WW2 - Anyone Identify this Bridge?

[Danvnuk]

My Grandfather (passed away now) served in the British Army Royal Engineers during WW2. North Africa, Sicily and Italy.

I have a couple of photos of him, But this one in paticular intrigues me - I've tried but cannot identify the bridge in the background - I suspect it may be Italy (He was apparently 'creased' by a bullet at the River Po, one of his mates killed and another wounded - and that was just a week or so previous of the date on the board)

Can anyone have a stab at the location?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/danvnuk/Grandad3.jpg

My Grandfather is the guy crouched botton left hand corner of the sign wearing a beret

[James]

Hmm, the Po seems likely based on timing and location. What engineer unit was he with, or what division was he a part of? That might help you tighten up your inquiry.

[Danvnuk]

James, I'm really not sure what engineer unit he was with, or even the Division.

I have a Photo of him in Germany in 1946 - and he's wearing the XXX Corps Armpatch (Boar) but my Father says that he was wounded in North Africa (Vehicle he was driving went over a mine) - he had some kind of complication related to this, and was in Hospital in Germany in Late 1945/46 - He then got a posting he paticuarly wanted (and secured by devious means apparently) - which may explain the XXX corps armpatch.

BTW - here's a photo with him and pal with German POW's posing in background. Suspect this may be Italy as well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/danvnuk/Grandad2.jpg

[Ruledbyjames]

Well given the date of the bridge plaque I say it is Po. Here is some info on Po I found http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/brochures/po/72-33.htm.

Hope I was some help!

If he is Boar, there is some info given on the South Africans.
Go to chapter 19

[eucalyptus]

Im guessing Po Valley aswell

[Kekkonen]

My Grandfather (passed away now) served in the British Army Royal Engineers during WW2. North Africa, Sicily and Italy.

I don't know how it works in United Kingdom but there should be something similar to the War Archive that we have here, where it is possible to order all the documents they have about your grandfather, together with the war diary that his batallion had (or equivalent unit).

My grandfather fought in world war two too (but in the eastern front). I ordered my grandfathers' batallions' war diary together with all the documents they had about him, and I must say that it's recommended! Especially the war diary was gold.

[Cabbage]

I know that area of the world quite well. I also know the Po river and in the photo it's quite skinny. It's much wider before you get to Piacenza. Yet the countryside is too flat to be after Pavia. So I would say that photo was taken at the Po somewhere inbetween Piacenza and Pavia. Hope this helps you with narrowing it down a bit.

[Johnny_H]

My Grandfather (passed away now) served in the British Army Royal Engineers during WW2. North Africa, Sicily and Italy.

I have a couple of photos of him, But this one in paticular intrigues me - I've tried but cannot identify the bridge in the background - I suspect it may be Italy (He was apparently 'creased' by a bullet at the River Po, one of his mates killed and another wounded - and that was just a week or so previous of the date on the board)

Can anyone have a stab at the location?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/danvnuk/Grandad3.jpg

My Grandfather is the guy crouched botton left hand corner of the sign wearing a beret
The sign on the bridge is most definitly the designation of the "1st or 2nd Canadian Corps"
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/2420/1corps9qf.th.jpg (http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1corps9qf.jpg)

2nd Corps
http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/5982/2corps8cf.th.jpg (http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2corps8cf.jpg)

Based off this I will research it sommore for you, its entirely possible he was attached to them or something, there is no mistaking that sign though that is for sure.

Best guess would be somewhere in Holland.
If the Canadian Corps designation is on that sign.

[Danvnuk]

Thanks for the help so far fellas - some really helpful information being thrown out.

Johnny_H I do believe you are right, I've had a close look at the photo and it definately looks like the 1st or 2nd Canadian Corps designations you posted - amazing, I've never been able to make it out before.

That's interesting as I mentioned previously, I have a picture of him taken at the end of the war wearing XXX corps flashes on his arm - who were also in Holland towards the end of the war I believe.

My Father (its his Dad) seems to remember that he was definately at the river Po during the war - but he also relates that my Grandfather didn't like talking about the war much, you had to "get him in the mood" It's possibe over time that its got a bit muddled.

Here's a Couple more photos that might help -

A guide for allied forces my Grandfather brought home - he marked the locations he'd been at on the map inside during the campaign.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/danvnuk/Tunisia001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/danvnuk/Tunisia003.jpg

This Photo is marked on the back 'Hilden Germany 1946' I've been told my Grandfather on recovery from Hospital managed to get a job as a despatch rider.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/danvnuk/Grandad002.jpg

No Idea where this was taken or what the information on the side of the truck signifies...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/danvnuk/Grandad004.jpg

Here's the Photo with the XXX Corps Armpatch...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/danvnuk/xxxcorps001.jpg

Thanks Again Fellas for the help.

[Kicius]

If it's the XX Corps patch on the last picture (and for sure it is) - So, maybe corps HQ engineers?
(Not sure how to say it correct in english - engineer unit attached to Corps HQ)

As somone mentioned - try the military archives. Two years ago I found almost anything about my grandfathers service. It's worth your time. ;-)

[Cabbage]

It could be what JohnnyH said or it could be the Po in Italy like I said. I'm split in deciding. I did a bit of research and he could be equally placed in Holland or Italy.
The famous Ramegan Bridge was known as the "Last Bridge of the War". Maybe your grandfather went sightseeing at the end of the war? Or just happened to be in the area at the time and took the photo op?

If your grandfather was with the Royal Engineers in Italy, he would have been with various British units around the Po at the end of April. By May 5th the Brits would be pushing north and passed the Po. Though maybe he was left behind to put up temporary bridges?

Maybe the sign on the Bridge is a red herring. It could be a sticker stuck on their by a passing unit. Or maybe the board belonged to that unit. With the mess of the Second World War anything could've happened and to read too much into it is wrong, I believe.

If it is the Po, (I'm not totally convinced it is) it would be nearer the source (Torino end) because as I said once you get to the Piacenza, it is much wider. The only problem is it's not so flat towards Torino (like in the photo).

Very hard to decipher...good luck mate.

[Danvnuk]

Cabbage - Interesting points you raise.

I get the impression that the 'Last Bridge of the War' means the last Bridge they constructed as Engineers, apparently my Grandfather related tales of constructing bridges under fire to my Father - so I'm presuming this would be one he worked on as well.

I'm not totally convinced its the Po either - I wondered whether it could be a Bridge constructed (obviously by the date) right at the wars end and therefore of no real strategic importance, so not really recorded

You can see the remains of a destroyed Bridge in the background to the left - I've looked at various photos of Pontoon Bridges and the only one I can see so far with a destroyed span in shot is The Po - but - the wrecked bridge appears to be a different construction to the one in the Photo.

All very mysterious.

Thanks for taking the time to have a ponder though :)

[Freibier]

I have no idea where that bridge could be but very nice pics, thanks for sharing! :)

[Johnny_H]

Cabbage - Interesting points you raise.

I get the impression that the 'Last Bridge of the War' means the last Bridge they constructed as Engineers, apparently my Grandfather related tales of constructing bridges under fire to my Father - so I'm presuming this would be one he worked on as well.

I'm not totally convinced its the Po either - I wondered whether it could be a Bridge constructed (obviously by the date) right at the wars end and therefore of no real strategic importance, so not really recorded

You can see the remains of a destroyed Bridge in the background to the left - I've looked at various photos of Pontoon Bridges and the only one I can see so far with a destroyed span in shot is The Po - but - the wrecked bridge appears to be a different construction to the one in the Photo.

All very mysterious.

Thanks for taking the time to have a ponder though :)
I find the story of "Soldiers sticking stickers over the sign" unlikely, those signs all had the mark of the units that were in that area, as to prevent confusion ( So jamming stickers over that of the unit occupying that area would be a big NO NO ) . There are allot of instances where Royal Canadian Engineers and Royal Engineers would work together.

I am still banking on it being Holland, but I could be wrong.

its possible that the Royal Engineers constructed a bridge in the area of the 2nd Canadian Corps.
I am going with the 2nd because the diamond behind the maple leaf stands out against the bars, where as the 1st canadian corps diamond behind the leaf matches color, so it woudlnt stand out in a B&W photo

[Mastermind]

I have to agree on the "sticker" issue. Those guys were pretty jealous of their insignia and also, considering the time, vandalizim then was probably not what it is today.

[Danvnuk]

Ok - Looks like Im leaning towards Holland now - I understand Both Canadian Corps moved from Italy to North West Europe at the end of the war - and had British units attached.

I mentioned this to my father and he looked thoughtful, and said he'd overheard his father talking to a wartime mate once and was sure he'd heard him mention Njimegen.

In any case - looks like he was wrong about getting 'creased' at the Po, must have been somewhere else - but like I said, it seems he never talked about his wartime experiences much apparently, most of the information my Dad has was overheard or gleaned - a lot of potential for mis-understandings.


By the way - Thought some of you may find this interesting -
From the "Pocket Guide to Tunisia" issued to Allied Troops and posted above - The 'Do's and Dont's guide' from inside. Some are pretty amusing....

(edited - the re-size of the photos means the text is too small to read - here's links instead)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/danvnuk/Tunisia004.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/danvnuk/Tunisia005.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/danvnuk/Tunisia006.jpg

[Johnny_H]

Ok - Looks like Im leaning towards Holland now - I understand Both Canadian Corps moved from Italy to North West Europe at the end of the war - and had British units attached.

I mentioned this to my father and he looked thoughtful, and said he'd overheard his father talking to a wartime mate once and was sure he'd heard him mention Njimegen.

In any case - looks like he was wrong about getting 'creased' at the Po, must have been somewhere else - but like I said, it seems he never talked about his wartime experiences much apparently, most of the information my Dad has was overheard or gleaned - a lot of potential for mis-understandings.


By the way - Thought some of you may find this interesting -
From the "Pocket Guide to Tunisia" issued to Allied Troops and posted above - The 'Do's and Dont's guide' from inside. Some are pretty amusing....

(edited - the re-size of the photos means the text is too small to read - here's links instead)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/danvnuk/Tunisia004.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/danvnuk/Tunisia005.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/danvnuk/Tunisia006.jpg
well this is making more sense, the 1st Canadian Division was brought from Italy to Holland in 45, to form part of the 1st Canadian Army.

and yes there were British units attached, furthermore it wasnt uncommon for British and Canadian engineer units to work together, and interchange personel on occasion. One of the places the Canadians were was at Njimegen.


Really cool Heirloom you have there, and some interesting concerns paid to the local population.

I have to agree on the "sticker" issue. Those guys were pretty jealous of their insignia and also, considering the time, vandalizim then was probably not what it is today.

Not to mention how crucial it would be to not vandalise such things, as peoples lives depended on those signs directing convoys, trucks and fighting personel to the proper area's, any such incidents could have bigger repercussions then expected, and also could be seen as potential Enemy activity, I seem to recall reading storys of Germans switching road signs etc, so why not also cause confusion in supply lines if they could.

[stoddy9311]

http://www.remuseum.org.uk/

contact the Corp museum, they can help

[Cabbage]

Ok, I'll concede the sticker part. Though the nearer you get to the end of the War, the more confused things got and the less significance there was to keep things accurate.

It's more likely it is Holland, for the sole reason that Holland is flat and Italy is the opposite. And the picture shows a very flat land. But here lies another problem. If it is May in the pic, it is more likely Italy than Holland, because May in Holland is not as hot as would be implied in the pic, but Italy can have high temperatures from the beginning of May. So again the pendulum shifts to it being Italy.

I think we need to call Sherlock Holmes. :)

[Danvnuk]

http://www.remuseum.org.uk/

contact the Corp museum, they can help

Thanks Stoddy9311 I have e-mailed the photo to the RE Museum - I'll keep everyone posted if anything turns up.

[eucalyptus]

This is the reason I come on mp.net
Really interesting stuff. The do´s and don´ts are funny as hell. I know they are serious but funny.

[Cabbage]

Ok, I'm pretty sure I solved the mystery. The river in question isn't in Holland or Italy. It's in Germany. The "Last Bridge" is the Canadian version of the famous "Truman Bridge" the Americans built over the river Elbe.

Here is a picture of your grandad and the bridge in question and below, for comparison, another similar bridge built over the Elbe:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v201/danvnuk/Grandad3.jpg


http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/2262/180thrsb3yy.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

It was known as the "Last Bridge of the War" because it's where the Russians and Allies finally met up and where the Germans finally surrendered. I'm pretty positive it's correct and I bet someone can come up with a picture of the sign in your grandad's photo....

[Danvnuk]

Cheers Cabbage,

I'm not so convinced- although its a possibilty - I'm fairly sure the context is "The Last Bridge" his paticular engineer company has had to build rather than an actual "last Bridge" although, its open to interpretation :)

*edited* I was being thick and missed the "similar bridge" part about the photo!

[Cabbage]

The actual "Last Bridge" of the war made famous by the movie was the Ramegan Bridge in the Rhine. This isn't it, because that was a railway bridge with high double girders, was much longer and there were high cliffs at the end. So obviously not that.

The bridges at Elbe were the last ones to be built because the war ended when they reached the Elbe. The Canadian Royal Engineers were there, so were the British at that time. The river is exactly the same width in both photos and the scenery is very similar. Also if you see the banks..very similar (shown in both photos).