thing... In photos. We see people and this people have nothing to divide... They have ALL - Life and Peace...

[Bachelor]

[Bachelor]

[Breerman]

Great thread to go through with many excellent pictures. But sorry to see people polluting it with reenactment photos and stupid comments.

This one in better quality or other ss cavalry pics?

[Bachelor]

[Walter Sobchak]

Thanks again for posting the photos, Bachelor!!!

It's easy to separate the re-enactors from the real soldiers. Just look for the well-fed, unstressed, shaved, rested guys in new XXXXL smocks with pristine web gear.

[Bachelor]

More :

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=4174154&postcount=206

[thejoker]

When I read similar reasoning I'm surprised.... German soldiers "survived" in Stalin's captivity..... Wow! Let's cry! We know as Russian soldiers survived in Nazi concentration camps.... They have not returned, but German have returned... For example You has written about one of more in your post... It's "real" Stalin's death. I think not reasonably to speak about that that German soldiers preferred the death, or the Soviet captivity, or Western allies captivity... I can tell that the Stalin's scarecrow for to frighten it is Western propagation and lie (like old Goebbels's propagation).
But all this for another thread.....

About photos... Please... Don't invent and haven't fantasy. Just describe photos... I can... Look at photos. This is the peace. Stop the war.... People on the photos have survived. German and Russian soldiers don't fight... They don't need in war... They don't aggressive. May be some want war but we don't see this people on that photos... We don't see Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler or Stalin... But we see people who don't need the war..... They smiling... I don't see the weapon "in face"! Look! They haven't weapon in hands in both sides.....
And the most important thing... In photos. We see people and this people have nothing to divide... They have ALL - Life and Peace...

way to go , is good to see that you think this way, show the war mongers that alternative realities to the war existed, they want a war but won't join the army and "GET SOME" they're part of the "PSEUDO KEYBOARD COMMANDO GENERATION" that command thru the interned by themselves . keep the good photos coming , bachelorinsky terrusky! cheerio!

[PeterG]

I wonder if the other reenactors get mad at the fatties, who make them all look ridiculous on photos.. I never notice the finer details of their uniforms or other kit, only how utterly un-soldierly many of them look.. I have to say i don't quite get the 'reenactment' bit either, to be honest.

I just read a book about the encirclement at Korsun ( Cherkassy ), where SS and other units, and the russians, fought in horrible conditions - both sides suffering terribly from the winter conditions, mud, lack of food and rest, disease, and murderous losses.

How do you 'reenact' what men on both sides went through? I don't get it.
Anyway - cool pics!

[thejoker]

I wonder if the other reenactors get mad at the fatties, who make them all look ridiculous on photos.. I never notice the finer details of their uniforms or other kit, only how utterly un-soldierly many of them look.. I have to say i don't quite get the 'reenactment' bit either, to be honest.

I just read a book about the encirclement at Korsun ( Cherkassy ), where SS and other units, and the russians, fought in horrible conditions - both sides suffering terribly from the winter conditions, mud, lack of food and rest, disease, and murderous losses.

How do you 'reenact' what men on both sides went through? I don't get it.
Anyway - cool pics!

you just can't do that! many of the very healthy people that take the time to do the reenactments fulfill their inner nazi in this form, the realization of a dream, like me a play with a real barbie doll, only flesh and bone and lots of fun, oh by the way I'm no ken de doll , but I still get barbie, oh! no reenactment ! the real mccoy!--.

[sp2c]

I think they do it to preserve history (and maybe have a little fun) rather then to fullfill their inner nazi ...

and no I don't think they get mad at the fatties, this is all done in free time paid from their own pockets ... the more the merrier I suppose

[Bachelor]

I wonder if the other reenactors get mad at the fatties, who make them all look ridiculous on photos.. I never notice the finer details of their uniforms or other kit, only how utterly un-soldierly many of them look.. I have to say i don't quite get the 'reenactment' bit either, to be honest.
I just read a book about the encirclement at Korsun ( Cherkassy ), where SS and other units, and the russians, fought in horrible conditions - both sides suffering terribly from the winter conditions, mud, lack of food and rest, disease, and murderous losses.
How do you 'reenact' what men on both sides went through? I don't get it.
Anyway - cool pics!


you just can't do that! many of the very healthy people that take the time to do the reenactments fulfill their inner nazi in this form, the realization of a dream, like me a play with a real barbie doll, only flesh and bone and lots of fun, oh by the way I'm no ken de doll , but I still get barbie, oh! no reenactment ! the real mccoy!--.

Not be very serious and critical. Look at a link: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=150175&page=14

These are legal historical games and not the fan Nazi's clubs.
I answered similar opinion:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=4114694&postcount=150

Some Big Boss like:
http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/3622/04111935zh5.jpg
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/8546/0002beyk.jpg
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=3494175&postcount=1556

I agree with:


I think they do it to preserve history (and maybe have a little fun) rather then to fullfill their inner nazi ...
and no I don't think they get mad at the fatties, this is all done in free time paid from their own pockets ... the more the merrier I suppose

PS. Look at Ree gal - you can see REALLY FAT guys..... It's funny (if we represent history) but there are people with own health problems....

[Bachelor]

Cemetery of 5th SS Panzer Division Wiking.
Lugansk area, Uspenka village, SU, 1942.





Link (not WSS):
http://ifun.ru/view/74110

[Mousepad]

Cemetery of 5th SS Panzer Division Wiking.
Lugansk area, Uspenka village, SU, 1942.



Damn, You quite a search engine :hug:

[marius72za]

What happend to the German wargraves in Russia after the war?

[beNder]

Interesting. Are these graves still visible? Were they destroyed after the areas were recaptured?

[Bachelor]

What happend to the German wargraves in Russia after the war?

German cemeteries have been destroyed right after war... Russian people had a stereotype that if the German it means Nazi - Fascist, but the opinion of people changed year by year... After war... Khruschev had negotiations with the German chancellor and all German POW have come back to home to 1957 under the friendship treaty. The relation between people rose to warm attitude. The Soviet government has allowed to relatives take back bodies of German soldiers to Germany.... Many German cemeteries are reconstructed and restored... For example on reconstruction of 97 German cemeteries now. It is the official information of Russian Association "Military memorials" with assistance of the Ministry of Defence of Russia on 2002. I have not found today's information so quickly. The Association has the information about 2000 German Military burial places, about 300 Italian, about 500 Hungarian and 6 Finnish. All information is transferred to the Governments of Germany, Italy, Hungary...
I have looked Google and have found photos of the few German cemeteries in RU Net...

Link:
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/1874914
http://www.rense.com/general3/bww.htm

Near Sologybovka, Saint Petersburg region.






Next of more:

Korostyn, Novgorod region... Near Russian Church....

http://www.biz.msk.ru/album/rustowns/071020kor/Page.html








In Ukraine.....




And so interesting....
I have found many photos of German war graves of the WWI in Belarus.
Links:
http://globus.tut.by/type_tn_graves_nem.htm
http://globus.tut.by/type_tn_graves_nem_2.htm
http://globus.tut.by/type_tn_graves_nem_3.htm
http://globus.tut.by/type_tn_graves_nem_4.htm
http://globus.tut.by/type_tn_graves_nem_5.htm
http://globus.tut.by/type_tn_graves_nem_6.htm
.

[Bachelor]

Interesting. Are these graves still visible? Were they destroyed after the areas were recaptured?
When the Soviet Army has liberated this territory from aggressors that this cemetery has been destroyed....
People have levelled tombs with the ground... Bodies did not dig out and did not destroy.... First, it is the Sin. And it is a lot of problems with illness...

[forty-two]

Thanks for posting the cemetary pictures, bachelor. They were very moving. I would've never thought that such places exist in russia.

The pic below is a bit off topic, but i think it is worth posting. It shows a russian and a german soldier of a different generation working on some war graves together.

[beNder]

When the Soviet Army has liberated this territory from aggressors that this cemetery has been destroyed....
People have levelled tombs with the ground... Bodies did not dig out and did not destroy.... First, it is the Sin. And it is a lot of problems with illness...

Thank you Bachelor, I understand that the bodies were not unearthed but just tombstones destroyed. Seems civil enough seeing what the Germans did to your country.

Thanks for the many fine pics that you contribute to this thread.


Regards

[Bachelor]

Thank you Bachelor, I understand that the bodies were not unearthed but just tombstones destroyed. Seems civil enough seeing what the Germans did to your country.
Thanks for the many fine pics that you contribute to this thread.
Regards

German soldiers hard fought in Soviet Union and have destroyed a lot of... And the Soviet Army hard fought in Germany and has destroyed a lot of... We had one problem it is Totalitarianism. Both people have carried out many similar difficulties and a lot of grief and tears....

[Bachelor]

[RightWhite]

Not about Waffen ss but there is a large collection of authentic photos and movies about Croatian Axis units and such...
There are even some photos of Croatian 7. SS-Freiwilligen-Gebirgs-Division „Prinz Eugen“ and Kroatische 1# SS...
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=158673

Might interest some of you, some rather interesting photos and few never seen before....cheers


As for this thread, really interesting pictures, well done!

[Bachelor]

Some of German soldiers remained in Russia forever.














and......

[Bachelor]

SS-Panzergrenadier-Division „Totenkopf“...

[Narvaresearch]

SS-Panzergrenadier-Division „Totenkopf“...


Not all the people in the picture are Panzergrenadier-Division "Totenkopf". There are also many Heer. Looks like some sort of Abteilung of troops. I think the shoulder boards indicate "328", but I'm not sure. If I'm not mistaken that would mean Infanterie-Regiment 328, which is the 227.Infanterie-Division. That division fought in northern Russia and was destroyed in March of 1945 in north-eastern Germany. Totenkopf never fought in those regions, so I have no idea. :|

[Cap. Modena]

Really nice pics!

thanks

[Mousepad]

Not all the people in the picture are Panzergrenadier-Division "Totenkopf". There are also many Heer. Looks like some sort of Abteilung of troops. I think the shoulder boards indicate "328", but I'm not sure. If I'm not mistaken that would mean Infanterie-Regiment 328, which is the 227.Infanterie-Division. That division fought in northern Russia and was destroyed in March of 1945 in north-eastern Germany. Totenkopf never fought in those regions, so I have no idea. :|

It looks more like 228 reg to me

[Narvaresearch]

It looks more like 228 reg to me

Yeah my eyes could be faulty. Even though my eyes tell me 328, I'm more certain it's not considering what division it was a part of.

[Bachelor]

SS-Panzergrenadier-Division „Totenkopf“...












1.
Original description in the Federal Archive:
Title: Ostfront, Waffen-SS-Angehörige bei Rast
Extra information: Sowjetunion-Süd, Rumänien.- Soldaten der 3. SS Panzer-Division "Totenkopf" bei Rast neben einem zerstörten sowjetischen Panzer T-34.

2.
Original description in the Federal Archive:
Title: Angehörige der SS-Totenkopf-Division
Description: SS-Totenkopf-Division
Küstenschutz 1.6.-7(?)6.1940; S-Art.Abt./SS-T.Div.

3.
Original description in the Federal Archive:
Title: Ostfront, Waffen-SS-Angehörige, Offizier
Extra information: Sowjetunion-Süd, Rumänien.- Untersturmführer der 3. SS-Panzer-Division "Totenkopf" und Oberleutnant des 228. Infanterie-Regiments (IR 228) bei Besprechung vor zerstörtem sowjetischen Panzer T-34.

4.
Original description in the Federal Archive:
Title: Ostfront, Waffen-SS-Angehörige bei Rast
Extra information: Sowjetunion-Süd, Rumänien.- Soldaten der 3. SS-Panzer-Division "Totenkopf" bei Rast und Essenspause neben einem zerstörten sowjetischen Panzer T-34 (Gefechtsstand).

5.
Original description in the Federal Archive:
Title: Frankreich, Eiserne Kreuze für Angehörige der Waffen-SS
Extra information: Westfeldzug 1940, EK-Verleihung an Soldaten der Waffen-SS-Totenkopf-Division, am 30.5.1940 an Angehörige des SS-Totenkopf Artillerie in Bailleul.

[Bachelor]

SS-Panzergrenadier-Division „Totenkopf“...

[Bachelor]

[Marsmann]

Some private photos:

[DID]

As a fervent of propaganda and recruiting posters from the first part of 20th century I bring a small contribution to this thread, hope not repost.

[derzwerge]

oh yeah sure,is like russia paying the crimes agains jews,the not well known "pogroms",or the 13 millions ucranians killed by russian before WWII.
or the indians-******s-iraquies-afghans-french civilians during WWII that the yanks killed since 1914 and nevr payed for it.
or the millions of africans the british empire killed in the colonies.
tell me for more on info,
lets see,the war was declared cos germany invaded poland...but the allies never declared the war against russia...once germany defeated...they were the enemies.
such hypocrisy is disgusting
chears to all that are here just to watch the pics,for this thread is really about

[beNder]

oh yeah sure,is like russia paying the crimes agains jews,the not well known "pogroms",or the 13 millions ucranians killed by russian before WWII.
or the indians-******s-iraquies-afghans-french civilians during WWII that the yanks killed since 1914 and nevr payed for it.
or the millions of africans the british empire killed in the colonies.
tell me for more on info,
lets see,the war was declared cos germany invaded poland...but the allies never declared the war against russia...once germany defeated...they were the enemies.
such hypocrisy is disgusting
chears to all that are here just to watch the pics,for this thread is really about

But you felt compelled to post anyway, right? :roll:

[Bachelor]

[Mousepad]

What's the badge with a horse stands for? The one under nazi party roundel

[Bachelor]

[Bachelor]

[Nuclear_Warrior]

This photo is so creepy, the guy looks exactly like my dad and also a bit like my Grand Father. All I can say is wow. It also looks a lot like me waaaaaat

[Mousepad]

This photo is so creepy, the guy looks exactly like my dad and also a bit like my Grand Father. All I can say is wow. It also looks a lot like me waaaaaat

Don't travel to Poland.

[Nuclear_Warrior]

Don't travel to Poland.

Oh I won't! Funny thing is that I was dating a polish girl a couple of years ago hahaha.

[Switek]

Had SS ever used splinter camouflage?
:roll:

[Marsmann]

What's the badge with a horse stands for? The one under nazi party roundel

German Horsebadge
(Deutsches Reiterabzeichen)

[Mousepad]

German Horsebadge
(Deutsches Reiterabzeichen) (http://www.sauer-militaria.de/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2511)

Thanks, but i don't speak German, can you specify in short? He was cavalerist or something? IIRC he was Navy officer before SS

[Marsmann]

Thanks, but i don't speak German, can you specify in short? He was cavalerist or something? IIRC he was Navy officer before SS
1) "Bronzenes Reiterabzeichen" is required to obtain a license to participate in horse shows. The exam is comprised of practical dressage and jumping on the entry level as well as theory.
2) "Silbernes Reiterabzeichen" proof that you posses the intermediate horse showing qualifiction both in dressage and jumping on L-level.
3) "Goldenes Reiterabzeichen" can only be obtained through a number of wins in highest level competitions both dressage or jumping

[Mousepad]

1) "Bronzenes Reiterabzeichen" is required to obtain a license to participate in horse shows. The exam is comprised of practical dressage and jumping on the entry level as well as theory.
2) "Silbernes Reiterabzeichen" proof that you posses the intermediate horse showing qualifiction both in dressage and jumping on L-level.
3) "Goldenes Reiterabzeichen" can only be obtained through a number of wins in highest level competitions both dressage or jumping

Thanks a lot woot

[Bachelor]

What's the badge with a horse stands for? The one under nazi party roundel








Deutsches Reichsabzeichen fur Leibesubungen




Danziger Kreuz....
Danzig Cross

[Bachelor]

This photo is so creepy, the guy looks exactly like my dad and also a bit like my Grand Father. All I can say is wow. It also looks a lot like me waaaaaat



Don't travel to Poland.

He is the Baltic volunteer....

Like.....

[Bachelor]

[Nuclear_Warrior]

He is the Baltic volunteer....

Like.....



No idea, weird thing is that there is not Baltic heritage on my family, at least that's what I know.

[Bachelor]

[jklv]

What pouches are those?
I've never seen those, looks like leather MP40 magazine pouches.

[Switek]

This is Heer (Wehrmacht), not SS members... :roll:

[Jarhead]

What pouches are those?
I've never seen those, looks like leather MP40 magazine pouches.
Mag Pouches for the Bergmann MP

[Bachelor]

This is Heer (Wehrmacht), not SS members... :roll:

Thanks for correction.

[Bachelor]

[jklv]

Mag Pouches for the Bergmann MP
Danke schön

[Jarhead]

Danke schön
Gern geschehn.
Great photos Bachelor

[maxmin todt]

Great fotos! Thanks! p-)

[Marsmann]

[Marsmann]

Some images from the German Federal Archive:


Kradschützen der SS-Leibstandarte


Albert Klett, SS-Hauptsturmführer


KZ Mauthausen, SS-Untersturmführer


Grendiere der Waffen-SS

[Marsmann]

Russland, Waffen-SS-Männer mit Ritterkreuz

[Bachelor]

[Bachelor]

[thejoker]

What pouches are those?
I've never seen those, looks like leather MP40 magazine pouches.

nope, no mag cases , but map cases more less.

[TRAVLRSEASIA]

I do not believe these are map cases, but actually leather MP28 magazine cases which had the appearance at a distance to be map cases. The MP28 magazine cases were made of black leather (mostly) and were marked inside their flaps as being specifically for the MP28. Another give away in the photo as to the cases being for the MP28 are the tapering of the case flap and latch.

[thejoker]

I do not believe these are map cases, but actually leather MP28 magazine cases which had the appearance at a distance to be map cases. The MP28 magazine cases were made of black leather (mostly) and were marked inside their flaps as being specifically for the MP28. Another give away in the photo as to the cases being for the MP28 are the tapering of the case flap and latch.

I stand corrected , they're very similar at first sight , don't you think?

[Jarhead]

I've already wrote that these pouches are for the Bergmann Mp but you are right, they look similar.

[Bachelor]

[Bachelor]

[Bachelor]

[Bachelor]

Funny pictures in style "Pin-up girl"...
Del by me....

NSFW

[b0sco]

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/2669/1bf59936e7bb.jpg

Got any more of this buddy?

[Mousepad]

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9301/b7f24e056f63.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3848/1f2c3871f219.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7521/2ba45fc6f2c9.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1673/8bf47a7bcd04.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9700/9d324bb560d7.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3901/98ce7b688722.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/4066/80763eb72a33.jpg

Faptastische, and a lil bit NSFW

[AroundTheCorner]

Are their any more of art pieces available???

[Bachelor]

Are their any more of art pieces available???

No...

[yarp]

Funny pictures in style "Pin-up girl"...

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/9301/b7f24e056f63.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3848/1f2c3871f219.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7521/2ba45fc6f2c9.jpg
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1673/8bf47a7bcd04.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9700/9d324bb560d7.jpg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3901/98ce7b688722.jpg
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/4066/80763eb72a33.jpg

Lol... Very good propaganda for the Werwolf

[Bachelor]

[Bachelor]

[AlifRafikKhan]

The son of the Generalfeldmarschall Friedrich Wilhelm Ernst Paulus....

Ernst-Alexander Paulus...





That is not the son of GFM Paulus, Bachelor. He is SS-Obersturmbannführer Karl-Heinz Keitel, son of famous Generalfeldmarschall Wilhelm Keitel...

Regards,

Alif

[Spitfire303]

I think these photos are very interesting and can be a good addition to this thread:

http://www.ushmm.org/research/collections/highlights/auschwitz/

and National Geographic programme about the album

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELzWZ8yRy4Q&feature=PlayList&p=762861C6626BC551&index=0

[brenten]

Re-enactor or real life? I'm guessing its genuine but never saw it before in any publication.

[luftw]

Are their any more of art pieces available???
Yes.

[luftw]

http://www.forosegundaguerra.com/viewtopic.php?t=3196

[Adr]

Does anyone has got some Ron Volstad art in quite good quality and resolution? That's a really good stuff. Regards to all

[AroundTheCorner]

Thank's alot luftw.

[Atlantic Friend]

KZ Mauthausen, SS-Untersturmführer

What has the guard of the Mauthausen concentration camp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauthausen-Gusen_concentration_camp) got to do with the Waffen-SS?

[maxmin todt]

Franz Ziereis?

[Bachelor]

SS School...

[Big Hobbit]

Does anyone has got some Ron Volstad art in quite good quality and resolution? That's a really good stuff. Regards to all

http://diorama.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6907&highlight=%D0%A0%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B4+%D0%92%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B4

http://diorama.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7384&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=%D0%A0%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%B4+%D0%92%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%B4&start=0

[Marsmann]

SS-Obersturmbannführer Otto Skorzeny an der Oder 1945



Heinz Harmel, SS-Brigadeführer u. Generalmajor

[Marsmann]

Nordfrankreich.- Panzer VI "Tiger I" mit 8,8 cm KwK L/56 der SS-Leibstandarte "Adolf Hitler", Frühjahr 1944;

[Marsmann]

North-france, Gournay - Morgny.- three Panzer VI "Tiger I" of the SS-Panzerkorps "Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler" on Road

[Bachelor]

[Pandemonium]

This is Philipp Schmitt, he is not waffen-ss, but the head of the concentration camp of Breendonk in Belgium, after the war he was condemned to death after the war for his numerous war crimes, his dog, the one you can see in the picture, was trained to attack prisoners for the amusement of his master

[heinz89ksk]

This is Philipp Schmitt, he is not waffen-ss, but the head of the concentration camp of Breendonk in Belgium, after the war he was condemned to death after the war for his numerous war crimes, his dog, the one you can see in the picture, was trained to attack prisoners for the amusement of his master

So how i write it ... i dont wont terminate the german crimes, that was a very very bad time for europe, but i hope the belgian dont forget that they have in the history crimes to, not only germany. Perhaps it doesnt was a industrial kill like Ausschwitz, what the belgian do in Kongo, but a crime is a crime, Germany pay a lot and get punishment, and Belgium?
I hate war, I hate crimes, i hate racism, i hate this f****** Adolf Hitler, i hate Stalin, and the others who kill innocents, for me is a human a human, whatever religion, skin color, and so on.
But i hate people who always talk about german crimes, and completely forget the crimes of his own country.

Today 21 people get killed by a bomb in Afghanistan. R.I.P

[Pandemonium]

So how i write it ... i dont wont terminate the german crimes, that was a very very bad time for europe, but i hope the belgian dont forget that they have in the history crimes to, not only germany. Perhaps it doesnt was a industrial kill like Ausschwitz, what the belgian do in Kongo, but a crime is a crime, Germany pay a lot and get punishment, and Belgium?
I hate war, I hate crimes, i hate racism, i hate this f****** Adolf Hitler, i hate Stalin, and the others who kill innocents, for me is a human a human, whatever religion, skin color, and so on.
But i hate people who always talk about german crimes, and completely forget the crimes of his own country.

Today 21 people get killed by a bomb in Afghanistan. R.I.P


ok calm down, i was just suggesting that this particular man is not waffen-ss, and you start referring to something that happened in the 19th century?
Of course there were evil Belgians too (name one country that didn't commit crueltys), and yes a lot of the guards in this particular concentration camp were Belgian , and most of them were even more cruel than the German guards, I didn't doubt that for a second, I was just giving some more information about this picture

[Marsmann]

ok calm down, i was just suggesting that this particular man is not waffen-ss, and you start referring to something that happened in the 19th century?
and why do you start referring to something that happened in the 20th century?:)

70 years or 170, doesn't matter, crime is crime

[heinz89ksk]

ok calm down, i was just suggesting that this particular man is not waffen-ss, and you start referring to something that happened in the 19th century?
Of course there were evil Belgians too (name one country that didn't commit crueltys), and yes a lot of the guards in this particular concentration camp were Belgian , and most of them were even more cruel than the German guards, I didn't doubt that for a second, I was just giving some more information about this picture

sorry, i dont talk about you, i talk in general, i dont want to flout you.

It is good so, that you give more informations about a picture.

But today i read in other forums and youtube comments, about german crimes and german pigs, so i have to write something, before i blow up ^^, so sorry agian

[Pandemonium]

^^ No problem p-)

[Rittmester]

Does any of you know who's the highest decorated front soldier of the W-SS? By this I don't mean knight's cross level (which is a more strategic category), but rather a combination of tank destruction, close combat and assault badges in gold, etc.



I mean like this guy:



..have to add this beauty (with Porche turret)

[Razputin]

the red army was just as bad as any ss unit when they got into germany with the raping and murdering so dont stand there and take the moral high ground.

argyle ive read that book too its awesome another one for you is the twighlight of the gods-a swedish volunteers perspective,he wasnt a nazi but joined to fight the bolsheviks.

the myth of raping and murdering by the Read Army stink a bit of propaganda... a cooked up propaganda during the years of Cold War that is still convenient for many in the Westen power elite... just as its mythical cousin about how not alll the Nazis were bad Nazis.. Waffen SS was first and foremost a symbol of the new Arian nation's superiority above everyone else and especially the undermensch like the Jews or the Slavs... Waffen SS were the enforcers of Nazi ideology.. the new ubermensch "the warriors".. Warriors my ass. Many military buffs in the West seem to get overly excited when it comes to Waffen SS just because they fought the Red Army that was the enemy during the many years of Cold War... Too bad no American villages were pillaged and burned with all of its population shot dead and there is no one in your families who were among those. Maybe if something like that happened on American soil many of you had a very different perspective on Waffen SS.

[AroundTheCorner]

the myth of raping and murdering by the Read Army stink a bit of propaganda... a cooked up propaganda during the years of Cold War that is still convenient for many in the Westen power elite... just as its mythical cousin about how not alll the Nazis were bad Nazis.. Waffen SS was first and foremost a symbol of the new Arian nation's superiority above everyone else and especially the undermensch like the Jews or the Slavs... Waffen SS were the enforcers of Nazi ideology.. the new ubermensch "the warriors".. Warriors my ass. Many military buffs in the West seem to get overly excited when it comes to Waffen SS just because they fought the Red Army that was the enemy during the many years of Cold War... Too bad no American villages were pillaged and burned with all of its population shot dead and there is no one in your families who were among those. Maybe if something like that happened on American soil many of you had a very different perspective on Waffen SS.

Please don't piss yourself... Keep the political stuff out of this thread

[heinz89ksk]

I hope this isnt a repost

[Jarhead]

the myth of raping and murdering by the Read Army stink a bit of propaganda... a cooked up propaganda during the years of Cold War that is still convenient for many in the Westen power elite... just as its mythical cousin about how not alll the Nazis were bad Nazis.. Waffen SS was first and foremost a symbol of the new Arian nation's superiority above everyone else and especially the undermensch like the Jews or the Slavs... Waffen SS were the enforcers of Nazi ideology.. the new ubermensch "the warriors".. Warriors my ass. Many military buffs in the West seem to get overly excited when it comes to Waffen SS just because they fought the Red Army that was the enemy during the many years of Cold War... Too bad no American villages were pillaged and burned with all of its population shot dead and there is no one in your families who were among those. Maybe if something like that happened on American soil many of you had a very different perspective on Waffen SS.

I suggest you to read a few books.:|

It seems like most of you are not aware with a few common things about the SS.

First of all, the SS wasn't a part of the Wehrmacht, nor the Police, it was a self-dependend troop under the command of Adolf Hitler.
Leader of the SS was Heinrich Himmler over the SS-Hauptamt, Berlin.

The drill/training was under supervision of the Heer. In case of an armed conflict the SS was under subordinate of the Oberkommando des Heeres.
The drill was strictly under the useage of the Heeresdienstvorschriften.
Most of the leaders and enlisted-men were serving in the Reichswehr (100000 men army), Police, or the Wehrmacht before.

Service in the SS
only Volunteers. You were able to do your miltary-service in the SS.
The racial requirements were mostly just utopia, especially during the war(Freiwilligen Verbände).

You can not say all SS soldiers were fanitic, jew hating murders.
The Politische Weltanschaung (policial ideoligy) which was praised by RFSS was actually not taught between 1939-1945 because of the huge military demants during the war.
In the time before 1939, so from 1933 - 1939 - the time in which the SS-VT (Verfügungstruppe) was formed was also almost no time for politischen Unterricht.
A complete "new" army was formed out of nothing within 6 years. 38 Divisions till 1945

The subject SS is so complex that it takes years to get a proper overview over the whole thematic.

And furthermore, all this policical new-age bull**** like cry me a river- Germans have done that Russians have done that is just Kindergarten stupidity.
None of our generations should judge what happened. We simply can not imagine how it was to live in that time.
Many books have been written so far, its up to you to if you want to learn more and may get a new point of view.

Just cut it off now and get back on topic.