US pilots fly on speed?

[Elmo]

Although this is old news already, couldn't find a thread about this...sorry if one still exists...

Need for Speed: Going to War on Drugs

When Tom Cruise uttered those famous words in the Hollywood blockbuster, ‘Top Gun’: "I feel a need, a need for speed", he would not have known that his words had already been taken literally by the U.S. Air Force, in a way he could never have imagined.

In the latest Jamie Doran documentary, ‘the need for speed’ exposes how the Pentagon has been issuing a concoction of mind-altering drugs to its soldiers and airmen, resulting in the deaths of allied forces, innocent civilians and, almost certainly, their own men.

Trailer to be seen at: www.acftv.net

[Salty Dog]

uggg what?

[Midav]

I am sure most militaries use "go" pills of one form or the other.

It's something that has gone back to WWII.

When long arduous missions are flown, where the pilot can't hand the stick to someone else or isn't able to walk around, they pop back some pills to keep them awake and aware.

Not easy to fly 8+ hour missions.

Btw, these drugs are not used for standard day to day operations.

[wholagun]

wasn't the pilot (shmidt) the guy that dropped the bombs on Canadians doped up on this stuff and got little to no sleep and was on these pills and messed up by dropping bombs on the Canadians.

[Durandal]

Old News and Nothing New...

This is something used by a bunch of militaries (not just the United States). This is not to causally toss away the thread, but I am not too sure there is much you can do about, especially when you are NEEDED to fly many sorties in single 24 hour period or keep your eyes open all night.

[Fioraon]

Military uses drugs all the time...

[Seraphim]

Military uses drugs all the time...

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/photos/armydrug_board.jpg


17 Afghanistan-bound soldiers test positive for drugs

VALCARTIER, QUE. - Seventeen soldiers at the Valcartier military base in Quebec have tested positive for illicit drug use, scuttling plans to send them to Afghanistan.


"The chain of command is now taking appropriate preventive measures to ensure the safety of troops deployed in Afghanistan," Lt.-Col. Bernard Ouellette, acting commander of 5 Canadian Mechanized Brigade Group, said in a statement.

Urine samples submitted by two other soldiers not bound for Operation Athena in Afghanistan also showed signs of drug use.

All 19 soldiers face disciplinary measures that could include dismissal from the Canadian Forces, the Department of National Defence said.

Acting on a tip, military police used drug-detecting dogs to search lockers and offices at the base this week. They found and confiscated a small amount of drugs.

A total of 29 soldiers in the 3rd Battalion of the Royal 22nd Regiment submitted urine samples to be tested for a variety of unspecified drugs. Ten of the samples were clear of drugs.

[George W. Bush]

They're not there to get high and **** around. They know their performance and lives of others depend on them being awake.

[Durandal]

I remeber in 1990, I was riding back from a FTX ina Duece with the rest of ROTC unit from Ohio State. We were all talking about the Michigan/OSU game the day before (the battalion...yes, battalion...we had three uunderstrength companies in Army ROTC at OSU...command listened to the game while we were out doing Land Nav...blah).

Anyways, typcial college sports stuff.

I was an MS2 (Sophmore) at that time.

Our Platoon Commander lines over to his Sgt and talks about scoring a quater bag in time for a party later that evening.

I was floored and a little bit pissed off. Had it been me now I would have probably handled it a bit differently. Drugs were everywhere then I found later that summer...

I was super salty, but did nothing and dimply waited my time till he rotated up or got kicked out.

Seriously, my unit platoon commander, right then and there, gave me a huge reason NOT to trust him or his command...WTF.

Now, I know this doesn't happen everywhere...probably not even with most the troops....just an example of my little corner of it.

[Sleeping Sun]

I saw that document on tv last night too where this USAF major or something was being interviewed and he said that the use of amphetamine is totally safe for the pilots. They also interviewed pilots who flew in Afghanistan and Iraq. One of them said that he was so high that he had just started dancing and singing to himself in the cockpit of his jet while on a mission. They also interviewed a US special forces soldier who said he was part of some super secret SpecOps unit. He's face was covered and voice changed so that his superiors could not recognize him. He told that they were regularly given drugs and under their influence he had killed women and children and participated in other brutalities. No wonder some of them had flipped and killed their family members after returning to the States. Both the pilots an sf soldiers said that they had these states of tremendous fear during the missions and weeks after them because of the use of amphetamine and that because of them they had done many things that they wouldn't do in normal state of mind.

[Dalleer]

Damn, so this thread was created after that program that was aired here last night....

[spectre5]

Didn't it say in the program that they use the drugs volunteery? But most of them used it and those who didn't got sacked.

Wicked I should say. Why don't they give those drugs to commercial pilots, is it because it ****s up their head?

t.
Antti KOrpela

[Sleeping Sun]

Didn't it say in the program that they use the drugs volunteery? But most of them used it and those who didn't got sacked.

Yeah, they showed the paper the pilots had to sign. It was mentioned six times that it is voluntary, but at the end of the paper it said something like - If the pilot does not take the drugs the squadron commander (or whatever) may decide that the pilot becomes a threat to the succesful completion of the mission and will there by not participate in the mission. In other words he would be grounded. Quite a blow to a fighterpilot.
It was also interesting to find out that during the first Gulf War 60% of american pilots used amphetamine. And also that after the war the air force had to ground whole squadrons because the pilots had become addicted. Like one of the F-16 pilots said- the use of the pills was not controlled in any way. And that some of them ate them like candy, on and off the missions.

[Sabre]

With an air force the size of the USAF, there should be no need for combat missions to be routinely flown whilst taking amphetamines. Maybe as a stopgap solution they are warrented, but routine taking of amphetamines is dangerous.

Common side effects experienced are headache, nausea, and insomnia. Other effects include low mood, loss of concentration between doses. In the long term; loss of concentration, depression, rhabdomyolysis(breakdown of muscle fibers), myoglobinuria, acute renal failure, and metabolic disturbances within the brain leading to mood disorders to name but a few.

The Israeli special forces use various drugs to control alertness (and their bowels) when manning OPs. There should be no need for this if your drills are correct. Our lads would be happy to man an OP 24/7 for up to a month, without the need to take any drugs to improve perfofmance. With the correct rotaion of sleeping, eating and working, alertness is maintained.

Even with such stimulants as 'Pro Plus', I have seen how they can be detrimental. Once the effect of the drug has worn off, the result is an even more knackered soldier than before! No use at all on the battlefield, and a liability more likely. There should be no excuse for proper rest to allow time to recover from ops. this should be especially feasible with the air force.


=====EDIT!!!! Note the typo. Just to prove my point, I have had only 5 hours sleep in the last 60.......================

[usa320]

Theres a big difference between the Canadian troops illicitly using drugs to get high, and American pilots using uppers to stay awake on 10+ hour nightitme bombing missions.

[Resevoir Hogs]

I've heard of this a while back.

What are the advantages of giving fighter pilots speed anyways?

[Seraphim]

I've heard of this a while back.

What are the advantages of giving fighter pilots speed anyways?


So they can stay awake for long periods of time.

[DPGLAW]

What is the big deal if a soldier is smokin a joint or taking some painkillers, etc. while not on duty? If you are in a combat zone I can't see ANY reason why you would want to take illegal drugs, it probably WILL get you killed. However, I do not see anything wrong with using uppers and downers for pilots flying long missions, some else said "it's not like they can hand the stick to someone else or get up........" I can understand the need for a little help in keeping alert

[Sleeping Sun]

I do not see anything wrong with using uppers and downers for pilots flying long missions

1. Then why don't the commerial pilots use them. They usually fly a lot longer flights.

2. While taking them the fighterpilots tend to become a bit edgy...


...and drop the bombs on their own people


...which is not good... :(


Taking uppers and downers one after an other for a while is what junkies do in the streets. Like I said earlier - The USAF had to ground whole squadrons after the first gulf war since the pilots had become addicted to amphetamine.

[Fox2]

2. While taking them the fighterpilots tend to become a bit edgy...


...and drop the bombs on their own people


...which is not good... :(


Taking uppers and downers one after an other for a while is what junkies do in the streets. Like I said earlier - The USAF had to ground whole squadrons after the first gulf war since the pilots had become addicted to amphetamine.

Other than the infamous incident in Afghanistan involving our Canadian allies, can you name any incident of fratricide committed by a US military pilot that was attributed to the use of drugs?

[Hav218]

Its not crack, pot, meth, whatever. This medicine (Hold on, I'll tell you) was issued to soldiers for the War in Iraq, to keep them awake, alert, and aware when they needed it. It can't substitute sleep, but it can extend your working capabilities. It has other uses in the civilian market, such as Fire Fighting, EMT, Police, etc. Its called 'Provigil'. Apperantly, civilians need a Rx to get some, but talk to your doctor if you are really interested.

[Javehn]

The Israeli special forces use various drugs to control alertness (and their bowels) when manning OPs. There should be no need for this if your drills are correct. Our lads would be happy to man an OP 24/7 for up to a month, without the need to take any drugs to improve perfofmance. With the correct rotaion of sleeping, eating and working, alertness is maintained.

There is a hard , addicting drug that i myself and many other of my mates used it in army , in order to keep ourself to fall asleep . It's called , one second , you ready ??
It's called : Black cofee . rofl
And by the way , smoking some **** , or taking some drugs in Operation is totally bull**** in any army , and the soldiers do that in they own inniciative . Those must be punished and kicked away . What someone do in their own free time , is his own bussiness , but not when he does it during "work" .Energy tablets AREN'T drugs .

Offcorse , i bellieve that in any army have some different types of soldiers , and some of them do use drugs . In my place , the soldiers that found positive on drug test , or found drugs , get into the hands of Military Police , and they are not nice guys at all . I bellieve something like that is in all armies . Thow after reading some stuff about Canadian Army , those guys do turn it into some fassion . :|

[Ice14]

First of all, I am totally against the use of "street drugs" anywhere... especially in the military. They DO have long term effects, despite what junkies say.

The drugs that the gov't hands out to troops, airmen, and seamen are not the same. If controlled properly (which I guess they weren't) they can make the operator above average for sustained periods of time... which is the reason for their use. All they do is make a person that much better at what they do. Unfortunately some people decided to abuse the drugs.

The military using pills is not wrong. It is the same as taking sinutab before a hockey game to open up your airways... it gives you that much more endurance, making you better than the competition.

[Midav]

I agree. It's not wrong to use pills that make you stay awake longer.

As said, many aircraft missions can last 8-10-12+ hours.

That's ok if you do it here and there. But, during a time of war when sleep is not as available, sometimes pills are the best alternative.

Not like the pilot can get out and stretch or hand off the stick heh

[usa320]

Some missions involved flying from Missouri, To Kandahar and back. THats more than a day of flying. The pilot needs to stay awake.

We arent talking about smoking a blunt before flying. We are talking about taking a MEDICALLY APPROVED AMOUNT of a AIR FORCE APPROVED NARCOTIC. It keeps the pilots awake, and alert.


Why don't they give those drugs to commercial pilots, is it because it f*** up their head?


No. Commercial pilots for one thing dont need to be as alert as combat pilots. They arent in harms way, and the entire flight above 5,000 feet is done by the autopilot. Also, Commercial pilots can drink coffee, and most overseas flights have a 3rd pilot on board and they rotate after 8 hours.

[Midav]

Have to remeber, commercial pilots can get up and walk around, because they have the space and they have a co-pilot.

They can switch on and off.

Same goes with bomber pilots.

Fighter pilots, on the other hand, don't have that luxury.

[James]

When I was in highgh school (many years ago) my girlfiriends dad was a U.S. Army surgeon. He was deployed during Desert Shield/Storm. He told me that the Field Hospital had speed to keep the doctors awake if they had to perform 24+ hours of surgery. All it does is keep one awake. It does not help one make good judgement calls. It is a long proven psychological fact that people need at least 4 hours of sleep during a 24 hour period in order to maintain good judgement.

[martinexsquaddie]

speed may keep you awake but clounds your judgement

[Sleeping Sun]

Other than the infamous incident in Afghanistan involving our Canadian allies, can you name any incident of fratricide committed by a US military pilot that was attributed to the use of drugs?


In Saudi-Arabia 1991. An American A-10 pilot killed nine British soldiers by firing Maveric-missiles at their armored vehicles while they had stopped their column to strech their legs. The pilot of the A-10 was warned off by a RAF Tornado flying nearby. When firing the missiles the A-10 was close enough to recognize the vehicles to be british, but yet he was convinced they were a threat to him and fired.
Tony Blair promised the British parliament that the pilot would be brought to the UK for hearing, but that never happened.

[Fox2]

In Saudi-Arabia 1991. An American A-10 pilot killed nine British soldiers by firing Maveric-missiles at their armored vehicles while they had stopped their column to strech their legs. The pilot of the A-10 was warned off by a RAF Tornado flying nearby. When firing the missiles the A-10 was close enough to recognize the vehicles to be british, but yet he was convinced they were a threat to him and fired.
Tony Blair promised the British parliament that the pilot would be brought to the UK for hearing, but that never happened.

But was it proved to be the result of energy tablets or speed?

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

I can tell you for sure taking any sorta caffeene pills/speed or "energy" drink definately has an effect on your body. Sure you are awake for the next 5-6 hours and should have enough energy to keep awake, but the negatives on the body isnt exactly pleasant.

Try not sleeping for a good 4-5 days to see what I'm talking about, then make sure your taking your caffeene pills or energy drinks. You actually start seeing things that arnt there....

[Javehn]

Enegry tablets isn't considered to be a drug . It is actually pretty good thing (mostly it's just consentrated cofein ) , on some circumstances . About the halusinations , it is probably from the lack of sleep , and have nothing to do with the tablets . And it would be very hard to bellieve , that any sane army in the world would give changing mind state drugs to it's soldiers , like speed , or extazy . But what is the problem with Energy tablets ? Nothing wrong .

[ßå$tĮТHÏ¿ð]

Enegry tablets isn't considered to be a drug . It is actually pretty good thing (mostly it's just consentrated cofein ) , on some circumstances . About the halusinations , it is probably from the lack of sleep , and have nothing to do with the tablets . And it would be very hard to bellieve , that any sane army in the world would give changing mind state drugs to it's soldiers , like speed , or extazy . But what is the problem with Energy tablets ? Nothing wrong .

Obviously you've never taken caffeine pills or any of the like before. They keep you awake, therefor your body doesnt get to rest. The side effect is hallucinations caused by lack of sleep, if you dont believe me go down to the local store and buy as many redbull energy drinks, or go to a health food store and get some energy supplements and take those and you'd know exactly what im talking about.

[Javehn]

mate ,i know perfectly well about Energy pills and Redbulls (goes fine with Vodka ) , and i said the same thing like you , i ussualy don't like to write about things i don't know . Yea , why my English is so crappy , that no one can understand it ? And don't steal , government hate competition .

[Sleeping Sun]

But was it proved to be the result of energy tablets or speed?

It was proved to be resulted by the use of amphetamine.

[Sabre]

Some missions involved flying from Missouri, To Kandahar and back. THats more than a day of flying. The pilot needs to stay awake.

The aircraft on the CAP that bombed the PPCLI was operating out of an in-theatre base.



We arent talking about smoking a blunt before flying. We are talking about taking a MEDICALLY APPROVED AMOUNT of a AIR FORCE APPROVED NARCOTIC. It keeps the pilots awake, and alert.

He, he, he...you'd be suprised at what becomes 'approved' in time of conflict. (just because they are the big guys doesn't meant they've got it right, just look at gulf war syndrome)

[Sabre]

Sleeping Sun wrote
In Saudi-Arabia 1991. An American A-10 pilot killed nine British soldiers by firing Maveric-missiles at their armored vehicles while they had stopped their column to strech their legs. The pilot of the A-10 was warned off by a RAF Tornado flying nearby. When firing the missiles the A-10 was close enough to recognize the vehicles to be british, but yet he was convinced they were a threat to him and fired.
Tony Blair promised the British parliament that the pilot would be brought to the UK for hearing, but that never happened.


But was it proved to be the result of energy tablets or speed?

It was also proven to be the result of A10 pilots not knowing WTF a british vehicle looks like. cf: carbopn copy incident in the Iraq war.[/quote]

[Fox2]

It was also proven to be the result of A10 pilots not knowing WTF a british vehicle looks like. cf: carbopn copy incident in the Iraq war.

That wasn't the question and is rather irrelevant to a discussion about the effects of drugs on pilots. :P

[Sabre]

That wasn't the question and is rather irrelevant to a discussion about the effects of drugs on pilots.

I know, it just pisses me off. (my OC was out in the Gulf in the RRF, not a happy chappy) I know what a warrior looks like, and I know what a BMP looks like, both from very far away...do you? I should think a pilot who's job it is to ID these things then attack correct targets should. Unless of course his job is just to attack whatever he sees.

[RomanS]

Why is always THE BAD NEWS is brought to us by cocks from
Poland
Finland
Sweden
Norway

it seems that you guys have nothing better to do there, than dig out some fake ass trash, and **** on USA, Russia and Israel.

WHY ?

[Sleeping Sun]

Should we all just ignore things like this and shut up?!

[usa320]

Guys theres a monumental difference between Caffine found in No-Doze pills and Red Bulls, **** even in Mountain Dew... and the uppers that pilots used.

But that doenst mean they just pop pills to get a buzz. They pop a certain amount that the doctor tells them too.

[Sleeping Sun]

But that doenst mean they just pop pills to get a buzz. They pop a certain amount that the doctor tells them too.

The pilots who flew in Afghanistan said the use of the amphetamine pills was not regulated in any way. -In the morning we would walk in to the infirmary and asked for as many of them as we wanted. Some of the guys had about twenty of them all the time.

PermskiiOMON
Everything has two sides. Things that might put the U.S., jews or Russia in a bad light are there wheter you like it or not. We bring these things up so that you would realize it too in your own cool fantasy world of cool spec ops and cool guns.