looking to purchase rifle [Archive]

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I'mOnlyHalfPolish

03-03-2006, 06:01 PM

I think I might be in the market for an "assault" rifle of some sort. Sorry for the word usage, but I could not think of a better word to use to describe. In other words a high capacity semi-auto civilian rifle...better?

My only experience is with an AR-15 in .223, but I think I would like something with a little more kick, perhaps the venerable .308? I am not snubbing my nose at the AR but just curious about different opinions.

This would be my first rifle purchase and am curious as a beginner what some good guns to look into might be and what manufacturers would be good as well. If i had to set a budget I'd say maybe under $1500 US, but if need be up to $2000 US. Also rounds and gear upgrades because I know everyone here tricks the guns out for performance and ergo's and accompanying costs if you know. I'm more or less looking for something fun to shoot, thats not a pistol, shotgun or .22. Thanks.

ed316

03-03-2006, 06:05 PM

Get an AK at this place it's only $400.

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/expand.asp?Prodid=234

Or a Springfield M14. I only shot these like 4 times in my life and I wish I had 2 grand to spare.

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

03-03-2006, 06:19 PM

nice, ive always wanted to buy an AK...are romanian AK's good quality, I obviously know to avoid chinese versions etc...haha. also ive never purchased a weapon online, obviously you have to make an arrangement with an FFL dealer, how much do you think they'd ask for in order to receive it for me through them? but $400 wow!

good call on the 14 though, ive given some serious thought into purchasing one because from what i hear they're fine weapons...thanks ed

ed316

03-03-2006, 06:22 PM

Go to a gun store and tell them you are buying a gun online they will do the whole transfer thing for you. Of course they have a fee. Every gun store I know of will order it for you. Just tell them.

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

03-03-2006, 06:25 PM

ok...sorry for replying twice to you here, but do you know of the availability of the 7.62x39 round? is there an American equivalent round? or do you have to purchase the round from overseas?

ed316

03-03-2006, 06:28 PM

Well here in Houston,TX. you can pretty much get them anywhere. That caliber is pretty much everywhere in America.

Geezah or Durandel would know more about this then I.

onefast93z28

03-03-2006, 06:54 PM

I can find surplus 7.62x39 in just about any gun store here in Florida (though I don't own anything that shoots it, 7.62 just always happens to be by the surplus .30-06 ;). If I had your budget I'd go with a Springfield Armory Inc. M1A

Also, I'd buy a lot of ammo before I would do gear upgrades, best to be able to use the basic rifle very well then upgrade what YOU think needs to be upgraded IMO.

DrMom

03-03-2006, 07:13 PM

If your gonna go with an AK, the chinese dont make bad ak's at all, Romanian Ak's are the worst on the market. You should either go with the superbly made Bulgarian ak's made by Arsenal, or for a cheaper price, some kit AK's built on american receivers. If i were you, with that large a budget, I would be going for some of the nicer rarer collectibles like, say, a Galil or FAL. These are both great weapons and you will be envied by most of us. If u like older semi automatic rifles, i'd go with an m1 garand over an m14, but im a ww2 buff so its biased. there are G3 clones which cost around 800. Most deals ur going to find are online, even though i've never purchased a gun online. You should head over to gunshows and check some out. both 7.62 russian and 7.62 nato are readily avaliable all over the USA. SO here are my recommendations summed up, since ar15's are out of the picture. For Ak47's: Bulgarian Ak47, or a Norinco MAK90, or any kit builds like Polish m70 underfolders and whatnot.

M1 Garand: A nice kick for ya, superb accuracy, may cost a bit more to shoot, but u'll be shooting alot less with an 8 round magazine

Galil: kinda hard to find, but worht it if u can get one
FAL: Kinda like the galil, both are 7.62 nato

and i forgot, if u want probably the best, nicest civilian assault rifle, there is ths Sig Arms 55-, i forget the last number of the model, but its that one on counterstrike for the terrorist...but this is going to cost u 2000 dollars. As i said, i doubt u want to spend that much on ur first rifle, but stating a 2000 dollar budget just gets my mind going with so much sh!t u can buy...check out steyr augs too, hell! buy some silencers and sh!t and some machinegusn@!!!! ahhh god i gotta stop

California Joe

03-03-2006, 07:20 PM

Most gunshops around here will do a transfer for you for 20 or 25 bucks. Not bad. Check locally.

crinkler

03-03-2006, 07:23 PM

Ak or just go the AR route. Ar route you can always go full auto for $10k later on our you can easily go sbr.

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

03-03-2006, 08:49 PM

what are the mechanical differences between M1A and the M1 Garand...? I know that some are just newer...but what makes them different? And what are some advantages/disadvantages of each?

LaoSexMachine

03-03-2006, 09:09 PM

M1A and M14 are the same rifle basically. They can be gucci out pretty good and it's magazine fed. It's a .308. The standard one is 44 1/2 in. long. If you get the SOCOM one it's much shorter. It has a 20 shot capacity. it weighs 8 lbs.

M1 Garand is 30-06 and it's not magazine fed. clip loaded with only 8 shots. It's 43 in. long. it weighs 9 pounds IIRC.

I myself would prefer the M1 Garand.

onefast93z28

03-03-2006, 09:11 PM

Really not to much (the M14 is full auto the civve version is called the M1A) The M14/M1a is just an evolution of the M1. The M1 uses an 8 round en bloc clip that is loaded from the top, while the M1Ahas a 20 round detachable magazine (10 in states with mag limits). The M1 is a .30-06 and the M1A is a .308.

If you do want an M1 look into the CMP (www.odcmp.com) good prices, fast shipping (right to your door, no FFL dealer required) and good rifles. Out of all the rifles I have shot my M1 is my favorite. Unfortuntly imageshack won't let me upload anything right now or I'd post some pics for you. Springfield Armory Inc. makes an OK M1 but it runs around $1000 and mostly has used parts. Mine is a real USGI Springfield from 1945 tha cost me $375 with $20 shipping :)

The M1A is pretty good, a lot of people perfer the 20 rounds to the M1's 8 but that's really the only high-point (besides .308 being a little cheaper).

I can tell you all you want to know about M1s, but my knowledge of M1As is a little short. I've shot them but never owned one.

Edit: I guess Ezekiel beat me to it.

Seraphim

03-03-2006, 09:42 PM

DSA FAL or a Armalite AR10

onefast93z28

03-03-2006, 10:07 PM

Ok, Imageshack is working again:

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/8898/dsc01544mod7bn.th.jpg (http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01544mod7bn.jpg)
My M1 with a loaded en bloc clip

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/5784/dsc01719mod6gw.th.jpg (http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01719mod6gw.jpg)
My M1 on a m1950 paratrooper case

LaoSexMachine

03-03-2006, 10:13 PM

Onefast, thanx for the link. I think I'm going to order one. Always wanted a Garand.

jpg

03-03-2006, 10:15 PM

This is one of those "What exactly are you using this rifle for?" momements.

If you want an all around firearm that can be very accurate, has available accessories and ammunition is cheap, get an AR-15. AK's are nice, but when you get bored of blasting away at 25', you will try to get 1" groups at 100 yards. A good bushmaster 20" AR-15 will do this. You also have the option of getting several uppers to fit your needs.

Don't discount a SIG556. At $1300+ it could be a little too pricey.

My current regular usage rifle is an HK93 with PSG-1 trigger group, iron sights, HK bipod and 40-round magazines. I don't mind the extra weight. It will run all year round, while most AR-15's can't make that claim.

I assume this is a "for fun gun". If it is for personal protection or War, get an AK. it's not pretty, accurate or comfortable, but it goes bang every time.

JPG

ramy

03-03-2006, 10:16 PM

FAL / M1A / AR-10

I do not know if these will fit your budget though. I am not following the firearms costs in the US that much...

onefast93z28

03-03-2006, 10:21 PM

Onefast, thanx for the link. I think I'm going to order one. Always wanted a Garand.

No problem, go for a field grade they seem to be good lately (mine is a USGI field grade). Check out the Garand forum on battlerifles.com for some more info on the CMP.

Got my M1 and a 1903A3 from there.

DrMom

03-03-2006, 10:53 PM

No problem, go for a field grade they seem to be good lately (mine is a USGI field grade). Check out the Garand forum on battlerifles.com for some more info on the CMP.

Got my M1 and a 1903A3 from there.

the one u have, why does it have those numbers scratched into the wood, were those the one given to the greek army?

onefast93z28

03-04-2006, 03:09 AM

It's not scrathed, it's just paint. I believe it is an old army stock number similer to how you will see numbers on M4 stocks today. My M1 is not a greek return it is USGI. My 1903A3 however is a greek return and does have a number scrathed into the stock.

Mine is one of a very few M1s I have seen with a stock number.

ZoneOne

03-04-2006, 03:58 AM

TacoDelRio

03-04-2006, 03:59 AM

As far as Romanian AK's go, I've shot a SAR-1 (AKM, 7.62 M43). I hit the 55 gallon drum everytime at 300 meters, offhand shots at 200m rapidfire were right on target, so long as I kept my discipline and did my half of the deal. It's durable, works good, reliable, etc. Finish was the usual, nothing fancy, it's a hammer that makes noise.

I'd personally buy an aftermarket stock set, whether it be some high speed crap, or just polymer stocks, as the stock was loose as hell.

EDIT: I don't own one, just shoot it on occasion.

agcsy

03-04-2006, 05:32 AM

I would get an AR-10 (7.62) or and M14

Whatever you do, don't buy a Romanian AK - For some reason ppl actually think they got a great deal, but they are terrible.
Chinese and Russian are the only way to go on an AK - it's that simple

There's a lot of options out there.. but I'd say keep it simple and go w/ an AR-10 - You've already got experience w/ the AR-15 so you are familar with it's handling (I hope) and the AR-10 would be easy to get used to.
I own a DPMS Lr-308 and I love it. Wouldn't trade it for the world.

Your 100% wrong about Romanian ak's. The SAR series rifles are excellent. They are not the prettiest looking rifles but mechnically there is nothing wrong with them.

Where are you going to find a Russian ak? The only 100% Russian built imported "ak's" are the Saiga series of rifles. While they are excellent you will have to do alot of modification on them to get them to resemble a traditonal ak as they come set up as a low cap rifle with a different style stock set and no pistol grip. The avalability of them is also very limited at the moment. The importer for them was changed and as far as i know no new 7.62x39 saigas have started coming into the country yet. Due to this their retail price has gone from $160 to any where from $300-500 for a non modified Saiga.

The most commonly available ak's on the market now besides kit builds are

1 Romanian WASR and SAR rifles. The wasr is a low cap rifle that is sold either in the low cap config or in a modified configuration that allows it to accept high cap mags. The wasr is a great entry level beater ak. It will shoot and you can treat it like crap without it giving you any problems.

The sar began life as a high cap rifle and is no longer imported. If you have the chance to get a sar for under $300 jump on it because as it stands no one knows if more will ever be brought into the country. The wasr and sar come in 3 variants. The WASR-10, 2 , and 3 The SAR-1, 2 , and 3. The 1's are 7.62x39. The 2's are 5.45x39. The 3's are 5.56x45.

Right now 7.62 and the 5.45 mags are very easy to get at low prices. The 5.56 mags have always been rarer and usually run in the $15-20 range.

2 The second is the Chinese ak's and variants. Though they havent been imported into the country since 1989 there are usually several up for sale at any given time on most gun forums.

The Chinese ak's are a good gun and unless they are a preban or in a rare config they can usually be found in the $300-350 range. Chinese ak's come with 2 receiver types. There is the crescent cut and the straight cut. If the receiver is crescent cut it will not be able to accept the tradional ak stock without some massive modification. Chinese ak's also come in many different configs. There are under folders, side folders, fixed stock and they also come in various barrel lengths.

They come in 2 calibers. 7.62x39 and 5.56 though the 5.56 is much harder to find and will usually cost alot more than the 7.62 version.

3 Arsenal of Bulgaria rifles. The Arsenal rifles are IMO the best ak's on the market right now. Everything about them is excellent except for the price. Expect to pay alot for an arsenal ak.

They come in 5.56, 7.62x39, and 5.45. They come with wood or synthetic stocks. They are also available as a folder or fixed stock.

These are the most common complete rifles on the market.

There are also kit built guns on the market made by various gun smiths and there are a few large companies that sell kit guns. The 2 largest are Armory USA/Global trades and Century Arms.

Armory USA rifles sell in the $500+ and they look nice but i have read about more problems with these rifles than any other ak.

CAI at the moment is turning the yugo kits into complete guns. I dont know much about them but i dont believe they are more than $400. I would be wary of them though the yugo ak kits were hit and miss quality wise. The barrels are not chrome lined and corrosive ammo was used in them. Alot of people received kits with barrels that looked more like sewer pipes.

This is by no means a comprehensive list as there are many other companies and smiths out there building ak's. There is also a few other countries that imported ak's but they usually demand a premium price.

Now onto the FAL side of the house . If you are looking for a 308 you cannot go wrong with an FAL. You can get a new DSA FAL for around 1k-1.3k USD. Mags are cheap and easy to find. The gun is reliable and while not a match rifle it is accurate. Or if you want you can build your own FAL. They are incredibly easy to assemble. Everything screws together there is no welding or rivets to worry about. With the help of a friend i built a beater fal for under $500.

Right now i own 3 SAR-1's, 1 WASR-10 high cap, 1 SA-M7s, 1 SLR-104s, 1 custom built AK-74 using a buldg kit and a oow receiver, 1 norinco ak, and 1 hungarian SA85m. All perform the same the only difference is the way they look.

I also own a DSA fal and 3 kit built guns. Again all perform the same the only difference is how they look with the DSA coming in third and my beater last.

TacoDelRio

03-04-2006, 06:03 AM

Shotgun News has some retailers selling Russian AKM's, I think made by Izhevsk (Might be wrong, whatever). More expensive, I think about $650, but a good rifle nonetheless.

Chops

03-04-2006, 11:31 AM

ABNINF

03-04-2006, 11:58 AM

A 10-22 or a Marlin model 60 would be great for starting rifles. The Marlin would be my pick, but they're both good rifles.

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

03-04-2006, 01:35 PM

[QUOTE=I'mOnlyHalfPolish]

You don't really sound like a 'gun guy'- if you've never got any good trigger time in I'd recommend the Ruger 10/22- learn to shoot first before getting some sexy selective fire rails gun...Worry about hitting the target before dropping 2k on DSA's latest *** machine...

C

no, no...i dont know much about field stripping weapons and upgrades but im not a stranger to a rifle...my only experience with anything beyond a "hunting rifle" was with the AR...sorry so im not good with lingo etc...

so im not going to rush out and buy the first thing i see, but i know when i bought my last gun, i came on here and asked some opinions etc...and was pointed in the right direction and am extremely satisfied with the purchase. plus .22's are pretty fun and i hear rugers are great but im looking to step it up a notch haha i already have a little .22 rifle. im not looking to do anything stupid or get a retarded expensive rifle or one i cant handle, just something good to transition from hunting rifle to a more military style rifle with a higher cap.

so i appreciate the advice and appreciate the advice of everyone else, but like i said, im more or less going to get on here and get some op's, make a list of what to check into and see where i can go from there.

but i will admit im not a "gun guy" so good call

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

03-04-2006, 01:39 PM

A 10-22 or a Marlin model 60 would be great for starting rifles. The Marlin would be my pick, but they're both good rifles.

have the 60 already with a cheap low power scope for plinking

ABNINF

03-04-2006, 02:26 PM

Good deal, well, have fun then;-)

DrMom

03-04-2006, 03:23 PM

[quote=I'mOnlyHalfPolish]

You don't really sound like a 'gun guy'- if you've never got any good trigger time in I'd recommend the Ruger 10/22- learn to shoot first before getting some sexy selective fire rails gun...Worry about hitting the target before dropping 2k on DSA's latest *** machine...

C
money doesnt grow on trees, why waste money on a crap rifle to "learn" how to shoot, when u can buy a fvcking awesome rifle and learn to shoot with it. I hate it when people always suggest taking a firearms course and the like to people who are asking to buy firearms, i know it doesnt pertain to u, just thought i'd vent.

back on topic, if ur gettin an ak, dont venture into the 5.45 calibers, as u stated ur looking for something with kick, and 5.45 ammo is alot harder to find than 7.62R, and it has equal recoil to a .223

Durandal

03-04-2006, 03:42 PM

Actually, for 1500.00 to 2000.00 you could roll several firearms...

Get a decent (used) Garand for about 800.00 and an AK.

Or if you want a lot of guns...

Something like this:

SKS @120.00
AK @ 400.00
Savage FP10 Bolt Gun 400-500.00

And to round it off you could go two gun route with the rest:
12ga Shotgun (Remington 870 for instance) 250-375.00
Ruger 10/22 (100.00 to 150.00)

Or the pistol route...
Single Pistol up to 700.00 depending on how much used stuff you get...

If you get 'em cheaper you still have money left over for cases, cleaning equipment, and ammo, maybe even some accessories.

Depends on how you want to spend your money..one or two REALLY good guns, or half a dozen, reliable, good guns.

Gun types are simply listed to give you an idea of what you can get, not so much because I recommend them...

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

03-04-2006, 05:51 PM

durandal, yeah ive actually been considering spending the money on perhaps two rifle instead of just one sexy one...or a rifle and a pistol, although the police should be returning a 9mm to me in the next couple of months but currently dont know the condition of the weapon.

do you or anyone else know anything about the CMP (thanks to onefast93z28) , i was looking at their ridiculously priced M1's and i just dont know seems like too good of a deal although they are on backorder for the field grade rifles...anyone know anything about this? $395 seems ridiculous, the only hitch other than wondering the quality of weapon youll get, is the marksmanship requirement...makes me wish i wouldve paid the damn state fee to get my CCL which i never paid after the course!

also i should point out that i would like something for plinking but wouldnt be opposed to something for personal defense since i was robbed a few weeks ago for stuff that was worth a LOT of money, although i was not present when this happened. i want something i could reach out and touch someone with, b/c my 870 is beyond effective range past 20 feet or so. the barn is about 150 yds from the house which was what was robbed. im thinking shotgun for the house, rifle for distance and power (which im thinking i want next), and eventually a pistol, which im holding out on yet...

so basically i want a rifle i can shoot for fun but if need be and i hope ill never ever have to hold a gun to someone in a threatening manner (im a civilian) but if need be i would be prepared. but if my life or family/friend life threatened then i wouldnt hold back.

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

03-04-2006, 05:57 PM

also if anyone wants to PM me feel free! i give permission to all!

Durandal

03-04-2006, 05:59 PM

do you or anyone else know anything about the CMP (thanks to onefast93z28) , i was looking at their ridiculously priced M1's and i just dont know seems like too good of a deal although they are on backorder for the field grade rifles...anyone know anything about this? $395 seems ridiculous, the only hitch other than wondering the quality of weapon youll get, is the marksmanship requirement...

CMP is great way to get a cheap M1, though it may need some restoration work. Maybe you should consider another source or a different grade. THose Dutch M1s with the heavier barrels are fairly nice too.

also i should point out that i would like something for plinking but

10/22. probably the best plinking rifle out there (along with the AK and SKS p-) )

wouldnt be opposed to something for personal defense since i was robbed a few weeks ago for stuff that was worth a LOT of money, although i was not present when this happened. i want something i could reach out and touch someone with, b/c my 870 is beyond effective range past 20 feet or so. the barn is about 150 yds from the house which was what was robbed

Unless you have a barrel with a choke in the end, shoot slugs and get ghost ring sights. 100 to 150 yards just like a rifle with some kick. Seriously, I have an 18" Nova and I can shoot and hit a man sized target at close to 200 yards...nothing like an ounce or two of lead hitting you traveling at 800 ft per sec.

Oddbod

03-04-2006, 09:02 PM

A lot depends on what the rifle is intended for.
For ranges over 300yds, 7.62x51 will beat 7.62x39 & any 5.56 round for kinetic energy values.
The M14/M1A is inherently more accurate than the FN-FAL but a damn' sight more expensive as far as magazines & initial price goes.
The FN beats it hands down on ergonomics & reliability.
If you're looking for a TEOTWAWKI rifle, then the FN is better.
If it's target shooting & hunting, then the M14 & derivatives thereof win.
If you want to customise, then the FN is once again the better platform.

(OK, so I'm biased, having been issued with the L1A1 in the real world).

Chops

03-04-2006, 10:12 PM

money doesnt grow on trees, why waste money on a crap rifle to "learn" how to shoot, when u can buy a fvcking awesome rifle and learn to shoot with it. I hate it when people always suggest taking a firearms course and the like to people who are asking to buy firearms, i know it doesnt pertain to u, just thought i'd vent.

Ignorant ****.

wiking

03-04-2006, 10:17 PM

lucky bastards. I can't own a M1 Garand :-(

I could own an AR15 though, if i was a member of the right clubs and all that (you have to actually have a REASON to own a set type of weapon in Norway, and plinking is not one of them. Unfortunately.)

But new laws are on their way, and maybe, just maybe, the M1 Garand and the M1A can become legal for hunting and such. And if it is, then a Garand will be my first purchase. The new laws also implement a "Hunting Wardrobe" as they call it, where you may own up to 8 weapons for hunting purposes without actually having to go through lenthy aplication prosesses.

Before trying to own more than 1 weapon in the same caliber was difficult, and to say own more than one caliber 12 shotgun or more than one rifle in .308 was scetchy at best. Some police stations would say yes right away, others would say straight out no, and some would spend a few months with a 50\50 chance of going either way. With the new rules, which hopefully go through, we'll be able to buy up to 8 weapons with no lengthy aplication. Guess it will be "Go into police station - say you want that and that in adition to your X number of other guns - get the OK - buy it and have fun" And of course, this does not limit us to 8, it's just to simplify the life and workload of the police and hunters, since most hunters wont have 8+ weapons.

well, rant over, good luck on your shopping, and send a compasionate thought to us poor bastards who can't own fun stuff :-(

wiking

03-04-2006, 10:19 PM

Chops

03-04-2006, 10:33 PM

[QUOTE=Chops]

no, no...i dont know much about field stripping weapons and upgrades but im not a stranger to a rifle...my only experience with anything beyond a "hunting rifle" was with the AR...sorry so im not good with lingo etc...

appreciate the advice and appreciate the advice of everyone else, but like i said, im more or less going to get on here and get some op's, make a list of what to check into and see where i can go from there.

but i will admit im not a "gun guy" so good call

Ah rock n roll then mate- I'd go for a 7.62 myself- FAL or M14/M1A as a few have mentioned- Oddbod highlights the differences well above. If I had the money a FAL would be my choice.

Durandal makes a lot of sense in his post- an AK derivative and a Garand would make a lovely pair.

C

onefast93z28

03-04-2006, 10:38 PM

LaoSexMachine

03-04-2006, 10:51 PM

I don't understand why the European governments don't trust their citizen with guns. Car accidents kill more people then guns her in America. no one is looking to ban them.

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

03-04-2006, 11:55 PM

The marksmanship part isn't a big deal, just get your loacl rangemaster to sign the form on the CMP website saying you shoot.

Trust me the CMP is the way to go if you want an M1.

im so ready to do this right now its not even funny...

Oddbod, the venerable FAL, yes i see this weapon at the local gun store here and ive always wanted to ask about it...so it is chambered in .308 winchester though, correct? i might have to go look this week...

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

03-05-2006, 12:00 AM

yeah chops, M1 and AK...mmm nice

and wiking my norwegian friend sounds like you picked the wrong continent to be born on...too bad your politicians couldnt listen to ezekiel

so many decisions and so little money for everything! actually ive saved up a bit of money with this purpose in mind, just havent gotten the gusto to go research, look around/fire some, and buy. but thanks to all for the continued advice!

wiking

03-05-2006, 12:01 AM

I don't understand why the European governments don't trust their citizen with guns. Car accidents kill more people then guns her in America. no one is looking to ban them.

They trust us with them, but were one of the few.
But hell, if the gun-ban nutters got their wish, there wouldn't be a gun left in the US either. Guess most european nations have been unlucky with their choice in politicians. :)

To derail this thread a bit more (sorry to the thread starter) the main problem that opposes gun clubs, firearm ownership and hunting in Norway now is not politicians, but a lack of unity. There are many diffrent organisations, there's NJFF (Norwegian Hunting and Fishing Organization), a host of diffrent pistol branches, black poweder, "Practical" shooting and god knows what more.

And the attitude that is here, though not very strong, but still dangerous, is "Doesn't matter if they ban that, our members will never need or don't use it, so it doesn't hurt us and our members". And to have such an attitude means that the smallest and weakest organization will end up having the weapons they use banned, and then it'll go on and on untill we're as unarmed as the rest of Europe.

Personally i'd like to see a NRA-like organization that encompased ALL and ANY clubs and organizations that had the shooting sport as part of or their whole basis. One organisation that promotes all, and not just hunters or pistol shooters or black powder groups or practical shooting. But i fear it would be considered horribly politically incorrect, and borderlining dangerous in todays political climate here in Norway.

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

03-05-2006, 12:01 AM

sorry for the triple post here, but onefast, you got anymore pics of your M1...?

also anyone else have pics of their rifles posted?

onefast93z28

03-05-2006, 05:08 AM

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/4835/dsc01531mod9iq.th.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01531mod9iq.jpg)

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5136/dsc01730mod3aj.th.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01730mod3aj.jpg)

How did that 1903A3 get in there ;) M1 with the M5 6 inch Korean war era bayonet:
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1489/dsc01713mod4yj.th.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01713mod4yj.jpg)

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5638/dsc01543mod6lu.th.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01543mod6lu.jpg)

Just after opening the box, no cleaning was done for this picture:
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/4104/dsc01519mod6nl.th.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01519mod6nl.jpg)

M1s from the CMP come with the web sling that I have on it (the m1907 leather sling is much better) in the second picture, one en bloc, the manual, and a safety flag. I also have vids of me firing it if anyone can host them or you just want them in an email.

Seraphim

03-05-2006, 05:36 AM

Shes a beaut!

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

03-05-2006, 06:23 AM

wow absolutely gorgeous onefast...although ive been drinking tonight, i will PM you later if that is OK...

Oddbod

03-05-2006, 09:26 AM

im so ready to do this right now its not even funny...

Oddbod, the venerable FAL, yes i see this weapon at the local gun store here and ive always wanted to ask about it...so it is chambered in .308 winchester though, correct? i might have to go look this week...

The FAL is chambered in 7.62x51, rather than .308win.
Commercial ammunition gives a slightly higher chamber pressure than milsurp.
The dimensional differences are minute & the ammunition is interchangeable for the most part. The FAL is OK up to 168grains but above that, the rifling twist rate wont fully stabilise the bullet & cartridge OAL may be too long.

onefast93z28

03-05-2006, 09:17 PM

Ok, I got a few PMs requesting more shots of my 1903A3 so here they are....

My 1943 M1903A3 right outta the box:

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/7559/pa030012mod1uk.th.jpg (http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pa030012mod1uk.jpg)

After some cleaning:

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/8979/dsc01833mod3pm.th.jpg (http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01833mod3pm.jpg)

Some of the ammo I feed my M1 and 03-A3:

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/7807/dsc01839mod6gh.th.jpg (http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01839mod6gh.jpg)

1903A3 with the M1905 16 inch Bayonet (works on the M1 too):

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/1268/dsc01837mod0xg.th.jpg (http://img396.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01837mod0xg.jpg)

One more of the M1:

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/3329/dsc01711mod1kl.th.jpg (http://img119.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01711mod1kl.jpg)

Durandal

03-05-2006, 09:19 PM

What a great rifle...

onefast93z28

03-05-2006, 09:29 PM

Yeah I love my WW2 US weapons. I'm looking for an M1 carbine and a M1903 next.

wiking

03-05-2006, 10:02 PM

So, here are onefast93z28's M1 Garand and M1903 videos.

M1 Garand (http://www.norwegianwiking.be/video/MOV01556.MPG)

M1903 (http://www.norwegianwiking.be/video/MOV01642.MPG)

I'mOnlyHalfPolish

03-05-2006, 10:40 PM

niiice cant wait to get mine, once i follow through on the 2 requirements

thanks wiking and onefast

onefast93z28

03-05-2006, 10:50 PM

Thanks for hosting the vids Wiking, can't believe how old those vids are,lol. Gotta take new vids when I get a chance. Make sure to post up some pictures of your rifle if you end up getting one.

Randomrokottaja

03-06-2006, 05:06 AM

About those weapon bans talked earlier, could anyone tell and describe gun laws and license customs in other european countries?

What kind of laws and customs are being used for example in Sweden, Norway, Germany, France, Switzerland, Poland etc. etc? I'm just curious.

wiking

03-06-2006, 05:24 AM

Well, I know that in Denmark they require a licence even for swords :) (Blade-collector licence or something like that)

But here's my favourite Norwegian fvcked-up law: i said i can't legally own a garand, but that's not really true. I could own a Garand with a collectors licence, but getting a collectors licence.....

The laws are based on need, if you can prove, or atleast convince the coppers at the firearms department, that you need it, then you can own it.
So, a hunter may apply for various weapons, they must be within set laws and rules (barrell and overall length, no folding stock, impact energy must be within a set standard for diffrent animals).

So, then there's those who shoot in pistol clubs. That's even more difficult, but so long as you know the system, and yer local firearms department is OK, you'll be the one ahead. (Meaning you get what you want and need by following the rules, not breaking them).

So here comes the collectors licence bit, with a collectors licence you can own anything. rifles, SMG's, so-called "Assault rifles", MG's, and you can own it all both live and legal. To get a collectors licence you must have a collection. That means weapons exempt of registration (rifles prior to 1870-something or 1880 something, pistols and such prior to 1860-something or about that, though the new laws suggests weapons created prior to 1890 or thereabouts). So if you want to collect WW2 rifles, u have to spend a while collecting this first. :roll:

The common and most accepted rout is through a organization called something like "Norwegian historical weapons association". Guess what, they are a privat organization run on borderline freemason style. You have to be invited by a member, you have to attend meetings as a guest for a year or so, and then you MIGHT get to join. That's even if you can find someone who'll invite you.

So membership in this semi-closed society is part of what collectors licences are issued on. Nice isn't it. :-( :-*$ I'd like to punch the bastard who made that rule in the face.

jerka71_1

03-06-2006, 05:55 AM

wiking

03-06-2006, 06:00 AM

I reckon it is a GREAT LAW not to let anyone who just "wants" a weapon, to bee able to get a firearm.

Trust me, there is no way in hell anyone without dedication to hunting or competetive shooting can get a gun in Norway.

jerka71_1

03-06-2006, 06:07 AM

Trust me, there is no way in hell anyone without dedication to hunting or competetive shooting can get a gun in Norway.

I do trust you! But why should they get a gun?

Randomrokottaja

03-06-2006, 06:08 AM

"But here's my favourite Norwegian fvcked-up law: i said i can't legally own garand, but that's not really true. I could own a Garand with a collectors licence, but getting a collectors licence....."

Sounds damn bad. If i would like to buy a garand in Finland, i just apply for "licence to buy" for a "rifle, operation code 3" (self-loading) and explanation "i want to shoot", and i just live almost in your neighbour.

Garand would be a nice rifle but calibre isn't the cheapest to shoot. 7.62x51 would be better.

"but getting a collectors licence....."

Yes.... Not the easiest thing to get.

Oddbod

03-06-2006, 10:55 AM

I do trust you! But why should they get a gun?

Because it's pretty hard to shoot game or targets without one;-)

Durandal

03-06-2006, 10:57 AM

Because it's pretty hard to shoot game or targets without one;-)

rofl rofl rofl

Randomrokottaja

03-06-2006, 11:36 AM

I do trust you! But why should they get a gun?

Why not?

I don't think so that things would get totally *censored**censored**censored**censored*ed up if Norway had similar weapon laws and licence customs to finnish ones, which have proven themselves very well working ones.

How about IPSC and other practical action shooting genres? Are they allowed or totally banned among the weapons which fit that purpose?

wiking

03-06-2006, 11:42 AM

Why not?

I don't think so that things would get totally *censored**censored**censored**censored*ed up if Norway had similar weapon laws and licence customs to finnish ones, which have proven themselves very well working ones.

How about IPSC and other practical action shooting genres? Are they allowed or totally banned among the weapons which fit that purpose?

AR15's like Bushmaster for example are legal :roll: that's the funny thing. I know a Norwegian who lives in Texas, he hangs out on this Norwegian hunting and shooting forum. Like he puts it, "the texans still laugh of the stupidity of it whenever i tell them i own 2 (or is it 3) AR15's, but i cant own a M1 Garand or a M14!".

Randomrokottaja

03-06-2006, 11:54 AM

AR15's like Bushmaster for example are legal :roll: that's the funny thing. I know a Norwegian who lives in Texas, he hangs out on this Norwegian hunting and shooting forum. Like he puts it, "the texans still laugh of the stupidity of it whenever i tell them i own 2 (or is it 3) AR15's, but i cant own a M1 Garand or a M14!".

Doesn't make any sense or atleast sound pretty politician's decision. What makes M1 Garand or M14 more dangerous than an AR15? They don't even have black polymer parts which are in many countries a sign of the true-evil.

How about legalicy of G3, AKs and FN-FAL -variants? Are they forbidden too?

wiking

03-06-2006, 12:05 PM

Doesn't make any sense or atleast sound pretty politician's decision. What makes M1 Garand or M14 more dangerous than an AR15? They don't even have black polymer parts which are in many countries a sign of the true-evil.

How about legalicy of G3, AKs and FN-FAL -variants? Are they forbidden too?

It's just a very old rule that meant the Garand and M1 carbince was illegal for hunting (semi-autos weren't comercially available back then, and the Army was still using the Garand) so once the DFS (Volunteer shooting association) dropped the M1 carbine (and possibly the Garand if they had it) there just was no form of legal reason to own it. Remember what i said about need? That's why it's illegal. More or less. There's no competition program where it is legal.

But if, and hopefully when, the new laws get accepted (which is something i pray for every damned day) then we'll be going towards a more Finish system, and also, any weapon legal in another Schengen country, will automatically be legal here. So that means LOTS of fun guns that for weird reasons have been made illegal can get legal. The Walther G22 (if anyone knows it) was made illegal for hunting a few months after it made the Norwegian market some years back, no reason really, guess it just "looked dangerous".

Randomrokottaja

03-06-2006, 12:16 PM

It's just a very old rule that meant the Garand and M1 carbince was illegal for hunting (semi-autos weren't comercially available back then, and the Army was still using the Garand) so once the DFS (Volunteer shooting association) dropped the M1 carbine (and possibly the Garand if they had it) there just was no form of legal reason to own it. Remember what i said about need? That's why it's illegal. More or less. There's no competition program where it is legal.

But if, and hopefully when, the new laws get accepted (which is something i pray for every damned day) then we'll be going towards a more Finish system, and also, any weapon legal in another Schengen country, will automatically be legal here. So that means LOTS of fun guns that for weird reasons have been made illegal can get legal. The Walther G22 (if anyone knows it) was made illegal for hunting a few months after it made the Norwegian market some years back, no reason really, guess it just "looked dangerous".

So somewhat association decides what is necessary weapon and what is not? Doesn't still make any sense, specially when remembered that the leading characters in those associations have their own personal interests/opinions in the game and that has it's own small influence in laws.

Assault rifles and handguns for hunting purposes are not reasoned anywhere else than in somewhere 3rd world's country, but for action shooting genres (IPSC + variants) and other sporting, yes.

Geezah

03-06-2006, 12:49 PM

I'll offer my experiences with calibers in the .30 range.

MY WASR-10 was my first rifle, even though I had shot in the past and owned an Air Rifle as a teenager in the UK, it's not a bad rifle to start out on, as many have highlighted above.
It was cheap, a beater and 7.62X39 surplus ammo is cheap and at one point was plentiful,I have heard there will be plenty more available soon.

AIMSurplus is the place for an affordable AK, with all the evil features,
AK-GPWASR NEW AK WASR 7.62x39 RIFLE (http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/NEW_AK_WASR_RIFLE_w__Bayonet_Lug___Muzzle_Break.html)

They have an underfolders in, which are choice

AK-M70AB2 Yugoslavian AK M70AB2 7.62x39 Under-Folder Rifle (http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Yugoslavian_AK_M70AB2_7.62x39_Under-Folder_Rifle.html)

or you could get an RPK?;)

AK-AES10 Romainian AES10 RPK 7.62x39 Rifle (http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Ronamian_AES10_RPK_7.62x39_Rifle.html)

AIM is a great place to deal with, and I try and throw as much business their way.

I have shot the Garand, I loved it and plan on getting one from CMP probably when my car is paid off in a couple of years, too many firearms, not enough money.
I have shot a Norinco copy of the M1A, again like the Garand I loved it, I found it shot well, but the way I am, I like to add all the bells and whistles so it may be a long way away before I look at an M1A.
I have shot a Cetme, this was nice and the H&K(as I understand it) is modelled off of this design, great shooter and very comfortable.
Now with the FAL, I wanted to enjoy shooting this so much, but the thing kicked the crap out of my cheak bone, for some reason I don't know if it was my cheak weld, but it hurt, so I doubt I will look at one of these anytime soon, but that is my experience, where as so many others love them.
Best thing to do is get out there and try and shoot a few before you make any choices.

Edited to add, you could always look at a M1 Carbine, those are pretty sweet?

He219

03-21-2006, 01:00 PM

Hmm SIG 556 (http://www.sigarms.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=35&productid=114)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/AP/af13bf1a.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/AP/e9031a19.jpg

QTRMOA

04-04-2006, 12:26 AM

If you are willing to wait a month or two I would look into the 6.5 Grendel in the Ar-15 platform.
The 6.5 has has close to the same ballistics as the .308 and is in a Ar-15 platform instead of the Ar-10 platform (you will know what I mean if you have had to hump an Ar-10 much) Using standard Ar-15 mags you will have a capacity of 28 rounds (?) and effective range out to 600-900 meters with a very accurate bullet (high bc).
Wolf ammo will be releasing their 6.5 match ammo as of anyday now.
From what I understand Wolf will be using a brass case and sealed primer. I have also heard rumors that the match ammo will run around $7 a box of 20.
If the Wolf ammo can hold MOA out to 600 meters with a 20" barrel I think you will be seeing alot more of the 6.5G in the future but I guess time will only tell.