Shotguns [Archive] - Page 2

Besuro

10-01-2006, 05:53 PM

I was watching FX channel's "DVD on TV" version of "Tears of the Sun" yesterday - the idea is the hosts interject trivia and show behind the scenes footage of the making of the movie as they go into and come out of the breaks.

Anyhoo, they show one character and describe his weaponry as a SOCOM M4 and a "duckbill rifle" (which was actually a shotgun). I remember hearing about shotguns with a duckbill attachment on one of the history channels shows about an actual event in Vietnam. The story was that it shaped the shot into a horizontal line and was supposedly the cat's pjs for clearing rooms.

My question is how widely used were/are duckbill modified shotguns in LE/Military applications? Are they still in use today?

Thanks in advance..

Besuro

kamarian

10-01-2006, 09:56 PM

Shouldnt this be in Equipment and Gear?

Ratamacue

10-01-2006, 10:14 PM

Shouldnt this be in Equipment and Gear?This thread is from more than three years ago, before the equipment section existed.

Vioman

10-01-2006, 10:20 PM

Better late than never

Insane Tadpole

10-01-2006, 10:41 PM

hahaha old as thread.

Besuro

10-02-2006, 02:43 AM

Rather than be told to search before posting, I figured I'd just tack it onto the only existing thread that mentioned duckbills. Thought maybe after 3 years of churn, someone might have a response.

chulo_allen

10-02-2006, 09:13 AM

Rather than be told to search before posting, I figured I'd just tack it onto the only existing thread that mentioned duckbills. Thought maybe after 3 years of churn, someone might have a response.

good thinking...

i like my duckbill.. no problems at all
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1605/platygeokj8.jpg (http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://img139.imageshack.us/transload.php)setImgWidth();

UNDERDOG1

10-02-2006, 09:15 AM

I've had the Benelli M1014 for 3 years, shot 20.000 rds with it (used as IPSC gun).

The best thing about the M4 (military designation for benelli shotgun) is that is wonderfully reliable with a vast array of ammo.

The telestock is not the best in the world, but with the aid of a vertical mill, you can put some notches in the buffer tube and have an adjustable telestock, however I vastly preferred the fixed stock.

Sights are awful, the front sight particularly, If you use an optic of some sort, beware that the recoil will wreak havoc on the strongest of mounts, loss of zero is very, very common.

With some pratice, you can put some serious lead downrange in a very short timeframe, trigger reset and pull is VERY good from the factory.

Main improvement of M4 would be an oversized safety, some provision for rails on forend (other than the awfully priced B&T rails..that cost like a new shotgun..) a better designed stock and front sight.

Other than that, a tough, heavy, reliable beast.

JoaMei

10-02-2006, 11:16 AM

Well, I think the best real Combat Shotgun is this:

http://www.gunrack.de/artikel/art_331_2.jpg

Because the Magazines are much faster than reloading a Tube.

Nick_Karatzides

10-02-2006, 11:23 AM

Friends, meet the Benelli M-4 shotgun (http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/large/m4PGSynthetic12Ga.jpg), the KING.

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/5166/hpd05dy1.jpg

Frens

10-02-2006, 11:33 AM

here is my Franchi PA-8. this shotgun was issued to my father in the early '90s when he used to escort US Army Officiers in Italy. Not a combat shotgun but it has been field tested several times p-)

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/7931/franchipa8le8.th.jpg (http://img390.imageshack.us/my.php?image=franchipa8le8.jpg)

kamarian

10-02-2006, 11:35 AM

This thread is from more than three years ago, before the equipment section existed.

Didnt notice that

gtronin

10-02-2006, 12:55 PM

Well, I think the best real Combat Shotgun is this:

http://www.gunrack.de/artikel/art_331_2.jpg

Because the Magazines are much faster than reloading a Tube.

Is that thing finally out yet? I am waiting to get my fingers on one of those...

Remington Rand

10-04-2006, 01:33 AM

Friends, meet the Benelli M-4 shotgun (http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/large/m4PGSynthetic12Ga.jpg), the KING.

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/5166/hpd05dy1.jpg

How's reliability on it? Have you shot it? Sure looks mean. I have only used civilian versions of Benelli shotguns, but had some jamming issues. I cant get the same volume of fire, but I would prefer the Remington 870.

Nick_Karatzides

10-04-2006, 02:18 AM

How's reliability on it?Is that a joke? Really, seems like a joke to me.

Have you shot it?Having the previous answer as a guide and considering that it is not a joke, is it a trick question? Maaaaan! Ofcourse I've tried it. With iron sights, with reflex sights, with standard stock, with retractable stock, covered with mud, under the rain... almost anything. Hundreds of times and using a variety of issued or non-issued ammo!

I have only used civilian versions of Benelli shotguns, but had some jamming issues.You are comparing entirely different things. This is the Benelli M-4 shotgun (http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/large/m4PGSynthetic12Ga.jpg)! It's made for battle - Nothing to do with weekend duck hunting.

I would prefer the Remington 870.What do you say about this: This shotgun is adopted by the US forces in Iraq and they are now use an (increasing as we speak) number of these Benelli M-4 shotguns for close range contacts or while operating into urban terrain. Do you think they don't estimate right?

US armed forces
Using the Benelli M-4 shotgun

Click on thumbnails to maximize in original size

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8987/benellim4shotguninusservice04po4.th.jpg (http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=benellim4shotguninusservice04po4.jpg) http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9053/benellim4shotguninusservice03qf8.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=benellim4shotguninusservice03qf8.jpg) http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4290/benellim4shotguninusservice02ki2.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=benellim4shotguninusservice02ki2.jpg) http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6955/benellim4shotguninusservice01ob7.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=benellim4shotguninusservice01ob7.jpg)

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8987/benellim4shotguninusservice04po4.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9053/benellim4shotguninusservice03qf8.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4290/benellim4shotguninusservice02ki2.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6955/benellim4shotguninusservice01ob7.jpg

silentsport

10-04-2006, 07:38 AM

the HK 502 (Franchi-made) shotgun also uses a a duckbill. I used this gun under every climatic condition, and it never let me down, but only works with full-power loads.

Sand Man

10-04-2006, 08:37 AM

Nick, is this issued as a primary weapon? Because I think it would be too cumbersome to carry around strapped on your back...

Nick_Karatzides

10-04-2006, 09:24 AM

Nick, is this issued as a primary weapon? Because I think it would be too cumbersome to carry around strapped on your back...I cannot say (I'm not a US armed forces member) if Benelli M-4 shotgun is issued as a primary or secondary weapon in the US armed forces or other country armed forces. I only know that they use it. Judging the pics & videos I've seen showing the shotgun in action during operations in Iraq, soldiers didn't carry another rifle. So, I assume that they must use it as a primary weapon.

Remington Rand

10-04-2006, 04:05 PM

Is that a joke? Really, seems like a joke to me.

Having the previous answer as a guide and considering that it is not a joke, is it a trick question? Maaaaan! Ofcourse I've tried it. With iron sights, with reflex sights, with standard stock, with retractable stock, covered with mud, under the rain... almost anything. Hundreds of times and using a variety of issued or non-issued ammo!

You are comparing entirely different things. This is the Benelli M-4 shotgun (http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/large/m4PGSynthetic12Ga.jpg)! It's made for battle - Nothing to do with weekend duck hunting.

What do you say about this: This shotgun is adopted by the US forces in Iraq and they are now use an (increasing as we speak) number of these Benelli M-4 shotguns for close range contacts or while operating into urban terrain. Do you think they don't estimate right?

US armed forces
Using the Benelli M-4 shotgun

Click on thumbnails to maximize in original size

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8987/benellim4shotguninusservice04po4.th.jpg (http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=benellim4shotguninusservice04po4.jpg) http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9053/benellim4shotguninusservice03qf8.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=benellim4shotguninusservice03qf8.jpg) http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4290/benellim4shotguninusservice02ki2.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=benellim4shotguninusservice02ki2.jpg) http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6955/benellim4shotguninusservice01ob7.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=benellim4shotguninusservice01ob7.jpg)

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/8987/benellim4shotguninusservice04po4.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/9053/benellim4shotguninusservice03qf8.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4290/benellim4shotguninusservice02ki2.jpg

http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/6955/benellim4shotguninusservice01ob7.jpg

Ok, Ok, I hear you. Some people on this forum post about weapons they havent used. Sounds like you have used it many times and are 100% satisfied. I know the military grade is different from civilian models. Having never tried this weapon, I'll take your word for it! You seem very passionate about this being on kick a$$ weapon. Again, my experience comes from civilian shotguns, but I have owned and used many autoloading shotguns and prefer a pump for reliability. I retract any implication that the Benelli isnt a mean machine.RR

Remington Rand

10-04-2006, 04:07 PM

Nothing to do with weekend duck hunting.

I bet it would work like a champ though! RR

Nick_Karatzides

11-03-2006, 10:36 AM

Hellenic PD
Using the Benelli M-4 shotgun

Click on thumbnail to maximize in original size

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/1750/m4shotgunpa6.th.jpg (http://img188.imageshack.us/my.php?image=m4shotgunpa6.jpg)

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/1750/m4shotgunpa6.jpg

Nick_Karatzides

11-16-2006, 10:41 AM

Click on thumbnail to maximize in original size

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1063/m4shotgunzq1.th.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=m4shotgunzq1.jpg)

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1063/m4shotgunzq1.jpg

Blade_Zero

11-16-2006, 11:24 AM

With regard to the duck bill choke useage, Navy SEAL point men used it with the Ithaca M37 in Vietnam. It modified the patern from circular to oval giving more overlap. It delivers more firepower than most sub-guns putting down 54 .32 caliber projectiles. The M37 is the fastest firing pump because of it's short slide stroke and disconector mode where the gun will fire every time the pump is cycled, if the trigger remains depressed.

MG 3

11-16-2006, 11:33 AM

What roles are they used in?
They might be good in an Urban environment but I don't think they have an use in open ground.

kraut783

11-16-2006, 12:17 PM

I have a personal Benelli entry shotgun (14inch barrel) and have used the military M4 shotgun. Both are good to go. No cycle problems with the M4 even in Afghan dust conditions. The M4 was ideal while in urban enviroments.

Nick_Karatzides

11-16-2006, 04:21 PM

Well, I think the best real combat shotgun is this because the magazines are much faster than reloading a tube:

http://www.gunrack.de/artikel/art_331_2.jpg

Yes, the Saiga 12 gauge shotgun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saiga-12) is a powerfull shotgun, made for LE use. It's widely used by the brave Russian "Alpha" anti-terrorist group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Group) operators.

http://www.ginklai.net/images/galerija/3163_8875390.spetsnaz_711.jpg

As for your other comment, be aware that a 8-round magazine on a shotgun instead of a tube is NOT always an advandage. A new magazine can reload the shotgun with 8 new shells as soon the old magazine is empty, but a tube can be reloaded with new shells anytime. That means that the tube equiped shotgun, could be always fully loaded. Got my point?

The Benelli M-4 shotgun (http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/large/m4PGSynthetic12Ga.jpg) is designed as a military shotgun, made for urban battle - nothing to do with hunting shotguns. It is also adopted by the US armed forces in Iraq & Afghanistan (click HERE (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1972570&postcount=17) for pics) where they use it widely for close range contacts or while operating into urban terrain. The M-4 shotgun is the ideal urban weapon nowdays. That's why the Hellenic PD, prefered the Benelli M-4 shotgun (http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/large/m4PGSynthetic12Ga.jpg) as also presented before HERE (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1968294&postcount=12), HERE (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2049748&postcount=23) & HERE (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2085244&postcount=24).

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/1750/m4shotgunpa6.th.jpg (http://img188.imageshack.us/my.php?image=m4shotgunpa6.jpg) http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/5166/hpd05dy1.th.jpg (http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hpd05dy1.jpg)

KaceCoyote

11-16-2006, 06:31 PM

I'd rather have my pump action, I've fired a fair bit of Benelli's M-4 in civilian hands before and while impressed it felt less..I dunno pointable? My Mossberg 590A1(which I believe the M-4 is now slowly replacing), has been nothing but reliable and its beyond tough. eight rounds in the tube, ghost ring sights and a fine balance for the weapon.

Fine weapon, I just prefer the 590.

maw

11-16-2006, 09:36 PM

nick except the first pic is not of a izhmash saiga, it is in fact a molot vepr shotgun (rpk trunion). the other picture of the shotgun being held by and operator is indeed a saiga. notice the vepr has a mag well and a railed top cover.

regarding tube fed shotguns, fn/browning sx2 action. 'nuff said.

Durandal

11-16-2006, 11:32 PM

Me and a Benelli

http://homepage.mac.com/thesw0rdofroland/.Pictures/Gunday/27.jpg

And there isn't anything really different between this and an issue model.

Me and a Tromix mod Saiga 12 with 8rnd combat mags.

http://homepage.mac.com/thesw0rdofroland/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2006-01-21%2015.01.17%20-0800/Image-5FAD18FC8AD111DA.jpg

Both rock for similar and completely different reasons.

Durandal

11-16-2006, 11:36 PM

I have a personal Benelli entry shotgun (14inch barrel)...

Sweet. How long did the government make you wait?

pogue

11-17-2006, 03:10 AM

Hands down, the Henway is the best there is.

Durandal

11-17-2006, 09:35 AM

Hands down, the Henway is the best there is.

Silliness...

Geezah

11-17-2006, 10:23 AM

Me and a Tromix mod Saiga 12 with 8rnd combat mags.

http://homepage.mac.com/thesw0rdofroland/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2006-01-21%2015.01.17%20-0800/Image-5FAD18FC8AD111DA.jpg

Does Randy still have the Saiga, I haven't seen it out since last Jan?

Durandal

11-17-2006, 10:25 AM

Yeah, he had it out last weekend when he took his kids shooting.

That thing has got to be one of the loudest 12 ga out there.

Geezah

11-17-2006, 11:15 AM

He was down at your gaff last weekend, when Lance, Eddie, Denny and I were over at Ed's?

JTAR7242

11-17-2006, 02:16 PM

In my experience, the M1014 is a solid weapon. I've put quite a few rounds through it, and emptied the tube from full more than once about as fast as I could pull the trigger and maintain proper aim on the target. Not a single feed problem for myself, or any of the other Marines on the lines.

http://myspace-497.vo.llnwd.net/00138/79/45/138805497_l.jpg

Can't vouch for its reliability under combat conditions, as I've not taken one to the sandbox yet. But from other Marines I've talked to, they've been impressed with it.

I do know I've considered buying a civilian model for myself. YMMV.

Lt.Havoc

11-17-2006, 02:34 PM

Durandal

11-17-2006, 07:46 PM

He was down at your gaff last weekend, when Lance, Eddie, Denny and I were over at Ed's?

Naw, that Friday. Veteran's Day and all that weekend, so the kids had the day off and he took them shooting.

Durandal

11-17-2006, 07:50 PM

Well, I have a question: has anyone of you knowledge if the AA-12 Full auto Shotgun will be issued in some way or another? I read that the USMC is looking into this weapon and I also saw photos of them testing the weapon. I mean, the weapon seems to be very reliable and well made. Would be gappy about any information regarding the AA-12.

I don't really see a need for a full auto-shotgun. The weapon itself is huge comparatively speaking.

What is cool is the ammo designed to be used with it, the Frag-12 series of munitions that hold 19mm HE rounds and AP and I think (could be wrong) HEAT.

I mean, think about it, you have an fairly open drum mag made of plastic in a dusty grit sandy environment...and the mags are as large if not larger than a SAW pouch. Add to that the Frag-12 weight (these are metal rounds with fins that have a range of something like 200 plus yards and you are talking about a massive weight to firepower problem...

I just don't see it.

KaceCoyote

11-17-2006, 08:23 PM

I don't really see a need for a full auto-shotgun. The weapon itself is huge comparatively speaking.

What is cool is the ammo designed to be used with it, the Frag-12 series of munitions that hold 19mm HE rounds and AP and I think (could be wrong) HEAT.

I mean, think about it, you have an fairly open drum mag made of plastic in a dusty grit sandy environment...and the mags are as large if not larger than a SAW pouch. Add to that the Frag-12 weight (these are metal rounds with fins that have a range of something like 200 plus yards and you are talking about a massive weight to firepower problem...

I just don't see it.

I agree. Its very cool, and I'd buy one just for blowing stuff to peices at my local shooting range but I dont know about hauling it into combat. I think the Saigas and Benellis of the world are the right direction.

dedbunniez

11-27-2006, 04:39 PM

StukaJr

11-27-2006, 05:07 PM

This seemed like the best thread to ask this in short of making a new thread:

I am looking at getting my parents a "home defense" shotgun. I have so far looked at the remington 870 (price range less than 300) and an escort. Remington is higher priced, but it has a good reputation. I have never heard of escort. Has anyone used an escort before? Also, I am pretty dead set on a pump. Both escort and remington have a 18 or 18.5 barrel.

anyways any help would be greatly appreciated.

thanks

Escort is manufactured in Europe - 870 wins hands down in availability of upgrade parts and accessories... For HD gun, I would suggest a minimum of Tritium front sight for use in low light conditions.

"Good Reputation" is given to 870 Police models or discontinued Wingmasters - if you can find one in VG to XLNT used condition, it will be much better than a brand new Express model (which is the only 870 under 300). Express models are okay, but they are not built as well - most notably, the bore is thinner. Action is pretty rough - hope your folks pick up skeet or trap shooting as the gun breaks in rather nice in 1500-2000 shots.

I would also suggest Mossberg 590 (or 500 if you must stay under 300) - it has higher tube capacity, better safety/release configuration and Mossberg works better out of the box than a 870 Express... Mossbergs are also heavier and easier to shoot.

You may also want to consider if both of your parents are willing to handle 12 ga - it's a rather uncomfortable experience first few times around.

Another thing to consider is your location - if the humidity is high and your parents need a firearm that will be able to withstand abuse and function in an emergency - I would suggest spending extra bucks and getting a Marine Coated version. I keep my guns in moisture controlled enviornment with cleaning every 6 months and the blued guns can still get rust at times.

Arsenal

11-27-2006, 05:43 PM

I use a Benelli Nova pump with an 18 inch barrel for home defense. It's a nice handling gun, and easy to maneuver in tight quarters. Cost me a little less than $300 new.

Durandal

11-27-2006, 08:02 PM

I use a Benelli Nova pump with an 18 inch barrel for home defense. It's a nice handling gun, and easy to maneuver in tight quarters. Cost me a little less than $300 new.

Same here. I put the extended tube on and ghost ring sights. Its the home defense gun but its damn accurate at 150 yds. shooting slugs.

Over all, I like the gun.

Do not waste you time with the recoil compensator though. All it is a tube of mercury and adds a full 16oz of weight to the gun with absolutely NO return.

dedbunniez

11-28-2006, 06:02 AM

Express models are okay, but they are not built as well - most notably, the bore is thinner. Action is pretty rough - hope your folks pick up skeet or trap shooting as the gun breaks in rather nice in 1500-2000 shots.

forgive my ignorance, but can an 18 inch barrel be accurate for trap or skeet? This would be great, that way I can take my step-fathers other 12 gauge. Of coarse he won't need it then.

H2O MAN

11-28-2006, 09:19 AM

I like my 14 year old HK/Benelli M1 Super 90 ~ it has never given me a single problem.

http://www.athenswater.com/images/93M1S90.JPG

gaijinsamurai

11-28-2006, 09:30 AM

The only Benelli I've ever fired was the Super90, which belonged to a friend. Much better than my Remington 870.

Durandal

11-28-2006, 10:07 AM

forgive my ignorance, but can an 18 inch barrel be accurate for trap or skeet? This would be great, that way I can take my step-fathers other 12 gauge. Of coarse he won't need it then.

Yes, but at a fair disadvantage to a 24" gun. I have a Remington 870 and a over-under bird gun. Both shoot FAR better than the Nova. Both are 24" guns.

StukaJr

11-28-2006, 02:12 PM

forgive my ignorance, but can an 18 inch barrel be accurate for trap or skeet? This would be great, that way I can take my step-fathers other 12 gauge. Of coarse he won't need it then.

I see it done all the time, but that doesn't mean your step-dad won't miss his other 12ga ;) Just because I've seen someone shoot skeet with an SKS or an 18" coachgun, doesn't mean you should make a trade...

You can purchase about any length/purpose barrel for the Express 870 at a later date or find another sport for your dad that will break in the action and making sure that the shotgun doesn't collect dust... The best selling point of the 870 is all you need is one gun and a basket full of barrels to fill any role.

dedbunniez

11-28-2006, 04:46 PM

I see it done all the time, but that doesn't mean your step-dad won't miss his other 12ga ;) Just because I've seen someone shoot skeet with an SKS or an 18" coachgun, doesn't mean you should make a trade...

You can purchase about any length/purpose barrel for the Express 870 at a later date or find another sport for your dad that will break in the action and making sure that the shotgun doesn't collect dust... The best selling point of the 870 is all you need is one gun and a basket full of barrels to fill any role.

Hey, I was just trying to get a 12 gauge for cheap :) of coarse he wouldn't give it to me. Any ideas for a good sport that will break in the action? without getting a basket full of barrels?

StukaJr

11-28-2006, 11:14 PM

Hey, I was just trying to get a 12 gauge for cheap :) of coarse he wouldn't give it to me. Any ideas for a good sport that will break in the action? without getting a basket full of barrels?

Hmmmm... Would your dad be into "Blowing crap up"? :D Maybe target shooting... Cycling dummy rounds few thousand rounds in practice drills does the trick too - get him a Tactical Shotgun DVD with it :)

And technically, you would just need one extra barrel for skeet and it takes seconds to swap out... And when I said "rough action" - it's just noticably gritty, but not by much. It's good to go as is, but will get better with time - you probably wouldn't even notice it unless you were comparing the two side by side.

My friend has 870 express and he loves it in its factory condition - takes a lot of abuse too...

dedbunniez

11-29-2006, 02:32 PM

well I am pretty much sold on the 870, it came recommended from a buddy of mine as well. I should pick one up in the next few weeks. Gotta go find the cheapest one :) My little town has only 2 shops, and one of them carries the 870. So off to Ft. Worth...

TacoDelRio

11-29-2006, 02:59 PM

I have done things to my 870 that are probably illegal in 47 states. Go for it.

Doug97

11-29-2006, 03:39 PM

I quite like the look of the Spas 15 ...

http://pages.videotron.com/drhoust/franchi_spas15.jpg

lightcav

11-29-2006, 04:48 PM

to anyone looking for a great all purpose shotgun. Get the REmington 870. I have a mossberg 590 and i have no problems with it but I wish I had the 870 instead because there are so many barrels and accessories it is compatible with.

SMGLee

11-30-2006, 10:00 PM

I like my 14 year old HK/Benelli M1 Super 90 ~ it has never given me a single problem.

http://www.athenswater.com/images/93M1S90.JPG

I agree....my favorite also.

BillySing

12-01-2006, 03:48 AM

Im not sure what prerequistes are necessary to make a simple shotgun into a "combat" shotgun, but I'm sure the J.P&S would work just fine.

gtronin

12-01-2006, 07:18 AM

supposedly the Moldot vepr 12 is out... gotto get my hands on one of those... anybody know anything about them?

Ghelp

12-01-2006, 11:54 AM

A combat shotgun from Colombia.I forgot the name but I believe it is South Korean.

http://fuerzasmilitares.net/multimedia/fotos_fac/f_air_2006-3/CSyD_F-Air_2006_05.JPG

Lt.Havoc

12-01-2006, 12:13 PM

Thats the Daewoo USAS-12. Its loud, heavy and makes a whole big mess on the traget you hit. It can be used with a 20 round drum mag also and fires full auto. Well, from what I have read, the AA-12 seems to be better, lighter, less recoil and all.

Oh, btw, a pic of a Marine using the AA-12: http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/LtHavoc/MarinefirungAA-12.jpg

I think in some situations it would be good to have such a weapon, the fire power is devasting and ecspecially in ambush or house to house combat, a full auto shotgun would pretty well. Ya know, everyone fears shotguns and wehn you come around the corner with a huge ass auto shotgun, your opponet will know that you dont came for dinner and dancing.

Ghelp

12-01-2006, 12:28 PM

The troops love it.They make spaghetti out of the narco terrorist.

exarmyguard

12-02-2006, 09:32 PM

Yes, the Saiga 12 gauge shotgun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saiga-12) is a powerfull shotgun, made for LE use. It's widely used by the brave Russian "Alpha" anti-terrorist group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Group) operators.

http://www.ginklai.net/images/galerija/3163_8875390.spetsnaz_711.jpg

As for your other comment, be aware that a 8-round magazine on a shotgun instead of a tube is NOT always an advandage. A new magazine can reload the shotgun with 8 new shells as soon the old magazine is empty, but a tube can be reloaded with new shells anytime. That means that the tube equiped shotgun, could be always fully loaded. Got my point?

The Benelli M-4 shotgun (http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/large/m4PGSynthetic12Ga.jpg) is designed as a military shotgun, made for urban battle - nothing to do with hunting shotguns. It is also adopted by the US armed forces in Iraq & Afghanistan (click HERE (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1972570&postcount=17) for pics) where they use it widely for close range contacts or while operating into urban terrain. The M-4 shotgun is the ideal urban weapon nowdays. That's why the Hellenic PD, prefered the Benelli M-4 shotgun (http://www.benelliusa.com/firearms/large/m4PGSynthetic12Ga.jpg) as also presented before HERE (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1968294&postcount=12), HERE (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2049748&postcount=23) & HERE (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showpost.php?p=2085244&postcount=24).

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/1750/m4shotgunpa6.th.jpg (http://img188.imageshack.us/my.php?image=m4shotgunpa6.jpg) http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/5166/hpd05dy1.th.jpg (http://img133.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hpd05dy1.jpg)

How about the length of the firearm? CQB is tough with a long barrel gun. The AK looks shorter to me or at least the stock can be folded. Understand your point about the TUbe mag, but young recruits may get used to the magazine fed method of reloading since the M16 and M9 use mags. Just a thought.

lasershothungary

12-05-2006, 06:55 PM

Combat indian shotgun made from trash and a waterpipe. But it works in the Jungle. And cost only 30 usd

TacoDelRio

12-05-2006, 07:24 PM

Crazy bastards. I wouldn't put that thing near my face though.

lasershothungary

12-05-2006, 07:43 PM

My partner is a Gunsmith and we fixed many of this for the indians.
I had seen crazy things. One shotgun operated with ruber band because the spring was broken. You pull the ruberband and wen you want to shot you just lose it. We make parts from nails. Our bigest problem vas we dont had cramp.

cazorp

12-12-2006, 10:13 PM

So, I've got a Maverick 88, which is a cheapo-series of the Mossberg 500, major difference is the safety being placed on the trigger-guard on the Mac as on a Rem 870, instead of at the tang of the receiver in the Mossberg 500(see pictures below)

Mossberg 500 safety:
http://www.mesatactical.com/images/shopping_cart_90390.jpg

Maverick 88 safety (its on the trigger-guard):
http://www.civilwar.de/angebote/Bilder/mossb.jpg

Most parts are interchangeable between Mossberg 500 and Maverick 88, and I'm thinking of buying a Speedfeed tactical stock
http://www.brownells.com/Images/Products/838100501.jpg

But I wanna make sure it will fit my Mav 88 before buying it, anyone tried or has experiences with Speedfeed on the 88?

Thanks in advance

Mark Sman

12-13-2006, 05:17 AM

I'm an 870 guy.

So the only good advice I can offer is check here
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=7&sid=2603ee80c1b1b3296a313ff4eecb897a

or here
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=58&sid=2603ee80c1b1b3296a313ff4eecb897a

Good luck.

John Crighton

12-13-2006, 06:09 AM

I have the same set up. After 8 years. (only 3 with this stock) it has never failed. I never liten to Mossburg bashers. Yes, they are cheap shotguns, but have always been 100% reliable with even the worst shot shells. Something my Beneli Nova Or baretta Ureka 391 can not say even with the best.

Durandal

12-13-2006, 09:45 AM

akmarksman

12-14-2006, 07:53 AM

you can't go wrong with either mossy or remmy..but the moss has been certified mil-drop safe..throw the safety on after you've racked a round in and drop it and it won't go bang..no matter how many times you drop,push or throw it down..

tyovan4

08-29-2007, 01:17 PM

Hey guys:

I'm interested in getting a used shotgun (preferably something under $200) and I thought I would ask the advice of some of our resident experts. I intend to use it for hunting (small game - but I might also want to take it for goose or duck) and for home defense. Normally I would just get a 12 gauge, but the problem is my girlfriend. Shes only about 5'5", 130 lbs and I'm afraid that a 12 gauge might be difficult and frightening for her to handle. I want to be able to kill my game, and I also don't want it to be too big or have too much recoil for her to handle inside the house - on top of needing enough stopping power to stop any potential threats to her/our safety immediately.

Any suggestions for me gentlemen? I'd greatly appreciate it

JoaMei

08-29-2007, 01:31 PM

There is no good Shotgun for both, Home defense and Hunting. Just get a good over/under Shotgun with variable chokes for Hunting and a Mossberg Maverick pump gun for defense.

There are light loads available for the 12 gauge which should work fine for your Girlfriend, I wouldnt opt for a smaller shotgun caliber. The recoil is dependent on the weigt of the load and not the caliber.

I recommend this gun, its short, cheap and reliable:

Maverick 88™ 6-Shot Security ($199 USD)

http://www.maverickarms.com/pages/images/guns/31023big.gif

For Hunting go for a browning or Beretta or something.

gaijinsamurai

08-29-2007, 01:49 PM

Good advice, Joamei.
As you arelooking for something under $200, you are putting yourself under a lot of constraints, but if you look, you should be able to find a decent used shotgun.
Like Joamei wrote, there are 12 Gauge loads that are light. You might also consider a 20 gauge. You could pick up a used Mossberg 500 for under $200, and get an extra barrel when you have a little more money, thereby having a long barrel for hunting and a short barrel for home defense, which can be swapped in seconds.

Freibier

08-29-2007, 01:50 PM

If you want a single gun that does it all, get a 870 and a swap barrel of different length.
18 inch might be good for home defense but it's rather useless for hunting.
12 gauge is manageable, even for small people. Just takes practice to hold it right. Firmly pull it into the shoulder and won't be half as bad as with a bad grip

California Joe

08-29-2007, 02:02 PM

Yep, Remington 870. A little out of your price range I guess, but then everything is unless you find a good deal on a used shotgun. 12 gauge is quite manageable. Even if the person is small in stature like your girlfriend.

Canadian Sig

08-29-2007, 02:09 PM

Nicest 870 out there

http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/5048/smd127cd5.jpg

gaijinsamurai

08-29-2007, 02:32 PM

My "home defense" shotgun is a Remington 870 and my huntin' shotgun is a Browning Auto-5. But, it will be a challenge (not impossible, though) to find either for under $200. If I'm wrong, that's great.

Silent 6

08-29-2007, 03:15 PM

I have an 870 that I use for both. IMHO don't get the "express" model if you go R 870. It's a cheapend version, cheaper wood, cheaper metal, etc.

My grandfather gave this R 870 to my Dad when he was just 14 or 15, he's now 62. I've used it since I was 14 or 15 and I'm 35. That puts the weapon at about 48 years old. IT FLAT OUT WORKS!

Just remember, you'll get what you pay for.

Beowulf

08-29-2007, 03:17 PM

yeah 200 is pretty low.

SMGLee

08-29-2007, 03:57 PM

find a good used Remington 870 from a local pawn shop. those guns are bulletproof, you can usually find a good one and even with use, it will be more then reliable for your use.

value which role you want the gun to be used for initially, then find the barrel length for it, then later you can buy a second barrel for dual role purpose.

punchinout

08-29-2007, 04:02 PM

Yea a used 870 will be a good choice.

The mossberg i bought a year ago was the "American Field" package, it was like 239. it came with a 18.5 inch barrel and a 26, its served me pretty well, but its no 870. Like SMG Lee said, 870's are bullet proof. Can't go wrong with one.

Jurpula

08-29-2007, 04:23 PM

What pretty much everyone else said. Rem 870.http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2088/iconyesmf0.gif

Paulinski

08-29-2007, 04:44 PM

As posted above 870 in an excellent shotgun.

tyovan4

08-29-2007, 04:48 PM

What about a Mossberg 500?

jeffe

08-29-2007, 04:56 PM

Either a used Mossberg pump or Winchester model 1200/1300 will do nicely. But, it is hard to beat a used Remington 870. It really is the standard by which, many other pump shotguns are judged. Also, the Remingtons, that I have seen, tend to hold their value better.

gaijinsamurai

08-29-2007, 05:17 PM

x2 what jeffe (and just about everyone else) wrote. i've owned both the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500, and of the two, the Remington is clearly better.

Canadian Sig

08-29-2007, 05:20 PM

It's not just the Remmy name either. Norinco makes an 870 copy with a 14" barrel that is popular as hell up here and guys throw tons of rounds out of them and they stay solid. it's just a great design.

StukaJr

08-29-2007, 05:27 PM

For home-D, I'd recommend Remington 9 pellet 00 reduced recoil buck - I believe it's LAPD current (or at least recent past) issue. It patterns nicely out of 18.5" barrel and has less kick, while still putting plenty of lead downrange - shouldn't be a problem for small stature shooter.

There is also Aquila 2" shells - the pain is in finding shotguns that cycle them or making modifications to shell elevator.

As for the shotgun - 870 Express for the versatility or Mossberg 590... 870 gives you more options, 590 is my preference though (but I'm basing my opinion on having a 590A1 - it's so heavy, I don't notice the recoil). If your gf still wuses out, get a Knoxx stock and get used to your entire gun shifting couple of inches with every shot - it does take most "ooomph" out of 12 gauge though...

Here is a good 870 vs 590 article, though:

http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/content_nonsub/shotguns/compare_870_590.html

It's not just the Remmy name either. Norinco makes an 870 copy with a 14" barrel that is popular as hell up here and guys throw tons of rounds out of them and they stay solid. it's just a great design.

US has different barrel length restrictions than Kanada - 18" barrel minimum without doing the AOW song and dance...

lightcav

08-29-2007, 06:56 PM

Rem 870 and get another barrel for home defense.

If your getting a used gun make sure it isn't too old because many duck hunting sites are steel ammo only and its not good to use an old barrel that was designed for lead.

I have a Mossberg 590, 20" cylinder bore. Its great for home defense and an excellent skeet gun. The magazine holds 10 rounds plus one in the chamber.

I would recommend either a 12 gauge or 20 gauge with at least a 26" bore and a modified choke and a capacity for 3" shells if you want to go duck hunting.

For Home defense I would get any 12 gauge shotgun with 18" to 20" cylinder bore and good size magazine.

For defense ammo I use 00 buck. winchester makes a reduced recoil type but still kicks like hell. I get the regular 00 buck because it isn't that much more recoil. Fire off a few rounds and you'll get used to it after a while, but it will make your shoulder sore if you shoot a lot at once.

Good luck finding anything new for under $200. You can usually find a new remington 870 for around $270.

TacoDelRio

08-29-2007, 08:13 PM

All I can do is echo people's sentiments on the 870. Got mine for $150 when I turned 18. It's never had a problem, and I abused it a lot.

Plus, everyone knows how to fix them.

clubber lang

08-29-2007, 09:49 PM

My home defense shot gun is a mossberg 590 12 gauge. I hunt with a Frenchi 12 gauge and Beretta 20 gauge. With your fixed budget I would try to find a quality used weapon (like the Remington 870 ) instead of buying a brand new weapon of lesser quality.

XASA

08-29-2007, 09:58 PM

Dan2004

08-29-2007, 10:15 PM

The aforementioned Mossies and Remmies are good, solid shotguns. But the one that has stood by me for years is my New England Arms 12ga Pardner Pump. It's got a 18" cylinder-bore barrel and a 5-round magazine, that's also furnished for a 3-round plug.

http://www.silversfirearms.com/Photo's/PARD1218CYL%20(3).jpg

^Not my weapon. Mine has wood furniture.^

Talk about a tough, reliable gun; In the time that I've had mine, I've put nearly 10,000 rounds through it, and it's never failed me. Plus if your concerned about price, Don't be. I picked it up for $150 new at K-Mart.

Durandal

08-30-2007, 12:20 AM

To be honest, you can have a cheap Stoeger 12 ga over under with a full and 3/4 choke loaded with bird loads and it'll hunt ducks just as well as deal with street trash in your living room.

This need to get something fancy is a fad that has recently hit the gun world the last decade. Most home guns were whatever people hunted with or the rifle from the last war a family member fought in (till the government decided that we weren't allowed to own some of those weapons as easily as others :|).

That said, its always nice to have a small game gun, a bird gun, and home gun.

But not for 200.00. :)

Waterman

08-30-2007, 02:01 AM

One of the best things you can do to make the shotgun more manageable for your girlfriend is to get a shortened stock for it. A properly sized shoulder stock will allow her to better control the weapon, which will make her more comfortable using it. Finding lower powered loads can make the shooting much more comfortable for her as well. There is little difference in performance at the kind of ranges that home defense requires. Leave the heavy and magnum loads for hunting.

I reccomend the Mossberg 500. You can swap out the barrels, allowing you to have an 18.5" barrel for home defense, and a 26" barrel for hunting. The shoulder stocks can also be swapped out in a matter of about two minutes. Have the short stock on at home, with the option of using a longer stock if you need it while hunting.

My gf is much more comfortable using the 500 than she is with my .45. She can control it better and scores better hits with buckshot than with .45 rounds.

orionhawk

08-30-2007, 02:05 PM

"There is also Aquila 2" shells - the pain is in finding shotguns that cycle them or making modifications to shell elevator."

They're actually 1.75 in. The Winchester 1300 Defender will cycle them well enough for varmint or range, but still flips them about 10% of the time.

Mossberg makes a Home Defense Model in .410. Highly controllable, compact, lightweight. .410 00 buckshot has 3 pellets. I don't know about you guys, but I waouldn't want to get hit by it.

I usually recommend a pistol-caliber carbine like an Olympic Arms KP45 or a Ruger PCR for girlfriend/wife home-defense.

Hogue, the maker of the recoil-absorbing grip for the S&W 500 Magnum, now offers the same grip for Mossberg 500-series shotguns. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm going to soon. I found a shoulder-stock 12-ga intolerable, regardless of load (I have skinny, scrawny, bony shoulders), but with an ordinary pistol grip it was just unpleasant. so I suspect this new Hogue grip might get me to be a Mossberg owner (I have shot the S&W500, and the grip WORKS.)

Oh, and there are effectively NO shotguns that are really good for both home defense and hunting.

You can't go wrong with a new or used 870, Mossberg, or Winchester. Ithaca still makes shotguns, and they still slam-fire. I am interested in getting a replica M1897 trench shotgun. I like the idea of a shotgun (also slam-fire-able) with a 2-foot bayonet, for home defense.:)

slam-fire is when you hold down the trigger and it keeps firing as long as you keep pumping.

with the price range you mentioned, semiautos are basically out.

lightcav

08-30-2007, 07:45 PM

Nice to see the high opinion for the Mossberg 590. I've owned one for years and put thousands of rounds through it without one problem. But like others have written, $200 won't buy you much new.

Lightcav,
My 590 holds eight in the tube (or seven if 3" shells) and one in the chamber. How do you manage to jam ten rounds into it?

I'm wrong. I have the 590 Special Purpose with ghost ring sights I thought the capacity was 10, I have never put that many in at a time as I use it for skeet 2 rounds max a one time.

Just checked I am wrong it is 8 plus one sorry for misinformation.

unpleasant

08-31-2007, 01:45 AM

Rem 870, no question.

scrybe

08-31-2007, 02:58 AM

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/5971/870taccz6.jpg

One of these with a Surefire up front and I would be a happy man.

(Remington 870 Tactical, 18")

Masai

08-31-2007, 05:08 AM

i dont think you can buy a shotgun for hunting and home defence...

i would not want to use a shotgun i bought for hunting, to do home defence
and
i would not want to use a shotgun i bought for home defence, to go hunting

i consider it unethical to hunt with a pump action shotgun.

my 2c.

JoaMei

08-31-2007, 05:45 AM

Dont use one Gun for defense and Hunting, even with barrel change thats not a good idea.

You will simply end up in a defense Situation with the long Barrel still attached from your last hunting trip. Not very practical in a building....

Kaapeli

08-31-2007, 06:45 AM

Since you only want to hunt small game a .20 gauge will do fine, has much less recoil but is practically just as deadly with buckshot. 24 inch barrel I think is decent for hunting and not too long for home either.
And I recommend against pistol grips. It aligns more naturally with a regular stock in my opinion.

Bohemoth

08-31-2007, 07:04 AM

It has to be the Auto Assault 12 with a 8 rounds box mag for hunting and a 20 rounds drum magazine to counter home invasion.

http://www.defensereview.com/stories/aa-12/AA12%20Shotgun_FIREBALL%20WITH%20CASE%20EXTRACTION.jpg

With extremely reduced recoil it can be operated by a kid.

http://www.defensereview.com/stories/aa-12/AA12%20Shotgun_SHOTGUN%20CHAD.jpg

Jurpula

08-31-2007, 07:26 AM

That looks like a Chevy commercial.
"Feel the power, even your kids can wield it."

playtym

08-31-2007, 07:32 AM

With extremely reduced recoil it can be operated by a kid.

http://www.defensereview.com/stories/aa-12/AA12%20Shotgun_SHOTGUN%20CHAD.jpg

Yeah, if there's a pole to brace against and an adult nearby to push on their arm to counter the recoil! rofl

TacoDelRio

08-31-2007, 06:22 PM

Somehow I don't think he can afford or legally posess an AA12.

RomanS

08-31-2007, 06:30 PM

Saiga 410 is a nice smooth toy

OMON

08-31-2007, 06:50 PM

That looks like a Chevy commercial.
"Feel the power, even your kids can wield it."

LOL

russia strong !!111!

HOLLiS

08-31-2007, 07:10 PM

Problem with 410, cheapest to reload and most expensive to buy. For a first time shot gun I would stick with a 20 gauge or 12 g, if your in the US. Promo rounds are the least expensive and probably best for home defense, unless your into collateral damage.

gaijinsamurai

08-31-2007, 07:30 PM

Crotchety Old Man Hollis shoots rock salt at youngsters who venture onto his property.

BillySing

08-31-2007, 07:49 PM

I maybe more of a traditionalist than some.........

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/2615/purdey20gauge2lw3.th.jpg (http://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=purdey20gauge2lw3.jpg)

Both nothing can compare with the graceful fine handling that is a Purdey.

gaijinsamurai

08-31-2007, 08:06 PM

Purdey...nice.
I read once that the director John Milius gets a Purdey from the movie studios for each film he directs, per contract.
But somehow, I don't think he's going to find one for under $200.

wiking

08-31-2007, 08:15 PM

my "close protection" and hunting gun is a 1970's vintage Side-By-Side 12\70.

Probably not the best choice, but it's been in the family for quite a while :)

BillySing

08-31-2007, 10:22 PM

DeltaWhisky58

09-01-2007, 04:30 AM

Purdey...nice.
I read once that the director John Milius gets a Purdey from the movie studios for each film he directs, per contract.
But somehow, I don't think he's going to find one for under $200.

You don't "get" a new Purdey from anyone but Purdeys. You would normally visit Purdey's London office to order one, it takes on average 3-5 years to build and costs upwards of £30,000, however these days they do build some guns on spec - the prices are astronomical.

James Purdey & Sons (http://www.purdey.com/)

California Joe

09-01-2007, 12:12 PM

I read that about John Milius too, he's a gun nut and always included a stipulation in his contracts that the studio would procure a fine firearm of his choosing to seal the deal.

Corrupt

09-01-2007, 03:16 PM

wiking

09-01-2007, 03:46 PM

A question really.
I understand its not uncommon to own firearms for home/self defence. Which is fair enough I suppose in theory (Brit here so the chances of firearmed attackers is small and thus i dont bother myself)

Last time i checked, the use of firearms in crime in Britain has exploded in the last years. your chances of getting mugged\burglared by someone with a gun in Britain seems pretty damn big.

Corrupt

09-01-2007, 03:54 PM

Last time i checked, the use of firearms in crime in Britain has exploded in the last years. your chances of getting mugged\burglared by someone with a gun in Britain seems pretty damn big.
Compared with the USA i meant.
No disagreement that it had increased dramatically, but its by no means an everyday occurence like it is. But lets not get into the safety debate...again. Knives I've had pulled on me, but not a firearm yet thankfully.
Just wondering how one intends to access ones shotgun should the attacker be armed, which is probably more likely in the US. Surely you're better off letting him take your tv worth at most a few thousand than risking everything. I know if someone broke into my home id let them take what they want as long as they left me and everyone else safe. Its what we have insurance for!
No intention of flaming or implying you're an idiot, Im just curious as to why you feel so much safer this way

SOG

09-01-2007, 04:20 PM

i currently have a savage 69 (the gun, not the girlfriend), buy whatever works and goes bang. take your gal to the range and show her how to lean into it with her shoulder and a firm grip. she can handle it shes taught how ;)

SOG

09-01-2007, 04:35 PM

2) Would an armed intruder you really need to defend yourself from actually let you get to your shotgun?

Obviously if your girl or something was threatened it would be different but point 2 still stands

1. how do you know what they are there for?
2. what they have done in the past?
3. what they are capable of doing? ie did they come armed?

i guess once im done asking the robber to fill out a questioneer and after ive examined the answers ill go ahead and decide whether to go for my gun.

or not.

considering i dont live with anyone but a roomate who is home all the time and i live in a semi ****ty neighborhood: shoot first, ask questions later.

as for getting to my gun, depends on how aware i am or how good of a robber im dealing with. either way having the gun as a option certainly wont hurt. if i dont get to it in time then they probably wont find it. if i do then ill be so shaky i hope i can shoot straight.

if i didnt have my gun id go for the bat. if i didnt have the bat then id go for the 80$ german made thick as **** cooking pan my roomate has. either way i take extreme offense to the idea that im supposed to lay back and take getting ****ed because it might save my life. you might as well tell women to not fight or shout or do anything to upset a rapist. they might get upset and kill the woman.

Corrupt

09-01-2007, 04:57 PM

if i didnt have my gun id go for the bat. if i didnt have the bat then id go for the 80$ german made thick as **** cooking pan my roomate has. either way i take extreme offense to the idea that im supposed to lay back and take getting ****ed because it might save my life. you might as well tell women to not fight or shout or do anything to upset a rapist. they might get upset and kill the woman.

Oh yeah sure if it was a rapist or murderer then sure as hell fight back. Thats why the knife got pulled on me, looking out for my friend...hurt like hell too! Could well have just been a mugging, but when someone pulls a knife and goes to grab you';re friend you try and get between them and stop the attacker. But they are even more likely to be armed arnt they so if you do have a shottie you're less likely to reach it with them? Tho I do take your point about its nice having the option if you can get it.
I was more referring to a robbery than a rape when it came to just letting it happen. Fair enough I can see your point about home defence, no more questions from me :)

SOG

09-01-2007, 10:09 PM

well im not opposed either way. its really not for everybody and i can totally understand why some dont want to provoke action. its just a personal preference from the way i see it. thanks.

HOLLiS

09-01-2007, 10:27 PM

rhino

09-02-2007, 12:06 AM

I OBJECT TO ALL YOU 870 FANS!!!!!!!!!!

whats wrong with win 1300???

Im asking mostly because I just boght one (got tired of looking for a good deal on 870) and I havnt seen anyone mentioned it yet

AnUbIs

09-02-2007, 02:18 AM

A question really.
I understand its not uncommon to own firearms for home/self defence. Which is fair enough I suppose in theory (Brit here so the chances of firearmed attackers is small and thus i dont bother myself)

But yeah basically
1) Are you not more likely to have unchangable consequences with the firearm for defence (Ie you or your girl get shot by the intruder who is very possibly armed himself given homeowners defend their property)
2) Would an armed intruder you really need to defend yourself from actually let you get to your shotgun?

Not condemning the idea. Actually v curious as to what you forsee happening if the instruder brings along his own weapon. Surely you're better off being very cooperative and letting him take replacable items than risking your life? Obviously if your girl or something was threatened it would be different but point 2 still stands

1) by the time that mother ****er getsup the stairs To Harm anything my Mossberg 500A 20'' will be pointing in his face

2.)Seek answer to #1

I keep My Shotgun upstairs so if a window breaks i run upstairs to the closet , if i dont have time to get upstairs , a trusty 1911 is hiden downstairs, my house has been broken into twice while i wasnt home so id like to see them try it while i am home.

TacoDelRio

09-02-2007, 03:37 AM

I OBJECT TO ALL YOU 870 FANS!!!!!!!!!!

whats wrong with win 1300???

Im asking mostly because I just boght one (got tired of looking for a good deal on 870) and I havnt seen anyone mentioned it yet

I'm not a fan of 1300's as a defensive shotgun, not that I require one. That said, I shoot trap and skeet very very quickly with an old 1300.

I guess I don't have any real definitive answer as to why I don't like it. I'll keep them to myself. I have my own reasons, but they don't matter.

Corrupt

09-02-2007, 06:08 AM

well im not opposed either way. its really not for everybody and i can totally understand why some dont want to provoke action. its just a personal preference from the way i see it. thanks.
I do have to admit if I lived somewhere a little less safe I'd seriously consider it, even here in the UK.

SOG

09-02-2007, 01:25 PM

SOG. First, you need to change your name. Second is that you should have a questionnaire for who ever decides to invade your house to determine their intent........ if you live long enough.

SOG, "1. how do you know what they are there for?"

1. wasnt aware i could change my name or needed to. anyone who is offended could call for a name change in the 3 years ive been here. i figure it was incredibly generic (like using the word "armed force", it does not denote a country or branch) and i have never once claimed to be mil. if it offends you, contact admin and they can ask me to come up with another name. i have no problem with that whatsoever.

2. the questionere was being rather facetious. that was the exact point. you cant really determine why they are there so i prefer shoot first, ask questions later. is that so bad? i thought i was being obvious, sorry.

OMON

09-02-2007, 01:31 PM

get an Saigawoot

HOLLiS

09-02-2007, 02:03 PM

1. wasnt aware i could change my name or needed to. anyone who is offended could call for a name change in the 3 years ive been here. i figure it was incredibly generic (like using the word "armed force", it does not denote a country or branch) and i have never once claimed to be mil. if it offends you, contact admin and they can ask me to come up with another name. i have no problem with that whatsoever.

2. the questionere was being rather facetious. that was the exact point. you cant really determine why they are there so i prefer shoot first, ask questions later. is that so bad? i thought i was being obvious, sorry.

Opps, I guess It did not fly right the way I see it. I found it extremely comical a name of SOG (study and observation group) taking what seemed to be a very timid approach to home security. (I missed you be facetious)

I missed your sarcasm, as you explained in point 2... Ugg I guess i owe a beer or two. mia coupa.

SOG

09-02-2007, 02:29 PM

oh man, my bad, i forgot youre vietnam era, SOG is simply Special Operations Groups in a modern sense, i didnt mean any disrepsect at all. i simply dig the crazy work "special forces" does and thought it was rather "generic" so as not to be overly poser'ish. i apologize for the confusion.

ive even done military art of it in the past because i simply dig the name.
http://wightzombie.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=24

some stuff for your time on this page with all respect.
http://wightzombie.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=48

sorry about the derail tyovan!

HOLLiS

09-02-2007, 02:50 PM

SOG, thanks for sharing the art work, very impressive.

I guess to stay within the topic. Benefits of a 870 is that you can change it from several type of hunting shot guns to a nasty home defense shotgun.

I really don't auto loaders for HD. You can pull the slide back and hold it, until you need to jack one in the chamber. sort of a safe carry, unless you let the new round to fall out of the gun. Also the noise of a pump shot gun makes when when a round is chamber is very very well recognize and has had a sobering influence on perps.

Problem with HD logistics, Thin walls, other friendlies, along with the fact you may be wakening from a deep sleep (Brain is not up to 100%).

T.H.E. rooster

09-02-2007, 03:12 PM

I have a nova tactical. I like it, but its not near as versatile as the 870 or 500. Really only because the receiver and stock are one piece.

HOLLiS

09-02-2007, 04:04 PM

A HDD is a very effective choice in Home defense.

(Home Defense Dog)

gaijinsamurai

09-03-2007, 01:01 AM

Jake is cool.

deadtired

09-03-2007, 01:55 AM

A HDD is a very effective choice in Home defense.

(Home Defense Dog)

He's got that look that says "Please don't punish me, I didn't mean to kill and eat the postman".

HOLLiS

09-03-2007, 10:59 PM

He's got that look that says "Please don't punish me, I didn't mean to kill and eat the postman".

Jake getting ready to go on perimeter duty. UPS dude best have some dog biscuits.

Durandal

09-04-2007, 08:51 AM

I have a nova tactical. I like it, but its not near as versatile as the 870 or 500. Really only because the receiver and stock are one piece.

I have a NOVA and an 870.

Not too sure what you mean by more versatile. If you mean, swapping stocks as the ONLY criteria then you would be correct.

The NOVA is FAR more versatile than the 870 in terms of receivers though.

Try to run a 3 1/2" through the 870.

I love my 870 and I think there are some nice variants of it out there and it is most certainly THE shotgun, but just because it can take more bling doesn't make more versatile.

THe question is, can you accurately shoot 2.75" slugs accurately at 150 yards and ALSO use 3.5" Turkey Loads.

THAT is versatile.

THe NOVA rocks in that regard.

deadtired

09-04-2007, 12:06 PM

Since this appears to be the go-to thread for shotgun advice, here's my question:

What, in y'alls opinion, would be a good barrel length for an all-purpose shotgun? I'm talking about a truck gun that might be used as a brush buster one day and a upland bird gun the next, and hell, maybe a fighting weapon the day after that. For sh!ts and giggles, let's say its an 870 we're talking about. I know no barrel is going to be perfect for all these uses, but what would make a good jack-of-all-trades?

I know the answers to this question will have a lot to do with shot patterns and terminal ballistics, so here's another question: Slugs and buckshot (00 thru 4) notwithstanding, what typically is the primary limiting factor in the effective range of a shotgun? Is it the degree of shot dispersal (not enough shot hitting the target) or the energy the shot has when it hits the target?

JoaMei

09-04-2007, 01:32 PM

tyovan4

09-05-2007, 11:49 AM

HOLLiS

09-05-2007, 12:03 PM

I'm gonna call around to the gun stores tomorrow and see what kind of prices they have for used 870s. I was leaning towards Mossberg 500 myself, due to the price, but it seems everyone that has one has some problems with them.

Thanks for all the advice guys, I'll post a pic when I finally buy an 870 (hopefully w/in the next week or two!)

Sometimes the difference is very little or is based on the person's usage of a particular firearm. 870 is a good shot gun, it also has lots of accessories for it. Lots of barrels, chokes, magazine extensions, etc.

I also have a Mossberg 590, and I have been very pleased with it. BUT, it pretty inflexable as far all the types of shotgunning I can do with it.

Pumps tend to be safer for first time users. Auto loader tend to add a extra layer of risk.

Either way, you should be please with your 870 and you can always add another shot gun down the road.

Lets us know how it works out.

H.

wiking

09-05-2007, 02:07 PM

The Norwegian Association of Hunters and Anglers had a test of shotgun cartridges in the last issue of their magazine. Granted this is animal shooting and not man shooting, but through various tests they figure that there are two factors that actually bring down game, and thats:

1. Amount of pellets that hits the target
2. The level of penetration on target

First point is easily tested. Set up a large target like a big sheet of paper or cardboard and test various cartridges and loads at 30-40 yards or so. you want a good, even distribution of shot without large gaps in the shot pattern.

the second point is simply tested by chronographing the various cartridges, and i'm damned sure there's lots of difficult math involved.

If we're talking man shooting then the way i figure it, it doesnt really matter what you use, because just about any pellet\solid shot load at more or less arms length (which is the realistic engagement range for home defence) the target will go down hard and fast. But go for high effect on target, but low penetration in case you miss. Shooting the bastard who came to rob, kill or rape is, by most people's standards, OK. having a miss, or just a few stray pellets, hitting the little old lady next door is bad.

T.H.E. rooster

09-05-2007, 03:31 PM

I have a NOVA and an 870.

Not too sure what you mean by more versatile. If you mean, swapping stocks as the ONLY criteria then you would be correct.

The NOVA is FAR more versatile than the 870 in terms of receivers though.

Try to run a 3 1/2" through the 870.

I love my 870 and I think there are some nice variants of it out there and it is most certainly THE shotgun, but just because it can take more bling doesn't make more versatile.

THe question is, can you accurately shoot 2.75" slugs accurately at 150 yards and ALSO use 3.5" Turkey Loads.

THAT is versatile.

THe NOVA rocks in that regard.
I was more thinking about in terms of accesories and modifications, because I've been looking for a tube extension and possibly a sidesaddle and the selection isvery limited and spread out. I've never really ventured beyond 2 3/4 though, I guess I never had the need to really.
Dumb question, since I've never shot slugs, but can you shoot slugs out the 18 inch smoothbore? I know it would be a hell of a lot less accurate, with almost no range, but would it work?

rhino

09-05-2007, 11:45 PM

I was more thinking about in terms of accesories and modifications, because I've been looking for a tube extension and possibly a sidesaddle and the selection isvery limited and spread out. I've never really ventured beyond 2 3/4 though, I guess I never had the need to really.
Dumb question, since I've never shot slugs, but can you shoot slugs out the 18 inch smoothbore? I know it would be a hell of a lot less accurate, with almost no range, but would it work?

why wouldnt it??
my brother just called me, he shot :roll: at a bear from 25 yards with a 30-06, no trace of a bear after 3hrs of searching, he just wanted me to know that I should bring my 12ga slugs for this weekend:) (Im hoping my win 1300, with an 18in barrell shows up by then) should be fun

HOLLiS

09-05-2007, 11:53 PM

Dumb question, since I've never shot slugs, but can you shoot slugs out the 18 inch smoothbore? I know it would be a hell of a lot less accurate, with almost no range, but would it work?

Early military muskets were smooth bores, at 50 yards deadly, at 100 yards questionable (really depends on the shooter then).

Now ask yourself what accuracy do you want at 30 yards?

Pin point is for NRA match .17 air guns. A bear 10 - 12 in group will do. (At 30 yards that would be appoximately 33 - almost 40 in. group.)

T.H.E. rooster

09-06-2007, 01:18 AM

Ok, I guess I know now :), thanks. I suppose I was thinking the size of the projectile without any sort of rifling to give it some twist, would have the ballistics of a brick.

Durandal

09-06-2007, 08:11 AM

Young-kiwi

09-07-2007, 01:48 AM

I can throw a slug with accuracy at 100 yards with the 18" barrel of my Nova. Smoothbore with Ghost Ring sights.

Works like a charm.

I call accurate being able to hit a 12" square steel plate or paper target repeatedly. Not too sure I would hunt with it at that range unless I wanted to to a lot of walking.

I'd agree with this, I get the same kind of performance out of my 20" 870
Smoothbore, with open rifle sights.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c110/young-kiwi/Remington870.jpg

Bitter Muppet

09-08-2007, 12:49 AM

Durandal

09-08-2007, 09:23 AM

I've never owned the very popular 870 that everyone talks about here so I can't comment on it. I do own a Mossberg 590 and love it as far as pump-action goes.

Going waaay outside of the price range is my Benelli M1 Super90 (actually it's older so it was one of the HK-Benelli's). That one can't be beat IMHO.

I'd take that over an AK for an up close and personal encounter.

I love the M1 but it ain't a 20" or 24"choked bird gun or at the very least, take 3.5" loads.

Its a combat gun, a great gun in that limited area of use (which most people, fortunately will not end up using), ultimately what it ends up being is the "who can dump 8 rounds of 12ga the fastest gun".

HOLLiS

09-08-2007, 01:00 PM

I love the M1 but it ain't a 20" or 24"choked bird gun or at the very least, take 3.5" loads.

Its a combat gun, a great gun in that limited area of use (which most people, fortunately will not end up using), ultimately what it ends up being is the "who can dump 8 rounds of 12ga the fastest gun".

It is limited, but one can still have a bunch of fun with it. When one considers about 90+% of all shooting is against targets, it can easily fill that bill. Obviously for a hunter.. some restrictions may apply (plugging the mag and choice of barrels/chokes is not there). You can still shoot trap/skeet in a non-competitive environment or with your own equipment.

But I completely agree if a person just wanted one shotgun (very limited mindset, IMHO) that does it all.

Why own just one, there are many firearms out there than needs a good home.

tyovan4

09-08-2007, 07:17 PM

Hey guys - I ended up getting a new New England Firearms Pardner Pump 12 guage. When I have more money I'll go for an 870. Thanks for all the advice though!!

gaijinsamurai

09-09-2007, 12:06 AM

Congratulations! I hope you like it, Tyovan!

10th albatross

05-11-2008, 04:02 AM

This is a helluva deal. Retail around $300.00.

http://www.mossberg.com/JIC.htm

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2492/jicbacktb0.jpg
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/6715/jicfrontkb4.jpg

Not a bad deal, for a vehicle. Good kit to go with a bugout bag as well. Def. good for the next zombie situation. That disaster in '97 was a bitch.

dangerdan

05-11-2008, 09:10 AM

Not bad for $300 + tax + $5 NFA tax

OMON

05-11-2008, 09:14 AM

where do you keep it?

wilkj05

05-11-2008, 11:53 AM

haw will a shot gun help you relay. i do not sea the logic in that . but the rest of it looks like good and steady.

10th albatross

05-11-2008, 06:41 PM

where do you keep it?

I am going to try and figure out a place in my pathfinder to rig it, not a bad thing to have really. Probably a bit of overkill, but it is def. good for a final stand against zombies.

Get a big bugout bag or something and put it in there.

TacoDelRio

05-11-2008, 06:50 PM

haw will a shot gun help you relay. i do not sea the logic in that . but the rest of it looks like good and steady.

Say whaaaaaaaaaaaa?

10th albatross

05-11-2008, 06:52 PM

haw will a shot gun help you relay. i do not sea the logic in that . but the rest of it looks like good and steady.

After taco's post, yea whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?

Howie Kaluha

05-11-2008, 06:58 PM

so, where can i buy it??!

schwarz

05-11-2008, 06:59 PM

haw will a shot gun help you relay. i do not sea the logic in that . but the rest of it looks like good and steady.

What would you suggest? It looks to me like its meant for disasters, a shotgun comes in very handy in a situation like a hurricane(hint hint) or other major disaster where LEO is not able to protect everyone. On the other hand in the field while a shotgun like this may not be perfect it's very versatile(slugs, 00, bird shot etc). Sure you could probably put together a better setup.

Next time at least attempt a coherent sentence.

SnakeBiteLeader

05-11-2008, 07:04 PM

haw will a shot gun help you relay. i do not sea the logic in that . but the rest of it looks like good and steady.

Generally good for shooting animals or people.

10th albatross

05-11-2008, 07:04 PM

so, where can i buy it??!

The internetz, I actually saw one at the range yesterday. They are really nice, those cannisters are pretty large though. Not something you would want to lug around, but perfect for boat, home, vehicle, office, in-laws home, etc, etc..

I have been trying to think about a way to mount it, and havent really come up with anything decent yet. Using para cord just doesn't seem fitting.

schwarz

05-11-2008, 07:06 PM

Generally good for shooting animals or people.

Or that.:)

Bulletproof

05-11-2008, 07:13 PM

Every seal hunter in Canada should have one.

10th albatross

05-11-2008, 07:19 PM

Every seal hunter in Canada should have one.

I thought they carried clubs. Seems that a shottie would take the fun out of clubbing.

Indiana Jones

05-11-2008, 07:21 PM

Generally good for shooting animals or people.
With no stock, an 18 inch barrel and cylinder choke this thing sucks for wingshooting and slugs alike, so no hunting. In order to scare your looting neighbours away or for the ubiquitous zombies, yeah, why not, it looks cool after all. I`d still put a folding stock on it.

10th albatross

05-11-2008, 07:22 PM

With no stock, an 18 inch barrel and cylinder choke this thing sucks for wingshooting and slugs alike, so no hunting. In order to scare your looting neighbours away or for the ubiquitous zombies, yeah, why not, it looks cool after all. I`d still put a folding stock on it.

I thought about that, but I dont think it would fit into the tube if you modded it. Perhaps an easy change out somewhere close yes, but in the tube no.

Waterman

05-12-2008, 12:40 AM

With the right tools (allen wrench and screwdriver), you can on or off a regular shoulder stock, in about 90 seconds. You might be able to store the stock in the tube, and then attach it when you need to use it.

A pistol grip is not good for accuracy, good follow up shots or anything further away that about 25 yards. But for a SHTF situation, this is far better than having nothing. A shoulder stock and sidesaddle would be helpful with this set up.

I have a couple of Mossberg's, a 500 and a 590SPM. They are solid performers for a variety of tasks. If I could only take one gun with me in a pinch, it would be the pump shotgun.

SnakeBiteLeader

05-12-2008, 12:42 AM

10th albatross

05-12-2008, 12:45 AM

What about rabid dogs, or cows?

or kittens?

Mister_manji

05-12-2008, 04:47 AM

Not bad for $300 + tax + $5 NFA tax
I wasn't aware you had to pay the NFA tax on bbls over 18in on shotguns,or am i somehow mistaken?

Laconian

05-12-2008, 09:34 AM

There's no NFA tax/transfer on a shotgun with a bbl longer than 18" or overall length of 26"

orionhawk

05-13-2008, 12:09 PM

The internetz, I actually saw one at the range yesterday. They are really nice, those cannisters are pretty large though. Not something you would want to lug around, but perfect for boat, home, vehicle, office, in-laws home, etc, etc..

I have been trying to think about a way to mount it, and havent really come up with anything decent yet. Using para cord just doesn't seem fitting.
I should think you would be able to find pipe hangers/clamps of appropriate size at home depot or lowes. just mount it in that.

I was offered one of these as a cheaper alternative to the Mossberg 500A tactical I bought last weekend. I turned it down. I was getting it as a bedside gun, and I already have ammo boxes that would work to store it if I wanted a bailout shotgun.

Mossberg 500A Tactical w/ "Breacher" muzzle-brake. Hogue "Tamer" pistol grip. jury-rigged 1913 rail on forearm, w/Insight M6.

stupid thing is I had to get a "handgun safety inspection" on it. (Michigan)

annihilation

09-16-2008, 12:56 AM

HOLLiS

09-16-2008, 12:59 AM

So I am looking to buy a shotgun for home defense and/ or looking for food when the world collapses. What would you guys recommend for a shotgun? I don't really know anything about shotguns so I figure I would ask before I went to a store.

I would get a pump.

12 or 20 gauge, depending on who is going to be shooting it.

Remington 870 has a great reputation and you can customize it, get additional barrels etc.

wildcat12

09-16-2008, 01:01 AM

I would get a pump.

12 or 20 gauge, depending on who is going to be shooting it.

Remington 870 has a great reputation and you can customize it, get additional barrels etc.
same with the mossberg 500, Mossberg is the only shot gun to pass all DOD test. I have one, cost $200, I have 3 barrels, 18" for home defense, 21 and 24" for hunting.

BRAVO JULIET

09-16-2008, 01:01 AM

im a fan of the mossberg 500 series

-wildcat beat me

HOLLiS

09-16-2008, 01:06 AM

im a fan of the mossberg 500 series

-wildcat beat me

I have a 590, great shotgun. Looks wicked with the bayonet.

wildcat12

09-16-2008, 01:07 AM

I have a 590, great shotgun. Looks wicked with the bayonet.
Do you have a pic?

macdaddy78

09-16-2008, 01:12 AM

Why the pump over the auto?

Price?

Reliability?

HOLLiS

09-16-2008, 01:19 AM

Why the pump over the auto?

Price?

Reliability?

A pump is much safer, IMHO. Greater control over chambering especially for the environment it will be used in. Up land bird hunting, trap or skeet different environment. Also racking the slide can also have a decent effect on the perp, maybe no one gets shot.

dangerdan

09-16-2008, 03:07 AM

Remington 1187 is the way to go.

punchinout

09-16-2008, 04:40 AM

I second what Hollis said. Go with a Pump gun you won't be disappointed. My Mossberg 500 decided to crap out on me recently. I need to send it back to Mossberg, but it was one of those very rare failures that probably wasn't caught when it was manufactured. I love Mossbergs. Remington 870's are great too. It comes down to taste. I still want an 870 and will probably be buying one when i can afford it. With Mossberg you can get some great value packages. My 500 was the "American Field Combo" it came with an 18.5" barrel and an 28" barrel. Dual Use is very cool. I think they are selling a package with a breacher barrel now too.

I'd say you can equate a pump shot gun to the simplicity of a revolver. The operating mechanism is so much simpler than an auto loader and a lot more reliable. You don't have to worry about some highfalutin gas system, recoil system or inertia driven system, like Hollis said you control the chambering and it gives you a feeling of security. You are racking that action that is sending the round home you are in control in all stages, unlike an auto loading shotgun. I sold a 500 Bantam youth model in 20gauge to a guy once...wasn't for his son, it was for his wheel chair bound mother.

Simple guns.

But...auto loaders aren't bad. Good luck dude. Go Mossbergp-)

Eztyga

09-16-2008, 04:56 AM

So I am looking to buy a shotgun for home defense and/ or looking for food when the world collapses. What would you guys recommend for a shotgun? I don't really know anything about shotguns so I figure I would ask before I went to a store.

Check out the Reminton 870 Marine model (marine as in wet enviroments). It has a synthetic stock and a corrosion resistant finish.

Wood looks nice, but if the world collapses then you will need something that is low maintenance. :)

Ezy

wildcat12

09-16-2008, 05:18 AM

Check out the Reminton 870 Marine model (marine as in wet enviroments). It has a synthetic stock and a corrosion resistant finish.

Wood looks nice, but if the world collapses then you will need something that is low maintenance. :)

Ezy
The Marines use the Benelli M4 Super 90, it is what they use now, it is a semi-auto. in fact the Benelli is to replace the pump actions, where possible, but it is proven that the pump is more relaiable. The 870 is a great shotgun, My reason for not purchasing it was the flap where you load the shells would catch my cuticle on my thumb.

The Mossberg also have a synthetic stock version, and like Remmington, there are camo versions too. You cannot go wrong with a Mossberg 500 / 590 or a Remmington 870. Both are used by the LE. And the Mossberg 500/590 is what is used by 22 militarys around the world as their shutgun. It has many features that make it a lot more reliable, such as the receiver does not get stressed when fireing, double extraction parts.

My experience with pump action shotguns, is they seem pretty much the same, small changes here and there, but basic design is based of the Remington 31 I believe, which became the Ithaca Model 37, which then lead to Remington and Others to enter back into the shotgun market.

Eztyga

09-16-2008, 05:26 AM

The 870 is a great shotgun, My reason for not purchasing it was the flap where you load the shells would catch my cuticle on my thumb.

Oooww, break a nail did we love? :)

Ezy

boreal

09-16-2008, 05:54 AM

Saiga´s are quite fun.

http://www.armas.es/img/leg/escopetas/saiga_principal.jpg

Or a Fabarm.

Moriarti

09-16-2008, 06:25 AM

The Marines use the Benelli M4 Super 90, it is what they use now, it is a semi-auto. in fact the Benelli is to replace the pump actions, where possible, but it is proven that the pump is more relaiable. The 870 is a great shotgun, My reason for not purchasing it was the flap where you load the shells would catch my cuticle on my thumb.

The Mossberg also have a synthetic stock version, and like Remmington, there are camo versions too. You cannot go wrong with a Mossberg 500 / 590 or a Remmington 870. Both are used by the LE. And the Mossberg 500/590 is what is used by 22 militarys around the world as their shutgun. It has many features that make it a lot more reliable, such as the receiver does not get stressed when fireing, double extraction parts.

My experience with pump action shotguns, is they seem pretty much the same, small changes here and there, but basic design is based of the Remington 31 I believe, which became the Ithaca Model 37, which then lead to Remington and Others to enter back into the shotgun market.

True enuff about the benelli for the USMC. Nice peice of kit - BUT it is WAY expensive. I have a highly modified M590 M&P for "home defense" :) Riot length, with surefire forend, m4 style butstock/pistol grip - loverly.

Laconian

09-16-2008, 01:01 PM

You can't go wrong with a Mossberg, Remington or Winchester 12-ga shotty. It will come down to economics and ergonomics.

wildcat12

09-16-2008, 01:03 PM

True enuff about the benelli for the USMC. Nice peice of kit - BUT it is WAY expensive. I have a highly modified M590 M&P for "home defense" :) Riot length, with surefire forend, m4 style butstock/pistol grip - loverly.
sounds like a nice shotgun, you will have to post some pics when you get home, if they ever let you leave.

Pook2

09-16-2008, 01:07 PM

I prefer my 1927 Parker 12 side by side. Two barrels for double the fun.

Linedoggie

09-16-2008, 01:12 PM

I've got a rather nice Stevens M520-30 Trenchgun like this one:

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h222/linedoggie/SM520-30.jpg

It's 12 Gauge, has no disconnector so you hold the trgger back and Pump as fast as you can pump it. and a nice M1917 Bayonet fits on the end :)

Guaranteed attention getter....

Laworkerbee

09-16-2008, 01:32 PM

My Grand Pappy had a trench gun like that ^ I believe it was made by Ithaca, it is one mean looking shotgun.

HOLLiS

09-16-2008, 01:36 PM

wildcat12

09-16-2008, 01:50 PM

boreal

09-16-2008, 02:35 PM

http://www.fabarm.com/graphic/products/sdass-tactical2.jpg

StukaJr

09-16-2008, 03:09 PM

I am a big fan of Auto-5 Brownings and their derivatives - perhaps the most reliable and fail-proof semi-auto shotgun. I only own a Remmy Model 11 Sportsman - it's one sweet shotty. Takes a little to get used to the barrel reciprocating into the receiver - half the felt recoil but a little longer sensation, with double movement.

onefast93z28

09-16-2008, 06:30 PM

'97 Winchesters are the same too.

Laconian, thanks for mentioning Winchester's pumps.

lots of fun to do with my 97 riot gun...

Briggs

09-17-2008, 04:17 PM

1) by the time that mother ****er getsup the stairs To Harm anything my Mossberg 500A 20'' will be pointing in his face

2.)Seek answer to #1

I keep My Shotgun upstairs so if a window breaks i run upstairs to the closet , if i dont have time to get upstairs , a trusty 1911 is hiden downstairs, my house has been broken into twice while i wasnt home so id like to see them try it while i am home.

So, If I break into your house at ground level I should be looking for a 1911 and if I go upstairs I need to spot a Mossberg in a closet. Okily dokily :)

Briggs

09-17-2008, 04:25 PM

Now more seriously: Anyone shot any Browning Over & Under's?
(especially the Cynergy Composite or other Cynergy.)

Any idea's on a good O/U for clay pigeon shooting?
Semi automatics (few exceptions), full auto & pump action isn't allowed for 'sportive shooting'.

StukaJr

09-17-2008, 06:14 PM

The Mossberg also have a synthetic stock version, and like Remmington, there are camo versions too. You cannot go wrong with a Mossberg 500 / 590 or a Remmington 870. Both are used by the LE. And the Mossberg 500/590 is what is used by 22 militarys around the world as their shutgun. It has many features that make it a lot more reliable, such as the receiver does not get stressed when fireing, double extraction parts.

My experience with pump action shotguns, is they seem pretty much the same, small changes here and there, but basic design is based of the Remington 31 I believe, which became the Ithaca Model 37, which then lead to Remington and Others to enter back into the shotgun market.

I have Mossberg 590A1 - it's a little different from 500/590's in terms of heavy walled barrel and metal trigger guard... Mine is about 3 years old and parkerizing on it is very weak - it began showing bare steel on the magazine tube after a few test "rakes". Heavy barrel is nice but it makes the shotgun rather front and overall heavy - it makes it smoother shooter with heavy loads but not as easy to point and shoot... Ghost ring and front post sights are supperior to any shotgun sight I've seen - sights come up naturally. I get pissed off when tiny ghost ring is put on a scatter gun. Mossberg should have made a proper heat shield for it - stretching their standard heatshield is a dicey proposition (and scratches the park)... I ordered synthetic heat shield to try out - the whole gun is getting re-parked and painted up in the next couple of weeks.

I have a love/hate relationship with my Mossberg - the safety is set up in the way that makes it a good position for rifle stock but not PG/collapsible stock. Same with slide release. I'm under 5'9" and I have to really extend my support arm to properly grip the pump handle - I don't see why an issue weapon was not made with smaller humans in mind (weight of the shotgun is also very noticeable to the front, especially with 9 shells in the tube). I suppose Surefire rail interface with vertical grip in its closest notch will solve the problem. Heavy walled barrel is nice but it still gets hot - "you do not need a heatshield because of the heavy barrel" line is BS. Rear ghost ring sight assembly is overly complex and collects crud, rather impossible to clean out without being disassembled.

It's a great shotgun, just feels like M1A of shotguns.

Spaz

09-26-2008, 08:51 PM

I have a question for you shotgun enthusiasts:

I have been receiving threats recently from a criminal I helped gather evidence on. He stole about $20,000 of sporting equipment from users on a online forum. I found pictures of this person using the stolen equipment and reported it to one of the victims of this thief. I actually knew the thief, I had officiated in several events that he was participating in, for safety reasons, I won't say what sport.

Anyway, my father, who is a retired law-enforcement officer advised me to keep a shotgun near me when I am at home, and at sporting events that the thief could be attending. Unfortunately, the only shotgun I have is a Remington Model 1100 and a Remington .12 gauge, both meant for hunting, so I plan on buying a new gun, possibly 2. I am considering a Mossberg 500 Cruiser in .12 gauge, to keep in my car under a seat or another easy to access place. The Mossberg 500 Persuader Cruiser also caught my eye to keep in my home, alongside my .38 S&W. Are these good choices in your opinions? Any other help you can give me would be great.

Thanks!

Laconian

09-27-2008, 09:42 AM

1. As far as the shotgun at home, your current shotguns will fit the bill, unless the barrel lengths are so long that you can't effectively maneuver the gun indoors. That'll depend on both your house and ability to use the gun.
2. As far as keeping the shotgun near you at sporting events/public places you are attending, I would highly advise against it. First, you need to make sure it is legal to do so. In most cases, the gun would have to be unloaded, in a locked (or double locked container depending on local laws) container, ammo stored separately from the weapon. To put such a weapon to use in an emergency would be nearly impossib