7.62 brand?

[ReggayMC]

Waht brand makes the 7.62 round for the M24/ i know that all snipers use the same brand to know how it drops, how wind affects it,etc.

[TacoDelRio]

Lake City M118 Special Ball FMJBT

[HoboWithAK]

Waht brand makes the 7.62 round for the M24/ i know that all snipers use the same brand to know how it drops, how wind affects it,etc.
They basically all use the same stuff, M118LR (If you don't count the other speciality rounds, and I don't think they still issue M118 en masse, do they?), but they don't go from one sheet of dopes. Every batch of ammo has to be re-zeroed and recorded for every shooter and his rifle. That's only the beginning of acheiving precision.

If you are looking for the specific manufacturer and the specs, I don't have them infront of me. Google it.

[Seraphim]

What Hobo said...M118LR

[DeltaWhisky58]

Possibly the best sniper ammo in the World, but maybe not easily available in the US - Lapua from finland as used by the SAS etc.

http://www.lapua.com

[dangerdan87]

Lake City M118 Special Ball FMJBT

Snipers' don't use Full Metal Jackets. They use Boat Tail Hollow Points.
They look like FMJ's kind of, but theyre not.

[TacoDelRio]

Snipers' don't use Full Metal Jackets. They use Boat Tail Hollow Points.
They look like FMJ's kind of, but theyre not.

Geneva convention says it's a no-no to use hollow points and similar ammo against certain targets, IE ones that aren't terrorists or criminals. In other words, in a "conventional" war, a sniper isn't allowed to use specialty ammo (HP's etc whatever) against normal combatants.

Military snipers are only "supposed" to use FMJ's.

And yes, I know what HPBT's look like, I use them all the time in the same caliber. Black Hills 168gr HPBT's. They go straight.

K?

[dangerdan87]

Geneva convention says it's a no-no to use hollow points and similar ammo against certain targets, IE ones that aren't terrorists or criminals. In other words, in a "conventional" war, a sniper isn't allowed to use specialty ammo (HP's etc whatever) against normal combatants.

Military snipers are only "supposed" to use FMJ's.

And yes, I know what HPBT's look like, I use them all the time in the same caliber. Black Hills 168gr HPBT's. They go straight.

K?

My buddy used BTHP's in Iraq. BTHP's arent banned by the Geneva convention, as opposed by hollowpoints. Hollow points and BTHP's are mearly different within eachother

[Seraphim]

I think those BTHP are just those open tip rounds...to get by the geneva convention.

[TacoDelRio]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but for my ammo, HP = Hollow Point, and BT = Boat Tail (streamlined).

Did I just f*ck up on a translation?

I understand that hollowpoints have been used, but they aren't M118, that's part of what I'm getting at.

[James]

Which Geneva Convention (year) are you talking about? There have been four or five, and the U.S. isn't a party to all of them.

Just curious.

[TacoDelRio]

Which Geneva Convention (year) are you talking about? There have been four or five, and the U.S. isn't a party to all of them.

Just curious.

Really?

I don't know. I just remember being told multiple times about how those rounds cause "undue suffering", and how rounds such as the AK74's "silver bullet" or whatever got around it by having an air pocket in the nose of the bullet, instead of a hole.

Something about use of hollowpoints being legal against only certain targets such as terrorists. Might be in the "laws of land warfare", but I don't know the difference! :)

[ABNINF]

They 168gr Sierra HPBT's are NOT an expanding round, which allows them to be used in combat. They do not cause undue suffering, as the "hollow-point" is a result of the manufacturing process. I know this because I wanted to use them for hunting, and did some reseach and found out that they weren't expanding, which precludes them from being used for hunting purposes.

There was a thread about this awhile back, because some Senator or Representative tried to ban them. A Marine got court martialed for and OPSEC breach during all of it. Can't find the thread though......

[TacoDelRio]

Holy sh*t, I did not know that.

Thanks for the info!

Harumph.

[rister]

Rifle Ammunition
RUAG Ammotec has been developing, producing and marketing rifle ammunition of the most varied calibres for more than 140 years. The current range comprises standard ammunition of the calibres 5.56 x 45mm and 7.62 x 51mm as well as special ammunition in various calibres. The special ammunition is summarized in the SWISS P line.

308 Win. / 7.62 x 51mm

This ammunition convinces by its penetration force and precision in both training and combat. It can be used in assault rifles and machine guns. Our ammunition with the SINTOX® technology has proved its worth with the German and other armed forces for many years.

300 Win. Mag. /7.62mm

This is a popular calibre among snipers. It is used e.g. by the German Armed Forces, the German police and special units such as the GSG 9, which is why you will find ammunition of this calibre in the SWISS P line.


The range comprises ball, tracer and blank ammunition. The SWISS P line includes special ammunition of this calibre.


http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/rister/binary.gif



With the GP90 for the Swiss Army we are producing the world's most precise standard military ammunition of calibre 5.56 x 45mm.
Our modern production equipment enables the production of large series packed to the customer's specification.
Various products are NATO-qualified and feature low-pollution SINTOX® ignition elements

[Mastermind]

Geneva conventions declare use of anti-aircraft weapons illegal to use against personnel...yet, look what is on every armored vehicle and transports... .50 MG which is clearly an AAC gun...also, what is on the Bradley FV...37 mm What are helicopters using against troops in the open> .37 mm , ,30mm, 20mm all are clearly AAC guns. In vietnam we used quad .50's and the twin 40mm mounts on trucks and tracked units aimed specifically against ground troops. Also, we used tear gas in massive quanities (not sure that is illegal since it is not supposed to be deadly)...so, it seems that just about any weapon can be used against insurgent, non-uniformed combatants, such as we face in Iraq and Afghanistan. HP, soft nosed, dum-dums,"shredders (expanding blade rounds), large calibre...even wooden bullets or poison tipped...use 'em all against non-uniformed irregulars and Geneva Conv never comes into play.

[towelie]

not many people really follow the geneva convention

[ABNINF]

Geneva conventions declare use of anti-aircraft weapons illegal to use against personnel...yet, look what is on every armored vehicle and transports... .50 MG which is clearly an AAC gun...also, what is on the Bradley FV...37 mm What are helicopters using against troops in the open> .37 mm , ,30mm, 20mm all are clearly AAC guns. In vietnam we used quad .50's and the twin 40mm mounts on trucks and tracked units aimed specifically against ground troops. Also, we used tear gas in massive quanities (not sure that is illegal since it is not supposed to be deadly)...so, it seems that just about any weapon can be used against insurgent, non-uniformed combatants, such as we face in Iraq and Afghanistan. HP, soft nosed, dum-dums,"shredders (expanding blade rounds), large calibre...even wooden bullets or poison tipped...use 'em all against non-uniformed irregulars and Geneva Conv never comes into play.

Yes, but the Laws of War allow for you to use any weapon at your disposal to dispatch the enemy, within reason. Using the 30mm on enemy personnel is allowed, because it is the "smallest" weapon system on that aircraft. There is a common sense element to it, as it would not require you to land the aircraft and shoot the enemy with your pistol. Same thing for turret gunners in Iraq, you can engage with the .50 because it would endanger your life to try to draw a pistol or use an M4, when the .50 is the first weapon system available.

[AlexNenadic]

what is on the Bradley FV...37 mm

M242 Bushmaster 25mm cannon. Get your info straight.

[mogsniper94]

Yaa i put alot of thought into the geneva convention when i got in my last firefight.

The bullet is called a HP but it really is like stated before, a product of the manufacturing process.. The brass is formed to the tip (not sealed), it was found they remain more accurate if not sealed at the tip like an FMJ. MOre uniform..

The most accurate load out there is the 155 gr Palma match load in LApua cases, that have been uniformed and prepped. And handloaded by me.

These rounds are located on my workbench in my basement and are awaiting the coyote in my back yard to show his head.

They shoot way better than factory... The key is handloading for uniformity!!!

[ABNINF]

Roger that, there's no better load than the one you taylor for your rifle.

Also, Alex, Mastermind is an old school BTDT, so relax a little.

[Oddbod]

Please note that it is the HAGUE CONVENTIONS that proscribe the use of expanding/fragmenting ammunition.
This also only applies to signatories of said Conventions when fighting against another signatory.

[TacoDelRio]

Hmm maybe we should have a Laws of Land Warfare / Hague Conventions / Geneva Conventions thread or something.