Luger pistol question

[Mal3]

This may be slightly off topic. I'm wondering in what state of readiness the Parabellum/Luger pistol was traditionally carried in WWI. Unless I'm mistaken, it could only be carried loaded in three manners, one would be with a round chambered and the gun cocked, either with safety on or off, or with a loaded magazine and an empty chamber. I'm guessing that would have been the preferred manner of most users.

Does anybody have any facts on the matter?

Also, can anybody assist with info on African campaigns involving the Germans in WWI?

[XASA]

Carrying any single action automatic pistol cocked and loaded with or without the safety on in a combat environment is not SOP for any army, so a fair assumption would be that it was carried with a magazine loaded, an empty chamber and the safety on. The Luger is a first generation pistol that will fire if dropped with one in the spout.

The Israelis, who have perfected drawing, chambering and firing single action automatics in one fluid movement, still carry theirs without a round in the chamber more than 90 years after WWI.

For Germans in East Africa start here:

http://www.mgtrust.org/gea.htm

[Scrim]

Good point XASA, although there is a lot of controversy as to the effectivness and practicality of the "Israeli firing technique".

[Mal3]

Whatever the merits of the Israeli technique in question it will be worthless with a togglelock pistol ;)

Thanks for the answers!

[XASA]

Since the Israelis teach using the forefinger and thumb of the weak hand to pull back the slide as you draw the weapon, it's hypothetically possible to do so even with a togglelock. The "technique" takes a lot of practice, so it would be a shame to ruin the value of a vintage Luger. Although the weapon is an antique, it's ergonomics makes it a natural "pointer" and comfortable to shoot. The Germans were aware of its limitations even in WWI, when they issued 32 round "snail" magazines and Lugers with eight-inch "Artillery" barrels to their Stosstruppen.

[Royal]

Carrying any single action automatic pistol cocked and loaded with or without the safety on in a combat environment is not SOP for any army

Depends how you define combat...

It was an SOP for British SF/SD units in the Middle East and Northern Ireland in the 60's, 70's and early 80's to carry the L9A1 (Browning Hi-Power) cocked and loaded (with safety applied).

[Chops]

Yep round up the spout with safety applied is pretty standard for Western SF.

Interesting the mention of the 'Israeli technique'. There's a very in depth piece on it in the current SOF which pretty much tears it to pieces. Never really made sense to me either.

rgds

Chops

[XASA]

Royal and Chops thanks for the feedback Makes sense that SF would carry theirs lock and loaded. When I posted my remark I was referring to conventional military who don't have the training necessary to do so, which is why U.S. forces are armed with the Beretta while many SF operators and SWAT members still use Colts, albeit highly modified ones.

There are pros and cons to the Israeli method, but since they've been using it for decades you can't argue with success. It all boils down to extensive training regardless of how you carry your piece. I'll check out the SOF article

[He219]

Nice Link, XASA.

Does anybody have links to stories of Askaris in WWI Africa? Some time back I heard of a Zeppelin sent down to Von Lettow-Vorbeck for a re-supply mission. Supposedly there are images of this shiny cylinder drawn by Egyptian and other African natives that account for it's journey. Once there, I was told the superstructure was designed to be a huge radio transmitter for cummunications to Berlin. Is this true? Any information is appreciated.

p-)
-He219

[Mal3]

I´m on my gfs laptop now, but I had found some links about the escapeades of von Lettow-Vorbeck and his men that I should be able to find when I get home. Amazing stories!