TNI in Gallery (the New Photos)

[TheBroncos]

Yes, local launchers. I heard it's accurate upto 200miles. Anyone has specs on the NDL? I have seen pictures of the mobile version too. I dont know why we dont mass produce standardized local products like NDL, ANOA, etc

EDIT... Just read the specs at janes, its targeting system is good for 200miles.. rocket distance of 6km-8.5km depending on the motor.. huh? Anyone can clarify on the targeting system.

[ggk]

Yes, local launchers. I heard it's accurate upto 200miles. Anyone has specs on the NDL? I have seen pictures of the mobile version too. I dont know why we dont mass produce standardized local products like NDL, ANOA, etc

200miles...... are you sure man....thats like 300 km

[TheBroncos]

200miles...... are you sure man....thats like 300 km

heck yeah.. ! NOT.. its the targeting system i guess.. the rockets are good for upto 8,5KM.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/ndl-40.htm

http://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/jaa/jaa_0612.html

[Aghost]

That's old model guys, I think the new one looks smooth
http://i350.photobucket.com/albums/q430/jhon_ipenk/nd40_001.jpg
I heard they developed the mobile unit but don't know the platform, some rumor says it will be use Perkasa truck but some says will be Pindad APC platform

[Johanus Bau]

That's old model guys, I think the new one looks smooth

I heard they developed the mobile unit but don't know the platform, some rumor says it will be use Perkasa truck but some says will be Pindad APC platform

That looks awesome, where was the photo taken?

[r0m8470]

heck yeah.. ! NOT.. its the targeting system i guess.. the rockets are good for upto 8,5KM.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/ndl-40.htm

http://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/jaa/jaa_0612.html





I think what FAS wrote is not miles but angular mil (which approximates miliradian). It should not be called a targeting system - sighting system is more like it.

It's a pretty common unit of measure for rifle sights (telescopic type). Some of the older jets use angular mil on their gunsight for air to ground work - F-5A is an example I think ....

[mr. kurien]

i guess that is the new version of NDL-40... whats the specs and ranges? i also think that this system can be fitted on navy ships and patrol crafts

[henzai]

PTDI (Indonesian Aerospace) is working out a closer cooperative agreement with Alliant Techsystems International Mission Group 'Special Mission Aircraft Business, a leading and prominent company in the field of aerospace and defense from Minneapolis, Minnesota (USA).

The MoU between the two companies is signed today by Vice President Director, Budi Santoso and ATK Vice President and General Manager, David L. Sharpen on March 11, 2009 in Jakarta.

According to Budi Santoso, Alliant Techsystems Inc (ATK) and PT Dirgantara Indonesia (Persero) have agreed to work together to explore and asses airborne intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (ISR) opportunities and initiatives leading to a future cooperative business relationship.

So far PTDI has successfully marketed its maritime patrol aircraft for both domestic and foreign uses, namely four CN-235 MPA for the Republic of South Korea, one unit of CN-235 MPA for the Indonesian Air Force and one unit of C-212 MPA for the Indonesian Navy.

Another PTDI experience in this field is MPA system application on the CN-235 operated by the Air Force and Navy of Turkey.

is this about cooperation of advance MPA system or stealth wing....:roll:???



ATK builds the wing skins for the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

[Jagi]

Hey guys,I'm sorta new to this military stuff but I'm glad to know that the Indonesian military now seems better than few years back. Anyway,I'd like your opinion on the Indonesian aerospace industry majorly represented by IAe. If the gov't or IAe,in the future,would like to create a joint venture in new aircraft R&D for military purposes,let's say an advance combat aircraft,with an asian country;between Japan,China,Korea and India which one do you think would be the most suitable partner?:roll:

Nice to meet you guys by the way,yoroshiku..woot:):|:-(

[mr. kurien]

welcome man...

[Aghost]

Found this on the net (local forum and blog), pictures taken by visitor when visit PT DI hangar. I think PT. DI trying to develop jet trainer based on G-2 super Galeb, but it's never published
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn206/fcaesarn/GALEB-2.jpg?t=1237677790

The plane on the background written experimental on it's body
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7pwMktpJjdA/SLKjyMZTthI/AAAAAAAAAfQ/ndgSUYDjYUU/s1600/DSCN4596.JPG

[toukairin]

Found this on the net (local forum and blog), pictures taken by visitor when visit PT DI hangar. I think PT. DI trying to develop jet trainer based on G-2 super Galeb, but it's never published
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn206/fcaesarn/GALEB-2.jpg?t=1237677790

The plane on the background written experimental on it's body
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7pwMktpJjdA/SLKjyMZTthI/AAAAAAAAAfQ/ndgSUYDjYUU/s1600/DSCN4596.JPG

Sorry to say, Sir, but i've visited the PT.DI, and this is THE SOKO Galeb... not an aircraft based on the Galeb. I know because i'm kinda 'duped' entering the Aerospace Engineering at my campus, because of their promotion pamphlete that the students can have a test run in the SOKO Galeb... it never materialized. Well, if i'm in America, i'd certainly sue their arse...

[karbol]

Hey guys,I'm sorta new to this military stuff but I'm glad to know that the Indonesian military now seems better than few years back. Anyway,I'd like your opinion on the Indonesian aerospace industry majorly represented by IAe. If the gov't or IAe,in the future,would like to create a joint venture in new aircraft R&D for military purposes,let's say an advance combat aircraft,with an asian country;between Japan,China,Korea and India which one do you think would be the most suitable partner?:roll:

Nice to meet you guys by the way,yoroshiku..woot:):|:-(

welcome mate...

i think Korea will be the one. coz, we already have a lot agreement with them...

[karbol]

Found this on the net (local forum and blog), pictures taken by visitor when visit PT DI hangar. I think PT. DI trying to develop jet trainer based on G-2 super Galeb, but it's never published


The plane on the background written experimental on it's body
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_7pwMktpJjdA/SLKjyMZTthI/AAAAAAAAAfQ/ndgSUYDjYUU/s1600/DSCN4596.JPG

i took the pics when i visit PT.DI, and i have post it in this site a long time ago.

just like toukairin said, it was SOKO GALEB. the PT.DI buy this plane around '90 and use it as a chaser aircraft for N-250 development. that's why it use the word 'EXPERIMENTAL'...

[Kopassus]

Aghost, the second picture isnt visible...

[Kopassus]

i took the pics when i visit PT.DI, and i have post it in this site a long time ago.

just like toukairin said, it was SOKO GALEB. the PT.DI buy this plane around '90 and use it as a chaser aircraft for N-250 development. that's why it use the word 'EXPERIMENTAL'...
Afaik the Galeb was even assembled by IPTN...

[Jagi]

Thx karbol I never knew that S.Korea and Indonesia are such good buds...
Yea I heard about their trainer jet T-50 program and KF-X
Man,I sure do hope that Indonesia can get involved on the KF-X program...somehow. Guys,I've been reading some comments on another forum about that Mirage thing that the Indonesian DoD declined,some say it's a foolish decision blablabla and some actually agree with it,but I guess DoD did the right thing maybe cause of political thigs going on,you know pakistan wanted those Mirages but Qatar don't wanna sell it to them,instead they wanted to give it to Indonesia for some reason...real somethin huh:roll::roll:

[Kopassus]

I've a question, Are there any rules/laws about military uniforms and barets.
Every second grade political party has an own 'army', even our national pedofil has his own 'Special Unit'.
http://www.kaltimpost.web.id/uploads/berita/dir07032009/img07032009169711.jpg
This can be very confusing, i think this is also one of the reasons why our Army Special Forces has a bad reputation in East Timor, if Aitarak militiamen or Fretilinterrorists commit human right abuse/warcrimes, the western press always pointing to Kopassus. In my opninion they are the only ones who have the right to wear a red baret.

Also, what about the blue lights on top of cars? Radiostations, civillians, everybody can have a car disguised like a policecar, including the "pop pooop" horn.

[Johanus Bau]

I've a question, Are there any rules/laws about military uniforms and barets.
Every second grade political party has an own 'army', even our national pedofil has his own 'Special Unit'.
http://www.kaltimpost.web.id/uploads/berita/dir07032009/img07032009169711.jpg


Who the hell is this goose? Syekh Puji da Paedophile? ha ha ha... Looks like his 'Special Unit' are made up of badut2... They forgot to put on their red noses and huge shoes!

[TheBroncos]

Thx karbol I never knew that S.Korea and Indonesia are such good buds...
Yea I heard about their trainer jet T-50 program and KF-X
Man,I sure do hope that Indonesia can get involved on the KF-X program...somehow. Guys,I've been reading some comments on another forum about that Mirage thing that the Indonesian DoD declined,some say it's a foolish decision blablabla and some actually agree with it,but I guess DoD did the right thing maybe cause of political thigs going on,you know pakistan wanted those Mirages but Qatar don't wanna sell it to them,instead they wanted to give it to Indonesia for some reason...real somethin huh:roll::roll:

The govt can start by encouraging and buying more local products.

[Johanus Bau]

I've a question, Are there any rules/laws about military uniforms and barets.
Every second grade political party has an own 'army', even our national pedofil has his own 'Special Unit'.

This can be very confusing, i think this is also one of the reasons why our Army Special Forces has a bad reputation in East Timor, if Aitarak militiamen or Fretilinterrorists commit human right abuse/warcrimes, the western press always pointing to Kopassus. In my opninion they are the only ones who have the right to wear a red baret.

Also, what about the blue lights on top of cars? Radiostations, civillians, everybody can have a car disguised like a policecar, including the "pop pooop" horn.

The law states that people cannot pretend to be Polri and TNI and wear their uniforms or make their vehicles look like military or police vehicles.... there have been many cases where people pretend to be TNI (with fake ID) to get free travel or parking or even try and extort money from villagers...that is definitely illegal and TNI cracks down on those palsu dudes.

Btw, Kopassus did commit some bad atrocities during the Orde Baru period not just to the East Timorese but also to their own people to... thank god they are more reformed now and not controlled by madmen like PS. Oops, he is running for President isn't he?

[Kopassus]

19 March 2009

DIRGANTARA DELIVERS NBO-105 TO NATIONAL ARMY



Dirgantara Indonesia delivers a unit of NBO-105 CBS helicopter to Indonesian Army.
</I>It is the 122nd product and the latest aircraft of the license agreement of Dirgantara and Messerschmit Bolkow Blohm (MBB) and also the 25th national army’s helicopter.
</I>Indonesian Army has been operating some Dirgantara products and the currently
</I>delivered one is the 25th national army’s helicopter and expectedly able to support national Army Defense.
</I>
</I>The delivery, which is the realization of December 2007 contract order and takes place at Dirgantara hangar on Thursday, 19 March 2009, is personally signed by Dirgantara President, Budi Santoso and Indonesian Army Logistics Assistant, Mayor General Hari Krisnomo, SIP.
</I>
</I>Hari Krisnomo states that the delivery shows the serious willing of Indonesian
</I>government to use the products of national strategic state-owned enterprises and to make use the technology transfer.

[sepia]

I've a question, Are there any rules/laws about military uniforms and barets.
Every second grade political party has an own 'army', even our national pedofil has his own 'Special Unit'.
http://www.kaltimpost.web.id/uploads/berita/dir07032009/img07032009169711.jpg
This can be very confusing, i think this is also one of the reasons why our Army Special Forces has a bad reputation in East Timor, if Aitarak militiamen or Fretilinterrorists commit human right abuse/warcrimes, the western press always pointing to Kopassus. In my opninion they are the only ones who have the right to wear a red baret.
Hahaha!He had private army. rofl
In Thailand have private security wore uniform look like military,police(Thailand and the other countrys but don't wear camouflage uniform rofl).


http://www.intentsecurity.com/images/stories/service/intentsecurity_service_picture_8.jpg http://www.intentsecurity.com/images/stories/service/intentsecurity_service_picture_6.jpg
Picture from INTET SECURITY GUARD(Thailand)Co.LTD


Also, what about the blue lights on top of cars? Radiostations, civillians, everybody can have a car disguised like a policecar, including the "pop pooop" horn.
http://www.accordclubthailand.com/webboard/index.php?PHPSESSID=10958ae02edceb802c6d62d74a762e27&action=dlattach;topic=42585.0;attach=61517;image
Oh Goddams!In thailand rescue car or civilian car have siren and light or modifly car see look like police.
It's illegally but police don't catch it. :| roflGoddams Thai legal.:bash:

[mr. kurien]

http://www.accordclubthailand.com/webboard/index.php?PHPSESSID=10958ae02edceb802c6d62d74a762e27&action=dlattach;topic=42585.0;attach=61517;image
It's legally but police don't catch it. :| roflGoddams Thai legal.:bash:

for what purpose they put that thing on top of the car?

[mr. kurien]

I've a question, Are there any rules/laws about military uniforms and barets.
Every second grade political party has an own 'army', even our national pedofil has his own 'Special Unit'.
http://www.kaltimpost.web.id/uploads/berita/dir07032009/img07032009169711.jpg
This can be very confusing, i think this is also one of the reasons why our Army Special Forces has a bad reputation in East Timor, if Aitarak militiamen or Fretilinterrorists commit human right abuse/warcrimes, the western press always pointing to Kopassus. In my opninion they are the only ones who have the right to wear a red baret.

Also, what about the blue lights on top of cars? Radiostations, civillians, everybody can have a car disguised like a policecar, including the "pop pooop" horn.

if not mistaken this man married that 12 years old kid right? is that his followers wearing that camou and red beret?

[Master Chief]

I've a question, Are there any rules/laws about military uniforms and barets.
Every second grade political party has an own 'army', even our national pedofil has his own 'Special Unit'.
http://www.kaltimpost.web.id/uploads/berita/dir07032009/img07032009169711.jpg


Who is this politician clown ? What political party ?

[JaNk0]

It's...Shaft!

[mr. kurien]

Who is this politician clown ? What political party ?

http://anakcucunabiadam.blogspot.com/2008/12/syeikh-puji-kahwin-budak-12-tahun.html

check this out...

[Jagi]

A pedo huh...well better send in a Reaper to blast the hell outta him,try to screw that you bald dimwit!!...hate those pedos...sorry if I was a bit outta place

But gotta luv those Reapers...Does Indonesia have any UCAV in development?

[Kopassus]

Yes, this dirty pedofil wants to marry with a 12 year old little girl.
The police has arrested him, but because he thinks he's rich and religious, he's untouchable.
He is not only rich and completely sickminded, but he also behave like a king/president/superstar.

Maybe he's now happy, has a lot of money, has a nice collection of cars, bodyguards dressed like commando's, get everything he wants including little girls, but he will pay for it after death.

[toukairin]

kopassus, he ain't even religious. He's just suddenly went goddamn rich after working in the capital, that he returns and BUILT a pesantren (religious study school), NOT TEACHING in pesantren... -_-

[TheBroncos]

To respond to the military BDU,

Same thing in US. Private Security Cos, contractors, militias, ex-militaries or just individuals usually have access to military stuffs. During my recent class, we have guys in Marine MARPAT. It is legal as long as you don't misrepresent yourself. Most gears can be bought in a surplus store, police store, or online obviously.

The airsoft guys especially know about these stuffs better than most in the civie world. :bash:

For hunting or rifle training, I love wearing the older army BDU pants. My bro was CO national guard, he can get as many as he needs. p-)

[Jagi]

Maybe those BDUs their wearing were bought or made in a costume tailor or somethin,just for show you know. I thought some political parties in Indonesia have their "guards" wearing similar uniforms,making them look more legit and tough

[Jagi]

Here are some diagrams of submarines from Deutschland and S.Korea
I don't know if it's weird or not but type 214 is really BIG! and fat
Type 214 (Deutschland),Type 209 (S.Korea),Sub Dev. Diagram
Oh yeah these subs were offered by those countries to Indonesia w/ option for ToT

[Jagi]

What will become of Kilo then lads? Time will tell..:|:|:|:|:|

[GreenTea]

I've a question, Are there any rules/laws about military uniforms and barets.
Every second grade political party has an own 'army', even our national pedofil has his own 'Special Unit'.

This can be very confusing, i think this is also one of the reasons why our Army Special Forces has a bad reputation in East Timor, if Aitarak militiamen or Fretilinterrorists commit human right abuse/warcrimes, the western press always pointing to Kopassus. In my opninion they are the only ones who have the right to wear a red baret.

Also, what about the blue lights on top of cars? Radiostations, civillians, everybody can have a car disguised like a policecar, including the "pop pooop" horn.

Money bro...

Money ruled and decided the countrymen...

"Uang mengatur negara" orang medan bilang... wkwkwkwkwk:):)

[TheBroncos]

Money bro...

Money ruled and decided the countrymen...

"Uang mengatur negara" orang medan bilang... wkwkwkwkwk:):)

who was it who said 'Uang termuka, jalan terbuka' to Conoco when it tried to launch Conoco Indonesia.. Adam Malik?

[mr. kurien]

is it legal for civillian to produce own camou and beret and then wear it at public?

[katon]

is it legal for civillian to produce own camou and beret and then wear it at public?

No,
In no law land
p-)
You can wear whatever you want

[mr. kurien]

thats what i thought...

[TheBroncos]

I just bought some surplus pindad .308 stamped 86.. They look clean and non corrosive. wootwoot They stop importing these in the late 90s i think. I ll give them 'a shot' this weekend - M14 and AR10 mostly. -- Pictures coming.

(I dont know why I am excited lol)

[Jagi]

Cool,be waiting for your post then...

[Johanus Bau]

Yes, this dirty pedofil wants to marry with a 12 year old little girl.
The police has arrested him, but because he thinks he's rich and religious, he's untouchable.
He is not only rich and completely sickminded, but he also behave like a king/president/superstar.

Maybe he's now happy, has a lot of money, has a nice collection of cars, bodyguards dressed like commando's, get everything he wants including little girls, but he will pay for it after death.


Not only does he want to marry a 12 yr old... he wanted to marry a 9 yr old and 7 yr old too but had to wait cos mereka belum dapat 'mens'.... sicko! I wish Pindad used him as a speed bump during their Anoa 6x6 testing period....

[Johanus Bau]

Sorry to have to go back to Karbol's pic and the one recently taken during Antara's coverage of HUT Pasmar-1, but has anyone identified this bike and sidecar?

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/TNI-AL/motormarinir.jpg



http://www.antarafoto.com/dom/prevw/grab.php?id=1237870159

[Dark Avenger]

Look like Uralmoto IMZ-8-107 to me.

[Jagi]

Is there any advantage of using a bike w/ an armed sidecar in a combat/warfare situation?

[Kopassus]

Sorry to have to go back to Karbol's pic and the one recently taken during Antara's coverage of HUT Pasmar-1, but has anyone identified this bike and sidecar?

http://www.antarafoto.com/dom/prevw/grab.php?id=1237870159
Looks great!! I also want something like this on my Megapro!woot

Oya, i've a question, according to Wickipedia, we have ordered 20 extra BTR-80A for our Unifil troops besides the 12 already in use by Kormar. Can someone confirm this, cause a lot of info on Wicky is completely BS.

[GreenTea]

http://www.antarafoto.com/dom/prevw/grab.php?id=1237870159

Look likes WWII motorist infantry...

It is effective in today warfare ???

[indogtr19]

Is there any advantage of using a bike w/ an armed sidecar in a combat/warfare situation?

Maybe for high speed chase rofl

[ggk]

recon

...............move in move out

[Aghost]

I remember Karbol said the Koppasus guy who create Pasopati bullpup has develop SMG but the design was so ugly. By the way I think I found the pictures...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/masbambang/PM1.jpg
The first SMG is not so ugly, Yeah I know they have lack budget for R & D but if they continue with further development I think the result wil be awesome.. Keep your creativity go on soldier.

Credit to Blacksky

[Johanus Bau]

Look likes WWII motorist infantry...

It is effective in today warfare ???

I think it is only good for convoy escort like what the Dispen Marinir photo shows (during HUT ke-8 Pasmar-1).... They are too vulnerable for recon...

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk262/masbaguss/13-1.jpg

[Jagi]

When I saw that bike I remembered seeing an early '30s black n white comedy flick where 2 robbers rode a similar bike w/ a sidecar being chased by police,got split up after accidentally hitting the connector to a road intersection sign,heading separate ways,met up and got reattached again

[GreenTea]

I think it is only good for convoy escort like what the Dispen Marinir photo shows (during HUT ke-8 Pasmar-1).... They are too vulnerable for recon...

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk262/masbaguss/13-1.jpg


In this pic, i see most of them are Marine, because i saw Marine colour (purple). Is it Paskhas soldiers behind motorist marine? I wondered because they wore Paskhas colour (the bright orange) :D

[karbol]

Oya, i've a question, according to Wickipedia, we have ordered 20 extra BTR-80A for our Unifil troops besides the 12 already in use by Kormar. Can someone confirm this, cause a lot of info on Wicky is completely BS.

dont know for sure about the number... but i guess it must be more then 12. coz, recently i saw in Military TV show (Militer in O'channel), that show the BTR-80A. AFAIK all the BTR-80A (12) are in Lebanon. so how come there are still more BTR-80A on TV?

[karbol]

Sorry to have to go back to Karbol's pic and the one recently taken during Antara's coverage of HUT Pasmar-1, but has anyone identified this bike and sidecar?


http://www.antarafoto.com/dom/prevw/grab.php?id=1237870159

Nata's Genk motor...roflrofl

[TheBroncos]

Cool,be waiting for your post then...

I heard pindad ammo is great in bold action.. semi auto might be 2" grouping.

Here is an image from gunbroker on one of auctions to keep this post in line.. (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/album.php?albumid=945&pictureid=11557)
http://www.frontierdynamics.com/SPO/indonesia/308pindad.jpg

[karbol]

I heard pindad ammo is great in bold action.. semi auto might be 2" grouping.

Here is an image from gunbroker on one of auctions to keep this post in line.. (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/album.php?albumid=945&pictureid=11557)


are those toys are yours? d**** you make me jealous..

from what i heard from TNI troopers, the Pindad ammo (MU-5TJ/5,56mm) only suite for SS-1/FNC. if you use it for M-16, it will cause damage on its barrel...

[TheBroncos]

are those toys are yours? d**** you make me jealous..

from what i heard from TNI troopers, the Pindad ammo (MU-5TJ/5,56mm) only suite for SS-1/FNC. if you use it for M-16, it will cause damage on its barrel...

Per http://www.pindad.com/prodgul800.php?varkdnews=MU556&bahasa=2, MU-5TJ shouldn't be harmful to any 5.56 barrel. Maybe it has one of those nasty lacquer coating that can ruin your barrel -- If you dont clean it properly after usage. Lacquer are commonly used on steel casing though, the picture on pindad site looks brass. Again, per Pindad, it uses steel core, which is banned in most public land here. It tends to sparks more and can cause fire. The site also states that accuracy is about 20cm at 100m.. that's about 6" at 100yard no? That's pretty bad.

As far as those stuffs in the gallery.. those are my babies! :grin::grin: Couple of AR 15s, AR 10, SIGs and couple of handguns. It tickels me that for some reason, we have few ex TNI AUs here in Colorado. They love going to the range w/ me since I have a makarov and cz which reminds them of the good ol days. One of the guys were even assigned to Aceh right after the Tsunami, he has some great stories. I wish he had taken some pictures along the way.

[ren0312]

Any pics of Indonesian troops in Aceh or East Timor?

[karbol]

Any pics of Indonesian troops in Aceh or East Timor?

please check page 158 for E.timor... and page 152 for Aceh......

but there are a lot of pics of TNI in Aceh and E.Timor... please use the search button...:)

[Jagi]

Guys I got a question,in 2007 TNI-AL made an agreement w/ North Sea Boats to procure X3K fast patrol craft,approximately when will the project be finished and how much did they ordered?

Taliho!wootwoot

[Advrider]

very nice photos of the TNI in action ~! all of your all are official photographers?

[nata4190]

Nata's Genk motor...roflrofl

Hahaha...I have never in my career seen that motorcycle untill that day :p

[karbol]

very nice photos of the TNI in action ~! all of your all are official photographers?

welcome aboard sir...

i'm not an official photographer from TNI...

[TheBroncos]

I went to http://www.rmfcsa.org/docs/FortMorgan09_flier.pdf today to try out these pindad .308 to find out vendors require their own ammo. Oh well, I ll try to go out again tomorrow w/ my own rifle. :|

BTW..found this earlier.. I dont know if it's posted yet..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLLbH9fLu3Y (Viewer discretion please)

[Kopassus]

dont know for sure about the number... but i guess it must be more then 12. coz, recently i saw in Military TV show (Militer in O'channel), that show the BTR-80A. AFAIK all the BTR-80A (12) are in Lebanon. so how come there are still more BTR-80A on TV?
O'Channel...oh, you have Indovision.... Maybe the shots are from before the Unifil operation? As far as i know, we have only ordered 32 second hand VABs for our Garudatroops.

[karbol]

O'Channel...oh, you have Indovision.... Maybe the shots are from before the Unifil operation? As far as i know, we have only ordered 32 second hand VABs for our Garudatroops.

i'm pretty sure that they take the shot's recenlty... after all, the BTR-80A was sent in 2006...

[karbol]

new pics of Giant Bow...

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/TNI-AD/DSC00619.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/TNI-AD/DSC00621.jpg

Giant bow BCCV...

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/TNI-AD/DSC00633.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/TNI-AD/DSC00634.jpg

view from inside the BCCV....

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/TNI-AD/DSC00641.jpg

[karbol]

Bofors L-70

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/TNI-AD/DSC00628.jpg

DsHK...

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/TNI-AD/DSC00605.jpg

[Kopassus]

DShK still in use....thanks for the pics Karbol, specially the ones from Giant Bow, lucky boy...!
What about the 17 BMP-3F on order, when do we get them?

[toukairin]

giant bow..oh no not that crap..i've talked to some officers that handles that gun... well, a crap from China is a crap from China... now it's not used anymore... shucks...

[TheBroncos]

giant bow..oh no not that crap..i've talked to some officers that handles that gun... well, a crap from China is a crap from China... now it's not used anymore... shucks...

Explain please? thanks

[Kopassus]

Toukairin, from which country are you? Yes, please tell us about the Giant Bow...

[Johanus Bau]

Bofors L-70

DsHK...


Wow! Great pics of the air defence guns and command vehicle! The Dashoka looks awesome! Where were the photos taken Karbol? Resimen I Kodam Jaya ya kan?

[bambu runcing]

the issue is the different twist ratio between MU-5 TJ and the old M-16A1 ammo (M-193 ball). Pindad ammo MU-5TJ is equivalent for NATO SS-109 (US M855) which has twist ratio 1:7 whilst M-193 only 1:12.
Using ss-109 on M-16A1 barrel is considered dangerous as the barrel might not stand the powerfull almost twice twist ratio bullet than it was prevoiusly designed.
But, SS-1 barrel can accept old M193 ball, with decreasing accuracy




Per http://www.pindad.com/prodgul800.php?varkdnews=MU556&bahasa=2, MU-5TJ shouldn't be harmful to any 5.56 barrel. Maybe it has one of those nasty lacquer coating that can ruin your barrel -- If you dont clean it properly after usage. Lacquer are commonly used on steel casing though, the picture on pindad site looks brass. Again, per Pindad, it uses steel core, which is banned in most public land here. It tends to sparks more and can cause fire. The site also states that accuracy is about 20cm at 100m.. that's about 6" at 100yard no? That's pretty bad.

As far as those stuffs in the gallery.. those are my babies! :grin::grin: Couple of AR 15s, AR 10, SIGs and couple of handguns. It tickels me that for some reason, we have few ex TNI AUs here in Colorado. They love going to the range w/ me since I have a makarov and cz which reminds them of the good ol days. One of the guys were even assigned to Aceh right after the Tsunami, he has some great stories. I wish he had taken some pictures along the way.

[TheBroncos]

the issue is the different twist ratio between MU-5 TJ and the old M-16A1 ammo (M-193 ball). Pindad ammo MU-5TJ is equivalent for NATO SS-109 (US M855) which has twist ratio 1:7 whilst M-193 only 1:12.
Using ss-109 on M-16A1 barrel is considered dangerous as the barrel might not stand the powerfull almost twice twist ratio bullet than it was prevoiusly designed.
But, SS-1 barrel can accept old M193 ball, with decreasing accuracy

You are talking about the gr weight on the ammo. The weight and the twist will affect the accuracy alot, but will not damage the barrel itself. I have both X193/M193 which is 55gr, and M855 which is 62gr. 45gr-62gr should be good enough for 1x9. On my 16" carbine, I have 1x9 heavy barrel, and X193 55gr is great upto 200yard. On my 6.5" short barrel, I have 1x7, which loves the Lake City M855, 62gr, its pretty accurate for a shorty. If its not for the skyroketting price on the 62gr, I would use it on my 1x9 too. The heavier/hotter the ammo, the more stable and accurate the trajectory is.

The original M16 has 1x12 twist in its 20" barrel, and mil ammo was 55gr back then. Now days I dont see much 1x12 other than bolt action barrels.

Again, it's more accuracy issue than any kind of damaging effects. There got to be other reasons why M16 don't like Pindad.. now I am getting nervous about shooting my pindad stash.

[karbol]

DShK still in use....thanks for the pics Karbol, specially the ones from Giant Bow, lucky boy...!
What about the 17 BMP-3F on order, when do we get them?

i have more pics.. i will upload it soon... have to work first..:)

also, i will upload the video of DsHK as soon as i finish edit it...

about the BMP's... they will arive in 2010...

[karbol]

Wow! Great pics of the air defence guns and command vehicle! The Dashoka looks awesome! Where were the photos taken Karbol? Resimen I Kodam Jaya ya kan?

Yon Arhanudri 1 Kostrad Serpong...

[karbol]

giant bow..oh no not that crap..i've talked to some officers that handles that gun... well, a crap from China is a crap from China... now it's not used anymore... shucks...

money never lies my friend...rofl

but i think it's not a really a crap... at least it more better then another old arsenal... and if you look inside the BCCV, well... i think it's more 'canggih' then you think...

the only problem was came from the truck. as you can see, the truck was made in china also... so there's hard to find the spare part for it...rofl

[karbol]

You are talking about the gr weight on the ammo. The weight and the twist will affect the accuracy alot, but will not damage the barrel itself. I have both X193/M193 which is 55gr, and M855 which is 62gr. 45gr-62gr should be good enough for 1x9. On my 16" carbine, I have 1x9 heavy barrel, and X193 55gr is great upto 200yard. On my 6.5" short barrel, I have 1x7, which loves the Lake City M855, 62gr, its pretty accurate for a shorty. If its not for the skyroketting price on the 62gr, I would use it on my 1x9 too. The heavier/hotter the ammo, the more stable and accurate the trajectory is.

The original M16 has 1x12 twist in its 20" barrel, and mil ammo was 55gr back then. Now days I dont see much 1x12 other than bolt action barrels.

Again, it's more accuracy issue than any kind of damaging effects. There got to be other reasons why M16 don't like Pindad.. now I am getting nervous about shooting my pindad stash.

please dont be nervous...rofl

i'm not expert in guns. so all i can say it's what i heard from another guy. can't wait to see your opinion after do the shooting...

[karbol]

Uji Coba Air Refueling Pesawat Tempur Sukhoi Berjalan Lancar
Pentak Lanud Hnd, 3/30/2009 http://www.tni-au.mil.id/images/content/2009-03-30-hnd.jpg
Dua Pesawat Tempur Sukhoi SU-30 yang berhome base di Skadron Udara 11 Wing 5 Lanud Sultan Hasanuddin, selama dua hari tanggal 23 s.d 24 Maret 2009 , melaksanakan uji coba Air Dinamis Air Refueling (pengisian bahan bakar diudara) dari pesawat tanker Hercules KC-130 dari Skadron Udara 32 Lanud Abdulrachman Saleh Malang dengan Pilot Komandan Skadron 32 Letkol Pnb Yani Ajat dan 15 Crew .

Sebelum melaksanakan uji coba Air Refueling, dihari pertama dilaksanakan uji kering Air Dinamis Air Refueling didarat di Base Ops Lanud Sultan Hasanuddin yang berlangsung selama kurang lebih tiga jam berjalan lancar, disaksikan langsung Komandan Lanud Sultan Hasanuddin Marsekal Pertama TNI IB.Putu Dunia, Komandan Wing 5 Kolonel Pnb Arif Mustofa, Tim dari Mabesau, Dsilitbangau dan dari Koharmatau , Tim teknisi pesawat Sukhoi dari Rusia, serta beberapa perjabat dari Koopsau II dan Lanud Sultan Hasanuddin lainnya.

Usai uji Air Dinamis Air Refueling didarat , dilanjutkan uji air refueling dengan menggunakan pesawat Hercules KC-130 yang dilengkapi dengan selang dan paradrogue assy serta satu buah tangki yang berkapasitas 15.000 liter bahan bakar tersebut tepat pukul 13.15 Wita take off dari landasan Sultan Hasanuddin terbang dengan ketinggian 10.000 feet di atas wilayah udara makassar, disusul dua pesawat Sukhoi take pukul 13.55 dan 13 .56 Wita yang langsung melaksanakan air dinamais air refueling yang berlangsung kurang lebih dua jam.

Dihari kedua uji coba air dinamis air refueling pesawat tempur Sukhoi dimulai pukul 10.20 sampai dengan pukul 12.24 Wita, dilaksanakan sebanyak empat sortie dengan menggunakan pesawat tempur Sukhoi TS-3005 dan TS-3003 yang diawaki oleh Komandan Skadron Udara 11 Letkol Pnb W . Iko Putra, Mayor Pnb Toni dan Mayor Pnb Yosta Riza serta dua Penerbang dari Rusia Sergey dan Roman.

http://www.tni-au.mil.id/content.asp?contentid=5625

***************

sorry... the article in Bahasa. but this is very interesting.

in english: first Indonesian Su-30Mk2 air to air refuelling .....

somebody please translate it....:)

[Johanus Bau]

Uji Coba Air Refueling Pesawat Tempur Sukhoi Berjalan Lancar
Pentak Lanud Hnd, 3/30/2009
Dua Pesawat Tempur Sukhoi SU-30 yang berhome base di Skadron Udara 11 Wing 5 Lanud Sultan Hasanuddin, selama dua hari tanggal 23 s.d 24 Maret 2009 , melaksanakan uji coba Air Dinamis Air Refueling (pengisian bahan bakar diudara) dari pesawat tanker Hercules KC-130 dari Skadron Udara 32 Lanud Abdulrachman Saleh Malang dengan Pilot Komandan Skadron 32 Letkol Pnb Yani Ajat dan 15 Crew .

Sebelum melaksanakan uji coba Air Refueling, dihari pertama dilaksanakan uji kering Air Dinamis Air Refueling didarat di Base Ops Lanud Sultan Hasanuddin yang berlangsung selama kurang lebih tiga jam berjalan lancar, disaksikan langsung Komandan Lanud Sultan Hasanuddin Marsekal Pertama TNI IB.Putu Dunia, Komandan Wing 5 Kolonel Pnb Arif Mustofa, Tim dari Mabesau, Dsilitbangau dan dari Koharmatau , Tim teknisi pesawat Sukhoi dari Rusia, serta beberapa perjabat dari Koopsau II dan Lanud Sultan Hasanuddin lainnya.

Usai uji Air Dinamis Air Refueling didarat , dilanjutkan uji air refueling dengan menggunakan pesawat Hercules KC-130 yang dilengkapi dengan selang dan paradrogue assy serta satu buah tangki yang berkapasitas 15.000 liter bahan bakar tersebut tepat pukul 13.15 Wita take off dari landasan Sultan Hasanuddin terbang dengan ketinggian 10.000 feet di atas wilayah udara makassar, disusul dua pesawat Sukhoi take pukul 13.55 dan 13 .56 Wita yang langsung melaksanakan air dinamais air refueling yang berlangsung kurang lebih dua jam.

Dihari kedua uji coba air dinamis air refueling pesawat tempur Sukhoi dimulai pukul 10.20 sampai dengan pukul 12.24 Wita, dilaksanakan sebanyak empat sortie dengan menggunakan pesawat tempur Sukhoi TS-3005 dan TS-3003 yang diawaki oleh Komandan Skadron Udara 11 Letkol Pnb W . Iko Putra, Mayor Pnb Toni dan Mayor Pnb Yosta Riza serta dua Penerbang dari Rusia Sergey dan Roman.

http://www.tni-au.mil.id/content.asp?contentid=5625

***************

sorry... the article in Bahasa. but this is very interesting.

in english: first Indonesian Su-30Mk2 air to air refuelling .....

somebody please translate it....:)

Ok, i will give it a go! Summary aja...

Two Indonesian Air Force (TNI AU) Sukhoi Su-30MK2 fighters from 11 Squadron, 5 Wing, based at Sultan Hasanuddin Air Base, conducted dynamic air to air refuelling tests from a KC-130 Hercules tanker (32 Squadron, Abdulrachman Saleh Air Base) on 23 and 24 March 2009. The KC-130 tanker was flown by the Commander of 32 Squadron Lieutenant Colonel Yani Ajat and supported by 15 crew members.

Before the actual air refuelling test took place, participants conducted a three hour 'dry-run' session on the ground at Sultan Hasanuddin Air Base's Operations Centre which was witnessed by Sultan Hasanuddin Air Base Commander Air Commodore IB. Putu Dunia, Commander of 5 Wing Colonel Arif Mustofa, teams from Air Force Headquarters, the Air Force Research and Development Service and the Air Force Material Maintenance Command, a team of Russian Sukhoi technicians along with several officers from II Air Force Operations Command and Sultan Hasanuddin Air Base.

The first actual air to air refuelling test was conducted at 10,000 feet in the skies above Makassar on 23 March and involved two Sukhois taking off at 1355 and 1356 hours local time to meet up with the 15,000 litre-capacity KC-130 tanker which took off from Sultan Hasanuddin Air Base at 1315 hours. The session lasted just under two hours.

The second day of air to air refuelling testing commenced at 1020 hours and concluded at 1224 hours. A total of four sorties were conducted again involving two Su-30s (tail numbers TS-3005 and TS-3003) piloted by 11 Squadron Commander Lieutenant Colonel W. Iko Putra, Major Toni and Major Yosta Riza along with two Russian pilots Sergey and Roman.

[Johanus Bau]

money never lies my friend...rofl

but i think it's not a really a crap... at least it more better then another old arsenal... and if you look inside the BCCV, well... i think it's more 'canggih' then you think...

the only problem was came from the truck. as you can see, the truck was made in china also... so there's hard to find the spare part for it...rofl

We can always get rid of the Chinese truck and place the BCCV on an Indo truck.... easy solution.

[toukairin]

@kopassus
i've talked with an officer from the arhanudri.. if i remember correctly, the Giant Bow is now only put to use in Pusdik (Pusat Pendidikan/Education Centre), because most of them aren't operable.

Some of them aren't operable electronically, so you have to aim and shoot it manually.. well it wouldn't be as reliable as shooting from inside the truck, right?

The components from each Giant Bow unit, in many cases, aren't interchangeable. The barrel diametre is known to be slightly different for each unit.

So the only thing i notice from the Giant Bow is that it's a crappy weapon system... who's to blame, the Chinese or the people who procured the weapon? i dunno..

[karbol]

@kopassus
i've talked with an officer from the arhanudri.. if i remember correctly, the Giant Bow is now only put to use in Pusdik (Pusat Pendidikan/Education Centre), because most of them aren't operable.

Some of them aren't operable electronically, so you have to aim and shoot it manually.. well it wouldn't be as reliable as shooting from inside the truck, right?

The components from each Giant Bow unit, in many cases, aren't interchangeable. The barrel diametre is known to be slightly different for each unit.

So the only thing i notice from the Giant Bow is that it's a crappy weapon system... who's to blame, the Chinese or the people who procured the weapon? i dunno..

hmmm.... i took this pic about 2 weeks ago in Yonarhanudri. the Giant Bow was operated just find. also the BCCV... even, i try out the electronic control from the truck... and it's work just fine....

pics inside the BCCV...

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/DSC00637copy.jpg

[karbol]

exclusive for you guys...p-)

the Video of Indonesia Airforce Su-30MK2 air to air refueling...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSXKvrpyAuo

enjoy.....:)

[TheBroncos]

Great job, Karbol! Thanks for the great pictures and footage! wootwoot

[TheBroncos]

@kopassus
i've talked with an officer from the arhanudri.. if i remember correctly, the Giant Bow is now only put to use in Pusdik (Pusat Pendidikan/Education Centre), because most of them aren't operable.

who's to blame, the Chinese or the people who procured the weapon? i dunno..

One officer's opinion can hardly be token as a fleet wide issue. However, it is good to know! p-)

An off topic question, are bumiputera have something against the chinese? I notice in Malaysian forum there is a hint of hostility. E.G. instead of saying "the manufacturer or the buyer" you said "the chinese." I notice few comments like that in Malaysian forums. Where as when one complain about Russian Mig 29, there is no 'connotation' or emphasis on the 'RUSSIAN.' just wondering..

[Jagi]

Nice footage karbol wootwoot

Hey how's it different between TNI's KC-130 and RSAF's KC-135?

Thanks

[mr. kurien]

the size of the tanker... KC130 is C130 Hercules... KC135 is like jumbo jet airplane... hehehe...

i'm waiting for the Hind pics... the one that karbol mentioned before : )

[Kopassus]

Yon Arhanudri 1 Kostrad Serpong...
Aah, yg di BSD?
Sy selalu lewat markas mereka kalau sy ke CGK. Nothing visible from the outside.

Thanks for all the pictures info and video's! Kalau kita perna bertemu, ill traktir you! ( Just something cheap ofcourse)

About the TNI AU Su 30MK2 air to air refuelling clip: Great job!! You was inside the chasing plane? What type of aircraft was it?
Nice to know we are still able to commit inflight-refueling. Are both KC-130B operationable?

[Kopassus]

the size of the tanker... KC130 is C130 Hercules... KC135 is like jumbo jet airplane... hehehe...

i'm waiting for the Hind pics... the one that karbol mentioned before : )
KC135 is an upgraded 707. I Never understand why such a small country needs a fleet of KC135...

[Kopassus]

One officer's opinion can hardly be token as a fleet wide issue. However, it is good to know! p-)

An off topic question, are bumiputera have something against the chinese? I notice in Malaysian forum there is a hint of hostility. E.G. instead of saying "the manufacturer or the buyer" you said "the chinese." I notice few comments like that in Malaysian forums. Where as when one complain about Russian Mig 29, there is no 'connotation' or emphasis on the 'RUSSIAN.' just wondering..
You mean pribumi's ? :) Chinese products our known here as cheap, unreliable and of bad quality. Some years ago they launched some motorcycle brands like Beijing ("Buatan China")....now you see them nowhere anymore.....milk from China contains melanine, they export fake eggs to us, forbiden and dangerous medicines..etc. My company has bought Chinese made tools, they not only looked cheap, but after two months they are broken....

A lot of Bangladeshi (or Sri Lanka's, i dont know anymore) J7s are grounded, because of cracks in the wings, after some years of operation...

[Kopassus]

@kopassus
i've talked with an officer from the arhanudri.. if i remember correctly, the Giant Bow is now only put to use in Pusdik (Pusat Pendidikan/Education Centre), because most of them aren't operable.

Some of them aren't operable electronically, so you have to aim and shoot it manually.. well it wouldn't be as reliable as shooting from inside the truck, right?

The components from each Giant Bow unit, in many cases, aren't interchangeable. The barrel diametre is known to be slightly different for each unit.

So the only thing i notice from the Giant Bow is that it's a crappy weapon system... who's to blame, the Chinese or the people who procured the weapon? i dunno..
The Chinese in the first place ofcourse, because they made and sold this crap, maybe even a bengkel knalpot can make it better...
I think our country has bougth it for political reasons, just 18 pieces...if the Chinese system was really good, we dont need to buy the Polish KOBRA system. Hopefully the QW-3's from the Airforce and the LD2000 system which are on order, are from better quality.

Maybe the unit which Karbol has saw, was never used before..

[karbol]

An off topic question, are bumiputera have something against the chinese? I notice in Malaysian forum there is a hint of hostility. E.G. instead of saying "the manufacturer or the buyer" you said "the chinese." I notice few comments like that in Malaysian forums. Where as when one complain about Russian Mig 29, there is no 'connotation' or emphasis on the 'RUSSIAN.' just wondering..

nope... there's nothing wrong between pribumi and chinese relation in Indonesia.

i have a lot a chinese friend in my community. they are patriotic and good shooter...p-)

and if you see Indonesia Forum, there are no flaming about chinese... we dont like to talk about SARA..

[karbol]

Aah, yg di BSD?
Sy selalu lewat markas mereka kalau sy ke CGK. Nothing visible from the outside.

Thanks for all the pictures info and video's! Kalau kita perna bertemu, ill traktir you! ( Just something cheap ofcourse)

About the TNI AU Su 30MK2 air to air refuelling clip: Great job!! You was inside the chasing plane? What type of aircraft was it?
Nice to know we are still able to commit inflight-refueling. Are both KC-130B operationable?

i'll keep you word... hahaha....

i'm not inside it. it was taken by my friend. he was aboard on B-737 surveiller...

dont know about the KC-130B... but i guess this is the first time Rusian Aircraft refuel from American aircraft...:)

[TheBroncos]

I am asking him about 'bumiputera' because he is malaysian. p-) I have a malaysian neighbor who is anti chinese malays but ok with other chinese... sort of threw me off. LOL.

Back to the topic...

[Jagi]

Regardless of the technical setbacks that Chinese products have,still,Indonesian gov't is pumping-up to buy more and more mass-produce-cheap-no-strings-attached-BS weapons and misc. equipments.

I guess it's two thumbs up for the gov't,huh?

[Kopassus]

@kopassus
i've talked with an officer from the arhanudri.. if i remember correctly, the Giant Bow is now only put to use in Pusdik (Pusat Pendidikan/Education Centre), because most of them aren't operable.

Some of them aren't operable electronically, so you have to aim and shoot it manually.. well it wouldn't be as reliable as shooting from inside the truck, right?

The components from each Giant Bow unit, in many cases, aren't interchangeable. The barrel diametre is known to be slightly different for each unit.

So the only thing i notice from the Giant Bow is that it's a crappy weapon system... who's to blame, the Chinese or the people who procured the weapon? i dunno..
Taken from another site:


The Type 85 twin-23mm towed anti-aircraft artillery (AAA) is a Chinese copy of the Russian ZU-23-2. The weapon was developed for the export market and did not enter the PLA service.

It looks like this weapon is even not good enough for use by their own troops. Specially made for poor third world countries....

[toukairin]

i've talked with an officer in the IAF... his opinion is that the Chinese (a.k.a PLA) can be good at manufacturing, for example they even launched satellites.. you can't have cheap crap to launch a rocket to space... moreover manned mission (like their Taikonaut).

BUT... it's a different story for the export... I think it's more of the Chinese way of business : how much money do you got? you got what you pay for...

(although the javanese has it's slogan also : Ada barang ada harga...)

Because we want cheap weapon system, there you go.. cheap weapon system... :D

[Jagi]

Makes sense toukairin...so can we blame anyone for the faulty merchandise we got from China?

[Kopassus]

i've talked with an officer in the IAF... his opinion is that the Chinese (a.k.a PLA) can be good at manufacturing, for example they even launched satellites.. you can't have cheap crap to launch a rocket to space... moreover manned mission (like their Taikonaut).

BUT... it's a different story for the export... I think it's more of the Chinese way of business : how much money do you got? you got what you pay for...

(although the javanese has it's slogan also : Ada barang ada harga...)

Because we want cheap weapon system, there you go.. cheap weapon system... :D
Even a cheap weaponsystem should be useable and reliable, like the AK47 and other Russian and Eastern Europe products...

The SS-1 is quite cheap, but its not get jammed after 20 shots...

[Dark Avenger]

Taken from another site:

It looks like this weapon is even not good enough for use by their own troops. Specially made for poor third world countries....

The Chinese adopted the weapon in 25mm caliber. They retained the original 23mm as an export item.

[toukairin]

meh. crap for export. good ones for us. yeah. similar to US policy... only exporting weapon system at least one generation behind what US have...

[TheBroncos]

Talking about Chinese imports, Chinese M4 copies and Norincos ammo are popular in Canada and US civilian market. They are cheap.. quality aint so bad. They wont be my first choice when the zombies are here. rofl

http://www.frontierdynamics.com/SPO/IMG_1214.JPG

[mr. kurien]

KC135 is an upgraded 707. I Never understand why such a small country needs a fleet of KC135...


to supply enough fuels to all the fighters in launching pre-emptive strike... i guess...

[Jagi]

@TheBroncos I don't know much about firearms but I heard that Remington produce R series that supposedly resembles ArmaLite's ARs and Colt's M4,is it any good?

[TheBroncos]

@TheBroncos I don't know much about firearms but I heard that Remington produce R series that supposedly resembles ArmaLite's ARs and Colt's M4,is it any good?

It's pretty much another AR clone family specilized for hunting (no carbine version I believe). It's a tad on the high price side. For that kind of price range, I'd go w/ an original Colt or REM 700.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/Model_R-15_VTR.asp

[Johanus Bau]

Photo by Antara's Eric Ireng

http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu40/razabanjar/NaikPangkat010409.jpg (http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu40/razabanjar/NaikPangkat010409.jpg)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1XZMX_E0z5c/SdRc51Aeq_I/AAAAAAAABJg/t-EJPy0Hf3g/s200/Casa+Aviocar+NC212M-200+01.JPG (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1XZMX_E0z5c/SdRc51Aeq_I/AAAAAAAABJg/t-EJPy0Hf3g/s1600-h/Casa+Aviocar+NC212M-200+01.JPG)MASALEMBO - Co Pilot NC-212 Skuadron Udara 600 Wing Udara-1 Puspenerbal, Lettu Laut (P) Pambudi (kanan) menyematkan pangkat baru kepada Pilot, Mayor Laut (P) Andri Wahyudi, saat terbang di atas Laut Jawa Masalembo tak jauh dari Banjarmasin, Kalsel, Rabu (1/4). Mayor Laut (P) Andri Wahyudi terpaksa melakukan prosesi kenaikan pangkat di udara karena menunaikan tugas ke perairan Blok Ambalat.

[karbol]

as i promise before, here you go, the vid of DsHK shooting...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD41oAxMtns

[Jagi]

I just want to post three .50BMG Snipers that TNI use currently in Kostrad and Marines which is the Truvelo .50, the DENEL NTW-20, and the notorious Barrett M107. One thing peculiar about DENEL's besides the bullpup configuration is the magazine itself which is fed from the side,I don't know why the engineers at DENEL did that.I don't have images of the soldiers actually using or holding the guns,sorry:roll::roll:

[Kopassus]

I just want to post three .50BMG Snipers that TNI use currently in Kostrad and Marines which is the Truvelo .50, the DENEL NTW-20, and the notorious Barrett M107. One thing peculiar about DENEL's besides the bullpup configuration is the magazine itself which is fed from the side,I don't know why the engineers at DENEL did that.I don't have images of the soldiers actually using or holding the guns,sorry:roll::roll:
Afaik the NTW-20 isn't a .50/12,7mm gun but it is available in two versions, 20mm and 14.5mm, and could be easily converted from one variant to another by simple replacement of the barrel, bolt, magazine and scope, which will take about 1 minute in the field conditions. But thanks for posting...

[samourai]

since some month the NTW 20 is available in :
- 20 x 82 mm
- 20 x 110 mm
- 14,5 x 114 mm

[TheBroncos]

Photo by Antara's Eric Ireng
Mayor Laut (P) Andri Wahyudi

Congratz to Mr Wahyudi :) At first glance...I saw a co pilot choking the pilot in flight !!!

[Jagi]

Guys,do civillians have permission to enter Pindad,PAL,IAe and their facilities?

[karbol]

Guys,do civillians have permission to enter Pindad,PAL,IAe and their facilities?

yes... but you must contact them first. in this near future Forum Militer Kaskus going to visit Pindad and PT.DI... you can joint them...

[TheBroncos]

Where in Kaskus?

Edit.. n/m found it.. some of the comments there are way funny :)

[Jagi]

That's kaskus for ya,home of the lifely bunch

Anyways,anyone got any updates on PTDI's LAH (Light Attack Helo) dev.?
What I heard from some is that it's based on MBB's BO-105 platform and that it's smaller than AH-64 with light armaments,so any infos or pics maybe?

[henzai]

some news.......



BANDUNG, itb.ac.id - Ganesha ANT Team successfully achieved the highest award from the Japan Society of Information and Communication, IEICE, at the chip design competition : LSI-Design Contest 2009. Ganesha ANT, which members are students of STEI ITB: Tyson, Aisar L. Romas, and R. Siti Intan, successfully set aside a finalist from the famous University in Japan and Korea. At the same competition, the other team, the Zoiros Team, received an award from the Multinational Company, Xilinx ® Award.
Ganesha ANT Team propose a new processor design that can execute processes in parallel

http://www.itb.ac.id/en/news/2396.xhtml

this microprocessors have better performance than "dual-core" architecture....

[Jagi]

The LSI design competition is aimed at creating new advances in micro-processing technology.The Japanese,for instance,developed a highly advanced micro-processor with sixteen cores if I'm not mistaken,but they only have an increase of performance by 7%,while the chaps from ITB created a "mere" dual-core micro-processor w/ parallel technology that led them to a significant increase in the performance by 30%,and that,ladies and gents,is totally wicked! Congrats to ITB!

[henzai]

The LSI design competition is aimed at creating new advances in micro-processing technology.The Japanese,for instance,developed a highly advanced micro-processor with sixteen cores if I'm not mistaken,but they only have an increase of performance by 7%,while the chaps from ITB created a "mere" dual-core micro-processor w/ parallel technology that led them to a significant increase in the performance by 30%,and that,ladies and gents,is totally wicked! Congrats to ITB!

nice...
16 cores vs dual core banci........woot

[Kopassus]

Innalillahi wa inna ilaihi rojiun.....
http://www.pikiran-rakyat.com/index.php?mib=news.detail&id=68292
(In Bahasa Indonesia)

[Kopassus]

The LSI design competition is aimed at creating new advances in micro-processing technology.The Japanese,for instance,developed a highly advanced micro-processor with sixteen cores if I'm not mistaken,but they only have an increase of performance by 7%,while the chaps from ITB created a "mere" dual-core micro-processor w/ parallel technology that led them to a significant increase in the performance by 30%,and that,ladies and gents,is totally wicked! Congrats to ITB!
Let be gues...the students dont have a copyright/patent on their own design. The LSI design competition panitia sell the design to Intel, who get all the honour and money from the Indonesian design....

[karbol]

Innalillahi wa inna ilaihi rojiun.....
http://www.pikiran-rakyat.com/index.php?mib=news.detail&id=68292
(In Bahasa Indonesia)

Military plane crashes with 24 onboard

The Associated Press , Bandung | Mon, 04/06/2009 3:50 PM | National
An air force spokesman says 24 people are feared dead after a military aircraft crashed into an airport hangar.

Six crew, an instructor and 17 special forces trainees were on board the Fokker 27, which went down Monday in the city of Bandung during stormy weather.

Air Force spokesman Bambang Sulistyo said the cause of the crash is unknown.

Ambulances are on the scene.

A witness identified only as Mujiono told state news agency Antara that a giant fireball engulfed the aircraft upon impact.

link: http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/04/06/military-plane-crashes-with-24-onboard.html

:-(:-(

RIP to the fallen....

[Kopassus]

Katanya the aircraft has crashed into the hanggar of Aircraft Services (ACS) from IPTN.....
Its crashed into the characteristic blue hangar with the red/white blocks....
:-(
Our country is always hit by badluck, especially our Aircraft Industry...

Its still rainy here in Bandung...

[ggk]

rest in peace. semoga Tuhan mencucuri rahmat ke atas mereka yang terkorban.

[adriantara18]

Innalillahi wa inna ilaihi rojiun
RIP to all victims

[Jagi]

Well,these micro-processors they developed is different than those that are produced by big corporations such as Intel and AMD. Nevertheless it is a starting towards further technological advancements in today's computer age.

Deepest condolences to the braves of TNI AU in the Fokker 27 tragedy,may their soul rest in peace and their loved ones have the strength to endure this tragedy. Amin

[mr. kurien]

rest in peace to all the fallen heroes... condolences to all their families... everything that happen is godwill. let us pray for them...

[Wally1967]

RIP to all victims and condolences to families and friends.

[Johanus Bau]

rest in peace to all the fallen heroes... condolences to all their families... everything that happen is godwill. let us pray for them...

Terrible tragedy....

Detik photo of damage to the hangar. :-(

http://foto.detik.com/images/content/2009/04/06/501/hangar2.jpg

[karbol]

6 of them are member of DenBravo... so it is a great lost to our country...:-(

[ZAYYANA]

The Co Pilot (RIP 1st Lt. Yudo Pramono) is the first son of Pangdam Iskandar Muda; Major General Soenarko (Former Commander of KOPASUS).

[Zackeast]

Feeling sad about that. AL-Fatihah.....

[Johanus Bau]

6 of them are member of DenBravo... so it is a great lost to our country...:-(

Really??? I thought they were only Paskhas trainees....? which source confirmed they were Den Bravo? If that is the case, that is certainly a great loss...

[TheBroncos]

Really??? I thought they were only Paskhas trainees....? which source confirmed they were Den Bravo? If that is the case, that is certainly a great loss...

Either way, a lost of life is a great loss. RIP :-(

[karbol]

Really??? I thought they were only Paskhas trainees....? which source confirmed they were Den Bravo? If that is the case, that is certainly a great loss...

my source....

from todays pics.. thx to Vaman...




http://i44.tinypic.com/2j10wzm.jpg

thx to supplanter...



http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4552/610xjuw.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=610xjuw.jpg)


http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/8541/610xqfo.jpg (http://img410.imageshack.us/my.php?image=610xqfo.jpg)

[nomind]

RIP to the fallen..

Al-Fatihah

[TheBroncos]

As long as the nice weather holds, we are going to the range this weekend...
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=1007&pictureid=12093

Will post result and pictures..

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/album.php?albumid=1007

[karbol]

As long as the nice weather holds, we are going to the range this weekend...


Will post result and pictures..

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/album.php?albumid=1007


i wish i can join you..... dont forget to nyontreng after you do the shooting..rofl

[888th]

i wish i can join you..... dont forget to nyontreng after you do the shooting..rofl

What is nyontreng??? :oops:

[karbol]

What is nyontreng??? :oops:

hehehe... sory... that is indonesia terms. meaning is, to choose on election. today, Indonesia is having an parliamentery election...

[indogtr19]

hehehe... sory... that is indonesia terms. meaning is, to choose on election. today, Indonesia is having an parliamentery election...

Who did you vote for karbol?

[Kopassus]

oooo bukan nyoblos ka
hehe...not anymore...
Most people has to contreng 4 big forms, 1 for national parlemen,2 for regional parlemen and one for DPD. But until now i dont understand the DPD form, i only saw pictures of persons i dont know, without the name of the partai politik.

[karbol]

i was sooooo busy... so i dont do nyontreng....

here some pics from *****images

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/85890128.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/85890130.jpg

Papuans Protest As Indonesia Goes To The Polls
YOGYAKARTA, INDONESIA - APRIL 10: Police prepare to guard the General Election Commission Office as Papua students protest prior to Indonesia's Legislative Elections on April 10, 2009 in Yogyakarta, Indonesia. The elections lay the foundations for the main Presiential Elections which will be held on July 8, 2009 to elect the President and Vice President for the 2009-2014 period. Papuan's have called for independence ahead of the elections and recent clashes with police have been criticised by police chief Bagus Eko Danto who said the incidents were an attempt to sabotage the elections. (Photo by Ulet Ifansasti/***** Images)

the very big election form...
http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/85871981.jpg

[Java Jongen]

he...he...he...the most expensive ellection in the world ,I think...by the way Demokrat is the winner in my district

[TheBroncos]

Do the police or army get to vote?

[TheBroncos]

deleted and moved it to the 4th post below

[ZAYYANA]

Do the police or army get to vote?

Police n Armed Forces can't vote coz the are the country "tools", they must be neutral.

[Aghost]

Police n Armed Forces can't vote coz the are the country "tools", they must be neutral.

They will vote, but not now coz the regulation still drafted by the government. It's all democratic process in Indonesia because when Suharto rule the country he involved the Army in politic for over than 30 year caused missorientation especially the Military officer, some of them pursue the position of government official or state own company director rather than military career.

Formerly even they didn't vote but they had quota in parliament, But now the government had delete the quota but they still not vote.

I think the Indonesia government succeed to re-arrange the TNI become more professional and stay away from politic. And hope they will succeed too in re-arrange the Army from their business.....

[ZAYYANA]

They will vote, but not now coz the regulation still drafted by the government. It's all democratic process in Indonesia because when Suharto rule the country he involved the Army in politic for over than 30 year caused missorientation especially the Military officer, some of them pursue the position of government official or state own company director rather than military career.

Formerly even they didn't vote but they had quota in parliament, But now the government had delete the quota but they still not vote.

I think the Indonesia government succeed to re-arrange the TNI become more professional and stay away from politic. And hope they will succeed too in re-arrange the Army from their business.....

Meaning that what I said earlier true, right.....?

[karbol]

Finally, got to go the range to test out those ammo...


I am going to take a close up pictures of the target of each grouping along w/ some measurement. But first... lunch..hmm rendang!

Above picture is a friend of mine trying out the AR.

awesome... post more pics please...

but, are you get banned?:roll:

[McAssoy]

hi all....

ignore me.. just testing...

thanx for the all who contributed in this thread...

go.. go.. TNI..!!

[TheBroncos]

Ignored!

lol.. welcome!

[TheBroncos]

As said, I finally got to go to the range. By no mean, I am an avid shooter. I do have some experience and have been hunting or going to the range since 01. Here they are...

The contestants..
http://www.frontierdynamics.com/SPO/ammo1.jpg

The range (a friend of mine who shot for the first time :))
http://www.frontierdynamics.com/SPO/ammo3.jpg

The target (100 yard away)
http://www.frontierdynamics.com/SPO/ammo4.jpg

The target (50 yard away)
http://www.frontierdynamics.com/SPO/ammo5.jpg

The black evil gun (iron sight w/ red dot scope.. no magnifications, 16" heavy carbine barrel - sabre defense)
http://www.frontierdynamics.com/SPO/ammo6.jpg

And the result... 3 shots to foul the barrel..then 3 shot groups at 50 yard
http://www.frontierdynamics.com/SPO/ammo8.jpg

Lake City m855 .90 inch group
PMC .223 55gr .80 inch group
Winchester 5.56 .75 inch group
Pindad 1.5 inch group
S&B 1.5 inch group

I was surprised that PMC and Winchester were better this time around. They were around 2.5"-3" grouping last time I ranged them at 100yard. Lake City was within its norm. Pindad and S&B were just about 1.5" which were better than expected.

Now here is the stupid part.. I couldn't find the 100 yard target. I must have left it at my friend's truck. But the result was similar.. with Lake City came up the most accurate and consistent followed by winchester then PMC, Pindad, and trailed by S&B.

All in all for range plinking purpose, Pindad isn't so bad -- especially for .38/bullet. M855 is going for .80/bullet or more.

I promise i ll post an update when I find the 100 yard target. All shots were fired in ****e position w/ the front grip bi pod. And finally bottom is from mag full of pindad stuffs at 125 yard. By the time we shot these, it was starting to rain.

http://www.frontierdynamics.com/SPO/ammo7.jpg

[karbol]

^^buset dah... thats a very good shooting bro...with that result, you can join Kopassus...:)

[karbol]

just want to share..

this is a scan pics from edisi koleksi Angkasa (angkasa magazine collection edition), about our 3rd and 4th LPD. as you can see, the new LPD are diferent from previos LPD (KRI MAKASSAR, KRI SURABAYA, and KRI dr. Suharso). the new LPD has a larger heli deck, which can provide 3 helos...

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/lpd3.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/lpd4.jpg


http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/lpd1.jpg

to compare it, this is a pic of heli deck from KRI dr.Suharso... it only provide 2 helo's...

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/TNI-AL/suharso.jpg

[karbol]

something to read...

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/lpd5.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/lpd2.jpg

[indogtr19]

^^ Wow that's a nice LPD! Saya suka :D

[ZAYYANA]

Can't wait to see it, hope it can be our first step to make Aircraft carrier.

[Aghost]

Karbol that's Angkasa magazine collection edition of "alutsista dalam negeri" you've got scanned (niat banget sih) he..he..

Anyway PT PAL have ability to build large ship, and when the goverment decide to order four LPD from Korea with the option two of them will be build in PT PAL so then they modified it become half LHD fitted with additional 100 mm / 40 mm gun.

Another good news is the government had approved the budget to build the Guided Missile escort 105 M starting this year, and the Italian Shipyard agreed to do the assistance.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1XZMX_E0z5c/SYeiEIvcPsI/AAAAAAAABBM/_be4_hRvOVs/s1600/PKRSpecs.jpg

[karbol]

Karbol that's Angkasa magazine collection edition of "alutsista dalam negeri" you've got scanned (niat banget sih) he..he..

Anyway PT PAL have ability to build large ship, and when the goverment decide to order four LPD from Korea with the option two of them will be build in PT PAL so then they modified it become half LHD fitted with additional 100 mm / 40 mm gun.

Another good news is the government had approved the budget to build the Guided Missile escort 105 M starting this year, and the Italian Shipyard agreed to do the assistance.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1XZMX_E0z5c/SYeiEIvcPsI/AAAAAAAABBM/_be4_hRvOVs/s1600/PKRSpecs.jpg

:).... just want to share with member here. specially for member who lived overseas....

now thats a good news about Kornas... but do you have the link?

[garandman]

I heard pindad ammo is great in bold action.. semi auto might be 2" grouping.

Here is an image from gunbroker on one of auctions to keep this post in line.. (http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/album.php?albumid=945&pictureid=11557)
http://www.frontierdynamics.com/SPO/indonesia/308pindad.jpg

That is the same head-stamp on the Pindad ammo I got from 1995-96.
I used to shoot them through a Savage 110 FP (308) but the results are not that good .... 4" group at 100' was the norm. The ammo was more dirty than other 308 surplus I have played with since then (British Radway Green, South African, Portugese FNM, Spanish Santa Barbara, and Austrian Hirtenberger) and the Pindad was also the least accurate (with Hirtenberger as the best).

Where did you get this Pindad ammo?

[karbol]

That is the same head-stamp on the Pindad ammo I got from 1995-96.
I used to shoot them through a Savage 110 FP (308) but the results are not that good .... 4" group at 100' was the norm. The ammo was more dirty than other 308 surplus I have played with since then (British Radway Green, South African, Portugese FNM, Spanish Santa Barbara, and Austrian Hirtenberger) and the Pindad was also the least accurate (with Hirtenberger as the best).

Where did you get this Pindad ammo?

welcome aboard sir...

nice to have you here...:)

[garandman]

Per http://www.pindad.com/prodgul800.php?varkdnews=MU556&bahasa=2, MU-5TJ shouldn't be harmful to any 5.56 barrel. Maybe it has one of those nasty lacquer coating that can ruin your barrel -- If you dont clean it properly after usage. Lacquer are commonly used on steel casing though, the picture on pindad site looks brass. Again, per Pindad, it uses steel core, which is banned in most public land here. It tends to sparks more and can cause fire. The site also states that accuracy is about 20cm at 100m.. that's about 6" at 100yard no? That's pretty bad.

I don't think Pindad ever used lacquer coated casing. All their casings are brass. I heard the same thing about Pindad's version of SS109. Instead of using tungsten, they used steel as the penetrator core. We don't have any restriction on ammo ball in our public shooting range. But they do not want us to shoot tracer rounds due to fire hazard. You must have a lot of brush fire in your AO for them to ban the use of steel core bullets. What about bi-metal coated bullets? Some of those Russian bullets (such as Wolf) use mild steel jacket.

That's their claim? 6" at 100m?? OMG ... that is pretty bad.



As far as those stuffs in the gallery.. those are my babies! :grin::grin: Couple of AR 15s, AR 10, SIGs and couple of handguns. It tickels me that for some reason, we have few ex TNI AUs here in Colorado. They love going to the range w/ me since I have a makarov and cz which reminds them of the good ol days. One of the guys were even assigned to Aceh right after the Tsunami, he has some great stories. I wish he had taken some pictures along the way.

Good looking collection you got there. I saw a CZ52 in your pile. Love that gun too. A hand cannon with blazing muzzle velocity (1500 FPS) and a nice loud report to boot. Those former TNI AU guys must be older for them to remember the Makarov and CZ52 in their service. Did they say that TNI AU used to have CZ52? That's new info to me.

On the CZ, have you tried the CZ82? Think of it as a Makarov with a new lease on life .... double stack 12-rd mag, ambi safety, side mounted mag release button (also ambidextrous), and a better overall ergonomic compared to the Makarov. Man, I love this gun ... you should get one before they are sold out. This is ex Czech police and military.

[garandman]

Per http://www.pindad.com/prodgul800.php?varkdnews=MU556&bahasa=2, MU-5TJ shouldn't be harmful to any 5.56 barrel. Maybe it has one of those nasty lacquer coating that can ruin your barrel -- If you dont clean it properly after usage. Lacquer are commonly used on steel casing though, the picture on pindad site looks brass. Again, per Pindad, it uses steel core, which is banned in most public land here. It tends to sparks more and can cause fire. The site also states that accuracy is about 20cm at 100m.. that's about 6" at 100yard no? That's pretty bad.

As far as those stuffs in the gallery.. those are my babies! :grin::grin: Couple of AR 15s, AR 10, SIGs and couple of handguns. It tickels me that for some reason, we have few ex TNI AUs here in Colorado. They love going to the range w/ me since I have a makarov and cz which reminds them of the good ol days. One of the guys were even assigned to Aceh right after the Tsunami, he has some great stories. I wish he had taken some pictures along the way.


You are talking about the gr weight on the ammo. The weight and the twist will affect the accuracy alot, but will not damage the barrel itself. I have both X193/M193 which is 55gr, and M855 which is 62gr. 45gr-62gr should be good enough for 1x9. On my 16" carbine, I have 1x9 heavy barrel, and X193 55gr is great upto 200yard. On my 6.5" short barrel, I have 1x7, which loves the Lake City M855, 62gr, its pretty accurate for a shorty. If its not for the skyroketting price on the 62gr, I would use it on my 1x9 too. The heavier/hotter the ammo, the more stable and accurate the trajectory is.

The original M16 has 1x12 twist in its 20" barrel, and mil ammo was 55gr back then. Now days I dont see much 1x12 other than bolt action barrels.

Again, it's more accuracy issue than any kind of damaging effects. There got to be other reasons why M16 don't like Pindad.. now I am getting nervous about shooting my pindad stash.


You have Pindad M93?? Where did you get yours? I need to get me some of this for testing.

I concur, M193 and M855 are both usable out of 1x7 barrel. The M855 will be more accurate since the tighter twist rifling stabilize the heavier and longer bullet better. The M193 is not only lighter in weight but also shorter .... spinning the bullet at the speed of 1x7 rifling tends to 'overstabilize' it and reduces its accuracy potential. But it is still accurate enough for combat at distances under 200m. I heard from an NCO serving in Iraq during the early years of OIF. He claimed that when they go clearing door-to-door, his team likes to load their mags with M193 out of the 1x7 M4. Why? Because the 1x7 barrel will overstabilize the M193 and make it more ****e to fragmentation when hitting soft tissues. Makes sense to me. The army guys were getting their M193 by bartering their M855 with the Air Force SP in the nearby airbase. Apparently the AF still have old stock of M193.

Now, out of 1x12 barrel .... M855 is just too heavy and too long to be stable. So the accuracy of the M855 out of 1x12 barrel is far worse than the accuracy of the M193 out of 1x7 barrel. If you have the older 1x12 barrel, stick with the 55 grain M193.

[garandman]

Talking about Chinese imports, Chinese M4 copies and Norincos ammo are popular in Canada and US civilian market. They are cheap.. quality aint so bad. They wont be my first choice when the zombies are here. rofl

http://www.frontierdynamics.com/SPO/IMG_1214.JPG

I have heard our Canadian neighbors have been enjoying the cheap Chinese copy all these times. But where do you find Chinese made AR15 in the US market? IIRC, Bill Clinton signed an executive order in 1994-95 to ban importation of weapons and ammo from China and several other nations (including South Korea). This is the reason why you don't see newly imported guns and ammo from China since mid-90s. Also the reason for the cessation of import for Korea's Daewoo series rifle. I had a DR200 a few years back, but I traded it for a FAL since the spare parts for DR200 was practically non existent thanks to Clinton's EO. Seriously, where do you find Chinese made M4 and AR here in the US??

[garandman]

As said, I finally got to go to the range. By no mean, I am an avid shooter. I do have some experience and have been hunting or going to the range since 01. Here they are...

The contestants..
http://www.frontierdynamics.com/SPO/ammo1.jpg

The range (a friend of mine who shot for the first time :))
http://www.frontierdynamics.com/SPO/ammo3.jpg

The target (100 yard away)
http://www.frontierdynamics.com/SPO/ammo4.jpg

The target (50 yard away)
http://www.frontierdynamics.com/SPO/ammo5.jpg

The black evil gun (iron sight w/ red dot scope.. no magnifications, 16" heavy carbine barrel - sabre defense)
http://www.frontierdynamics.com/SPO/ammo6.jpg

And the result... 3 shots to foul the barrel..then 3 shot groups at 50 yard
http://www.frontierdynamics.com/SPO/ammo8.jpg

Lake City m855 .90 inch group
PMC .223 55gr .80 inch group
Winchester 5.56 .75 inch group
Pindad 1.5 inch group
S&B 1.5 inch group

I was surprised that PMC and Winchester were better this time around. They were around 2.5"-3" grouping last time I ranged them at 100yard. Lake City was within its norm. Pindad and S&B were just about 1.5" which were better than expected.

Now here is the stupid part.. I couldn't find the 100 yard target. I must have left it at my friend's truck. But the result was similar.. with Lake City came up the most accurate and consistent followed by winchester then PMC, Pindad, and trailed by S&B.

All in all for range plinking purpose, Pindad isn't so bad -- especially for .38/bullet. M855 is going for .80/bullet or more.

I promise i ll post an update when I find the 100 yard target. All shots were fired in ****e position w/ the front grip bi pod. And finally bottom is from mag full of pindad stuffs at 125 yard. By the time we shot these, it was starting to rain.

http://www.frontierdynamics.com/SPO/ammo7.jpg

Thanks for the range report.

The Pindad performed much better than I had expected. PM/email me for the source of this ammo. I would like to do an accuracy and muzzle velocity test using chronograph.

I would expect military rounds to perform at 2 MOA group. The LC M855 seems to deliver slightly better than that.

[garandman]

welcome aboard sir...

nice to have you here...:)

Thank you for the welcome. I registered several weeks ago, but the Mods just approved me for posting/replying last week.

Toukairin vectored me to this thread when the subject of infantry rifles and ammo popped up.

[TheBroncos]

That is the same head-stamp on the Pindad ammo I got from 1995-96.
I used to shoot them through a Savage 110 FP (308) but the results are not that good .... 4" group at 100' was the norm. The ammo was more dirty than other 308 surplus I have played with since then (British Radway Green, South African, Portugese FNM, Spanish Santa Barbara, and Austrian Hirtenberger) and the Pindad was also the least accurate (with Hirtenberger as the best).

Where did you get this Pindad ammo?

Portugese seems to be dirtier... What you dont' see on my post after 2 mags or so, the fouling from pindad starting to effect the accuracy.. I have two more target that shows 6" MOA after 60-70 rounds down the tube.

[TheBroncos]

I have heard our Canadian neighbors have been enjoying the cheap Chinese copy all these times. But where do you find Chinese made AR15 in the US market? IIRC, Bill Clinton signed an executive order in 1994-95 to ban importation of weapons and ammo from China and several other nations (including South Korea). This is the reason why you don't see newly imported guns and ammo from China since mid-90s. Also the reason for the cessation of import for Korea's Daewoo series rifle. I had a DR200 a few years back, but I traded it for a FAL since the spare parts for DR200 was practically non existent thanks to Clinton's EO. Seriously, where do you find Chinese made M4 and AR here in the US??

Chinese ARs are illegal to be sold. But they were buzzing about non-stamped LPK and accessories that are actually chinese due to the shortage. Join Oregon AR club if you want to expose yourself to these 'rumors.' :)

[TheBroncos]

Thanks for the range report.

The Pindad performed much better than I had expected. PM/email me for the source of this ammo. I would like to do an accuracy and muzzle velocity test using chronograph.

I would expect military rounds to perform at 2 MOA group. The LC M855 seems to deliver slightly better than that.

If you have chronograph.. I can send you some malaysian surplus and extra pindads both in 5.56 and .308. I hope you didn't misread my post... the posted target is not the 100 yard.. I ll post the 100 yard which is worse but better than I expected still.

BTW..i ll trade you these w/ some M855 p-)

[garandman]

Chinese ARs are illegal to be sold. But they were buzzing about non-stamped LPK and accessories that are actually chinese due to the shortage. Join Oregon AR club if you want to expose yourself to these 'rumors.' :)

Chinese made AR accessories have been around for quite a while. The UTG brand and Leapers are prime examples. But I have not seen or heard Chinese made LPK till now. Who sells them? I hope people don't try to pass them as US made parts. I'll go check the armory section at AR15.com.

Yeah, the shortage sucks balls. I still have quite a few unfinished projects that I cannot get parts for (at reasonable cost). But I have enough AR to keep me happy and busy for a while.

[garandman]

Portugese seems to be dirtier... What you dont' see on my post after 2 mags or so, the fouling from pindad starting to effect the accuracy.. I have two more target that shows 6" MOA after 60-70 rounds down the tube.

The Port I have used is cleaner than the Pindad, IMHO. Although, compared to other NATO surplus, the Port is dirtier.

I never fired that many rounds in a stretch from my 110FP. Usually I ran a patch through the bore after 10 rounds or so. This is probably the reason why I did not notice a great deal of accuracy decrease in Pindad ammo due to fouling.

[TheBroncos]

Chinese made AR accessories have been around for quite a while. The UTG brand and Leapers are prime examples. But I have not seen or heard Chinese made LPK till now. Who sells them? I hope people don't try to pass them as US made parts. I'll go check the armory section at AR15.com.

Yeah, the shortage sucks balls. I still have quite a few unfinished projects that I cannot get parts for (at reasonable cost). But I have enough AR to keep me happy and busy for a while.

They are non stamped... sellers at gunshow typically says it's either used in new condition or simply say doesn't know who made them. This is completely legal. Most won't touch it if they know its chinese made obviously...

Here is the last target we shot... you can see how the fouling is so obvious. 125yard.. ****e and sitting down position..

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=1007&pictureid=12173


Note how I tend to shot high to the right? Cannot seem to fix that!:bash:

[garandman]

If you have chronograph.. I can send you some malaysian surplus and extra pindads both in 5.56 and .308. I hope you didn't misread my post... the posted target is not the 100 yard.. I ll post the 100 yard which is worse but better than I expected still.

BTW..i ll trade you these w/ some M855 p-)

I read it correctly ... you shot the target from 50m, correct? 0.9" group at 50m translates to roughly 1.8" group at 100m. Since 100 yards is less than 100m, therefore the shotgroup for 100 yards is probably better than 1.8" .... 2 MOA = 2" at 100 yards, thus your M855 did better than 2 MOA.

I still have one box of Pindad 308 that I keep for collection sake. But I have not ran into any Pindad 5.56. If you can point me to your source, I would like to purchase some.

I have never mailed any ammo. Do you have to fill out any special paperwork for it? ORM-D status?

[garandman]

They are non stamped... sellers at gunshow typically says it's either used in new condition or simply say doesn't know who made them. This is completely legal. Most won't touch it if they know its chinese made obviously...

Here is the last target we shot... you can see how the fouling is so obvious. 125yard.. ****e and sitting down position..

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=1007&pictureid=12173


Note how I tend to shot high to the right? Cannot seem to fix that!:bash:

Well, I usually get my LPK either from MidwayUSA (DPMS) or from CMMG. I prefer one from CMMG as they go into the receiver much smoother.

On your shot high and to the right ..... I think you have the "heeling" problem in your trigger control. Heeling in trigger control occurs when you abruptly apply more pressure on the trigger by not only involving your trigger finger but also the "heel" of your palm as well. A good trigger control should involve your trigger finger alone, and the pull should be continuous and straight back ... not slanted. Assuming your finger to trigger contact point is good, you should be able to accomplish this as long as you are able to isolate your trigger finger muscle from the muscles of your other fingers and the rest of your hand.

Do some dry firing .... and observe how your sight picture change when the hammer falls. Then pay attention to your grip. Does it change when you drop the hammer? Feel how tight your hand holding the pistol grip before and after the hammer falls. Feel any change in contact points and pressure between your hand and the grip during this process.

[TheBroncos]

Do some dry firing .... and observe how your sight picture change when the hammer falls. Then pay attention to your grip. Does it change when you drop the hammer? Feel how tight your hand holding the pistol grip before and after the hammer falls. Feel any change in contact points and pressure between your hand and the grip during this process.

I remember during my advance pistol class, I had the same issue. The instructor made me put a .45 on top of my glock and had me dry shot them multiple time until I was real steady. Thank you. I ll pay attention to my grip next time around.

As far as ammo sources... look up denver bullet and ammo on 13th st (sorry no website), cologunmarket.com, co-ar15.com, and lately I have been ordering directly from bvac-ammo.com. I hate to say it, but now $400/1k isnt so bad.. I used to get them for $100-150.. good ol days. :bash:

If you want to see chinese parts etc.. go to any gun shows.. note the non stamped BCG, rails, and LPKs... we arent talking about UTG either. No one ever affirmed it... but lil birds have whispered it clearly to my ears. :)

Finally, we seem to have hijacked this thread, lets move it to gear or pm me. I have 3 more boxes of pindad ammo.. I haven't shipped any ammo before but I received plenty of them through UPS. We should be able to manage the shipment. There are some .308 pindad on gunbroker last time I checked.

Cheers

[garandman]

I remember during my advance pistol class, I had the same issue. The instructor made me put a .45 on top of my glock and had me dry shot them multiple time until I was real steady. Thank you. I ll pay attention to my grip next time around.

As far as ammo sources... look up denver bullet and ammo on 13th st (sorry no website), cologunmarket.com, co-ar15.com, and lately I have been ordering directly from bvac-ammo.com. I hate to say it, but now $400/1k isnt so bad.. I used to get them for $100-150.. good ol days. :bash:

If you want to see chinese parts etc.. go to any gun shows.. note the non stamped BCG, rails, and LPKs... we arent talking about UTG either. No one ever affirmed it... but lil birds have whispered it clearly to my ears. :)

Finally, we seem to have hijacked this thread, lets move it to gear or pm me. I have 3 more boxes of pindad ammo.. I haven't shipped any ammo before but I received plenty of them through UPS. We should be able to manage the shipment. There are some .308 pindad on gunbroker last time I checked.

Cheers

I think our discussion is still relevant to this thread since the ammo discussed is manufactured by Pindad and used by TNI too.

Let me know how much I need to send you for the box of Pindad M193. All I need is 1 box of 20 rd.

[TheBroncos]

Shoot me a pm of your zippy. I ll stop by at the UPS store and find more info on the ORM-D stuffs.

Thanks

EDIT..i am trying to find out if there are anymore pindad ammo for sale..maybe you can buy directly instead. So far no luck.. there is a malaysian .308 on the local forum if you are interested.. http://www.cologunmarket.com/mkt/viewtopic.php?t=5235. if I may ask why you collect ammo? Ammo is just ammo to me :)

[garandman]

Shoot me a pm of your zippy. I ll stop by at the UPS store and find more info on the ORM-D stuffs.

Thanks

EDIT..i am trying to find out if there are anymore pindad ammo for sale..maybe you can buy directly instead. So far no luck.. there is a malaysian .308 on the local forum if you are interested.. http://www.cologunmarket.com/mkt/viewtopic.php?t=5235. if I may ask why you collect ammo? Ammo is just ammo to me :)

I don't collect ammo per se, but I do want to keep a handful of samples of surplus ammo that I have used in the past. My box of Pindad-85 308 ammo is the last 20 rounds out of the original 400 I acquired 14 yrs ago. I still have other 308 in greater number to shoot. I am still curious how the Pindad ammo made it to the US market. Was it a contract overrun? Or a factory reject? Or a surplus? Hard to belive it is a contract overrun since the headstamp was dated 1985, yet it showed up in the US market 10 yrs later. Also, 10 yrs is considered too young for ammo to be surplused. So factory reject is more plausible. However, if it were factory second .... why did it take so long for them to reach a surplus market?

If they were surplused .... who surplused them? Was it TNI? Or are there other users of Pindad ammo in position to surplus items like this?

[karbol]

please continue discussion on this thread....:)

it is interesting to me...

talk about Pindad, i have scan Angkasa Magazine about history of our National Assault Riffle...

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/pindad2.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/pindad1.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/pindad3.jpg

interesting thing on the article is Pindad export SS-1 to Cambodia, UEA, and some african country..

[Ominae]

Some of the rifles are awfully familiar. I assume the SP rifles are based from the Beretta BM59s.

Nice stuff on UAE having the SS-1s. Never expected it. Which magazine is it from?

[TheBroncos]

I am sure pindad has exported ammo to other countries. Surplus ammo isn't necessarily from an old batch. They could simply from a bad batch or non-QC ones. I wouldn't assume it's black market ammo as most of those would be going to certain regional groups first as they are in higher demand instead of US civil market.. e.g.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2002/05/23/police-foil-attempt-smuggle-arms-gam.html

http://www.tempointeraktif.com/share/?act=TmV3cw==&type=UHJpbnQ=&media=bmV3cw==&y=JEdMT0JBTFNbeV0=&m=JEdMT0JBTFNbbV0=&d=JEdMT0JBTFNbZF0=&id=OTcwNTU=

btw... Garand, do you want the .308 or the 5.56. I am assuming the 5.56 since you said you have a box of 308. I live by I-70 about 2 states west of you :D

I got to snap some picts of the upper before i clean it tonight... REAL DIRTY!
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=1007&pictureid=12214
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=1007&pictureid=12213
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=1007&pictureid=12212
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/picture.php?albumid=1007&pictureid=12211

[Ominae]

From reading the article further, I assume that the S-77 rifle/carbine are working prototypes that wasn't accepted by the Indonesian military.

[garandman]

I am sure pindad has exported ammo to other countries. Surplus ammo doesn't necessary it's an old batch. They can simply be bad batch or non-QC ones. I wouldn't assume it's black market ammo as most of those would be going to certain regional groups first as they are in higher demand instead of US civil market.. e.g.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2002/05/23/police-foil-attempt-smuggle-arms-gam.html

http://www.tempointeraktif.com/share/?act=TmV3cw==&type=UHJpbnQ=&media=bmV3cw==&y=JEdMT0JBTFNbeV0=&m=JEdMT0JBTFNbbV0=&d=JEdMT0JBTFNbZF0=&id=OTcwNTU=

btw... you want the .308 or the 5.56, garand. I am assuming the 5.56 since you said you have a box of 308

Oh I know. But bad batch or non-QC ones are usually discovered and scrapped (or surplused) more quickly. I have used tons of Spanish Santa Barbara SS109 with head-stamp dated 1993-94. The ammo was available in the US market in 1998-2002. Reason for dumping them? Bad annealing process on the casing. The casings are softer than normal. People got quite a bit FTE when the extractor simply ripped away a piece of the case head. But the ammo is very accurate. I use it as practice ammo with my Bushmaster DCM rifle. Just don't forget to bring a cleaning rod to dislodge the stuck brass from the chamber.

Another batch of new but substandard ammo that hit the surplus market was the ADCOM SS109 from UAE. Remember those? This was available around 2005-2006, and the headstamp on this ammo was as recent as 2004! So if the Pindad ammo in the US market was indeed a bad batch or non-QC compliant ..... one would expect to see them hitting the surplus market much earlier than they did.

The fact that these surplus batches did not reach those conflict areas in Indonesia lead me to believe that they were disposed of through proper channels.

Curious, which other countries or military had bought ammo from Pindad in the past.

I need just 1 box of Pindad's 5.56. We can do two tests with 10-rd each using a 1x12" A1 upper and a 1x7" A2 upper (both chromelined). 10 data points each should be good enough for generating the stats off the chronograph readings. Let me know how much it will set you back to send me 1 box of ammo. If it is reasonable enough, we can go ahead with this. Otherwise .... I'll try to order the ammo direct from a vendor.

How many rounds did you put through that AR? It does look filthy, but not too bad. Except for the chamber ... it looks really dirty! What are those stuff on the chamber walls?? Lacquer? Get your chamber brush out .... those stuff have gotta come off.
Wanna get your AR really dirty? Go shoot some blanks with BFA attached ... hehehehe.

Hey, I-70 also passes through my area ... just a few miles south of my place.

[Ominae]

please continue discussion on this thread....:)

it is interesting to me...

talk about Pindad, i have scan Angkasa Magazine about history of our National Assault Riffle...

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/pindad2.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/pindad1.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/pindad3.jpg

interesting thing on the article is Pindad export SS-1 to Cambodia, UEA, and some african country..

Hey karbol, any more info on the rifles shown in the article (The first one)?

[karbol]

Hey karbol, any more info on the rifles shown in the article (The first one)?

it is said on the article, SP-1 (senapan panjang-1/ Long riffle-1) was use as standart infantri riffle.. SP-1 was a modification from Baretta BM-59MK1, cal 7,62X51mm.

Pindad produce around 50,000 of them. and then, the riffle developed into SP-2 and SP-3. TNI use those riffle on East Timor Ops during 70's. but the result was so bad. there were a lot of problem...

and then Pindad decide to design their own assault riffle on 1976. the riffle called SS-77, cal 5,56NATO. the design was based on AR-18, with rotating bolt and gas operated mechanism.. the SS-77 also being developed as SS-79 with larger calibre, 7,62 NATO.

but the SS-77 and SS-79 Never enter mass production or being use as standar Infantri assault riffle. because the developing of the riffle will cost a lot of money and budget. so, Indonesia Govt decide to buy a license...

[TheBroncos]

Oh I know. But bad batch or non-QC ones are usually discovered and scrapped (or surplused) more quickly. I have used tons of Spanish Santa Barbara SS109 with head-stamp dated 1993-94. The ammo was available in the US market in 1998-2002. Reason for dumping them? Bad annealing process on the casing. The casings are softer than normal. People got quite a bit FTE when the extractor simply ripped away a piece of the case head. But the ammo is very accurate. I use it as practice ammo with my Bushmaster DCM rifle. Just don't forget to bring a cleaning rod to dislodge the stuck brass from the chamber.

Another batch of new but substandard ammo that hit the surplus market was the ADCOM SS109 from UAE. Remember those? This was available around 2005-2006, and the headstamp on this ammo was as recent as 2004! So if the Pindad ammo in the US market was indeed a bad batch or non-QC compliant ..... one would expect to see them hitting the surplus market much earlier than they did.

The fact that these surplus batches did not reach those conflict areas in Indonesia lead me to believe that they were disposed of through proper channels.

Curious, which other countries or military had bought ammo from Pindad in the past.

I need just 1 box of Pindad's 5.56. We can do two tests with 10-rd each using a 1x12" A1 upper and a 1x7" A2 upper (both chromelined). 10 data points each should be good enough for generating the stats off the chronograph readings. Let me know how much it will set you back to send me 1 box of ammo. If it is reasonable enough, we can go ahead with this. Otherwise .... I'll try to order the ammo direct from a vendor.

How many rounds did you put through that AR? It does look filthy, but not too bad. Except for the chamber ... it looks really dirty! What are those stuff on the chamber walls?? Lacquer? Get your chamber brush out .... those stuff have gotta come off.
Wanna get your AR really dirty? Go shoot some blanks with BFA attached ... hehehehe.

Hey, I-70 also passes through my area ... just a few miles south of my place.

I was trying to figure out what are those sticky stuffs.. gotta be lacquer, but I didn't shoot any steel cased ammo. I brushed the damn thing for a good 20 minutes.. I probably will have to snake the gas tube.

I wouldnt know anything about BFA and fouling... I never served :) So do you have a case of M855?

[Ominae]

it is said on the article, SP-1 (senapan panjang-1/ Long riffle-1) was use as standart infantri riffle.. SP-1 was a modification from Baretta BM-59MK1, cal 7,62X51mm.

Pindad produce around 50,000 of them. and then, the riffle developed into SP-2 and SP-3. TNI use those riffle on East Timor Ops during 70's. but the result was so bad. there were a lot of problem...

and then Pindad decide to design their own assault riffle on 1976. the riffle called SS-77, cal 5,56NATO. the design was based on AR-18, with rotating bolt and gas operated mechanism.. the SS-77 also being developed as SS-79 with larger calibre, 7,62 NATO.

but the SS-77 and SS-79 Never enter mass production or being use as standar Infantri assault riffle. because the developing of the riffle will cost a lot of money and budget. so, Indonesia Govt decide to buy a license...

Wasn't it called Bandung Weapons Factory for Pindad before? What kinds of problems for the SP rifles? Jamming based from the modification to suit the tropic region?

PS - What's the difference between SP-2 and SP-3?

[McAssoy]

something to read...

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/lpd5.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/lpd2.jpg
should one of you tell me the difference between LPD and LST please...
sorry, newbie just want to know... :)
or LPD is more similiar to an helo carrier..?

[garandman]

I was trying to figure out what are those sticky stuffs.. gotta be lacquer, but I didn't shoot any steel cased ammo. I brushed the damn thing for a good 20 minutes.. I probably will have to snake the gas tube.

I wouldnt know anything about BFA and fouling... I never served :) So do you have a case of M855?

Does any of those ammo you shot have neck sealant? Lacquer from the neck sealant could leave residue in the chamber as well.

I used up my stash of SS109 long time ago. It was my practice ammo. Then they got expensive, so I started reloading. I used to shoot NRA service rifle competition several years ago. So my style of shooting and practice did not take too much ammo. Now I have resorted to shooting 22LR with conversion kit out of my AR to keep the cost down. Hell, I have not fired any 223 since last November when I took down a doe using an A2 with iron sight only.

Never served myself. Just been around ROTC training to see lots of blanks being fired.

[garandman]

Wasn't it called Bandung Weapons Factory for Pindad before? What kinds of problems for the SP rifles? Jamming based from the modification to suit the tropic region?

PS - What's the difference between SP-2 and SP-3?

Not a first hand account, but I have a friend who has served as freelance consultant to both Pindad and TNI on small arms issues who told me that the SP rifles were plagued with manufacturing and training issues. The parts consistency on the SP rifles from Pindad were not that good. SP is a derivative of an M1 Garand, so parts quality is critical. Trigger group falling off a rifle during use is one of the symptoms of loose fitting parts.

But not all the soldiers who carried the rifles during E. Timor operation received adequate training either. For example .... there were stories about gas plug flying off the front end of a gas cylinder on an SP1 during combat. I commented that keeping the gas plug tightened is the most important thing to keep the M1 operational. Since the SP was a derivative of the M1 I thought a loose gas plug was a known field maintenance that a soldier must do at all time. That's why they include a tool set in the buttstock of an M1. Then my friend chimed in saying .... yeah, the SP1 also came with the same tool, but many soldiers did not even know how to use the tool, or that the rifle even came with one.

I wish I could get my hand on a Pindad's SP1 .... would make a nice addition to my M1 collection.

[toukairin]

mr G, i have some pics of the SP-2. It's from the inventory of PUSDIKPENGMILUM (Pusat Pendidikan Pengajar Militer Umum/General Military Instructor Education Centre), located at Cimahi, West Java. My unit (1st Batt., Student Regiment Mahawarman) use them as "senjata pegangan" (lit. : weapon-to-hold).

Links :
http://s.itb.ac.id/%7Etoukairin354/files/SP-2.jpg

http://s.itb.ac.id/%7Etoukairin354/files/pose%20SP-2.jpg

Oh, bonus for you : a nightmare (kan tidak boleh dibalik di lantai hahaha!)
http://s.itb.ac.id/%7Etoukairin354/files/dijejer%20di%20lantai.jpg

[Ominae]

Not a first hand account, but I have a friend who has served as freelance consultant to both Pindad and TNI on small arms issues who told me that the SP rifles were plagued with manufacturing and training issues. The parts consistency on the SP rifles from Pindad were not that good. SP is a derivative of an M1 Garand, so parts quality is critical. Trigger group falling off a rifle during use is one of the symptoms of loose fitting parts.

But not all the soldiers who carried the rifles during E. Timor operation received adequate training either. For example .... there were stories about gas plug flying off the front end of a gas cylinder on an SP1 during combat. I commented that keeping the gas plug tightened is the most important thing to keep the M1 operational. Since the SP was a derivative of the M1 I thought a loose gas plug was a known field maintenance that a soldier must do at all time. That's why they include a tool set in the buttstock of an M1. Then my friend chimed in saying .... yeah, the SP1 also came with the same tool, but many soldiers did not even know how to use the tool, or that the rifle even came with one.

I wish I could get my hand on a Pindad's SP1 .... would make a nice addition to my M1 collection.

Thanks. Looks like constant maintenance was a bigger problem than loose parts.

Did Pindad create the SP rifles at the Bandung Weapons Factory?

Oh yeah, is the SP-2 and SP-3 different by the buttstock mainly? Seems the SP-3 is meant to be a light support weapon? Not sure what role the SP-2 does.

[toukairin]

@ominae
I think what differs the SP-1 and SP-2 is that the SP-2 by default has a foldable sight for rifle-grenade launcher, CMIIW.

SP-3, as you can see, has a pistol-grip. The SP-1 and 2 aren't.

[Ominae]

Thanks. Wanted to clarify on whether the SP-3's meant to be a LSW.

Does Bandung have Pindad-affiliated weapons factory under Pindad?

[Kopassus]

should one of you tell me the difference between LPD and LST please...
sorry, newbie just want to know... :)
or LPD is more similiar to an helo carrier..?
Thanks!


Landing Ship, Tank (LST) was the military designation for naval vessels created during World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II) to support amphibious operations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_operation) by carrying significant quantities of vehicles, cargo, and landing troops (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_troops) directly onto an unimproved shore. Mostly around 100 meters, but always smaller than 115 m.
Example: Kelas Teluk Semangka 512 LST

An amphibious transport dock (also called a landing platform dock or LPD) is an amphibious warfare ship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_warfare_ship), a warship that embarks, transports, and lands elements of a landing force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_force) for expeditionary warfare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expeditionary_warfare) missions. The ships are generally designed to transport troops into a war zone by sea, primarily using landing craft, although invariably they also have the capability to operate transport helicopters.
Amphibious transport docks perform the mission of amphibious transports (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_vehicle), amphibious cargo ships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_cargo_ship), and the older LPDs by incorporating both a flight deck and a well deck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_deck) that can be ballasted and deballasted to support landing craft or amphibious vehicles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_vehicle). Are normally bigger than LSTs.
Nice example: The KRI Soeharso 990 (formally KRI Tanjung Dalpele 972) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KRI_Tanjung_Dalpele

Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) are even more bigger but they look like mini aircraft carriers.

Indonesian made Tigre model, looks really good:
http://www.detik.com/images/content/2009/04/14/501/coverplat.jpg
(Taken from Detik.com)

Can anyone confirm this:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=155318
"Pro-West Papuan separatists reported to have downed an Indonesian C-130 Hercules " Sounds like bull....
Nothing about it on Indonesian news sites or BBCnews.com

[garandman]

mr G, i have some pics of the SP-2. It's from the inventory of PUSDIKPENGMILUM (Pusat Pendidikan Pengajar Militer Umum/General Military Instructor Education Centre), located at Cimahi, West Java. My unit (1st Batt., Student Regiment Mahawarman) use them as "senjata pegangan" (lit. : weapon-to-hold).

Links :
http://s.itb.ac.id/%7Etoukairin354/files/SP-2.jpg

http://s.itb.ac.id/%7Etoukairin354/files/pose%20SP-2.jpg


HALT !!!! Finger off trigger you maggot!! Now get down and give me 20 !!



Oh, bonus for you : a nightmare (kan tidak boleh dibalik di lantai hahaha!)
http://s.itb.ac.id/%7Etoukairin354/files/dijejer%20di%20lantai.jpg

Is this a revenge? p-)
Did Pak ZA tell you to do this as a retaliation for causing him to becoming unconscious and drooling uncontrollably after I posted the photos of my collection? You guys are cruel! What did these rifles ever do to you? I hope you get the rear aperture all the way down before torturing these rifles against the floor this way. Poor rifles ...

I wish someday I could have Pindad made rifles and pistols in my collection .. :-(

[TheBroncos]

Can anyone confirm this:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=155318
"Pro-West Papuan separatists reported to have downed an Indonesian C-130 Hercules " Sounds like bull....
Nothing about it on Indonesian news sites or BBCnews.com[/QUOTE]

http://www.rnzi.com/pages/news.php?op=read&id=45936

The story has not been picked up by any other outlet.

[Ominae]

Don't know. Seems that no other news site has picked it up.

PS - Seems the SS-1 had been exported to Nigeria. Can someone with Indonesian fluency correct me if I'm wrong based from the article. And yeah, need someone to help me confirm if there's info that Pindad created the SP-1 from its Bandung factory?

[karbol]

Can anyone confirm this:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=155318
"Pro-West Papuan separatists reported to have downed an Indonesian C-130 Hercules " Sounds like bull....
Nothing about it on Indonesian news sites or BBCnews.com

http://www.rnzi.com/pages/news.php?op=read&id=45936

The story has not been picked up by any other outlet.[/quote]

it's not true... i know for sure...

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/04/14/new-suspect-attacks-papua-continue.html

[karbol]

PS - Seems the SS-1 had been exported to Nigeria. Can someone with Indonesian fluency correct me if I'm wrong based from the article. And yeah, need someone to help me confirm if there's info that Pindad created the SP-1 from its Bandung factory?

based on the article, yes. Pindad exported SS-1 to nigeria...

and yes, SP-1 was created from Bandung. and old name of Pindad was Pabrik Senjata dan Mesiu...

[toukairin]

HALT !!!! Finger off trigger you maggot!! Now get down and give me 20 !!



Is this a revenge? p-)
Did Pak ZA tell you to do this as a retaliation for causing him to becoming unconscious and drooling uncontrollably after I posted the photos of my collection? You guys are cruel! What did these rifles ever do to you? I hope you get the rear aperture all the way down before torturing these rifles against the floor this way. Poor rifles ...

I wish someday I could have Pindad made rifles and pistols in my collection .. :-(

haha, i'll tell the kids later about the finger off trigger. But whenever i see them holding an airsoft rifle, i'd always tell them to put their finger off the trigger... treat it like a real firearm, so that whenever you're holding a real one, nobody would risk getting hurt or killed because of your damn finger! :D

hahaha, nonono, it's as usual : it's how the lecturers/trainer/GUMIL taught them to put the rifle on the floor... maybe the Army thinks that "hey this gun ain't used anymore, might as well treat them like a big stick!"

[Ominae]

Thanks karbol. Owe you one. :D

[karbol]

happy birthday to Indonesia Airforces.... SWA BHUANA PAKSA!!

and here you go the pics of our Flanker...

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/TNI-AU/flanker6.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/TNI-AU/flanker5.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/TNI-AU/flanker4.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/TNI-AU/flanker3.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/TNI-AU/flanker2.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/TNI-AU/flanker1.jpg

[garandman]

haha, i'll tell the kids later about the finger off trigger. But whenever i see them holding an airsoft rifle, i'd always tell them to put their finger off the trigger... treat it like a real firearm, so that whenever you're holding a real one, nobody would risk getting hurt or killed because of your damn finger! :D

hahaha, nonono, it's as usual : it's how the lecturers/trainer/GUMIL taught them to put the rifle on the floor... maybe the Army thinks that "hey this gun ain't used anymore, might as well treat them like a big stick!"

I am surprised someone who has been through basic still makes safety infraction as simple as keeping finger off trigger when not shooting. What other firearm safety rules would he violate? Sweeping his buddies with the muzzle? You need to drive home the safety issues to your guys there. If they cannot follow the safety rules, they should not hold a gun at all.

I know, I was just kidding on the rifle treatment. Yes, placing an M1 (and its derivatives) upside down is the position used when field stripping the rifle. Why? Because you can use both hands freely to unlock the trigger guard in order to remove the trigger group. Left hand pushing the buttstock down, and your right hand yanking out the trigger guard. This position also prevents the trigger group dropping off the stock unexpectedly once the trigger guard is unlatched. BUT .... they did this on wooden table! Not on hard concrete or tiled floor like that. I have the M1 training video from WW2 and they did the maintenance etc. on wooden table with the rear sight bottomed out (so it was the rear sight guard that props the rifle up). Protect your sight at all cost. No matter what rifle you have, if your sight is busted, you and your rifle will be less effective.

[toukairin]

I am surprised someone who has been through basic still makes safety infraction as simple as keeping finger off trigger when not shooting. What other firearm safety rules would he violate? Sweeping his buddies with the muzzle? You need to drive home the safety issues to your guys there. If they cannot follow the safety rules, they should not hold a gun at all.

I know, I was just kidding on the rifle treatment. Yes, placing an M1 (and its derivatives) upside down is the position used when field stripping the rifle. Why? Because you can use both hands freely to unlock the trigger guard in order to remove the trigger group. Left hand pushing the buttstock down, and your right hand yanking out the trigger guard. This position also prevents the trigger group dropping off the stock unexpectedly once the trigger guard is unlatched. BUT .... they did this on wooden table! Not on hard concrete or tiled floor like that. I have the M1 training video from WW2 and they did the maintenance etc. on wooden table with the rear sight bottomed out (so it was the rear sight guard that props the rifle up). Protect your sight at all cost. No matter what rifle you have, if your sight is busted, you and your rifle will be less effective.

beg your pardon sir, my unit's latest batch hasn't underwent any firearms training yet. The TNI rejected our firearms basic training proposal with many reasons, most of them unreasonable. But hey, "siapa sih kita???". So we'd have to go with their decisions.

Another look at the SP and Carl/Karl Gustav/Gustaf (tidak tahu mana ejaan yang benar?) :
http://s.itb.ac.id/%7Etoukairin354/files/deretan%20SP.jpg

http://s.itb.ac.id/%7Etoukairin354/files/barisan%20SP+Gustav.jpg

[garandman]

^^^

Aha! That explains it.
When I saw this guy already wearing a beret, I immediately assumed that he had been through basic. 'Basic' training in my understanding would also include basic weapon and marksmanship training ... which includes safety training as well. Thus my final assumption that he was simply *not* following the safety rules already taught to him.

So training for Menwa now does not include weapon training?? Please explain.

[Ominae]

Pindad PM1 smgs? Interesting.

[Kopassus]

Thanks for the pics of the MK and MK2 Karbol!

Another look at the SP and Carl/Karl Gustav/Gustaf (tidak tahu mana ejaan yang benar?) :



Menwa? Dari Univ yg mana?

[toukairin]

^^^

Aha! That explains it.
When I saw this guy already wearing a beret, I immediately assumed that he had been through basic. 'Basic' training in my understanding would also include basic weapon and marksmanship training ... which includes safety training as well. Thus my final assumption that he was simply *not* following the safety rules already taught to him.

So training for Menwa now does not include weapon training?? Please explain.

Well WE'D LIKE IT TO BE SO... but TNI's policy in the KODAM level varies from year to year, from a PANGKODAM to another... One year we could bring the Garand for our Long March, another year we'd have to use our woody/resin duckies...

ASAP, if we're lucky enough, and with enough RpRpRp, we'd go on with basic weapons training.

I'm still thinking how to make my members "brave" enough to do squad tactics exercise or STX at campus.. shouting DOR DOR DOR! with our duckies...

@Kopassus
Just look at my avatar... What university has an elephant as the logo? woot

[garandman]

Well WE'D LIKE IT TO BE SO... but TNI's policy in the KODAM level varies from year to year, from a PANGKODAM to another... One year we could bring the Garand for our Long March, another year we'd have to use our woody/resin duckies...

ASAP, if we're lucky enough, and with enough RpRpRp, we'd go on with basic weapons training.

I'm still thinking how to make my members "brave" enough to do squad tactics exercise or STX at campus.. shouting DOR DOR DOR! with our duckies...

@Kopassus
Just look at my avatar... What university has an elephant as the logo? woot

Wait ..... who has to pay for the weapons training? I thought training Menwa is part of Kodam responsibility?

Well, you will be green with envy if I tell you this ..... this coming weekend, the Marine ROTC platoon will duke it out with the OpFor platoon consisting of Army and AF ROTC, augmented by civilian students, and professionals (lawyers, police officers, engineers, accountants). The Marines will fight the battle using the conventional US tactics. The OpFor, on the other hand, will conduct insurgent type operations to help train the Marines to see the strengths and weakneses of the conventional tactics. The FTX will start Friday afternoon and will end Sunday morning. It will be an all out, balls to the walls, battles for the Marines ..... because 2 yrs ago, they got kicked in the nuts by the OpFor. I wish I could participate to this one ..... alas, got a wedding to attend. But I might go as an observer part of Saturday morning and Sunday morning.

[501st_airborne]

Well WE'D LIKE IT TO BE SO... but TNI's policy in the KODAM level varies from year to year, from a PANGKODAM to another... One year we could bring the Garand for our Long March, another year we'd have to use our woody/resin duckies...

ASAP, if we're lucky enough, and with enough RpRpRp, we'd go on with basic weapons training.

I'm still thinking how to make my members "brave" enough to do squad tactics exercise or STX at campus.. shouting DOR DOR DOR! with our duckies...

@Kopassus
Just look at my avatar... What university has an elephant as the logo? woot

Gajah Mada University :D

[toukairin]

Wait ..... who has to pay for the weapons training? I thought training Menwa is part of Kodam responsibility?

Well, you will be green with envy if I tell you this ..... this coming weekend, the Marine ROTC platoon will duke it out with the OpFor platoon consisting of Army and AF ROTC, augmented by civilian students, and professionals (lawyers, police officers, engineers, accountants). The Marines will fight the battle using the conventional US tactics. The OpFor, on the other hand, will conduct insurgent type operations to help train the Marines to see the strengths and weakneses of the conventional tactics. The FTX will start Friday afternoon and will end Sunday morning. It will be an all out, balls to the walls, battles for the Marines ..... because 2 yrs ago, they got kicked in the nuts by the OpFor. I wish I could participate to this one ..... alas, got a wedding to attend. But I might go as an observer part of Saturday morning and Sunday morning.

KODAM? Darimana pak? There's no such thing since year 2000, with SKB 3 Menteri th 2000. Menwa became a Student Activity Unit under each respective campus.

This is one of the reasons many units are starting to die one by one, losing members, funding, etc... Well maybe it's part of the global conspiracy to dismantle the potential of the youth for the national security, I dunno!

Our budget came from Alumni and other donations...

Weeee wow. Will the FTX utilize MILES? I'm still finding out how to make cheap laser tag systems to be attached to our duckies...


@501st
TETOOOOOT! Salah besar!
My campus' other name : Sitting Elephant Campus (Kampus Gajah Duduk).

[garandman]

KODAM? Darimana pak? There's no such thing since year 2000, with SKB 3 Menteri th 2000. Menwa became a Student Activity Unit under each respective campus.

This is one of the reasons many units are starting to die one by one, losing members, funding, etc... Well maybe it's part of the global conspiracy to dismantle the potential of the youth for the national security, I dunno!

Our budget came from Alumni and other donations...

Weeee wow. Will the FTX utilize MILES? I'm still finding out how to make cheap laser tag systems to be attached to our duckies...


I heard about the SKB, but had no idea it practically 'killed' Menwa. So if a Menwa battalion wishes to recruit new members and they need to go through basic ...... the battalion itself has to raise the funds for it? So you send the proposal to the local military command for facilities, instructors, equipments, and cost estimate. Then if the military agrees, the Menwa battalion reimburses the military for their assistance in conducting the basic training? So this how it works now?

Yes, the FTX tomorrow will utilize MILES-2000 units. I heard from Chris that only 40 units are available (not sure about the additional 8 he planned to procure). The Marines will probably field between 30-36 men & women. The OpFor count now stands at 23. I don't know how they will make the FTX work with only 40 MILES. My guess is they will rotate the active squads around. Each platoon is organized into 3 squads. At any given time, you will have 1 squad out on mission, 1 squad manning the defensive perimeters around the FOB/PB, and 1 squad on stand down (sleep) without MILES.

[Kopassus]

I heard about the SKB, but had no idea it practically 'killed' Menwa. So if a Menwa battalion wishes to recruit new members and they need to go through basic ...... the battalion itself has to raise the funds for it? So you send the proposal to the local military command for facilities, instructors, equipments, and cost estimate. Then if the military agrees, the Menwa battalion reimburses the military for their assistance in conducting the basic training? So this how it works now?

Yes, the FTX tomorrow will utilize MILES-2000 units. I heard from Chris that only 40 units are available (not sure about the additional 8 he planned to procure). The Marines will probably field between 30-36 men & women. The OpFor count now stands at 23. I don't know how they will make the FTX work with only 40 MILES. My guess is they will rotate the active squads around. Each platoon is organized into 3 squads. At any given time, you will have 1 squad out on mission, 1 squad manning the defensive perimeters around the FOB/PB, and 1 squad on stand down (sleep) without MILES.
Marine ROTC? FTX? Miles-2000? FOB/PB? Chris?? I dont understand anything.

Ups, i forgot something, yesterday... Dirgahayu Komando Pasukan Khusus!!!

Taken from Angkasa:
On HUT TNI-AU they showed pridely the haitekh stet ofdi art weapons of the Su-30MK(2)
http://www.angkasa-online.com/photo/image/COMMANDO/BOM.jpg
:oops:
To keep intruders out of our airspace.... :-(

[garandman]

Marine ROTC? FTX? Miles-2000? FOB/PB? Chris?? I dont understand anything.

Ups, i forgot something, yesterday... Dirgahayu Komando Pasukan Khusus!!!

Taken from Angkasa:
On HUT TNI-AU they showed pridely the haitekh stet ofdi art weapons of the Su-30MK(2)
http://www.angkasa-online.com/photo/image/COMMANDO/BOM.jpg
:oops:
To keep intruders out of our airspace.... :-(

ROTC = Reserve Officer Training Corps ~ similar but not equivalent to Menwa

FTX = Field Training eXercise ~ Force-on-Force training lasting for 2 days straight.

MILES-2000 = Multiple Integrated Laser Engagement Systems ~ MILES-2000 is a product of Cubic System Inc., currently used by US military. This is a laser system that consists of a laser emitter mounted on the gun that works with blanks, and hit sensors worn by troops or vehicles participating in the exercise.

FOB = Forward Operation Base

PB = Patrol Base

Chris = Chris Larsen, the owner of TacCom Media Inc., a private company that offers leadership development training using MILES. TacCom also loans both weapons and MILES to ROTC for their STX and FTX as part of the company's non-profit civic programs.

[Kopassus]

O, thanks, i already got confused, but its about foreign/US things.

[garandman]

O, thanks, i already got confused, but its about foreign/US things.

I believe Toukairin has been conducting a comparative study on US ROTC program and its applicability to the Menwa program in Indonesia. So, yes, the FTX mentioned above will be executed by a specific ROTC unit in the US, but I mentioned it here knowing the fact that Toukarin has been working on a training model for Menwa using various domestic and foreign resources where US ROTC is one of them.

[toukairin]

I heard about the SKB, but had no idea it practically 'killed' Menwa. So if a Menwa battalion wishes to recruit new members and they need to go through basic ...... the battalion itself has to raise the funds for it? So you send the proposal to the local military command for facilities, instructors, equipments, and cost estimate. Then if the military agrees, the Menwa battalion reimburses the military for their assistance in conducting the basic training? So this how it works now?

Yes, the FTX tomorrow will utilize MILES-2000 units. I heard from Chris that only 40 units are available (not sure about the additional 8 he planned to procure). The Marines will probably field between 30-36 men & women. The OpFor count now stands at 23. I don't know how they will make the FTX work with only 40 MILES. My guess is they will rotate the active squads around. Each platoon is organized into 3 squads. At any given time, you will have 1 squad out on mission, 1 squad manning the defensive perimeters around the FOB/PB, and 1 squad on stand down (sleep) without MILES.

Yup we raised the funds ourselves.
Wow I'm amazed you got it all in one shot, sir...

Hoooaaa, 40 units are a lot! I think KOPASSUS' own MILES are already history...

I've already got the STX training DVD, Sir, looked at it, pretty good. Now still thinking how to get them to do "dor dor dor!" on campus...

[501st_airborne]

@501st
TETOOOOOT! Salah besar!
My campus' other name : Sitting Elephant Campus (Kampus Gajah Duduk).

LOL i just kidding mate... ur campus is one of the best technological university in southern hemisphere right? CMIIW

[nata4190]

I heard about the SKB, but had no idea it practically 'killed' Menwa. So if a Menwa battalion wishes to recruit new members and they need to go through basic ...... the battalion itself has to raise the funds for it? So you send the proposal to the local military command for facilities, instructors, equipments, and cost estimate. Then if the military agrees, the Menwa battalion reimburses the military for their assistance in conducting the basic training? So this how it works now?

Yes, the FTX tomorrow will utilize MILES-2000 units. I heard from Chris that only 40 units are available (not sure about the additional 8 he planned to procure). The Marines will probably field between 30-36 men & women. The OpFor count now stands at 23. I don't know how they will make the FTX work with only 40 MILES. My guess is they will rotate the active squads around. Each platoon is organized into 3 squads. At any given time, you will have 1 squad out on mission, 1 squad manning the defensive perimeters around the FOB/PB, and 1 squad on stand down (sleep) without MILES.


Garandman, your a Navy/ Marine Corps Option Midshipman? Which unit?

[garandman]

Garandman, your a Navy/ Marine Corps Option Midshipman? Which unit?

Nope. I am just a civilian. I work for a university and these cadets belong to the ROTC at my univ. I am not officially affiliated with the ROTC. But quite a few of these cadets are my friends. I am involved in their extra curricular training from time to time.

[toukairin]

@501st
what? best in southern hemisphere? yea right... -_- there's still NTU... NTU got into top 500 univ in Jiaotong and THES, my campus didn't!

@garandman
GO M***OU! :D

[nata4190]

Nope. I am just a civilian. I work for a university and these cadets belong to the ROTC at my univ. I am not officially affiliated with the ROTC. But quite a few of these cadets are my friends. I am involved in their extra curricular training from time to time.

Right on brother

[karbol]

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/polisi/DSC_5799.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/polisi/DSC_5978.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/polisi/DSC_6080.jpg

credit to WIRO@ARC

[501st_airborne]

@501st
what? best in southern hemisphere? yea right... -_- there's still NTU... NTU got into top 500 univ in Jiaotong and THES, my campus didn't!



NTU is at northern hemisphere mate... check the latest coordinate of singapore city, or did they expand their coastal line beyond the equator? lol

[r0m8470]

So $7M later, all TNI got was some iron bombs, cannon rounds (rudal cannon anybody .... :P), and some unguided rocket pods. Note that TNI does not show the rockets .... makes you wonder if there ARE some rockets huh ...... Maybe TNI just got the pods ...... :(

Who's getting rich on that deal I wonder ..... ?

Oh I know ... maybe they keep everything in secrecy ... like the TD2000, sorry has to go there ....

It seems like TNI, people's assembly and the administration in general always bungle procurement activities? It just touched a nerve - I work as a procurement mgr on a Fortune 100 company - it's not that complicated ...





Taken from Angkasa:
On HUT TNI-AU they showed pridely the haitekh stet ofdi art weapons of the Su-30MK(2)
http://www.angkasa-online.com/photo/image/COMMANDO/BOM.jpg
:oops:
To keep intruders out of our airspace.... :-([/QUOTE]

[McAssoy]

Thanks!


Landing Ship, Tank (LST) was the military designation for naval vessels created during World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II) to support amphibious operations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_operation) by carrying significant quantities of vehicles, cargo, and landing troops (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_troops) directly onto an unimproved shore. Mostly around 100 meters, but always smaller than 115 m.
Example: Kelas Teluk Semangka 512 LST

An amphibious transport dock (also called a landing platform dock or LPD) is an amphibious warfare ship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_warfare_ship), a warship that embarks, transports, and lands elements of a landing force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_force) for expeditionary warfare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expeditionary_warfare) missions. The ships are generally designed to transport troops into a war zone by sea, primarily using landing craft, although invariably they also have the capability to operate transport helicopters.
Amphibious transport docks perform the mission of amphibious transports (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_vehicle), amphibious cargo ships (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_cargo_ship), and the older LPDs by incorporating both a flight deck and a well deck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_deck) that can be ballasted and deballasted to support landing craft or amphibious vehicles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amphibious_vehicle). Are normally bigger than LSTs.
Nice example: The KRI Soeharso 990 (formally KRI Tanjung Dalpele 972) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KRI_Tanjung_Dalpele

Landing Helicopter Dock (LHD) are even more bigger but they look like mini aircraft carriers.

Indonesian made Tigre model, looks really good:
http://www.detik.com/images/content/2009/04/14/501/coverplat.jpg
(Taken from Detik.com)

Can anyone confirm this:
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=155318
"Pro-West Papuan separatists reported to have downed an Indonesian C-130 Hercules " Sounds like bull....
Nothing about it on Indonesian news sites or BBCnews.com
thanks for your nice explanation about LST and LPD Mr Kopassus... :)

yes.. the Tigre model looks really good.. woot
is it a next project of PT DI..?

hmm.. I didn't ever believe that rubbish news...
our C-130 never shot down by West Papuan separatist...
it's just blown up by 'wartawan bodex' .. :bash:

[karbol]

credit to Raider@angkasareaders

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/a.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/b.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/c.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/nocan.jpg

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/tiga.jpg

[Kopassus]

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp44/barong1978/polisi/DSC_6080.jpg

credit to WIRO@ARC
Thanks for the pics Karbol!
Brimob? 7,62mm machinegun?
How many Barracudas does Brimob have?

[karbol]

Thanks for the pics Karbol!
Brimob? 7,62mm machinegun?
How many Barracudas does Brimob have?

yup... Satuan Pelopor Brimob...

not sure about the number of Barracuda..

[toukairin]

NTU is at northern hemisphere mate... check the latest coordinate of singapore city, or did they expand their coastal line beyond the equator? lol
Thx for the correction, but i made the assumption based on that S'pore is also ASEAN country, hehehe.

[GreenTea]

yup... Satuan Pelopor Brimob...

not sure about the number of Barracuda..

What is the different between Satuan Pelopor Brimob and Resimen Pelopor? As far as i know, Pelopor is Sabhara, not the Brimob.

[Ominae]

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1138/pistolserbu01bydislitba.jpg

Pistol Serbu brochure.

Courtesy of TNI AD, said to be the creator of the weapon. Is it still in working prototype stage?

PS - Any Pindad small arms updates, especially if the SM-3 LMGs are in service or are not?

[Kopassus]

Pistol Serbu brochure.

Courtesy of TNI AD, said to be the creator of the weapon. Is it still in working prototype stage?

PS - Any Pindad small arms updates, especially if the SM-3 LMGs are in service or are not?
Thanks for posting! Looks really great!
Some days ago i saw Robocop 2 with his gun on the telly...but this is a real one...

[Ominae]

Except it has 5.56 x 21 mm bullets instead of 9mm.

Seems to be indigenously made in Indonesia.

[nata4190]

What is the different between Satuan Pelopor Brimob and Resimen Pelopor? As far as i know, Pelopor is Sabhara, not the Brimob.

Men Pelopor is now call Satuan 2 Pelopor, Brimob Mabes Polri.

[GreenTea]

Men Pelopor is now call Satuan 2 Pelopor, Brimob Mabes Polri.

Oh... since when? last time i passed at Pelopor HQ in Jl. Putri Hijau Medan (about 5 month ago), their name is still Resimen Pelopor, and their uniform like common police officer (Sabhara or Samapta gitu...), not Brimob's uniform.

[nata4190]

Oh... since when? last time i passed at Pelopor HQ in Jl. Putri Hijau Medan (about 5 month ago), their name is still Resimen Pelopor, and their uniform like common police officer (Sabhara or Samapta gitu...), not Brimob's uniform.

What I was reffering to was the Resimen I Pelopor Brimob Mabes Polri which is now called Sat-2 Pelopor. If there are other police units designated as Pelopor then I am not aware of it.

[Jagi]

@Ominae,as written in Angkasa magazine,the PS-1 is still a working prototype based on a Pindad-made handgun called P2 if I'm not mistaken.As with other new products of Pindad other than SS-2,such as the SPR-2 and the SM-3 along with other varieties of combat arsenal,won't imidiately be replacing all of TNI's arsenal because most of the current ones are still very capable

@r0m8470,there was an ongoing discussion about the missiles that will be equipped to the Sukhois in some military forums.Rusky's badboys like Adder and Alamo will be the main consideration at this point,but what about Indonesia's own indigenous system?Well,we'll have to be patient and wait to see it for ourselves.....in a few decades (:D)

[Ominae]

Jagi

- Thanks. You know what year the SM-3s were made? If you know the other SPRs too, I don't mind that too.

[karbol]

@r0m8470,there was an ongoing discussion about the missiles that will be equipped to the Sukhois in some military forums.Rusky's badboys like Adder and Alamo will be the main consideration at this point,but what about Indonesia's own indigenous system?Well,we'll have to be patient and wait to see it for ourselves.....in a few decades (:D)

if no picture release by the airforces, we never know are the air forces already have those missile... and let keep it that way.

to compare it, according to Sipri TNI-AU bought AGM-65 since 1988. but we dont know the Air forces have the Maverick until late '90...

[karbol]

Throwing Away Usable Aircraft?
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/upload/news/090415_p02_throwing.jpg
A Hawk trainer jet
By Jung Sung-ki
Staff Reporter

The Air Force's plan to withdraw some of its fully serviceable trainer jets from use has been called into question. Critics say the ``early decommissioning'' of the 17-year-old U.K.-built Hawk Mk67 trainer, known locally as the T-59, will be a waste of taxpayers' money.

The Air Force bought 20 Hawk trainer aircraft between 1992 and 1993 to replace its aging T-33 trainers. Currently, the service operates 16 T-59s at an airbase in Yecheon, North Gyeongsang Province. It wants to decommission the fleet in 2012.

With consistent maintenance and overhauls, aircraft experts say, the trainers will be able to fly problem-free for at least 10 more years, given the aircraft's normal lifespan of 30 years. The per-unit price is $18 million.

The plan is in stark contrast to the service's continued operation of F-4 and F-5 fighter jets introduced about 40 years ago.

A senior Air Force official told The Korea Times the decision was made last October as part of plans to inaugurate a ``tactical air control command'' by 2012 when South Korea takes over wartime operational control of its forces from the U.S. military.

The service subsequently drew up an ``Air Force tactical aircraft management plan,'' he said. Under the plan, the Air Force will replace all T-59s with KA-1 forward air control planes by 2012, after building more KA-1s, due to difficulties obtaining spare parts for the former _ namely integrated logistics support (ILS) problems. The KA-1 is an armed variant of the KT-1 Woongbi basic trainer developed by Korea Aerospace Industries and the state-funded Agency for Defense Development.

But defense experts and some Air Force officials rebut the claim.

``India, South Africa and some other countries are still producing Hawk trainer jets under licensing agreements, so South Korea could obtain needed spare parts quite easily and operate the aircraft for about 20 more years,'' an analyst at a state-funded defense research institute said, requesting to remain anonymous.

The researcher also cited the solid maintenance and overhaul centers in Yecheon and an airbase in Seosan, South Chungcheong Province, which have given the T-59s an operational rate of around 80 percent.

``I've been told that the Air Force may offer T-59s for free to some Southeast Asian nations, including Indonesia, for future arms deals with the countries concerned,'' he noted. ``It seems quite unreasonable, however, because those nations could, otherwise, be potential customers for South Korean-made trainer jets.''

A retired Air Force general recommended that the Air Force use T-59s as light attack jets after equipping them with required weapons systems. Then the T-59 fleet should be relocated to Wonju, some 140 kilometers east of Seoul in the region of Gangwon Province, for air-to-ground/forward air control missions, he said. Forward air control aircraft conduct operations on the frontline mainly to monitor and detect enemy movements in the event of war.

``If T-59s are relocated to Wonju, they could be projected to the country's western region faster and more effectively to deter aggression by North Korean special forces by sea,'' he said. ``Once fitted with night vision equipment, they would be also able to carry out nighttime missions.''

The T-59 has a bigger weapons carrying capacity than the KA-1, and it's much faster than the turboprop plane, he added.

The Hawk trainer jet, which can carry about two tons of weapons systems, is known to be capable of conducting F16-level missions at low-altitudes, including close air support and counter-air-defense. Its armament includes a 30mm anti-tank cannon, AIM-9M Sidewinder air-to-air missiles, Mk87 free-fall bombs and rocket pods. In comparison, the KA-1 can carry only 14 ground attack rockets.

Earlier this year, the Ministry of National Defense unveiled plans to move a fleet of 12 KA-1 aircraft based in Seongnam, Gyeonggi Province, to Wonju, in line with the government's plan to build a high-rise amusement park near the Seongnam area.

It is also designed to help fill the operational gap from the recent pullout of a U.S. Apache attack helicopter battalion from the Korean Peninsula.

The KA-1's main mission is to help prevent North Korean special forces with some 150 air-cushion landing craft from infiltrating Incheon and other western regions in the South by sea.

gallantjung@koreatimes.co.kr


link: http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2009/04/205_43236.html

[Jagi]

@Ominae

I don't really know when exactly were the SM-3 and the SPR-2 developed,correct me if I'm wrong but they both made their first appearance in Indodefence Expo in 2006 along with SS-2 and PM-2. The SPR-2 itself is a 50.cal anti-material sniper rifle which has a similar form with the Israeli's Black Eagle though its designers said that they incorporated and study various forms of anti-materials to develop the SPR-2. The SPR-1 is a 7.62mm bolt action said to be developed from Remington 700,I think this one has been around for quite some time,while the 7.62mm semi-automatic sniper rifle SPR-3 is a newly developed one,there isn't much info about this piece but the design is very similar to that of an SPR-2

[Jagi]

@karbol

If what the article said about those Hawk Mk.67s being given to Indonesia for free is true then I hope that the gov't would make a thorough consideration before making the decision,whether it is to accept or to reject the S.Koreans offer:D:D:D

[Aghost]

Hope this is not news crap, coz if it's true the Airforce didn't have to think twice to agree this proposal, furthermore they will retire aging hawk Mk 53 this year and still looking for the proper replacement aircraft considering the limited budget. The similar type aircraft will economize the operating cost and didn't have to train the pilot due to they already familiar with the previous one. I am strongly recommend this offer.

Old Hawk Mk 53 TNI AU
http://adiewicaksono.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/hawk-100.jpg?w=574&h=382

[Jagi]

@Aghost

But then again,how old were our Hawks cause Koreans Mk.67 is pretty old too you know,17 years....whew