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View Full Version : 90 years ago -- the hell of Verdun


stonecutter
02-24-2006, 12:43 PM
On Feb 22nd, 1916, the Germans launched their offensive against Verdun with the aim of bleeding the French Army white. Total combined casualties exceeded over 1,000,000 men, irreperably scarring both armies.

The Bois des Caures, defended by the famous Colonel Driant and his Chasseurs, was among the first places to take the brunt of the German attack:

From The Price of Glory, by Alistair Horne, 1962, p. 83:

All morning the devastating bombardment continued. Then, about midday there was a sudden pause. Suspecting that the attack was now imminent, the shaken survivors in the Bois de Caures emerged from their cover. It was just what the Germans had hoped for, all part of the plan (though neither Stephane nor his commander, Driant, could know this). Now the German artillery artillery observers could see which strong-points, which sections of trench in the French first line appeared to have withstood the terrible 210s. It became the turn of the precise, short-range heavy mortars to administer the coup-de-grace with their huge packets of explosive, while the 210s lifted the new targets further back.

p. 97:
At midday...the bombardment lifted, and the whole weight of the German XVIII corps moved forward against the remnants of Driant's two battalions in waves 500 yards apart. ....Their patrols had uncovered on the Achilles Heels in the French system about which Driant had warned the Army Commission, in the letter that had so outraged Joffre. In the unfair way of war it was Driant, not Joffre, who was now to foot the bill for French neglect. To the right of the Chasseurs the Brandenburg III Corps, marching into battle behind regimental bands, had made a rapid conquest of the Bois de Ville through similar unprotected gaps, enabling the Hessians to swing round against Driant's rear. From this new direction, a mass of some 5,000 Germans now appeared, plainly visible from Driant's command post. Rocket after rocket was sent up to produce a 75 barrage. There was no reponse, but somehow the determined fire of the surviving French machine guns brought to a halt the advance from this flank. Again and again Driant's skilfully sited defence works caught the Germans in a withering cross-fire, inflicing heavy casualties. In the chaos of the devastated wood, the Germans found the going far tougher than expected. ...

The Colonel and his men were eventually overwhelmed and killed, but their stiff resistance to the onslaught helped shake German confidence and delay the offensive by a day, buying the French Army valuable time to reorganize.

Nearby, on Feb 24 (p. 106):

At the village of ********, situated on a strategic rise, and to which Driant had tried to withdraw the previous day, elements of several French regiments fought to the end against repeated attacks. So costly were these to the Germans that the official history compares ******** to St. Privat, one of the bloodiest actions in the Franco-Prussian war. As the Hessians of XVIII Corps closed in on the village the were scythed down by suicide machine guns firing out of concealed cellar apertures, that were only silenced when the houses had been brought down on top of them. To the French defenders it seemed as if the dense German formations were coming in with such rapidity that they were being phsycially swept forward into the French machine guns, by succeeding waves pressing from behind. Casualties among them were enormous. When ******** finally succumbed to this impetus on the 24th, a German lieutenant had to intervene to save the life of the captured French commander from his men, enraged by the casualties they had suffered. ....



Clearly, the battle was not going to be a cakewalk for the Germans, as they had expected. What a pounding both sides took during this epic battle. I read that even today, nothing grows in many parts of the battlefield, where it is estimated that 1,000 shells landed for every square meter. Does anyone know if one can walk through the various woods where the fighting took place, or is it all off-limits because of unexploded shells?

James
02-24-2006, 01:05 PM
Yes. I was there in 1996, and rode a bicycle up the hill from Verdun on the east side of the Meuse to visit the museum, Forts Vaux and Douamont, and the Ossuary. Much of the area is now given over to forests (or it was 10 years ago). The wierdest thing I remember - there were no birds.

Icarus1
02-24-2006, 03:23 PM
I wanted to make my final project work on the university about the battle of Verdun. But when I read myself into the facts, I was getting really sad. After three days I stopped and changed the topic. Because I don't wanted 4 months of reasearch and this bad feeling in the stomach. My grandfather fought WW2, his father WW1. I will do a work on it somedays, but I really have to be in the mood for it, because it was such a massacre with no sense and respect for the human live on both sides.

stonecutter
02-24-2006, 04:14 PM
I know what you mean. The scale of the butchery that happened at Verdun is absolutely sickening, and I too get uneasy when I read about it. And for what in the end.

My great-uncle was a 2nd Lt ? (Sous-Lieutnant), killed by a machine gun in the Bois des Fosses, which is right next to the Bois de Caures. Also my great-grandfather was wounded at Verdun -- shrapnel took off most of his calf. But my father remembers him saying that he held no hatred for the Germans that were opposite them; after all, they were all just a bunch of bakers and cabinet makers, etc, just like the French soldiers were.

SuperShot5000
02-24-2006, 05:08 PM
The scale of the butchery that happened at Verdun is absolutely sickening...


What I find amazing abour WWI is how almost every single battle was a butcher shop.

It's the most interesting war for me, personally.

Atlantic Friend
02-24-2006, 05:17 PM
What I find amazing abour WWI is how almost every single battle was a butcher shop.

It's the most interesting war for me, personally.

Really ? I think the path leading to WW1 is fascinating, but the war itself is like the absolute zero in strategic thought. Look at Verdun, for example : the German plan was just to force the French Army to commit as many troops as possible in a long set-up battle where both armies would collide head-on for months.

WW1 looks like one war where generals didn't have the brains to achieve victory and where politicans didn't have the guts to achieve peace.

stonecutter
02-24-2006, 05:39 PM
WW1 looks like one war where generals didn't have the brains to achieve victory and where politicans didn't have the guts to achieve peace.

On the whole yes, but some generals (Petain, Currie, Monash) were excellent -- Blitzkrieg tactics had already been worked out by 1918 (at Le Hamel for example). And the Germans, unlike the Allies, seemed to have learned more from their mistakes in the war, insofar as not falling into the same trap as often as the Allies did in subsequent actions, and in preparing for the next world war.... I'd argue there were brains, but they were few and far between. Many French officers, for example, who ordered futile bayonet charges into German machine gun positions, should have been hung from the nearest lamp post. Sadly, this never happened.

Atlantic Friend
02-24-2006, 05:41 PM
On the whole yes, but some generals (Petain, Currie, Monash) were excellent -- Blitzkrieg tactics had already been worked out by 1918 (at Le Hamel for example). And the Germans, unlike the Allies, seemed to have learned more from their mistakes in the war, insofar as not falling into the same trap as often as the Allies did in subsequent actions, and in preparing for the next world war.... I'd argue there were brains, but they were few and far between. Many French officers, for example, who ordered futile bayonet charges into German machine gun positions, should have been hung from the nearest lamp post. Sadly, this never happened.

WW1 politicians were lucky not to be hung from lamposts either, given the absolute senselessness of the conflict.

roland
02-24-2006, 06:58 PM
ground
http://nancyetroland.free.fr/public/PhotosMilitaires/wwi/verdun-ground.jpg

soldiers
http://nancyetroland.free.fr/public/PhotosMilitaires/wwi/verdin-vauxsoldiers.jpg
http://nancyetroland.free.fr/public/PhotosMilitaires/wwi/verdun-frenchsoldiers.jpg
http://nancyetroland.free.fr/public/PhotosMilitaires/wwi/verdun-trench4.jpg

hhour
http://nancyetroland.free.fr/public/PhotosMilitaires/wwi/verdun-hhour.jpg

shells
http://nancyetroland.free.fr/public/PhotosMilitaires/wwi/verdun-shells.jpg

stonecutter
02-24-2006, 07:37 PM
http://www.phys.uu.nl/~dbruijn/fotos/verdun02v.jpg
http://www.americansinfrance.net/images/Travel/Verdun_3.jpg
http://home.iae.nl/users/esterren/verdun05.jpg

California Joe
02-24-2006, 10:54 PM
You know, when I was a kid, my brother and I found two boxes of these slide things in the attic of our house. They were dual pictures that you looked at through this goofy viewer thing that had two square eye glass things in it and a slide that you used to focus. They were all of WWI. Dead soldiers, animals, tanks, mud everywhere, gas masks, there was a whole section on Verdun. We looked at them for hours. They probably all burned in a fire we had years later. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? The were called "Stereo......" something.

Christ they were probably worth a fortune.

evanfitz
02-24-2006, 11:10 PM
Sucks that their gone, I would literally die if my grandpa's medals and pistol were to be burnt or destroyed.

James
02-25-2006, 01:04 PM
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8616/douamont15ts.jpg
Inside Fort Douamont, 1996

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/1934/douamont20su.jpg
On top of Douamont

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5918/trench5kf.jpg
Trench of the Bayonets

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting (http://imageshack.us)

tafkaf
02-25-2006, 03:55 PM
You know, when I was a kid, my brother and I found two boxes of these slide things in the attic of our house. They were dual pictures that you looked at through this goofy viewer thing that had two square eye glass things in it and a slide that you used to focus. They were all of WWI. Dead soldiers, animals, tanks, mud everywhere, gas masks, there was a whole section on Verdun. We looked at them for hours. They probably all burned in a fire we had years later. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? The were called "Stereo......" something.

Christ they were probably worth a fortune.

Yes I know what you are talking about. These Stereoscopic images were very common in those days. And, yes they would probably have been valuble.

WolverineBlue
02-26-2006, 04:27 AM
roland -- thx for those pix. Now I will go slit my wrists.

Atlantic Friend
02-26-2006, 01:33 PM
roland -- thx for those pix. Now I will go slit my wrists.

Depressing, isn't it. In this respect WW1 was a bare-faced war, without its usual mask glory and elation.

SuperShot5000
02-26-2006, 10:34 PM
Depressing, isn't it. In this respect WW1 was a bare-faced war, without its usual mask glory and elation.

Even more depressing that WW1 and others, such as Korea, are cast down upon by people and historians.

usafbalad
02-27-2006, 03:37 AM
My German Great-Grandfather fought at Verdun and lost his right lung due to a hand grenade. I wish I had the pictures that were taken of him during WW1 (he also has some of the hospital he was at after the injury)...My Mother has the photos at her house. So maybe next time I'm on leave, Ill try and scan them and post them up here.

I still cant believe that my Uhr-Opa (spelling?) was 19 during that battle.

stonecutter
02-27-2006, 06:41 PM
Check out this interesting picture of a French fighter flown by an American pilot of the LaFayette Escadrille, with the Native swastika.
This site contains descriptions of air combat over Verdun.
http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_War/Air_War/Lafayette_01.htm

http://www.greatwardifferent.com/Great_War/Air_War/Lafayette%20-%20Guerre%20Aerienne%20-%20Lafayette%20Escarille%20001.jpg

Vandervahn
02-27-2006, 07:08 PM
...
I still cant believe that my Uhr-Opa (spelling?) was 19 during that battle.

"Uropa", no "h", no "-".
But with every generation you go backwards, you add a "Ur-". So your Uropas father would be your Ur-Uropa, his father your Ur-Ur-Uropa and so on...

Its the same when you use the formal name of "Großvater" (grandfather) -> Urgroßvater -> Ur-Urgroßvater etc...