(UK)Teen gun wars: cops swoop on 13 homes

[Geezah]

THE fightback against North Liverpool's teen gun gangs began today. Police stormed homes in Croxteth and Norris Green, seizing suspected gang members, drugs and airguns.

Within seconds of collecting samples from one home, officers discovered TNT explosive had been handled by people inside.

At another address, detectives discovered photographs of guns pinned to a wall along with a list of names of suspected members of the Croxteth Crew gang.

More than 100 officers from the anti-gang Matrix unit and local police raided 13 houses in Croxteth and Norris Green to collect evidence to smash the gangs plaguing the two estates.

The operation followed the joint call by the ECHO and Merseyside police for locals to speak out against the two gangs which have terrorised their neighbourhoods with a spate of shootings over drugs turf.

Senior officers have already identified at least one so-called gun "librarian" believed to be holding and lending weapons to youngsters from the age of 13 on the estates.

Some of the houses raided today showed visible damage of having been blasted in tit-fortat shootings.

Early this morning officers targeted the homes of ten suspected members of the Croxteth Crew - the gang battling it out in the area with the Norris Green-based Strand Crew.

By 9am three people had been arrested and taken in for questioning on suspicion of drugs offences and being involved in the gun gang.

More suspects were still being held and questioned by officers, who used new hi-tech equipment in a mobile station to test samples for drugs and different types of explosives.

Det Supt Geoff Sloan of Merseyside police said: "We will sustain these operations on the estates as long as we need to.

"The finding of the explosives shows that we are on the right track and that people at these addresses are either making ammunition or handling it.

"You do not expect to find TNT in the average home."

A total of 14 teenagers have been shot and injured on the two estates in the last 14 months as the drugs war has escalated from playground rows to street violence.

Anyone with information about gun crime should contact police on 0800 555 111.

* THE raids took place at homes in Totnes Road; Sceptre Road; Mansion Drive; Ampulla Road; Throne Road; Willow Way; Winhowe Road; Sovereign Road; Newdown Road; Silverwell Road; Dodman Road; Delabole Road; Middle Way.

* A KEY tool in today's raids was a £35,000 analysis machine which revealed vital forensic information within five seconds.

The machine, usually used by officers to test for drugs such as cocaine, heroin and speed, was specially-converted yesterday to expand its remit to also show traces of TNT, semtex, nitro-glycerine or other explosive chemical compounds.

Officers took swabs from suspects' hands, clothes and homes and fed them into the analysis machine. It took just five seconds to read the sample and produce a chemical breakdown of the traces.

Link (http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=16792898%26method=full%26siteid=50061%26page=1%26headline=teen%2dgun%2dwars%2d%2dcops%2dswoop%2don%2d13%2dhomes-name_page.html)

So we now have TNT on the streets of Britain.........

[Hollis]

The funny part, back in the 60's the UK was considered safer than the US on violent crimes. Todays report, BBC, NRA ect, Violent crimes in the UK is 2 1/2 times greater then those gun totten colonialist in the USA. Same in Austrialia. So banning guns work, especially if your a violent criminal.

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

The funny part, back in the 60's the UK was considered safer than the US on violent crimes. Todays report, BBC, NRA ect, Violent crimes in the UK is 2 1/2 times greater then those gun totten colonialist in the USA. Same in Austrialia. So banning guns work, especially if your a violent criminal.You are very much mistaken HOLLiS if you believe all guns are banned in the UK, only certain types of guns, most pistols are banned along with self loading full bore rifles. 1960’s Britain was probably safer than the US at that time but even then my US kin in Brooklyn, New York never complained about crime until the 80’s.

[Hollis]

You are very much mistaken HOLLiS if you believe all guns are banned in the UK, only certain types of guns, most pistols are banned along with self loading full bore rifles. 1960’s Britain was probably safer than the US at that time but even then my US kin in Brooklyn, New York never complained about crime until the 80’s.

I knew not all guns were banned. Sorry there, Sadly the guns best for self protection are banned.

Were I live one can own single shot pistols, rifles, and shot guns all the way to full auto types. Our local gun club has a full auto shoot, where members can bring their full autos in and let others try them. For me, the ban in the UK is pretty complete in a practical sense.

There is more recording of violent crimes today. Interesting the Brady bill was designed to reduce firearm violance. Upon being voted on again to continue that ban, facts actually showned that the Brady bill exasperated and added to violence.

There is more information today that adds merit to the Right of Personal defense (ownership of firearms) that was not available in the 60's. It seems not only to despotic governments love a unarmed society but so does criminals.

MY daughter with her "pocket" pistol

[joe mama]

You are very much mistaken HOLLiS if you believe all guns are banned in the UK, only certain types of guns, most pistols are banned along with self loading full bore rifles. 1960’s Britain was probably safer than the US at that time but even then my US kin in Brooklyn, New York never complained about crime until the 80’s.

So what, EXACTLY is allowed? From the comments you and others make when you assure us gun nuts not all guns are banned, it sounds liek the only guns that aren't banned are damn near useless, and it's hard as hell to get even those.
I think you need to realize that when we say they're banned, we mean the guns that are effective. Single shot pistols, rifles, shotguns, if that's all that aren't banned, pretty much equals a total ban.

[ZaakM433]

only single shot pistols? so, for example your average glock, sig, or walther would be fine?

[Hollis]

only single shot pistols? so, for example your average glock, sig, or walther would be fine?

those are auto loaders a NO NO, Maybe a old tower pistol, it was single shot then you had to reload it manually. Single shooters have no magazines, no cylanders, only one round, the gun is open and a round is loaded by hand into the cylendar.

[ZaakM433]

those are auto loaders a NO NO, Maybe a old tower pistol, it was single shot then you had to reload it manually. Single shooters have no magazines, no cylanders, only one round, the gun is open and a round is loaded by hand into the cylendar.

i mistook what he was saying

[Mr Gently Benevolent]

So what, EXACTLY is allowed? From the comments you and others make when you assure us gun nuts not all guns are banned, it sounds liek the only guns that aren't banned are damn near useless, and it's hard as hell to get even those.
I think you need to realize that when we say they're banned, we mean the guns that are effective. Single shot pistols, rifles, shotguns, if that's all that aren't banned, pretty much equals a total ban.Free pistols are allowed along with long barreled revolvers with the wrist stirrup, repeating rifles are allowed though not semi auto’s, rifles can be suppressed. Getting an firearms license is not difficult if you are a fit person and have a reason for firearms ownership you actually have to prove to the police that you have a suitable place to use the weapons such as land or a range. I have more than a few mates with rifles including one with a suppressed Steyer Scout and none of them ever had problems getting a license.

[Pindeho]

section 5 firearms(autos), if anyone has these as a civie they're incredibly trustworthy or they are held illigally, the only people authorised to ues them is the Mil, and the police forces. Bolt action full bores are owned by quite a lot of people but semis(unless .22) are illigal. I was offered a Glock 17 PAK blankfirer, which can be converted very very easily.

[joe mama]

Free pistols are allowed along with long barreled revolvers with the wrist stirrup, repeating rifles are allowed though not semi auto’s, rifles can be suppressed. Getting an firearms license is not difficult if you are a fit person and have a reason for firearms ownership you actually have to prove to the police that you have a suitable place to use the weapons such as land or a range. I have more than a few mates with rifles including one with a suppressed Steyer Scout and none of them ever had problems getting a license.

WTF is a "free pistol"? Long barreled revolvers with a wrist setup? How long a barrel and wtf is a wrist setup?
Basically it sounds like semi autos and normal revolvers, ie the guns that are EFFECTIVE for anything other than target shooting, IE effective for self defense, are banned? If that's the case, then that's why you hear people from the US describing the situation as no handguns allowed. No handguns that are effective for self defense = no handguns to our way of thinking.

So lever action and bolt action (ie they have a magazine, but it's internal, not removable) rifles are ok? That's better than some kind of break open the barrel, load one at a time I guess, but I still see the belief that some guns are ok and others are not as flawed. If you can't trust someone with a semi auto rifle or pistol, for example, how can they be trusted with any gun? (This is me echoing the opinion of the Detective Lieutenant from my town's police department on why they only give the least restricted gun license our state offers - they can either trust you with a gun or they can't, there's no inbetween.)

Part of why you hear us gun nuts from the US thinking your ban is total is becuase it bans the truly effective guns. I think alot of us understand that the second amendment wasn't intended to try to protect people's ability to have a gun for hunting, because that needs constitutional protection no more than your right to have an axe or a shovel or a bow and arrow or knife or any dangerous item that has practical uses. And it wasn't intended to try to protect your ability to have a gun to defend yourself or your home from criminals, because, again, that shouldn't need constitutional protection any more than having a baseball bat in your house for home defense needs protection. I think the intention, based on the way it's written and especially based on who was writing it (men who's guns were going to be taken away by the government because they might use those guns to resist/overthrow that government), is to try to make sure that the government they were creating couldn't, if it ever turned into what it was intended to replace, try to do the same thing.

[Oddbod]

"Long barreled revolvers with a wrist setup? How long a barrel and wtf is a wrist setup?"
Minimum barrel length is 12" & the whole thing must be at least 24" long, hence the wire "wrist brace" or fitting of a counterbalance.

I'm going through the process of returning to shooting after nearly 30 years absence.

[joe mama]

"Long barreled revolvers with a wrist setup? How long a barrel and wtf is a wrist setup?"
Minimum barrel length is 12" & the whole thing must be at least 24" long, hence the wire "wrist brace" or fitting of a counterbalance.

I'm going through the process of returning to shooting after nearly 30 years absence.

I've never seen such a thing. Sounds weird/interesting...