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aswp01
12-21-2007, 10:25 PM
Great pics!

The sun glasses are Rudy Projects. Their shop in Jakarta said that some unit from KOSTRAD bought them in unknown quantities. Great but expensive stuff!

I saw some pics of KOSTRAD Raiders troopers wearing the black vest while in Indonesia. I am not sure if it is unique just to KOSTRAD or for this assignment. But the trend now for the Indonesian armed forces is every unit is in competition to equipped themselves with different uniforms or equipments. Apart from the SS-1/2, almost nothing is 'standard' anymore here......:) :)

Kopassus
12-21-2007, 11:33 PM
Thanks for the pictures!
Our newest Flanker: the Su-27MK(?!)
http://85.17.151.16/154650001-154700000/154673201-154673300/154673281_5_GqyQ.jpeg

Kopassus
12-21-2007, 11:44 PM
Now some serious stuff, some days ago i made some pictures of some TNI-AD toys, including the FH-2000! Sy belum perna lihat foto2 dari FH-2000 di internet, apalagi 'in real life' dari dekat. Mudah-mudahan foto2 sy memang yg pertama...muhahaaa. I also made some close-up pictures of the FH-2000, but this is our newest field houwitzer, so its a little bit sensitive. One of the soldiers also asked me to make only pictures of the AMX-13 and AMX-VCI. Jadi... sy hanya pasang foto2 ini saja.

http://85.17.151.122/154650001-154700000/154673601-154673700/154673679_5__GRW.jpeg

http://85.17.151.122/154650001-154700000/154673601-154673700/154673678_5_OTXt.jpeg

http://85.17.151.168/154650001-154700000/154673601-154673700/154673639_5_ksYr.jpeg

http://85.17.151.168/154650001-154700000/154673601-154673700/154673640_5_AzJ0.jpeg

Kopassus
12-21-2007, 11:46 PM
http://85.17.151.168/154650001-154700000/154673601-154673700/154673638_5_yzYw.jpeg

http://85.17.151.168/154650001-154700000/154673601-154673700/154673637_5_pa0A.jpeg

Tempest
12-22-2007, 12:28 AM
Now some serious stuff, some days ago i made some pictures of some TNI-AD toys, including the FH-2000! Sy belum perna lihat foto2 dari FH-2000 di internet, apalagi 'in real life' dari dekat. Mudah-mudahan foto2 sy memang yg pertama...muhahaaa. I also made some close-up pictures of the FH-2000, but this is our newest field houwitzer, so its a little bit sensitive. One of the soldiers also asked me to make only pictures of the AMX-13 and AMX-VCI. Jadi... sy hanya pasang foto2 ini saja.

http://85.17.151.122/154650001-154700000/154673601-154673700/154673678_5_OTXt.jpeg



Are the howitzers and light tanks from the same unit? Btw where was this taken?

karbol
12-23-2007, 10:40 PM
great pics kopassus. thx... this time u'r the first..hehehe:)

karbol
12-26-2007, 10:48 PM
thx to original uploader: copraldjono@kaskus.us

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/ANGKATAN%20DARAT/pdvd_022.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/ANGKATAN%20DARAT/RBS702.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/ANGKATAN%20DARAT/RBS701.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/ANGKATAN%20DARAT/pdvd_036.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/ANGKATAN%20DARAT/pdvd_004.jpg

Kopassus
12-27-2007, 10:05 AM
Are the howitzers and light tanks from the same unit? Btw where was this taken?
First question:dont know.
Second: Jawa Barat

Kopassus
12-27-2007, 10:07 AM
thx to original uploader: copraldjono@kaskus.us

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/ANGKATAN%20DARAT/pdvd_022.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/ANGKATAN%20DARAT/RBS702.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/ANGKATAN%20DARAT/RBS701.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/ANGKATAN%20DARAT/pdvd_036.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/ANGKATAN%20DARAT/pdvd_004.jpg
Rudal apa ini? Foto 2 dan 3 seperti RBS70....

Java Jongen
12-29-2007, 04:15 AM
missiles launcher in the last pic, look like javelin ATGM, but it's not, what is that?

samourai
12-29-2007, 04:49 AM
last picture for me it is LRAC 89 rocket antitank short range the diameter of the javelin is bigger and the sight are not the same.
I'm surprise because I don't know indonesian forces use this rocket launcher.

DavidDCM
12-29-2007, 08:02 AM
Yepp, top and bottom pics show LRAC 89 anti-tank launcher, pic 2 & 3 show RBS-70 SAM and pic 4 shows the C-90 CR disposable anti-tank launcher.

--------------

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3392/rantisindo02dx5.jpg
Another Indonesian 4x4, don't know the name...
Edit/ I just see that the vehicle plate says "Rantis Prototype", so I guess now I know it's name :D

jackehammond
12-30-2007, 01:26 AM
last picture for me it is LRAC 89 rocket antitank short range the diameter of the javelin is bigger and the sight are not the same.
I'm surprise because I don't know indonesian forces use this rocket launcher.

Dear Member,

I didn't either. I did an article on the LRAC 89 back in the 1980s and I was told it was the second most used crew served light antitank weapon after the Carl Gustav. But the French don't talk about who they supply it to. It was designed to replace the Korean War US designed 3.5 inch Super Bazooka. Solved a lot of problems that the Super Bazooka had (ie having to unpack the rocket and load it). A lot of features were copied from the LRAC 89 by other arms designers -- eg the Israeli B-300. Also the LRAC 89 antitank round has an extremely high penetration for an 89mm HEAT projectile. Lucharie also offers an anti-personnel round that is similar to a claymore mine in effect packed with steel ball bearings.

Finally, the photo before the LRAC 89 is of a Spanish individual light antitank rocket.

Jack E. Hammond

PS> From some of the messages I have read it seems that the Indonesians and Dutch have at last got over the 1945-49 War. Many thought that would never happen as it was such a bitter war on par with the Spanish Civil War of 1936.


.

jackehammond
12-30-2007, 01:31 AM
Folks,

Does anyone have the history of Indonesia and the Rapier. Did they acquire them new or from Singapore or Australia?

Jack E. Hammond

.

aswp01
12-30-2007, 07:19 AM
[quote=jackehammond;2954203]Dear Member,

I didn't either. I did an article on the LRAC 89 back in the 1980s and I was told it was the second most used crew served light antitank weapon after the Carl Gustav. But the French don't talk about who they supply it to. It was designed to replace the Korean War US designed 3.5 inch Super Bazooka. Solved a lot of problems that the Super Bazooka had (ie having to unpack the rocket and load it). A lot of features were copied from the LRAC 89 by other arms designers -- eg the Israeli B-300. Also the LRAC 89 antitank round has an extremely high penetration for an 89mm HEAT projectile. Lucharie also offers an anti-personnel round that is similar to a claymore mine in effect packed with steel ball bearings.

Finally, the photo before the LRAC 89 is of a Spanish individual light antitank rocket.

Jack E. Hammond

Indonesia acquired the LRAC 89 back in the 1980's (I think). I knew this from my father who was an army officer working in the Army Procurement Dept. French even has 'permanent' reps for their defence industry back then - that's how I got MILAN and HOT posters (didn't even realized what was it then).

As far as I can remember, Indonesia was a good customer with the French. I still have a catalogue from French's SATORY (kind of Defence industry show) from back then. And you're right, there's LRAC 89.

Speaking of history it was rather funny for me that French and British at some point tried (and still is) to sell as many as possible their arms products to us at the same time. The British even held a special 'promotion' day where they show: Range Rovers (new at that time), Rapier and Sterling sub-machine guns.

As far as I know, Indonesian Rapier came brand new. But I maybe wrong.

flanker7
12-30-2007, 01:30 PM
Greek SF also use the LRAC-89 (or Strim) as squad level AT

r0m8470
12-30-2007, 11:03 PM
The Rapiers were new. The purchase was made in early to mid 80's. According to IISS-published Military Balance 1985-1986 edition, Indonesia purchased 51 launchers. The main purpose of the purchase was to safeguard 'critical national installations' such as gas fields at Bontang and Arun and oil refinery at Dumai. Back then - that line of reasoning might be relevant considering that PGM proliferation was at infancy.

I'll go check in the local library next weekend for the latest ed of Military Balance - the Rapier should still be listed on the inventory even though their usability might be dubious at best since their shelf life should be expired by now.

By the way - does anybody know about any of the recent 'arms purchase plans' such as Fincantieri-aided national corvette, Russian-designed-Spain-built OPV, Kilo class, Sukhoi addition and BMP-3 purchase?

There are so many news flying around about them on message boards and some Indonesian national newspapers but they are really much ado about nothing.

The $1B Russian credit line has so far been unused since there has been no bank (or banks) willing to secure the funds. Kilo class purchase is in limbo - the new navy chief does not seem to be very keen in getting the new subs. The Sukhoi purchase that has been trumpeted is nothing more than an Mou - not a purchase contract.

I'm a global commodity manager for a Fortune 500 company so I know a thing or two about the difference of MoU and firm purchase order. MoU does not mean squat if there is no purchase order or contract - and as far as I know - there has been no FIRM purchase. Same thing with Italian corvette and Russo-Spanish OPV.

Anybody hear anything different - please share it on the board.

karbol
12-31-2007, 06:58 AM
:cantbeli:..... thx for the correction flanker...

r0m8470
12-31-2007, 10:51 AM
Taken from Kompas newspaper - another example of BS and erroneous reporting:

<< start >>

Senjata Sukhoi Sudah Tiba di Makassar



JAKARTA, SENIN-Kepala Staf TNI Angkatan Udara (KSAU) Marsekal Madya (Marsdya) Subandrio mengatakan empat pesawat Sukhoi TNI Angkatan Udara (AU) siap untuk dipersenjatai.
"Seluruh senjata yang kita pesan untuk melengkapi Sukhoi sudah datang sepekan silam dan kini telah berada di Skadron Sukhoi di Makassar," katanya di sela-sela upacara serah terima jabatan Kepala Staf Angkatan Darat (KSAD) di Jakarta, Senin (31/12).


* short summary: According to the Air Force chief of staff Subandrio - the Sukhois are ready to be armed. The ordered ordnance have arrived at Makasar airbase.

One notable omission though: what are they - iron bomb, R-73, rocket pods, R-77, PGM?



Ia menambahkan, seluruh persenjataan yang baru datang tersebut belum akan di coba, namun masih perlu dilihat seluruh kelengkapannya.
Empat pesawat tempur buatan Rusia yang dibeli TNI AU pada 2003 itu dijuluki Flanker yakni jenis Sukhoi Su-27 SK Upgrade dengan sepasang mesin masing-masing berdaya dorong 12.550 kg jenis Lyulka AL-31F. Kelebihan pesawat tempur jenis ini juga terlihat dari kelengkapan IRST/Infra Red Search and Track berupa bola kaca di depan kokpit, yang mampu mengendus sasaran sejauh 70 km, sebuah kelengkapan yang tidak dipunyai pesawat keluaran barat.
Menengok persenjataan yang mampu diusung, juga tak kalah hebat semisal rudal udara AA-12 Adder yang mampu menjelajah sejauh 50 km (melebihi AMRAAM yang hanya 40 km) atau pun rudal udara jenis R-73 yang mampu menembak pada sasaran ke arah samping hingga sudut 70 derajat.
Untuk sasaran darat pesawat Sukhoi dapat dilengkapi dengan rudal H-31P berjarak jangkau 100 km atau rudal antikapal jenis H-31A berjarak jangkau 50 km, bandingkan dengan Maverick yang hanya mencapai 15 km. Dengan bahan bakar yang mampu dibawa seberat 6.000 kg pesawat ini mampu mengadakan patroli sejauh 1.500 kilometer dari pangkalan tolak atau terbang selama empat jam.


* more summary: this is a bunch of gibberish - there is no substantial news there. Yes we know that Flankers can carry R-77, yes Archer is better than Niner Limas, and yes Kh-31 is a supersonic capable missiles. Are they included on the ordnance package - no mention about it there.




Seluruh persenjataan itu merupakan senjata udara paling mematikan saat ini, lebih andal dari rudal keluaran Israel jenis Python atau AIM-9L/M Sidewinder yang biasa dipakai negara Barat. Beberapa senjata yang kini mulai ditempelkan di tubuh keempat Sukhoi milik TNI AU antara lain rudal cannon, roket dan misil.(ANT/NIK)

* more notes: This is the sorriest part of the story. The last sentence roughly said 'Some of the weapons that have been equipped on these four Sukhois are cannon missiles (what the hell was that - anybody please enlighten me), rocket and missile.

<< end >>


Cannon missiles - good grief - how do you say clueless in indonesian? I hope that this term (rudal cannon) comes from the reporter, not from the chief of staff ..... If it does come from the chief of staff - God helps the air force!

aswp01
12-31-2007, 12:39 PM
Taken from Kompas newspaper - another example of BS and erroneous reporting:

<< start >>

Senjata Sukhoi Sudah Tiba di Makassar



JAKARTA, SENIN-Kepala Staf TNI Angkatan Udara (KSAU) Marsekal Madya (Marsdya) Subandrio mengatakan empat pesawat Sukhoi TNI Angkatan Udara (AU) siap untuk dipersenjatai.
"Seluruh senjata yang kita pesan untuk melengkapi Sukhoi sudah datang sepekan silam dan kini telah berada di Skadron Sukhoi di Makassar," katanya di sela-sela upacara serah terima jabatan Kepala Staf Angkatan Darat (KSAD) di Jakarta, Senin (31/12).


* short summary: According to the Air Force chief of staff Subandrio - the Sukhois are ready to be armed. The ordered ordnance have arrived at Makasar airbase.

One notable omission though: what are they - iron bomb, R-73, rocket pods, R-77, PGM?



Ia menambahkan, seluruh persenjataan yang baru datang tersebut belum akan di coba, namun masih perlu dilihat seluruh kelengkapannya.
Empat pesawat tempur buatan Rusia yang dibeli TNI AU pada 2003 itu dijuluki Flanker yakni jenis Sukhoi Su-27 SK Upgrade dengan sepasang mesin masing-masing berdaya dorong 12.550 kg jenis Lyulka AL-31F. Kelebihan pesawat tempur jenis ini juga terlihat dari kelengkapan IRST/Infra Red Search and Track berupa bola kaca di depan kokpit, yang mampu mengendus sasaran sejauh 70 km, sebuah kelengkapan yang tidak dipunyai pesawat keluaran barat.
Menengok persenjataan yang mampu diusung, juga tak kalah hebat semisal rudal udara AA-12 Adder yang mampu menjelajah sejauh 50 km (melebihi AMRAAM yang hanya 40 km) atau pun rudal udara jenis R-73 yang mampu menembak pada sasaran ke arah samping hingga sudut 70 derajat.
Untuk sasaran darat pesawat Sukhoi dapat dilengkapi dengan rudal H-31P berjarak jangkau 100 km atau rudal antikapal jenis H-31A berjarak jangkau 50 km, bandingkan dengan Maverick yang hanya mencapai 15 km. Dengan bahan bakar yang mampu dibawa seberat 6.000 kg pesawat ini mampu mengadakan patroli sejauh 1.500 kilometer dari pangkalan tolak atau terbang selama empat jam.


* more summary: this is a bunch of gibberish - there is no substantial news there. Yes we know that Flankers can carry R-77, yes Archer is better than Niner Limas, and yes Kh-31 is a supersonic capable missiles. Are they included on the ordnance package - no mention about it there.




Seluruh persenjataan itu merupakan senjata udara paling mematikan saat ini, lebih andal dari rudal keluaran Israel jenis Python atau AIM-9L/M Sidewinder yang biasa dipakai negara Barat. Beberapa senjata yang kini mulai ditempelkan di tubuh keempat Sukhoi milik TNI AU antara lain rudal cannon, roket dan misil.(ANT/NIK)

* more notes: This is the sorriest part of the story. The last sentence roughly said 'Some of the weapons that have been equipped on these four Sukhois are cannon missiles (what the hell was that - anybody please enlighten me), rocket and missile.

<< end >>


Cannon missiles - good grief - how do you say clueless in indonesian? I hope that this term (rudal cannon) comes from the reporter, not from the chief of staff ..... If it does come from the chief of staff - God helps the air force!

The code at the end of the story explains that the source of the story is from ANTARA Indonesian State News Agency. As the new suggest, being the 'state owned' News Agency means they often have better access to Military leaderships than most media in Indonesia.

Unfortunately ANTARA (like other general news agency) often have to rely on correspondences or journalists with little understanding or knowledges regarding specific fields (military technology). As such these journalists tend to confuse details and the fact that the editors themselves offer very little help, will just add to more confusions.

This sort of report is not unusual in Indonesia. Still, sometimes they do offer some kind of hints of what actually happened. In this case, with a pinch of salt, if I may say very probable that indeed some sorts of weapons for the Flankers did arrived.

Whether the weapons are indeed the AA-12 Adder or anything sort only time will tell. General aviation enthusiasts in Indonesia didn't even aware that TNI-AU owns AGM-65 Maverick until pictures of the missiles were published in ANGKASA magazine in the late 90's.

Generally like most armed forces, TNI-AU like to keep some secrets for themselves. It was only recently it was admitted the A-4 Skyhawks operated by TNI-AU in 80's till recently was actually came from Israel. Even the crews were trained in Israel. So the possibilities are wide open. But until there's a published pictures showing the real weaponries, we won't know for sure what sort of weapons acquired.

Just my two cents.

Tunasa
12-31-2007, 04:33 PM
Well it is a mixed between poor journalism and incompetence in the higher ups of the Indonesian Armed Forces. Like Aswp said, nobody knows or sure what did arrive and what did not. I didn't even realise that the 4 Su-27/30 came without "armament" until months after the news.

r0m8470
12-31-2007, 07:29 PM
Aswp - good perspective there on the news source and maybe there is some intention of keeping secrets. I remember the most recent one - KRI Diponegoro OPV arrived with no MM-40, just the box launchers! I did spot pictures of the second vessel - with a single launch tube! Maybe the export license is finally secured .....

Check this out:
http://kr.blog.yahoo.com/shinecommerce/15044.html?p=1&pm=l&tc=82&tt=1198321602

it's in Hangul (??) but an MM40 launch tube is clearly visible.

Regarding the A-4 though, it's not hard to confidently guess that they were from IDF/AF stock. Back when they arrived during early 80's, the official news source always mentioned that they were bought from a 'middle eastern country'. There were only 2 'middle eastern countries' operating Scooters back then - Kuwait (KU model) and Israel (E, F, M and N) - and TNI's were the E-model. Plus the clincher - the extended tailpipe.

Kopassus
01-02-2008, 10:17 AM
Taken from Kompas newspaper - another example of BS and erroneous reporting:

<< start >>

Senjata Sukhoi Sudah Tiba di Makassar



JAKARTA, SENIN-Kepala Staf TNI Angkatan Udara (KSAU) Marsekal Madya (Marsdya) Subandrio mengatakan empat pesawat Sukhoi TNI Angkatan Udara (AU) siap untuk dipersenjatai.
"Seluruh senjata yang kita pesan untuk melengkapi Sukhoi sudah datang sepekan silam dan kini telah berada di Skadron Sukhoi di Makassar," katanya di sela-sela upacara serah terima jabatan Kepala Staf Angkatan Darat (KSAD) di Jakarta, Senin (31/12).


* short summary: According to the Air Force chief of staff Subandrio - the Sukhois are ready to be armed. The ordered ordnance have arrived at Makasar airbase.

One notable omission though: what are they - iron bomb, R-73, rocket pods, R-77, PGM?



Ia menambahkan, seluruh persenjataan yang baru datang tersebut belum akan di coba, namun masih perlu dilihat seluruh kelengkapannya.
Empat pesawat tempur buatan Rusia yang dibeli TNI AU pada 2003 itu dijuluki Flanker yakni jenis Sukhoi Su-27 SK Upgrade dengan sepasang mesin masing-masing berdaya dorong 12.550 kg jenis Lyulka AL-31F. Kelebihan pesawat tempur jenis ini juga terlihat dari kelengkapan IRST/Infra Red Search and Track berupa bola kaca di depan kokpit, yang mampu mengendus sasaran sejauh 70 km, sebuah kelengkapan yang tidak dipunyai pesawat keluaran barat.
Menengok persenjataan yang mampu diusung, juga tak kalah hebat semisal rudal udara AA-12 Adder yang mampu menjelajah sejauh 50 km (melebihi AMRAAM yang hanya 40 km) atau pun rudal udara jenis R-73 yang mampu menembak pada sasaran ke arah samping hingga sudut 70 derajat.
Untuk sasaran darat pesawat Sukhoi dapat dilengkapi dengan rudal H-31P berjarak jangkau 100 km atau rudal antikapal jenis H-31A berjarak jangkau 50 km, bandingkan dengan Maverick yang hanya mencapai 15 km. Dengan bahan bakar yang mampu dibawa seberat 6.000 kg pesawat ini mampu mengadakan patroli sejauh 1.500 kilometer dari pangkalan tolak atau terbang selama empat jam.


* more summary: this is a bunch of gibberish - there is no substantial news there. Yes we know that Flankers can carry R-77, yes Archer is better than Niner Limas, and yes Kh-31 is a supersonic capable missiles. Are they included on the ordnance package - no mention about it there.




Seluruh persenjataan itu merupakan senjata udara paling mematikan saat ini, lebih andal dari rudal keluaran Israel jenis Python atau AIM-9L/M Sidewinder yang biasa dipakai negara Barat. Beberapa senjata yang kini mulai ditempelkan di tubuh keempat Sukhoi milik TNI AU antara lain rudal cannon, roket dan misil.(ANT/NIK)

* more notes: This is the sorriest part of the story. The last sentence roughly said 'Some of the weapons that have been equipped on these four Sukhois are cannon missiles (what the hell was that - anybody please enlighten me), rocket and missile.

<< end >>


Cannon missiles - good grief - how do you say clueless in indonesian? I hope that this term (rudal cannon) comes from the reporter, not from the chief of staff ..... If it does come from the chief of staff - God helps the air force!


I have seen the term rudal cannon before. Indeed, not every journalist/reporter is a smart boy/girl. They often copy (part of) other articles without further investigation. And our reporters have the kebiasaan to ad unnecessary information. Maybe they get paid for every sentence thy write.

Kopassus
01-02-2008, 10:21 AM
The Rapiers were new. The purchase was made in early to mid 80's. According to IISS-published Military Balance 1985-1986 edition, Indonesia purchased 51 launchers. The main purpose of the purchase was to safeguard 'critical national installations' such as gas fields at Bontang and Arun and oil refinery at Dumai. Back then - that line of reasoning might be relevant considering that PGM proliferation was at infancy.

I'll go check in the local library next weekend for the latest ed of Military Balance - the Rapier should still be listed on the inventory even though their usability might be dubious at best since their shelf life should be expired by now.

By the way - does anybody know about any of the recent 'arms purchase plans' such as Fincantieri-aided national corvette, Russian-designed-Spain-built OPV, Kilo class, Sukhoi addition and BMP-3 purchase?

There are so many news flying around about them on message boards and some Indonesian national newspapers but they are really much ado about nothing.

The $1B Russian credit line has so far been unused since there has been no bank (or banks) willing to secure the funds. Kilo class purchase is in limbo - the new navy chief does not seem to be very keen in getting the new subs. The Sukhoi purchase that has been trumpeted is nothing more than an Mou - not a purchase contract.

I'm a global commodity manager for a Fortune 500 company so I know a thing or two about the difference of MoU and firm purchase order. MoU does not mean squat if there is no purchase order or contract - and as far as I know - there has been no FIRM purchase. Same thing with Italian corvette and Russo-Spanish OPV.

Anybody hear anything different - please share it on the board.

The only good news that i have read in a majalah is that TNI-AD is now testing the ZUR23-2KG (last month)

Eokboy
01-02-2008, 11:35 AM
This disconnect between the media and the military happens here too. Its either lefty military loathing journo people or just writing crap as long as the job gets done.

r0m8470
01-02-2008, 08:37 PM
Hey people - here's the news that I picked up from Indo-Pos newspapers:

http://www.indopos.co.id/index.php?act=detail_c&id=319748

The weapons are R-27 medium range AAM, S-80 80mm unguided rockets, ordnance racks and 30mm cannon rounds. I would venture out to say that there would be some R-73 AAM included - kinda hard to fathom that TNI would omit that. This looks like the same set of ordnance that PLA AF got with their first batch of Flankers.

Here's another interesting (I'd say very interesting) information - just ran into it this morning:

http://gallery.indoflyer.net/view.asp?id=3069

Check it out - it shows an SU-30MK taking off carrying 6 mk82-class practice (or live?) bombs on NATO-style TER. I thought Flankers FCS are designed for Russian FAB-class bombs and their associated ballistic settings? I wonder if TNI made some changes on the FCS?

On the same site - if you perform a search for pictures made by Titis Budi Rahman - you'll note the same aircraft with the TER empty.

Also - whoever Titis is - he/she is a very talented shutterbug!

karbol
01-03-2008, 12:07 AM
^^thx for the pics r0m8470... i think the bomb is MK-82. i've heard the TNI-AU technician had made some modification to armed the sukhoi. this is what i like with TNI technician... they are so creative. not only for sukhoi, but also with our tanks and warship...

equilibrium37
01-04-2008, 02:19 PM
^^thx for the pics r0m8470... i think the bomb is MK-82. i've heard the TNI-AU technician had made some modification to armed the sukhoi. this is what i like with TNI technician... they are so creative. not only for sukhoi, but also with our tanks and warship...

Yes ive read about that from Kompas. But its sad how these amazing Intreceptors are only armed with 'dumb' bombs for god knows how long. Just my two cents.

karbol
01-07-2008, 06:52 AM
few pics of indonesia armour... credit goes to copraldjono@kaskus.us

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/ANGKATAN%20DARAT/pdvd_024.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/ANGKATAN%20DARAT/pdvd_008.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/ANGKATAN%20DARAT/pdvd_023.jpg

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/ANGKATAN%20DARAT/pdvd_028.jpg

saladin...
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/ANGKATAN%20DARAT/pdvd_006.jpg

CreepingDeath
01-11-2008, 11:05 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/AP/more/and%20more/02b4d8ea.jpg

Office employees ditching work? lolrofl

hawkeye88
01-20-2008, 02:12 AM
A Debate between Indonesian and Singapore VS (The Damned Pirated Country):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYHZ_WRhVGE#vg4mNAfw7I4

Enjoy, guys...

DavidDCM
01-20-2008, 07:52 AM
Matrix soundtrack. :D

Besides, no nationalistic flaming in this part of the forum. I reported your post to the mods.

---------

I read that Indonesia has purchased 420 Singaporean Terrex APC's. Which vehicles will these Terrex' replace, and when are deliveries going to start? I mean there are plenty of potential candidates to be replaces. I couldn't find any English sources for this, only Indonesian.

----

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1269/vabindonesia01vd9.jpg

Indonesian VAB

aswp01
01-22-2008, 09:54 AM
420 Terrex APC from Singapore? Hmmm that's strange as what I can found newspapers here are report of almost similar numbers of APC (500 I think?) from PINDAD.

This deal is really crazy as the order was written in the specification pages by the Vice President. Story was, the VP saw a presentation or some sort by PINDAD, he liked the product and next thing anybody knew - he asked for any piece of paper. What's available was the specs and that's it.

No wonder (former) President Wahid said that the leaders of this country are all crazy. :)

Kopassus
01-24-2008, 09:01 AM
Makasih Karbol! Ini pertama kali u sy, sy lihat foto yg begitu jelas dari KRI Hajar Dewantara(364). We need also something like the Formidable Class of Singapura.

501st_airborne
01-27-2008, 06:26 AM
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j152/kudaliar/frontcover.gif

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j152/kudaliar/backcover.gif



-e-book links-

---http://**********.com/files/84461476/Kopassus_ch_1-11.rar

---http://**********.com/files/86133984/Kopassus_ch_12-20.rar

DavidDCM
01-31-2008, 05:46 AM
Corvette KRI Nala (363) firing a missile

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/7096/uji20coba20rudal2020banef9.jpg
HiRes (http://www.tnial.mil.id/Portals/0/GambarArtikel/Uji%20Coba%20Rudal%20(%20Banten%20).jpg)

Tunasa
01-31-2008, 01:07 PM
That is a anti sub mortar, isn't it?

jackehammond
01-31-2008, 10:23 PM
That is a anti sub mortar, isn't it?

Dear Member,

Actually an unguided depth charge rocket by what use to be called BOFORS in Sweden.

Jack E. Hammond

.

DavidDCM
02-01-2008, 05:48 AM
Those are 57 mm-Bofors SAK turrets.

---

http://www.cvl.iis.u-tokyo.ac.jp/~kazmi/images/mandau.jpg
621 KRI Mandau

karbol
02-04-2008, 03:57 AM
:-(:-(:-(

Six marines drown as amphibious tank sinks
An aging amphibious tank sank in stormy seas during a military training exercise in Situbondo, East Java, killing at least six marines and leaving one missing, a navy spokesman said Sunday.
The accident occurred in the Java Sea on Saturday, the final day of a week-long naval exercise involving dozens of Russian-made amphibious tanks, submarines and warships, Rear Adm. Iskandar Sitompul said.
The 45-year-old 14-ton assault tank sunk in three-meter-high waves off Java's east coast.
"The crew could not control the tank in the high waves and strong current," Sitompul said Sunday as quoted by AP after the arrival of the six marines' bodies at the Jakarta air force base for a military ceremony.
One other marine was missing and nine others survived, escaping through the exit hatch when the tank capsized, he said.
The vehicle was a BTR 50 P amphibious tank, produced in Russia in 1962. It was used at the 27th naval exercise together with 28 warships, nine airplanes, 13 amphibious tanks and 25 other BTR 50 P tanks.
More than 3,750 marine personnel took part at the exercise.
The six victims were confirmed as First Pvt. Agus Triyanto, Chief Pvt. Dwiniar Triyanto, Second Corporal Hariyadi, Second Corporal Nugirojo Pamungkas, Second Corporal Sri Heri and First Sgt. Hadi Sutrisno, Detik.com said. -- JP

aneep
02-04-2008, 09:52 PM
RIP
those amphibious APCs need to be replaced soon, they are bloody old (and slow during water transit)

-aneep-

karbol
02-04-2008, 11:45 PM
^^thx aneep. after this sad accident, the government finally realize, the TNI need brand new equipment. so sad it have took many live's first...

SBY orders replacement of aging TNI war machines
Adianto P. Simamora, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono on Monday ordered the Indonesian Military (TNI) to ground its aging warfare equipment and procure new arms through local financing.
"We have decided to ground aging defense equipment. I will hand down sanctions on TNI leaders who ignore the order," Yudhoyono told reporters after a limited cabinet meeting on defense.
The president's statement came after a 46-year-old amphibious tank sunk during a military drill in waters off the East Java town of Situbondo on Saturday, killing seven marines.
The accident came just over one month after an old Nomad plane belonging to the Navy crashed in waters off Sabang in Aceh, leaving four crew members dead and another missing.
The meeting, held at the Defense Ministry, was attended by Vice President Jusuf Kalla, Defense Minister Juwono Sudarsono, Coordinating Minister for the Economy Boediono, Finance Minister Sri Mulyani Indrawati and TNI Chief Gen. Djoko Santoso, among others.
The President said he had issued an order to military leaders to phase out aging defense equipment long before Saturday's accident.
He said much of the country's defense equipment, including Hercules C-130 and amphibious tanks, were produced in 1960s, making them too old to help defend national sovereignty.
Director General of Defense Facilities Slamet Prihatino earlier said the TNI was still operating tanks and artillery canons produced in the late 1950s, and using aircraft that had exceeded flying hours, due to a small budget allocated to modernizing defense equipment.
The President said the government would buy replacements for the old equipment using local financing rather than credit export.
The Defense Ministry's shopping list this year includes four Russian-made Sukhoi jet fighters.
The ill-fated amphibious tank that sank Saturday was among dozens of Russian-made amphibious tanks, submarines and warships taking part in the naval exercise. A Search and Rescue team found Monday the body of chief Sgt. Suryanto, who went missing after the accident.
Yudhoyono also expressed his optimism the government would meet the deadline to resolve the long-debated military business problems next year.
He said the team set up to examine military businesses was still formulating criteria for the businesses that could be kept by and taken away from the military.
"We, of course, have to determine businesses suitable for the military. A cooperative is one of the businesses that fits the military," he said.
The government has said only military business institutions with assets amounting to US$50,000 or higher will be handed over to the government.
Home Minister Juwono earlier said only six businesses could be classified as profit-oriented military business from among the 1,500 firms which had previously been identified as military businesses.
The minister said the Defense Ministry and the TNI would still be allowed to maintain some cooperatives and foundations, as long as they were not profit-making entities.
The TNI has been involved in business since the late 1940s, but the practice expanded at the beginning of the New Order era in the early 1970s under former dictator Soeharto.
Almost 70 percent of the TNI's annual budget is derived from its diversified business activities.

r0m8470
02-05-2008, 01:08 AM
Does posting the picture of the deceased on the morque table really necessary?

It's a tragedy that these brave Marines died. I thought one last thing that we can do is to allow them some measure of dignity by not showing them in the state like the first 2 pictures above. These are real people, not CSI props.

I think the accident has gotten the message across to the country that the Marines are braving hazard every day by serving their country with obsolescent weapon systems - and yet they still served.

karbol
02-05-2008, 01:57 AM
Does posting the picture of the deceased on the morque table really necessary?

It's a tragedy that these brave Marines died. I thought one last thing that we can do is to allow them some measure of dignity by not showing them in the state like the first 2 pictures above. These are real people, not CSI props.

I think the accident has gotten the message across to the country that the Marines are braving hazard every day by serving their country with obsolescent weapon systems - and yet they still served.


is it really necessary?.. i dont know for sure. i hope you tell me. but thx for your kind attention. and if you like, i can edit the pics... i got this pic from marine public relation (dispen marinir)... and im assure you that i dont mean anything. i do respect the marine who dies. but maybe i show it in the wrong way... sorry..

iankingkong
02-05-2008, 02:01 AM
is it really necessary?.. i dont know for sure. i hope you tell me. but thx for your kind attention. and if you like, i can edit the pics... i got this pic from marine public relation (dispen marinir)... and im assure you that i dont mean anything. i do respect the marine who dies. but maybe i show it in the wrong way... sorry..

Yeah, I think that's disturbing. I would appreciate if you delete/edit it.
Makasih.

karbol
02-05-2008, 02:11 AM
^^siap!! i'ts already done!!

DavidDCM
02-05-2008, 04:24 AM
3 meter high waves! Even the EFV / AAAV, which will become the new amphibious tank for the US Marines in 2015 only has the specification to "negotiate 8 foot (2,44m) plunging surfes". It was just idiotic from the superiors to send out the Marines under such weather conditions. Such an accident could have happened with newer vehicles just as well.

But, from a more technocratic point of view, what do you think will the BTR-50's be replaced with? The Marines have relatively new BTR-80's, they could buy more of them to replace the BTR-50's. And what other vehicles are affected by the President's "prohibition"? Indonesia has lots of stuff that could be called "ageing". Saracen, Saladin, BTR-40, AMX-13, K-61, Ferret and probably a couple other vehicles should not be much younger than the BTR-50's.

Photo from back then when the BTR-50 was still new:
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2392/0003at5.png

aswp01
02-05-2008, 10:47 AM
3 meter high waves! Even the EFV / AAAV, which will become the new amphibious tank for the US Marines in 2015 only has the specification to "negotiate 8 foot (2,44m) plunging surfes". It was just idiotic from the superiors to send out the Marines under such weather conditions. Such an accident could have happened with newer vehicles just as well.

But, from a more technocratic point of view, what do you think will the BTR-50's be replaced with? The Marines have relatively new BTR-80's, they could buy more of them to replace the BTR-50's. And what other vehicles are affected by the President's "prohibition"? Indonesia has lots of stuff that could be called "ageing". Saracen, Saladin, BTR-40, AMX-13, K-61, Ferret and probably a couple other vehicles should not be much younger than the BTR-50's.

Photo from back then when the BTR-50 was still new:
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/2392/0003at5.png


A reality for almost every soldiers is that they have to perform what they have been ordered to in almost any conditions. In modern developed countries, this is balanced with the strong appreciation for the value of human lives.

For example, after the tragic accident of the Australian Navy helicopter in Nias (2005), there was a strong outcry from the public regarding the safety of the armed forces' equipments. A special commission was created and it was found that the Sea King helicopter was in bad condition due to its age (mainly). Soon after that the government quickly decided to replaced the Sea King with other helicopter.

The main point is the value of human lives is very important regardless they are doing some of the most dangerous occupations on earth.

But in developing countries, due to many factors, old equipments were forced to performed beyond their safe age. Is it safe for everyone involve? Definitely no. Do the soldiers have any other choice other than continue using them as they were ordered? No.

I came from military family, I know first hand how it feels to have a 'death knock' where you have a fully uniformed officer informing your family that some members of your family will never came back again.

But for most of our soldiers (and officers) they don't have much choice than to continue using whatever they have regardless of the risk. Personally I hope that soon (very soon), Indonesia could replace most of it's most obsolete equipments thus minimizing the risk for the brave soldiers.

A Singaporean friend told me once that from his perspectives Indonesian soldiers standard is very high (he was in in Armed forces too). He said that the standard for soldiers (special ops) in Indonesia is that they are still alive after selection and training. That's how tough it is (according to him).

Just my two cent.

My sympathy for those soldiers and their families.

DavidDCM
02-05-2008, 11:33 AM
Did I say anything contrary? Of course the Marines themselves had no choice but to obey. The General or whoever was in charge of the whole maneuvre should have known better.
But it's one of the oldest truisms of mankind that serious **** has to happen before people in high positions realize something needs to be changed.

--------

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1029/brimobpatrolidigebangredc3.jpg

aswp01
02-05-2008, 12:02 PM
Sorry, I was meaning to emphasize your point. You are totally right, soldiers have no other options than to obey their orders.

Back in 1980's a popular General M Jusuf (ABRI Commander at the time), was very concerned about the state of Indonesian armed forces, from the soldier's welfare to condition of the equipments. He did his very best to rectify the problems but unfortunately his tenure was cut short.

Some of his legacy, if my memory serves me right was new equipments like a number of AMX-10P, new standardized assault rifles, new warships etc. Indonesia has to wait for 20 years later for major procurement program like that.

He also re-trained 60 army batallions to become raiders qualified as well as pushing ABRI to conduct several major combined exercise. During his time, Indonesia also created the anti terror unit - Detachment 81. Above all, as commander his concerns is always about his soldiers from the quality of their foods to the state of their family housings.

DavidDCM
02-06-2008, 01:27 AM
@aswp01: I'm sorry, in that case I misread your post. My apologies :)

--

I only found this news article about Indonesia being interested in BMP-3F:



Indonesia interested in Russian BMP 3F amphibious tank

Jakarta (ANTARA News) - The government of Indonesia became interested in the Russian-built BMP 3F amphibious tank on display at Indo-Defence Expo 2006 at the Jakarta International Expo (JI Expo) in Kemayoran, Jakarta.

Chief delegate of Rosoboronexport General Nikolai M Dimidiuk spoke about the Indonesian interest after escorting journalists for a look of the Russian pavilion on Friday.

"Indonesia has been studying the Sukhoi jet fighter, non-nuclear submarines and BMP 3F amphibious tanks. They are priority products," Nikolai said in Russian, with Varaksin Vadin of the Russian company acting as interpreter.

On the occasion, Nikolai extensively touched on the versetility and superiority of BMP 3F amphibious tanks capable of making manuevers in the water, firing in the water, and able to move fast up-and-down steelp hills.

Another advantage is that the tank relatively not heavy and armed with 100 mm calibre and 30 mm calibre guns firing ordinary shells, guided and unguided missiles, and can stay afloat for seven hours.

"With regard to the BMP EF amphibious tanks, we offer a special service and rustproof paint, so that the vehicle remains strong even in salty waters," he said.

Nikolai also made it clear that the Russian-made BMP 3F amphibious tanks are very sophisticated, with no country able to compete, including in price.

The price of a BMP 3F amphibious tank is much lower than the prices of American, French and German tanks.

Serj
02-09-2008, 09:27 AM
Please ID these units:

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/595/01hn3.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/7582/72605275lg2.jpg

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3940/72605328fj1.jpg

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5994/72595793wk7.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9640/72595789pu2.jpg

501st_airborne
02-09-2008, 07:24 PM
Intermezzo

found this cool kopassus dude pic.. :D


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/128/384510110_f1c48d3c1b.jpg?v=0

Java Jongen
02-10-2008, 11:17 PM
what about the ukrainian made BTR-50 PK? as I know, if TNI-AL not only use the russian made BTR-50P but The ukrainian version of BTR-50 (BTR-50PK) also.

karbol
02-10-2008, 11:28 PM
Please ID these units:

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/595/01hn3.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/7582/72605275lg2.jpg

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3940/72605328fj1.jpg

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5994/72595793wk7.jpg

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/9640/72595789pu2.jpg

as far as i know, this pics was taken during President bush visit to indonesia. so i think this unit was from Army Raider Batalyon (300thRaider Bn). but the first pics maybe from paspampres (presidential security guard)...

aswp01
02-11-2008, 02:02 AM
as far as i know, this pics was taken during President bush visit to indonesia. so i think this unit was from Army Raider Batalyon (300thRaider Bn). but the first pics maybe from paspampres (presidential security guard)...

Yes, it looks like from Pres Bush visits.
But from their weapons, my best guess is the first pic is from PASKHAS (Air Force' Special Force).

Second Pic is from Marines.

The rest are either from Raiders units or Paspampres (Presidential Security).

Ronguild
02-14-2008, 02:41 AM
Thank you, at least something worth of posting in this boring thread (a simple amount of SF in black with MP-5, till this good post).

Yahoo!
02-21-2008, 10:39 PM
Cool Pix Karbol.

Anyone knows whether the C802 missiles are in use?

Have some old pix of firings

jackehammond
02-24-2008, 03:42 AM
Folks,

Just curious. Why did the Dutch hand over P-51s and B-25s to the Indonesians after withdrawing? Considering the bitterness, I would have thought the Dutch would have just destroyed them?

Jack E. Hammond


.

karbol
02-25-2008, 08:54 AM
^^ i really can't answer u'r question. but FYI the dutch not only gave P-51 and B-25. they also give C-47, BT-13, AT-16, PBY-5 in large number. so in the first time the TNI-AU have full battle battle squadron.

breaking news, the TNI-AU buy 6 more F-16C/D from US, and upgrade 4 older F-16A/B. The deal worth about USD300 Million...

calimero2
02-25-2008, 11:45 AM
what about the ukrainian made BTR-50 PK? as I know, if TNI-AL not only use the russian made BTR-50P but The ukrainian version of BTR-50 (BTR-50PK) also.

The BTR-50P and -PK are both Russian/Soviet made. I have only seen images of the BTR-50PK model in Indonesian service, most of them upgraded to BTR-50PK(M) standard.

Tunasa
02-25-2008, 02:22 PM
Folks,

Just curious. Why did the Dutch hand over P-51s and B-25s to the Indonesians after withdrawing? Considering the bitterness, I would have thought the Dutch would have just destroyed them?

Jack E. Hammond


.

I always thought that it was part of the Dutch-Indonesian Roundtable Conference or maybe it was easier for the Dutch to just leave their planes behind.

But further reading about the Roundtable Conference, the Dutch transfer the Sovereignty from the Colonial Government to United States of Indonesia and created some sort of Commonwealth style union between United States of Indonesia and Dutch with the Queen as the Head of State. Perhaps the hand over of the planes was completed as the sign of good faith to begin the new relationship between the two factions.

DavidDCM
02-25-2008, 03:52 PM
The BTR-50P and -PK are both Russian/Soviet made. I have only seen images of the BTR-50PK model in Indonesian service, most of them upgraded to BTR-50PK(M) standard.

I also only know BTR-50PK in Indonesian service, except for this one pic:

http://www.pu.go.id/infoStatistik/aceh/Galeri/images/aceh_005.jpg

BTR-50PU (I think). At least it has a second "dome", which other Indonesian BTR-50's lack.

equilibrium37
02-26-2008, 12:54 AM
you could be just talking out of your **** right now (pardon my french) but you need to show some proofs about this so called procurment.


^^ i really can't answer u'r question. but FYI the dutch not only gave P-51 and B-25. they also give C-47, BT-13, AT-16, PBY-5 in large number. so in the first time the TNI-AU have full battle battle squadron.

breaking news, the TNI-AU buy 6 more F-16C/D from US, and upgrade 4 older F-16A/B. The deal worth about USD300 Million...

karbol
02-26-2008, 01:12 AM
you could be just talking out of your **** right now (pardon my french) but you need to show some proofs about this so called procurment.

here's the link: http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailheadlines.asp?fileid=20080226.@01&irec=0

U.S. offers help with defense
Desy Nurhayati, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta
The United States offered Monday to help Indonesia address its defense problems, which have forced the archipelago to depend on aging war machines.
Visiting U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Washington was ready to assist Jakarta continue the process of defense reform and enhance its specific defense capabilities, especially in air and maritime domains.
"Any initiatives along these lines by the government of Indonesia will be met with strong U.S. support," Gates told the forum of Indonesian Council on World Affairs (ICWA).
His government's offer reflects a shift from a permanent presence and direct action by U.S. forces.
Gates said U.S. defense policies came as a response to the resurgence of Asian countries, including India, China, Russia and North Korea.
"New centers of power, as well as new sources of instability, are altering Asia's strategic landscapes," he said.
"The challenge for the United States has been to fashion defense policies that adapt to these new security realities."
He did not reveal details of the assistance the U.S. would offer to Indonesia.
Indonesia may have to cut its defense budget in response to soaring oil prices.
Last year, President Bush and President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono agreed to expand military-to-military relations between the two countries.
Washington fully restricted arms sales to Jakarta over human rights concerns in 1999, but lifted the embargo in November 2005.
Gates said the Indonesian military had become more capable, professional and comfortable under civilian leadership.
"Americans have believed that in a democracy the armed forces must be firmly and unquestionably under civilian control," he said.
National Resilience Institute (Lemhannas) Chairman Muladi said the U.S. presence in Indonesia was especially aimed at holding back China from expanding its influence.
"China is expanding greatly, I think they have an interest in holding them back ... and Indonesia is the most strategic place to do so," he said.
During his one-day trip here, Gates also met with Yudhoyono and Indonesian Defense Minister Juwono Sudarsono to discuss military cooperation, especially on the procurement of military equipment and joint training.
Juwono said after the meeting at the State Palace that Indonesia sought to purchase six F-16 jet fighters from the U.S to improve the combat skills of the Indonesian Air Force.
"We are considering the U.S offer to buy the latest version of the F-16, to add to the 10 that we already have," Juwono said.
He said the ministry would discuss the matter further with the defense commission of the House of Representatives and the Finance Ministry, but said the procurement was projected for within the next four to five years.
"We're still evaluating the scheme of the purchase, whether to use the Foreign Military Sale or the Foreign Military Financing."
Despite the limited defense budget, Juwono said Indonesia's plan to buy F-16s from the U.S would not affect its earlier agreement with Russia on the procurement of Sukhois.
Juwono said the ministry had yet to decide which jetfighters would be given priority.
"It depends on which will come first, because there are bureaucratic constraints in the U.S, and financing problems in Russia concerning the aircraft procurement process," he said.
Indonesia currently has 10 F-16 Fighting Falcon jets of A/B version, but only six are airworthy. (anw)

... the truth is, for me, i hope this plan never happened. i think it will be better if the airforce buy more sukhoi...

Yahoo!
02-26-2008, 05:49 AM
[/quote]Juwono said after the meeting at the State Palace that Indonesia sought to purchase six F-16 jet fighters from the U.S to improve the combat skills of the Indonesian Air Force.

... the truth is, for me, i hope this plan never happened. i think it will be better if the airforce buy more sukhoi...[/quote]

I agree with you. I really dont know why the TNI-AU should be interested, after the bad experience with the US...they already have the Sukhoi. Makes better sense to get more. Whatever happened to the "look East" policy? Or is this just some political talk.

Tunasa
02-26-2008, 12:39 PM
We had 1 squadron of F-16 from 1986 so we can say that we have some sort experience with those planes and it make sense to have one flying condition squadron rather than just 4-8 planes; however, I also hope that it would not affect the procurement of the Sukhois.

What happened to "look East" policy? Nothing happened to that policy, it is typical Indonesian Policy to say or act something stupid like saying "Missile Cannon", buying 4 Su-27/30 without the armaments, buying 4 SIGMA corvettes without the Exocet missile and so on. If I remember correctly we had been trying to procure at least 2 squadron of F-16 since the 1990s when the Pakistani's F-16s was hold up in US.

karbol
02-26-2008, 11:57 PM
We had 1 squadron of F-16 from 1986 so we can say that we have some sort experience with those planes and it make sense to have one flying condition squadron rather than just 4-8 planes; however, I also hope that it would not affect the procurement of the Sukhois.

What happened to "look East" policy? Nothing happened to that policy, it is typical Indonesian Policy to say or act something stupid like saying "Missile Cannon", buying 4 Su-27/30 without the armaments, buying 4 SIGMA corvettes without the Exocet missile and so on. If I remember correctly we had been trying to procure at least 2 squadron of F-16 since the 1990s when the Pakistani's F-16s was hold up in US.

i agree about 'we have some experience on F-16. but i think it is useless buy more F-16C/D without AMRAAM and GBU!!! i think the US wont sell that to us. i prefer the airforce upgrade the F-16A/B version...

Tunasa
02-27-2008, 01:02 AM
They are upgrading the rest of the squadron and procuring 6 new ones, aren't they? Anyway lets hope the Minister of Defense or whoever deal with the procurement of defense infrastructure keep their mind together and avoid acting or saying something stupid again.

Yahoo!
02-28-2008, 10:04 PM
We had 1 squadron of F-16 from 1986 so we can say that we have some sort experience with those planes and it make sense to have one flying condition squadron rather than just 4-8 planes; however, I also hope that it would not affect the procurement of the Sukhois.

What happened to "look East" policy? Nothing happened to that policy, it is typical Indonesian Policy to say or act something stupid like saying "Missile Cannon", buying 4 Su-27/30 without the armaments, buying 4 SIGMA corvettes without the Exocet missile and so on. If I remember correctly we had been trying to procure at least 2 squadron of F-16 since the 1990s when the Pakistani's F-16s was hold up in US.

I guess you're right. Why did you say buying 4 SIGMA corvettes without the Exocet? I thought the SIGMA is equipped with 4 x Exocet MM 40 missiles?

Tunasa
02-29-2008, 12:16 AM
The Sigmas are supposed to be equipped with 4 Exocet MM-40 missiles; however if you look closely at all Sigma picture, the box launchers were there but nothing inside it. The rumor is that the government didn't get the export license? for those missiles which shows the degree of incompetence of the Indonesian government that they didn't do their homework before choosing the weapon system for the ships.

Now they are talking about getting some C-802 or Russian equivalent missile for the corvette.

The sad thing is that those degree of incompetence isn't a new thing for the Indonesian government.

karbol
03-02-2008, 04:08 AM
indonesia made CN-235MPA in singapore airshow....

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/AURI/2283423443_ef781f6522_b.jpg

sunsettowner
03-06-2008, 11:00 PM
Hi All
im surprised yet so proud to see that there are quite a number of our "anggota" are english speaker and active internet user. I viewed anggota as one of brown not brain till i found this and someother forum (TNI-AL). pokoke bikin bagga

Kopassus
03-07-2008, 04:56 AM
indonesia made CN-235MPA in singapore airshow....

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/AURI/2283423443_ef781f6522_b.jpg
Nice picture Karbol, jelas dan dari dekat.

Kopassus
03-07-2008, 04:56 AM
indonesia made CN-235MPA in singapore airshow....

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/AURI/2283423443_ef781f6522_b.jpg
Nice picture Karbol, jelas dan dari dekat. Really an airplane to be proud of it.

Java Jongen
03-13-2008, 05:55 AM
@Karbol, nice pics of Sigma
how about the exocet missiles? do you know any information about it? because I saw KRI Hasanuddin in Tv show last saturday, doesn't equipped with exocet, yet.

karbol
03-14-2008, 04:38 AM
^^the missile will be delivered in 2009. so for now we have to be more patience...:):)

Benmedica
03-18-2008, 04:26 AM
Hi all,
Nice pic from silent hunter and i hope it will much pic again from you

:D

fross
03-18-2008, 09:00 AM
nice pice!!

equilibrium37
03-19-2008, 02:45 AM
benmedica; did you have to REPOST the whole picture ???
And some of you need to brush up on your English.

Benmedica
03-19-2008, 05:54 AM
benmedica; did you have to REPOST the whole picture ???
And some of you need to brush up on your English.

thanks for remind me to brush up my english, you know i'm newbie here

:D

karbol
03-20-2008, 10:01 AM
^^destroyer?? i dont think so. KRI ki hajar dewantara is a Light Frigate. she also use as a training ship...

Java Jongen
03-22-2008, 03:34 AM
^^destroyer?? i dont think so. KRI ki hajar dewantara is a Light Frigate. she also use as a training ship...
because i read in some military magazine, KRI Ki Hadjar Dewantara is a destroyer-escort.:)

karbol
03-22-2008, 09:32 PM
^^hmmm... so you mean 'destroyer escort' (perusak kawal). in that case you are right. but in that term, KRI KDA (ki hajar dewantara) 364 not only 'destroyer escort' we have. there also Ahmad Yani Class, Fatahilah Class, etc...

nir117
03-23-2008, 05:39 AM
^^hmmm... so you mean 'destroyer escort' (perusak kawal). in that case you are right. but in that term, KRI KDA (ki hajar dewantara) 364 not only 'destroyer escort' we have. there also Ahmad Yani Class, Fatahilah Class, etc...

KRI KDA only 1,850 tons(full load) is not even a frigate is just a corvette

KRI Fatahilah is also a corvette 1,450 tons (full load)

KRI Ahmad Yani is just a light frigate 2,940 tons(full load)

According to NATO standard, a destroyer is a ship thats above 5000 tons.

karbol
03-24-2008, 04:39 AM
KRI KDA only 1,850 tons(full load) is not even a frigate is just a corvette

KRI Fatahilah is also a corvette 1,450 tons (full load)

KRI Ahmad Yani is just a light frigate 2,940 tons(full load)

According to NATO standard, a destroyer is a ship thats above 5000 tons.

i agree with u about that NATO standard. but the TNI-AL do have some terms 'destroyer escort' (in bahasa: Perusak Kawal)... this terms is refer to a combat ship from corvette to frigate. so you right about destroyer classification, but java jongen also right in TNI way...:)

calimero2
03-24-2008, 04:46 AM
nice pics bro!

Indeed. Thanks for posting them again, in case we missed the first two posts on the same page...

Java Jongen
03-24-2008, 09:56 AM
i agree with u about that NATO standard. but the TNI-AL do have some terms 'destroyer escort' (in bahasa: Perusak Kawal)... this terms is refer to a combat ship from corvette to frigate. so you right about destroyer classification, but java jongen also right in TNI way...:)
so... based on the TNI terminology, all class of our combat ship like van speijk, fatahillah, KH Dewantara are "destroyer-escort" ?
hmmm.... I'm very confuse about it.

karbol
03-24-2008, 09:10 PM
^^haha.. please dont be confused about that. with TNI-AL term, big ship with big gun is a destroyer (perusak):)

Ominae
03-26-2008, 01:23 AM
Don't know if it's me, but the P3 in the revamped PT Pindad said it uses .32 ACP and 7.65 x 17 mm.

Is the upcoming PT Pindad LMG's designation SM2 or SM3? I'm confused.

ggk
03-26-2008, 02:15 AM
i thought destroyer means 'pemusnah'...or is it the same meaning with 'perusak'?

because 'pemusnah' means, to destroy, yet 'perusak' means, to inflict damage.

karbol
03-26-2008, 03:38 AM
Don't know if it's me, but the P3 in the revamped PT Pindad said it uses .32 ACP and 7.65 x 17 mm.

Is the upcoming PT Pindad LMG's designation SM2 or SM3? I'm confused.

pindad designation for next LMG is SM-3, 5,56mm.... the SM-2 use 7,62...

karbol
03-26-2008, 03:41 AM
i thought destroyer means 'pemusnah'...or is it the same meaning with 'perusak'?

because 'pemusnah' means, to destroy, yet 'perusak' means, to inflict damage.

the truth is, i dont know for sure. but in Indonesia language, translation for destroyer is "perusak"..

ggk
03-26-2008, 11:27 PM
everyone have that cool looking sunglass!

goat89
03-26-2008, 11:28 PM
HAHAHA. Loos cool though. ;)

Master Chief
03-27-2008, 12:47 AM
everyone have that cool looking sunglass!

GGK,
those sunglasses were bought in Petaling Street lah... Chinese made :)

ggk
03-27-2008, 01:15 AM
GGK,
those sunglasses were bought in Petaling Street lah... Chinese made :)

no way...that looks like a real tactical sunglass...

goat89
03-27-2008, 01:28 AM
no way...that looks like a real tactical sunglass...
I concur... unless they are really well made. I have an Oakley M-frame Indus. and I have yet to see really good copies of it. Well, fake ones any way.

Java Jongen
03-29-2008, 03:25 AM
What is VBSS ? The shoulder badge says "Satuan Eskort AL". Is it Kopaska related ?
Thanks.
I Guess VBSS is another unit, it's not Kopaska....

aswp01
03-29-2008, 06:26 AM
I concur... unless they are really well made. I have an Oakley M-frame Indus. and I have yet to see really good copies of it. Well, fake ones any way.


Hmmm, when the pics is enlarged, (from their logo) I think those sunnies are Rudy Project's. Same brand as those bought by the KOSTRAD when they went to Middle East. Nice sunnies.

aswp01
03-29-2008, 06:31 AM
I Guess VBSS is another unit, it's not Kopaska....

From Commando Magazine: VBSS is a unit integrated within every Indonesian Navy Ship. It's role is as vessel boarding team. Unlike Kopaska, they are all regular sailors. But as their assignment requires it, they got Commando training by KOPASKA.

Members of VBSS are sailors appointed by the captain of their ships. A single unit consists of 7 men and they are all trained in CQB (in vessel environment). Larger ships may have more than one VBSS team.

karbol
03-29-2008, 11:00 PM
--Sorry, double post--

ggk
03-31-2008, 12:37 AM
plastic M4 its a replica only use for training

Master Chief
03-31-2008, 01:57 AM
plastic M4 its a replica only use for training

Is it a Singaporean sailor ? Why the h*** he is using a plastic replica on board of a military ship conducting a military exercise ?

ggk
03-31-2008, 05:38 AM
Is it a Singaporean sailor ? Why the h*** he is using a plastic replica on board of a military ship conducting a military exercise ?

red tape..to many regulation if using real weapon with a friendly nation ship

equilibrium37
04-05-2008, 04:33 PM
Does anyone in here knows how to embed videos ?

b4bhc
04-05-2008, 05:01 PM
Hello all,

I am very new to this forum and I have just a couple of questions.
A few years ago, I trained with the Indonesian military and I traded a DPM uniform with them.
Now, on the sleeve of the uniform are some patches that I have not been able to figure out the meaning of.
One of these says "Mabes TNI" and below that is a pentagon shaped patch with a circle inside, a wreath with an anchor with wings (it looks like) on top of the anchor.
On the other sleeve it says "yudhawastupramuka"
Any help with what these patches mean would be great.
Thank you.

fross
04-07-2008, 10:51 AM
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk2/imunk08/DENJAKA-1.jpg

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk2/imunk08/DENJAKA-2.jpg

DENJAKA

fross
04-07-2008, 10:53 AM
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk2/imunk08/TAIFIB-5.jpg

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk2/imunk08/TAIFIB-9.jpg

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk2/imunk08/TAIFIB-6.jpg

fross
04-07-2008, 10:55 AM
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk2/imunk08/RUPANPUR-4.jpg

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk2/imunk08/RUPANPUR-7.jpg

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk2/imunk08/RUPANPUR-3.jpg

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk2/imunk08/RUPANPUR-1.jpg

Java Jongen
04-09-2008, 07:21 PM
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk2/imunk08/RUPANPUR-4.jpg



I like this one.... SS-1 with SPG-1 and meprolight scope... thats great, nice pics bro!!!

fross
04-10-2008, 07:43 AM
yes bro this SS1

ZAYYANA
04-16-2008, 12:57 AM
Guys,

where is pictures and article for indonesian armed forces activities during their operation (Trikora, Dwikora n Seroja), it seems great to know about TNI at that time.

Thanks

ZAYYANA
04-16-2008, 11:04 PM
Please ID this armored vehicle, it seem TNI used it Atjeh during military campaign there..

karbol
04-16-2008, 11:23 PM
Guys,

where is pictures and article for indonesian armed forces activities during their operation (Trikora, Dwikora n Seroja), it seems great to know about TNI at that time.

Thanks

well, the dwikora is a undeclared war... so it must be so hard to find some pics about the operation. but about trikora, some of the pics (planes, tanks, warship, etc) are already post up. please look up previous pages...

karbol
04-16-2008, 11:24 PM
Please ID this armored vehicle, it seem TNI used it Atjeh during military campaign there..

first pics is a AMX VCI (APC Version), the second: AMX Mk61 (SPH 105mm Version)

ggk
04-17-2008, 01:09 AM
need to see more of the tupolev...

equilibrium37
04-17-2008, 01:15 AM
Hey great pictures;

Sort of going off topic, but i can tell that there are a couple members here from Indonesia. Well the thing is i am going to Indonesia (Jakarta) for studies and i havent been there in roughly 8 years. Just wanted to ask how is it in Jakarta, any places that you guys would recommend me to go to ?

Cheers.

karbol
04-17-2008, 03:10 AM
Hey great pictures;

Sort of going off topic, but i can tell that there are a couple members here from Indonesia. Well the thing is i am going to Indonesia (Jakarta) for studies and i havent been there in roughly 8 years. Just wanted to ask how is it in Jakarta, any places that you guys would recommend me to go to ?

Cheers.

hmm... what are you studying? these days, jakarta are so hot, but if rain, there will be flood every where... and the traffic jam are getting worse. where do you want to go? for fun or for study? or for living?

equilibrium37
04-17-2008, 03:29 AM
hmm... what are you studying? these days, jakarta are so hot, but if rain, there will be flood every where... and the traffic jam are getting worse. where do you want to go? for fun or for study? or for living?

Like i said for studies. Im planning of taking International Relations. Hows the flooding in Kelapa Gading (did i get that right ? rofl)

Hey; new avatar eh karbol. Got anymore pictures of the SS2 ? I really hope pindad comes up with a quad rail handguards similiar to the m4 system. And they need to cover the AK style gas system.

karbol
04-17-2008, 03:53 AM
Like i said for studies. Im planning of taking International Relations. Hows the flooding in Kelapa Gading (did i get that right ? rofl)

Hey; new avatar eh karbol. Got anymore pictures of the SS2 ? I really hope pindad comes up with a quad rail handguards similiar to the m4 system. And they need to cover the AK style gas system.

well.. i suggest you took study in Indonesia University (universitas indonesia/ UI), in Depok a few miles southern Jakarta... its a nice place. the weather are more cool than jakarta. in fact, me and my friend often do skirmish in there, because they have a little forest...:)

these days, no floods in jakarta. but if it rain...:roll:

equilibrium37
04-17-2008, 04:44 AM
what kind of skirmish are you talking about karbol ?? hahahhaa.

karbol
04-17-2008, 05:47 AM
what kind of skirmish are you talking about karbol ?? hahahhaa.

skirmish with airsoft gun... did i said that right??:cantbeli:
btw, please check your e-mail. i have a nice gift for you...

equilibrium37
04-17-2008, 05:57 AM
skirmish with airsoft gun... did i said that right??:cantbeli:
btw, please check your e-mail. i have a nice gift for you...\

Hahahhaa; well dont make me come there with my Walther CO2 gun. hahaha just kidding; Thanks for the amazing pictures.

mikec62001
04-17-2008, 06:20 AM
Not too sure which unit this guy is from

Possibly Jala Mengkara Detachment (Denjaka), Komando Pasukan Katak (KOPASKA) or Yontaifib.

equilibrium37
04-17-2008, 06:21 AM
damn; he looks mad pissed off or just high on shrooms.

mikec62001
04-17-2008, 06:40 AM
Jala Mengkara Detachment (Denjaka) (CT)

(Note: Heckler & Koch 416s)

mikec62001
04-17-2008, 07:04 AM
Yontaifib Selection - looks similar to BUDS

sasaki3rd
04-17-2008, 07:20 AM
Intermezzo

found this cool kopassus dude pic.. :D


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/128/384510110_f1c48d3c1b.jpg?v=0

i think i've been on that road b4.. our team(airsoft) once held a training event at their training grounds @ situlembang, Bandung, Jawa Barat..

sasaki3rd
04-17-2008, 07:40 AM
skirmish with airsoft gun... did i said that right??:cantbeli:
btw, please check your e-mail. i have a nice gift for you...


\

Hahahhaa; well dont make me come there with my Walther CO2 gun. hahaha just kidding; Thanks for the amazing pictures.

Airsofters eh? hey.. if u happens to have some time.. why dont u check out our skirmish spot in bandung.. we have some cool thick forest here..

sorry for the off topic post..

equilibrium37
04-17-2008, 07:42 AM
Nah not me man; i prefer the real deal. But its pretty funny when i just take out my co2 gun and shoot my friends on their arses when they wont shut up.

ps; no need for apologies.

mikec62001
04-17-2008, 10:43 AM
Yontaifib Kommando intai Para Amphibi KIPAM (now known as Batalyon Intai Amfibi) training pics

aswp01
04-17-2008, 03:12 PM
Guys

Ken Conboy just released his newest book on Indonesian Special FOrces. It's title is: "ELite - Indonesian Special Forces". Equinox is the publisher.

Though it maybe rather 'thin', it contains quite few details on the insights of the Indonesian Special Forces. A must have for collectors. :)

At his count, Indonesia used to have close to a dozen Special Forces units. Few still exists today.

aswp01
04-17-2008, 03:21 PM
The operator (second from right) was he holding a G36K?


Jala Mengkara Detachment (Denjaka) (CT)

(Note: Heckler & Koch 416s)

mikec62001
04-17-2008, 05:39 PM
The operator (second from right) was he holding a G36K?


You are correct

DavidDCM
04-18-2008, 05:12 AM
It's not the same as that of the German Armed Forces.

Your thing is the Zeiss Z-Point:
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5885/aaa290x01bx6.jpg
(Pic shows civilian version)

Whereas the German Army has a red-dot made by Hensoldt:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/HKV_G36.jpg

ZAYYANA
04-21-2008, 03:34 AM
Please ID this Vehicles? it seem TNI also make their own humvee... How many they have?

DavidDCM
04-21-2008, 05:10 AM
First one is an American AM General HMMWV, better known as the HumVee.
For the rest, see page 18.

ZAYYANA
04-22-2008, 12:37 AM
First one is an American AM General HMMWV, better known as the HumVee.
For the rest, see page 18.

It's not American AM General HMMWV, you can compare both of it. I found it in Angkasa Magazine from my friend in Jakarta but it's in Bahasa. According to him TNI make it in Army workshop in Bandung and the artillery would use it to carry howitzer.

Anybody know the truth about it?

ggk
04-22-2008, 01:17 AM
mmm the humvee park beside a BMW?

ZAYYANA
04-22-2008, 01:26 AM
mmm the humvee park beside a BMW?

Yupp... it's seem the prototype of The Indonesian Army HUMVEE named BHIRAWA.

ggk
04-22-2008, 04:08 AM
the thais have use it..i saw in some picture during the tak bai incident

Ominae
04-23-2008, 02:45 AM
Philippines, Malaysia and Singapore too.

ggk
04-23-2008, 02:47 AM
malaysia only the paskal use it..in a very small number

DavidDCM
04-23-2008, 03:53 AM
Philippines, Malaysia and Singapore too.


Haven't seen it with any one of them yet.

karbol
04-23-2008, 05:59 AM
Please ID this Vehicles? it seem TNI also make their own humvee... How many they have?

1st pics are 'BHIRAWA'. its a copy of american HUMVEE, only a few prototype only...
2nd pics are APS 6X6 (medium armored personal carrier). made by PT.PINDAD, also prototype only..
3rd Pics are PANSER 6X6, made by PT.PINDAD. Now in production. the army will be receive 300+ of this APC..
4th Pics are P-2. Made by PT.SSE... use by Police and Navy (marines forces), but dont know how many they receive
5th pics are also P-2, Police variant...

DavidDCM
04-23-2008, 08:58 AM
I already told him that infos on all these vehicles are on page 18 :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/He219/dailypix/fresh/freshest/30945449.jpg

Latihan bersama antara prajurit dari kesatuan khusus TNI AL (Kopaska) dan RSN Singapura

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/6936/dsc0085vc0.jpg
Kopassus

sasaki3rd
04-23-2008, 09:31 PM
^^mean lookin' mp5s! i never knew indonesian army were this ever good lookin..

sasaki3rd
04-24-2008, 01:14 AM
My sister's boyfriend -a 2nd lieuteunant of KOSTRAD- recieved a training at Batujajar, Kopassus Base, this month.. he said that one of the G36 was shot next to him in the shooting range earlier in this month.. i wonder if anyone have any latest g36 photos with kopassus?

ZAYYANA
04-24-2008, 01:36 AM
My sister's boyfriend -a 2nd lieuteunant of KOSTRAD- recieved a training at Batujajar, Kopassus Base, this month.. he said that one of the G36 was shot next to him in the shooting range earlier in this month.. i wonder if anyone have any latest g36 photos with kopassus?

still Waiting Kopasus with G36....? or maybe we can't find it yet coz they are special force.... with limited publication.

karbol
04-24-2008, 05:05 AM
^^well, Kopassus is a special forces, so i guess they must be have a lot of weapon, even tough those arms maybe not going to be their standard weapon. only for training i guess... these days kopassus use Pindad SS-2 as their standard riffle..

karbol
04-24-2008, 05:07 AM
^^mean lookin' mp5s! i never knew indonesian army were this ever good lookin..

i think... 'good looking' is not too important:)...

Master Chief
04-25-2008, 08:40 AM
Philippines, Malaysia and Singapore too.

Actually my question was "G36 operator", not "G36 owner". You see the difference ?

ggk
04-25-2008, 09:36 AM
in that case indonesian were indeed the main operator of G36, i guess because it is widely distributed among their special forces? am i right?

DavidDCM
04-25-2008, 09:43 AM
I am not Ominae, but actually I don't see the difference :D
But again I point out that I have never seen the G36 in use with either of the three nations. I've never seen a pic or read a press release that either Philippines, Malaysia or Singapore have the G36.

Thailand against that definitely has the G36 and is operating it in active service since quite some time.

boreal
04-25-2008, 09:50 AM
I am not Ominae, but actually I don't see the difference :D
But again I point out that I have never seen the G36 in use with either of the three nations. I've never seen a pic or read a press release that either Philippines, Malaysia or Singapore have the G36.

Thailand against that definitely has the G36 and is operating it in active service since quite some time.

In this same web some time ago, were posted dome pics of SF from the philippines with some G-36 short versions

karbol
04-25-2008, 09:59 AM
in that case indonesian were indeed the main operator of G36, i guess because it is widely distributed among their special forces? am i right?

but i heard, indonesia (DENJAKA-Navy Special forces) receive only a few. and it is only a promotional gift from HK... just like the SAR-21 in Indonesia Airforce (PASKHAS)..

DavidDCM
04-25-2008, 10:08 AM
Hi boreal,
I gotta correct myself, a little research confirmed that the Philippine Naval Special Warfare Group owns at least a small number of G36C. Thanks for that hint woot

ggk
04-25-2008, 10:12 AM
I am not Ominae, but actually I don't see the difference :D
But again I point out that I have never seen the G36 in use with either of the three nations. I've never seen a pic or read a press release that either Philippines, Malaysia or Singapore have the G36.

Thailand against that definitely has the G36 and is operating it in active service since quite some time.

sorry my mistake malaysian HK G36C operator were Gerup Gerak Khas only....again sorry bcoz this have got nothing to do with TNI pic topic.

karbol
04-25-2008, 10:42 AM
sorry my mistake malaysian HK G36C operator were Gerup Gerak Khas only....again sorry bcoz this have got nothing to do with TNI pic topic.

Its ok GGK:)...

karbol
04-28-2008, 08:38 AM
puma...

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd112/karbol1978/AURI/34752555964eeaa5686bph2.jpg

Master Chief
04-28-2008, 12:22 PM
still Waiting Kopasus with G36....? or maybe we can't find it yet coz they are special force.... with limited publication.

Negative...
Kopassus is the most publicitized TNI's unit; from the pictures, books, operations, etc. It is not limited at all.
Their training center in Batujajar is open to the public & is busy conducting variety of trainings for different groups of civilians regularly. No other TNI's units are doing the same thing, not even Polri.
Kopassus is the TNI's celebrity.:)

ZAYYANA
04-28-2008, 10:33 PM
Negative...
Kopassus is the most publicitized TNI's unit; from the pictures, books, operations, etc. It is not limited at all.
Their training center in Batujajar is open to the public & is busy conducting variety of trainings for different groups of civilians regularly. No other TNI's units are doing the same thing, not even Polri.
Kopassus is the TNI's celebrity.:)

Bro, you are right.... Kopassus is the most publicitized TNI's unit.... but they never announced their military equipments. as you know, Indonesia didn't have diplomatic relations with Israel but Indonesia have a lot military equipments from Israel such as Galil, Uzi, Micro Uzi, etc. and don't forget, on the beginning of 80's Indonesia had imported 36 A-4 Skyhawk from Israel.:backhand:

Master Chief
04-29-2008, 12:00 AM
Bro, you are right.... Kopassus is the most publicitized TNI's unit.... but they never announced their military equipments. ...

Another negative... (sorry).
Kopassus is open enough in showing their arsenals. I think almost all of their disposals are known already to the publilc. In fact, Kopassus is the pioneer in TNI of showing-off their equipment & demonstrating the combat drills in front of the media & public, which is then followed by other TNI units, for the sake of PR. Since then, we can get lots & lots of their pictures with their arsenals & their capabilities flooded the internet.
Kopassus don't have to announce what they have & what they don't have. Their frequent appearances in front of public are good enough to tell us what they have.

Master Chief
04-29-2008, 12:10 AM
....as you know, Indonesia didn't have diplomatic relations with Israel but Indonesia have a lot military equipments from Israel such as Galil, Uzi, Micro Uzi, etc. and don't forget, on the beginning of 80's Indonesia had imported 36 A-4 Skyhawk from Israel.

One thing we all learn from the military: let the politicians screaming about ideology & politics BS; we move ahead purchasing best war machines from any vendors. p-)

Not only Indonesia, so many Moslem countries, which "Condemning Israel is a must whatever the Jews do" but they posses "made in Israel" arsenals. What a big BS, isn't it ? :)

In weaponry business, you don't need diplomatic relations. What you need is money.

DavidDCM
04-29-2008, 05:21 PM
To second that, some pics of Tontaipur with IMI Micro Galil:

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/9175/tontaipur039uu.jpg

http://222.124.12.210/gallery/DSC_0297.jpg

http://222.124.12.210/gallery/DSC_0278.jpg

http://www.gun-world.net/isreal/imi/galil/hoo.jpg

Master Chief
04-29-2008, 11:01 PM
To second that, some pics of Tontaipur with IMI Micro Galil:



I hope I'm not reposting these pictures.
Additional Tontaipur pics with Israelis made guns.
Can anybody ID each one of those ? :)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/masbambang/Colection/Indonesian%20Army/TONTAIPUR/parade2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/masbambang/Colection/Indonesian%20Army/TONTAIPUR/Taipur.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/masbambang/Colection/Indonesian%20Army/TONTAIPUR/TaipurSniper.jpg

Java Jongen
04-30-2008, 01:42 AM
hmm....Galil SAR, Galil Galatz, and UZI

DavidDCM
04-30-2008, 04:58 AM
Almost :D

Top pic from left to right:
AK-74, Galil ARM 7,62, AKS-74U, Uzi, AK-74 with GP-25 grenadelauncher.*

Middle pic: Galil ARM 7,62

Bottom Pic: Galatz

*Dunno, maybe the AK's are AK-101 or so, difficult to tell.

Edit/ I just got to know that those are Bulgarian Arsenal rifles. Left and Right are Arsenal AR-M1F and the one in the center is the Arsenal AR-SF. Both in 5,56mm.

Kopassus
05-03-2008, 06:47 AM
The A-4s from Skuadron Udara 11 at Hasanuddin had two roles, one of the roles was reconnaissance, 2 A-4Es were equiped for reconnaissance using either a VICON 70mm or a Minipan 35mm camera. They are now taken out of service, selain A-4E tidak ada pswt lain yg bisa berreconnaissance ya?

ZAYYANA
05-05-2008, 12:21 AM
I found it a new Bull-pup made by Indonesian. A nice bull-pup has been made (for Asian) I think, equipped with granade launcher. Named SS-2000 by PINDAD. Anybody know details?

ggk
05-05-2008, 01:25 AM
nice and sleek ...i like the one with Aimpoint sight

4_tune
05-05-2008, 07:41 AM
nice and sleek ...i like the one with Aimpoint sight

they have done it, when will malaysia produce her own rifle. at least a full length rifle if not the bullpup one's :(

ggk
05-05-2008, 10:11 AM
they have done it, when will malaysia produce her own rifle. at least a full length rifle if not the bullpup one's :(

lol we can discuss this in the discussion page, this is photo only pages.

Johanus Bau
05-05-2008, 10:14 PM
Hey guys,

Anyone have any pics of Fasharkan's new Sea Hunter?

Johanus Bau
05-05-2008, 11:03 PM
Is this the Sea Hunter made by TNI AL's Fasharkan in 2007?

I believe there were two types... one with 2 engines and latest with three? Is that right?

Tempest
05-06-2008, 02:53 AM
Any pics of Ex Chandrapura.. past and present?

equilibrium37
05-06-2008, 04:38 AM
dont the Malaysians produce their own M4's under license?

ps. how are you karbol. im afraid to say that you'll be seeing those pictures you've sent me some time ago on another forum ..








just kidding mate haha; just teasing you

Johanus Bau
05-06-2008, 06:15 AM
this one's?? but this is only with 2 engines...



Yeah i know, strange but the Dispenal report says that it was built in 2007 and is powered by 3 x 200hp engines... giving it max speed of 38 knots. Maybe the reporter did a 'salah ketik'??

Does anyone have any other specs/pictures of the Sea Hunter and Combat Boat? I heard they will use them in Latgab TNI 2008... cool!

ZAYYANA
05-06-2008, 09:24 PM
dont the Malaysians produce their own M4's under license?

ps. how are you karbol. im afraid to say that you'll be seeing those pictures you've sent me some time ago on another forum ..








just kidding mate haha; just teasing you

Are they...? anybody could show it us, The M4 made in Malaysians....:)

karbol
05-06-2008, 09:36 PM
Are they...? anybody could show it us, The M4 made in Malaysians....:)

search in malaysia army pics thread... i've seen the M4 made in Malaysia in those thread...

karbol
05-06-2008, 09:42 PM
dont the Malaysians produce their own M4's under license?

ps. how are you karbol. im afraid to say that you'll be seeing those pictures you've sent me some time ago on another forum ..








just kidding mate haha; just teasing you

hehehe... i'm fine thx. when you will back to indonesia? about 2 weeks ago, me and my friend visit PINDAD... it's very amazing!! ride the new 6X6 APC, shot few round of SS-2, P-3 (pistol) and (the most amazing...) shot the SPR-2!!! (12,7mm Heavy Sniper Riffle)... i will post the pics later...

equilibrium37
05-07-2008, 11:22 AM
hehehe... i'm fine thx. when you will back to indonesia? about 2 weeks ago, me and my friend visit PINDAD... it's very amazing!! ride the new 6X6 APC, shot few round of SS-2, P-3 (pistol) and (the most amazing...) shot the SPR-2!!! (12,7mm Heavy Sniper Riffle)... i will post the pics later...

Oh damn you; i feel like killing you. How the hell did you get into PINDAD? By the way the 6x6 APC is just a lincense built (VAB) am i right ?

samourai
05-07-2008, 12:29 PM
I don't think pindad copy under licence the VBL, it is a vehicule with the same mission but it is not a VBL under licence.

ZAYYANA
05-07-2008, 09:28 PM
Oh damn you; i feel like killing you. How the hell did you get into PINDAD? By the way the 6x6 APC is just a lincense built VBL am i right ?

No, you are wrong.... 6x6 APC are pure Indonesian made with some VBL style.... you can compare the design..

gamez99
05-08-2008, 03:09 AM
hi,, i'm new member..

here.. i have some pictures from TNI AL.. cayooo! aku cinta negeriku..

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/jalesveva-jayamahe-11.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/jalesveva-jayamahe-05.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/jalesveva-jayamahe-24.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/jalesveva-jayamahe-14.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/jalesveva-jayamahe-23.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/jalesveva-jayamahe-25.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/jalesveva-jayamahe-17.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/jalesveva-jayamahe-18.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/KRI_Hasanuddin_366.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/brown_water_navy.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/5659294_jalesveva.jpg

give your comment plz.. ^_^

thx.. terima kasih.. arigatou gozaimasu.. xie xie.. merci.. danke.. :lol: :p

samourai
05-08-2008, 03:59 AM
this model of Pindad are not similar at a VBL but at a VAB but no under licence more equipement are different. rear door, indoor equipement,etc. it is an indonesian product

DavidDCM
05-08-2008, 05:53 AM
The VAB is a 4x4 vehicle, the new Pindad "Panser" is a 6x6.
It's of course totally possible that the Indonesian engineers took some inspiration of the VAB, but calling the Panser a copy simply does not reflect the truth.

This is the VAB
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/3597/0003vr7.jpg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z115/yogaz79/VAB_indonesia_01.jpg
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/7324/0009jx6.jpg

That's the "Panser" (when will that thing get a real name?)
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/1135/panser2om3.jpg

Similar, but obviously not the same.

ggk
05-08-2008, 09:04 AM
the statue is HUGE!

Kopassus
05-08-2008, 10:56 AM
hehehe... i'm fine thx. when you will back to indonesia? about 2 weeks ago, me and my friend visit PINDAD... it's very amazing!! ride the new 6X6 APC, shot few round of SS-2, P-3 (pistol) and (the most amazing...) shot the SPR-2!!! (12,7mm Heavy Sniper Riffle)... i will post the pics later...
Waaauwww....tell us more about your experience....!!

Kopassus
05-08-2008, 10:57 AM
Makasih Gamez99 dan selamat datang!!

Master Chief
05-09-2008, 02:04 AM
the statue is HUGE!

Yup, they spent the military budget to build huge statues better than buying or maintaining arsenals.
If you compare the Chief of Navy (KSAL) who built that statue with the statue itself, you will find that both of them really look alike...

equilibrium37
05-09-2008, 02:27 AM
Yup; and you just spent a couple of minutes ranting about an issue most people here dont care about. The statue was built to commemorate the Indonesian Navy. Its a Photos & Videos thread mate, so lets just keep posting.

Master Chief
05-09-2008, 04:31 AM
The VAB is a 4x4 vehicle, the new Pindad "Panser" is a 6x6.
It's of course totally possible that the Indonesian engineers took some inspiration of the VAB, but calling the Panser a copy simply does not reflect the truth.

This is the VAB

That's the "Panser" (when will that thing get a real name?)

Similar, but obviously not the same.

What can we say; all wheeled land armors have similar concept.
Another Indonesian made 6x6 wheeled land armor which is so called APS1-V1:

Front view:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1frontview.jpg

Rear angled view:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1rearangleview.jpg

Specs:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1specs.jpg

180degree view glass cockpit:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1glasscockpit1.jpg

Gunner position:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1gunner.jpg

Master Chief
05-09-2008, 04:37 AM
More pics of APS1-V1:

The manufacturers:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1stickers.jpg

The rear door with a gun hole:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1viewgl*******s.jpg

The axe & shovel:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1shovelaxe.jpg

The rear tyres:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1reartires.jpg

The tail lights:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1rearlights.jpg

Master Chief
05-09-2008, 04:41 AM
More pics:

Viewing window for crew:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1gunnerviewwindow.jpg

Front axle:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1frontaxle.jpg

Engine hatch:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1enginehatch.jpg

Cockpit hatch:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1cockpithatch.jpg

Side climbing ladders:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1climbingladder.jpg

Master Chief
05-09-2008, 04:45 AM
Still more pics:

Exterior camera no 1:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1camera2.jpg

Exterior camera no 2:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1camera1.jpg

Camera operator:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1cameraoperator1.jpg

Cabin:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V1cabin.jpg

The future crew:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1V1futurecrew.jpg

Master Chief
05-09-2008, 04:49 AM
Finally, last pics:

The cockpit:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1V1cockpit1.jpg

The driver seat:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1V1cockpit2.jpg

The main gun:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1V1SPM23.jpg

The main gun, Pindad's SPM-2 7.62mm:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1V1SPM22.jpg

The smoke grenade launchers:
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1V1smokegrenadelaunchers.jpg

Java Jongen
05-09-2008, 08:46 AM
ah... I remember, APS-1 design is look like Ratell APC (south Africa) and Sibmas (Belgium) but without 90mm cockerill canon.

and this one, some media says this panser name is "type zero" (Type-0)
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/1135/panser2om3.jpg

Java Jongen
05-09-2008, 09:05 AM
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/jalesveva-jayamahe-25.jpg


nah... what abaut that? is that KEV P-2 or Nenggala APC?

DavidDCM
05-09-2008, 11:38 AM
It's the P2, APC-version.

-----
Of the Pindad APS-1 there also exists a version that looks quite similar to the new "Panser".

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7062/0007jr8.jpg

gamez99
05-09-2008, 02:04 PM
6x6 panser pindad (APS-1) pictures

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/KFK005-01.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/KFK005-07.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/KFK005-08.jpg

----------------------------

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/haritni2005827yw8fn.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/rranpur_pindad.jpg

-----------------------------------

Kopassus
05-10-2008, 12:00 AM
David: terimakasih very much forteupikceurs!
Master chief:great pictures!
Foto2 ini dibikin dimana?

Master Chief
05-10-2008, 07:41 AM
Master chief:great pictures!
Foto2 ini dibikin dimana?

I got them from an internal source in Pindad, a few years back.

Master Chief
05-10-2008, 07:58 AM
It's the P2, APC-version.

-----
Of the Pindad APS-1 there also exists a version that looks quite similar to the new "Panser".



OK then, it has become clearer that there are three versions of APS1 6x6 made by Pindad:

1. APS1-V1:

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/APS1-V11.jpg

2. Version 2 (whatever they officially call it):

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/PanserV2.jpg

3. Version 3:

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk14/greatmasterchief/Land%20armor/panser2om3.jpg

Seems the difference is only the physical look: the cockpit style & the axles layout. Interior organs should be the same.

Which one is the production version ?

karbol
05-10-2008, 08:02 AM
the 3rd version... but the engine made by renault. see my post...

karbol
05-10-2008, 08:11 AM
Karbol, the whiteboard with Mr. Vice President's handwritten (which says: "Order 150 unit. Delivery 5/10/2008"), the drawing is APS 4x4, not 6x6.

yeah.. but PINDAD never built such 4X4 APC's... so i guess the vice president sign in the wrong drawing:roll:... also, an explaination from PINDAD staff says the last APC that gets the army order...

Master Chief
05-10-2008, 08:13 AM
wow.. nice looking.. :)

Yup, you or we may say that. But to some fallen Marines families, this piece of antique is a tragedy. Many Marines have lost their lives because of the failure of this ancient war machine.

Master Chief
05-10-2008, 08:24 AM
the 3rd version... but the engine made by renault. see my post...

This "3rd version" has a more complex drive train & wheels steering systems. The four wheels from first two axles from the front are the steering wheels, whereas the other two versions need only one front axle to steer. In result, (1) more hydraulic power is absorbed for steering, (2) to some extent it add more weight.

Anybody disagrees with my statement ?
Anybody knows the reasons the Army chose this 3rd version ?

DavidDCM
05-10-2008, 08:35 AM
I have the thought spooking around in my head that the first two versions have a drive-train based on a civil truck, this is why they have that arrangement with two axles in the rear and one steering axle in the front. The new Panser against that has a completely new drive train specially built for that tank and not based on a civilian truck. So this one should be the most advanced of the three designs.

--

Let's hope the modified BTR-50 doesn't sink any more. Or on the other hand let's hope the armchair generals don't send the tanks out again into maritime exercises when the waves are too high :roll:

karbol
05-10-2008, 08:37 AM
^^i dont much about technical. but my friend said (he is an auto designer) the 1st version is simply a truck with armour. the engine also from ISUZU... the 2nd, i dont know... but i think the 3rd version is the more pretty then the other.. hehehe

ggk
05-10-2008, 10:56 AM
The first military type vehicles were a perkasa truck under carieage with an armored skin, by Pt Pindad. All the transmission and engine were taken of the shelf from the agriculture vehicles industry. As we know the indonesia were way ahead in building its own trucks and heavy vehicles. Experiences from these industry were the main reason on the self reliance and self sustainability of Indonesia military industry....and the birth of these new armoured vehicles.

ggk
05-10-2008, 11:49 AM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2420/1514863881_0b7e958726.jpg?v=0

sweeeeeeet

ggk
05-10-2008, 11:51 AM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2025/1515722504_a89d567ebd.jpg?v=0

ggk
05-10-2008, 11:53 AM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2328/1514869267_6c6aaa44c6.jpg?v=0

Tempest
05-10-2008, 12:10 PM
cewek manis p-)

Java Jongen
05-11-2008, 02:05 AM
The first military type vehicles were a perkasa truck under carieage with an armored skin, by Pt Pindad. All the transmission and engine were taken of the shelf from the agriculture vehicles industry. As we know the indonesia were way ahead in building its own trucks and heavy vehicles. Experiences from these industry were the main reason on the self reliance and self sustainability of Indonesia military industry....and the birth of these new armoured vehicles.
pardon me sir, I think Perkasa Truck are made by PT Texmaco Perkasa not by Pindad

ggk
05-11-2008, 02:23 AM
i know...i meant the military version use the Perkasa Trucks undercarrieage...this was done by Pt Pindad. The Perkasa trucks for agriculture industry were done by Pt Texmaco.

Pt Pindad having no or little experience in building chasis and undercarrieage have to use the Pt texmaco Perkasa Trucks product as a start. Its good start (if you ask me) You have to start from somewhere.

Ominae
05-11-2008, 04:55 AM
Master Chief, you know what year when the Pindad APCS/vehicles were made?

Ominae
05-11-2008, 04:59 AM
Hi boreal,
I gotta correct myself, a little research confirmed that the Philippine Naval Special Warfare Group owns at least a small number of G36C. Thanks for that hint woot

LOL! Mistaken identity... XP

Also, the Philippine Army's CT unit Light Reaction Battalion do have G36s too. I saw a pic of it, but I'm not sure if I can still get it.

Master Chief
05-11-2008, 08:04 AM
Master Chief, you know what year when the Pindad APCS/vehicles were made?

The APS1-V1 started to be shown to the public in Aug 2005 (CMIIW).

karbol
05-13-2008, 04:30 AM
The kneeling guy with a black hat; is it a "supposed-to-be-a-SMG" ?

yup.. it's a PM-2 (SMG 9mm)...

holyman
05-13-2008, 05:36 PM
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/0/3/2/0067230.jpg
N250

http://www.indonesian-aerospace.com/gallery/images/cn235_mpa07.jpg
CN 235 MPA

indo aircrafts not so handsome but at least we re trying to make it ourself :bash:

peace to all:hug:

Master Chief
05-14-2008, 03:30 AM
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/middle/0/3/2/0067230.jpg
N250

peace to all

Just to make sure this first indigeneous passenger aircraft is not forgotten:

Science and technology minister Dr Bacharuddin Habibie recalls with satisfaction that, when he announced the 50- to 70-seat-N250 programme in 1987, he set 10 August, 1995, for the first flight, to coincide with the 50th anniversary of Indonesian independence: "At exactly eight minutes past ten on 10 August, 1995, attended by the president, members of cabinet, foreign dignitaries and the press, we made the first flight of the N250 on schedule. To meet a schedule set eight years beforehand is a task completed by few aerospace companies in the world. Normally, companies prefer to conduct the first flight in secret, to be sure that everything is working correctly, but we had announced the flight in advance and, if we are to establish ourselves in the global aerospace market, we need to prove ourselves on the world stage," Habibie says.

FIRST PROTOTYPE
In the subsequent six months, the first (development) prototype has been flown for 230 flight-test hours. The flight envelope has been opened up to the dive speed for flutter clearance in clean configuration. Still outstanding is the flutter clearance with flaps deployed, but IPTN (then, now is called PT DI) expects no problems. Single-engine performance in all configurations was defined by the end of May. Stall characteristics, including dynamic stalls, have been explored; engine and auxiliary-power-unit (APU) air-start envelopes expanded and to date, there have been no major surprises.
Stall testing has identified the need for an artificial stall warning (stick shaker) and Danuwinata expects that the aircraft will probably also need a stick pusher for stall prevention. The first prototype's performance, stability and control trials will be finished before the Indonesian air show, followed by systems testing, putting the flight-test programme on schedule. Aircraft numbers two, three and four, all -100 70-passenger versions, will be the certification airframes. Number two, to be flown in September, is destined to develop flutter clearance for the full flight envelope, thence for certification of performance and stability/control throughout the low- to mid-speed and high-speed flight envelopes to certification limits. Systems-certification work will start on number three, and number four will follow for certification of the cockpit and interior, and functionality and reliability flying. Three and four will then be configured as series-production aircraft. The entire 4,500h certification programme is scheduled to be completed by the end of 1997.

FLY-BY-WIRE CONTROLS
The world's first regional turboprop airliner to be wholly controlled by a fly-by-wire (FBW) flight-control system, IPTN stresses that the N250 is not a CN235 derivative and has no structural or component commonality with that type.
Compared to the original 50-seat planned prototype, the 70-seat N250-100 incorporates a 1.5m fuselage length-extension plug, a lowered wing with reduced drag, and an extended constant-section fuselage with a circular cross-section in the aft fuselage. The first prototype has an elliptical cross-section, and the change will reduce structural weight and improve producibility. Production of the 50- and 70-passenger variants is likely to proceed concurrently, but IPTN's US production and marketing partner, American Regional Aircraft Industry is already pressing for a 72-seat version at increased seat pitch, which would call for a further 3m plug in addition to the current serial-production model. The N250's unusually large CG range, from 17% forward to 40% aft, is explained by the anticipation of these stretch derivatives.
The twin Allison AE2100C engines, de-rated to a normal take-off power of 2,400kW (3,270shp) equivalent, drive six-bladed Dowty Rotol R384/6-123-F/8 propellers and offer plenty of growth potential. Two dual-channel full-authority digital engine-controls (FADECs) manage engine and propeller operation in all starting, ground and flight modes. The FADEC provides engine and propeller digital-signal data transmission, status information, monitoring and fault indications to the data concentrator unit for pilot display and for maintenance monitoring. A gearbox-mounted accessory drive provides mounting and power for an AC generator and a hydraulic pump on both engines, and for gearbox-oil pump, propeller pitch-control unit (mounting only) and propeller oil-pump and overspeed governor. Engine build-up is identical for left and right installations. Pneumatic starters on each engine are connected to the pilot-activated pneumatic manifold, and the starting sequence is controlled from initialisation to stabilisation by the FADEC.
The engine-indicating system, consists of torquemeter pick-ups, thermo-couples for measured gas temperature, expressed as inter-turbine temperature, propeller speed and engine-monitoring system.
The fully feathering and reversing composite-construction propellers are 12.5ft (3,810mm) in diameter. The advanced aerodynamic blade design is optimised for the high cruising speeds for which the N250 is intended, and IPTN anticipates that the high wing configuration will provide ample protection from propeller and engine foreign-object damage. The blades are counterweighted, to deliver a safe coarse pitch and rotational speed in the event of loss of system oil pressure or electrical supply. Blades are spray-coated with polyurethane and have a nickel leading-edge guard against ice and erosion damage. An electrically driven feather pump and motor unit provides an emergency source for the primary and secondary feathering system, and a propeller over-speed governor begins to restrict oil flow to the propeller control unit if an over-speed condition (of about 105%) occurs.
The Sunstrand APS-1000 APU supplies pneumatic power for the environmental-control system and engine start. Between firewalls in the extreme aft fuselage, it is mounted on the aft pressure bulkhead. APU start is by an autonomous electric starter-motor powered by the aircraft's batteries.

CARBONFIBRE COMPOSITES
Carbonfibre composites are also used for the radome, nose-gear and main landing-gear doors and fairings, wingtip, elevator tip, vertical-stabiliser tip and wing/fuselage fairings; wing fixed-trailing-edge surface panels; dorsal fin; aft rudder; and tail cone.
The main entrance door will be a 1750 x 780mm type 1 plug at the forward left position, and will be provided with a folding airstair. The 1,397 x 610mm type 1 service doors opposite and at the rear, along with a left side type 3 915 x 610mm rear emergency door, will meet all evacuation requirements. Flight-attendant stations will be forward and aft, and the 8.8m3 main (pressurised) baggage compartment will be behind the passenger cabin, accessible through a 1,114 x 1,150mm external door on the left side. The aft baggage door is a structural, non-plug, type with C-latch locking, and is electrically operated from an external access.
Baggage-door sill height is 1,200mm. Cabin and toilet servicing are provided for on the right fuselage, with fuel truck aft of the right wing for single-point fuelling at up to 450litres/min aft of the right main-landing-gear fairing. There is also, provision for over-wing fuelling. Maximum useable fuel capacity is 4.2t, contained in inboard and outboard tanks in each wing.
All primary and secondary flight-control surfaces are controlled by the full-authority FBW system. Hydraulic actuation of the surfaces is electrically signalled by electrical control units (ECUs) from the pilot's dual-channel control column, control wheel and rudder pedals, which are of conventional layout (provided with artificial feel), and from the flap levers. ECUs are scheduled, with flight parameters for airframe-overstress protection from excessive control loads. For back up, ailerons and elevators have separate mechanical signal paths through a single cable to mechanically controlled hydraulic actuators.
The double-hinged rudder has two FBW-controlled hydraulic actuators, with the upper actuator normally active. Both actuators are powered by the centre hydraulic system, which is independent of the left or right engine-driven hydraulic pumps and, therefore, of engine failure. Failure of an FBW channel to any aileron or elevator surface prompts automatic switching to the manual channel for that surface, without discernible change to control feel. Capt Danuwinata says: "Once, in flight testing, we had a reversion of the aileron system from FBW to mechanical backup due to a power interrupt, and we didn't even notice it from the cockpit. 'Mission control' advised us we were in backup mode."
Although the test aircraft was fitted with a special shut-off valve to allow test-flight de-activation of the FBW system, there is no plan to make this available in production aircraft, as it can be adequately practised in a simulator. Several failure cases have already been evaluated in simulation, and predicted control forces are almost identical with the FBW case, the only difference being that speed scheduling and several other FBW system functions are de-activated.
Flaps and spoiler/ground spoilers are also FBW. The four spoiler panels, which can also be armed to act as landing-activated ground spoilers, operate when airborne in aileron-assist mode at large wheel deflections to tailor roll capability with speed. Nosewheel steering is also FBW-activated, without mechanical reversion. The tiller provides +/- 65 steering either side of neutral, and limited authority of +/- 7 from neutral is provided through the rudder pedals for take-off and landing.

COCKPIT LAYOUT
In terms of modern cockpit layout, there is nothing unusual about the N250, which closely follows modern convention. IPTN selected a horizontally aligned five-screen configuration for its Rockwell-Collins Proline electronic-flight-instrumentation (EFIS) system, with primary flight displays outboard, adjacent multi-function displays (MFDs) inboard, and engine-indicating and crew-alerting system (EICAS) centrally mounted. Lighting controls are at the outboard extremities of the main panel, with clock and MFD mode switches inboard and adjacent to the MFDs. Standby attitude indicator, altimeter and airspeed indicators are to the right of the captain's MFD, symmetrically opposite landing-gear selector and trim indicators. The main panel slopes 25 up from the vertical. On the glare shield are the automatic flight-control system and EFIS control panels, with master warning and caution lights outboard above the MFDs.
A single power-lever module, within comfortable reach of both pilots, is centrally mounted on the centre console, which also contains all avionics controls, and the control panels for the EICAS, ground-spoiler/anti-skid system, internal lighting, flap and elevator trim and aileron/rudder trim, as well as the EFIS source panel, and power-management unit. There is ample space on the centre console for dual flight-management systems.
Considerable thought has been applied to limiting clutter on the compact overhead panel, with all items well forward to obviate reaching back. System design is managed to minimise the need to push buttons, and largely automated, so that lighted captions on the push button will indicate the abnormal condition, an unlit button indicating normality.
Control-column-mounted switches for aileron and elevator trim will be standard on production models, but were absent on the certification aircraft. The conventional trim switches at the aft extent of the centre console were difficult for a first-timer to locate.
The pneumatic system, routed entirely outside the pressure hull, controls and distributes bleed air to the environmental-control system; engine-starting system; aerofoil de-icing system; and cabin-pressurisation control system. IPTN believes that it is well covered against any tightened US Federal Aviation Administration requirement, with 15% boot coverage and a growth capability, if required, because of the aft location of the front spar.
Some autopilot testing has been carried out and, with Rockwell-Collins, IPTN has optimised the gain settings on the autopilot logic. Danuwinata says: "We came up with a satisfactory solution, but this has been done on a special test rack installed in the aeroplane, where we could change the gains according to the test results. Now, the new gains will be implemented directly in the flight-control computer software, and we expect to have the new computer in within a month."
Extended-range twin-engined operations, has not been a consideration in the design, because of the medium- and short-haul nature of the typical mission. The aerodynamic concept of the N250 is based on the concept that the aircraft should be powered by high thrust for high-speed flight, without surrendering short take-off and landing capability. The same requirements dictated the use of the double-hinged rudder for engine-out capability at high thrust and low speed. Span of the double-slotted flaps is 80%. A noticeable external feature is a visibly nose-down thrust line, which locates it close to the vertical centre of gravity, the outcome being relatively moderate elevator-trim changes, with thrust variations.***

Master Chief
05-14-2008, 03:43 AM
[quote=holyman;3243287]is this a pindad made, wow cool...is it genuine pindad creation or just just buying licensed like FN to SS 1?:oops:
quote]

If you see the detail, the receiver obviously looks much similar with SS1/SS2/FN FNC, including pistol grip, trigger & even the foldable stock. Yes, it's designed & built by Pindad, based on the existing SS1/SS2/FNC blue print.

A note here; FN did not or do not make a conventional SMG, instead their FN P90 is a revolutionary in small arms technology.

p412u
05-14-2008, 09:41 AM
hi there, i'm still nub here.
i hear tni will received more sukhoi this year, coz tni is building a new air plane hangar in lanud hasanudin for the next sukhois!! any update news how many sukhoi will arrived?

holyman
05-14-2008, 02:46 PM
http://www.kompasimages.com/images.php?path=foto/20081/24/2069p.JPG
TNI assault gun(PDW)!! PINDAD MADE.

hihihi its weird huh

StukaJr
05-14-2008, 02:49 PM
^^ straight out of RoboCop

Ominae
05-14-2008, 08:07 PM
http://www.kompasimages.com/images.php?path=foto/20081/24/2069p.JPG
TNI assault gun(PDW)!! PINDAD MADE.

hihihi its weird huh

Does this baby have a name? XP

Kopassus
05-15-2008, 12:37 AM
http://www.kompasimages.com/images.php?path=foto/20081/24/2069p.JPG
TNI assault gun(PDW)!! PINDAD MADE.

hihihi its weird huh
looks really good....

Kopassus
05-15-2008, 12:41 AM
Mmm..... P2s...
Panhard VBL.....


Here's a picture of one of our F28.
http://85.17.151.25/247100001-247150000/247112101-247112200/247112105_5_R4MW.jpeg

4_tune
05-15-2008, 03:41 AM
lol we can discuss this in the discussion page, this is photo only pages.

do we even have one? hahaha

holyman
05-15-2008, 04:41 AM
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/jalesveva-jayamahe-24.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/jalesveva-jayamahe-14.jpg

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/jalesveva-jayamahe-05.jpg

KOPASKA new CAMO!!

forgeet about a new camo i want a see a new BMT or TANKS!!

holyman
05-15-2008, 04:44 AM
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn206/fcaesarn/badger.jpg

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn206/fcaesarn/50678139.jpg

OLD SCHOOL INDONESIA BOMBER :)

i miss those days!!! :o

makavelli
05-15-2008, 07:52 AM
i supposed its a pindad made!! my bad if this pic was repost





enjoy guys, peace to all :)

its left hand drive...
must be French made..

Master Chief
05-15-2008, 08:30 AM
Panhard VBL.....



Panhard BVL & PT SSE P2; these two look like cousins. Are they related ?

Master Chief
05-16-2008, 10:29 AM
Hmmmm... I'm sure these pictures taken in Aceh during military operation.

Not really. From the pictures, it may be in Poso, Ambon, Sambas or anywhere in Java during an exercise.

Master Chief
05-16-2008, 10:36 AM
http://www.kompasimages.com/images.php?path=foto/20081/24/2069p.JPG
TNI assault gun(PDW)!! PINDAD MADE.

hihihi its weird huh

Weird indeed.
This kind of long-barrel pistol exist only in: (1) competition shooting range, (2) Hollywood's movies, e.g. RoboCop. p-)

Nobody will enjoy carrying it to the field (except RoboCop of course).

ZAYYANA
05-16-2008, 10:56 AM
Not really. From the pictures, it may be in Poso, Ambon, Sambas or anywhere in Java during an exercise.

Seems you are right... they are on exercise, you can see from a sign on their right hand and also they are not using body armor, meanwhile in Aceh all of them used it.

gamez99
05-16-2008, 11:01 AM
this is picture of RPP,

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/gamez_ryant/rppmca7.jpg

anyone knows about RPP??

ZAYYANA
05-16-2008, 11:01 AM
Weird indeed.
This kind of long-barrel pistol exist only in: (1) competition shooting range, (2) Hollywood's movies, e.g. RoboCop. p-)

Nobody will enjoy carrying it to the field (except RoboCop of course).

I'm not agree with you... you can compare with Desert Eagle.

any details of this gun and please including the name?

ggk
05-16-2008, 11:17 AM
only counter strike soldier carry desert eagle...in reality its not a soldier favorite weapon.

ggk
05-16-2008, 11:18 AM
my guess that hand gun is for special use ....such as competition

Java Jongen
05-16-2008, 10:41 PM
@Karbol, how you & your community can take the picture in strategic company like pindad? because five years ago when I was High school, we visited Dirgantara Indonesia, but we can't take the pics there because the rule is clear, cammera and cellphone are forbidden.

Master Chief
05-16-2008, 11:56 PM
@Karbol, how you & your community can take the picture in strategic company like pindad? because five years ago when I was High school, we visited Dirgantara Indonesia, but we can't take the pics there because the rule is clear, cammera and cellphone are forbidden.

You are not allowed to take pictures & videos for the interior of the buildings, doors, windows, stairs, CCTV cameras, power junction box, comm antennas, assembly lines, hitech machineries & other sensitive items.

For the final products, e.g. APS 6x6 in the yard, rifles in the shooting range & planes in hangar, I don't see why it's forbidden, do you ?

Master Chief
05-17-2008, 12:02 AM
[quote=ZAYYANA;3250137]I'm not agree with you... you can compare with Desert Eagle.
quote]

Several factors why Desert Eagle is popular: (1) rare long barrel for pistol, (2) the brand name is so commercial, so "Hollywood", (3) Israeli made, (4) Counter Strike game.:)

But I haven't seen any soldiers carrying it in the field, have you ?

karbol
05-17-2008, 12:07 AM
Thanks Karbol.

The RPP initially was not a Pindad's child. The real mother was the Maintenance dept of the Army (Bengpuspal AD) & UI university in Jakarta. But I'm glad it is shifted to Pindad & it looks more handsome than the APR1-V1. I'm not sure whether the monocoque term has a similar meaning with the one in the automotive industry or not.

Judging from the picture, the APS-3 Amphibi is the 4x4 APS.

actually, the RPP was set up for carrying Mistral missile, as an implemantation the MOU between Pindad and MBDA few years ago... and the APS-3 Amphibi is Amphibious version of APS-3 6X6... but now on still on research...

Java Jongen
05-17-2008, 12:23 AM
You are not allowed to take pictures & videos for the interior of the buildings, doors, windows, stairs, CCTV cameras, power junction box, comm antennas, assembly lines, hitech machineries & other sensitive items.

For the final products, e.g. APS 6x6 in the yard, rifles in the shooting range & planes in hangar, I don't see why it's forbidden, do you ?

yes, but when we're asking the guard they just said "whatever inside, are national secret, so no cammeras or cellphone" (benar-benar tidak ramah, tapi saat itu CN-235 pesanan malaysia dalam perakitan):-(
but we can take the pics of front yard and runways (without planes, of course)

karbol
05-17-2008, 12:31 AM
yes, but when we're asking the guard they just said "whatever inside, are national secret, so no cammeras or cellphone" (benar-benar tidak ramah, tapi saat itu CN-235 pesanan malaysia dalam perakitan):-(
but we can take the pics of front yard and runways (without planes, of course)

well when i visit PINDAD and PT.DI there was no security guard:)... but there is a sign "DILARANG MEMOTRET! (no taking pics)"... but i dont care..:):)... but i do not taking any picture when i get in to the R&D division...

Master Chief
05-17-2008, 12:36 AM
actually, the RPP was set up for carrying Mistral missile, as an implemantation the MOU between Pindad and MBDA few years ago... and the APS-3 Amphibi is Amphibious version of APS-3 6X6... but now on still on research...

I think it should be written as "The RPP was designed & built to meet the Armed forces' demand of light tactical vehicles. One of the varians will be a platform of mobile SAM system such as Mistral."

From your picture, the APS-3 Amphibi is a 4x4.