MoH to Tony Blair???

[96B]

I dont know if any of you guys have heard about this but I heard on Fox News that Tony Blair was being put up for receiving the Medal of Honor? It said for supporting the war and playing a vital role in the victory or something to that effect. I dont know if I misunderstood anything but I am pretty sure that is what I heard. First off I thought that only goes out to #1 military folks and #2 Americans....

Has anybody heard anything about it? If so, what are your thoughts on it?

[cut]

sbs have been put up for MoH after afghanistan..

http://www.ukun.org/xq/asp/SarticleType.17/Article_ID.620/qx/articles_show.htm

[fng]

Tony Blair is being honored with the "Ellis Island" Medal of Honor, an award for civilians versus the Congressional Medal of Honor, the US's highest military award.
I read somewhere that all ranks, even generals, have to salute anyone wearing the CM0H and the wearer is the first passenger on and off of a military aircraft.

[96B]

Thanks for clearing that up man!

[Apogee]

Yeah, you do salute MoH winners, no matter who they are.

[fng]

I had a hard enough time scanning peoples rank to know how to address them. I can't imagine having to scan everyones fruit salad to know who to salute, especially in places like the passenger terminal at Andrews AFB.

[Apogee]

There aren't exactly alot of Medal of Honor Winners, especially ones who are still active. So if one was around you would know who he is. That and the Medal of Honor is worn around the neck.

[Zach R.]

has anyone heard the story of Matt Urban?

[fng]

Are you sure? On those ribbon charts there is a ribbon for the CMoH that is light blue with white stars. Do they wear them at the same time?

[Dave.mil]

I don't know what you read about Tony Blair on your side of the pond,here the man is a joke of the worst kind. As an example he came to power on the slogan "tough on crime tough on the causes of crime" we have a man in prison here(Tony Martin) for shooting a burglar in his house. These were two career criminals who had committed hundreds of crimes between them. Mr martins house had been broken into a few times and the Police could not respond because they are too busy with "other things" so the man protected himself and his property. One of the crooks then attempted to sue for compensation for injuries he recieved during the break in and it actually got to court before being thrown out. We are also spending millions of pounds on a public inquiry into the shootings of some TERRORISTS by the British Army in 1973 in Londonderry Northern Ireland the outcome will be if any fault is found on the British side the IRA(TERRORISTS) will no doubt sue the government. If no fault is found it will be a cover up. No Inquiries are to be held into the MURDER of British soldiers, their wives and children by the IRA TERRORISTS. The fact he is claiming to support a war against terrorism is a very selective war where he gets status as a world leader, don't kid yourselves he's just as slimy as any other politician. Don't get me wrong I fully agree with supporting America in the war but if anybody deserves a medal it is not Tony Blair.

PS he was/is a member of CND

[cut]

I think you're a bit harsh on him. There are a lot of things you can criticise him for in internal affairs, but for his work abroad it's hard to fault him. And that's what he's getting the medal for, more precisely for his support after 9/11, if americans choose to reward him for that it's fine by me.

[Dave.mil]

It's easy to support other's when it's not your arse on the line. Just about any British leader would have supported the US post 9/11 as we have done for each other many times in the past. To win a medal of any type should reqiure something special not just doing what you would do anyway.

[Sabre]

Dave.mil:

Don't compare the actions of members of the Parachute regiment on Bloody Sunday with Tony Martin.

The fact is that Tony Martin shot dead the 16 year old kid (career criminal?) when he was running away, OUTSIDE his house. The shotgun blew half his back off.

My relatives live in some crap places and have had numerous break-ins, they don't like it but they leave it up to the police to sort it out. Often they fail, that's life.

Martin was a nutter, he had removed steps on his stairs to trip intruders and turned his house into a fortress. Maybe he could have installed security lighting like the rest of us, but he wanted to cause them harm. I am annoyed that he only got done for manslaughter, not murder. He clearly intended to kill/injure the boy as he had (if he legally stowed his shotgun) unlocked the arms locker to get his gun, then unlocked the ammo locker, loaded the weapon and chased the lads before firing an aimed shot. If that's not pre-meditated, what is? There was both Actus Rea and Mens Rea, guilty act and guilty mind.

The Paras came under fire and retaliated. They are a teeth arm unit and did their job. I have no doubt that unarmed civilians were killed. That sort of thing happens when you get involved in a rally organised by terrorists. The fact that some weapons were found nearby suggests the IRA were interupted in removing arms from the fallen, to make it seem to be a massacre.

The IRA can't sue the government because as you say, they're terrorists! The last place they would ever want to be would be a British courtroom. Because they would be on trial for their crimes.

I agree that Tony is a joke, most british politicians nowadays are. The pattern goes:

1-Campaign for lots of really good policies
2-Get elected on the basis of your promises
3-Break them
4-Do what you want for two years
5-Call an election and spend the next two years leading up to it making it look like you've done loads without actually doing anything
6-Get re-elected...please?

[Dave.mil]

Hey Chill out I was not comparing Bloody Sunday with Tony Martin I was using two examples of many of why the present British Government is a pile of crap, thanks to them we live in a politically correct society that has lost sight of what is right or wrong. I fully support the Para's in what the did the fact tony blair sanctioned an Inqiury in the first place shows how he will pander to placate the IRA(whatever name it uses) They will not be able to sue? Martin Mcguinness by his own addmission was the IRA commander in Londonderry in 1973 and now he's an MP who are you kidding? If you claim to be supporting a war on terrorism you cannot be selective on who are terrorists.

[Sabre]

Martin McGuinness could sue the government and anybody he likes.

The IRA can't because they are a terrorist group and anybody who represents them would be arrested charged with their various crimes.

Maybe they could sue someone eventually, but only after they had served their scentences.

[Dave.mil]

I don't want to get into arguments about legallity i'm no lawyer. But ther is no way Tony Blair deserves a medal. If the American's want to thank the British for supporting them (which as I've said I don't think we deserve because we would have supported them anyway and rightly so)then maybe an award to the country as a whole as happened with Malta during WW2(I'm not saying Britain deserves anything as grand as a gallantry medal but you get my point) as opposed to an individual who's aims are far from good.

[cut]

? Martin Mcguinness by his own addmission was the IRA commander in Londonderry in 1973 and now he's an MP who are you kidding?

I'd rather have him as an MP then have people killed by bombs.

why is your "arse on the line" because of the current government?

[Dave.mil]

Would you have Saddam in the UN.

My Arse was'nt on the line this time but it has been many times because of politicians. We had Rules of Engagement which were constantly tightened by political interference when I served in Northern Ireland They(the terrorists) did'nt. I also served during the first Gulf War.

[Sabre]

As far as the government go, it's the same pattern all the time.

Tony had to change 18 years of conservitism and if labour are not re-elected the new party will have to change 8 years of labour efforts.

The whole thing is rather futile and not predisposed to getting anything worthwhile done efficiently or fully.

When you have to think about getting re-elected in a couple of years the focus is on the short-term quick-fix. It can't be productive.

If you think about it, for someone to get the benefit of a 'new' education, he/she would have to have spent at least 16 years in full time education do do so. That's 16 years for results, good or bad. It's much easier for them to lower the grade boundaries for A level etc to get what looks like better results.

The reality is that the standard of education is dropping, and has done no matter who was in power. Universities now have to extend courses to bring students up to the level of knowledge of past years. This is worse than progress, it's regression.

It's worse for the NHS. Chronic illness is the biggest drain on funds and guess what? They're chronic, so it takes a long time to see any benefit of increased spending.

Even if there is improvement, it doesn't look good. Take HIV/AIDS, according to sensationalists in the media there are far more people HIV and AIDS than before. That's right.

Not because vastly more people are getting the virus, but because we are better at keepin those with HIV alive. More people have it because less people are dying because of it.

People like tony aren't bad just because they lie to us, but because they believe their own lies. That's dangerous.

[Sabre]

Woah, took me a while to write that last one so I didn't keep up.

Yeah, giving one man a medal for what is ostensibly the courage of a group of others is not right.

[Dave.mil]

Well I got ther in the end

[Sabre]

True, I agree with you on the medal front. It's just political showboating. I doubt Chirac will be regretting his stance because he didn't get a medal.

[Dave.mil]

You never know when I was serving we used to have swingers and clinkers(medals) Chirac might be peeved if he's not a clinker when he's running Europe.

[martinexsquaddie]

I particularly liked Blair being prepared to pay the "Blood price"
SOoo you coming with us then boss?

[Redford]

I thought the Moh should not send to Tony but QE2 ;) ;)

[Royal]

? Martin Mcguinness by his own addmission was the IRA commander in Londonderry in 1973 and now he's an MP who are you kidding?

I'd rather have him as an MP then have people killed by bombs.

Jesus H - Osama Bin Laden for Congress then???

[cut]

? Martin Mcguinness by his own addmission was the IRA commander in Londonderry in 1973 and now he's an MP who are you kidding?

I'd rather have him as an MP then have people killed by bombs.

Jesus H - Osama Bin Laden for Congress then???

yeah go on then he's be an easy target


but seriously, I think osama couldn't firstly because he has no place in american affairs and he doesnt represnet anyone.

Martin Mcguiness represents the will of people in northern ireland who would rather be part of ireland. having him in government albeit only the northern ireland assembly shows that there is freedom of speech in this country. If the police had anything on him he would be in jail.

this is the only way you can get peace and still have it your way (in this case northern ireland is still part of th UK)

this is the way to get peace and that's why things are looking good in N.I. and terrorism against israel and the US is just getting worse because they are still trying to go down the violence route.


I would even say martin mcguinness is a good politian, and any of you who reffer back to the troubles are just refusing to move on and accept the future.

[front]

Well said cut.

Dave.mil?

"I fully support the Para's in what the did the fact tony blair sanctioned an Inqiury in the first place shows how he will pander to placate the IRA(whatever name it uses)"

You can't support the Paras in "what they did" during Bloody sunday as no-one knows really what happened. That is why there is an ongoing Inquiry at the moment.

It was not set up to placate the IRA but set up to establish whether the serious allegations that the rule of law was ignored on that day by the British Army is true or not.

Let me make this clear in no uncertain terms. 13 people, British Citizens were shot dead on the streets of Britain by British soldiers and the initial investigation, inquiry, and report into the events of that day has time and time again been discredited by most of those involved including soldiers who were there that day.

These allegations came about, and came to light, over the years by the statements from the soldiers concerned which conflicted with the official report (Lord Widgery report) which followed an investigation in the events of that day in the 1970s.

Tony Blair stated quite simply in Paliament:

"The time scale within which Lord Widgery produced his report meant that he was not able to consider all the evidence that might have been available."

and

"Since the report was published, much new material has come to light about the events of that day. That material includes new eye-witness accounts, new interpretation of ballistic material and new medical evidence."

and finally:

"Bloody Sunday was different because, where the state's own authorities are concerned, we must be as sure as we can of the truth, precisely because we pride ourselves on our democracy and respect for the law, and on the professionalism and dedication of our security forces."

The Inquiry is set up to find the truth.

http://www.bloody-sunday-inquiry.org.uk/

cheers

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[Chris1]

the inquiry is a collossal waste of money.
What will be the result?
Criminal charges cannot be bought against the Para's, unless you would like to bring back to justice the terrorists who were let out under the good friday agreement as well.
Martin McGuiness, actually the police and the Army have a hell of a lot on him, but c/o the agreement he's not being hung by his ankles over an open fire, but we can always dream...

[Redford]

compare these 2 Dboys, Tony Blair didnt get the true meaning of the Moh, anyway, not every moh winner is hero

Gordon Gary

http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_GordonGary.jpg

Shughart Randy

http://images.sonicalbum.com/upload_297/myphotos/%d6%d8%d0%c2%c8%cf%ca%b6%c0%fa%ca%b7_ShughartRandy.jpg

[Royal]

You can't support the Paras in "what they did" during Bloody sunday as no-one knows really what happened. That is why there is an ongoing Inquiry at the moment.

It was not set up to placate the IRA but set up to establish whether the serious allegations that the rule of law was ignored on that day by the British Army is true or not.

Crap. The inquiry was set up to placate the republican movement - were the protestant majority calling for it. I think not.


Let me make this clear in no uncertain terms. 13 people, British Citizens were shot dead on the streets of Britain by British soldiers and the initial investigation, inquiry, and report into the events of that day has time and time again been discredited by most of those involved including soldiers who were there that day.

"There was a war being fought" - Gerry Adams. In a war accidents happen, friendly fire, innocent civilians are killed by armed troops - ring any bells??? Okay, lets have a 'Truth and Reconciliation' commision as in South Africa.

But to have that it reqiures both sides to tell the truth, not just the UK Security Forces.

Personally I lost too many good mates to ever forgive the murdering scum/freeddom fighters of the IRA/INLA/Real IRA, but somehow some people find it in their hearts to forgive - that's why South Africa is starting to work.

Wasting hundreds of millions on an enquiry the republicans demand, yet refuse to give evidence to, money that could have gone on jobs, pensions, education or healthcare, is lunacy until both sides come clean.

[Royal]

[Martin Mcguiness represents the will of people in northern ireland who would rather be part of ireland. having him in government albeit only the northern ireland assembly shows that there is freedom of speech in this country.

The people who would rather be part of Ireland - the minority.


If the police had anything on him he would be in jail.

He was on a number of occasions, just never for long enough. Don't be naive and think that every criminal goes to jail. How long did it take to get John Gotti? What did Al Capone go down for? Tax evasion.

In a free society intelligence and evidence are two very different matters. People may be willing to provide int, standing up in court is a different matter. They know full well that if they 'tout' on members of the republican movement they or their families will be tortured or murdered by the movements 'internal security' section.

[cut]

The people who would rather be part of Ireland - the minority.


no the IRA and it's first hand supporters are the minority the people who elect sinn fein are not.

And anyway in any democracy a minority, no matter how small, should be represented and the fact that this "tiny" minority was feeling the country was against them backs this up.



He was on a number of occasions, just never for long enough. Don't be naive and think that every criminal goes to jail. How long did it take to get John Gotti? What did Al Capone go down for? Tax evasion.


fair point and I won't, as long as you remember that such allegations can also be made up.



In a free society intelligence and evidence are two very different matters. People may be willing to provide int, standing up in court is a different matter. They know full well that if they 'tout' on members of the republican movement they or their families will be tortured or murdered by the movements 'internal security' section.

true but that's because intelligence can be worng or misconstruded

[front]

"Crap. The inquiry was set up to placate the republican movement"."

The Inquiry was set up to investigate whether the rule of law was followed by the British Army on that day. I do not speak "crap" my friend.

I suggest that you do some research on the events surrounding Bloody Sunday.

Here is a link for your, and others, edification:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/bloodysunday/article/0,2763,641439,00.html

I suggest you read that article.

"were the protestant majority calling for it. I think not. "

Seeing as the Civil Rights march, on that day, was to protest the treatment of a minority, due to their religion, by said Protestant majority I find it highly unlikely that the Protestant leaders would call for an Inquiry. I do feel, however, that the majority of civilised humans in the North of Ireland, Republic, and the rest of Britain, would like to see an inquiry, regardless of their religion, to lay the matter to rest once and for all.

I also suggest that you do not understand the depth of feeling across Ireland which the events on that day caused, and I finally suggest that you read the Irish Government's Assessment of the Widgery Report and the New Material Presented to the British Government in June 1997:

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/bsunday/irgovt.htm

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/bsunday/bs.htm

cheers

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[martinexsquaddie]

£300 million is a bit steep for an inquiry
I can some up the findings here and now
the IRA may or may not have fired first
The Paras belived they were under fire and returned fire
Rioters/innocent protesters got shot. No great consipracy paratroopers sent in to confront rioters and told to expect armed resistance no real suprise when they start shooting thats what happens in these situations
try kent state
the french
the west bank etc
Its very sad the inquiry won't satisfy everybody anyway just an excuse to stick it to the security forces.

[cut]

this is different to the kent state and the french
and the israelis could do a lot better in dealing with Gaza

but other than that there is no question that there is a lot of money, but the ira have been using bloody sunday as an excuse to whip up republican sentiment surely this will go towards preventing that happening again, same thing with the finucane investigation.

[Royal]

this is different to the kent state
True, there was no question of the students being armed...

I don't read the Guardian. It's left wing crap, and has been used by appologists for IRA, Soviet Russia, Cuba and got knows what for far too long.

I've done plenty of background reading on Bloody Sunday, and Warrenpoint, and Oamgh and God knows how many other 'incidents'. According to the ROE card carried by the Para's they were allowed to open fire "if they believed their, or other's lives to be in immediate danger".

I think that the members of 2 Para believed that. I beleive they probably overreacted - put yourself in the same position and state catagoriclly that you wouldn't do the same. I know I could'nt and judging by recent incidents in Iraq, neither can many members of the US Army or USMC.


I do feel, however, that the majority of civilised humans in the North of Ireland, Republic, and the rest of Britain, would like to see an inquiry, regardless of their religion, to lay the matter to rest once and for all.

Unfortunately the majority of people in mainland UK could'nt care less about the Province. They'd be happy if it just went away. The fact that a war has been fought (again to use the IRA's words) for over 30 years, has been an irrelavence and an occasional news item.

They just want it all to go away, and jugding by recent popular press reports (which is how the government seem to read public opinion) they think it is a monumental waste of money too.

[Royal]

but other than that there is no question that there is a lot of money, but the ira have been using bloody sunday as an excuse to whip up republican sentiment surely this will go towards preventing that happening again, same thing with the finucane investigation.

I very much doubt it. The thing that I hope will prevent it is the generation groswing up now who are sick to the back teeth of the 'Troubles' and the gangsters and criminals (on both sides of the sectarian divide) who stoke the fires in order to continue their control of the trade in drugs, prostitution and their income from 'protection money'.

[cut]

I never wrote that second bit in the first post, did I?

[Royal]

Yes

[cut]

found it.. it was front...

[front]

It was me "cut" :-)

"Unfortunately the majority of people in mainland UK..."

I wrote "the majority of civilised humans..."

Again let me state in no uncertain terms what the Inquiry is about as individuals using this board seem to be part and parcel of the problem.

Human beings were murdered on Bloody Sunday. In civilised societies the rule of law is paramount. Their murders must be investigated.

I do not care what the P.I.R.A. believe about a "war" as the humans murdered on that day were part of a Civlil Rights march, nor do I care what emotions the discussion may tread upon currently serving or ex-British Army members.

Neither does the truth.

A simple reading of the facts will show that British and Irish citizens; justice; the rule of law; and human rights were battered and butchered that day.

This current Inquiry has been brought about to find the truth. It is appalling that some voices on this board are unable to move forward in seeing this. I suggest they are part of the problem.

That the issue of Bloody Sunday needs to be resolved is absolutely paramount to the continued and ongoing peace efforts by all parties involved in the Northen Ireland peace process.

I suggest that we hold our tongue on whether the Inquiry is necessary or not (for the sake of this board) and await the findings.

cheers

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[Dave.mil]

I am not part of the problem as you state I would love to see peace in N Ireland, but I find it unbelievable to hold an inquiry at massive cost to the UK taxpayer about an incident that will never be resolved to the satisfaction of those who want the inquiry. there have been numerous Atrocities committed by the terrorists will there ever be an inquiry into those? I think not.

[Royal]

Front - we clearly don't agree, and probably never will about the circumstances of 'Bloody Sunday', the enquiry, the republiucan movement or the role of British security forces - lets leave it at that until the enquiry reports (if it ever does).

By the way I am not a member of the British Army, and never have been. I am a Royal Marine. If you don't understand the difference, ask one of the many USMC posters on the site to explain to you.

[front]

"By the way I am not a member of the British Army, and never have been. I am a Royal Marine. If you don't understand the difference, ask one of the many USMC posters on the site to explain to you."

I suggest to you that you deliberate before attempting to challenge my intelligence or reading of the make up of the "British Army".

No need to be pedantic my friend. You are a "British Soldier"... "British" as in "holds a British passport". "Soldier" as in "Navy, Army, Airforce, takes the Queen's shilling."

My apologies for threading on your comittment. My regards for the British Royal Marines is very high. I respect their professionalism, their training standards, and their ability to get involved.

cheers

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[Smoothie104]

I have an aerospace engineering degree from Kent State-1994

My first year there was 1990. 20 year anniversary of the Kent State Shootings, Connie Chung was there, I think Tom Cruise was too, in 1991 I banged my buddies sister behind the memorial.

[front]

LMAO!

At least you made love not war Smoothie... :-)

http://www2.acorn.net/~aa378/

cheers

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