Bush exploiting 9/11 in Election ads?

[Argyll]

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13006718,00.html

What do you guys think?
Lets not get into details just a simple Right or Wrong reply is suffice!!

And I'd be appreciated if this is left to the US members here as it has no bearing on Europeans whatsoever

[Resevoir Hogs]

I think it is right for him to point to his leadership in a time of crisis.
And I don't think there is anything wrong with seeing the footage from that day as it will only remind us of what happened and what we're fighting for. I know there are people who lost family and friends who feel the same way. Putting it out of sight and out of mind would be disgracing the memmory of the victims.

[Argyll]

My English must be fokin awful,as Im pretty sure I asked NO details,just a simple Right or Wrong!! ;)

[ReconNJ]

RIGHT!!



Watch Your Six!!

[Ichhabe]

My English must be fokin awful,as Im pretty sure I asked NO details,just a simple Right or Wrong!! ;)

Maybe he's a politician??? hehe...

And that is neither wrong or right. It is a shame!!!
(yeah, I've had a political history, but ain't that no more...)

[Argyll]

Shall I run this as a Poll and move it to the Off topic section?

I've a feeling that the Republicans will say Right
and the Democrats will say wrong!!

[Shake n Bake]

Right on

[front]

Shame.


---
["One Bush aide said the controversy gave the president's commercial priceless free publicity, with millions seeking clips of the ad."]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040304/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_political_ads

[Shake n Bake]

My English must be fokin awful,as Im pretty sure I asked NO details,just a simple Right or Wrong!! ;)

Maybe he's a politician??? hehe...

And that is neither wrong or right. It is a shame!!!
(yeah, I've had a political history, but ain't that no more...)



And I'd be appreciated if this is left to the US members here as it has no bearing on Europeans whatsoever

[KalleBalleSvartSk@lle]

He shouldn't be using people that are dead and therfore can't express their opinion in ads, some other ad using the 9/11 wouldn't be wrong, atleast not i that way.

[2Sheds_Jackson]

I'm gonna vote "NO" - but I do support the Prez using it in his ads.

He was our leader at the time. He did the work, he got things done - it's on his résumé. I don't consider it "exploitation" - it's a simple statement of historical fact, and a legitimate yardstick by which to measure his leadership.

[Trigger]

I voted 'Right', and that's because I have a problem with Argyll using the word 'Exploitation'. It would be exploitation if he were using it to incite hatred against Muslims. He's simply using it as 2Sheds said, to promote his leadership under crisis.

[Argyll]

Becuase thats what the news headline calls it Trigger.....exploitation

[Trigger]

Understood. I wrongly implied that you used that word, when you were just quoting the source.

I still think 'Exploitation' is being used to inflame the victims families for politcal purposes though. :|

[Argyll]

Yes I agree with you,To be honest I'm split 50/50 with this,sure GWB has done more on the War on Terror than any other Pres.and has to be commended........I actually like the guy...but I can't vote ,but if there are those who were involved in 9/11 and they have expressed their disgust in this tactic then they should be listened to!

[Tengu]

RIGHT ON.

9/11 was a big event with great consequences under his presidency.

[scm77]

I think they poll question should be changed. The poll asked if it was wrong or right for him to exploit images of 9/11 which of course is wrong.

It is however appropriate for him to use the images to reming americans of his great leadership throught that period.

I also find it funny how the firefighters that are complaining have signed on to endorse Kerry.

And I'm sick of families of 9/11 victims thinking the entire world revolves around them and everyone must do what they say.

P.S. I know that last thing I said will probably start a massive flame war, it wasn't intended to, just my opinions so for the sake of keeping this topic open don't start.

[EvanL]

Im not American but i believe i have the right to judge on this situation because i was affected by Sept 11th first hand.
I think its wrong to use the images of sept11th in his ad, specifically the one of the firemen carrying the flagged draped coffin out of ground zero. He has the right to say how he was president during the harsh times following sept11th, but he wasnt in NYC and had no relation to that situation at all.
ALot of ppl in NYC, yes even the republicans here, think its wrong for him to use those images.

[Shake n Bake]

And I'm sick of families of 9/11 victims thinking the entire world revolves around them and everyone must do what they say.


I agree

[EvanL]

I think they poll question should be changed. The poll asked if it was wrong or right for him to exploit images of 9/11 which of course is wrong.

It is however appropriate for him to use the images to reming americans of his great leadership throught that period.

I also find it funny how the firefighters that are complaining have signed on to endorse Kerry.

And I'm sick of families of 9/11 victims thinking the entire world revolves around them and everyone must do what they say.

P.S. I know that last thing I said will probably start a massive flame war, it wasn't intended to, just my opinions so for the sake of keeping this topic open don't start.
Suck my **** you inconsiderate ****.
You have no idea what kind of pain the 9/11 families are still going through.
Shut your mouth and keep out of this conversation.

[Seoulstriker]

he's not exploting 9/11. :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :-*$ :-*$

[EvanL]

he's not exploting 9/11. :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :-*$ :-*$
Explain how he isnt. Have you seen the ad?
Hes using images of fallen firemen, saying how he was the leader through tough times. If thats not exploiting it then i dont know what is.

[Ichhabe]

Im not American but i believe i have the right to judge on this situation because i was affected by Sept 11th first hand.
I think its wrong to use the images of sept11th in his ad, specifically the one of the firemen carrying the flagged draped coffin out of ground zero. He has the right to say how he was president during the harsh times following sept11th, but he wasnt in NYC and had no relation to that situation at all.
ALot of ppl in NYC, yes even the republicans here, think its wrong for him to use those images.

I feel that I also have a saying here since September 11. changed my life aswell.

I have seen the add, and it left a bad smell in my living room.

I see it as almost next to grave robbery.

T'ill my American friends; good luck with a nice clean election. You need it.

[Seoulstriker]

he's not exploting 9/11. :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :-*$ :-*$
Explain how he isnt. Have you seen the ad?
Hes using images of fallen firemen, saying how he was the leader through tough times. If thats not exploiting it then i dont know what is.


he was the leader during the worst terrorist attack on our country. he helped us persevere through adversity and to make the people who did it pay.

so he shouldn't remind people of what the country endured and how he led the country? :roll:

[Tengu]

Explain how he isnt. Have you seen the ad?
Hes using images of fallen firemen, saying how he was the leader through tough times. If thats not exploiting it then i dont know what is.He does NOT use images of FALLEN firemen.

[EvanL]

he's not exploting 9/11. :bash: :bash: :bash: :bash: :-*$ :-*$
Explain how he isnt. Have you seen the ad?
Hes using images of fallen firemen, saying how he was the leader through tough times. If thats not exploiting it then i dont know what is.


he was the leader during the worst terrorist attack on our country. he helped us persevere through adversity and to make the people who did it pay.

so he shouldn't remind people of what the country endured and how he led the country? :roll:What did he do? FLy aorund in air force one. If anyone has the right to use those images in an add it would be giuliani.
on 911 while you sat in your cramped dorm room smelling of semen surfing the internet, us here in NYC were running around frantically trying to find out where our friends and family were. Worrying about a second attack. Some neighbourhoods like mine you werent even allowed out at times because there was reason to believe that someone was planning something in the area.
So dont give me **** how he has the right to use that. He was the leader during that time, he wasnt here though. he was safe flying around in an airplane being escorted by fighter jets.
Once again seoulstriker, lick my nuts.

[EvanL]

Explain how he isnt. Have you seen the ad?
Hes using images of fallen firemen, saying how he was the leader through tough times. If thats not exploiting it then i dont know what is.He does NOT use images of FALLEN firemen.yes he does.
obviously you have not seen the ad. it includes footage of firemen carrying a coffin out of ground zero.

[Jack Mehoff]

EvanLloyd,

Aren't you the one who said that you don't care if Ducimus19 used fallen U.S. servicemen for his typical propaganda bull****? I guess some people can't practice what they preach :roll:

[EvanL]

EvanLloyd,

Aren't you the one who said that you don't care if Ducimus19 used fallen U.S. servicemen for his typical propaganda bull****? I guess some people can't practice what they preach :roll:
i never said i didnt care. i said he can use it if he wants. it still bothered me. but this is different. its the leader of the free world using images of 911 to help his cause for re-election. which i feel is wrong.
BTw- Jack arent you the one who couldnt decide on if it was his mother or father who was scottish?

[Jack Mehoff]

EvanLloyd,

Aren't you the one who said that you don't care if Ducimus19 used fallen U.S. servicemen for his typical propaganda bull****? I guess some people can't practice what they preach :roll:
i never said i didnt care. i said he can use it if he wants. it still bothered me. but this is different. its the leader of the free world using images of 911 to help his cause for re-election. which i feel is wrong.
BTw- Jack arent you the one who couldnt decide on if it was his mother or father who was scottish?

Why is my family has anything to do with you?

[Tengu]

yes he does.
obviously you have not seen the ad. it includes footage of firemen carrying a coffin out of ground zero.i have seen that scene. And anyone could be in that coffin. Doesn't matter anyway. It was a big event under his presidency with huge consequences.

[EvanL]

EvanLloyd,

Aren't you the one who said that you don't care if Ducimus19 used fallen U.S. servicemen for his typical propaganda bull****? I guess some people can't practice what they preach :roll:
i never said i didnt care. i said he can use it if he wants. it still bothered me. but this is different. its the leader of the free world using images of 911 to help his cause for re-election. which i feel is wrong.
BTw- Jack arent you the one who couldnt decide on if it was his mother or father who was scottish?

Why is my family has anything to do with you?
It has nothing to do with me and i am glad of that.

[EvanL]

yes he does.
obviously you have not seen the ad. it includes footage of firemen carrying a coffin out of ground zero.i have seen that scene. And anyone could be in that coffin. Doesn't matter anyway. It was a big event under his presidency with huge consequences.
Well i feel it is wrong tto use for his re-election campaign.

[Trigger]

What did he do? FLy aorund in air force one. If anyone has the right to use those images in an add it would be giuliani.
on 911 while you sat in your cramped dorm room smelling of semen surfing the internet, us here in NYC were running around frantically trying to find out where our friends and family were. Worrying about a second attack. Some neighbourhoods like mine you werent even allowed out at times because there was reason to believe that someone was planning something in the area.
So dont give me **** how he has the right to use that. He was the leader during that time, he wasnt here though. he was safe flying around in an airplane being escorted by fighter jets.
Once again seoulstriker, lick my nuts.
Hold on there Ev, He was in Florida during the attack. What else was he to do but 'fly around'? First priority when you don't know the scale of the attack is to protect the Prez. People who call that cowardly *glaring at Peter Jennings* are fu*king clueless bastards.

Secondly, and this may seem odd to you, but OBVIOUSLY we weren't ALL there. We don't ALL live in NY. So we had no choice but to sit in our 'cramped little rooms' and WISH we could be there to help you.

[EvanL]

What did he do? FLy aorund in air force one. If anyone has the right to use those images in an add it would be giuliani.
on 911 while you sat in your cramped dorm room smelling of semen surfing the internet, us here in NYC were running around frantically trying to find out where our friends and family were. Worrying about a second attack. Some neighbourhoods like mine you werent even allowed out at times because there was reason to believe that someone was planning something in the area.
So dont give me **** how he has the right to use that. He was the leader during that time, he wasnt here though. he was safe flying around in an airplane being escorted by fighter jets.
Once again seoulstriker, lick my nuts.
Hold on there Ev, He was in Florida during the attack. What else was he to do but 'fly around'? First priority when you don't know the scale of the attack is to protect the Prez. People who call that cowardly *glaring at Peter Jennings* are fu*king clueless bastards.

Secondly, and this may seem odd to you, but OBVIOUSLY we weren't ALL there. We don't ALL live in NY. So we had no choice but to sit in our 'cramped little rooms' and WISH we could be there to help you.
Well im not saying you guys who werent here are ****s for not doin anything. I was just lashing out at seoustriker cus i think his comments r idiotic.
i understand the president due to security reasons wouldnt be anywhere near NYC or washington for that matter. It just really ticks me off to see him using the images. Sure he has the right to use 911 and his reaction during the aftermath as a tool for his re-election, but to use the images which dont have anything to do with his handling of the situation, i personally feel is wrong.

[Tengu]

Well i feel it is wrong tto use for his re-election campaign.It would be wrong to use it in a beer add, but not this. I guess we have to agree to disagree.

[NcDeuce]

No, 9/11 should not be "exploited". Can we show images of it on TV, of course.

The man was Commander in Chief at the time. He was an American on 9/11 just like us, well at least some of us.

However, I haven't seen the commercial but I can't see how it would hurt one's feelings.

[Argyll]

Fok me,I go out for a few hours to celebrate my daughters 5th birthday,and still the educated people here cannot understand simple English........I asked for a simple right or wrong.........no other details as ,this is exactly the response I wanted to avoid,an out and out flame war.
But people still want to make a point!!

It was a point I did NOT want to hear about,just a simple Right or wrong.


I used the question contiaining the word "exploitation" as this is what the News headline accused it of,I also explained this to trigger,it WAS NOT MY HEADLINE!!!!!!

[Argyll]

No, 9/11 should not be "exploited". Can we show images of it on TV, of course.

The man was Commander in Chief at the time. He was an American on 9/11 just like us, well at least some of us.

However, I haven't seen the commercial but I can't see how it would hurt one's feelings.

I have not seen the commercial either,but if you'd have read the article ,then you'd have seen that there some who find it offensive,and some families have expressed their feelings of hurt.

[Salty Dog]

i am not really sure what i think. i think i need to see the ad first.

[EvanL]

*edit*

[EvanL]

Sorry is i stirred up the pot.
I wasnt looking to start any flame war.
And Argyll, happy birthday to the wee one.

[Argyll]

Don't take all the blame Evan,ther was more than yourself embroiled in this,and thanks we had a great time with my daughter!!

[Haiw]

Congrats.

Are you explointing her birthday to extuingish the flames? ;)

[Trigger]

Hey Argyll, best wishes to the little one!

[California Joe]

I worked on a base that had a magazine blow up that was chock full of propellant, the berms worked as intended and the explosion went straight up in the air. It happened to be the new CO's 3rd day in command. Not his fault but on his watch. He was retired.

9/11 happened on W's watch. Maybe we should have been paying more attention. Other than evoking an emotional response or spawning a new bunch of country music songs from viewers what purpose does it serve to bring up 9/11 in a campaign ad? Honestly. The ad is designed to recreate the swell of "patriotism" that people in this country felt after watching those people die. It's grandstanding. Something that people should expect during an election. We haven't brought the main perpetrator to justice yet, although we did beat the **** out of a country that wasn't involved and somehow manage to link the 2 in most ignorant peoples minds.

PS Happy Birthday little one.

[Trigger]

Argyll's gonna beat your ass for that commentary CJ. We're only supposed to answer 'Yes' or 'No', so I'll join you in taking the beating... :D

Scenes of 9/11 are being used to evoke an emotional reaction, but this has been the case with most tragedies in the last century wouldn't you say?
For instance: Pearl Harbor newsreels, or images of the Holocaust.

I think the people responsible for using the 9/11 images are trying to go for the 'united in crisis' feeling, if that makes sense.

As far as Iraq, they may not have played a role in 9/11, but I have little doubt they were involved in terrorism in general.
The War on Terror is not limited to only those involved in 9/11. IMHO.

[California Joe]

Argyll's gonna beat your ass for that commentary CJ. We're only supposed to answer 'Yes' or 'No', so I'll join you in taking the beating... :D

Scenes of 9/11 are being used to evoke an emotional reaction, but this has been the case with most tragedies in the last century wouldn't you say?
For instance: Pearl Harbor newsreels, or images of the Holocaust.

I think the people responsible for using the 9/11 images are trying to go for the 'united in crisis' feeling, if that makes sense.

As far as Iraq, they may not have played a role in 9/11, but I have little doubt they were involved in terrorism in general.
The War on Terror is not limited to only those involved in 9/11. IMHO.

Oh F you you homo blue gorilla. ;)
Look at the ad from a marketing standpoint. Hell, I'd use those images in a heartbeat. There was a groundswell of emotion that this country hasn't seen since Vietnam. But it was positive energy from a very negative event. Tapping into that is a very powerful tool. You're right about the "united in crisis" thing. You're right too that they played a role in terrorism. It's just that most people aren't as actively involved in current events and especially military ones like people here to know the difference and believe me that will be exploited.

[Trigger]

I have a feeling it's going to be a loooooong 8 months. ;)

In a way it is kind of smart though. Because Kerry can't use the images now either without looking like a copycat or like he's hammering GWB with the bodies of the dead.

[California Joe]

Oh it's brilliant. But it is marketing. The Republican party is very good at this stuff. They all worked for Lee Atwater. They know their stuff.

[Trigger]

We're smart an' stuff huh? :D

[Argyll]

and fokin hilarious too!!
Thanks for the Birthday wishes guys,CJ hit this issue on the head I feel,it's to Bring the Patriot in you out,however ,what about all the other US accomplishments that could be used ?

[usa320]

I think them images could have been left off. I think he would have been better showing the image of him with the bullhorn at ground zero.

I like Bush and his policies and morals, but i must agree this ad could have been done better.

Not to say he shouldnt be commended for his leadership in these times, as what we need is a Commander In Chief-and Bush does that well.

I just think there would have been better footage he could have used.

Also, if i was Bush, whoever came up with the ad would be in deep ****. Remember, Bush doesnt make these ads, his press people do. Frankly, im not a big fan of his new press secretary. I like Bush, but i think his cabinent sucks.

Personally, i would give cheney the boot and replace him with Powell, Make Tommy Franks the secretary of Defense, give Asscroft the boot as well. Id also replace Tenet at the CIA. And i would beg Ari Fleischer to come back.

The only cabinent members i would keep would be Powell and Rice. They are the only two who have made a consisten effort to stay foccused on the task at hand.

[Argyll]

I think them images could have been left off. I think he would have been better showing the image of him with the bullhorn at ground zero.

I like Bush and his policies and morals, but i must agree this ad could have been done better.

Not to say he shouldnt be commended for his leadership in these times, as what we need is a Commander In Chief-and Bush does that well.

I just think there would have been better footage he could have used.

Also, if i was Bush, whoever came up with the ad would be in deep ****. Remember, Bush doesnt make these ads, his press people do. Frankly, im not a big fan of his new press secretary. I like Bush, but i think his cabinent sucks.

Personally, i would give cheney the boot and replace him with Powell, Make Tommy Franks the secretary of Defense, give Asscroft the boot as well. Id also replace Tenet at the CIA. And i would beg Ari Fleischer to come back.

The only cabinent members i would keep would be Powell and Rice. They are the only two who have made a consisten effort to stay foccused on the task at hand.

Good points there 320!!

[NcDeuce]

And i would beg Ari Fleischer to come back.

woot :hug: woot

[hank]

Hate to disagree - but am I the only one who thinks that these "family" members are motivated not by their grief but by their hatred of Bush.

I watched the Katie Couric interview this morning and it had very little to do with the ad and a lot to do with them blaming Bush for the WTC attack. Now, if they are really outraged at the ads - then talk about the ads - but that was hardly discussed.

This really smacks of a Dem ploy to try and hurt Bush on an issue that the Dems know will ultimately kill them. Let's not forget that Clinton won b/c he and Carville learned from Atwater also!

I think Bush got his hand forced on this for the reason that somebody else mentioned. If Bush did not pre-empt Kerry then Kerry would have used the images against him. By handling it this way EARLY- Bush gets to draw first blood and then take the high ground. Marketing maybe - but damned good marketing IMHO.

By the way - this ploy of quickly outspending your opponent while the opponent's primaries are still on is a tactic the Dems know well. They buried Dole with it. All's fair in love and war, as they say.

Not my first choice to go this route - but you have to hit quick or you give Kerry an opportunity.

hank

[EvanL]

I was watching the news while on the treadmill at the gym, and they had a piece on this exact issue. Alot of ppl are mad because apparently bush promised in a speech not to use the site for political reasons. And ppl are now lashing out at the republican party for betraying them and breaking their promise.

[California Joe]

Newsflash people: Politicians are dirty whores. If you blindly follow you are just another crippled retard in a barrel waiting to be shot.

[hank]

Newsflash people: Politicians are dirty whores. If you blindly follow you are just another crippled retard in a barrel waiting to be shot.

that is true

hank

[budanski]

Its only exploitation when Republicans use it....Vietnam and 9/11 is fair game to everyone else (http://www.johnkerry.com/video/courage_final_real_modem.ram)

[California Joe]

Don't be an angry monkey. No one likes and angry monkey.

[budanski]

I'm just craving for attention.

[California Joe]

OK, that's alright then. ;)

[Shake n Bake]

Hate to disagree - but am I the only one who thinks that these "family" members are motivated not by their grief but by their hatred of Bush.

I watched the Katie Couric interview this morning and it had very little to do with the ad and a lot to do with them blaming Bush for the WTC attack. Now, if they are really outraged at the ads - then talk about the ads - but that was hardly discussed.

This really smacks of a Dem ploy to try and hurt Bush on an issue that the Dems know will ultimately kill them. Let's not forget that Clinton won b/c he and Carville learned from Atwater also!

I think Bush got his hand forced on this for the reason that somebody else mentioned. If Bush did not pre-empt Kerry then Kerry would have used the images against him. By handling it this way EARLY- Bush gets to draw first blood and then take the high ground. Marketing maybe - but damned good marketing IMHO.

By the way - this ploy of quickly outspending your opponent while the opponent's primaries are still on is a tactic the Dems know well. They buried Dole with it. All's fair in love and war, as they say.

Not my first choice to go this route - but you have to hit quick or you give Kerry an opportunity.

hank


www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1091579/posts

They are being funded by Teresa Heinz...And coached by the Dems.


Now that's a real shame..

[hank]

Hate to disagree - but am I the only one who thinks that these "family" members are motivated not by their grief but by their hatred of Bush.

I watched the Katie Couric interview this morning and it had very little to do with the ad and a lot to do with them blaming Bush for the WTC attack. Now, if they are really outraged at the ads - then talk about the ads - but that was hardly discussed.

This really smacks of a Dem ploy to try and hurt Bush on an issue that the Dems know will ultimately kill them. Let's not forget that Clinton won b/c he and Carville learned from Atwater also!

I think Bush got his hand forced on this for the reason that somebody else mentioned. If Bush did not pre-empt Kerry then Kerry would have used the images against him. By handling it this way EARLY- Bush gets to draw first blood and then take the high ground. Marketing maybe - but damned good marketing IMHO.

By the way - this ploy of quickly outspending your opponent while the opponent's primaries are still on is a tactic the Dems know well. They buried Dole with it. All's fair in love and war, as they say.

Not my first choice to go this route - but you have to hit quick or you give Kerry an opportunity.

hank


www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1091579/posts

They are being funded by Teresa Heinz...And coached by the Dems.


Now that's a real shame..

I assume you mean the family members? As for Heinz - she has always been the source of Kerry's money so this is not new - but you are right to mention it.

hank