Milsurp rifle collecting tips

[K-So]

Hey everybody, :grin: my first post!

Been very impressed by the wealth of knowlegde on this forum, decided to join in. (hopefully not dropping the site's overall IQ in the process, lol)


I've got a problem, an addiction you could say. I caught the milsurp collecting bug. (no cure from what I can tell). I've been into military history (WWII mainly), then a friend gave me a catalog from Century Arms, then I went to my first military gun show in January, It's been downhill ever since. I've got a small collection started,

Was hoping I could get some insight into people's experience in collecting milsurp items (rifles of WWII mainly).

Looking for any input on:
--Experiences with major milsurp dealers - good, bad, ugly
--What to look at before purchasing a rifle (at a gun show)
--Typical things to look at before firing a milsurp
--Best gun, worst gun
--Stories on your experiences


I've got a Mosin-Nagant M1938, M91/30, and an Enfield Mk4. No.1 currently, hoping to take them out on the range.

Thanks for your time,
Looking forward to many more posts.
K-So

[Limeyfellow]

The best thing you can do is get a Curio and Relics license from the BATF. For $30 for 3 years it allows companies to send these firearms directly to your door and gives you access to the cheaper internet sales and distributers without an expensive ffl transfer costs it would normally cost. Aim Surplus, Interordinance, Southern Ohio Gunworks, Century International and many others are well known groups who will fix any problems you really get.

If you want US surplus the best thing is to qualify for the cmp programme. This way you can get M1 Garands, M1903s for much cheaper than they would be at the gunshows, though the Garand supply is really starting to get low.

Things to look for are pretty much with any rifle. A good shiny bright bore, lack of pitting, rust and making sure everything is in good mechanical order and the parts are there. You might like to check out some page like Surplusrifles.com that have a take down of each rifle and you can see what parts are in there.

[Mastermind]

I've also been "bit" by the C&R bug. I applied for my license in January...and I'm still waiting...but, so far, no rejection notices. I have my shopping list all arranged as soon as I get it. AIM is great site, so is Impact. Of course, the C&R license allows you to buy really older stuff...but the M-1 Garand is onmy list, too...they want about $600.00 through the CMP site and they put several requirements on you before they let you buy one. I'm really interested in older bolt action German, Sweedish, Persian, English and Russian weapons as collector's items.

[onefast93z28]

As was said above a C&R is a real good thing to have.

For several US rifles got to www.odcmp.com good people fast shipping (right to your door no FFl or C&R needed) and great prices. The CMP requirments are not that bad, mostly the same as buying anywhere else expect you must be part of a CMP club (I belong to the Garand Collectors Ass. $20 yearly dues but a lot of good info availiable through them) and proof of marksmanship activity (just have your local rangemaster sign the form on their site) and your done.

Don't worry to much on the supply of Garands, trust me they have plenty of them ;) The backorders are just because they are behind on shipping, they used to have a large army of voulenteers but had to stop due to insureance reasons. At any rate they should have enough M1s for the next 3-4 years.

The CMP is great for getting M1s, M1903s (sadly no more 1903A3s) and M1917s. Plus they have some other stuff from time to time (just had M1 carbine recievers for sale not long ago)

@ Mastermind: If your just looking for a shooter the Field grade M1s are a great deal, they are in very good condition. I own one and know many people who also have them.

[Mastermind]

Thanks, Onefast...great info. My budget right now is for about 2,000 worth this year. I better get on the stick for the Garand, though...when they are gone...the price will go sky high. I did talk to one guy who had one but was scared of it...says it kicked too hard...I was immediately more interested in getting one. I think the kick of the German 8mm Mauser is hard but manageable. I also like the idea of upgrading the Mausers for accuracy with the new composite stocks and a few other simple mods. I have never fired anything I felt more confident in being able to take down a target at longer rnages. My experience has mostly been with the assault rifles, 25 - 250 yards. But the old addage, "one shot-one kill" really intrigues me. I want to find out first hand if I have the ability to develop that kind of skill out to 800 yards.

[onefast93z28]

Kicked too hard? The recoil is stout but it's 9 pound weight soaks up most of it. My Dad's lever action .308 kicks worse. If you can handle the K98 you'll be fine.

If you intend to shoot the M1 at 800 yeards your gonna needed to rebarrel it with a match barrel. It will reach that far but I doubt you'll hit the paper with a 60 year old barrel :)

[Limeyfellow]

I've also been "bit" by the C&R bug. I applied for my license in January...and I'm still waiting...but, so far, no rejection notices. I have my shopping list all arranged as soon as I get it. AIM is great site, so is Impact. Of course, the C&R license allows you to buy really older stuff...but the M-1 Garand is onmy list, too...they want about $600.00 through the CMP site and they put several requirements on you before they let you buy one. I'm really interested in older bolt action German, Sweedish, Persian, English and Russian weapons as collector's items.

Once you got your C&R license you almost completed the requirements for the cmp right there. Then you simply have to join a cmp affiliated group, and if there is not one around look on the net for the Garand Collecters Association. It costs about $40 or so to join I believe and that will complete the cmp requirements for you. Military service also passes the requirement as does taking part in competitions and a bunch of other stuff.

My wife missed out on getting one of their M1917s since I can't qualify for it not being a US citizen, though I do get to use the 1903 she got.

Most of my C&R tends to be British and commonwealth with some Russian and other pieces thrown in. Next on my list is the Enfield mk2 revolver in .38 calibre.

[Mastermind]

I understand one of the best "out of the box" long shooters is the Nosin Nagant sniper ...I intend to find that out first hand.

[GeraldDuval]

Enfield Mk4. No.1
excellent choice. My pick for the best bolt action rifle of the war. I have a Mauser, Nagant and a No4 Mk1, and the enfield is by far my favorite...

*edit* i'm an idiot and can't spell...

[Mastermind]

Good info Gerald....why do you like the Enfield so much?

[GeraldDuval]

I prefer the enfield over other bolt actions of the war for several reasons.

1.) It has a detachable 10 round magazine. Firepower is key. The british and canadian riflemen could lay down a sustained fire longer than any other axis or allied rifleman.

2.) the bolt design. Unlike any other bolt action rifle that I know of, the Lee-Enfield charges by pushing the bolt forward, not down. At first this feels clunky and stupid. But thats only at low speed. When firing from the shoulder as fast as you can, it feels like a dream. since most soldiers firing a bolt action put more force in the in/out rather than the up/down motion, it just makes more sense.
There was a report where germans attacked a british trenchline in WW1. They fell back because they thought they were facing massed machine guns. The bolt design allowed the brits to fire much faster than the germans even thought possible.

3.) safety. The enfield's safety is a switch that can be move with the thumb only. The safety on the mauser and Nagant (nagant is especially bad) are very loud and require much more force and a free hand to engage/disengage them.
It also has a hole drilled in the side of the reciever to vent gasses in the event of a burst case

4.) self contained cleaning kit. everything that you need to clean the rifle is housed in the butstock. both nagant and mauser only contain the cleaning rods.

5.) it's designed for a bayonet. unlike most other rifles, the enfield was designed with the bayonet in mind. It's a sipke bayonet, so it doesn't look nearly as nice as any other, but that also means deep puncture wounds and no worries about getting the blade caught. Not to mention the rifle is balanced better with bayonet attached. Most pics of commonwealth troops i've seen, they've been fixed.

6.) better battle sights. This is a personal preference really. The enfield uses a tront post and adjustable rear apature. the mauser and nagant use a V nock instead.

7.) easily adjustable headspace. The front part of the bolt simply screws off and a longer/shorter one can be screwed on. The mauser and nagant need MUCH more work than that.

8.) easier to use when dirty. The chamber was made larger because all of englands colonies were producing ammo, and the size varied slightly. as a side effect, it had less fouling/jamming problems after getting really gross.

9.) better stopping power. The Mk VII ammo had an aluminum insert in the rear of the projectile to shift the weight. When it was going down range, it was jast barely stable, but when it hit it tumbled in all sorts of directions, causing some pretty bad wounds.
Plus I just like the .303 British more than 8mm Mauser (but thats a whole nother argument)

[K-So]

Great info on the enfield Gerald!

I have a feeling I will be getting a few enfields. I'm tearing apart the one I have right now, it was choked with cosmoline. Built one of the "easy bake" ovens off of surplusrifle.com - works like a charm!!

Got my C&R in the mail on monday, so I'm ready to blow some of my life savings!!:)

Does anybody know, are milsurps from Century Arms generally ready to shoot (good to VG condition) right out of the box (after cleaning of course)? Or should I have them checked out by a gunsmith regardless?

Thanks for the info everybody.woot

[onefast93z28]

I say have the headspace checked, if that fine it should be good to go

[sergey31]

My C&R expires in a few mounts...... I don't plan to renew it and my C&R bug that bit me has died. Modern handgun bug tried to bite me several times but I keep killing it. I found him on my bed last night again trying to bite me..... Damn gun bugs, I must say girlfriends are good allies when it comes to exterminating those bugs and since I'm single now they are keep coming and it's hard to fight them on my own. :(