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View Full Version : Just Say “No” to Israel in NATO



uhramechi
02-28-2006, 02:31 PM
what do you think??



Just Say “No” to Israel in NATO
February 27, 2006
Ivan Eland

Some pundits have used Iran’s apparent quest for an atomic weapon as an excuse to push, with a straight face, the silly idea of inducting Israel into NATO. The idea is not just absurd because NATO stands for North Atlantic Treaty Organization, and Israel is nowhere near the North Atlantic, but because Israeli security has never been better and doesn’t need NATO protection. Furthermore, U.S. security would be undermined by admitting Israel into NATO.

How can Israel be fairly secure when a radical Islamic state seems likely to be seeking a nuclear capability? Israel’s security has never been better, because its existence is no longer threatened by any strong bordering enemy, as it was for years by hostile bordering nation-states. And although Hamas won a majority in the Palestinian parliamentary elections, it is a relatively weak terrorist group that can only occasionally terrorize Israelis with a suicide bombing. Although devastating to the victims and their loved ones, most Israelis are hardened to this fact of life; suicide attacks are a mere pinprick to the Israeli government. Besides, the Israelis could get rid of this manageable security problem rather quickly if they simply traded land for peace and gave the Palestinians a viable state.

Most real threats to Israel’s existence have long evaporated. Israel has been at peace with its most populous and dangerous immediate neighbor—Egypt—for almost three decades. It is also at peace with Jordan, a much weaker Arab bordering neighbor. Syria, the only nation-state bordering Israel that remains hostile, long ago lost its Soviet benefactor. Thus, unlike the Israelis, the Syrians have been unable to modernize their military. Furthermore, Israel, with a much larger economy than Syria, is able to outspend Syria on defense by more than a 10:1 ratio. Like Hamas, Hezbollah, a militant Islamist group operating in southern Lebanon and aided by Syria and Iran, conducts sporadic pinprick attacks on Israel. Hezbollah has won representatives in Lebanon’s parliament and has even shown signs of moderation. Similarly, now that Hamas has control of the Palestinian parliament, there is a possibility that it too might become more moderate.

One of the few possible significant future threats to Israel is Iran. Although advocates of admitting Israel into NATO—such as Ron Asmus, former Assistant Secretary of State for European Affairs under President Clinton—have made much of this threat, they have grossly exaggerated the danger. Iran does not have a border with Israel, making a ground invasion extremely difficult. Besides, Israel has an annual defense budget that is more than twice that of Iran. Although Iran has missiles that can hit Israel and is probably working on a nuclear weapon, Iran will probably not have the “bomb” for five to ten years. Even then, Iran will have only a small number of warheads. Although Israel is coy about its nuclear arsenal, experts estimate that it has 200 or more atomic weapons. This arsenal will long deter any potentially hostile state from unleashing a nuclear attack on Israel.

Because threats to Israel’s security have diminished over time, and Israel is wealthy compared with its immediate neighbors, it does not need NATO protection. NATO membership would obligate the United States—the security guarantor in NATO—and its feckless European allies to help Israel battle Hamas and other radical groups in the streets of Palestine. The United States is already involved in two quagmires in Islamic nations—Iraq and Afghanistan. It doesn’t need to further inflame radical Islamist terrorists around the world by also helping Israel occupy Palestine. If you think anti-U.S. Islamist terrorism is bad now, try waving this red flag in front of the bull.

Thus, admitting Israel into NATO would reduce U.S. security, not enhance it. This bizarre idea should be put to bed at once.

from: http://independent.org
the author: http://independent.org/aboutus/person_detail.asp?id=487

annihilation
02-28-2006, 02:42 PM
I dont think that will ever happen.

Moledet
02-28-2006, 02:45 PM
Hmmm when did we ask to join?

Crassus
02-28-2006, 02:59 PM
If Israel is taken to NATO, I would say that the fall of Berlin wall was small potatoes:roll:

Jani.R
02-28-2006, 03:06 PM
Hmmm when did we ask to join?

And what would you possibly get out of NATO? A lot better for Israel to stay out of it.

annihilation
02-28-2006, 03:45 PM
And what would you possibly get out of NATO? A lot better for Israel to stay out of it.

Alot better if for everyone if they stay out of NATO. Hard enough trying to figure out what NATO is and role in this modern age.

tsuri
02-28-2006, 04:02 PM
Text is strange


if they simply traded land for peace and gave the Palestinians a viable state.
They did that. People ended up voting Hamas.


Israel is nowhere near the North Atlantic
Turkey is so totally bordering the North Atlantic...

Why would the Muslims be even more outraged at the Americans? The are already the biggest Enemy they have ( second biggest?)

alexz
02-28-2006, 07:32 PM
Most European NATO countries would prefer the hamas to join them.

Vandervahn
02-28-2006, 09:51 PM
Most European NATO countries would prefer the hamas to join them.

That is not true.

In his last months Mr Sharon finally did a great service to the reputation of your country.

alexz
02-28-2006, 10:08 PM
That is not true.

In his last months Mr Sharon finally did a great service to the reputation of your country.

To the reputation yes. To the security and Israeli democarcy he did
damage the will take over a decade to fix, assuming it won't get
worst. That also reminds me that our leaders got a Nobel peace prize
for letting a thousands of armed terrorist to set camp next door
and murder and maime thousands of civilians.

tsuri
03-01-2006, 09:05 AM
Most European NATO countries would prefer the hamas to join them.

The same European Nations that call Hamas a Terrorist Organization and refuse to give aid to it?

But yes I would not want Israel in NATO. It would make things complicated and they could not contribute in case of Defense as they need all their troops to defend the existence of their country.

dangerclose
03-01-2006, 10:49 AM
Most European NATO countries would prefer the hamas to join them.


x2

Why would Israel want to join NATO when they could kick NATO's @ss themselves?

haschmich
03-01-2006, 11:02 AM
that will never happen because the jews wont aggree to nonproliferation treaty and other international aggreements required to join nato. besides the nato would lose all credibility and trust to muslim countries, which are very important strategic partners today.

haschmich
03-01-2006, 11:03 AM
x2

Why would Israel want to join NATO when they could kick NATO's @ss themselves?
hehehehehe, thats funny :)





talking about israelian megalomania..... ;)

Wodan
03-01-2006, 11:23 AM
hehehehehe, thats funny :)





talking about israelian megalomania..... ;)

yeah, USA alone could kick israels arse...

Macabi
03-01-2006, 12:31 PM
that will never happen because the jews wont aggree to nonproliferation treaty and other international aggreements required to join nato.

'The Jews'?

Prefer to call it Israel.

Israel has enough on their mind fighting for their existence. The IDF was created to DEFEND Israel and nothing else. I don't see any benefits of Israel joining the NATO.

perdurabo
03-01-2006, 03:42 PM
Alot better if for everyone if they stay out of NATO. Hard enough trying to figure out what NATO is and role in this modern age.
hmm let me check
main role of NATO is common defence of all countries that signed threaty, if one country is attacked other will help. So you are saying that NATO countries never ever will be attacked in future??

S'13
03-01-2006, 04:02 PM
hmm let me check
main role of NATO is common defence of all countries that signed threaty, if one country is attacked other will help. So you are saying that NATO countries never ever will be attacked in future??

I guess he's saying that there's no guarantee that if one of the NATO members will be attacked, that the others will come to its aid.

I tend to agree.

alexz
03-01-2006, 04:16 PM
The same European Nations that call Hamas a Terrorist Organization and refuse to give aid to it?

But yes I would not want Israel in NATO. It would make things complicated and they could not contribute in case of Defense as they need all their troops to defend the existence of their country.

They call it a terrorist organization but they will give them money.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000085&sid=aLbUCm7nqNPE&refer=europe

They even pay for agency that proudly employe hamas terrorist
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=17656&Cr=Palestin&Cr1=UNRWA

Israel activlty serves as a NATO member as far as the US is concerned, in the last few
years they US militery was assist by Israel more then some NATO countries that
have troops on the ground. And NO, I won't go into details.

remo williams
03-01-2006, 04:23 PM
hmm let me check
main role of NATO is common defence of all countries that signed threaty, if one country is attacked other will help. So you are saying that NATO countries never ever will be attacked in future??

i have to admit on this subject i've been tragically mis/dis-informed..I was under the impression that israel was in nato.(but i know what my 1st amandment rights are).the main reason for this impression is the support the united states has pleged to defend israel if it was attacked.(GW1-scuds) and with the current iran shyte talk crisis...with the us being a main member of nato,and supporting israel in event of attack,nato would by defacto,be supporting israel.Is part of the resentment by some over the issue of israel getting support while not being a member?or is it just old beef w/a little anti-semitism?

alexz
03-01-2006, 04:34 PM
i have to admit on this subject i've been tragically mis/dis-informed..I was under the impression that israel was in nato.(but i know what my 1st amandment rights are).the main reason for this impression is the support the united states has pleged to defend israel if it was attacked.(GW1-scuds) and with the current iran shyte talk crisis...with the us being a main member of nato,and supporting israel in event of attack,nato would by defacto,be supporting israel.Is part of the resentment by some over the issue of israel getting support while not being a member?or is it just old beef w/a little anti-semitism?

X2
At the moment it's Israel that help the US and I'm sure they would come to help israel if the situation was reversd.

perdurabo
03-01-2006, 04:36 PM
attack on iran will be just like attack on iraq, US wasn't attacked so every nato member can choose if they like to go to war or not. Other thing would be when USA or any NATO member would be attacked by Iran then this country would be flattened, you would see all power that "western" world has in work. Attack on Israel is just attack on Israel since it isn't in NATO or in any other organisation, but prabably US would help Israelis also meany other nations would send help ......if asked but i doubt Israelis would ask help they have fine military and can handle their problems well.

tsuri
03-01-2006, 04:40 PM
They call it a terrorist organization but they will give them money.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...E&refer=europe
This is still paid to the old Government.

The UN Agency employs Palestinensians, there will be some Hamas members with that. Even though they don´t deserve the money imho, it still won´t go to more to terrorist organizations under the Hamas Govt than under the old rulers.

I know what Mossad is capable of, it is just that NATO is a Military Treaty and those tend to count tanks and troops ;)

Pille1234
03-01-2006, 05:07 PM
Israel activlty serves as a NATO member as far as the US is concerned, in the last few
years they US militery was assist by Israel more then some NATO countries that
have troops on the ground. And NO, I won't go into details.
wohoo <playing X-Files Music>
Someone with inside knowledge giving meaningful hints on an internet forum, but refuses to go into details because they are oh so secret. If that doesn't make an Internetanonymous trustworthy I don't know what does. :roll:

alexz
03-01-2006, 06:43 PM
wohoo <playing X-Files Music>
Someone with inside knowledge giving meaningful hints on an internet forum, but refuses to go into details because they are oh so secret. If that doesn't make an Internetanonymous trustworthy I don't know what does. :roll:

It's not that top secret and many Israelis civilians are exposed to it
almost daily.
I just don't think details are nessacary.

alexz
03-01-2006, 06:44 PM
This is still paid to the old Government.

The UN Agency employs Palestinensians, there will be some Hamas members with that. Even though they don´t deserve the money imho, it still won´t go to more to terrorist organizations under the Hamas Govt than under the old rulers.

I know what Mossad is capable of, it is just that NATO is a Military Treaty and those tend to count tanks and troops ;)

I don't understand the connection between the Mossad and NATO.

tsuri
03-01-2006, 07:06 PM
I don't understand the connection between the Mossad and NATO.


Israel activlty serves as a NATO member as far as the US is concerned, in the last few
years they US militery was assist by Israel more then some NATO countries that
have troops on the ground. And NO, I won't go into details
What else would you mean by that if not Intelligence Agencies?

alexz
03-01-2006, 09:23 PM
.


What else would you mean by that if not Intelligence Agencies?

Logistics.

sp2c
03-02-2006, 07:46 PM
so what, your submariners get to take the best conventional submarine warfare course in the world!

that's just how the world works, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, nothing sinister about it

IwoJima
03-24-2006, 06:31 PM
Israel doesn't need to join NATO.
Jewish lobby is very resourceful and influential. They know where and how to find a friend and most important how to use them.