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Marmot1
03-01-2004, 10:39 PM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/06/25/MN80532.DTL

http://www.sfgate.com/chronicle/pictures/2001/06/25/mn_russiasubs.jpg
http://www.sfgate.com/chronicle/pictures/2001/06/25/mn_russiasub.jpg


Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, Russia -- In Russia's Far East, home to the country's Pacific submarine fleet, thieves within the navy are stripping subs of everything from radio equipment to radioactive isotopes and selling them to criminals.

The crime wave threatens the fleet's safety and has sparked fears about the spread of nuclear weapons. It is all the more alarming because of the area's proximity to North Korea, whose agents operate in the region and have attempted to acquire submarine technology and information.

The most recent known incident occurred in Petropavlovsk on April 24, when three officers were arrested on charges of stealing parts that included radioactive isotopes.

The crime is the second to draw the attention of authorities this year, said Yury Sazonov, military prosecutor with Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky garrison, which is handling the cases. Earlier this year, an officer and a civilian colleague stole similar parts from another submarine.

At least 10 people are believed to have been arrested last year for stealing parts from diesel and nuclear submarines, said Igor Kravchuk, a military reporter with the newspaper Vesti. He suspects that many more thefts went unreported; the military does not publicly report convictions.

One of the most frightening scenarios is that thieves could accidentally touch off a nuclear accident.

Last year in Kamchatka, two sailors sneaked into the nuclear reactor compartment of a submarine and stole the catalysts for igniting the reactor because they contained palladium, a metal of the platinum group, Interfax news service reported. The nine stolen tubes were worth $3,571 apiece.

The thieves also stole 12 radioactive calibrating plates, which looked like gold. (The sailors didn't realize the material was radioactive and hid it under the mattresses of their beds.)

The sailors even tried to lift the control rods but failed because an engineer had welded the lever down. If it hadn't been, they could have sparked a catastrophe, venting radioactive material over the port and thousands of people in the surrounding area.

The crime rate among navy officers on the Kamchatka peninsula has been mushrooming. In 1999, the last year for which statistics are available, the military crime rate was growing by about 20 percent annually, said Sazonov.

"There are constant attacks on the submarines by navy personnel, because they are so poorly paid that they have to steal metal and cable and other things in order to get by and get their families food," said James Clay Moltz, a research professor and associate director of the Center for Nonproliferation Studies at the Monterey Institute of International Studies.

"The senior navy officials have described it as 'a state of war,' and that's really what it is."

Publicly, at least, the navy is in denial about what is going on.

Rear Admiral Konstantin Sidenko, commander of the Northeast Armed Forces, dismissed the reports from newspapers and his own prosecutorial staff.

"Nobody has stolen anything this year," he said in a phone interview. "What was written in the newspapers is nothing but lies. There was a wave of thefts in 1998, but those who did that have been punished recently."

However, Sazonov, the military prosecutor, said theft from submarines is a booming and lucrative business.

"Unfortunately, this market is developing quite fast, so we are trying to fight it," he said.

Behind the epidemic of thievery is the harsh reality of post-communist Russia.

Newly inducted sailors are paid less than $3.50 a month, according to the Pacific Fleet headquarters, and even veteran submarine officers make only about $63 a month. And like some civilian workers, their wages are often unpaid for months at a time. The national daily Trud reported recently that 48 percent of military officers earn wages at below the national poverty level.

Submarines are tempting targets because they are packed with expensive equipment. And despite Russia's current economic troubles, it boasts a large submarine fleet in the Far East.

In Kamchatka, there are nine Delta III nuclear submarines with a total of 143 long-range missiles carrying 429 nuclear warheads, along with an older Delta I sub carrying 12 missiles with single warheads, Moltz said. Another 12 nuclear attack and guided-missile submarines in port are designed to fire nuclear-tipped cruise missiles and torpedoes at enemy ships. Many of these submarines no longer go to sea and are guarded only by two-man skeleton crews.

Twelve more nuclear attack submarines and another Delta I are based in the nearby region of Primorye. Most of these submarines, too, are decommissioned and guarded by light crews.

The risky situation has resulted in international attempts to pare the fleet. The U.S. Cooperative Threat Reduction program has been paying to help Russia dismantle 14 Delta and Yankee-class nuclear submarines in Bolshoi Kamen,

near Vladivostok. Likewise, the Japanese have offered $120 million to dismantle submarines, but only in Primorye, along the Sea of Japan.

Navy officials and Western Russia watchers aren't the only ones who have taken an interest in the thefts from subs.

North Korea is eager to get its hands on Russian nuclear submarine technology. In 1999, a former employee of the Zvezda shipyard near Vladivostok was arrested trying to sell radioactive materials to undercover agents posing as a broker for North Korea.

In 1996, 17 North Korean guest workers were caught trying to infiltrate a nuclear submarine facility in the Primorye region and were repatriated. And authorities have arrested North Korean workers for trying to buy dismantlement schedules and cruising patterns for nuclear vessels, Moltz said.

Many sailors and officers who steal parts melt the metal at home, producing impure ingots, Sazonov said. Precious metals such as beryllium and lithium are particularly in demand, but thieves often sell gold and platinum to local jewelry stores.

Open a newspaper in this city, and it is obvious that a thriving enterprise has sprung up.

"Company buys new and used radio equipment," state classified advertisements in the newspaper Vesti. The ads list electronic components for which the buyer offers up to $600.

The dispatcher of one company that buys equipment salvaged from the navy said her company pays up to $1,000 for some parts.

"We have a lot of competitors all over the city," said the woman, who declined to give her name. "Some are very close to the military units, so they get more business than we do."

Nuclear submarines are not the only vessels being looted. Last year, the diesel submarine fleet was even more subject to pillaging, said Kravchuk. An entire division of Kilo class submarines was disabled by thefts, he said.

The thieves even stole parts from the reactor areas, including equipment for measuring radioactivity, and they ripped out hydrogen-burning furnaces for the platinum and palladium they contained. The suspects are awaiting a verdict in a closed trial.

After the theft from the nuclear reactor compartment of the submarine in Kamchatka, Russian Navy commander Vladimir Kuroyedov fired two senior submarine officers, and 10 other officers and admirals were penalized for negligence.

But that is hardly enough to allay fears of a disaster.

"You don't want disgruntled individuals handling nuclear submarines, not to mention weapons," Moltz said. "It's a very bad recipe."

UkrainianAmerican
03-01-2004, 10:42 PM
True or not, SFGate is not a reliable source.

Rakki
03-02-2004, 12:31 AM
Of course Russian submarines are renowned for their safety record and the ones reportedly sinking due to disrepair by the dockside.... are all lies, lies lies...

Kilgor
03-02-2004, 12:37 AM
there is no theft in russia.. all capitalist lies !!!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1056566.htm

SeanAshi
03-02-2004, 12:48 AM
Isn't that the area where the Soviets blew that South Korean airliner out of the sky for violating their airspace?

Russian Texan
03-02-2004, 01:05 AM
there is no theft in russia.. all capitalist lies !!!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1056566.htm

It is not theft, it is business...
In US contractors gut out old houses for copper pipes, according to "Sopranos" :) , in Russia they gut out old nuclear submarines, it's the same thing ;)
And not only that, Russia also has other countries paying for it rofl rofl rofl
Also this could be used as a basis for another loan request: to improve security of disposal sites so dangerous materials don't get into the wrong hands...
Sure, be proud how civilized, advanced and democratic you are, and Russia will keep the money... :lol:
I wonder when the West will finally realise that they have been and are being screwed by Russia for billions of dollars.
I think next Russia will ask for a loan to rebuild Chechnya, humanitarian crisis you know...

Kilgor
03-02-2004, 01:26 AM
most of "us" are still laughing at how valueable state assets were sold for a pittance to friends of the state.

How much did u guys lose on that ?

Russian Texan
03-02-2004, 01:41 AM
most of "us" are still laughing at how valueable state assets were sold for a pittance to friends of the state.

How much did u guys lose on that ?

Uh?

Truthsayer
03-02-2004, 03:09 PM
More worreing is the documentary about the russian supersubs that usually need 130 officers to operate, but these last years they always end up a few a short, in some cases even as much as 20-30 men (officers) short - and they pack 200 warheards in their cargo. And are the only nuclear-unit that can launch their cargo without any authorisation or confirmation from moskow - since they should also be able to function as the last line of retaliation incase Russia was struck hard...

Loosing communcation, mytheny (*sp*), fighting onboard and suddenly we have a Tom Clancy-story happening in real life. =)

Russian Texan
03-02-2004, 03:28 PM
More worreing is the documentary about the russian supersubs that usually need 130 officers to operate, but these last years they always end up a few a short, in some cases even as much as 20-30 men (officers) short - and they pack 200 warheards in their cargo. And are the only nuclear-unit that can launch their cargo without any authorisation or confirmation from moskow - since they should also be able to function as the last line of retaliation incase Russia was struck hard...

Loosing communcation, mytheny (*sp*), fighting onboard and suddenly we have a Tom Clancy-story happening in real life. =)

That is exactly why West should take over paying their salaries and take care of the russian officers families ashore.

Truthsayer
03-02-2004, 03:31 PM
Sure, but after your friends boosted that you didn't need anything from Finland or Sweden, I'm not gonna work for it to ever happend. Talk to your pals if you want me to change my mind. ;)

Russian Texan
03-02-2004, 03:37 PM
Sure, but after your friends boosted that you didn't need anything from Finland or Sweden, I'm not gonna work for it to ever happend. Talk to your pals if you want me to change my mind. ;)

Now, hold on a second: we don't need their land and snow, but we didn't say anything about the money and perks for the officers families...
Although I do agree that there should be some kind of separation of duties: europeans take care of diesels and the US takes care of Typhoons, Oscars, etc. crews, fair enough?

Kilgor
03-02-2004, 06:00 PM
Russian Texan, seriously dude.. give it a rest.

The cold war is over, you lost.
The iron curtan has rusted.
Communism is on the "ash pile" of history.
Russian armies are a annorexic shadow of their former selves.
Your no longer the bad boy on the block, people are far more worried abouit islamic terrorism.

Let the past go dude.

:slap:

Russian Texan
03-02-2004, 10:40 PM
Russian Texan, seriously dude.. give it a rest.
Give a rest to what?

The cold war is over, you lost.
Really, how could I missed that :cantbeli: ?

The iron curtan has rusted.
What curtain?

Communism is on the "ash pile" of history.
Tell this to Castro :)

Russian armies are a annorexic shadow of their former selves
Who is arguing? Although I bet M. Tyson still can beat the **** out of Oscar Delahoya ;)

Your no longer the bad boy on the block,
Who said Russia wants to be?

Guys what you don't get is that your knowledge of Russia is full of holes, myths and misconceptions, you simply have no clue what is going on there and why is it happenning.
I have the benefit of being able to look from a distance, understand and compare events.
I am not re-living the past, I am educating you about the present, that is one of the benefits of the internet: to be able to talk to people with a personal insight... So you can either listen to people who have a clue and an undestanding of the situation or you can watch CNN, Fox and BBC...

soma
03-02-2004, 11:09 PM
Wait, why should someone else take care of your weapons???

Russian Texan
03-02-2004, 11:22 PM
Wait, why should someone else take care of your weapons???

To ensure their safety and accountability :)

venture160
03-02-2004, 11:23 PM
because russia obviously can't take care of their own weapons, and there is NOTHING stopping terrorists from getting them. if you want to have a major us city vanish because of a terrorist bomb that was created from stolen russian parts than you can claim that it is russia's problem

Russian Texan
03-02-2004, 11:32 PM
because russia obviously can't take care of their own weapons, and there is NOTHING stopping terrorists from getting them. if you want to have a major us city vanish because of a terrorist bomb that was created from stolen russian parts than you can claim that it is russia's problem

Hit a nail right on a head :)
I have an idea: I'll setup an account and so you all can start investing into your safe, civilized and WMD free future, so what do you guys say?

soma
03-03-2004, 12:41 AM
Or just decomission the damn things.


That or go back in time and use some foresight!

Kilgor
03-03-2004, 01:05 AM
Send them to those massive shipyards in India where all the pesant workers cut the things up into scrap!!

GazB
03-04-2004, 05:57 AM
Or just decomission the damn things.


That or go back in time and use some foresight!

That is a bit rich... remember the missile gap scandal? The Americans decided against the advice of the CIA that the USSR had more nukes than them so they set in motion the production of lots and lots of ICBMs. Well satellite imagry showed them the Soviets didn't have lots of these weapons so instead of saying "whoops" and cancelling all these new weapons at a large cost they instead changed policy to a first strike capability where their new missiles would be useful.
The Soviets only caught up in numbers in the early 80s.

If you want to blame someone for nuclear brinkmanship in the cold war blame yourselves. (ie the west).